This article seems to be devoted to establishing that this "vision that seems to have unsettled Washington" is really nothing to be concerned about: the jihadists can't establish a caliphate anyway, so why are we bothering to oppose them? And it is indeed unlikely in the extreme that a caliphate will be established that would be accepted by the majority of Muslims today. Reuters even consigns this story to its "Oddly Enough" feature series, which usually contains stories about man-eating chickens and Jell-O wrestling.
But what no one quoted in this story ever discusses is the fact that however unlikely the prospect of success, the jihadists will soldier on, attempting to advance their cause by both violent and non-violent means.
Also, to dismiss the caliphate as "just part of (al Qaeda's) war of slogans" fails to recognize how potent slogans can be in formulating public opinion -- witness the success of the Palestinian cause in winning global support through canny use of terms like "occupation" and "apartheid" (and "Palestinian" itself). However unlikely its realization, the quest for the caliphate is increasingly popular -- at least by the evidence of election results in the P.A., Egypt, Algeria, and elsewhere, and that fact could have extraordinarily serious consequences.
By Andrew Hammond for Reuters, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
RIYADH (Reuters) - The creation of an Islamic caliphate, or empire, has long formed part of al Qaeda's world view, and it is a vision that seems to have unsettled Washington.But experts say it will remain just a militants' dream.
Before he went into hiding in 2001, Osama bin Laden often talked of deposing Muslim rulers, seen as beholden to Western powers, and abolishing modern state borders to unite all Muslims under a caliphate -- an Islamic state where God's word was law ruled over by a caliph, or "successor" to Prophet Mohammad.
Now al Qaeda militants are talking about setting up a caliphate in west Iraq, and militants calling themselves al Qaeda in Yemen also said recently a caliphate is their goal.
Since September, President Bush has warned several times that al Qaeda wants to set up a violent, radical Islamic empire based in Iraq, to unite Muslims under one aegis.
Baghdad was once the center of an Islamic empire that lasted for four centuries -- but experts say the chances of a revival of the ancient Islamic institution are remote.
"Al Qaeda could set up an Islamic state in the west of Iraq, if there is no American army there. But it would be difficult for them to penetrate any other state where there is an army and state apparatus," said Saudi analyst Faris bin Houzam.
"Their big dream is to set up an Islamic state, but there's nothing to suggest it could happen," he added.
[...]
"I can see the whole Arab world falling into sectarian violence, so I can't see this caliphate happening," said London-based anthropologist Madawi al-Rasheed, referring to Sunni-Shi'ite tensions in Iraq and Lebanon.
"This is just part of (al Qaeda's) war of slogans."
[...]
Lebanese historian Kamal Salibi said the region had already failed to unite under the banner of Arab nationalism after World War Two.
"It didn't work with Arab nationalism, and with pan-Islamism it is working less," he said. "The likelihood that states would give up their sovereignty is now more remote than ever before."
[...]
Al-Rasheed said the word is being used more and more in a variety of contexts to signify a morally correct order. It is used by mainstream political parties, Muslim communities and politically interested activists on the Internet.
"With new communications there is a revival of the idea of a caliphate but as a virtual community with no territorial boundaries," she said, pointing to "diaspora" Muslims in Europe.
"Today, in the 21st century, it's a dream of Muslim activists."
Political groups who have indicated a desire to set up a caliphate in their own patch include the Islamist movement in Somalia, Morocco's main opposition group Al Adl Wal Ihssane (Justice and Charity) and Islamist militants in Central Asia.
The spiritual head of Nigeria's 70 million Muslims is referred to by followers as "caliph" and the Muslim region of the country is referred to as the Sokoto Caliphate.
Jemaah Islamiah, the biggest militant organization in southeast Asia, also dreams of setting up an Islamic state across the region, perhaps using the title "caliphate."
But in the Arab world, Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood has chosen not to focus its efforts on the goal of a caliphate, though scholars have often noted that the seminal Arab Islamist group arose -- perhaps filling a certain psychological need -- only four years after the caliphate was abolished in Istanbul.
The Ottoman empire fashioned itself as the inheritor of the first caliphates centered in Damascus, Baghdad and Cairo until Turkey's secular founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk formally ended the office in 1924, in what Muslims have often viewed as a British imperial plot.
"For most of the mainstream and less mainstream political parties of political Islam, the borders of the contemporary state have been accepted," said As'ad AbuKhalil from Lebanon, who teaches politics at the U.S. California State University.
