The article accurately notes that this fatwa could have far-reaching implications on Sunni-Shi'ite conflicts everywhere, particularly in the growing Saudi-Iranian rivalry, and concerning the Shi'ite minority within Saudi Arabia. Sunni-Shi'ite Jihad Update. "Revered Saudi cleric denounces Shi'ites as infidels," from Reuters:
DUBAI, Dec 29 (Reuters) - An influential cleric of Saudi Arabia's hardline Sunni school of Islam has denounced Shi'ite Muslims as "infidels" in a new religious edict that comes amid rising sectarian tension in the region.
"The rejectionists (Shi'ites) in their entirety are the worst of the Islamic nation's sects. They bear all the characteristics of infidels," Sheikh Abdel-Rahman al-Barrak said in the fatwa, or ruling, distributed on Islamist Web sites.
"They are in truth polytheist infidels, though they hide this," it said, citing theological differences 14 centuries after the death of the Prophet Mohammad, such as reverence of shrines which followers of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi school consider abhorrent.
Concern is growing in Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam, over Shi'ite-Sunni violence in Iraq which has taken the northern neighbour to the brink of civil war. Sunni-Shi'ite tensions are also high in Lebanon, where Shi'ites are leading efforts to bring down a Sunni-led cabinet.
"The Sunni and Shi'ites schools of Islam are opposites that can never agree, there can be no coming together unless Sunnis give up their principles," the fatwa said.
Barrak, an independent scholar, has come to be regarded by many as the highest authority for Wahhabi Muslims.
Clerics of the austere Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam have long dismissed Shi'ites as virtual heretics and Saudi Arabia's Shi'ite minority complains of second class treatment.But Barrak's fatwa was the strongest in recent years.
The fatwa, which was published on Barrak's Web site in response to a follower's question, also appeared to criticise efforts by some government-backed Saudi preachers at reconciliation between Sunnis and Shi'ites.
Saudi Arabia fears that violence between Sunnis and Shi'ites could lead to the break-up of Iraq and spill over its borders.
Barrak was among 38 clerics who issued a statement this month calling on world Sunnis to support their brethren in Iraq.
Strange, I do not see any difference between the two cults in their thirst for the infidel's blood!
Well, how long will it be before a Shi'ite cleric calls all Sunnis "infidels?"
Surely, Islam will be the extinction of all mankind if it is not eradicated. Not even Muslims are safe from its thirst for human blood.
This type of Islamic in-house fighting should be encouraged at every opportunity. I am sure it's on their respective agendas to "deal" with each other after the West has fallen. We just need to find a way to corece them to re-arrange their list and put the lingering Sunni / Shia rift as a top priority.
I agree with Hermit, in that I see no difference between the two sects as far as the threat they pose to all of us infidels.
I'll try to wipe the smile off my face.
I hope they have a go at each other.
It shows you how right the Fitzgerald refrain of divide to conquer really is: the intellectual ossification required by the cult bars any form of compromise, even internally. Simply let them follow their natural inclinations and these guys will cut each others' throats until the Mahdi comes.
Then they will cut his throat.
Without the oil revenue the Islamic world is just two mad dogs in a barrel. You might feel bad for the poor fellas, but how nuts do you have to be to think you should climb into the barrel and talk some sense into them?
OT, but pretty big deal.
Saddam Hussein will be executed in the next 24 hours, according to AP.
Shi'ite clerics rejoice in Friday services.
Great news !
If we can just wait long enough, maybe they will kill each other off and voila - problem solved !
It's almost like the story of the 2 whores fighting over who's baby it was (re. king Solomon)
All Muslims are polytheists, they all worship muhammed (the false prophet) even though they say they don't. Yet draw a cartoon of muhammed and they all go crazy!
Then they also worship allah. (the moon god of arabia)
Then for some reason Muslims bow to, make pilgrimages to, and otherwise worship the kaaba, which contains their "sacred stone" and the various idols of the pagan tribes of arabia!
Sounds like polytheists to me!
Go Chargers!
"Sounds like polytheists to me!"
Indeed, it's usually true that the deranged and unhinged among us project their own failings and shortcomings upon others. Whenever you see or hear of a prominent person belching bile and poison about the perversions and sins of others, chances are THEY are as deep into it as anyone ever could be.
