Fitzgerald: The folly of the Iraq Study Group

The Iraq Study Group brings us nothing but another kind of folly. It states the obvious, that "we are losing in Iraq" by which it means that, given the Bush Administration's definition of "winning" (which apparently the Iraq Study Group is too unimaginative to question), then we, who are failing to achieve what would thereby constitute "winning," therefore "are losing." And this statement of the obvious is considered a great achievement. But the Iraq Study Group report is even worse than a mere statement of the obvious. For along with that statement of the obvious comes so much else that is even more stupid and potentially dangerous than what the Bush Administration it criticizes now offers, that one is left feeling colossally depressed.

There is, for example, the suggestion that Iraq and Syria be "talked to." On the face of it, who can object to "talking to" anyone? But in the Middle East, "talking to" lends legitimacy. It gives support to those regimes that one wishes to isolate or at least to cause to feel isolated. It is not as if there the views of these regimes are not fully known already. They are not hermetically sealed off, like the military regime in Burma. We already know what the regime in Syria wants: it wants as much protection from its enemies, as much power and money, as it can get. It wants to continue to dominate Lebanon. It wants to continue the Alawite dictatorship by doing the simultaneous bidding of both the Shi'a in Iran (who have declared the Alawites to be "true Muslims," which is not what the Sunnis think, and Sunni Muslims constitute 70% of the Syrian population) and the Sunnis, by allowing the latter free entry to leave Syria and go to fight (and, the Alawites hope, die) in Iraq.

As for "talking to Iran," the American government already knows perfectly well what Iran wants. It wants precisely to "talk, talk, talk" with everyone under the sun, in order to keep any attack from actually taking place that would stop its headlong rush toward obtaining nuclear weapons. Only a fool would think otherwise. And only fools would think that formal "talks" would add to the American store of knowledge, or would help the U.S. find out what "Iran really wants" when we know perfectly well what Iran really wants: it wants that weaponry, and the power and the threat that go with it. And the current regime, we have every reason to believe, is certainly prepared to use such weapons against Israel, in a final chiliastic frenzy. The suggestion that the American government "talk to" Syria and Iran sounds perfectly harmless, perfectly fine, unless one thinks clearly about what such "talks" would mean.

Of course, there are "talks" that could be brief, and could go something like this:

To the Syrian regime, the Americans could say: Alawites are not true Muslims. We know this, and the Sunnis know this, despite your attempts to hide behind that single fatwa from Iran claiming otherwise. The Saudis are prepared to use their money to broadcast through the Arab press, in the Middle East and in London, ably assisted by the Jordanians and the Egyptians, that the Alawites, those non-Muslims, must go. You think you can continue to rule, despite being 12% of the population. You think we will not support a Sunni Muslim effort to depose you. At this point, your behavior is such that we regard you as disposable. But it is not we who will do the disposing. It will be the Ikhwan within Syria. We will publicize your permitting Shi'a missionaries to come from Iran. We will have the Saudis and others display the pictures of Mary that hang in every Alawite village. Your Alawite generals will get more and more nervous. They do not all wish to be slaughtered -- which is what the real Muslims will do to you. You have a choice. Leave Lebanon alone. Stop helping Iran. Forget about the Golan Heights; you will never get it back. We will give you a free hand in Syria. But that is it. That is more than enough. That, or a Sunni uprising that will not end in a mere palace coup, but in the mass murder of Alawites everywhere. Your choice.

That would be the way to have "talks" with Syria.

And the "talks" with Iran? Something along the same friendly lines. Something like this: Fifty percent of your population is not Persian. There are Kurds. There are Azeris. There are Baluchis. There are Arabs in Khuzistan, where all your oil is located. We are prepared to arm, through Kurdistan, those Kurds. The mere existence of an independent and American-backed Kurdistan will inspire not only those Kurds, but also those Baluchis and those Arabs and, if we can make a deal with Azerbaijan, possibly even those Azeris as well. The Ottoman Empire dissolved after World War I. What remains of the Persian Empire -- that is, modern Iran -- can dissolve, or be shrunk still further. Could you put down simultaneous revolts among the Kurds, Baluchis, Azeris, and Arabs? You don't think we dare do it? Why not? What do we have to lose? What could you do now that is still worse than what you are already doing? Let's be clear: we are not out to overturn the regime, but we can inflict such damage on your country that others, within, will overturn your regime. And kill the Mullahs in their luxurious homes. Do you want that? Do you want to lose the oil of Khuzistan to the Arabs? We wouldn't dare, you say? Why wouldn't we? Why should we care? We buy oil from wherever, and we pay the market price to you or to them. What reason do we have for keeping Iran together? Instability should worry us? Why? Why should it?

