UK spy chief: 1600 suspects being watched, 30 active plots monitored as “priority one”

Tiny Minority of Extremists Update. “Britain’s spy chief warns of terrorist plots” from Reuters:

LONDON (Reuters) – Britain’s intelligence agency head was quoted on Friday as saying up to about 30 major terrorist plots were being planned in the country and that future threats could involve chemicals and nuclear technology.

Eliza Manningham-Buller, director general of MI5, said young British Muslims were being groomed to become suicide bombers and that her agents were tracking some 1,600 suspects, most of whom were British-born and linked to al Qaeda.

“We are aware of numerous plots to kill people and damage our economy. What do I mean by numerous? Five? Ten? No, nearer 30 … that we know of,” Manningham-Buller said in a speech in London on Thursday that was reported by British media.

She was quoted as saying the plots were “priority one” cases.

[…]

“My officers and the police are working to contend with some 200 groupings or networks, totaling over 1,600 identified individuals who are actively engaged in plotting or facilitating terrorist acts here and overseas,” she said.

Manningham-Buller said the number of cases being pursued by security services had risen by 80 percent since January.

“Today we see the use of home-made improvised explosive devices. Tomorrow’s threat may — and I suggest will — include the use of chemicals, bacteriological agents, radioactive materials and even nuclear technology,” she said.

[…]

Manningham-Buller said it was clear from so-called “martrydom” videos that suicide bombers were motivated in part by “their interpretation as anti-Muslim of UK foreign policy, in particular the UK’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

As well as at least 95 other things.

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Comments

  1. says

    “her agents were tracking some 1,600 suspects, most of whom were British-born and linked to al Qaeda.”
    — from the article above

    To track one person round-the-clock requires not just one other person, but a whole team of peple for round-the-clock surveillance. For the British to properly tack “some 1,600 suspects” enjoying life in a free society, and exploiting that free society’s freedoms (and the consequent constraints on the police) to the fullest, would take 5,000 agents or possibly more. Let’s assume that each agent costs the state $60,000 per annum. That is $300 million dollars just for that tracking of individuals known to the authorities. What about the vast sums incurred to monitor all the mosques, and all the Muslim communities — beyond those 1,600 individuals? What about the costs assoricated with guarding churches, synagoguges, Hindu temples, airports, trains and train stations, every train and every station on the London Underground, bus stations, taxi terminals, government office buildings, museums, concert halls, and all the sites on the list of the National Trust? What about the general unsettlement — have you taken the London Underground recently? does it feel the same as it did, say, five years ago, or ten? What about travel in planes to and from England — just the same, or quite different?

    I will repeat what I keep putting up here, which no one in Western Europe can truthfully take issue with, even if one might disagree with the prescriptions I offer:

    The large-scale presence of Muslims in the countries of Western Europe has led to a sitatuion, for the indigenous Infidels and for other, non-Muslim immigrants, to a situation that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than it would be without such a large-scale presence.

    Try to deny the truth of that observation. Try.

  2. says

    The earlier Romans had a political system for use in time of crisis. A special council met and nominated a man for a six-month period of Dictatorship. The nomination was sent to the Senate for a positive recommendation. If a positive recommendation was given, the Dictator was approved by a vote of the people’s assembly. He was given the absolute power of a King for the six-month period, after which his office disappeared.

  3. says

    “The large-scale presence of Muslims in the countries of Western Europe has led to a sitatuion, for the indigenous Infidels and for other, non-Muslim immigrants, to a situation that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than it would be without such a large-scale presence.”

    That says it all Hugh. Western Countries are very very slow learners though.

  4. says

    At some stage there is going to have to be a second expulsion of the Moors in this country. Europe should sort itself out so that all Muslims are swiftly deported and not allowed back in, under any circumstances. I only hope too many UK citizens don’t have to die before the inevitability of this is realised.

  5. says

    Western Countries are very very slow learners though.

    Posted by: cathkins

    Watch out here for the racist abusive troll Eisenhund! This comment would not be allowed here, unless you have well-established your identity by nationality, colour, religion and so on. What he has remarked on the post on Unani doctors is a slur against American values. Once these values of free and fair intellectual exchange by like-minded persons are compromised by bullies, it is the end of the free world, with America becoming trapped in a frozen Cold War mentality long past its Use Before date, in deep isolation and with no allies it can trust.

  6. says

    Given that it is impossible to punish a suicide bomber and given that the muslim community is at best half-hearted about dealing with the killers among them, should we not consider punishments that will impact on the families of the terrorists? For example, the family network of each bomber should be given the choice of moving to a muslim country or being detained indefinitely in a prison camp. Given that the family networks are very extensive, this would enable us to remove quite a few of them.

  7. says

    Other people have commented here about the huge cost of surveillance also security.Obviously the Jihadists are doing their best to bankrupt the Economy.Question is how long will followers of ‘great & noble Faith of Islam’ be considered worth keeping in countries they are intending to destroy? My answer is-Not long.But ‘rivers of blood’ will certainly flow until they are removed.

  8. says

    Hugh:
    “The large-scale presence of Muslims…. that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than it would be without such a large-scale presence”.

    Very true.Psychologically ravaging.To borrow you own words, “slow stillcide”,if I recall right.

  9. says

    The BBC News article on this topic has a sidebar asking readers to comment on how serious they think the terrorist threat is (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6135000.stm), and what is most notable is the almost-unanimous complacency of the posters. Several see the government’s surveillance as threatening their own freedom; others blame the terrorist threat on the UK’s participation in the Iraq war. My first reaction was that these are, after all, readers of the BBC News and therefore not necessarily typical of Britons; but then I recalled that the Conservative Party is at least as dhimmified as the Labour Party is.

  10. says

    Hugh: MI5 only employs 2,800 staff but their total annual budget has been set at £1.553 billion (just under $3bn) for 2007/08.

  11. says

    I was watching the inane SKY news this morning about this (yes, that’s all I have to do with my time).

    The amount of handwringing and wondering what to do was laughable. The interviewer asked a so called expert (Experts of Nothing, as we call them in our house) if Islam had been hijacked? Oh no, he says, the Imams and Clerics can’t help it if a few decide to get radicalised!

    Well, it’s just a small example of how the people with influence are not prepared to get real.

    And I think that a lot of this security and anti-terrorism activity is as much to do with protecting the failed policy of multi-culturalism as it is to protect innocent lives.

    Why else would we have this continued schizophrenia where the problem is never properly identified, but there is such unprecedented activity by the security services at the same time.

    Would there be rivers of blood if there were large scale Jihadist atrocities in this country? Would consequent internment be more for the safety of the blessed Muslims than it would be for ours?

    Possibly. I really think that the powers that be are concerned that their political philosophy – the one that has ruined this country – could be under threat by the repurcussions of Islamic Jihad – which they imported themselves.

    Because if the the powers that be were serious, they would be working to create a nationalised version of Islam that believed in a British connection. If they were serious, they would see that is someone desperately needed religion, then better it be a peaceful one. A program of large scale conversion to Christianity or even Hinduism/Seikhism would be started. There are other answers to deportation or killing, but nothing is politically correct, and so therefore there is no action that is acceptable.

    However, what we have is a powder keg of the liberal leftist elites own making, and their solution is to sit on it (they never cared about how much tax we poor buggers have to pay – wastage keeps the liberal leftist elite in power). So they’ll just sit on it, as best they can…….

  12. says

    The only solution I see, is, deport, detain, and ban islam.

    How many more people have to die before the leaders realize it’s ISLAM that’s the culprit? Get the entire mosque. If they weren’t born there, deport. If they were, put them in the crossbar hotel. And I agree with Malta…the entire family. They are probably all state supported anyway…they’ll just be changing addresses.

    Ban the cult named islam.

  13. says

    From these numbers it is obvious that the muslim minority , mainly Pakistani muslims, in the uk is waging an undeclared war on the british people who allowed them to seetle on the once proud island.
    It is impossible to monitor an estimated number of between 1 1/2 to 2 million people and it is only luck and the incompetence of the would be terrorists that have allowed the prevention of further outrages.
    This is a situation that cannot be tolerated and seems to me to be quite unique in history – a majority populace tolerates a minority intent on killing it – a quite bizzare manifestation of our post modern/liberal/secular/godless societies.
    In past time the minority would have been delt with expediently!!

  14. says

    Prior to the 2nd world war, Churchill took every opportunity to tell britain and the west about the perils of nazi germany. He was villified as a war monger, until being proven absolutely correct!

