"Who will kill the pope in Istanbul?"

I pray nothing happens, but if something does...we are on the brink........

StillFedUp,

Yeah, I cracked up on, "the center of tolerance and love," also!

You can't beat these guys for their sense of ironic humor!

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

If an Islamic fanatic does assassinate Pope Benedict in Turkey, some liberal Muslim defender will say that the pope's statements in Regensburg were the reasons he was murdered, i.e. he caused the anger which killed him. Therefore, his assassin needs to be understood as having been pushed into murder by the victim, and thus should be dealt with leniently.

Frankly, I think the Pope will be well protected. Yes, even by the Turkish authorities. They want EU membership too badly to mess up on this one.

Nah....they'll just blame the americans.

ALERT TROLL MARYAM ("Im a devout English muslim" and I do not believe what you say about Islam) is on the suicide bomber 'Ahmed' bomber thread right now giving americaningermany a hard time. Im helping out come out and check it out at:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014168.php#comments

i nearly choked myself laughing at "the center of tolerance and love" idea, but i cannot help feeling that the Pope is deliberately exposing himself to danger for one very good reason: to end any chance of EU admission for at least a generation.
his Regensburg address only gently prodded the beast, but it reacted immediately, and now he will go into the den.
i am not a Catholic, but i think this Pope is a very brave man, and i hope that he will succeed.

I guess I want to give a firm warning to the Muslim world...

If any harm happens to the Pope during his visit to Turkey then your people will be set back 100 years. People in the west will not forget or forgive.

You must keep your wackos under control. People in the west do not hate Muslims. Heck we do not want to dislike you. But the worst case happens then we will have to read the writing on the wall and finally come to grips that we cannot co-exist as civiliztions within the same sphere of infulence.

You will give us a good reason not to trust you anymore.

So my brothers in all religions please be aware GOD does not stand back and just watch. GOD is everywhere all the time. GOD gave you a life. Don't disrespect GOD by killing what he created.

Enough religion now. So here is what I am saying.

If something bad should happen:
1. End of the Internet for you.
2. End of any modern conviences.
3. End of visiting the west.
4. No Muslim religion in the west
5. Complete support of Israel even by countries that are not currently friendly with Israel.
6. Securing of oil fields by the west. This means not revenue for development of countries in the middle east.
7. I could go on and on but you get the picture.

How to stop all this....

All moderate Muslims stand up to these fanatics. Put them in their place. We constantly do the same to ours.

In my 30 plus years attending Catholic churh never once have I heard any talk against Muslims or other religions. We always try to see GOD's work in everything. Modern Christians aren't afraid of science. We see GOD's laws that created them. So we are in awe of GOD's complexity.

To the people of this message board. We can complain and find fault with the current Muslim attitude, but I would like to suggest from this point forward that some of you take it on yourselves to suggest positive solutions.

Remember WWII. After 50 million people were killed we all finally came around to having peace.

If you know that after war is peace as it has always been make suggestions and/or take action to keep peace and avoid war.

As a student of history I can only say...

Archduke Franz Ferdinand
Sarajevo
Jun 28th 1914

We know the rest of the story.....

"Does anyone believe there will be serious backlash if a muslim Turk kills the Pope?"
Posted by: americaningermany
------

I'm guessing a new Crusade, what about you?

The Zionists and the Rotary Club!

I depends what you classify as wishful thinking.

You may be of the group that if you had a mountain to climb, you would believe that you are a loser if you didn't make it to the top. Whereas I am from the school that even if you only make it half way you will be closer to the goal than someone who never started at all.

I'm not a Polly Anna. All of the worlds' problems can't be solved by beautiful thinking, BUT, some of them can be solved.

A guy from Mexico once told me. You Americans only think in Black and White, whereas we see in shades of gray. I believe both viewpoints have their validity.

I know what will happen if things go to far. And if they do YOUR life will be affected drastically.

It's like your car that's low on oil. Do you wait till it's totally dry and the engine siezes up before you do something. No! You add oil.

The oil that each of us adds to civilization can appear in many ways. Helping some little old lady with her groceries. Posting on an Islamic website positive points of view, maybe discussing with them how to turn down the rhetoric. There are many ways.

Mekoots:

Agreed. Enough talk and discussion. There should be an element on this site of action to be taken against Islamism and the tools needed to do it.

1) In the US so called Muslim dialogue must be confronted with the purpose of exposing the intent of the "moderate Muslim". Ideological Crusaders must enter the discussions armed with quotations, sources, Mohammedian examples of hate induced scripture and applicable examples of the relationship of Jihad throughout the world. Inter Faith get togethers are a perfect setting for this.

2) A Robert Spencer like composure must be displayed at all times. PC local press will be quick to present a "crazy or bigoted" point of view of our examples.

3)A public alliance of anti- Jihad like thinkers must get together in all areas from Maine to California to organize our attack.

Just a few thoughts.

How old is Benedict? He has largely completed his life's work; written extensively on Christian doctrine and values; he is more than cognizant of the harsh way Islam has dealt with -- continues to deal with -- minority Christians in Muslim-dominated lands; and he clearly understands -- as his good friend and colleague Father Joseph Fessio implied recently in an interview -- that Islam is beyond reform. So how can he best serve as a catalyst for favorable change in the world? What is the one sacrifice he can make to bring about a new enlightenment, a widespread recognition of the abomination that is Islam?

What the heck is the Pope doing going to Turkey? There are a few Catholics there, but aren't most, nearly all, Christians there Orthodox? What is Benedict going to accomplish? Make new friends?

The best thing the West can do for Turkey is to reclaim it.

STILLFEDUP thanks for showing up and to the rest of you at the other thread our muslim troll guest seems to have fallen quiet for the moment. She's in england and thats what 6 hours ahead of EST standard US time I think.

STILLFEDUP I once read a book on rogue secret sevice cells in the govt of former red states which sometimes act against the main bodies wishes but the y do it in secret. Guess what I found when i looked up muslims in bulgaria:

"Muslim Bulgarians do not represent a homogenous community...Whereas the majority of the community has identified itself as Bulgarian in the population censuses in 1992 and 2001, a certain minority in the Western Rhodopes has opted for Turkish ethnicity although its mother tongue is also Bulgarian."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Bulgarians

So I bet they were Turkish sympathizers helping their Turkish 'fahterland' muslim brothers. Its all about Islam really. Always gets back to Allah and Islam with these people.

more about the muslims in bulgaria who think of themselves as turks (from above wik. link):

"There is also a substantial Muslim Bulgarian community in Turkey, estimated at some 120,000 people. These are not recognized by the Turkish government as an ethnic minority and have been largely Turkified. Some of them have Turkish or distinctive Pomak self-consciousness."

however the soviet union pulled the muslim strings I belive:

"the papal assassination had been organized and controlled by the Bulgarian secret service on behalf of the Soviet Union's security agency, the K.G.B., and Mr. Agca merely served as a paid gunman."

from AGCA AND POPE JOHN PAUL
article:
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/archived/papal.htm

Lets have a contest:

If something bad does happen to the pope, lets count how many times the press or commentators use the phrases,

1). Muslim humiliations

2). Muslim Sensitivities

and

3). Muslim poverty

"Does anyone believe there will be serious backlash if a muslim Turk kills the Pope?"
Posted by: americaningermany
------

I'm guessing a new Crusade, what about you?

Posted by: EliasAlucard

Elias you are way too optimistic. If the moslems harm the Pope it wil be business as usual for our governments and for business as well. Naturally with each moslemic atrocity the hatred for them grows within our peoples.

Let us pray for the Pope's continued good health and may he travelto those occupied lands with a strong backbone. He'll need it.

And trust me, the media and our 'leaders' will see to it that there won't be any "backlash". I wish Pope Benedict 16 a safe trip and return home to Civilization. And I hope he'll speak openly and freely!

Since we read and hear of muslim atrocities from all over the world , to the airplane stunts they pull, I would think harming the Pope would be the last straw. I think people would be fed up.

I don't know if there would be rioting in the streets, or taking pot shots at crossing muslims, but it might take a soft approach. No renting or selling to them, or just boycotting ANYTHING having to do with their countries.

Or it could be Rome does call for a new crusade. Literally.

"..authorities are braced for trouble and have mobilized an army of snipers.."

..and who will be watching the snipers?
(scarey, in deed)

"Istanbul was Constantinople. Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Been a long time gone ol' Constantinople, still a Turkish delight on a moonlit night.

Every gal in Constantinople lives in Istanbul not Constantinople; so if you've a date in Constantinople, she'll be waiting in Istanbul.

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam. Why they changed it I can't say. Folks just like it better that way.

So take me back to Constantinople. No, you can't go back to Constantinple. It's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks."

Sorry, I had "Achey, Breaky Heart" stuck in my head and that was the only cure.

Madduck: Old Roman saying "Quis custodiet custodes? (Who guards the guards?) I agree it is a scary thought that Muslim snipers will be "guarding" the pope. Who knows how many of them are Islamic fundamentalists? Turkey does have a rather large problem with them.

What would happen if someone killed (God forbid) the Pope?
Nothing. A lot of self-analysis, why do they hate us? "Just a tiny minority" killed him. "He had it coming" for giving a speech that angered muslims. I regret to inform you that the West is too damned lazy and feminized to do jack-*%#*.

Carolyn2

Unfortunately, you are correct. It would be just like after 9/11, when libs and blame America types asked the same questions.

Carolyn2: Pope Benedict, while immensely popular with the Catholic rank and file, has many people at the top of the Church, and especially in the middle bureaucracies, who hate him with a passion. If he is murdered, you can bet your life that such people will do their best to paralyze any reaction even within the Church itself; and the anti-Catholic mass media will do the rest. There will be no backlash. Perhaps a deeper, grimmer, more hopeless sense of inner rebellion and rage on the part of those who can do nothing - but no backlash. According to Sandro Magister, the best-informed Vatican reporter around, there are people even in the Vatican press office who are doing everything they can to undercut the Pontiff - translations of his documents and letters, that should be published instantly, often take months, and when they come they are apt to be tendentious. Unfortunately, if the Turks kill him they will be doing most of the Western leadership a favour. They will give him a nice funeral, make a lot of lengthy speeches, and hope that this time the Conclave elects a more amenable fellow.