Something like that, to both Syria and Iran, would be the only kind of talks worth having.

As for the sinister business in the Iraq Study Group about Israel, it included all the cliches about a "two-state solution," courtesy no doubt of such operators as that virtual agent of the Arabs, Raymond Close (why has his participation, and his shadowy background, not been made the subject of discussion?). Also involved was Robert Malley, that full-time and tireless promoter of the "Palestinians," who was the behind-the-scenes organizer (the front man was Gareth Evans) of the International Crisis Group's little effort (one of those "signed by World Leaders" things) to demand renewed pressure for Israeli surrender. In that effort one of those
“World Leaders" was none other than Lee Hamilton, famously unsympathetic -- always has been, always will be -- to Israel, though not perhaps for the same reasons as Texas fixer and Saudi-connected ("Our friends in the Gulf") James Baker.

Oh, there's a good deal more to say about the Iraq Study Group, none of it good. The only good thing is that, along with much vicious nonsense, and of course without a hint of comprehension of the nature or scope or instruments of Jihad (these are all Yesterday's Men and Women, and far too famous and busy to have the time to learn, at this point, about Islam), it managed to state the obvious: that the Bush policy, on its own terms, is not "winning" in Iraq.

The more intelligent criticism, the one that requires examination of what should constitute "winning" for the United States in Iraq, was beyond that committee's capacity. After all, that would take real thought. That would take study, and reading, and time. That is not something to be asked of such busy busy people as James Baker and Lee Hamilton and all the rest. They had their "experts" -- such people as Raymond Close and Shibley Telhami. What did you expect?

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46 Comments

We are prepared to arm, through Kurdistan, those Kurds. The mere existence of an independent and American-backed Kurdistan will inspire not only those Kurds...
Hugh

If that's the message worth sending to Iran, why not send Syria the same message. Not only forget about ever getting the Golan back, but also prepare to lose the Kurdish North-Eastern part of their country. Such a loss of territory would do more to destabilize the Ba'ath regime than any broadcast propaganda from the Saudis.

The war in Iraq has left the ME in a worse condition than before. Western leaders cannot get inside the heads of these Islamic populations, therefore, all attempts in advancing the cause end in folly.

50 years of talking, on & off, has not worked at all, why in hell would the study group think talking would suddenly work now?

OLD GARGE, perhaps the studey group is a feeble attempt to cover for the administrations folly?

OLD SARGE sorry for the mispelling!

I guess these guys were thinking, if we just pretend it is 1991 real hard maybe the public will forget about 9-11 and everything that came before and afterward. Can you imagine these guys in a children’s story? Pretty please Mr. Wolf don’t eat me, here have my friend instead.

We are prepared to arm, through Kurdistan, those Kurds. The mere existence of an independent and American-backed Kurdistan will inspire not only those Kurds...
Hugh
If that's the message worth sending to Iran, why not send Syria the same message. Not only forget about ever getting the Golan back, but also prepare to lose the Kurdish North-Eastern part of their country. Such a loss of territory would do more to destabilize the Ba'ath regime than any broadcast propaganda from the Saudis.

Posted by: Infidel Pride


YES YES and YESSS!!!!!

Weakens Iran, Syria and Turkey all at once.. :-) Beautiful!! Oh. wait did I say: "hurts Turkey?"

Can't have THAT, can we? Our trusty old NATO partner turkey!

Salami&Bacon, y'all!!!
And MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

What is James Baker doing on this Commission?

Put Hugh on that Commission! Better yet, let him talk to these folks! I much prefer what HE has to say than anything I am hearing so far.

And always carry a Big Stick. Especially when you talk tough.

GOOD GRIEF.. savage is on commercials and I went to NPR.. they want to "negotiate".. "prepare a package".."get a deal done"

They want to solve Rubik's cube.

I'd rather solve the Gordian Knot!!

Argggghhh, these liberals!! They can DRIVE you NUTS!!!!!

The ISG report is not worthless. It shows the lack of vision, strategy, and our desire to win that has gripped our political system and our leaders including President Bush. For the last three years President Bush has stated that he would add more troops into Iraq if his commanders requested them. Guess what, the commanders didn't request them because they were told not to by Rumsfeld among others.

We keep hearing from the president that we need to hang in there and that this enterprise takes time. Yet he offers no strategy for winning, only that we should be patient.

Well, I believe that the best defense is a strong offense. We need to put more troops on the ground and aggressively go after the militias and others fomenting the violence.