    Modern day britain, instead of dealing with there obvious immigration fiasco the politically correct establishment led by the BBC are self destructing british society. They arrest the leader of the BNP for having the balls to state obvious truths about what is happening to britain, predicting sucide bombers months in advance, now this man (Nick Griffin) awaits his verdict for actually having the balls (free speach)to speak up.

    I’m afraid had the BBC been so left and the upper class, then King and Queen been such appeasers, then Winston Churchill would have sat out the 2nd world war in prison.

    1600 born in britain muslems ready to commit a terror war on the homefront. This is what the PC police can admit, I believe that figure is 20 to 30 times higher or more.

    It has begun, the perfect storm.

    A political upper class supported by multicult news media and upper class police, arresting those politicians with hardline views about obvious internal british problems, whilst, the barbarians have surpassed the gate and live amongst the politically correct masses afraid to stand up and speak up.

    Where this storm blows is anyones guess, but there is no doubt either way, when the storm settles, britain will become Britain again or it will become a major world wide nuclear problem.

  15. says

    ” a perfect storm ” indeed and the british will reap the whirlwind – they deserve nothing less – a coutry that for years has been so smug with their image as a “tolerant” society – so quick to denigrate the USA while what they really have become is degenerate cowards unable to stand up for their own values and society when faced with a bunch of peasants out of the 7th century following a so obvious insane sect.
    how it plays out will indeed be anyones guess – I am just glad I left the god-forsaken island with my familly some time ago – rule britania – what a fuckin joke!!

  16. says

    “At some stage there is going to have to be a second expulsion of the Moors in this country.”

    wallyUK – I just hope they don’t all come to Canada. I can see the headlines now: “Canada opens its arms to refugees”.

  17. says

    “almost-unanimous complacency of the posters”
    Frieda thanks for the link – I checked it out and the comments are truly depressing – but these comments are being filtered by the BBC so you can guess which ones are getting through – given the impartiality of the BBC – as it is mostly controlled by our ´stani friends and gay lefties – what a state!

  18. says

    If the good people of Britain left after the muslims destroyed it, I’m sure the muslims would feel right at home. They love the cesspool. They love squalor. And they would live like the rest of the middle east.

    But, after they crap in their bed…who will support them? Would they become like the Pali’s, begging for support?

    The people who follow islam and it’s clerics need to grow a brain. They don’t see beyond their nose. If it weren’t for the fact they’re so violent and barbaric they would be hilarious.

  19. says

    FOR FEAR OF THE LABEL “RACIST”,
    EVIL AND MURDER IS ENABLED

    Alistair McConnachie writes: The torture and race-murder of 15 year old Glasgow teenager Kriss Donald on 16 March 2004, was one of the most horrific crimes ever to have occured in mainland Britain, in living memory. However, unless you live in Glasgow you have probably never even heard of Kriss Donald.

    The national UK media have kept it quiet because it doesn’t “fit” into their framework where the only race attacks we are ever meant to hear about and know about are white-on-black.

    At the same time, Strathclyde Police have come under the spotlight for their failure to police the Asian gangs in Pollokshields properly because of an unprofessional fear of being called “racist”.

    Here a former Chief Inspector of Strathclyde Police helps to explain what has gone wrong.

    WHY POLICE ARE AFRAID TO TACKLE ASIAN CRIME
    Political correctness protects young ethnic offenders
    by Mike Liddell
    Former Strathclyde Police chief inspector
    Scottish Daily Mail
    Friday, November 19, 2004, p. 14

    IT was a crime of breathtaking callousness and depravity that shocked all Scotland. The murder of Kriss Donald was an act of brutality more readily associated with the likes of Bogota or Baghdad.

    Yet this awful crime was played out in the leafy suburb of Pollokshields in Glasgow – and has left its residents searching for some kind of explanation.

    As a former senior police officer in Strathclyde with 30 years’ experience, I believe the answer is clear – though, for many, it will prove unpalatable.

    In my view, crime within Glasgow’s Asian community has been allowed to grow unfettered for years. Why? Because the police have been afraid to fight it in case they are accused of racism.

    It was this basic failure to act that created the conditions which, at least in part, allowed the murder of Kriss Donald to happen.

    This inactivity and its deadly consequences stemmed not from the attitude of officers on the street, but from the craven approach of their bosses to race-relations. For years now, a ‘softly, softly’ attitude towards crime in the ethnic community has prevailed – a disastrous policy born of the excessive interference of politicians.

    The simple truth for senior officers is that they are not going to win that longed-for promotion or the coveted knighthood if they upset the local politicians who control the police boards.

    So the attitude among Scotland’s police hierarchy is: ‘Be careful not to upset the ethnic community – they may start complaining.’

    What was striking about the Kriss Donald murder was the confidence his attackers, Daanish Zahid and Zahid Mohammed, displayed as they trawled the streets looking for their victim.

    We heard at the trial of a group of youths involved in the search, brawls in the street and a Mercedes being driven around the city with the victim aboard.

    How is this possible?

    Educated
    Clearly, the Asian community is no less law-abiding than any other part of society. But on the South Side of Glasgow there is a significant group of young Asian men, mostly between 15 and 30, who are simply out of control. They believe they are beyond the law.

    They are for the most part well-educated and well-off: driving around in a luxury foreign car is very much their style, but they receive no parental discipline and recognise no authority.

    They are heavily involved in drug-dealing and crimes such as reset and fraud; some groups are well-organised, members travel extensively and have connections abroad.

    Internal disputes and violence are common – and a cricket bat is often the weapon of choice.

    They are very aware the police are reluctant to challenge them in anything less than the most extreme circumstances for fear of being branded as racist.

    Make no mistake: they use the race card without mercy and in today’s climate even an unsubstantiated complaint can damage an officer’s career.

    I was a chief inspector in Govan and my area of responsibility bordered Pollokshields.

    Disturbed by rumours of young men being seriously assaulted and failing to report the crime, I set up a small plain clothes team to find out what was happening. It soon became apparent something was going on in the Asian community that the police knew nothing about.

    It seemed the focus of activity was in Pollokshields and the intelligence-gathering group expanded to include officers from that area.

    The extent of the involvement of some Asian youths in serious criminal activity was revealed. But in spite of the evidence, no serious effort was made to take action against them because senior officers decided to do nothing about it.

    Police in Strathclyde are no strangers to being let down by their commanders when it comes to tough decisions involving the Asian community.

    In 2001, South Side residents were dismayed to learn of the closure of a local swimming pool. A peaceful demonstration was hijacked by local youths many of them Asian.

    Attacked
    Police officers were refused permission to defend themselves when they were attacked

    by this group. They were ordered to stand in line while the youths were given free licence to bombard them with stones, rotten fruit and plastic bags full of urine.

    A number of officers were injured, at least one seriously. Few arrests were made.

    I spoke to a number of officers afterwards and most believed their commanders had failed in their duty to protect them because they feared a political backlash that would damage their careers.

    This attitude has been fuelled partly, by Scotland’s burgeoning race relations industry and by a climate of intense political correctness. Barely a week goes by now without a new report on some aspect of race relations.

    Many of our institutions, primarily the police, have been regularly criticised. But the response from police chiefs has been to try to avoid criticism by turning a blind eye to ethnic crime. This growing unwillingness to tackle such crime has meant that the public are increasingly getting a raw deal.

    Scottish Executive research has discovered police officers are failing to use their powers to prevent and detect crime committed by members of the black and ethnic community.

    I know from my own experience that a very high percentage of detentions or arrests of black and ethnic youths results in complaints of racial bias.

    While I was a chief inspector in Glasgow’s South Side, I monitored crimes and arrests every day. I knew when I saw a black or ethnic name that a complaint against the police would almost inevitably follow.

    In my area, the detection rate for all crime was 45 per cent. For crimes reported as racially motivated, it was at least 90 per cent. The difference reflects the fact that a lot more effort goes into dealing with crimes reported as racially motivated.

    They are monitored more scrupulously and local commanders are under more pressure to get results for that type of crime.

    Exploited
    This would not be a concern but for the fact that the definition of a racially motivated crime is so wide that almost every crime against the ethnic community can fall within it. Quite naturally, this situation is exploited by those who would benefit from it.

    The police service in Scotland is not institutionally racist – it is institutionally institutional.

    While it nominally serves the community, the real masters, as always, are the people in power and those who influence them.

    The Asian community, like the rest of the country, is utterly appalled and outraged by Kriss Donald’s murder.

    But I believe his violent death was a result of the political correctness that has gripped the police service in Scotland for years.

    Perhaps it is time, at last, for senior officers to forget about their gongs and promotions and finally protect the public – the job they were sworn to do.

    More

    http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/pcplod.html

  20. says

    What sickens me is howthe media cannot speak out fully,In the above articles they are blaming Asians.