Thats right!!
I'm deep into Jesus Christ!!
Go Chargers!!
Best news I've heard in a long time.
Go Sheikh Abdel-Rahman al-Barrak!!
A monumentally violent situation in Mecca would be problematic for Saudi Arabia. Hand to hand (or sword to neck) fighting of even a million Muslims (a fraction of foreigners on the Hajj) would be an unprecedented event.
Calls for a Sunni-Shiite Jihad, fighting over who defiled the "holy place", could spread world-wide.
However, it may amount to nothing. Most Muslims visiting Mecca are not inclined to violence, and the Jihadis are busy.
I believe the Wahhabi term for Shi'ites is "Rafidha". That right?
The article called Barrack "the highest authority" among Saudis but I am not sure about that. The Mufti of Saudi Arabia is usually a member of the Al-Sheikh family. THOSE are the guys who are the real authority since anyone who goes against an Al-Sheikh will probably find himself in one of the kingdom's many jails. Right now "liberal" have the upper hand in KSA (a "liberal" being someone who thinks a woman MIGHT be capable of operating a motor vehicle).
I believe the best chance for Western Civilization to survive is to stop enriching these idiots by buying their oil. Once that happens, they will soon slink back into the oblivion in which we found them circa 1914, cutting each other's heads off and washing themselves with dirt per a certain comical sunnah.
New Year
Same Old Hate
"polytheist infidels"
Well, I'm a polytheist - but I absolutely refuse to be called infidel or non-believer in my own country or in any country in the West. It's "Them" that are out-of-step, & "non-believers."
A monumentally violent situation in Mecca would be problematic for Saudi Arabia. Hand to hand (or sword to neck) fighting of even a million Muslims (a fraction of foreigners on the Hajj) would be an unprecedented event.
Dammit Agrippa, you've done it now. As I read this passage apparently my eyes rolled back in their sockets, I spouted a glistening sweat and broke into a perverted smile.
The gals in my office just complained to the manager that I've been looking at the Internet porn, and now my boss is gonna turn my desk around my monitor is always in full view of everybody so as to discourage such alleged behavior in the future.
I would like to wish both sides enormous success!
And may it happen quickly!
The Pot calling the kettle black.
The ONLY time these folks aren't acting barbaric and murdering EACH OTHER is when they have a common enemy.
is al-Barrak confused ? or does he really mean that his enemy's enemies are his enemies too ?
Hmmm...if the Saudi Sunni's start fighting the Shi'ites, perhaps that will mean that they'll have to cut their budget for radical mosques in the West.
Overall, any Sunni/Shi'ite confict is a win/win situation for the West.
The execution of Saddam Hussein will exacerbate matters wonderfully. For he who has recently been adopting a magnanimous tone, addressing himself to all "Iraqis" and not only to his Sunni supporters, and has even repeatedly called on "Iraqis" not to "hate" the Infidels but only their governments (he may also, in his wild calculations, thought that there was a chance that the Americans would see him as a possible savior-of-their-bacon in Iraq, and free him), will in death be a Sunni martyr, a figure of myth and poetry, the Sunni Arab put to death by those Rafidite dogs and Persians.
We wish to weaken the Camp of Islam. The execution of Saddam Hussein will help promote that.
And so, too, will such things as the Saudi cleric's judgment expressed in the article above.
Here are his words:
"The rejectionists (Shi'ites) in their entirety are the worst of the Islamic nation's sects. They bear all the characteristics of infidels," Sheikh Abdel-Rahman al-Barrak said in the fatwa, or ruling, distributed on Islamist Web sites.
"They are in truth polytheist infidels, though they hide this," it said, citing theological differences 14 centuries after the death of the Prophet Mohammad, such as reverence of shrines which followers of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi school consider abhorrent."
Reading such words puts a bounce in my step and a smile on my face. Many no doubt have experienced something similar.
THEY call US infidels? So they think THEY are holy and we are unholy? So then, let's see who it is that they worship.
Read on:
Mohamed grew up next to the well of Zumzum. The Hajj already existed. The worship of Allah the Arabian moon god was already in the Kaabah. The hajj was there, Allah was there, the well of Zumzum was there. How did Mohamed begin anything?