Crusades? Not in my lifetime.

The Pope is crazy going to Turkey, maybe he wants to become a martyr. Not with all the Papaphobia going around these days.
http://cyberray-rays.blogspot.com/2006/11/pope-phobia.html#links

Paolo,
Very sad, indeed. I will also predict more converts to the dark side. God help us.

americaningermany quote

"Does anyone believe there will be serious backlash if a muslim Turk kills the Pope?"

where was the backlash when turkey invaded cyprus and burned churches and killed 6000 greek Cypriots? instead usa was selling them weapons and calling them a great freind i doubt there would be a backlash on turkey if the pope was killed by a turk after all the other pope st paul was shot by a turk and no one could see that it was a turk that did it they said he was a agent of the communist see what puzzles me is why would a turk be a agent of communist when turks where against russia it makes no sence to me

More "otherness" from Europe

Ummah News Links

OT,
but a very good link about Mohammedan propaganda tecnique called 'turnspeak'-

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/turnspeak.html

I think the authorities pulled Mehmet Ali Agca back into jail, for it would make it an unparallelable 'achievement' if he shot two Popes in a row (as if shooting one didn't). As for the first case, he was no more than an extension of the gun. (I doubt the number of his brain cells exceeds his shoesize.) But it's scary how he became an important figure for some and was driven away by a shiny Mercedes when he was released from jail for a while. It's not the Islamists favoring him; it's the fascists whose ideals lead to as far as Pan-turkism. Apparently, the guy can serve the left or right without any prejudice, so long as they pay him.
While I expect demostraitons and loud shouts against the Pope, I don't think anyone would directly aim at him.
As for the protests (and possible attacks)blocking Turkey's way into EU, give me a break; is there any possibility of Turkey ever getting in?...

Greek Gurl,
Can you please also give a count of the Turks killed by the Greek Cypriots? It may shed a light as to why Turks marched in.

Sadly, I don't think that there will be any repercussions for his murder.

The Pope is a figure-head, and unfortunately, he's R E P L A C A B L E. As long as the "position" is being filled, then everyone will simply move on with their lives, and the Pope will go down in history as a martyr. Plain and simple.

Carolyn2: Pope Benedict, while immensely popular with the Catholic rank and file, has many people at the top of the Church, and especially in the middle bureaucracies, who hate him with a passion. If he is murdered, you can bet your life that such people will do their best to paralyze any reaction even within the Church itself; and the anti-Catholic mass media will do the rest.

_______________________________________

Personally, I think Pope Benedict's main contribution to the Church will be his writings. I think in some ways, he and John Paul II, are laying the foundation for a reform of authentic and full Christian practice and belief in the 21st century. John Paul II, in his Theology of the Body, has provided a wonderful counter-point to the sexual revolution and Benedict has sought to restore faith and reason as being supportive of the ancient dogmas and creed of the Church. On a local level I've found much hope in the non-specialist Catholic. Yes, other people might be in charge right now, but underneath - the local Catholic is starting to gravitate towards greater personal devotion and more solid doctrine. An outer reaction from the Church if Pope Benedict was killed would probably be suppressed, but inner reaction would continue to grow and I believe, and hope, that the future leaders of the church, and lay persons, would be able to step forward into leadership positions.

Greek Gurl,
Can you please also give a count of the Turks killed by the Greek Cypriots? It may shed a light as to why Turks marched in.

Posted by: Oben d'Imishte

I smell a troll.

Thanks for your pro jihad comments. Yes Oben d'imsihte all muslim atrocities have been incited by evil christians thank you for putting to rest the myth of muslim violence.

back to the thehappyinfidel's contest Lets count which world leader makes his way to go pray in a mosque the fastest if anything happens to the pope to show that Islam is a religion of peace.

OLD SARGE

Said letter to be cosigned by Kofi Annan, John Kerry, Nancy, Pelosi, and Harry Reid.

errr...juss thought i'd drop this link off for u, Roobart.
Al Azhar University Outlaws Female Circumcision
so u know who to give props to.
=)

Monkeywho,

If in any event this pope does become a martyr, all we have to do is remember the very old saying "the blood of martyrs is the seed for new Christians. "

The most important thing folks is to pray for B16's safety and that the seeds of Christ's good news will be planted.

Folks, just ignore any and all trolls.

Greek Gurl,
Can you please also give a count of the Turks killed by the Greek Cypriots? It may shed a light as to why Turks marched in.

Posted by: Oben d'Imishte

oben d' imishte they marched in Cyprus becuase of same reason why they took constantinople they are nationlist and want to make Cyprus turkish

I've given this whole matter a lot of thought and the way I see things, the pope is going to be fine.

I believe that he will return to Rome unharmed despite the organized protests in Turkey.

This will, thankfully, be a none event.

I guess the Salvation Army comes to mind...

3)A public alliance of anti- Jihad like thinkers must get together in all areas from Maine to California to organize our attack.

Just a few thoughts.

Posted by: Briars

I'm all ears. I agree we must show numbers - AND IN PUBLIC!

witness,

I do believe it will be just an historic visit to see the leader of the Orthodox Church. He will get back safe.

USBEAST QUOTE:

"So take me back to Constantinople. No, you can't go back to Constantinple. It's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks."

Yes and if we dont make ISLAM our business, now , today, they will take over London and other cities and we'll be singing
" London is Londistan and its nobody's business but the jerks (of Islam)"

!!

DONT LET OUR MODERN DAY FREE WORLD FALL LIKE THAT OLD CITY. THEY ALREADY ATTACKED NYC AND LONDON (and attempted Toronto) --they are treating it as another "constantinople".

Greek Gurl,
Can you please also give a count of the Turks killed by the Greek Cypriots? It may shed a light as to why Turks marched in.

Posted by: Oben d'Imishte

Whatever the amount of turks they killed - How does that compare to all the people killed by the turks???!!!!!

Greece has long been the victim of turkish aggression and it's good to see them fight back. They ought to have Constantinopoulos returned to them ON THE DOUBLE!!!

WAAAAHHHHHH.. WHERE'S THE UN?????!!!!!!

Greek Gurl l think turks marched in, becuase you Greeks love to dance and sing and drink too much. you love freedom and life, and women dont cover themselves up.. like all things nonmuslims, they hate.

pissedofcanadian Oben d'Imishte is abvously one of the Turk lovers his trying to imply it was Greek Cypriots or maybe his a Turk

zenawarriorprincess well i might agree with you there but igorant people like oben d' imishte dont understand

May God protect him. But I do believe that if he were to be killed, it would convert more to our anti-jihad cause.

zenawarriorprincess well i might agree with you there but igorant people like oben d' imishte dont understand

Posted by: Greek Gurl

Greek Gurl.. Oben is not ignorant at all. He's a turk. trust me - I can smell a turk from miles away. Or should I say "kilometres"?

I grew up in Germany - hence my name on JW - and I never understood why both the Greeks and the turks would tell a little German kid how much they hated each other. And noone I asked could - I should say WOULD - tell me which ones were the GOOD GUYS!! Damn it took me way to long to figure this out on my own! But now that I know... I KNOW!!!

The things that are slowly learned surely are hard-earned.

germaninamerica i was thinking exactly the same thing as you the name sounds turkish.

People aslo use to ask me why greeks and turks hated each other i just told them the truth

You guys.. I am listening to I Hate America Radio.. there's hockey and basketball where there's normally Laura and Michael... how nice of the MSM to entertain the brutes with panem et circenses.
Circenses at least :-)

ANY TALK SHOW HOSTS READING THIS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO USE THE TERM: "Air I Hate America".

Damn, they are a demoralizing bunch. Their MAIN concern is Guantanamo Bay - NOT what these inmates are doing to our guardian personnell... OH NO!!!

This phony-sounding Laura Flanders [what an abuse of the name Laura] with her little English accent that is designed to make little white liberals follow her goose-stepping down the jihadist cliffs like Euro-lemmings.. THAT Laura F*** has the NERVE to pontificate with some dhimmi American "human rights" bitch" about how badly the United States is treating these "men" as she keeps calling them.. oh they are just SOOO beardedly cuddly jihadists!! SOOOOO ceeewwte!!

Damn I love me the Israeli women i've met! No matter how liberal they all have a healthy reserve toward the enemy. The fatc they are nice to me [German] should be more than proof that thes are NOT resentful or nasty people in any way. They're simply smart in being able to figure foe from friend in a split second! And they look WAY better than any prune-dry dhimmi biotch I've ever seen!

I can't believe now they have a discussion on "I hate America".. Gore vs. Hitlery.. OH BWAIIII....!!!!!

What the heck is the Pope doing going to Turkey? There are a few Catholics there, but aren't most, nearly all, Christians there Orthodox? What is Benedict going to accomplish? Make new friends?

The best thing the West can do for Turkey is to reclaim it.

Posted by: Seymour Paine

What he will accomplish is to let moslems showcase themselves as.. :-) [ drumroll.. ] ... moslems!! :-) just let the momobots do their thang!

Song and dance in the streets of Konstantinopoulos! :-)

He's old but NOT stupid.

This will be the mufti-World-Expo!!! A true showcase of tolerance.. a FEST of LOVE! The welcoming of a Great Spritual Leader from the West where so any of the islamics are "immigrating to" in apparent "rejection" of their own societies? We know the truth, but.. empty chuckle here...

Remember the old vampire movies and you put a crufix in ol' Cracul's face? Remember the vampire's reaction to that!

[actually i've read up on old Dracul - aka VLAD THE IMPALER and it looks like he's been getting a BAD RAP!!] He impaled turkish forces laying siege to his lands - thus keeping them from further advance - but that's another story!]

Put the Holy spirit in their face and see what WILL HAPPEN!! This Pope is noothing less than a WORLD EXORCIST!!

They'll be spitting more than pea soup. LOL

JUST WATCH AND LEARN!

Re: "God willing, this will be a spark, a starter for Muslims ... God willing, he will not come. If he comes, he will see what will happen to him," the 26-year-old Turk told the TV cameras as he was led away in handcuffs.

As Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot by just watching".

As Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot by just watching".

Posted by: Frank

didn't Yogi also say: "every thing is half mental"?

That would sound like an apt description of the muftis to me.

errr...juss thought i'd drop this link off for u, Roobart.
Al Azhar University Outlaws Female Circumcision
so u know who to give props to.
=)

Posted by: matoko kusanagi

Does anyone smell a TROLL...???
PS. Who is 'Roobart'?

The Pope is crazy going to Turkey, maybe he wants to become a martyr. Not with all the Papaphobia going around these days.

Posted by: Cyberray

CRAZY like a FOX! Trust NOONE!! He's putting his life on the line FOR ALL OF US!!!

Ain't nothing gonna happen to the pope. And if it did, all that would happen would be a bunch of hand wringing. And most people would blame America, because everyone knows the muzzlims are peaceful.

May God protect him. But I do believe that if he were to be killed, it would convert more to our anti-jihad cause.

Posted by: TheVoiceofTruth

WE are NOT islamists. WE don't sacrifice the LOWEST nor the HIGHEST among us for the CAUSE. Our cause is JUST and our CAUSE is that NOONE is to be sacrificed for any cause. That includes the Pope, GODDAMMIT!!

He is talking a calculated risk.. that is a strategical maneouvre of his choice. However.. I for one am NOT rooting for his death so we can gather "Momentum for the Cause"!!

The Pope is not only the Spiritual Leader of millions of Catholics and Christians worldwide - the Pope is also a Human Being.

Let us not lower ourselves please!

I pray for the Pontiff's safety. I am not a Catholic nor am I a Christian - but the longer I think about this this Pope is facaing down the Devil himself! Let us not root for his demise!

His safe return to safety at home should inspire us more than anything! Who among us would have such GUTS??!!! And at almost 80 yo??!!!

For crying out LOUD! I can't bear this thinking!

If the Pope is murdered on his trip, the only backlash will be a stream of condolences from Western leaders, accompanied by impassioned speeches about how the peaceful Islamic religion has been hyjacked by misquided extremists who don't understand the true teachings of Islam.
As for Muslim leaders, they say basically the same thing, and all the while their citizens will be celebrating in the streets as they did on 9/11.
But you can be certain of one thing, no one will have the couurage to be honest.

posted
"[actually i've read up on old Dracul - aka VLAD THE IMPALER and it looks like he's been getting a BAD RAP!!] He impaled turkish forces laying siege to his lands - thus keeping them from further advance - but that's another story!]"

germaninamerica

That's right. A co-worker is romanian and told me once that Vlad Dracul is a national hero for fighting to a standstill the Ottoman horde.

Back on topic. The Pope knows what he's doing. Even if nothing happens to him physichally, the whole world will be watching the modern day ottomans strut their stuff.

Europe doesn't want European workers

Ummah News Links

Back on topic. The Pope knows what he's doing. Even if nothing happens to him physichally, the whole world will be watching the modern day ottomans strut their stuff.

Posted by: Paladin3000

That's what I am talking about! The Pope deserved better than for any among us to root for his demise. Even if it were to be for propagandist gain. THAT is the way our enemies conduct their campaign against US.

They send children and grandmothers into battle. They use them as human shields and as susicide bombers.

Our Pope is neither a human shield nor a suicide bomber. If anything he is a human shield against islamic aggression.

Just like John Wayne didn't mindlessly shoot all over the place.. he made sure to give the enemy every chance to back down. In fact he let it be known that he'd rather avoid violence if the enemy allowed him. But once the enemy left no way out - it was ON!

germaninamerica i was thinking exactly the same thing as you the name sounds turkish.

People aslo use to ask me why greeks and turks hated each other i just told them the truth

Posted by: Greek Gurl

Greek Gurl..

sorry I didn't use my brain back then.. i was but a little kid and these smelly old men all were yelling at me "Grieche nix gutt" and "turkey nix gutt!!" Not at the same time mind you :-)

The Greeks seemed to be a little nicer though but it was really hard for me to know why they were all in Germany hating one another so much. Not that German school was any help in figuring it out. nor were the adults. They didn't want to "talk about it" when I asked things like: "Daddy why do the Turks hate the Greeks so much?". Same dad who calls me a nazi because now I am asking questions why is immigration good for Germany and the other European countries? Why do we let moslems build mosks when they don't allow Churches and Synagogues to be built in their lands?

What am I missing?

Call it the Generation Gap?

I think the Islams are very cunning and astute and recognize that the time is not yet ripe for such a bold stroke as killing the Pope. It would not be in their interest because it would dovetail too strongly with other recent high-profile acts - 9/11 to be sure, but also Theo van Gogh, the Paris riots, cartoon-gate, etc. They want to leave some semblance of plausible deniability for Western liberals to cling to, until it is too late.. in 20 years?? 50??

But we don't want to see him on our soil because of the remarks he made about Islam's Prophet Muhammad on Sept. 12 and for not apologizing afterward.
what is the pope apoligizing for you just have to look at the christion byzantin empire and the savagry that the muslim invaders showed to the peaple of constandnople for daring to resist the muslim attack

The best thing to do is to pray for the success of the mission of the Pope to visit the Patriarch of Constantinople.

"As a student of history I can only say...

Archduke Franz Ferdinand
Sarajevo
Jun 28th 1914

We know the rest of the story....."

Exactly.

Benedict shouldn't be meeting with those people.
Christianity and Islam are irreconcilable.

Now that I think of it, Islam is irreconcilable with any other religion on the planet.

one million bucks says if the pope gets wasted, the retarded pelosi will blame it on bush.

hi abad. humans that they think there gang is better than the other. holy sh8t im not very old. do we all regress in intelligence as we get older?

pissedoffcanadian wrote:
"Yes Oben d'imsihte all muslim atrocities have been incited by evil christians thank you for putting to rest the myth of muslim violence."

I did not generalize, you did. I am not claiming for all; I just wanted to inquire about a single case which I had lived through as a child. Call it propaganda or whatever, I saw too many pictures of Turks killed violently by the Greeks. Of course, the pictures of Greeks killed by Turks were never shown to me. I belive the Western World got the opposite treatment, for else they would be somewhat fair.

bigcatgirl13106 wrote:
"Folks, just ignore any and all trolls."

Guys, you can't ignore trolls, just as you can't ignore terrorists. (Though they operate in much different ways.) It's for your own good not to ignore them (trolls, I mean), for, by their differing thoughts, they're helping you to improve yours. What distinguishes a troll like me from the terrorist analogy above is that I would stop posting if Robert Spencer told me to. I am civilized enough not to disturb people. But, do you REALLY want this?... For it would be a one sided action lacking most of the fun, as masturbation comapred to sex.

Greek Gurl wrote:
"they marched in Cyprus becuase of same reason why they took constantinople they are nationlist and want to make Cyprus turkish"

Not exactly. Taking Constantinople was an offensive move while invading Cyprus was meant for defense. Defending two different parties: 1- Turks in Cyprus (who were having a 'somewhat hard time' drowning in their own blood. Go see the Museum of Barbarianship in Lefkosa. The Cypriots were killing Turkish women and children for Christmas celebrations in 1963.) 2- Anatolia (For Enosis was unacceptable for the Turkish Republic as it would give a definite military advanage to Greece.)

germaninamerica wrote:
"Whatever the amount of turks they killed - How does that compare to all the people killed by the turks???!!!!!"

So, Turks (since they are Muslims) are worthless. Kill as many as you want, it's like zero multiplied by infinity!... You can't expect people to stay reactionless against being killed, right?

germaninamerica wrote:
"WAAAAHHHHHH.. WHERE'S THE UN?????!!!!!!"

I'd heard this cry before!..
...While the Muslim women were being raped in Bosnia... I guess...

Greek Gurlwrote:
"Oben d'Imishte is abvously one of the Turk lovers his trying to imply it was Greek Cypriots or maybe his a Turk"

Oben d'Imishte is a Turk but not necessarily a Turk lover (which should be obvious from his posts so far). Let's call him a Muslim lover.

germaninamerica, I don't hate Greeks. Actually, my lab partner in the US was a very cool Greek guy. I am sure he didn't hate me either. Of course, I cannot generalize for either side.

Greek Gurlwrote:
"germaninamerica i was thinking exactly the same thing as you the name sounds turkish."

Obviously you don't speak Turkish and are not familiar with Turkish names.

germaninamerica wrote:
"Oben is not ignorant at all."

Thank you.

Please read about the third prediction at Fatima.

BTW, did the Turks slaughter the Armenians or not?

More important than the pope's comments are the degree of violent response.

The islamists always complain that Israel has caused diproportionate response to hezbollah attacks and many lebanese died as a result of those rocket attacks.

But they are not answering why a simple statement of pope has caused violent reprisals by arabs and persians in their homecountries.

Why punjabi invaders in kashmir held a violent rally to condemn pope's remarks. Why terrorists from punjab and arabia are constantly bloodthirsty for pope's blood.

This is the question which must be addressed.

Why is US having cordial relations with Saudis and Punjabis while they continue to finance and train the jihadis all over the world.

Unfortunately, the truth about what happened in Cyprus in 1974 was that there was no right side. On the one side there was a military Greek government of torturers and murderers - the so-called Colonels - who had driven out the king of Greece and had no legitimacy at all, which plotted with the Greeks of Cyprus to annexate the island to Greece, thus giving itself some much-needed validation in the face of an increasingly exasperated Greek public. On the other there was an equally brutal and ruthless Turkish government - I do not recall whether it was parliamentary or military at the time, but it hardly matters, because ever since Kemal Ataturk the Army had been the godfather of Turkish politics and nothing took place without its consent. The illegal Greek government was hated the length and breadth of Europe, and the attempted enosis was, as I recall it, received with universal horror and disgust. When it collapsed under the blows of a Turkish force, followed by the collapse of the "Colonels" in Athens, the general reaction was, if not relief, that the Colonels and their accomplices had asked for it. However, it quickly became clear that the Turks had intervened not to defend the independence of Cyprus, but to enforce a sectarian division of the island; at which point, the indignation and anger of Europe switched from the Greeks - by now safely in democratic hands - to the Turks, whose false pretences were now obvious, and who absolutely refused to surrender the swag. From then till now, nobody has ever accepted the Turkish occupation of north-east Cyprus, and the pressure on the obstinate Turks to allow the island to be unified has been constant. It is no fault of Europe that the Turks have refused even though they should know that this made their long-desired admission into the EU impossible.