    PLEASE REMEMBER NOT ALL ASIANS ARE MOSLEM

  21. says

    1,600 suspects???…Should equal 1,600 deportations!….but when the Prince of Wales dresses up in Islamic garb, the chances of any deporation happening of these scum is very slim…..I hope MI5 won’t be deterred from their duties as a result of touchy feely PC BS!…..

  22. says

    When will the doors be finally closed to these bastards whose sole goal is to cause mayhem? I think it will take some sort of disaster before something’s done and it will probably be violent because average people are getting sick of putting up with all this crap. No government is willing to shut the damn doors and yet these “leaders” expect everyone in their nations to act like sheep with all these wolves skulking about. When ordinary people take to the streets violently these so-called leaders better run and hide because they’ll get theirs too for betraying their various countries. Enough is enough already.

  23. says

    Dear Senator Ensign;

    Congratulations on your re-election and new position in the Senate. We were on the same Southwest flight from Las Vegas to Reno some time back. It made me feel good to know that my Senator flies coach.

    I share your position on immigration but the realities do not seem to be in our favor. Please consider my request that whatever happens, some mechanism is included to limit Muslim numbers. I’m sure that most are good people, but some aren’t and have a far different American dream than we share.

    Very Respectfully;

    add your own…

  24. says

    May Kriss Donald be with God and condolences to his parents and relatives.

    How could they spell more explicitly, as the report reveals who the terrorizers are? Shiva, pc media in India always writes “people of a particular community”. Cryptic or eloquent? Fear of pc afflicted minds also equally palpable.

  25. says

    So the British are “tracking some 1,600 suspects, most of whom were British-born”.

    In what sense is the situation there anything other than an out-and-out domestic revolutionary insurgency?

    I doubt the Provisional IRA ever had more – and probably had fewer – than 1,600 active combatants at any moment. Yet they tied down large forces (regular army units not just police), wrought tremendous death and destruction and still won’t disarm now that they’re openly in the political process.

    Two years ago, correctly or not, the US Army said they were engaged with about 2,000 active Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. And that requires an international expeditionary force to attempt containment as the Taliban “swim” through the local population not unlike the homegrown British jihadis do.

    The U.S. “War on Terror”, the British “crime” problem, the French “disaffected youth” problem and the Israeli “occupation” problem. Seems like the first thing needed is some truth telling about the name of this war.

  26. says

    The Muslim that has just been given a life sentence in England for plotting I don’t what, will cost the British taxpayer ₤4,100,000 pounds. This would have paid for 500 spitfires during the last war. If the same was to happen to the 1,600 it would cost the taxpayer 6 and a half billion pounds expect fines for dropping litter to double from ₤80 to ₤200 and as for the pension you have supposedly
    built up forget it.

  27. says

    If I were Japanese or from any part of the Far East I know I’d be highly insulted that Muslims are being called Asians.

    I say Far East because that seems to be the main perception of an Asian in the West even though the Middle East is a part of Asia as well.

  28. says

    Just like his buddy Moussaoui who is eating, sleeping and shitting at the American taxpayer’s expense.
    (Of course, the French would like to have him back so that they can turn him loose on the sreets of Paris)

    I’d love to send Mess-owie to France if they promised to stick him in Devil’s Island for life. We could even send the French some money to restore the place to its “glory days”. But then who can trust the French these days when they almost shoot at the Israelis?

  29. says

    The whole West is committing suicide by leaving the doors wide open in the face of such stats. Good thing these people have a high infant mortality rate-otherwise the Muslims would outnumber all of the infidels in the entire world in a short time. Sounds terrible, but then again, Islam is terrible and the truth hurts.

  30. says

    -pagandkapitat,

    What’s the matter, need your diaper changed? Someone calls you on your America bashing and you don’t like it? Tough.

    Pretty rich you complaining about someting I say being a slur against American values when all you ever do is use America as an excuse for India sitting back and not helping anyone but itself.

    Calling me a racist? Sounds like a typical tactic of a mohammedan. If you’re going to level such a charge, prove it or shut the hell up.

    BTW-You’ve not been posting here long enough to be calling me a troll you petulant little shit. A word of warning as well. You do not want to go to war with me. I’ve taken down opponents far smarter and better equipped than a childish little worm like you.

  31. says

    americaningermany-

    That figures. Once again the West steps in and saves the enemy from the jaws of victory. Islam would be dead and buried already if it wasn’t for the West always bailing it out.

    Good thing I censor myself pretty well or else I’d be on the banned list. Just keep on telling it like it is. Anyone with half a brain can recognize the truth.

  32. says

    -americaningermany,

    Well of course you and I are bigotNaziracistKKKonsevatives. After all, when you go against the common sense maxim “Whatever we might have done or not done, it’s still America’s fault” how could you be anything else?

    I just like jerking this little sophist putz’s chain, and watching him spin like a toy top. He thinks I’m racist because I countered his US-bashing with questioning Indian (government, of course) activity, or lack thereof, against international jihadist/mohammedan activity. He’s not been around long enough to know that I get along just fine with posters like Crows&Cows and arjun.sevak because they properly focus on the real threat rather than blame America for Cold War politics that didn’t leave India clean either.

  33. says

    -americaningermany,

    I can’t really say anything about how you and protectalbion interact. It seems on one level to be a personality conflict. Most of the time he seems to stick to the issue at hand. At the same time, I can’t fault you for standing up for yourself when someone says something personal to which you take offence.

    Nariz, I’ve learned not to take personally what he says. He and I, after a few exchanges months ago, seem to have come to an unspoken agreement to lay off each other. While I don’t care for the way he throws epithets at those posters with whom he disagrees, it seems to me that the way he posts and doesn’t stick around to argue means that he just wants to get his opinion out there rather than engage in a cybernetic gunbattle. Even when he mentions a poster by name, I think that he’s using that person to represent something he doesn’t like rather than personally attacking that individual. For the most part (in fact, I can’t think of any contrary cases), he presents his opinions as his own, rather than as some intellectualized constant of the universe. All in all, most of what he says is, for me, pretty much over the top, so I usually don’t worry about it if he says something I don’t like. His style does get your attention though, doesn’t it? Just like with protectalbion, I really can’t say how I think you should respond. If it counts for anything, I always enjoy reading your contributions. All the academic information that such a huge number of JWers present on this site is useful and, if nothing else, compels me to read and research even more than I already do, but people such as yourself who write unabashed, non-PC, common sense observations and opinions keep the site refreshing and well rounded.

  34. says

    “Other people have commented here about the huge cost of surveillance also security.Obviously the Jihadists are doing their best to bankrupt the Economy.Question is how long will followers of ‘great & noble Faith of Islam’ be considered worth keeping in countries they are intending to destroy? My answer is-Not long.But ‘rivers of blood’ will certainly flow until they are removed.

    Posted by: Morgane”
    ___
    And while they are being removed.
    It is pretty obvious to the normal mind that Islam and Western values are completely incompatible with each other. So it begs the question: WTF are they doing in a Western country in the first place? Obviously they hate us, our way of life, everything about us. There has to be a reason why they are here…..

  35. says

    -americaningermany, (you’re welcome)

    Heh..

    I have a little trick when reading what Nariz writes. I mentally delete whatever personal nouns he uses and read around them. That makes it easier to not get personally offended and to judge the content rather than the presentation.

    Aggressive hyperbole doesn’t necessarily negate whatever kernals of truth he might put forth.

  36. says

    “protectalbion attacks me every chance he gets and has called me a bigot and accused me of wanting to start “race riots” for saying that muslims should go ahead and riot and get it over with.

    Posted by: americaningermany”
    ___
    I agree with your sentiments. It will come to fruition in the next two years in a major way in a EurAbian country. It will shock the masses to have homegrowners homiciding their fellow citizens -all innocent civilians. It is then that the Inquistion of 2008 will occur in earnest. This time there needs to be a complete banning of the Islamic practice on Western soil. The problem is what to do with these people who were born locally. The immigrants can be sent back and if the country of origin does not take them they can be dropped off at the border and make their way from there.
    Our CIVILITY towards these miscreants is going to kill us in the end. We need a good old fashioned bloodletting and get it over with while we still have a chance of winning.