His father’s name was Abdullah the servant of Allah. What he did was go into the Kaabah and removed one stone for each day of the Lunar year and left the Kaabah one black stone. All Mohamed did was under the influences of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism, attempt to monotheize the pagan religions of ancient Arabia.
He saw that, at that time, Christians did not fight with each other and Jews did not fight with each other. He thought that he could stop the Arabian tribes from slaughtering each other by having one monotheistic religion.
Well folks....THAT didn't work!
As is pointed out, Mohamed, it is a fact recognized by Islam, was a pedophile. He married, at the age of fifty four, a six year old girl and took her virginity at the age of nine. They call HIM a prophet - a sex criminal!
Several years ago there was a TV news documentary that featured wealthy Saudi Arabians with private jets going to India buying impoverished girls for a few hundred dollars, some of them as young as nine, taking them back to harems in Saudi Arabia. “How can you do this?” They were asked. “What’s wrong with it, our prophet did it,” was the reply. Now, to them, this is a prophet. I don’t think God sees pedophilia as holy. He deflowered a little girl.
They call Christians and Jews infidels....they call other brands of islam infidels....but they believe they (the Saudis) are Holy? Men who buy children for sex slaves?
There is also some truth to the fact that the Saudis are in bed with our politicians - the puppets that dance for------the corporate world.
Bunch of hypocrites.
By the way....has anyone seen Joe Kennedy trying to get people to sign up for 40% cheaper fuel oil from Venezuela?
1. Chavez can stick his oil where the sun doesn't shine.
2. Who is pulling Joe Kennedy's strings? Anyone? Anyone?
Don't y'all worry too much. The west will not tolerate a Sunni-Shiite war. Our leaders are concerned about oil supplies and the economic ramifications that might result. They are not concerned about how the supposed economic tumult will affect our lives but how it will affect their political careers; we are secondary.
The other group of people who will try to stop the Islamic fratricide is the "life is precious" crowd. They are the gun-controlling tree huggers who believe in the "if it saves one life it is worth it" mantra of the leftist do-good control freaks. These are the people who wanted us to intervene in Bosnia because the Muslim "victims" looked like grandpa and grandma, not like George and Sapphire Stevens. The murderous rampages in Rwanda were mostly ignored by these lily white limosine liberals. The Sunnis and Shiites will not be allowed to kill each other.
Hugh is right. Anything that pits Muslims against other Muslims benefits the West.
Posted by: US_infidel
Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
What's to stop Sunni on Shia violence from hitting neighborhoods in Europe and America, blowing up storefront mosques and killing innocent infidels?
We can't sit back and watch the movie until all (meaning every single one) Muslims are out of the West and our doors closed to them for all time.
Since that will never happen in this PC environment we live in, we had better hope for something else.
PMK
"..whats to stop Sunni on Shia violence.....in Europe and America..killing innocent infidels?"
.........................................
I don't want to stop Sunni/Shia from killing each other but the government has spent a lot of money teaching me how to stop someone from killing infidels. You can interpret this anyway you want but the way I see it and I've said it before...things are not going to get better until muslim violence wakes some people up. When all who can be awakened are, islamists are going to reap the whirlwind. In other words, things can't get better until they get worse.
To: Sheikh Abdel-Rahman al-Barrak
Thank You! Keep up your efforts!
From: An American Infidel
This is one of those situations that give the lie to the old saying "my enemy's enemy is my friend". Actually they both are still our enemies.
And, changing the topic...
He (Mohammed) married, at the age of fifty four, a six year old girl and took her virginity at the age of nine.
Posted by: The Goobs
And where is the public outrage about this? Lolita was 12, and what an outcry there was about her!
If the Shi'ites are believed to be "infidels" by the Sunni, will the Saud close Mecca to them as well?
No more Shi'ites on Hajj, that will go over well.
for all those naysayers about islam is so powerful, and taking over, you see for yourself, they cannot even control themselves, they kill each other faster than if we did it. islam is weak, and cannot unity each other, give them enough rope, and they will hang themsleves so fast, will make their heads fall off! LOL... and l do have a gigantic smirk when l read that story..