I have lost much respect for President Bush because he isn't pitching a winning strategy. While Washington spends time debating a worthless report we have soldiers and marines fighting and dying. For what?

Expecting the Iraqi government to step up and take over is a pipe dream under the current circumstances. Now that the democrats control Congress the military budget will be at risk. Where it should go up, it'll likely stay the same or shrink.

This country used to produce leaders. Now, including the current president, we have politicians. We deserve much better, and more importantly, our men and women in uniform do too.

Hugh, have you ever been contacted by anyone in the US government? Or is it ontologically too obtuse to understand the mindset of our enemies or the nature of the threat?

Hugh, have you ever been contacted by anyone in the US government? Or is it ontologically too obtuse to understand the mindset of our enemies or the nature of the threat?

Posted by: Galloglass Warrior


Now now.. The Saudi overlords wouldn't like that! How much you wanna bet Robert and Hugh are on some sort of a "don't consult them" list?

Those frank (whats the word?..) "dialogs" would ideally be initiated by people whose first loyalty is to America. That excludes the likes of baker, hamilton, and close. One cannot be simultaneously concerned about the welfare of America and the welfare of one's arab benefactors.

"Stability" of muslim regimes is way overrated. Why not do more to bring the escapades and excesses of those fat saudi princes to the minds of all those idle young wahabis?

Hugh,

Will you please send this to President Bush? He needs help and ideas badly and we all know his advisors are incompetent. He's supposed to make a speech before the end of the year with his plan for Iraq. This posting from you would be a good start in the right direction.

Cordially,
Bonnie

"Servility to the invaders has poisoned democracy, with obvious consequences for the freedom of thought, and for the concept itself of liberty."

-Oriana Fallaci

Sorry...OT...but...I wonder how long this poor woman has to live?

From ynetnews:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3337609,00.html

Sudanese woman: Arabs murder, Israel defends

(VIDEO) Taraji Mustafa, Sudanese human rights activist living in Canada, sparks row in Arab world when she announces establishment of Israeli-Sudanese fellowship association. 'All the stereotypes I heard about Jews and Israelis were wrong,' she says in interview with al-Arabiya network, where she was invited to 'defend' her stance

Roee Nahmias Published: 12.08.06, 17:31

VIDEO - The moderate voice of Islam has been heard once again on Arab media, and it appears Israelis can add some of Sudan's population to the list of its new friends.

Taraji Mustafa, a Sudanese human rights activist living in Canada, recently said in an interview with the al-Arabiya network, "Ever since I announced the establishment of the fellowship association between Israel and Sudan, the phone in my house hasn't stopped ringing for two days.

"The response was amazing, from all around the world as well as from Sudan. I got calls from many students and citizens, as well as lawyers who said that they plan to sue the Sudanese government for noting in its passport that citizens are allowed to travel to all countries in the world apart from Israel, thus preventing a large number of its Christian and Muslim citizens from visiting Jerusalem," she added.

Sudan, slightly different (Video: MEMRI)

Mustafa was invited to give an interview to the Arab news network after she announced the establishment of the new association. During the interview, which was held about a week ago and is brought to you by Ynet courtesy of MEMRI – The Middle East Media Research Institute, she was asked to defend her controversial stance.

"Do you have an official mandate or a mandate from the people to establish an Israeli-Sudanese fellowship association, or is this your private initiative?" She was asked.

"I don’t need a mandate to discuss my private beliefs, and those of part of the Sudanese people. Why do I need a mandate to establish a fellowship association with part of the Israeli people which believes in fellowship?" She asked, expressing her surprise over the question.

Racist attitude

"We were able to meet good people of the Israeli people and I am here to say clearly all traditions and stereotypes I heard about Jews and Israelis were erroneous," she said.

"Today there is a Sudanese exiles in Israel who are being protected, and this while we were massacred in Cairo, assassinated in Iraq or expelled from Jordan," she added.

And what about Arabs? "Over the years that passed since we joined the Arab League and won our independence the Arabs failed to give us the feeling that we are Arabs. They always they had an attitude towards the Sudanese people based on stereotypes," she charged.

"The Arabs are involved in what is happening in Sudan in favor of the tyrant regimes … and I don't want to remind you of the disappearance of thousands of members of the opposition in Cairo and the assassinations," she said.

She also criticized the Palestinians: "The Palestinian people shouldn't forget that we, the Sudanese people, opened our doors for them in the days of Sabra and Shatila. The Palestinians should not forget that Jaafar Numeiri (a Sudanese dictator that ruled from 1969 to 1985) burst out during Black September to save Yasser Arafat. Unfortunately this is not taken into account by the Palestinian public and people, who treat the Sudanese people in the most terrible, racist and persecutory manner, only because they are a black people."