  37. says

    It is pretty obvious to the normal mind that Islam and Western values are completely incompatible with each other. So it begs the question: WTF are they doing in a Western country in the first place? Obviously they hate us, our way of life, everything about us. There has to be a reason why they are here…..
    -HardBody at November 10, 2006 03:26 PM

    Why not? How many of them are being beaten and/or killed in our streets? Kidnapped? Beheaded?
    Free room and board, medical care, job placement (for those who actually want to work).
    They can say and do damned well whatever they want and the laws protect them, even if their actions are seditious and destructive to their host countries. They get to benefit from the work of all previous and present Infidel generations without contributing themselves.
    Why does a tapeworm infest an intestine? The body doesn’t really want it there, but doesn’t do much to get rid of it. At the same time, the nematode gets a warm place to live, free food, and protection. A helluva lot better deal than living in the dirt, vulnerable to predators.
    A better question is; why don’t all mohammedans want to live here?

  38. says

    Eisenhund – aka Iron Dog…

    Are you the fellow who sometimes mentions ‘the berserker strain’ that rests dormant in the Germanic peoples?

    I am germanic in origin with some crazed, alcoholic Irish bastard thrown in for good measure… and I can tell you more than once my wife and other people who know me well can attest to certain glimpses of the berserker that lies beneath.

    May the real god help these poor bastards when they cross the line. The trouble is they believe their own propoganda, like all these types have done through history. They fail to understand that a berserker point does exist. Those of us in free countries can’t really say where it is, we have trouble articulating it and even acknowledging it because we try to supress it. But the day will come when the True Believers will find that point. It does exist.

  39. says

    -A_Plague_on_Both_Houses,

    No, I’m not him. I just use the name because I like the meaning and how it sounds 😉

    Actually, I’m half Irish and half Scottish. About as Celtic as one can get. My ancestors go as far back as the pre-Scot Cruithne, the people who convinced the Romans that Caledonia wasn’t worth the effort and the Vikings that continued raiding of the Kingdom of Alba cost more than the value of whatever they could take.

    Just as with others rediscovering their “pre-enlightened” cultures, I have no problem with my ancestors’ ways of doing things and am more than happy to defend them, and am, in fact, quite proud of them. I don’t know about how those of Germanic stock approach the issue, but Celts have always been more than a little resistant about outsiders telling them how to do things, especially in their own lands. For now, it seems that mohammedanism has been flying beneath the radar in traditionally Celtic lands, but just as you say about the Berserker strain, I hope it’s only a matter of time before people reawaken their pride in place and culture and recognize this dangerous desert ideology for what it is and expel it for the threat it unashamedly presents.

    To be clear, though, don’t take this as a rejection of any and all foreign cultures and an advocacy of racial and cultural purity. As far as I see, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Confucians, Jews, Wiccans, Atheists, etc. don’t seem to have a problem moving anywhere in the world and respecting the native cultures. I don’t really care what anyone believes as long as they don’t arrogantly try to move into my house and tell me how to arrange the furniture and what to make for dinner. Everyone else but mohammedans seem to understand that if you move to someone else’s country, it’s incumbent on you to fit in, not for the host society to change to make you more comfortable. I wouldn’t move to Japan and expect everyone I meet to speak to me in English or allow me to leave my shoes on and tramp mud into their homes. I wouldn’t move to Arabia and expect to erect a church or, if I were a woman, run around in shorts and a halter-top. If I choose to move to your country, I’ll respect your customs. If I don’t like your customs, I won’t live there. The mohammedans need to learn this. If they won’t learn it on their own, they will need to be taught.

  40. says

    What is it when the combination of Celtic and Germanic roots come into play?

    Well, I’d like to think it’s ‘the best of all peoples’ but unfortuately Mohammed put that title on the Arabs about 1386 years before I came around…

    Americaningermany … we’re stubborn. Never give up. You gotta fight for your right to look good in the miniskirt…

    Fight for the bier garten
    fight for oktoberfest
    fight for maifest
    fight for all the good things in life.

    Take away good looking women, beer, music, dancing, laughing in public and what’s left? If the German people understand it’s the end of bier as we know it all hell will break loose. :-)

  41. says

    -americaningermany and A_Plague_on_Both_Houses,

    Y’all should like this. “Kung fu fighter” predicting the fall of the US because of its “no longer competitive” economy and the ascent of China in a post featuring such lovely gems as “European devils” and “Japs“. His kung fu seems to be deteriorating from the effects of his arrogance and ego.

  42. says

    Hmmmmm…I’ve invested a lot of thought, and time into this, and personally, I believe there is no way that Islam will ever be able to mix with Western Democracy and freedom. I’ve been weighing both sides, reading books, and when I came to the conclusion 3 weeks ago, I weighed it again, and guess what, I have come to the same conclusion again. There is no way we will ever be able to mix, as the moderates simply don’t care enough, because they are not devout enough to care. There is only one solution: deportation of all Islamics. Vote for Vlaams Belang, BNP, whatever right wing party you can get. Because our version of evil and hatred, fascism, is better than their’s, for one reason alone: at least we would be able to listen to music under fascism.

  43. says

    If muslims had been acting like this in the 19th century or the 18th century, then every muslim would have been thrown out of the country by now.

    What is wrong with us, that we have to deal with muslims waging war with us, but when some-one calls Islam a vicious wicked faith, as Nick Griffin did, then he gets arrested and tried?

  44. says

    Back in the day, when you applied to be a part of a sensitive government program, you were asked if you were a Communist or had Communist sympathies. Repeatedly. The questions are probably still on the forms.

    The Communist ideology is far more compatible with the US Constitution than Islam. I guess it was acceptable to define Communism as our enemy because the leaders were white men. The ideology we are treating with kid gloves is in the process of ethnically cleansing Africa. The whole thing is stupid.

    Islam’s rise is the fault of the Western electorate. If there is any justice in the mess, it is that the pain will be spread unevenly. Those of us in the “progressive’, “tolerant’ urban areas will feel it the most when the time comes.

    p.s. I’m a Celt/German mix also, strange. I’ve found it to be a fairly volatile mix throughout life. But let’s not kid ourselves; my wife is a Celt/Russian with some Jew mixed in for spice. Good God.

  45. says

    Eisenhund… I went over to the list of KungFu Fighter’s post and I’m sad to say I’ve thought about some of the trends he weaves together… particularly the trade imbalance with China and the easy credit policy which leaves South East Asian countries holding serious U.S. Treasury and bond debt. But it’s South Korea and Japan who hold the large chunk of it. South Koreans particularly like to buy up bundles of U.S. home mortgage debt.

    So Kung Fu Fighter is feeling pumped up… well, some of the things he says are cause for concern. However, China is not behind all of what he says ( thankfully ) and South Korea and Japan aren’t going to turn on us any time soon.

    But you know what? Part of the problem is the fact that the term long-range planning means “what I am going to do Friday night?” to most Americans. We’re sort sighted, spend nearly everything we bring home in pay and don’t think about the future. All this is going to come crashing down on us some Black Friday if we don’t correct or moderate. The good news is that free markets will self correct, albeit painfully sometimes.

    As far as the arrogant tone and the references to “Japs” and “European devils” he sounds more like a second or third generation immigrant to the United States who’s trying to sound like a Chinese national… I do know that most people in the world will revert to a racist slander if they’re emotional about something. I do know that Chinese nationals are just as racist as the rest of us. They call black folks ‘black devils’ … I’m aware of that.

    China is rising, but the trends in place will not continue unabated or unchecked. Trends never do. People make the mistake of extrapolating the current trends out until they have absurd and unrealistic predictions ( or simply the wrong conclusions )

    The future is not connected to the present by a straight line. That’s why most of the time it’s interesting and surprising.

    Kung Fu Fighter may have some points about the present China ascendency, but don’t think that the rigid government and the pace of growth can exist together forever. It’s artificial now. Things will change, external shocks to the system will come about… look at Japan – it no longer grows at 7 % annually. I don’t think it has since the crash back in 1989 or 1990? Correct me if I’m wrong.

    Anyway China does worry me in the sense that they see themselves as a ‘chosen nation’ and think the pre-Mao culure, which had been brilliant up to the point that they closed their borders and their minds, is superior to Western and free world cultures. This can be a recipe for aggression and disaster.

    So in the end, maybe he has a point or two about the strength of China and a few points on U.S. vulnerabilities… but he needs to acknowledge where the growth engine ‘lives’…. China supplies Wal-Mart with cheap shit to sell. This account for some serious growth in itself.

    China’s growth comes from Most Favored Nation trading status with the United States. People forget this at their peril.

    Hey Kung Fu Fighter – 中国共产党是充满阿斗而美国规则.

