Anything to this? I don't know. I'd like to find out. Will we find out? Probably not. "Probe of Islamic ties 'obstructed' by feds: Congressman who chaired panel says public 'would be outraged if they knew the extent,'" by Art Moore for WorldNetDaily.com, with thanks to all who sent this in:
Federal officials were "outrageously obstructive" during a congressional probe examining possible Islamic terrorist and foreign ties to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, according to a congressman who disclosed to WND some of the highlights of a subcommittee report scheduled for release next week."The public would be outraged if they knew the extent of obstruction, or lack of cooperation, that has been given to this investigation," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., who led the probe as chairman of the International Relations' Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations.
One example was the Justice Department's handling of a lead Rohrabacher received from an independent investigator concerning a Muslim figure with suspected ties to the Oklahoma City bombing whose name curiously shows up on the list of unindicted co-conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center attack. The New York City bombing was attributed to Muslim terrorists connected to al-Qaida.
The report will document a series of correspondence between the subcommittee team and Justice officials that concluded with a refusal to turn over information about the suspect – for no apparently legitimate reason, according to Rohrabacher.
"This may well reflect the way the Justice Department deals with legislative branch investigations in general, which is very disappointing," Rohrabacher told WND. "In this case, however, we're talking about the investigation of the mass murder of 168 Americans and how that relates to the threat we face today from al-Qaida, and we find that to be rather alarming."
Read it all.
Ordinarily one is leery of conspiracy theories and theorists. McVeigh and Nichols had their own good and sufficient, and completely crazed reasons, for acting as they did. But the article suggests that the government investigators have not diligently followed up the possibility of some kind of Islamic support for someone like McVeigh, with his blend of Aryan-brotherhood or neo-Nazi sentiments and hatred of the government, quietly directed or channeled by him, but also possibly by others, to lead him to the bombing of the Murrah Building.
Here is a paragraph that strikes one:
"Rohrabacher also followed the leads of investigators who believe McVeigh was connected to a German national in the U.S. illegally in 1995, Andreas Carl Strassmeier, and domestic white supremacists at a compound in Oklahoma called Elohim City.
Nichols, in fact, claimed last month he had information about the complicity of white supremacists, issuing an affidavit from his cell at the Colorado prison. In the 10-page handwritten document, he boasts of 'substantial evidence and information that clearly reveals' the involvement of others beside himself and McVeigh and of a 'federal government cover-up.'
Rohrabacher believes it's plausible American white supremacists collaborated with Muslim jihadists because of common goals and sentiments, including a shared hatred of Jews and the U.S. government."
Several things lead one to believe that at least the withholding of cooperation, by the government, with Rohrabacher's stated desire to interview Nichols, and to follow up certain other leads, is disturbing.
One is the clear ideological connection between neo-Nazis or indeed by all convinced antisemites of the most extreme kind, and those engaged in violent Jihad, JIhad using the instrument of terror. David Duke swanning around Teheran and the "Holocaust-Denying Conference" is one well-publicized example, but police reports in Europe have intermittently noted a link between some antimemitic far-right groups (there is another kind) and the goals of Muslims -- a clear case of antisemitism trumping all other interests or values.
The second is the use, by Muslim terrorists, of the weak-minded who have an obsession or a grude of any kind. The murderer of Pim Fortuyn was van der Graaf, a Dutchman always identified as consumed with "animal rights." So he was, but as he said at his trial, his concern was for the "weak" and the "weak" in this case, as he had come to see it (and who helped him, whispering, whispering, to come to see it that way) were the poor Muslims of the Netherlands, who were being menaced by terrible Pim Fortuyn, so it was his, van der Graaf's, duty to kill Pim Fortuyn. It is hardly beyond the wit of Muslims, so good in Europe at exploiting pre-existing sentiments among some, including some in the government and media, such sentiments as anti-Americanism and antisemitism -- to also exploit the feeble-minded.
Van der Graaf was feeble-minded.
So was Timothy McVeigh, muttering about all the bad things that were caused by the "government" and he, Timothy McVeigh, was casting about for a way to make a statement, and to set things straight. And here is where the same kind of people who helped van der Graaf go from worrying about animal rights to worrying about the threat of Pim Fortuyn, may have come in, either directly, or through neo-Nazi cut-outs.
All interesting points Mr. Fitzgerald, so in light of the obvious, one wonders why the government which was targeted and hit by Timothy McVeigh, would not want to find all links to preclude this from happening again.
Also troubling was the apparent haste with which McVeigh was executed; what was the rush?
Moreover, why was it important at the time for Timothy McVeigh to deny any connection to islamic groups before his execution when nobody was considering such a possibility in the first place?