She blamed the Arab media of fanning racist attitudes towards the Sudanese, citing that black actors always play the role of waiters, chauffeurs and goalkeepers in Egyptian movies.

'I plan to visit Israel'

Mustafa told al-Arabiya's internet Web site that the setting up of the friendship union was a response to the Arabs' disregard of the crisis in the Darfur region, and to end Sudan's "unfounded enmity towards Israel."

She said that some 20 Sudanese intellectuals joined the union within the first few days of its existence and hinted that anonymous Sudanese politicians intend on pushing their government for normalization with Israel.

She said she intends on visiting Israel in the future.

She revealed plans to approach Israel with the possibility of opening union offices in the Holy Land.

I see it fairly well.
president bush wants to tatally and mercilessly defeat the muslim terrorist and has since sept.11,2001. the democrats hate bush and this administration more than they hate the muslim terrorist who attacked and slaughtered americans not only on 9/11/2001 but throughout the world in our embassys and marine barracks.
the democrats have fought tooth and nail to prevent president bush and this administration from defeating the terrorist.
the democrats have tied the hands of our soldiers by constantly insulting them calling them terrorist, rapist and murderers and comparing them to nazis!
i believe the answer is , if america wants to defeat the terrorist, first we must defeat their friends the democrats!
an old wise man once said, the friend of my enemy is my enemy!
the democrats have proven themselves through words and actions to be the friends of americas enemies!
The only thing that will end this war and stop the islamic madness is a decisive and total defeat of the muslims!
If america and the rest of the nonmuslim world isnt willing to give islam what it needs for this defeat, then prepare for dhimmitude!
inprison the democrats for 5 years and this war can be won, our soldiers come home in victory and the problem with an beligerant islam will be over!
the world of nonmuslim need to show the world we do have something in common with the muslim ummah.
They are fond of screaming they are not afraid to die for allah, Then we need to assure the muslims we are not afraid to kill them for allah!!!!!

As much as a complete load of garbage that the report is, it will reveal On BOTH sides, just how much of a lack of common sense there really is. President Bush has stated that he will not abandon Iraq like the democrats would have us do, but we'll see. The war was one already- it's the clean up and regrouping for the lingering effects that are causing minor hiccups. Our forces have been there 5 years now and we've only suffered 100's of 1000's less casualties as most wars? We toplled Saddam in a matter of a month? The 4'th most powerful army in the world and we stomped them into the ground? Nope- the War IS won! Has been for 5 long years now. BUT, if we 'redeploy' now, the country will erupt into war once again.

What we are witnessing is nothign more than what Ireland went through for decades- isoloated attacks by people that want control of something. That's it- http://sacredscoop.com

Can it be, is the world stirring from its slumber, will the world awaken and rise up?

>>> " ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ"

By Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez(*)

I walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible truth - Europe died in Auschwitz.

We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims. In Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed the chosen people, truly chosen, because they produced great and wonderful people who changed the world.

The contribution of this people is felt in all areas of life: science, art international trade, and above all, as the conscience of the world. These are the people we burned.

And under the pretense of tolerance, and because we wanted to prove to ourselves that we were cured of the disease of racism, we opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride.

They have turned our beautiful Spanish cities into the third world, drowning in filth and crime.

Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.

And thus, in our misery, we have exchanged culture for fanatical hatred, creative skill for destructive skill, intelligence for backwardness and superstition.

We have exchanged the pursuit of peace of the Jews of Europe and their talent for hoping for a better future for their children, their determined clinging to life because life is holy, for those who pursue death, for people consumed by the desire for death for themselves and others, for our children and theirs.

What a terrible mistake was made by miserable Europe.

"BUT, if we 'redeploy' now, the country will erupt into war once again."
-- from a posting above

And?

Dum Dhimmi Dum Dum Dum wrote:
"The Arabs are involved in what is happening in Sudan in favor of the tyrant regimes … and I don't want to remind you of the disappearance of thousands of members of the opposition in Cairo and the assassinations," she said.

She also criticized the Palestinians: "The Palestinian people shouldn't forget that we, the Sudanese people, opened our doors for them in the days of Sabra and Shatila. The Palestinians should not forget that Jaafar Numeiri (a Sudanese dictator that ruled from 1969 to 1985) burst out during Black September to save Yasser Arafat. Unfortunately this is not taken into account by the Palestinian public and people, who treat the Sudanese people in the most terrible, racist and persecutory manner, only because they are a black people."