  46. says

    -A_Plague_on_Both_Houses,

    I had a similar reaction to yours when I read his post. I was going to respond to him, but had better things to do. Funny you mention Japan, though. I was going to bring that up, myself. Used to be in the eighties, people were running around predicting that Japan was going to take over the world. Kung fu fighter seems to think that there will be no end to China’s growth. For someone who likes to think that because America’s economy has grown as it has, a fall is inevitable, he apparently has difficulty applying this same prediction to the PRC. He has this idea that the Chinese government is smarter than all the rest of us and that their policies, especially those that run counter to US national interests, won’t come around and bite them in the ass.

    In any case, he’s welcome to think what he likes, however divorced from reality and black-and-white his views of economics and geopolitics are. I also often credit Americans with an unfortunate lack of long range planning ability and nearsightedness pertaining to global trends. On the other hand, remember that Americans come from all over; many lands, many peoples, many cultures. Cultures with traditions of remembering who their friends and enemies are. America also has a history of giving other nations a lot of slack until they do something worthy of a response. Very often a response the target country doesn’t like.

    BTW-Chinese ownership of bond and treasury debt only matters if they can collect. Any hostility on their part would endanger that. Not to mention the fact that S. Korea and Japan are far more aware of who butters their bread and have enough of an economic interest in our wellbeing to offset whatever power China thinks it has. He seems to forget that the fact that Americans buying cheap Chinese goods is more a matter of psychology than anything else and discounts any possibility that Americans might buy less of their stuff to just to “stick it to them”. There hasn’t been a real campaign to illuminate counter-American ChiCom policies, only a whitewash of their activities for short-term economic gain. That can change in a way that would hurt them far more than us.

  47. says

    -americaningermany,

    No, we heard you. It’s just fun sometimes to sharpshoot what he says.

    BTW-Went back and read that previous thread. Pagandkapitat certainly went into victim-mode overdrive, displaying childish indignance while at the same time hurling abuse my way from his little holier-than-thou/hypocrite tower. I liked the “Nazi/bully” accusation. Just like every guy who gets injured while resisting arrest, trying to convince everyone that he was just innocently walking home from work when the cops, for no reason, jumped out and attacked him, all the while hoping no one will go back and review the dash-cam tape from the cruiser. That usually tells me all I need to know about someone when they pull that one out. It would be cruel to tweak him anymore than I already have. If he wants to stick to putting responsibility for jihad where it belongs, I have no more problem with him. If he wants to continue blaming America for everything while denying Indian culpability for the present situation, well…I don’t know if I want to bother with him any more than I already have. Judging from responses between my last and next to last, he’s probably gotten far more attention than he merits, something for which I am guilty myself.

  48. says

    TheVoiceofTruth – it is great that the jury acquitted Nick Griffin and Mark Collette, but VoiceofTruth, there is not a lot of hope since the Goverment immediatley announced that they are going to try to change the law. The Government did not get the result that they wanted, so they are going to change the law. They are determined that the truth about Islam will not be spoken, on pain of imprisonment, and if British juries won’t play ball (like they didn’t today, thankfully), then they are going to change the law.
    This Government is evil.

  49. says

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6137722.stm
    “In the wake of the BNP pair’s acquittals, Chancellor Mr Brown said: “Any preaching of religious or racial hatred will offend mainstream opinion in this country. We have got to do whatever we can to root it out from whatever quarter it comes. And if that means we have got to look at the laws again, we will have to do so.” ”

    ‘in the wake of’ is translated as ‘the very same afternoon’. On TV Brown actually used the phrase ‘in light of today’s verdict’

  50. says

    He said: “What has just happened shows Tony Blair and the government toadies at the BBC that they can take our taxes but they cannot take our hearts, they cannot take our tongues and they cannot take our freedom.”

    -Nick Griffin

    Upon reading the above article, hopefully the rest of Britain echoes the same sentiments.

    English blondie:

    I do not think these politicians will have time. How long do you think it will be before another atrocity is poured upon the innocent British from the vile belly of the Islamists? You won’t be able to stomp out the truth with phony laws and a lying, propaganda based press forever.

    Who are the real fascists: the BNP or the politicians who want to change the laws so that people can be jailed for telling the truth?

  51. says

    The scumbag Conyers here in America also seeks the same type of laws that would make criticizing Islam a crime. JW had a post on this about a week ago. The liberal has become the neo-fascist.

  52. says

    Britain

    Times Online November 10, 2006

    BNP leader celebrates acquittal outside race hate trial
    By Philippe Naughton

    The leader of the far-Right British National Party attacked Tony Blair and his “toadies in the BBC” today after being acquitted on two charges of stirring up racial hatred.

    Addressing supporters outside Leeds Crown Court, Nick Griffin also demanded the resignation of Colin Cramphorn, the Chief Constable of the West Yorkshire police, for wasting police time and money pursuing the case while the 7/7 bombers were preparing their atrocities on his patch.

    The not-guilty verdict in the retrial of Mr Griffin, 46, and the BNP publicity manager Mark Collett, 26, sent their supporters into a frenzy of cheering outside the court, where BNP members started chanting “freedom, freedom” as they waited for Mr Griffin to emerge.

    After leaving the court, Mr Griffin took up a megaphone to attack the Government, the Crown Prosecution Service and the BBC, whose undercover report on a meeting in a Yorkshire pub two years had prompted the charges.

    Mr Griffin, of Llanerfyl, Powys, Wales, was found not guilty on a charge of using words or behaviour intended to stir up racial hatred and an alternative charge of using words or behaviour likely to stir up racial hatred. Mr Collett was found not guilty on four similar charges.

    “Something’s just happened to show Tony Blair and the government toadies in the BBC that they can take our taxes, but they cannot take our hearts, they cannot take our tongues and they cannot take our freedom,” Mr Griffin declared.

    Mr Collett, a former Leeds University student and head of the BNP youth wing, said that the score after the retrial was “BNP 2 – BBC nil”.

    He added: “I was hauled over the coals for describing Asian criminals as Asians and their white victims as white. That is not a crime – that is the truth.

    “The BBC have abused their position. They are a politically correct, politically biased organisation which has wasted taxpayers’ money to bring two people in a legal democratic peaceful political party to court over speaking nothing more than the truth.

    “And even if we had gone to jail, I wouldn’t have minded going to the jail over truth.”

    During the retrial, the jury of five men and seven women heard extracts from a speech Mr Griffin made in the Reservoir Tavern, Keighley, on January 19, 2004, in which he described Islam as “this wicked, vicious faith” and said that Muslims were turning Britain into a “multi-racial hell hole” and described .

    The court heard that Mr Collett addressed the gathering on the same evening, saying: “Let’s show these ethnics the door in 2004.”

    Mr Griffin has told the jury that his speech was not an attack on Asians in general, but on Muslims. The defence also argued that since he was speaking at a private meeting, he could not be accused of trying to stir up hatred among the public – although neither men seemed careful to moderate their language after today’s court victory.

    During the 2004 speech Mr Griffin had drawn attention to the reported problem of Muslim gangs attacking young white girls in the area, and he blamed Islam and the Koran for their behaviour.

    He told the court: “This isn’t a racial thing. It’s not an Asian thing. It’s a cultural and religious thing.”

    He said that his study of Islam and the Koran had led him to believe that the idea of moderate Islam was a “politically correct nonsense” but that his criticism of Islam was not a cover for a hatred of all Asians.

    Mr Griffin has told the court that until the late 1990s “the party, even myself to a certain extent, could be described as racist”, but this was no longer the case”. Mr Collett said his speeches were only intended to motivate party members to take part in “legal and democratic” campaigning.

    The retrial was heard at a time of heightened racial tensions and a parallel political debate on the rights and wrongs of Muslim women wearing the veil in British public life.

    Summing up yesterday, the Recorder of Leeds, Judge Norman Jones QC, said: “Issues have arisen during this case which have drawn attention to politics and religion.

    “This case is not about whether the political beliefs of the BNP are right or wrong. It’s not about whether assertions made about Islam are right or wrong. Those are issues to be debated in different arenas.”

    He continued: “We live in a democratic society which jealously protects the rights of its citizens to freedom of expression, to free speech. That does not mean it is limited to speaking only the acceptable, popular or politically correct things. It extends to the unpopular, to those which many people may find unacceptable, unpalatable and sensitive.

    “Along with those rights come rights and duties not to abuse them.”

    Speaking outside the courtroom, Mr Griffin once again accused young Muslim men of ganging up to attack British women of other faiths and races, describing it as the “final taboo”.

    He also attacked Mr Cramphorn, the West Yorkshire police chief, for having dedicated “three or four” officers full-time for up to six months to investigate Mr Griffin’s speeches at a time when Mohammed Siddique Khan and the other 7/7 bombers were planning their attacks on the London transport system.

    Speaking of the victims of those attacks, he said: “The fact they were all horribly blown to pieces is in part the fault of Colin Cramphorn.”