And that brings me back to the subject of this blog. I think we have here, once again, an example of the mental pathology that Islam generates even in people where its influence is reduced. The Turks want everything and its opposite. They want to be allowed to exclude Christians from their polity, and they want to be called a tolerant and loving people. They want to be admitted to the EU, and they want to go on holding what they stole from a member in good standing of the EU (Cyprus). They want to be liked, and they want to be feared. Their behaviour is cleary pathological, and condemns them - like all Muslims - to everlasting, seething frustration. Both Greece and Cyprus have complied with EU demands, setting aside their own gripes with Europe and accepting that if you want to join a club you have to play by the rules. But for the Turks, that is impossible, because, even if Europe were willing to bend the rules for them, one simply does not know in what direction to bend them: what they say they want simply does not make sense.

Partial translation of the third secret of Fatima:

we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

"Does anyone believe there will be serious backlash if a muslim Turk kills the Pope?"
Posted by: americaningermany
------

"I'm guessing a new Crusade, what about you?"
Posted by: EliasAlucard

"Elias you are way too optimistic."
Posted by: germaninamerica
------

Yeah, perhaps I am. This isn't the 11th century when Europe was almost entirely a Catholic/Orthodox Christian continent, Europe has abandoned Christianity at this point and isn't united anymore (I consider the EU to be a big political lie, so it doesn't count) when it comes to fighting islam.

Either way, I don't want the Pope killed by the turks since I'm Catholic myself and I actually like this Pope (I read somewhere that he's going to allow condoms, great move!). But I won't be surprised if some muslim shoots him when he visits turkey.

And like many of JihadWatch readers have already pointed out, it will probably be this we hear from the leftist media: "Oh he had it coming, it's his own fault. Don't blame the muslims for killing him, it was just an extremist minority. It's wrong to generalise."

Hilarious Muslim newspeak. e.g.,

"The Popemust aplogise for calling Islam a violent religion or we Muslims will be violent during his vist to Turkey."

Alucard - that piece of rank rubbish about softening rules on condoms is a regular fantasy of the non-Catholic press - resurrected most recently by the Anglican journalist Ruth Gledhill in England. It has always been wrong, it is wrong now, it will remain wrong. It is not going to happen, end of story, and if you think it would be a good move, then I suggest you move to the Lutherans, because you have a weird idea of what church dogma means.

StillFedUp: as I recall, the Turkish invasion of 1974 was justified by the Turks having signed a treaty guaranteeing the independence of Cyprus, which the Greek attempt at annexation violated. That is probably also why they set up a puppet government in the occupied territory instead of annexating it outright: that way they could pretend - though not very convincingly - that they had not violated the independence of Cyprus, rather that it was Cyprus itself that had broken asunder, and now there were two Cypruses instead of one. Of course, everyone saw through that little game from the word go, but the Turks still insist.

Just remember that it never matters what the Muslims say, because it is part of their strategy, as learned from Muhammad himself and dictated in the Koran, to always fight a "defensive" struggle. This deception works for them. They must always act as if they are reacting to some insult, some provocation, some intrusion -- even though 99% of the time it is complete fabrication or a twisting of the facts. Islamic traditions are quite clear that it is not only necessary but expected for deception and lies to be used to constantly put the enemy off-balance.

Deception is a critical part of warfare, but the outright lies and hypocrisy are not. Sane and aware and learned people around the globe see right through their tirades like cellophane, but this doesn't stop members of the jihad, not even for an instant. It actually intensifies their resolve because with their lies and lack of our own stellar communications systems and free speech and press, they get their own people believing the propaganda that is intended not only for the enemy, but for the gullible fanatics within.

If we would get over this ridiculous fear of "inflaming the Islamic world" and just declare war on the people that have so obviously declared jihad on the rest of us, we could win in Iraq. The first stage would be to surprise the mujahideen as they run up the steps of the closest mosque -- and follow them inside with flamethrowers and explosives and flatten the unholy place and them along with it!!

You want to send a message to people that only understand violence and force, you don't do it by trying to be nice -- you do it by "shock and awe" and showing the grim resolve necessary to kill and defeat your enemies.

So far, we aren't even close to doing what's needed, and this is exactly why the jihad gets worse.

Paolo, what's wrong with condoms? If condoms are allowed in Italy then they should be allowed in Africa too.

Oh and for the record, I'm not a devout Catholic. I was baptised in the Catholic church as a child, and I believe in Jesus as the son of God and God incarnate, but I don't swallow everything the Catholic church does (for example, kissing the quran). So don't shove this dogma stuff down my throat.

What you people have not thinked about is what would happen if someone try to kill the Pope and he fail.
The last pope was near killed from Agca, but it recovered.
How many times TV and press talk about the Holy Spirit intervention to save his life? And the intercession of May? Many, many, many.

The reaction would be slow, but if they start to kill a head of state, other heads of state will take note of this. The pope is a high rank target, and other high rank target will react at his death.

The same would happen if a muslim try to kill Bush or Blair or Prodi. It is not the man, it is the position that is "sacred".
An attack to the pope is an attack to all Catholics and Christians as and attack to the President of the USA is an attack to the USA. And so it will be treated.

@ USBEAST

"So take me back to Constantinople. No, you can't go back to Constantinple. It's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks."

Istanbul (Not Constantinople) written by Jimmy Kennedy and Nat Simon.

It was originally performed by The Four Lads in a recording made on August 12, 1953.

The song was later famously covered by the rock group They Might Be Giants, who released it on their LP Flood in 1990, and on its own EP that same year.

Now the crunch !!!!!!

The lyrics humorously remind the listener the change of the name of the city Constantinople to the Turkish name of Istanbul, professing uncertainty about how and why the names of cities change.

paolo quoted

"Unfortunately, the truth about what happened in Cyprus in 1974 was that there was no right side. On the one side there was a military Greek government of torturers and murderers - the so-called Colonels - who had driven out the king of Greece and had no legitimacy at all, which plotted with the Greeks of Cyprus to annexate the island to Greece, thus giving itself some much-needed validation in the face of an increasingly exasperated Greek public"

Greeks before 1974 at the time wanted to unify Cyprus with Greece as greek Cypriots where the majority on the island and they voted for that democraticaly for eonises which means union in greek the Turkish Cypriots on the island did not like that dispite the fact that turkish Cypriots had lots of power in the goverment they wanted more they wanted to take over the police force in Cyprus the turkish Cypriots wanted to have more rights then the Greeks so they set up a terrorist group called tmt and started killing greek Cypriots the turkish Cypriots wanted Turkey to invade from the beginning and as a result there was bloodshed but only 400 turkish Cypriots where killed by eoka (who did not represent all Greek Cypriots) compared to the 6000 Greek Cypriots killed by the turkish invasion

paolo quoted

"Not exactly. Taking Constantinople was an offensive move while invading Cyprus was meant for defense. Defending two different parties: 1- Turks in Cyprus (who were having a 'somewhat hard time' drowning in their own blood. Go see the Museum of Barbarianship in Lefkosa. The Cypriots were killing Turkish women and children for Christmas celebrations in 1963.) 2- Anatolia (For Enosis was unacceptable for the Turkish Republic as it would give a definite military advanage to Greece.)"

that is a untrue Turks invading Cyprus in 1571 was exaclty the same as turks taking constantinople when the ottomans invaded Cyprus in 1571 20,000 greek Cypriots where slaughtered alone in nicosia

and in 1963 the Greek Cypriot women and kids where also being killed by the turkish Cypriot tmt how comes you dont mention that? or the thousands of Greek Cypriot women and who where raped and killed by the turkish invading army and how 6000 Cypriots where masscared in 1974 yes turkish Cypriots where killed by eoka but only 500 where killed which is not much compared to the 6000 greek Cypriotsthat turkey killed.

I find it really hypocritical that people like paolo and Oben d'Imishte have double standards they justfy the Turk muslims burning churches and killing Greek Cypriots in 1974 and when we tried to defend ourselfs from the turks people like paolo and oben blame us then paolo and oben say they are against terroism and islam spreading in the west and its ok for them to defend themselfs but its not ok for us Greek Cypriots to do so before 1974. Why is that paolo and oben are you western christians more important then us orthodox christians ? why are you allowed to defend yourselfs from terrorist islam and want to be called heros but when us greek Cypriot orthodox christians tried to defend ourselfs before 1974 you call usbutchers ? as far as I am concerned your hypocrites and just as bad as the muslims and your also anti christian to

AmericaninGermany my pleasure. These forums are for the wide awake not the fast asleep! :oD

STILLFEDUP QUOTE
allies, I am in italy and you can imagine how TV and press went on this matter for YEARS AND YEARS cos that turkish fucker has been jailed in italy for many years.

This idiot was playing with the press for decades saying idiotic things like "I am jesus christ" and stuff.

-------

Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner stillfedup I am skimming all these threads during my time off like a madman and sometimes I miss some names. Yes I remember that nutcase, I notice even in his madness he wasnt stupid enough to say "Im Muhammed reborn!" I guess even he knew what the jihadists would do to himm.

About the trollfest okay Ill try to get them on new stuff hahaha and email everybody to join in. If these trolls are honest at all --they should be reeling from all the info Robert Spencer puts on here and all the stuff we mention and even link too. But I wonder about these trolls: I think they are determined to stay asleep until at least Iran starts bombing parts of the West as Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu said on the Glen Beck show recently.

STILLFEDUP I just emailed you (sorry for the delay I havent checked my email since 23rd! eeee,)

The Greeks know all about Turkey and the people dont want partnerships with them because they know what that means. Turkey is 99% and always act in a "shiira" style and narcisstic manner towards Greece and other western countries (even America was prevented from using its airspace in the second gulf war and so Americans asked and recieved permission to fly over Greek airspace--that shows you the difference right there).

