Only in Grand Rapids, Michigan and Saudi Arabia is everyone just fine with the face veil.
"Police Turn Down Jewelers’ Demand," by Shahid Raza Burney in Arab News, with thanks to Kemaste:
PUNE, 29 December 2006 — Pune Police Commissioner Dhananjay Jadhav outright rejected the demand of the Maharashtra Jewelers Federation (MJF) to ban veiled women from entering jewelry shops in Maharashtra unless they reveal their identity and show their faces before the surveillance camera.Rejecting the demand of the MJF the city police chief said that the police will not issue a “No Objection Certificate” (NOC) to the jewelers. He advised that the association should have taken into account the people’s sentiments before taking such a decision.
The president of the MJF Fatehchand Ranka had sought the permission from the state home minister, director general of police and the Pune police commissioner to allow the jewelers to display boards at the entrance of their shops banning the entry of veiled women, unless they revealed their faces.
The MJF’s demand evoked strong reactions from the clergy and members of the Muslim community. Female activist Razia Patel said that there were other ways to curb robberies in jewelry shops. “Such boards will hurt religious sentiments. It would simply deny a class of women customers,” she said.
Another activist Farouk Sayed said, “Wearing a veil is our tradition and forcing women to unveil their faces on camera is ridiculous. Moreover, this is not a foolproof method of security.” Salim Mohammed pointed out that this would not curb robberies. “Thieves will find other ways to rob a shop. Have the police been able to nab all the thieves who did not cover their faces,” he asked.
If you go to the Saudi Embassy web site and look at the information on obtaining visas to visit Saudi Arabia, you will find that they are quite insistent that the photograph submitted with the application be "full-face", not from the side. Presumably this is so that the person's whole face will be visible to aid in identification. They don't say anything about veils, but in other circumstances one would certainly interpret their requirements as forbidding a veil. Do the Saudis in fact allow women to appear fully veiled in their visa photographs? If not, doesn't this show that there isn't really any such religious requirement? (My reading of the visa rules is that although the adult male chaperone is in charge, each individual, including women and children, must submit an application and a photograph. I could be wrong, but I don't think that it is only the man whose photograph we are talking about.)
Somewhat off-topic, I found it striking that the site does not list a category of tourist visa.
Javaharlal Neru University graduates would be proud of this suicidal dhimmitude. Poor India.
Another activist Farouk Sayed said, “Wearing a veil is our tradition and forcing women to unveil their faces on camera is ridiculous. Moreover, this is not a foolproof method of security.” Salim Mohammed pointed out that this would not curb robberies. “Thieves will find other ways to rob a shop. Have the police been able to nab all the thieves who did not cover their faces,” he asked.
Hmmm................realy good point Salim. I never thought of it in that way.
Wish I could laugh about this but it is so depressing. Stop the world I want to get off!
Am I in a fuckin* Kafka novel or what?
One more example where Muslim sensibilities trump over security measures. Actually, Muslims have a lot of delicate feelings when it comes to jewelry shops. In Iran, followers of John the Baptist (Mandaeans) had a tradition of working as goldsmiths. It was one of the few occupations allowed to the kufir Mandaeans. However, in the past several years, Iranian Muslims have decided that they don't want to deal with or buy from Mandaean goldsmiths. So, young Mandaeans are not being allowed to train for or get permits to be goldsmiths, leaving many Mandaean families without a viable occupation. Most occupations in Iran are already reserved for Muslims only. For Muslims, the hands that created gold watches or gold rings will not taint my hands...or something like that.
Well , the latest feedback being --"Jewellers drop burqa ban demand....said it was prepared to adopt other security measures.It said the decision was taken to avoid hurting the religious sentiments of any community".
India is full of cheats and thieves veiled or otherwise. Someone's bumper sticker here reads:
"Don't cheat. Government of india hates competition !!"
Hmmm let me think here. Women in veils being asked to reveal themselves before a camera before entering a jewlery store to prevent roberies. Something like what happened in southern Ontario a couple months back where two men, one in a burqa robbed a jewlery story or more?
Now explain the purpose of the niqab, and burqa again?
To add to my post above:
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/thieves-take-care-of-airport-luggage/top/29784-3.html?xml
Vital facts:
"Thieves look after bags at airports. If you are planning to, fly you may just have to be extra cautious about your luggage.
Some recent CCTV footage shows baggage loaders in airports opening bags and suitcases and stealing precious items before the bags are put on the plane.
The visuals from the CCTV will make everyone think twice before they buy their flight tickets again.
The 20-minute-long footage shows a baggage loader, armed with a knife, opening bags right in front of his supervisors to steal money, jewellery and other items at the Mumbai international airport.
And when they do not find anything of value, they are content with taking perfumes and liquor bottles.
The visuals were shot in 2005 by Cambata Aviation after they received numerous complaints from passengers about missing luggage.
Cambata Aviation manages ground handling operations of 23 international airlines".
Read it all.
Another form of failed logic by the Muslims. Female Muslims cover themselves so they do not incite rape. Muslims can feel reassured among non-Muslims, because non-Muslim males do not need such ungodly devices to have self restraint.
It is completely irrelevant if a female Muslim shows her face, because keeping their face hidden is not the objective. However, Muslim females have an inferior status, and they have no self confidence to show their face. That is why they are so defensive about having to show their faces.