    As he spoke a cordon of police in high-visibility reflective jackets kept the BNP supporters away from a group of anti-fascist protesters gathered across the street.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2447721_2,00.html

  53. says

    BNP leader attacks Koran in court
    By Andrew Norfolk

    Nick Griffin quotes passages to support his claim that Muslims are exhorted to conquer the world

    The leader of the British National Party sought yesterday to justify his view that Islam is a “wicked, vicious faith”.
    Nick Griffin, the BNP chairman, was giving evidence in a trial at which he is accused of attempting to stir up racial hatred in a speech that he made to party supporters.

    His speech, which was filmed by an undercover journalist, included the claim that Asians were raping white girls as part of a Muslim plot to conquer Britain. Mr Griffin, 47, told a jury at Leeds Crown Court that his condemnation had been directed not at Asians in general, but at Islam and the criminal activities of its followers.

    The court has been told that, although the law prohibits the incitement of racial hatred, the incitement of religious hatred is not a criminal offence.

    Questioned by Timothy King, QC, for the defence, Mr Griffin said that he had been trying to explain to his audience the distinction between different groups of Asians.

    The grooming, drugging and raping of more than 60 white schoolgirls by young Asian men in Keighley, West Yorkshire, the venue for his 2004 speech, had not been the work of Sikhs or Hindus, he said. “I was trying to explain that the common denominator [of the rapists] is not their Asian ethnicity, it’s the fact that they are Muslims,” he said.

    Mr Griffin said that he had formed his views on Islam after studying the religion for several years. He said that, until the late 1990s, “the party, myself to a certain extent, could be described as racist”, but this was no longer the case. From 1999 onwards he had read books and articles about Islam, finally buying a copy of the Koran.

    Mr Griffin told the jury that the Koran “gives a very low status to women and an extremely low status to unbelievers”, which coloured Muslim attitudes towards white women.

    He said it was also “the theme of Muhammad’s teachings . . . that Islam is destined to, and must, conquer the entire world and that all good Muslims have a duty to help that to happen”.

    “This is not a racial thing, it’s not an Asian thing, it’s a cultural and religious thing,” he said. The message of his speech had been that “if people don’t get involved politically, then the problem is going to get worse”.

    Mr Griffin said that he had read newspaper articles which reported that “on present trends, the native white community will become a minority in this country some time between 2060 and 2100″.

    Until recently, the Establishment mantra had been that the enrichment brought to communities by multiculturalism was a “heaven on earth”. The truth, he said, was that Britain had become “a multiracial hell-hole”.

    Mr Griffin, who said that he had a Cambridge degree in history and law, was asked by Mr King to point out verses from the Koran that supported his stance on Islam and its aims.

    The BNP leader selected passages that, he said, were used by Islamists to justify terrorist attacks ” “Make ready whatever you can to terrify the enemies of Allah” ” and the barbaric treatment of nonbelievers. “The casual contempt, ranging to hatred, that’s displayed to non-Muslims by Muslims in this country is rooted in the loathing and contempt for unbelievers that is in their good book,” he said.

    The Koran, Mr Griffin said, also gave Muslims a reason to reject democracy, by telling them not to obey unbelievers, and to treat women as possessions: “Your women are tillage for you, so get to your tillage whenever you like.” The most important difference between Islam and Christianity, he said, was that it was possible to distinguish between fundamentalist and non-fundamentalist Christians.

    The term Islamic fundamentalist was inappropriate because “Muslims have never moved away from a literal interpretation of the Koran”. He added: “The prosecution are trying to say that, when I criticise Islam, it’s just a cover for criticising Asians. Well, it’s not.”

  54. says

    Shiva:

    Good postings. Compare Griffin’s analysis to Tony Blair’s and Prince Charles. Which of the three speak for the British patriots who gave their lives to make men free? Two speak for more appeasement, one speaks to puting an end to the attempt to abolish British culture and the priciples that have guided its history.

  55. says

    I imagine the guys and gals in MI5’s Watcher Service are exhausted.

    Tough duty…surveillence. Its harder than one thinks. Things can happen real quick, and if you’re tired and/or just happen to be looking away, you miss it.

  56. says

    They cant stop them all, and lets face it, Bush, Blair, and Mr Howard didnt submit to Islam when they were invited, so what does the Quran say if they dont???? Invitation first, and if they do not submit then slaughter them!!!… hmmm…
    Are they planning the slaughter, nah, muslims are peaceful people and their clerics or their own will stop them if someone goes astray…there will be world wide outrage from Muslims if someone does that, as there always is…there will be many thousands of Muslims in the streets protesting against the horrors of what their own did to the infidel??? hmmmm….their papers will be full of how terrible a rogue Muslim was in doing that..Their TV’s will cover the horror and condem what had been done??? yea like….just as they always do….

  57. says

    Americaningermany, Shiva and Briars –
    If you look at the defintions of ‘fascist’ the ideology it fits most closely is Islam.
    And as for ‘Nazi’, let us remember that it was Muslims who collaborated with the Nazis to kill Jews in the second World War:

    “Mohammad Amin al-Husayni (ca. 1895 – July 4, 1974, أمين الحسيني, alternatively spelt al-Husseini), the Mufti of Jerusalem, was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and a Muslim religious leader. Known for his anti-Zionism, al-Husayni fought against the establishment of a Jewish state in the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine. To this end, Husayni collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II and helped recruit Muslims for the Waffen-SS.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

    Talking of the Second World War: REMEMBRANCE DAY tomorrow.
    God bless them.

  58. says

    The Spectator, 1 January 2005

    In the middle of December last year, five police officers turned up at the Welsh home of Nick Griffin, leader of the British National party, and arrested him on suspicion of inciting racial hatred.

    Griffin was driven to Halifax police station and forced to watch three hours’ worth of his own speeches, which the police had surreptitiously recorded. He was then released without charge, bailed and told to reappear on 2 March this year – precisely at the time campaigning is expected to begin for the next general election. Mr Griffin is standing against David Blunkett, in Sheffield Brightside.

    A bunch of other BNP members were arrested at the same time as Mr Griffin. The West Yorkshire police investigation was provoked by a BBC ‘undercover’ programme which revealed the startling fact that some members of the BNP – although not Griffin – clearly harboured racist views. It also showed Griffin talking in a pub and suggesting that Islam was a ‘wicked’ religion.

    This programme was shown in July last year and, in a statement following the arrests, West Yorkshire police proudly announced that it had deployed a team of officers on the case ‘five days a week, ten hours a day’ ever since. Now at this point in the article, a really good journalist would tell you how big that team of policemen was. And how much the investigation had cost the taxpayer. And also cross-referenced it with how many burglaries, muggings, etc., had been carried out in the West Yorkshire area from July to 12 December. Especially unsolved ones. But I haven’t been able to find that stuff out: the police won’t tell me. But let’s just remember: a team of police officers, five days a week, ten hours per day.

    I got interested in this case after writing an article for the Sunday Times about Blunkett’s proposed law prohibiting people from inciting religious hatred. This is part of the new Serious and Organised Crime and Police Bill, unveiled in the Queen’s Speech. According to Blunkett, it is intended to protect ‘individuals’ rather than ‘ideology’ – but this is a meaningless and disingenuous statement. It’s actually to stop you dissing Islam, full stop. I tried to find out from the Home Office what would constitute an offence under the new Act and nobody could tell me: they haven’t got a clue. I asked loads of times. And then, on 8 December, a Home Office press officer said to me the following:

    ‘It’s all about context. If you wrote something in your column about Islam, the Crown Prosecution Service might not be interested, but if the same thing was said by Nick Griffin in a pub in Bradford, they might well be.’

    Now, leave aside for a moment the repulsive implications of such person-specific legislation and therefore the wholly subjective nature of this new ‘offence’. Forget for a moment that it will be left to the police (or the Home Secretary) to decide whether or not someone dissing Islam is doing it for naughty reasons or for nice reasons and what the hell difference that makes. What interested me once my article had been printed were the apparently clairvoyant powers of the Home Office press officer. Because, of course, four days after that conversation with the press officer, Nick Griffin was arrested for having said something in a pub about Islam.

    It must he clairvoyance, because when I rang the Home Office back it insisted it had no involvement whatsoever in the Nick Griffin case. It didn’t even know that the arrests were pending, proposed or imminent, a different press officer pronounced. Its officials had not even talked to the West Yorkshire police about the case, I was told. Twice.

    ‘Stretching it a bit to be just coincidence, isn’t it?’ I asked.

    ‘We had no contact at all,’ the press officer repeated.