>>>Taqqiya is a terrible thing to discover, a horrible thing to witness!~~

The one thing I like about this sit is that, despite the attitudes of many who post here, the people running it are neither leftists nor rightists; at least on this issue. They're just out to preserve our liberties. This essay is a good example of that.

Yeah, let's talk to Syria and Iran. Put all the cards on the table. If they don't like it, then we stir up all that crap Hugh mentioned. WW1 was a Christian deal. WW2 was another infidel deal. Let WW3 be a Muslim deal. And let nobody interfere.

Thndrbang said

the democrats have fought tooth and nail to prevent president bush and this administration from defeating the terrorist.

Like those who blame the U.S. government, through some dark conspiracy, of carrying out the 9/11 attacks, those who would blame the situation in Iraq on domestic political manoevering have misplaced their focus. We should keep our focus on those who are truly responsible: the jihadists in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, "Palestine", Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, etc.

As one of the "Southern" demographic...with all the baggage attached - why are even debating this?
Enemies are not our friends by definition. I cringe even typing that sentence.
Are we that far gone?

I'm not sure how to respond to Hugh's suggestion of how to negotiate with Iran and Syria. My gut feeling is that the time to negotiate, even in a belligerent and threatening way, is over. But then the subtleties of diplomacy are over my head anyways. Whether Iraq, or Iran, or Syria, are ruled by Alawites or Shi'as or Sunni's or Baathists or Kurds is not of particular interest to me. I'm not sure what value we could gain from negotiations of any kind.

But I wanted to mention the other major finding of the Jim ("f**k the Jews!") Baker commission. They were wise enough to realize that Iraq cannot be "solved" in isolation. There are factors outside of Iraq that need to be addressed. And so, it is important that we... [wait for it]... put pressure on Israel to cede more territory for a new "Palestinian" state. This will cause Islamic anger to diminish, leading to peace in Iraq and the Middle East.

Just when you think no-one could get it more wrong than the Administration, someone does.

We here all should know that to NEGOTIATE is WEAKNESS in the Eyes of Islam, and IF they ARE willing to Negotiate it is because THEY are weakened and they are buying time to regroup and gain Strength. So if they ever want to negotiate it That is the time to stand firm and keep them on the Retreat. The minute they feel strong enough , the Peace/Treaty will be over. NO negotiation. NO compromise. They wil understand then . This is what i learned from " Islam , what the West needs to know " . " WAR is Deceit" . this is something Every Western Leader SHOULD know, but Don't. ask the Iraelis, they know the score. there is no Choice. Ther is no Compromise. we have to drive them back out of our lands like the Crusades did. Like the Battle of Vienna, we have to say NO ,and never Falter. Is our Civilization capable of doing what they Ultimately are going to have to Do?

I honestly don't know. I hope so, for our Childrens sake.

Hamilton-Baker Report - A white flag. They want to jaw-jaw with an enemy that only wants to wa-wa and who will jaw-jaw only long enough to build up his wa-wa capability.

Reminds of Chamberlain's appeasement at Munich:

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/ralph/workbook/ralprs36.htm

Munich is where Peloci and her friends are going to take the country… and the world.

The mere existence of an independent and American-backed Kurdistan will inspire not only those Kurds, but also those Baluchis and those Arabs and, if we can make a deal with Azerbaijan, possibly even those Azeris as well (* - Hugh


It is not lack of good strategies, it is due to the lack of keeping focus on execution them which is getting us in the mess that we are currently in.

If we were to arm Iraqi K(t)urds I think they are equally deceitful as any Muslim calls himself loyal American, for which I will not hold my breath for two minutes. They will sell their mother let alone weapons whoever is willing to buy them.

excution -> 'executing' in prev. post

It does no good to shoot at Bush and his administration. He made mistakes, there is just no doubt about it. The people who reelected him in 2004 knew this already, they got exactly what they voted for.

It does not good to shoot at the dems, they were out of power during the time that these decisions were made, their voices were drowned out by the GOP majority in congress, which stopped at nothing to paint everyone who was not on their side as as traitor. A majority congress that rubber stamped virtually everything that Bush wanted cannot suddenly turn around and blame the minority which was shut out of power for 12 years.

It does no good to shoot at the Study Group. Bush asked for it, and people from all sides of the spectrum are there. And not to forget, Baker was once a political heavyweight in our country, it was Baker who got Bush elected in 2000 and Baker is a good friend of the Bush family. So, this means that Baker has nothing to profit from by sideswiping Bush, the man he helped put into office in 2000. He must have other reasons for agreeing with the panel's conclusions.