This Paolo character has a suspiciously omniscient eye toward relative equivalency and gymnastic nuance every time he palpates events of history.

"Unfortunately, the truth about what happened in Cyprus in 1974 was that there was no right side. On the one side there was a military Greek government of torturers and murderers - the so-called Colonels - who had driven out the king of Greece and had no legitimacy at all...etc. etc. yada yada"

I trust Greek Gurl more.

stillfedup no i am not in Greece i am Greek Cypriot and i am not in Cyprus either but before 1974 my family where forced out of there homes in Cyprus and my dad was held prisoner by the turks my dad was a young teenager at the time he did nothing wrong to any turks but ignorant people like paolo and oben blame people like my dad and mum for having there property stolen and call us butchers well my parnets did not kill or harm any turkish at the time they just woke up one morning and next thing my dad knew turkish soilders where forcing him out of his home and prisoned him but lucky he escaped from that prison or he would probably be dead or missing.

as for what is going on in Greece I dont know whats happening in Greece either but i know that turkey is still claiming the aegean islands and still contunues to invade greek airspace

correction in my last post I meant to say "Turkey is 99%" MUSLIM and always acts in a..."

By the way the most ANTI-Turkish govt guy I know is an exmuslim turkish guy! Of course he loves his people but he gets in a rage at the thought of Islam. I mean A RAGE. He told me several times "islam wasted my life" and that "Turkey is a one coup away from being a Islamic Republic" and "Turkey should never be let into EU" and EVEN "I dont believe in any religion but Id rather have all of Turkey Christian then any other faith. At least Christians dont freak out on you if you leave their faith and go agnostic on them" (His family was to put it mildly not happy with his decision. According to Islamic Quranic laws the father has to kill him now. I dont think he will or anything (honor killings are not uncommon there though thats for sure) but His parents have told him he is "dead to him" My friend laughs bitterly at this since they were never particularly religious but you leave Muhammeds faith and they "will freak on you".

Who will kill the pope in Istanbul, indeed.

americaningermany wrote:
"Why should we be familiar with Turkish names?
Why should we speak Turkish?
Is Turkey the new center of the world?"

NO to all of these, of course! I was saying that for Greek Gurl only, for she had commented on my name. (BTW Turkish is a terrible language in terms of word order. English is much better and easier.)

Paolo, great brief on the Cyprus issue. Thanx.

Greek Gurl,
I am not being hypocritical. I AM a Muslim (thank God), if you have not noticed yet. BTW can you give an example of Turkey's claiming the islands? (Any records from the National Assembly or some diplomatic talk?) As far as I know Turkey and Greece recognizes each other's land borders. However, Turkey will call it a war starter if Greece declares 12 miles on the sea.

StillFedUp wrote:
"As always you don't respect treaties done with infidels."

Spend your next holiday on (some of) the Greek islands which are supposed to be unarmed according to the treaties...
(Paolo has already answered for the treatywise justification of Turkey's marching in.)

THE ALLIES SHALL WIN,

Speaking about reality of Muslims possibly freaking out, yesterday went to a home game of my home state's flagship university's football team ( in the end they lost and now are out of bowl contention ), there was a contest to raise money for a scholarship fund for students who attend my hometown's public high school. For $1 a jug, vote to have with a picture next to each jug, local community leaders, local newspaper editors, ete., if voted the winner, would be required to kiss a pig. If any Muslim was going to see that, could they have ended up freaking out?

PS To The Poster Above That I Had Posted To, Allies :

Forgot to mentioned that it is for a college scholarship(s).

painlord2k,

Good comments. Also take into consideration that any effort to bring harm to the Pope, and you are right to say that he is not only the head of a major Christian church, but also because of the Vatican City state, head of a nation. This could end up not only bringing about the condemmnation from other nations, but also just actions would be taken. One such action would be deniel of Turkey's addition into the EU bigtime.

The proof of the pudding is the swift reaction of condemmnation after last week's assasination one of the minister's of Lebanon's governing back, an anti-Syrian control critic by a member of Hezbozallah.

Oben d'Imishte: I can do without your gratitude, since you are clearly misrepresenting what I said. What I said was that Turkey used that treaty as an excuse to wreak its own criminal will on Cyprus. As a result, no country in the world has ever accepted the legitimacy of Turkish actions. The Greeks tried to commit a crime; the Turks succeeded in committing a much bigger one. That is the difference.

Alucard: right, you're not Catholic. Anyone who talks with such complacent, insolent presumption about dogma (which is nothing more than the bare minimum you have to accept to call yourself a Catholic at all) has no notion whatsoever what Catholicism is. As for the prohibition on condoms, where did you get the notion that Italy - an independent country which was created in part by taking away the Pope's kingdom - has its laws written by the Pope? In a few sentences, you have manage to annoy me as a Catholic and offend me as an Italian patriot. Please, stop opening your mouth about what you know nothing of.

Remote_control: moral equivalency yourself. I just like to know what I am talking about. If you knew how to read, you would realize that I have not actually even said anything that contradicted anything that Greekgurl wrote; I just gave an account of aspects of the story which she may not have known. She knows of the obscenity of Turkish occupation from family traditions, but she may not be aware that the murderous Colonels and their accomplices in Cyprus (who overthrew the legal government) brought upon the unfortunate Cypriots the very horror of Turkish invasion she describes. That the Turks were and remain criminals does not deny that the Colonels were criminals as well. And since people here admire my fellow countrywoman Oriana Fallaci, I suggest you read her account of her lover, who was arrested, tortured and nearly murdered by the Colonels.

Contrary to popular belief, we shall not beat Islam by being worse than they are; and not everyone who is an enemy of a Muslim is, for that reason alone, a white-fledged angel. The Colonels were criminals. They were stupid, too: they started a war they had no chance of winning, and their stupid actions resulted in Turkey being left in murderous possession, from which nothing has been able to remove them since. And ever since then, Cyprus has had to pay for their dishonesty.

Opps, folks should have said in the previous posting, a Christian minister of Lebanon's governing body.

Oben d'Imishte quotes

"Greek Gurl,
I am not being hypocritical. I AM a Muslim (thank God), if you have not noticed yet. BTW can you give an example of Turkey's claiming the islands? (Any records from the National Assembly or some diplomatic talk?) As far as I know Turkey and Greece recognizes each other's land borders. However, Turkey will call it a war starter if Greece declares 12 miles on the sea."

your a muslim that says it all lol. By the way Greece doest have to declare nothing its not only the 12 miles of sea that belongs to greece its fonstantinople and most of Turkey that belongs to Greece you turks belong in mongolia where you first came from TUrkey was a state built on genocide of Greeks and armenians but dont worry Oben we will take it all back one day

A few months ago, Oben D'Imishte wrote here at Jihad Watch:

"Islam is a religion of peace at peace time. You naturally fight during war time. (Or do you turn the other cheek?) But I said 'war time'."

So tell me Oben: who determines when it is peace time, and when it is war time?

And how are "peace time" and "war time" to be defined?

And who defines them?

It seems that innumerable Muslims all over the globe are at best fudging the line between the two, if they haven't already decided that it is, indeed, "war time".

Who are you, Oben, to tell those of your brothers and sisters that they are wrong?

paolo so you are justifying turks killing 6000 greeks in cyprus becuase Oriana Fallaci lover was killed by Greek colonals? well oriana fallaci lover was greek infact. my Point is You cant justify Turkey killing 6000 Greeks or raping women just because of that if you do then your no better then a islamic facist you really are no better then the muslims turks go and kiss your muslim boyfreind Oben d'Imishte

Paolo writes with his characteristic gift of divine prophecy:

"Contrary to popular belief, we shall not beat Islam by being worse than they are..."

First of all, we cannot possibly be worse than Muslims, since they occupy the ethical nadir, a nadir uniquely structured by their unique belief-system.

Second of all, do you consider Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Tokyo fire-bombing to have been examples of the good guys descending to the level of the evil enemy? If you do, then we know where you stand: anti-West. If you don't, then remember what terrible and horrible acts those were that we, the good guys, tragically had to do to fight evil; and not only did we not become evil in doing so, we have -- save for the single glaring and paradoxical exception of the development of the PC disease -- continued to progress ethically, socially, politically, intellectually, technologically and scientifically since then.

"right, you're not Catholic."
Posted by Paolo
------

Paolo, now you're just being arrogant. Who are you to tell me what and who I am? If you think that being against condoms makes you a genuine Catholic, you're wrong. The Catholic church has done a big mistake in not allowing condoms, and people have died in AIDS as an indirect result of it, this has only damaged Catholicism and made people more hateful of Christianity.

By the way, does it actually matter if you're Italian? Catholicism is spread throughout the world. You Italians don't have a monopoly on it last I checked.

Also, you have to understand that not all Catholics are devout Catholics. There are some of us who don't take it as seriously as the rest of you, but we still believe in God and his son Jesus, as it is taught in the Catholic creed, and that's the most important part.

if voted the winner, would be required to kiss a pig. If any Muslim was going to see that, could they have ended up freaking out?
Posted by: bigcatgirl1310
---

ah yes ! lol. At least they would have been accused of being 'intolerant Americans' My friend Bulent (exmuslim turkish guy) makes a point of eating pork.
We were once in a restaurant enjoying this roasted pork dinner (Bulent, myself and our ladies) and Bulent wanted to take some in a 'doggie bag' to offer to muslims on their way out of mosque services. His girl had to beg him continually not to do it (she is a beautiful exmuslim Morrocan girl). He just laughed and said, "God I hate those bastards for wasting my life" I have to admit I thought it was over the top. But I have seen that the most anti-Islam people are ones who are exmuslim, ones like Ali Sina, and my friend who grew up in it. I mean this guy wanted to go around to muslims and say "smell this pork mmmm good huh!!!" oh maaan. "We have to be aggressive with them trust me I used to be one of them. God they all need to eat a good ham sandwich and some wine and they'll all recover." He is really a "wild and crazy guy" a la saturday night live type. lol

This was near the " Madinah Masjid " in east toronto
(website here http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014184.php#comments (they are trying to get funds to build a second story now)

----

by the way try to "unarm" Texans and what do you think you'll get? No matter what the 'local laws' say. You'll get a head full of lead. Greek islanders are very much the 'Texans' of Greece especially in the eastern islands where Turkish invasions have known to happen and violation of hellenic airspace against all EU rules happens on a weekly basis.