    That’s not quite what West Yorkshire police say officially, however. In a written statement to me (their press officers are incapable of speech, I think) they said the following: ‘West Yorkshire police has worked closely with the Crown Prosecution Service throughout this inquiry. The Home Office has had no part in the direction and control of this inquiry, which is the responsibility of the chief constable. However, both Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabularies and Home Office officials have been kept apprised of the progress of the inquiry.’

    This is, to my mind, a direct contradiction of what the Home Office told me. What do you think?

    Unofficially, the West Yorkshire police were more forthcoming. Two officers visited a local BNP member, Paul Cromie, as part of the same operation which ‘netted’ Nick Griffin. Here’s what one of the police officers, from West Yorkshire’s Manningham nick, told Mr Cromie at the close of his interview: ‘At the end of the day this whole thing should be … well, it is very political. It’s not coming from senior police. It’s coming from much higher than that.’

    Earlier in their conversation the same officer asserted that the investigation wasn’t expected to ‘come to much’.

    We know this because Mr Cromie made a surreptitious recording of his interview and I’ve got a copy of the tape. I suppose he might have paid some actors to play the parts of policemen, but I don’t think so.

    Anyway, West Yorkshire police said they wouldn’t comment on the comments allegedly made by one of their officers, which was no great surprise, frankly, as they wouldn’t even tell me what the regional crime figures were.

    Curious to find out a little more about the mechanics behind the arrest of Mr Griffin, I spoke to the magistrate who signed the warrant for his arrest. That’s Mrs Valerie Parnham, who lives near Bradford.

    A man answered the telephone. I told him I was a journalist and wanted to speak to Mrs Parnham. He shouted down the hallway: ‘Valerie? VALERIE? I told you this would happen!’

    Then a timorous Mrs Parnham came on the telephone. ‘I can’t say anything about this. I could get into trouble.’

    Well, I just wanted to know if you were happy to sign the arrest warrant, I said, as plaintively as possible.

    ‘(Long pause) I can’t say anything about this. I’m sorry.’

    It’s all a bit of a mystery, isn’t it? Although why, heaven alone knows. West Yorkshire police seem simultaneously proud of the operation and terribly reticent. The Home Office is, yet again, dissembling.

    Meanwhile, the BNP leader Nick Griffin thinks it highly unlikely that he will be charged with anything at all and believes the whole thing is merely an attempt on the part of the Home Office – he is very clear about that – to ‘break’ the BNP. It wouldn’t surprise me overmuch if he were right about that. But I suspect it’s more a case that the then Home Secretary, David Blunkett, wished to placate New Labour’s enormous Muslim constituency which has been querulous of late, partly over the war against Iraq, partly over the arrests of suspected Muslim terrorists here in the UK. What better way to do a bit of placating than round up the ghastly racists of the BNP? And how fortuitous that the next time the BNP members appear in court it will be on 2 March, just as the general election campaign is expected to get under way.

    But a number of questions remain in the mind. For example, who is telling the truth, the West Yorkshire police or the Home Office? And how does the Home Office explain away that statement to me from its press officer which predated Nick Griffin’s arrest?

    More seriously, we might start to worry ourselves about the laws against inciting racial hatred and the new one intended to combat what has been called religious hatred. Griffin was arrested on suspicion of contravening the former of these. As his comments were confined exclusively to Muslims (and even then in comparatively moderate tones) and the new law about inciting religious hatred was intended to give Muslims hitherto absent protection, why do we need a new law? What’s the point of it? If people can be arrested for dissing Islam, then the new law is surely entirely superfluous.

    And then there’s this. Griffin was forced to watch all his speeches with the coppers in attendance – but no single specific phrase was identified by the police as having contravened the laws against inciting racial hatred. Instead, the policemen explained to him that it was the totality of what he had said: in other words, we can’t quite put our finger on it, but we think you might have broken the law. But as I say, there’s nothing we can actually point to. Isn’t that approach a bit dangerous? And are we happy with the way in which legislation is invoked to punish people to whom we may be politically opposed?

    For the man in the street, the taxpayer, the voter mulling over the question of law and order, there’s this question: West Yorkshire police spent an awful lot of money and an awful lot of man hours investigating a man who will almost certainly not face a criminal charge nine months later, no matter how liberally the charge of inciting racial hatred is interpreted. Is this a responsible use of police time and effort?

    And despite the denials, don’t you suspect that this was precisely a politically motivated and, indeed, directed operation which will, in the end, do nothing to improve race relations and only ensured that a few more burglars and other such recidivists, who are a genuine menace to the public, were able to go about their business unhindered because of the priorities of this government? Would West Yorkshire police have spent so much time and effort on the case had it not been for political involvement from – as that errant officer put it – ‘higher than that’?

    And there is the broader, more general philosophical point: as an indirect result of the War on Terror, our freedom to say what we believe is being swiftly eroded. It’s not just the Muslims who want people silenced or banged up: the Sikhs have been getting in on the act too, forcing a play which was critical of their religion to close. On the day it closed the Sikhs got support from a particularly fatuous spokesman for the Archbishop of Birmingham. He said that people should be free to criticise religion if they did so ‘responsibly’. What a pompous ass. Surely it would be better if God, rather than the West Yorkshire police or the Sikhs or Muslim community leaders, decided what constituted responsible criticism – and delivered His terrible judgment in that black nanosecond after we have drawn our terminal breath. Otherwise the law courts are going to be full for a while to come.

  59. says

    Eisenhund,Americaningermany,

    I am thankful in a way this “racist and whiteman’s brown stooge” thing came up. This pc culture is throttling me and paganwhatever preens ” we are freedom loving”! Never can I say with abandon ” a white man has excellent communication skills” or praise Churchill for his perspicacious assessment of islam and power hungry “rascals” i.e.,Indians prior to so called “independence” that we “got with grit and determination”(pagand}. But we have to nod our heads when people around prattle “spicy cuisine, art, music, horticulture, fragrant saffron yadayada everything is due to the munificence of muslimes. Or embellished by the marauders.

    Thanks for the post about china, Eisenhund.
    Btw, some of them have been learning Hindi I saw on our channel. You would know why. But the reporter ascribed it to the “entrancing influence of bollywood movies of India”…lol..even puki mush’s macabre joke is preferable to such an idiotic deduction;)

    muslims live by their thaqiyadeathbetrayal cult convictions. What does India stand for? Recall some time back an indian
    posted ” we gotta stage a 9/11 and ask for $ from America taking a leaf out of pakis”(sic)?
    I repeat myself ” those indians (muslim loving & America (West) Israel hating) are the sleaziestest sluts of india”.

    Because Naipaul wrote the truth, dhimmichurlish India did not want to give him *Bharath Rathna*.

  60. says

    -Crows&Cows,

    Actually, it was americaningermany who brought up China. She was responding to some comments posted by “kung fu fighter”.

    Regarding your interaction with pagan-, I wish I could say “misery loves company” in that PC garbage was not limited to just America and Europe, but truthfully, I’m no more happy that you have to deal with it than the fact that I do. I am glad, however, that you are among the corps of those who know who the true enemy is.

  61. says

    Eisenhund,

    Thank You! Thank God, at least here, there is no comment moderation. And ratiocination based on facts sans sophistry. Above all unwavering focus on the peril before us. Most Indians by tangoeing for toooo long with muslimes have imbibed intolerance for criticism and hatred for truth. And now that newspapers crow, India is flush with money, india is shining blahblah, the sabre rattlers thumb their noses with “buddy, gotta come to me as equal whatever”. When he talked about mother earth and father sky, wanted to remind that Delhi has earned the name of RAPE CAPITAL of india.

    Posting the following (can’t find the url) written by an Indian journalist called Sengupta. Presents the unvarnished truth :

    “So what was wrong when a Dutch embassy official said that Delhi looked like a garbage dump? Why did our patriotic instincts get so aroused that we almost condemned this frank, free speech? Delhi is a non-biodegradable, backward capitalist, semi-feudal, patriarchal, uncultured garbage dump. Why shy away from that? Not only that, Delhi has turned into a vast, sprawling, ever, macho public urinal, a shit hole, a faceless ghetto, an architect’s black-hole nemesis, an octopus without a soul or belonging or sensitivity or civic sense. So what is so Mera Bharat Mahan about Delhi being a damned garbage dump?
    Can’t you see it all over the place, from the posh, palatial south zones to the twilight zones of the east and west, with the demolished slums in between? Surely, even tinted windows of swanky cars are transparent, aren’t they? So why hide the gaze? And where do the women go? The mother, the housewife, the working women?