Everyone here and now, stop calling it a veil; it is a mask, dammit.
there is something very scary about a woman in a veil. It reminds one of a bandit or a black ghost.
You don't want to meet one in a lonely alley at dusk. Here a woman at a hospital had a heart attack after she suddelny saw a fully veiled woman down a dimly lit corridor in the night. Inside the hospital.
Can you please stop calling it a tradition?
Stop talking about modesty. This primitive all-covering dress exudes arrogance and menace.
Too bad the jewellers caved. They could have gotten creative by putting up signs that say, "Qatloo lok aao noko" (Circumcized pricks not welcome).
Besides, aren't Muslimahs banned from wearing jewellery anyway? It's not like they were turning off a huge portion of their customer base.
Nothing more irritating than businesses having to cater to people who are not their customers.
Pelayo, you're right. I'd go a step further and call them the KKK in black.
Also, where is the Shiv Sena when you need them?
rocky, ain"t that the truth! Ha, ha, ah! I was in a mall recently where I encountered the its. I turn my head and there stood two black figures. I was immediately startled, and my eyes bulged. What else could I do when all of the sudden I was facing two grim reapers.
Jwellers' demand is just.Sentiments of any group are to be respected till it does not encroach the freedom of others. If veil is that much sentimental isuue, jwellery should be bought only by their unveiled (male) conterparts. Further, those are crying for the veiled women's sentiments are not talking truth. Any (veiled) woman should not go to a jwellery shop/ any other place without male guardian accompanying her. This is a simple (shariat) solution as male guardian without veil will remain identifiable in case of theft.
Everyone here and now, stop calling it a veil; it is a mask, dammit.
Posted by: Pelayo
Exactly. And all bus riders in Grand Rapids should begin wearing masks whenever riding the bus. Any and all types of masks: from Lone Ranger type eye masks, to Old West stick-up-men type bandannas, to ski masks, to Halloween funny face masks, to old-style KKK hoods.
Apropos of the KKK, weren't there laws passed some years ago against them wearing their full hoods in public? It seems to me that all the pictures I've seen of them for 15 or more years show them still in their dunce capg, but with their faces exposed, while in photos from 40-50 years ago their hoods covered their heads entirely except for a couple of eye-holes. If there are such laws, surely they apply as much to the moslems as to the KKK.
Mother Ecclesiastica
Iqbal's solution was brilliant, and neatly sidesteps the issue of the Jewellers not getting permission to ban hooded Muslimahs from entering. Since a straightforward request by them isn't/wasn't going to be granted, the only other solution to this that would address their concerns about Mohammedan jewel heists would be to require any such hooded woman to go accompanied by her own... er 'guardian'. That way, no male con artist could pull off a fast one. Also, since it's Shariah compliant, Muslims can't complain, or else, they are guilty of blasphemy.
I also think Iqbal, despite his name, is not a Muslim, given his past posts, as well as this one. I don't see where you got it that he wants the sentiments of Muslims to be respected: he clearly stated that that respect stops when it encroaches the freedom of others.
Infidel Pride you are right. Mother Ecclesiastica has given his/her views without having in depth knowledge of Indian situation, esp. DHIMMI Indian politicians, who are ready to appease muslims at any cost. Recently PM Manmohan Singh opined that muslims of India should be shared resoures on priority basis---- a wonderful nonsense newer expected from him. Definitely my solution is aimed at teaching these unwanted Dhimmis a tough lesson and not aimed at veiled women.
"You'd be frightened too,........, if the men in your family threatened to saw off your arms, legs, and head if you didn't wear a MASK over your face....
Well, Mother Ecclesiastica, when the arms and legs of Infidels are sawn off, decapitated, raped, such bestial 'acts' do not stir the women among infidel haters a wee bit. Instead, they exult and celebrate. Those womenfolk, if they can be called so, have no milk of human kindness in them.
The so called "oppression of our women" by muslim women very often is craftily orchestrated to work exclusively to muslims' advantage only. Why should it be the Infidels' duty to rescue or empower them?
Another thing - why would someone covered head to toe bother about wearing jewellery? Any Pune readers here might want to get that question out to Bibi Razia Patel.
M E
Fine, if you say so. Just so you know, I'm on record on this site having repeatedly denounced all Muslims, including moderates. For me, the only good Muslim is the one who's no longer one.
When I lose one battle, I move to another battlefield where I have a better chance of winning. You seem to prefer to keep fighting at the same spot - with no variation in the outcome. Like you said, suit yourself.
Mother Ecclesiastica,
Thank God, you are alive ! I am petrified reading what you went through. The appeasers and leftists HAVE to perish.
Mother Ecclesiastica,
The appeasers,leftists and ill informed (sic)"scholars" that autopilotingly trot out "islam is also a path leading to yadayada religion blahblah" remind me of a telling story,I would want to share with you:
There was this idiotised nincompoop who wanted to "save" the fish from drowning in water. Hence scooped them up and hung them atop trees.
We are here to be HUMAN. Not to play GOD.
Infidel Pride,
They don't wear jewellery, they only steal. What is not mentioned in this report is the fact that security cameras have actually recorded veiled women stealing. These women never enter a shop alone, but in groups of at least 4-5. One woman from the group asks a salesman/girl to show some cheap trinket, while the rest of the group takes a walk through the showroom, stealing when they think nobody was around. The security staff cannot identify the face, and we can just imagine the headlines if all 5 were strip searched while leaving.