-

sorry the link above is wrong one"

the mosques website i referred to was here:

http://www.madinahmasjid.org/

germaninamerica wrote:
"Oben is not ignorant at all."

Thank you.

Posted by: Oben d'Imishte

I assume you aren't ignorant of the turkish genocide of the Armenians. secnd.. if millions of Germans moved into turkey and behaved like a bunch of respectless pigs.. I BET you'd be pretty pissed off too!! How should I like the turks in my country who are acting like an occupying army aided by a German Vichy government!!

"My friend Bulent (exmuslim turkish guy)..."

He sounds like a cool guy. I think a better movie than Borat would be one about your friend --

Bulent: Cultural Learnings of Infidels for Make Expose Filthy Nation of Islam.

I must remember never to let myself be drawn into debate on this forum again.

Alucard: you do not have the least and slightest idea of what being Catholic means. Being Catholic means accepting the dogmas of the Church as true; you treat them with contempt. You are also deeply ignorant. Your statements about condoms are mass media boilerplate to which anyone who had given the issue (and the Catholic side) any attention at all would know the answers, even where he disagreed. You simply take the cant of newspapers for truth, and congratulate yourself on your great insight. And you do not know how to read. I never said that I could judge your attitudes to the Church by being Italian; I said I could judge them by being Catholic, as any other Catholic in any other part of the world could. Believe me, there are American blogs where your attitude would have got you a roasting you can't even imagine. I did, however say, that I can judge your ignorant, arrogant, racist Swedish attitude to Italy from being an Italian. You said that the laws of Italy are written by the Vatican; that is the only explanation of your statement - which you made, so do not try to escape your responsibility - that according to the Church the use of condoms is right in Italy and wrong elsewhere. The Italian parliament decides as it pleases, and the Pope does not give them orders, whatever your provincial media may have got you to believe. You are both ignorant and vain, and your only excuse is that you are too ignorant to realize how ignorant you are.

Greek Gurl: you are too stupid to even realize when someone is on your side. So let us try to use language you understand. Who the FUCK ever said that the Cypriots deserved what the Turkish "criminals" - the word I used for them - did to them? What I said was the exact opposite: that because of the stupid and illegal actions of a few murderous military morons in Athens and their equally criminal accomplices in Cyprus, the country was handed over to its worst enemies. Does this mean that the average Cypriot "deserved" anything of what happened? It means, you complete idiot, the opposite: it means that a few murderers caused the nation to suffer. I blamed the Colonels and them alone. Learn to read, you little idiot, before you alienate even those who are on your side. And since, unlike you, I know how to read, I knew the nationality of Oriana Fallaci's lover before you were born.

Great God in heaven. Is there NOBODY on this thread with either manners or education?

I expect that nothing happens. But the consequences of the killing would be minimal. The world hates christianism and the catholicism in particular for allowing that people had a bad opinion about islam and a good about Papacy. The new world order thinks that islam is better, why? easy, because it´s a joke of religion and it´s very easy to attack. The christianism, however, is different, rational, and the truth, simple. For this it´s dangerous. And the christianism must be supressed and politicians, and mass media support the islam for this.

Yeah okay Paolo, I'm sure you're the most flawless Catholic out there.

Anyway: 20,000 Turks protest at pope visit

Guys surely we are all on the same side here:

Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Evangelicals, Atheists, Orthodox jews, Reform Jews, Hindus, Buddishts, Athiests, etc English, Italian, Greek, French, American, Canadaian, Aussie, etc ---> If Islam takes over nobody will have any democracy to live in to practice (or not practice) their faith or thier freedom of speech.

Believe me our ever smiling 'friends' at CAIR and extreme muslim groups out there just LOVE it when those gawrsh dawrn infidels argue amongst themselves. I half expect that Naseem will come on here with her "see? you should all become muslims now and they're would be peace!" shpeel. Of course Islams 'peace' is the peace of Shiria law, and the silence of the oppressed, and the quietude of the grave for democratic freedoms.

Paolo, EliasAlucard, Greek Gurl surely we are all on the same side here. Paolo yes you are on the side of the good I see that. bUt calling Greek girl and idiot? Greek Gurl he was supporting you.
Alucard Paolo I know Catholics of all stripes what I (personally) like about them is they dont strap bombs to their asses and shout allah aacbkar.. Come on guys please we are all on the same side here.

Lets all have some nice cold Canadian beer now --Im buyin'. Cheers.

PS here is an interesting note. When Robert Spencer and Ali Sina where going to attend something together: Islamic groups tried sending fraudulant emails to them so that Ali and robert's alliance (and friendlship) would be wrecked (the old divide and conquer which Muhammed and other such muslim leaders would try). It didnt work of course. Spencer and Sina are just to smart for that. I think Robert Spencer himself would tell you more about that it was on here a few months ago I believe as a post.

aHA !! I found the article! Its here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006233.php

My point is Islamics love it when you fight amongst yourselves --they want to see any alliance (the ALLIES!) against them quarral amongst themselves and forget the real enemy. The sniveling smiling spectre of hate that now looms over the free world. Their allah ackbar is their seig heil of our timee. Please please dont forget this!

By the way Robert Spencer is Roman Catholic
Ali Sina is agnostic

(me Im Eastern Orthodox-Greek branch)

we all want the freedoms that democracy brings to remain in our lands thats why I hope we can in the spirit of true brotherly love cooperate and STOP this tricky sneaks from taking over the free world.

ALLIES, I'm not even trying to argue. Of course we're all on the same side. Paolo here is the problem. He's calling me a "Swedish racist" (which is ridiculous since I'm neither Swedish nor racist). He's calling Greek Gurl idiot, moron and so on. He's calling me ignorant, etc. Then he has the audacity to write this:

"Great God in heaven. Is there NOBODY on this thread with either manners or education?"

I think I've shown more manners than he has in this thread. Paolo needs to accept that there are other Catholics than himself with differing opinions. And Paolo needs to knock it off with his condescending "I'm-the-only-real-Catholic-in-the-world" attitude.

Anyway, whatever we are, we must remember this:

United we stand, divided we fall.

If Islam will conquer the world it's because we non-muslims are divided.

Paolo has been posting here for a long time. He has contributed many valuable insights, and historical references. Credit should be given where credit is due...and now it has...

Allies is right, we should not get distracted by petty or minor differences. We are all on the same side...the enemy is watching us for weak spots, lets not show them any...

ALLIES and EliasAlucard are right.
i just got in, and have not read all of the above, but much of what i have seen so far isn't
pretty.
we in here as guests of JW, let us behave accordingly.
(and when i get stroppy later, you can all remind me that i said that, thank you).

THE ALLIES SHALL WIN quotes

Paolo, EliasAlucard, Greek Gurl surely we are all on the same side here. Paolo yes you are on the side of the good I see that. bUt calling Greek girl and idiot? Greek Gurl he was supporting you.

no allies as much as i hate islam and ottomans i also hate the people who make excuses for them and justify there actions in Cyprus my family suffered sa a result from that and paolo wants to justfy it all because some facist greek general killed a socialist greek who happened to be Oriana Fallaci lover well as far as i am concerned he can go to hell with islam

Greek Gurl have you signed this petition?

http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/mainpage.html

Spread the word!

thanks elias i have just signed the petition and i will spread the word.

M Al-Content yes it is not pretty but i have said what i have to say and I stand by it I will not reply to paoblo anymore post anymore or to Oben d'Imishte they are not worth it

Paolo wrote to Alucard:

"You said that the laws of Italy are written by the Vatican; that is the only explanation of your statement - which you made, so do not try to escape your responsibility - that according to the Church the use of condoms is right in Italy and wrong elsewhere. The Italian parliament decides as it pleases, and the Pope does not give them orders, whatever your provincial media may have got you to believe."

Alucard never said the laws of Italy are written by the Vatican. What he said was simply this:

"If condoms are allowed in Italy then they should be allowed in Africa too."

From Paolo's retort to Alucard quoted above, it would seem that Paolo believes that, while the Pope does not give the Italian parliament orders on legislation, the Pope does give orders to African nations...[!]

I'm fully aware that the Pope doesn't legislate laws in Italy, and I never implied anything like that.

It's ironic how Paolo is accusing me of not being able to read when he didn't even understand what I wrote.

Anyway, this is damn off topic, let us focus on the Pope, Turks and islam instead.

EliasAlucard:

I usually enjoy your posts which are often intelligent and thoughtful, however you are wrong with respect to the Church's teachings on contraception etc... Paolo is correct.

Blaming the Church for Africa's AIDS problem is wrong, exactly as Paolo said. The Church teaches CHASTITY which means that unmarried people do not have sex till they are married, and when they are married they have sex only with their wife or their husband.

Artificial Contraception is a disorder of human sexuality because it rejects the possibility of new life within the sacrament of marital love. Deliberately blocking that possibility makes the woman purely an object of sexual gratification, which denegrates her role in society and in the marriage. It psychologically damages the relationship between husband and wife. If they don't want children, then they can use the rhythm method, which is very effective, and requires communication and discipline.

Listen, read Pope Paul VI's Humanae Vitae, and you'll see it all spelled out, and much better than I can do it.

Next, Catholicism is not a grocery store where you pick and choose what teachings you agree with and pretend to be a devout Catholic. Like love, it's all or nothing. A Catholic who supports abortion is a crappy Catholic, because he or she refuses to follow the teachings of the Magisterium. That's how it works. No "cafeteria" Catholicism is a true Catholicism.

Elias, you can think and believe whatever you want, but to say that someone can support something which is directly opposed to the teachings of the Church is NOT a true or devout Catholic. There are many Catholics who adhere to the teachings but fail in their everyday practice. That's understandable, but they must repent, start again and hope to improve with God's help. However, those who obdurately follow heresy (yes, I mean heresy as something which is false doctrine not in communion with the Magisterium) are NOT devout Catholics and are in error.