Talk with Iran? Talk with Syria? Well, we can talk, but this does not mean they will listen. One doesn't talk to terrorists, one kills them. But if you are going to kill them, then have enough forces there to do the job and not get ambushed!

In February 2003, I sent a mass email to all of my friends and acquaintances. In the mail, I predicted the following: 1.) We can win a quick war, but we cannot occupy this country with so few men. 150,000 was never enough, 400,000 would have probably sufficed 2.) Guerilla War will erupt, followed by civil war. 3.) For every terrorist we shoot down, 3 will sprout up in his stead. 4.)The flames of islamic hate will be fanned for years. -and- 5.)We are taking our focus off the real problems: Iran and N. Korea.

Many acquaintances flamed me from that email and said I was a traitor.

Roll the camera forward to 2006: We are losing by every method of measurement in Iraq. There is guerilla war and, without a doubt, civil war. The terrorist's numbers are growing. Islamic hate has erupted all over the world. N. Korea has exploded a nuclear weapon, even if not completely successfully. Iran is moving forward with it's nuclear program and telling us to kiss it's ass.

So, now I ask, who are the real traitors here? The people who questioned this nutty war, or the people who dodged in head first and didn't even listen to our top generals?

"But I wanted to mention the other major finding of the ...Baker commission. They were wise enough to realize that Iraq cannot be "solved" in isolation. There are factors outside of Iraq that need to be addressed. And so, it is important that we... [wait for it]... put pressure on Israel to cede more territory for a new "Palestinian" state. This will cause Islamic anger to diminish, leading to peace in Iraq and the Middle East.

Just when you think no-one could get it more wrong than the Administration, someone does."
-- from a posting above

James Baker has a clear sense of what is and what is not relevant. Asked by Senator Lieberman whether Iran might demand, as a price of agreeing to talks with the United States, a promise by the Americans to end its effort to prevent Iran from continuing pell-mell in its nuclear program, Baker replied with a fixer's suave assurance: "That's a very good question, Senator. We would simply make it clear that there is no connection between talking to Iran about Iraq and Iran's nuclear project." (Words not recalled verbatim, but to that effect).

Why, then, is there "no connection" between Iran's nuclear project, and any talks between Iran and the United States about Iraq? Because James Baker says so.

And why is there a necessary connection between the situation in Iraq, and what has come to be known to Bakerites of this world as the "Israeli-'Palestinian'" question, or still worse, becuase of the sinister reification involved, the "Israel/"Palestine" question, and Iraq? Because James Baker says so.

The Royal Fiat, or Firman, of the Texas Fixer. In one case, no connection at all because James Baker asserts no connecton. In the second case, a very important connection, because just like the Hitlerites who saw "the Jewish Question" as connected to everything under the sun, there are those in Washington -- and some of them are named James Baker (head of the Commission, who in his long career, in and out of government, with all his dealings with the Saudis and other Gulf Arabs, never sounded any alarms about Saudi attitudes, Saudi textbooks, Saudi use of oil revenues to fund mosques and madrasas world-wide, and lifted not a finger, in all of his years in and close to power, to push for the slightest effort to lower OPEC oil revenues, that might easily have been achieved beginning at the very beginning of OPEC's existence, or indeed at any time since), and Edward Djerijian (former State Department flunkey and "diplomat" who, in all his years of working in and about the Muslim Middle East, never understood, never felt the need to understand, the nature of Islam), now the head of the modestly-titled James Baker Center for Somethingorother (World Peace? Peace and An End To Poverty? World Peace, An End to Poverty, and Pie in the Sky in the Sweet Bye and Bye? I forget.), and special expert -- called in by Baker himself -- one Raymond Close, the former C.I.A. agent who has been up to his neck in Saudi dealings, at the latest, by 1977, when he resigned as Station Chief in Riyadh to go into business with two Saudis, at least one of them with Saudi intelligence connections, and, even though he was then found involved in the B.C.C.I. scandal, was apparently just fine as an "expert" as far as James Baker was concerned. (Not a single investigative journalist has seen fit to find out why Raymond Close was one of Baker's chosen "experts" for the Iraq Study Group, and it is doubtful that others on the panel knew much of anything.