Don't be so delighted.
This is nothing new.
The Sunni have been persecuting, oppressing, and murdering Shi'a for 1,400 years. The Wahhabis and the Deobandi have a special place in their hearts for the Shi'a.
A deadly place.
Here are links to Shi'a denunciations of Sunni Deobandi idolatry and heresy. http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/education/0000216.php; http://www.shianews.com/low/asia/news_id/0001786.php
This link is to a Sunni condemnation of Wahhabis as "khawariji heretics" and a recommendation to kill them on sight attributed to the Prophet (pbuh): http://www.yanabi.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=25440
This link is to a denunciation of the Wahhabi "heretics" by a previous Grand Sheikh of Mecca http://www.amislam.com/fitnah.htm
The Religion of Peace.
such as reverence of shrines which followers of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi school consider abhorrent.
Isn't that rock in Mecca a shrine?
BalancedView....you seem to have information about Mary's age which is NOT in the Scriptures. It does not say she was 13. God did not have sex with Mary!
Mary was of age to be engaged so your suggestion that she was a child is sick and your comments are anti-God and anti-semitic. Are you a Muslim or an athiest?
“BalancedView....you seem to have information about Mary's age which is NOT in the Scriptures. It does not say she was 13. God did not have sex with Mary! Mary was of age to be engaged so your suggestion that she was a child is sick and your comments are anti-God and anti-semitic. Are you a Muslim or an athiest?”
My Goodness! What an attack! I won’t dignify your statement with a response but to answer your question – I was raised and baptized a Southern Baptist. Ignorance can be a very dangerous thing and a little bit of knowledge can be worst. Please consider the following taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia regarding Mary’s most likely age when she conceived:
Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated. All this agrees well with the language of the Evangelists. St. Luke (1:27) calls Mary "a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph"; St. Matthew (1:18) says, when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost". While the teaching of the Catholic Church that Mary was a virgin is not accepted by a number of liberal Christian scholars who argue that the Greek term parthenos in Luke 1:27 does not necessarily have to mean "virgin [intacta]" but that there is also evidence for it signifying any "young woman", it is generally agreed that Mary was very young when she conceived Jesus. Some biblical scholars have placed Mary’s age at conception between 12 and 14 years.
Also, since you seem to think that Muslims are anti-God and anti-Mary, please consider the Islamic view of the Virgin Mary:
And We Made son of Mary and his mother a Sign ... (23.50)
Mary, mother of Jesus, enjoys a singularly distinguished and honored position amongst women in the Qur'an: She is the only woman directly named in the Book; declared (uniquely along with Jesus) to be a Ayat Allah or Sign of The God to mankind (23.50); as one who "guarded her chastity" (66.12); an obedient one (66.12); chosen of her mother and dedicated to Allah whilst still in the womb to the-God (3.36); uniquely (amongst women) Accepted into service by Allah (3.37); cared for by (one of the prophets as per Islam) Zakariya (Zecharias) (3:37); that in her childhood she resided in the Temple and uniquely had access to Al-Mihrab (understood to be the Holy of Holies), and was provided with heavenly 'provisions' by Allah (3:37); a Chosen One (3.42); a Purified One (3.42); a Truthful one (5.75); a fulfillment of Prophecy (66.12); a vessel for the Spirit of The-God breathed into her (66.12); her child conceived through "a Word from The-God" (3.45); and "exalted above all women of The Worlds/Universes" (3.42).
The Qur'an relates detailed narrative accounts of Maryam (Mary) in two places: 3:35-47 and 19:16-34.
The account given in (Sura 19 of) The Qur'an is nearly identical with that in the Gospel according to Luke, and it should be noted that both of these (Luke, Sura 19) begin with an account of the visitation of an angel upon Zakariya (Zecharias) and Good News of the birth of Yahya (John), followed by the account of the annunciation.
The account in (Sura 3 of) the Qur'an tracks the accounts in Apocrypha, namely the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew and the Gospel of James, regarding the use of "rods" to determine a guardian/husband after she reached the age of puberty (3.44), and, the account of the scandal caused upon the discovery of her with child (19.27-28), both of which are not recorded in the canonical Gospels.