Finally, if a probe did conclude thatTimothy McVeigh was working for bin Laden; and if TWA flight 800 was shot down by islamic terrorists as many FBI investigators insist that it was -- so what?
How would such things coming to light benefit us now other than to satisfy the morbid curiosity of the public?
Naturally, there will be detractors and rabid supporters of the old theories that will pour out of the wood-work.
In the end all we are left with are dead people,conspiracy theories and theorists; and countless reasons for being leery of everything so as not to do anything.
One of the chief witnesses who could shed some light on this is now feeding the worms. The speed at which McVeigh was executed is astounding considering how long it usually takes to carry out a death sentence. One wonders.
Gee, perhaps I should read all the previous comments before looking foolish by repeating someone else's comment.
I will add that the apparent active uncooperation and obstruction by the government adds fuel to the conspiracy theory fires. People like Alex Jones feed on this stuff. Alex Jones and his fellow psychopaths are the kind of people who find all kinds of sinister machinations in
everything. Every time the government keeps a secret, it is always for the reasons that support the theorists; that is, according to the theorists.
It is like all the BS that comes from the Area 51-alien space craft believers. The government is not running a secret airbase for the usual security reasons, but to keep us from learning about alien technology.
The government is being ucooperative in the Oklahoma City incident not because someone might discover some secret investigative tactics, or put informers at risk but because they are shielding the Saudis, or themselves. I presume that some people cannot believe that the government is actually trying to protect us even though they seem rather inept.
For reasons that are not unknown, LLLs love to trot out McVeigh at every instance of "islamic terrorism" as supposed proof that Christians are terrorists too. I will be tuned in to this to see whether this connection did not exist, but if it did, I know I will be serving up a Christmas dish of STFU to some of the idiotic athiest bolsheviks running around this country.
It may be that Jayna Davis, the Oklahoma City news reporter who believes that an Iraqi national was involved, will turn out to be right after all.
I sent this link to my email list yesterday.
Remember how the other suspects were just forgotten?
McVeigh got in the express lane for execution. Like everyone else here, it boggled my mind just how fast the feds whacked him.
The assertion that he was a Christian is ridiculous. The assertion that Christian Identity is Christian is ridiculous. Christian Identity worships some "other Jesus" just like islam does.
it wasnt opnly Jayna Davis who accused mcveigh and nichols of being involved with muslim terrorist. there were many others, One being Yosef Bodansky( google the name) Yosef Bodansky was the head of the congressional task force on terrorism. Yosef Bodansky along with Jayna Davis sought to have a congressional investigation into mcveigh and nichols involvement with muslim terrorist! Both Bodansky and Davis had plenty of proof of mcveigh and nichols meetings with muslim terrorist!
Anything to this? I don't know. I'd like to find out. Will we find out? Probably not.
Having read Thke Third Terrorist by Jayna Davis, I would answer:
Yes, there is something to this. And no, in the absence of honest journalism, honest government, and honest politics, we are very unlikely to find out.
But, if you want to find out for yourself, hit this link, whereby it'll take 22 answers from the Feds to leave standing their preposterous contention that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols did the job themselves.
http://www.askshow.com/blog.php?id=93
These two losers were cutaways cynically played by Lebs and Iraqis who were, without dispute, crawling all around McVeigh and Nichols, the crime scene, and OK City, prior to and just after the Murrah Federal Bldg being blow to the ground.
Investigative reporter Peter Lance, by no means a conservative, is convinced that there is some kind of connection between McVeigh and radical Islamists, as well as a connection between the crash of TWA 800 and Ramzi Yousef's cell. He points out that Nichols, whose wife is Philipino was in the same city in Mindanao at the same time as Ramzi Yousef. See, for example "1000 Years for Revenge".
Yousef, of course, was one of the world's most talented bomb improvisers. Could Nichols have been there for a bit of instruction? Is it impossible that two groups with a shared set of hatreds can form an alliance? It seems to be stretching coincidence beyond its elastic limit. Isn't avowed Marxist Chavez doing kissy things with the arch reactionary religious nut job in Iran? Ditto David Duke, so now we have a Chavez-Duke-Ahmanutjob connection. Then there are reports of Salvadoran criminal gangs helping Al-Qaeda types sneak across what Bush laughingly refers to as our southern border.
Muslims have always been good at taking advantage of rifts within the Dar-al-Harb, and using disgruntled infidels as allies in their jihads.
I've commented about this in the past. I don't believe the mafia and CIA killed JFK, and I don't believe UFO's are hidden at Area 51.
But there is plenty of circumstantial evidence linking McVeigh to Jose Padilla and Terry Nichols to Ramzi Yousef. There's more to it than "Boy, this drawing of John Doe #2 sure looks like Jose Padilla"; there's phone logs documenting calls to known terrorists, synchronous flights to known terrorist hideouts, and more. Not yet conclusive in my mind, but definitely worth investigating.