James Baker doesn't have to explain anything. Iran's nuclear project is irrelevant to policy in Iraq. The Israeli refusal, or quasi-refusal, given Olmert, to speed up the pace of its chosen course of slow suicide through negotiation and surrender to devotees of Al-Hudaibiyya (say, did any Senator ask Baker about the Treaty of Al-Hudiabiyya? They didn't? Why didn't they, do you think? And do you think, if they had, he would have any idea what they were talking about? And do you think, since Baker spent years negotiating with assorted Arabs, traipsing back and forth, for example, to Damascus -- where he let slip information to Hafez al-Assad, in a fit of demonstrating just how much he knew, that led to the seizure and execution of two Israeli spies by the Syrians -- one more triumph of James Baker)--that he's ever cracked Qur'an, Hadith, the biographies of Muhammad, or has the faintest idea of what Muhammad's treaty with the Meccans in 628 A.D. means for Infidels signing treaties with Muslims today?

The hollow man. Leading mostly other hollow men. The kind of people business men like to appoint to their boards, or many boards, so that they can pick up an extra few hundred thousand for a meaningless meeting or two every year -- meaningless, but not quite as malevolent, in their non-influence as smiling potted plants, "dignified" people "worthy of respect" because of their "long experience" and all the rest of it, and therefore entitled to be ridiculously rewarded by others just like them, but here they had a serious task, and they produced a jumble of naive nonsense.

This war is turning out to be a great success (due to its "failure") All that needs to be done now is for america to pull out and then we can enjoy watching the sunni-blok and the shia-blok kill eachother. Right now it seems to everyone that it's been the worst war ever waged but it's really the best thing that we could have haved. The war will keep a 'unified' islam out of the question and hopefully both sides develop nuclear weapons and destroy eachother. Even tho it might have looked smarter to invade Iran instead (at the time), now it looks like iraq was indeed the best thing to do because of the enlarged sunni-shia conflict.

The ONLY reason we are perhaps not "winning" in Iraq is that it is not a stand up fight. These unbelievable COWARDS know that in a stand up fight we would clean their clocks in short order.

Therefore they wear civilian clothes and hide in amongst (innocents) and in Mosques so that if any non-combatants get killed the willing accomplices at CNN,al AP, etc. get some juicy footage.

I say pull the troops to the north with the kurds, use air power to LEVEL the parts of Baghdad that we know the al Sadr and al Badr brigades are and then send a message fo the pliticos. ARE WE DONE YET?

sorry, should be " send a message to the politcos in Baghdad"

"And why is there a necessary connection between the situation in Iraq, and what has come to be known to Bakerites of this world as the "Israeli-'Palestinian'" question, or still worse, becuase of the sinister reification involved, the "Israel/"Palestine" question, and Iraq? Because James Baker says so."

And james baker says so because king abdullah says so. The Royal Fiat, indeed.

Hugh,

You wrote "where he let slip information to Hafez al-Assad, in a fit of demonstrating just how much he knew, that led to the seizure and execution of two Israeli spies by the Syrians." To what does that refer? Eli Cohen? Or something later than that?

I just realized it can't be Eli Cohen - Assad wasn't in power in 1964-66.

ISG= I surrender gleefully

Nothing noble about this bunch of obsolete useless has-beens and wish-they-weres of varying degrees. I know a few of them personally, worked with 2 of them, and can attest to that.

3.) For every terrorist we shoot down, 3 will sprout up in his stead. 4.)The flames of islamic hate will be fanned for years.


LiEberal talking points. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. Anyone who reads the KKKoran is a terrorist-in-waiting.

Hey, OUR hate is also being fanned, but not because we are in Iraq. No, it's a little thing called 9/11. And then there are so many other kind and gentle things that these warm and cuddly islamo-pig Nazis do.

Henry. In light of this Baker Report business I have to concur. BAKER IS THE ULTIMATE dhimmi.

I've given this long hard thought.

The majority of the Iranian population are in their 20's and rebellious, they hate the stifling mullahcracy and Shari'a..but like Americans they are patriotic Iranians (and because of Iran's long history) more so than Americans.

But since Iran is an Islamic country, and even the mullah hating Iranian can't disavow or disassociate himsself from his religion (no more than the Christian in the west)..and since Iran is now defined by Islam.. there seems to be no chance of fomenting an internal civil war, or achieving even through a coup a regime change.

The President of Iran has less power than the President of the U.S. and in many aspects, he is merely a figure head..the real power in Iran rests with the Islamic Revolutionary Council (the Mullahs) and Al Khameini and his corps of mullahs, the Iranian parliament is nothing more than window dressing. that gives the mullahs an appearance of a democracy..and so it is with the President. The previous presidnet (Khatani) had no power either... so then what is Ahmyimanutjob's real job, with all of his bluster and blabber, he is a distraction..he focuses the energy of discontent outwardly on a foreign threat, and where no threat exists he creates one.. This is a tactic that is so old and tired, that we should recognize it easily.. Hitler did it when he demonized and scapegoated the Jews. Bush has done it when he demonized and scapegoated Saddam for 9-11.