I agree with the "cafeteria Catholic" argument above. It has always seemed silly to me that Catholics want to remain Catholics yet don't want to follow the Catholic rules. News flash: there has been a Protestant Reformation, over 500 years ago, effectively carving out hundreds of niches by which Christians can be Christians without having to be Catholic. Why not jump ship, if so many of the things on board don't suit you?

atheling, you know what the irony is in all this? I always defend the Catholic church when some atheist says that the Pope is wrong on his stance about condoms.

I guess I just love playing the Devil's Advocate on the Internet. But to be serious, you're right and I'm wrong in this case.

I know you can't blame the Catholic church for the spreading of HIV, and I am aware that if everyone practised some form of chastity, then HIV/AIDS would cease to exist (at least in the wild).

And like I've repeated many times already: I'm not a devout Catholic, i.e. I don't practise my religion seriously. I guess I'll have to get my act together on this and start going to church and all, but right now is not the right time for that.

EliasAlucard:

Right on, brother!

Yikes, I reread what I initially wrote and realized that I had major grammatical errors. Sorry!

"and their stupid actions resulted in Turkey being left in murderous possession, from which nothing has been able to remove them since"

I understand Paolo but to err is human to forgive divine (and forgive me for sounding like Im preaching here!) I think Greek Gurl feels strongly because when you have family getting hurt its a whole different ballgame as the Americans say. As for the colonels and their attempt it really makes no difference --Turkey would have found another reason to invade if it wasnt for them. Documents surfaced in an Israeli newspaper of all sources that
Turkey wanted an offshore foothold for years and was waiting for the right opportunity. Im sure its not beyond out muslim 'friends' to have manufactured one if circumstance hadnt provided them with one. Paolo some Roman Catholics I know are the most spiritually devouted people I have every met bar none but I honestly dont think Alucard meant no disrespect to you. I know catholics who would agree with him and others who wouldnt. Alucard has defended Catholics agaisnt others (and Ive defended Southern baptists at the University of Toronto against idiotic professors who wanted to prevent them from having their own bible club when I was in the Student Government and had the power to help out). The point is at least Christians of all denominations TRY to do the right thing. What does Islam do? Help you? what help! If Islam takes over Africa (our brothers in the Lord are dying in the Sudan right at this moment) what difference does arguing about aids and contraception matter. Islam will 'take care of it' with its 'tender mercies' once its swept over that whole continent. you guys come on -please?

Anyway I am listening to the WW I song OVER THERE (the yanks are coming! the yanks are coming!) very inspirational. Im remembering all those brave soldiers men and women european and american and canadian who died in WW I and II and the other conflicts. God I love every last one of them. Catholic, Protestant, Unitarian, French , Polish whatever. So many died because of evil wanted to do us in.
Islam is more insidious though isnt it> hides as a religion but is a political fascist agenda at heart that would destroy us , or enslave us or both!

SORRY correction:

but I honestly dont think Alucard meant ANY disrespect to you.

me and my double negatives..

From http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k106/aaronscc/LGF/lgf26Nov2006.jpg

I believe the Allies will wake up again and be lead by America to fight Islam and any other Nazism that pops up in the future. Freedom is not free.

Please listen to this free song about the soldiers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bDF6kPDMQw&mode=related&search=

God bless those lovable yanks.

And to this free song/video too:

WHAT WE FIGHT FOR:

God bless America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rnf7DS5YlQ&mode=related&search=

___

WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING:

And you MUST see this (warning some scenes graphic)
a quick video on "Religion of Peace?"
see why I why I keep my mind focused not on our differences but our common foe--stare into the face of the smilling relgion of pieces..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMUiFo4FbJM

What's the positive aspect over the spectacle of the pope's visiting Turkey?

Muslims are afraid, - truth is not asleep either and will succeed.

Tens of thousands will convert.

It's a test for Turkey.

Praise the Lord.
Amen, Amen!!

AMERICANINGERMANY thanks Its 3:35 am and Im burning the midnight oil today (im still awake!) so I had to drop by and see jihadwatch. I am watching an interview Robert Spencer had with Pat Robertson about the book and topic "truth about muhammed".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TsDmHhzWks

Yeah Pat Robertson gets it, but every atheist thinks he's nuts because he believes in God.

Greek Gurl wrote:
"as much as i hate islam and ottomans i also hate the people who make excuses for them and justify there actions in Cyprus"

Then you'll have to hate the Big Brother Greece, for, on March 21 1979, the Supreme Court of Athens accepted that the Turkish military action was justified according to the Treaty of Zurich, signed on February 11, 1959, between Turkey, Greece and England; giving the right to intervene individually if co-operation were not possible. The Council of Europe had come to the same conclusion much earlier: #873-July 29, 1974. So, are you gonna hate all Europeans, too?...

BTW, my research resulted in 600 for the closest number of Turks killed by the Greek Cypriots. The 100 difference comes from the ones killed before EOKA, I guess. Turkey lost almost 600 soldiers during the war (including the ones we killed by sinking our own ship)! As a result, our army was stronger and we killed more. Isn't it always the case, suc as US in Vietnam, US in Iraq, etc.? (The raitos get worse as technological warfare advances.)

Greek Gurl wrote:
"its not only the 12 miles of sea that belongs to greece its fonstantinople and most of Turkey that belongs to Greece you turks belong in mongolia where you first came from"

With this logic, the Americans should go back to Europe or wherever they came from. And guess what, they killed more Indians then the total of Greeks and Armenians that the Turks had killed in centuries...

My wife adds: Be strong and get 'your' land back. Greeks are bound to lose to Turks. They're not strong enough to fight all by themselves and ask for help from other European nations.

Here, I have to disagree with my wife (God! This site will ruin my marriage!), for I know from a friend of mine who is a captain in the Turkish Air Force, that in the War Game room in the military academy Turkey sometimes loses to Greece. Apparently some of our generals are not good enough, although an American general(*) once had said: Turkey eats Greece in 3 days and won't even burb.

*: I'm not sure if that 'general' is correct.

germaninamerica, I am having a hard time with Greeks already. Is it OK if I save the Armenians to another thread. But I promise, I'll be there... :-) (i.A.)

Paolo, I did not misinterpret you. My thanks remain. My only addition is that, in wartime, the stronger one does violent things (The Serbs, for example) and if Greece had pushed before Turkey, it would be the other way round. I guess I'd written before: no such thing as clean war.

Oben D'imishite quotes

My wife adds: Be strong and get 'your' land back. Greeks are bound to lose to Turks. They're not strong enough to fight all by themselves and ask for help from other European nations.

your wrong we dont need to go crying to Europe or the US to defeat you. all orthodox christian countrys (serbia russia Greece) will unite against you turks Constantinople will be reclaimed and Agia sophia will be restored infact the only ones who goes crying to europe for help is you Turks and albanians you cried to Europe about the serbs when they where kicking your butt becusae like thieves you where stealing kosvovo you cried to Europe and US about the chechens kicking your butts but trust me soon your butts will get kicked again by russia serbia and greece and europe and us will not do nothing about it.

Oben d'Imishte

"My wife adds: Be strong and get 'your' land back. Greeks are bound to lose to Turks. They're not strong enough to fight all by themselves and ask for help from other European nations.Here, I have to disagree with my wife (God! This site will ruin my marriage!)..."

Actually if Turkey was honestly democratic and secular (not 99% muslim) there wouldnt be a problem in terms of threat of war.

As for "being strong enough". Honestly this is quite a 'moot point':

The way it is --EU is becoming one large block, socially, econmically, and yes militarily--sort of the United States of Europe.

If Turkey attacks Greece
EU will amass a HUGE fighting force from Britain,France,Italy,Germany etc and will itself 'eat Turkey without burping'. Many European high level politicians have stated this including the French Foreign Minister (I think thats the guy that called the rioting muslim youths on the streets of Paris --'scum').

Greek Parliament knows this about EU thus they would never attack Turkey but if Turkey is silly enough to invade an full memember EU country???
forgetabout turkey!

Now I do not believe Turkey will do that, becuase though its not democratic, the army that controls it is secular. But the population is 99% sunni muslim. And if as my exmuslim Turkish friend says "turkey is one revolutionary coup away from becoming an Islamic Republic" and this DOES happen THEN turkey might invade.

As Iran will invade/attack as soon as they are nuclear. You see Turkey and Greece arent suicidal but Islamic Republics can be! Turkey of course is secular on the surface (the govt that controls it is secular though pro-Islam) but the population ---oy! they are Islamic and proIslamic Caliphite if revolution time comes to Turkey from within.

Ps by the way my friend Bulent (from above) was also in Turkish forces (army reserves) for 3 years. And what the Turkish army fears is not thousands of Greek troops coming into Turkey but millions of EUROPEAN troops under the blue flag of gold stars. THAT is what scares them he told me. It makes sense. If I was muslim and in Turkey I would want EU to accept us and I would not look kindly on a strong united EU with Greece and Cyprus in it. Its the EU that is the real power. not greece and definitely not turkey. EU military consists of millions of men and huge amounts of the best of the best war machine (plus nuclear warheads).

Thats the thing --If Turkey invaded Greece --Greece would not be standing alone! As for Greece invading Turkey they have no reason to do this they are EU. They know the hand of cards they are carrying at the poker table of the world.

Oh and I hope this doesnt ruin your marriage with your Turkish wife! Politics has a nasty habit of wearing down a marriage! that and money probs.

Also I agree with Greek Gurl. The Russian PM Putin has told the Greek govt on several occasions that it consders the two nations brother. (plus those lovable Russian have always eyes the huge eastern side of Turkey for themselves). In the 'spirit' of helping out they would invade Turkey from the East
and EU would invade from the West. Seriously going to the EU is "not crying for help" Greece is a full fledged memember of the EU (same as Germany, UK, France etc --NOT associate membership!) and as such is under direct blanket of over 100 different EU only treaties. Also NATO is angry at Turkey right now. If Turkey invades another NATO country this would be in direct violation of the main contract and THEN Nato countries would attack Turkey (US and Canada). No I dont think Turkey is suicidal enough to invade a EU member nation!
But if an islamic republic coup happens in Turkey then the shit hits the fan because you know, you have a type of system like Syria and Iran. The secular govt at least knows this but they have their work cut out for them because 99% islam presence in the country is not opposed to Shiara law since its the natural law for all who want to be under Islam. There are many popular Shiria law movements in Turkey. And thanks to our 'friends' the Saudis more money is being spent than ever before to fund THESE groups. The Saudis want Turkey in the Islamic sphere not the EU sphere politically.

correction: your wife --I think you are turkish and she is not? Anwyay its a big issue and Turkey govt is caught in the middle. I personally believe the high up officials while being islamic are secular enough not to want Turkey to become some sort of Islamic republic but they have enemies with very 'good' muslims within who want to restore the caliphite and the Saudis and others help those elements out.