And after seeing the links between white supremicists and Muslim supremicists, it is plausible, even logical. Al Qaeda funds and assists "home grown" terrorist groups in Thailand, Somalia, and all around the world, why wouldn't they do it here?
And seeing the "investigations" of undeniable terrorist attacks, for example in San Francisco where the SUV driver who mowed down pedestrians all over the city got out of the car proclaiming "I am a jihadist!", to which the police and media responded "the incident was not related to terrorism, and the suspect has no known links to Al Qaeda", or the example of the shooter at the El Al airlines in LAX; how many weeks or months was it before the US government grudgingly admitted that that incident "may have been" terrorism-related? I no longer trust that investigations, such as OKC, are being done in an open, transparent, and unbiased manner. Or, in some cases, that they are even being done at all.
Muslims complain when Robert quotes violent or intolerant verses from the Quran and Hadith stating they are taken out of their socio-historical context and are not applicable to present day Islam.
If this is their defence, then is it not logical to conclude that all peaceful verses from the Quran and Hadith must be maintained within their period specific, socio-historical context and not permitted relevance to modern day Islam?
If so, then Islam ceases to exist. Has anyone ever lobbied this logic?
Why do we allow them to have their cake and eat it too?
Furthermore, Muslims including Ibrahim Hooper, believe a crusade is being launched against them by Western civilization. If so, their life and their religion is in danger; therefore, the use of taqiyya is very much permissable (in their warped minds) they accept the persecution of war against them?
Oops, i posted under the wrong story...i will cut and paste to "cherry picking"
Sorry All
[In 2001] Jayna Davis, former reporter for KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City, says she took her evidence [of a Muslim connection to the OKC bombing] -- including hundreds of court records, 24 sworn witness statements and reports from law enforcement, intelligence and terror experts -- to the FBI, which refused even to accept the material.
http://www.jaynadavis.com/is.html
Not only was McVeigh executed in record time, but the crime scene was destroyed by the authorities before it could be thoroughly investigated. The Unabomber's cabin was taken apart, piece by piece, and reassembled for investigation, but the Murragh Building was razed. Why?
Rumors of how McVeigh was captured, and about others being involved (from body fragments), I have heard former FBI investagators talk about how a truck bomb would need help of internal explosions to destroy the building the way it was.
William Cooper talked much about this before his death, amoung others. It was said McVeigh was angry about the Waco seige and goverment action there led to the OCB event.
"David Duke swanning around Teheran and the "Holocaust-Denying Conference" is one well-publicized example, but police reports in Europe have intermittently noted a link between some antimemitic far-right groups (there is another kind) and the goals of Muslims..."
Another is the public support for Islamism by August Kreis, the leader of one of the major branches of the white supremacy organization, Aryan Nations.
>>>>> "The public would be outraged if they knew the extent of obstruction, or lack of cooperation, that has been given to this investigation," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., who led the probe as chairman of the International Relations' Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations.>>>>>
And who/what exactly has prevented Dana Rohrabacher from getting to the truth?? For the past 6 years his party has been in the majority in both house of Congress and has held the Presidency... And what has prevented him from letting the public know about the extent of obstruction & lack of cooperation??
Blah, blah, blah, another silly Congress-dweeb blaming an amorphous "unknown" for his failures..
the only reasons for me why the feds have obstructed the investigation into the connection between mcveigh and islamic pus pimples is that we have double agents in the fbi who have positioned themselves to thwart the drive for illuminating the truth. the other reason might be that pictures of fbi families have been sent to them and threats have been implied. in a world in which our elected leaders folded and abandoned justice for the electorate during the impeachment of 42nd president slick willie and his gang, do pockets of cowardice and depravity surprise anyone? not me. how many individuals are required to derail the truth? sandy berger walked off with top secret documents and served no jail time and coughed up a puny 50,000 dollars to make it go away. did he or his gang have the goods on higher ups in the bush administration. why else would he get a slap on the wrist? who needs a tongue depressor to gag on when we have strategically placed fixers who thumb their nose at integrity, morality, justice? mother nature does not like a vacuum and moves to fill it. citizens hip to the forces bent on maintaining concealment of the truth must galvanize with our modern instrument of leveling the playing field-the internet. just as safe crackers listen to the tumblers before they find the right combination, patriotic freedom hungry actioneers can devise the right blend of influences and resources to open the trap door which vacates the warm seats of our traitors or shakey leaders some of whom pursue masquerade madness. let's pierce the masks. let's bare their facade, their posturing. let's fillet any big fish who stink up our joint. not with anything sharper than our minds, tongues, and pens. let's make it happen after new year's. let's all become revelationaries! in our pursuit of light!
where there is smoke , there is fire.