    On the streets, in marketplaces, public parks, public transport, long distance roadways buses, flyovers, national highways “why are they condemned to hold on while men are all over pissing in stark daylight as if it’s a tide on a full-moon night. And where do you walk? The slimy, stagnant, fragrant pavements are full of pissers in full public glory. The roads and highways are full of pissers. Not only the nooks and corners, they are all over the ideal city-state. The entire city has become a virtual reality of a public urinal”the stench floating like a cliché.
    Except that the Centre and Delhi government, the MPs, the MLAs, the Opposition politicians, the ruling party politicians, the police, the mandarins in the municipalities, the Union ministers, the ex-ministers, the bureaucrats and babus, the elite” eyes wide shut, the page 3 party-types with colonial hangovers, the upwardly mobile and the middle mobile, the fourth estate, the real estate”no one is willing to see this masculine display of public patriotism. Mass urinals as a tourist delight”welcome to this machismo capital of the power elite, the special dirty zone of organised filth and muck and gaseous, fungus-ridden waste and dirty waters.
    When the masses are against hygiene and aesthetics, and when the men have no shame, and when the government wears a sanitised chastity belt of cold-blooded ignorance, who can stop this great pissing nationalism of our nationhood defined, even while we put pictures of gods on walls, stairs, pavements, residential areas to stop people peeing and spitting?
    And if you think this is because Delhi is flooded by the unwashed, the slum dweller, the landless poor and urban worker, the low-middle class uncultured vulture, and that it is a demographic paradigm shift that is polluting its geography, think again, and look back with originality, if not anger. That SUV, and not only with a UP or Haryana nameplate, its door half-open, its owner in a safari suit, doing it in the open courtyard of Pragati Maidan. Sometimes wife and daughter wait in the car till the man gives way to the basic looing instinct. This fascinating phenomena, truly, has broken all class barriers”the state has withered away and this philistine public piss joint is the only and ultimate utopia.

    That’s why they are pissing on the Lodi crematorium walls even as the dead depart for their final journey, inside public parks post-Pranayam, outside schools even as children cross the footpath, on the Yamuna bridge, car and scooter waiting, as a mother walks away quickly with her daughter; outside the gates of the palatial homes of our MPs and ministers in Lutyens’ Delhi, outside hospitals like the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, where harried patients and their equally harried relatives wait for buses on the road under the sun because the state has chosen to build no bus shelters here for the last 20 years, on flyovers, parking lots, pavements and bus stops, talking on cell phones, bang in front of those waiting for a bus, while the bus waits and the pissers zip it up and walk into the “ladies only’ seats, proud and ugly like pea-cocks.

    In any case, most clean, new pay-and-use toilets, barring a handful, are loaded in favour of advertisers in prime locations. Good planning, as they say. In any case, Delhi has no public space culture, no benches where you can write a letter, no open-air modest restaurants where you can read a book and drink a black coffee or beer, no footpaths or stairs where a young couple can hang out and smoke. Delhi hates its women, unlike Mumbai and Kolkata; women here are forever in danger of assault, physical, invisible, objectified, uncensored violence. Delhi is for the obscenely super rich, male and female, in affluent, sanitised, enclosed, air-conditioned, cocooned, protected zones, here they don’t smell the stench; Delhi is also for the male masses, lower, middle, upwardly mobile, downwardly mobile, the poor, the migrant, the exiled, the conquerors of the golden city, the pissers of paradise.
    A swank car stops at Nizamuddin crossing. The door opens as a window rolls down, a prosperous man puts his chubby face out, and out flows from his mouth a huge chunk of red liquid, a paan’s remnants, and runs like a Persian carpet on the road. They are spitting everywhere, from bus windows on bikers, from truck windows on cyclists, from cars on pedestrians. If they could, they would piss from the windows.
    They throw beer and coke cans, wafer packets, wrappers, plastic everywhere”the entire city is a bin. The city belongs to no one. No one belongs to the city. If you cheat me, I will cheat someone else. Me, mine, myself, who cares for Bhagidari? So why say, I love Delhi? Because Delhi is a sucked-up lollipop. Delhi is polythene, all over, on trees, dhabas, shops, inside the choked-up intestines of our homeless, holy cows eating polythene with glass, plastic, leather, shoes, tin, aluminium, metal, used crackers, matchboxes, gutka packs in the garbage dumps. Gai hamari mata hai”the cow is our mother! So who will ask the Hindutva Godse Genius, if it is not cow slaughter, what else it is?
    And where has the river gone? The pristine Yamuna at Yamunotri in the Himalayas, its magical origin, finds a magical metamorphosis at Wazirpur, in West Delhi, and becomes a divine nullah, a stagnant shitpot of millions, poisonous, full of effluents, garbage and chemicals. The river disappears, the dirty nullah resurrects everyday, even as Delhiites stop their cars and throw polythene packets full of ritualistic Hindu flowers into the abyss of this abysmal degradation.
    As I write this, thousands of Biharis are jumping into the half-white foam of this utterly filthy stagnation and celebrating Chatt in trans-Yamuna. So where did the crores of rupees spent on cleaning the river disappear? And what reflection can a narcissistic, consumerist, unaesthetic society find in the waters when it looks for its self-image? Shit. Our own shit.
    Across Delhi, the new, green garbage containers designed by a genius dot the landscape like memorials. Except that dogs and pigs have found new homes, with the garbage spilling over and people jumping over them, like long jumpers in a nation with one Olympic bronze. So why spend crores on full-page ads asking people to protect themselves against the Aedes mosquito? The Aedes factory is right here, breeding, State-sponsored, all for free.
    That’s what we are, Hoo Ha India, the superpower, nuclear power capital, floating on yellow swimming pools of male piss, with a condemned river of fossilised shit and chemicalised filth, and thousands of tonnes of garbage scattered everywhere, like grand testimonies of a clean, happy, healthy society. Like philistines becoming reformers. Like reformers becoming philistines. Welcome to the capital city of power and pelf. The ideal state’s public urinal”.

  62. says

    Americaningermany,

    Let pc go to hell. I want to gossip.

    The countries cited by you stand for ZERO ethics. When a Westerner( Israeli Jews included) gets raped or conned, hand wringing is spurred only by concern for india’s image as tourist friendly and thereby the money that may not pour in. There is total absence of rage, FEELING. Instead ,sneaking gloating like “ah…the decadent foreigner was asking for it..”(SIC). A muslime gutterscum, who was notorious for such inshallah acts( they are all untouchables– above law) when interviewed by a bleeding heart leftist (india is overpopulated by them) snapped back rudely:
    ” They (Whites) ruled over us, hence I am justified in doing so” (sic) and that was it!!

    The muslime president (kalam,the missile man),when one of his bodyguards raped a college girl (“in broad daylight” that is imp as per journalistic standards here)not a word of apology or consternation (forget about punishment) came from president. Instead it was decreed, that the rapist would serve in the Border for only 3 months as sentence. Which means ,all the Brave Soldiers guarding India’s Borders with their lives and blood are all *rapists serving sentences*!!?? going by the president’s logic.

    It is a fact reconfirmed by Indian Army that Israeli Barak missile was far far superior to the so called indigenous one whose inspiration came from muslime missile man. Now the govt is on a witchhunt imputing there were kickbacks yadayada ….do you see a pattern?

    There was intense lobbying and coercion to take this missileman as Professor in Indian Institute of Science and the latter stubbornly refused to be arm twisted. Serendipitously ,jihadists detonate bombs inside the Institute killing some illustrious Scientists/Professors.

    Incidentally a few good men of this institute had valiantly exposed one of the paedophile charlatan “godmen”.

  63. says

    Americaningermany,

    I found this from atlasshrugs. Time to get ruthless. Why should we feel responsible for someone else’s misery?

    I am appalled reading witchhunt of Rumsfeld. Believe me, always thought at least West would not be this dhimmi, would wake up and roar. He is an American and how Germany is involved in this? This convoluted pc crap makes me weary. There is only Good vs evil. Talking about Whites or any non existent stuff like this is “pretentiously intellectual opium eating”.

    ” It is envy that makes a Communist, Nazi, or Moslem Terrorist. It is the fear of being envied that makes a liberal.

    Liberalism is not a political philosophy or coherent set of beliefs. It is a psychological strategy to avoid being envied. All forms of leftism and liberalism are based on an atavistic belief in Black Magic. All are based on the primitive fear of the envious Evil Eye”

    It is precisely envy,covetousness and deceit pitted against good and normal, that forms the crux of Mahabharatha and Ramayana. God(in human form there) never shows any pc pardon.
    And I am waiting. No more charities. No God is going to punish us for feeling what we feel.
    Cheer up!