I concur. One must understand that Greece does not "need to go crying" to the European Union. Greece *is* the European Union. That is, its part of it, not a partial memeber or a non member like Turkey.

There is a Western European Union within the European Union which covers defence issues. Greece is a part of *that* union as a equal member. Turkey is not. WEU has very specific treaties that covers equal and full members of EU and WEU (and Greece is one of thouse on par with Western Europe, Turkey is not).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union

read the surprising treaties in detail at the official site (pdf files)

http://www.weu.int/

When we discuss on here it is fanciful for muslim visitors to sabre rattle, but the facts are the Union is what matters when we are speaking about Greece, a member of the inner WEU and Union and a real democracy with complete journalistic freedoms. In Turkey , turkish journalists numbering over 250 are in prison right now for 'inciting hatred' against religion or the government.

God protect the Pope in Turkey. He said a mild historically accurate statement about Islam and now they want to kill him. There have already been promises of death threats on his tour.

"we dont need to go crying to Europe or the US to defeat you. all orthodox christian countrys (serbia russia Greece) will unite against you turks "

Greek Gurl, check the map, please, to see where the abovementioned countries are.

THE ALLIES SHALL WIN, was it Bismarck who had said that the Balkans were not worth the boot of a German soldier? Do you think England, France, Germany would go to war for Greece? (Individuals may, like Shelley & Byron.)

BTW I did not say anything about attacking Greece! That's not even a fantasy in Turkey. Why should we?... (But soldiers have to be paranoid; on watch all the time, just like you guys are here.)

As for the war fantasy: What are you going to do with the 2 million Turks in Germany?...
For the porposed solution, see 'Japs in the US during WW2'

oben D'mishite quoted

Greek Gurl, check the map, please, to see where the above mentioned countries are.

oben d' mishite russia is not considered to be part of western Europe parts of russia are also in Asia and eastern Europe. Serbia is also eastern european and not western european

Oben d'Imishte quoted

THE ALLIES SHALL WIN, was it Bismarck who had said that the Balkans were not worth the boot of a German soldier? Do you think England, France, Germany would go to war for Greece? (Individuals may, like Shelley & Byron.)

oben i dont give a damn if england germany or france or what Pissmarck said would help us or not especally England who loves you Turks anyway and they would probably help you knowing the past but when russia helps us we will be so strong no one can touch us england cant hold us back and if you turks try to take the aegean islands Turkey will be kicked back to its original homeland mongolia

BTW I did not say anything about attacking Greece! That's not even a fantasy in Turkey. Why should we?... (But soldiers have to be paranoid; on watch all the time, just like you guys are here.)
Posted by: Oben d'Imishte

Bismark-- your kidding right? LOL This isnt the Germany of Bismarck or of hitler my friend. This is the EU which has pledged along with the other full members for FULL protection.
I agree with the other posters the EU is not 'league of nations'. You keep making the mistake of seperating Germany or other EU nations from Greece and then making an argument on that basis! THAT is fantasy my friend! pure and unadulterated.

I dont think you or many people understand what the EU is about--its forming a NATION. yeah I know it sounds strange but the common currency and military and all the treaties they have are only a beginning.
And for your info when the Greeks took back Greece
from the Ottomons in the 1800s European powers did help with soldiers and navy etc (so there is even historical precedence for that too). But this is not the same thing --this EU is a national identity movement, a beginning of a United States of Europe. You need to read more on the official websites of the EU.

As for calling us 'paranoid' "just like you guys on here" --that sort of personal attack only reveals the weakness of your position if not your mind. If you have something to discuss do it , but name calling only shows a juvenile prediliction to irrationality.

As for us being paranoid. Well if we ARE its thanks to the actions of the religion of 'peace' of late

Sorry friend but I (and countless other nonmuslim westerners) keep seeing flashing of AIRPLANES SLAMING INTO THE WTC TOWERS and a Bearded fool saying he did it for allah and countless attacks on cities around the world (including the failed attempt here in my home town of Toronto where 17 muslims planned to detonate 12 bombs all over my fair city. A 'thank you' I guess for our universal health care). What Robert Spencer is doing on here is not paranoid but necessary.
Islam is the religion of Muhammeds commands for universal conquest until the whole world:

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

Thats a fact. As for the 2 million turks in Germany--let them keep agitating like they do in Paris and you will see what is under the surface of French and German liberalism.

A few nuclear dirty bombs go off (as Hamid Mir states are 6 already in US and Europe) and German and French 'liberalism' will disappear along with Turkeys dreams for the future like some much chaff in the wind.

German soldiers fight for Greece.

Nay I say EU soldiers will fight for EU .

THATS the point my friend. As somebody who has spent time in Europe I can honestly tell you that the prevailing attitude is "Im European" there not just "im french or Im Spanish" etc. But seriously more than that, have you read the war treaties of the full members of each other? please read them.

We can argue the point till the cows come home. I suggest we wait and see hmm?

oben quote:

"Greek Gurl, check the map, please, to see where the abovementioned countries are..."

Oben you should do the same. Russia loves eastern Turkey and Armenia and Georgia is sure not going to oppose them! Oh and er the Russians have these REALLY REALLY BIG destroyers and air carries with NUCLEAR weapons in the black sea. Im surprised you have not looked that up! Those gawrsh darn Russians have a force that would carve up Turkey like an American family eagerly carves up the bird by the same name every year.

Anyway nobody on here wants war with muslims but unfortunately the way Islam is acting of late what do you expect of us? You want us to forgot about our own freedoms and relgions and all become Islamic. Naseem loves to come on here and say that . But thats not going to happen.

The black sea fleet

http://flot.sevastopol.info/eng/

means Russia can attack on land , from the air and from the coast of Turkey. Plus several nuclear warheads are reportadly still aimed on the biggest Turkish cities. Ouch!

Oben D'smite

With this logic, the Americans should go back to Europe or wherever they came from. And guess what, they killed more Indians then the total of Greeks and Armenians that the Turks had killed in centuries...

oben D' imishite are you trying to say that because america slaughtered millions of indians that justfys you turks killing 2 million christians in Turkey? yes America has A bad history in stealing land from the indians and killing them i wont deny that i am not a hypcrite and if native indians want to take there land back just like we greeks want to take back constantinople then they have a right to.

In the end it boils down to not 'turks' against 'greeks' and 'armenians' though. In the end its 'Islam' against Christians and other nonmuslims. Thats why Turkey and other muslim nations do all the stuff unfortunately.

The American Indians are now some of the most extreme forms of Americanism that exist today. They have a special relationship with the land that is America. They were not pussies that got their butts kicked by another culture. They were a culture of Warriors, but they are not stupid like the muslims, and therefore they have succeeded in America Oben D'smite. The Indians I know would take you out to the reservation and boil you in oil you fool. We are here asshat, come and try to kick us out. Scared? You should be, you know history, there are surely Americans willing to fight you making their way to Greece as we speak. We won’t stop coming at you until you submit.

For some posters above.

Atheists think Pat Robertson is nuts, because he is, not because he believes in God. If believing in God was the criteria for being nuts then most of this planet is nuts...wait a minute..what is everyone fighting over anyway? God isn't it? God Wars, battle for god, holy slaughter as old as mankind...well that is nuts.

Anyway Pat Robertson is nuts and a charlatan, declaring that his god visited hurricanes on the U.S. because it didn't burn gays at the stake.. and he said the same thing about New Orleans and Katrina, "gods punishment"..

The man is a divisive rabble rouser, and a fruit cake..and would be if he was an atheist, and he might as well be, for surely his god is not Jesus Christ or the Christian God.. I've read the Old and New Testament through many times and never saw in the message of the Christ anything resembling the rantings of Robertson, Fartwell, Dobson, et al and that closeted self hating gay Ted Haggard.

Jesus is the perfect example of love and tolerance

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
(the Gospel of John 8:7)

Muhammed was the perfect opposite:

"The Prophet (Muhammad) said: 'Do not stone the adulteress who is pregnant until she has had her child.' After the birth she was put into a ditch up to her chest and the Prophet commanded them to stone her. Khalid came forward with a stone, which he threw at her head, and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and he cursed her. The gentle Prophet prayed over her and she was buried."
(Hadith No. Muslim 682)

nobody can match the evil of Islams "prophet".

Nariz:

Pat Robertson isn't "nuts", just simplistic.

America is a Christian nation. Her Declaration of Independence and her Constitution both invoke the protection of the Judeo Christian God. All fifty states have preambles in their respective constitutions and every single one of them invokes the God of Abraham and Moses. Liberalism in America seeks to destroy those Judeo Christian values. Abortion, gay marriage, contraception, sexual licentiousness, hedonism all permeate and corrupt our culture.

Christians believe in the God of Abraham and Moses. If you read the Old Testament you will see the history of God's relationship with man, particularly the Hebrews, His "Chosen People." In that history we see that God helped His people survive in a brutal, tribal world. When the Hebrews turned away from the God of Abraham and Moses to worship false gods, He abandoned them to their enemies.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Hurricane Katrina is a punishment from God. But I wouldn't say it's altogether impossible. It would be presumptuous of us Christians to think that He couldn't do the same to us if we deserted Him. We would deserve no less.

It stands to reason that the current pope was elected specifically to play a very brief but momentous role on the world stage. Benedict is very directly and publicly questioning Islam's ability to reason in a civilized manner to put recent world events into context. Islam is not responding very reasonably.

Liberalism in America seeks to destroy those Judeo Christian values.

atheling

you took the words right out of my mouth. Robertson is okay in my book --he loves a FREE america.