Has Ahimanutjob been successful, does his antics and rhetoric fool the people?. we don't know, because we don't live there, have no connections nor speak Farsi..but I do know that many a modern young Iranian, especially those living in exile in the west, who want a regime change, do not want such a change at the expense of an attack on Iran.

So we have a dilemma.. Ahimanutjob can only blather and bluster, but has no real power when it comes to foreign policy.. that power lies in the hands of the Islamic Revolutionary Council (Ayatollahs presiding). But his blather and bluster has succeeded in consolidating the power of the mullahs, by distracting the rubes via the creation of a foreign threat (demonizing the other, something which this administration and the Christian right is also good at..demonizing the other, especially if the other is a fellow American).

If Iran is a threat to our security (our being America) then perhaps we should strike at it with bunker busting bombs, provided we have bombs that can descend through 40 or 50 feet or more of hardened subterranean concrete and caves built under Mountains...do we have the capability to take out nuclear facilites through aerial strikes?

I doubt it.. Bear in mind that the allies thought that they had successfully destroyed German's war production capacity through aerial bombardment of factories and railroads, yet Germany continued to produce weapons and munitions and even develop and engineer new "futuristic" weapons till the very end.

A land invasion is nonsense, unlike the Iraqi's the Iranians have fanatical volunteers, the Basiji, noted for their willingness to die in Jihad..During the Iraq Iran war young boys, too small to serve as cannon fodder in trenches, volunteered as human mine detectors.

Iran is not Iraq and an invasion would be costly beyond all accounting, in dollars and blood, and as our troops advanced into the Iranian landscape it would be advancing inside a spiders web, where virtually every Iranian alongside and behind them would be a suicide bomber or irregular fighter.. We would not be welcomed as we were in Iraq in that crazy 45 minutes after our troops entered Baghad. The effect would be the same as putting a car in a crusher.

So our only option is the aerial attack..and an aerial attack would be costly..not only because of Iran's air defenses (they claim to be able to take down stealth aircraft, thanks to help from the Russians).. but because they will retaliate on a global scale with battalions of shaheeds blowing themselves up, planting car bombs, prolly even in Washington, poisoning waters and carrying out random and targeted assassinations (like Malvo and Mohammad the DC Snipers).

Chaos and fear would reign, but at least we would know who the enemy is.. then again would we, considering that our politicos (Dems and Repugs)get so much bribe money from muslims (the Saudis and Iranians).

No. Eli Cohen, of the eucalyptus trees and much else, had long before that been exposed and executed by the Syrians. Others.

Anybody notice that more American troops have been killed in Iraq since the election? And the more that the baker report gets talked about, no doubt more soldiers will die in Iraq. That's how things work.

Baker came to Jerusalem shortly after the first Gulf War [March or April 1991]. To honor the occasion, a male nurse from Gaza came up to Jerusalem [there was no restriction on travel for Gazans in those days]. Our Gazan male nurse went to a bus stop and murdered four women waiting for a bus to go to work. I don't recall that Baker expressed any regrets. So I detest baker.

But he sounded so silly when he said at some sort of congressional hearing that I saw on TV, when he explained that he got his info about the Middle East from talking to the leaders there. Anyhow, he didn't talk to Israeli leaders. But what did he expect the Arab leaders to say? Did he expect them say to him that Sunnis kill Shi`ites because their rafidi dogs? And that Sunnis and Shi`ites have hated each other for 1350 years? Of course, they were going to blame everything on Israel. And maybe they knew that that's what he wanted to hear.

Nariz - you can thank Dianne Feinstein (among others) for supressing research on deep-penetration nuclear bombs for underground facilities. But also, the Administration - Rummy - chose not to fight for it, for whatever reason. They had the power to override D.F. and her associates but chose not to get scrappy. (
Scrappy? So un-Republican!)

As for Iran, it could be easily neutralized today with a strategic approach focusing on its numerous weaknesses, one that would not require invasion, or even deep penetration bombs. But a key element to these strategies is finding a leader who is not obsessed with PC. He will have to break things and kill people. He will have to fight a war that will end in total humiliation and defeat of the enemy. He has to have the power he needs for the job and the will to use it. Think of the Eigth Air Force and Curtis Lemay; of the Third Army and George Patton; of the First Marine Regiment and Chesty Puller. Find a guy like one of these.

Attacking Iran today is one thing. Attacking 1 or 2 years or more down the road may be another.

nariz, either take the required dose of meds, or OD. Either way, we've had enough of your anti-Christian histrionics / hysterics.







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