"There is absolutely no credence to the notion that the quest for the caliphate is the overriding goal of the Islamist movement in the region."
Let these fools attempt to set up some amorphous caliphate. This might be a good thing for the West. These delusional kooks will probably fight one another to the death for the title of caliph.The more fighting within the ummah, the better for the West.
"But what no one quoted in this story ever discusses is the fact that however unlikely the prospect of success, the jihadists will soldier on, attempting to advance their cause by both violent and non-violent means".
The caliphate concept is as based in reality as their view of Jewish people (Israel) and other Unbelievers, but all beliefs, no matter how crazy, will have consequences. That is reality. The consequences will be the meaning of the belief. Just because its crazy doesn't mean it should not be taken seriously.
Deep in this belief-system is a need to control and a hatred-envy of the free mind. They have done much to take away freedoms we once took for granted at airports and other places. They get-off on fear because of their emptiness. That is why we must take the CAIR and other attempts to corrode airport security very seriously so that they do not enable a condition that would require martial law.
President Lincoln, during the civil war, noted that the main reason to detain the known terrorists in his time was so that they would not create such a condition that would require martial law. Lincoln would see that as our danger now and would have CAIR investigated under the RICO legislation. Deep down, these deceivers envy the free mind and wish to make their misery universal.
The Islamic caliphate is a dream, (probably a wet one gone bad).
But experts say it will remain just a militants' dream
Dreams are dreams until they become reality.
I believe there will be a caliphate established in Bagdad and will be funded by the Saudis among others; the West might also buy in for the "solution" to the Iraq question.
It is both a "good thing" but also a very "bad thing."
A good thing in the sense that the immams running and backing the calipate will actually prevent Israel from being a nuclear wasteland; a very bad thing, because eventually the caliph will stumble upon the notion of moving to Jerusalem.
Also, the ape who sees green glowing things at the UN; and whose fingers would like to play with nuclear buttons when their are not busy goosing the dancing girls, also believes his 12th immam will establish a caliphate.
Nope, I don't dismiss this caliphate idea at all and believe it will ultimately lead to disaster for the West whose leaders are too cowardly to squash these maggots!
If I can grasp and understand the order of battle of America's enemies, and the fact that we are slowly being encircled, why can't the elite who have the power to do something?
"Al Qaeda could set up an Islamic state in the west of Iraq, if there is no American army there. But it would be difficult for them to penetrate any other state where there is an army and state apparatus," said Saudi analyst Faris bin Houzam.
"Their big dream is to set up an Islamic state, but there's nothing to suggest it could happen," he added.
So where's his head? Islamic rule is the highest rule in the "new democracy of Iraq" The brothers are just fighting it out. Those that live in the Mid-East know Islamic states are merely small caliphates anyway. This guy's assumption is the nation-state and since Islam is a theocracy, it would need defined borders. It could only operate where there were no other nations' army or police forces operate? Hey, It's wake up time!
We too have beliefs that are delusional. Not all people love freedom. This belief-system has already taken away many freedoms in America. It was not that long ago that getting on a plane was only a little more complex than getting in a car and driving someplace. Now, because of these people, we must go through many hoops to do what we once took for granted. They take no responsibility for that either and will not do so. We must be realistic.
The belief-system has an envy of the free mind, and a desperate need to control other people. They may not be conscious of their motives, but deep down the Brownshirt Hopper and Co. would like to take away even more freedoms by enabling and creating a condition that requires martial law.
Caliphate debated at WaPo:
Akbar: Caliphate Nonsense with comments
caliphate site:washingtonpost.com
MJ Akbar's website
If I can grasp and understand the order of battle of America's enemies, and the fact that we are slowly being encircled, why can't the elite who have the power to do something?
We can EASILY destroy islam and turn this "generational war" into a "one year war or less."
We just don't want to, that's all!
Andrew Hammond must be a totally gormless fool who completely misses the point.
Dreams of a reinstituted Caliphate are no more or less delusional than Nazism's dream of a 1,000 years of the Third Reich or the USSR's attempt at global dominance. But those nostalgists for the good old days of the 7th century are no less murderously minded in pursuit of their idea of utopia, and that's the issue.
The global jihad has, over the last couple of decades, claimed at least two million lives if you count the 8-year war between then putatively secular Iraq and newly Islamified Iran as part of it, the 100,000 deaths in Algeria as the Salafist Group tried to take power, the Syrian Baathist slaughter of 20,000 Islamists at Hamma, etc.
A couple of things I have often wondered about include the fact that not only do these people want to kill those who don't submit to Allah, but they kill each other, via the sectarian violence....Any caliphate established will present a struggle for power, thus leading to it's implosion...Any form of government, let a alone a religious caliphate can't survive under such circumstances....
I also have wondered that if Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, how this can be when these different sects are killing each other???...I realize there is growth thru birth rates, but the religion of "peace" has a long history of violence, not only with the infidel, but within it's own self, too......Sunnis killing Kurds, killing Shi-ites, killing Sunnies, killing Druze, etc.....the only growth there is in the number of homocides in the name of Allah....and less we forget the idea of killing ones self for jihadi puroposes...(i.e. strapping an explosive to your waste and detonating it on a crowded bus so you can have sex with 72 virgins in paradise!).....All of this proves that Islam is unstable and warped in it's teachings and ideology, and as a result is doing more harm to itself that it would care to admit.....
Islamic caliphate a dream? more of a nightmare set upon humanity, killing all the time for all reasons.
We should help fuel the desire for a caliphate.
Oiznop-
What you are saying is logical. However, there is no logic with these people. For example, the consequences of the belief-system is that it has created a condition in which that which we once took for granted (easily getting on and off planes) is crippled beyond what we would ever have thought possible, and rather than take responsibility for that, they blame others for enforcing the condition (extreme security) which the belief-system created in the first place. They are delusional and even blame Jews for the totalitarian conditions that they have created at airports.
We must be realistic on this matter. Whether it is the Brownshirts Hooper and CAIR or the psychotic-in-Iran, they will take no responsibility for the conditions they create and will do those things that undermine security at airports and other places as they camouflage their mental illness using the 1st amendment protection of freedom of religion.
However, I'm sure that there are many Muslims who see the truth and I think they must come out of the shadows and condemn the mentally ill that have taken away our freedoms. The mentally ill want to create a condition all over America that we see at airports. They will pretend to deplore that if it happens, but deep down they will find satisfaction in their foot-binding of the free mind.
These belief-system mental cases have done more to cripple our freedom than the Nazis. That is the truth. Now, they wish to enable and create circumstances that would require martial law and will take no responsibility for that if it happens, just as they have taken no responsibility for the totalitarian conditions they have created at airports. It's only a few years ago that we took for granted the ease with which we got on and off planes at airports. They are more dangerous than the Nazis.
"Al Qaeda could set up an Islamic state in the west of Iraq, if there is no American army there. But it would be difficult for them to penetrate any other state where there is an army and state apparatus," said Saudi analyst Faris bin Houzam.
What has he been smoking? The terrorists currently have no difficulty in penetrating many countries borders and the soldiers and policemen are looking for them. (or so we hope they are looking for them).
If I can grasp and understand the order of battle of America's enemies, and the fact that we are slowly being encircled, why can't the elite who have the power to do something?
Because the elites are making money off of the China trade and importation of Muslim oil. You are loyal to America, they are not. They could care less if buying Saudi oil means funding Wahabbi mosques and madrassas all over the world... And yes we have some Saudi funded madrassas here (USA) And we have tons of Saudi funded mosques here
Yawn, there's nothing to worry about....
/hit the snooze button
The al qaeda manual was just for fun.
The dream of Adolf Hitler -- "heute Deutschland, morgen die ganze Welt" -- was impossible of fulfillment, but in just trying, Hitler managed to cause the deaths of some 60 million people and damage, possibly forever, the civilization, and self-confidence, of Europe.
The dream of the Comintern and of some in the Soviet Union, of the proletariat of the world uniting, never came to pass (in fact, it is the plutocrats who have united, and who possess an unseemly admiration for each other and an indifference to local, i.e. national, loyalties), but in not coming to pass, nonetheless Communist dictatorships were either directly inflicted on many countries, as all those of Eastern and Central Europe, or helped to come into being, as with Communist China and North Korea.
In other words, while the "Caliphate" may be impossible of achievement, that and other, less dramatic or sensationalist goals of Muslims world-wide -- are being achieved. Kashmir, and the rest of India, is threatened. Buddhists in southern Thailand are under assault. Christians in the Moluccas are being persecuted and murdered. Hindus have been hounded out of Bangladesh and Pakistan. The remaining non-Muslims in Afghanistan (first the Jewish traders in the wool trade, then the Hindus) have been forced out of Afghanistan. The intense desire to destroy Israel remains widely shared, among not only Arab Muslims but also those who have decided to abandon, or downplay, other possible identities and to embrace only Islam (as those who support the Islamic Republic of Iran).
It was characteristically silly of the Bush Administration, that does not dare to worry aloud, or perhaps worry behind the scenes either, about the islamization of Western Europe, but to prate, now and then, about those who want the establishment of a "Caliphate." The Bush Administration worries like chicken-little about skies that are not falling, and allows others to thereby mock it, and fails to call attention to the real menace, which may not amount to a world-wide Caliphate but is grim indeed.
They do not know where to put their feet and hands. They squawk, prate of "victory" in Iraq without having any sense of how to use the situation in Iraq to divide and demoralize the Camp of Islam. Fools, while still other fools can only criticize the Bush Administration not for conducting the war with insufficient sangfroid and ruthlessness, but for conducting it at all.
That's the mess.
Oiznop-
The caliphate is only a minor example of the belief-system delusions. The most dangerous thing we face is their creation of totalitarian conditions everywhere they go. Look at the bizarre deception and self-deception of people such as CAIR and Hooper calling for Muslims to file civil rights violations at airports. Their belief-system has created totalitarian conditions at airports beyond what we would have ever thought possible only ten years ago. They take no responsibility for their actions and the belief-system confers self-righteousness-just as it did with the Nazis as they blame their victims.
It is sad to contemplate how freely we got on and off planes only a few years ago. This belief-system hates freedom, shifts blame to its victims. Its architecture is deception and violence and it must create the kind of totalitarian condition that they have created at airports. It's very sad to remember the freedoms we have lost at airports. They wish to take away more freedoms.
They hate confronting reality as they hate-envy the free mind. God protect our lovely freedoms and destroy this blight called Islam. They must not do to America what they have done to our airports, which were really free places only a decade ago. God protect America from them.
I sent this one off earlier in the week, I think it's on topic. It’s posted to encourage all to contact our elected representatives. The thumb-rule I’ve heard is that a Senator’s office will take notice when it receives fifty independent letters.
Mr. President;
I understand why you have chosen a policy of attempting to apply a Western value system to the Islamic world. Our Country has been a beacon of Freedom and democracy; we recognize that these should be universal values. It makes us feel good as a people to encourage their spread to a part of the world that seems hopeless. I believed in your plan and supported you with my vote and campaign contributions.
As our plan moves sideways, we have an obligation to study the issue and ask ourselves why it is not working. You are doing this as this letter is being written on my end. The issue is very disturbing to me. As you consider the briefs you get from your aides, I feel the obligation as a Citizen to share with you my opinion on the subject, if for nothing else than to go on the record for my kids to read someday.
Following the September 11 attacks, I picked up a copy of the Qu’ran to try to understand the faith of the men who flew the planes. I read both the Qu’ran and Bible from cover to cover that year. In the time since, I’ve tried to set some time aside every day to study Islamic history and beliefs.
I have found no case where an Islamic population, large enough to exercise its political will, has peacefully co-existed with a neighbor of a different faith over a long period of time. I attribute this to the teachings of Mohammed, who through the Qu’ran and hadith, has established a political, military, and spiritual system that will forever be hostile to its neighbors. In my opinion, Mohammed was a man of evil. Through its history, the Islamic world seems to have selectively eliminated intellectuals hostile to Mohammed’s ideology, and awarded the obedient with multiple wives. It disturbs me to come to the conclusion that a large number of Muslims, and I can’t estimate the percentage, may be incompatible with the value system that you and I share.
Please consider a strategy of containment of the Islamic world. I would suggest policies of ending Muslim immigration, encouraging alternative energy sources, and, when the time is appropriate, a Constitutional Amendment banning the teachings of Mohammed and humanely repatriating those who choose to retain the belief system.
I believe that attempts to assimilate a large Islamic presence into the United States will result in Balkanization of our Country, and eventually more blood in the streets. Please do what you can to prevent that from happening.
Very Respectfully;
Here is the best synopsis on islam I've found,
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19238_Its_In_the_Koran
I dont blame muslims for wanting a Caliphate, I want one myself, and I am not a muslim...as readers here should know. I would try and establish one here in sunny California USA, but 'Arnold the terminator', and numerous Hollywood celebrities, already have a Caliphate here. Californias Caliphate is called 'Southern California' by Hollywood believers.
You can see how well the Caliphate is doing by looking at porn videos. Most all of them were made in S California.
New York also has a Caliphate, Hillary Clinton is the Caliph. You can tell how well that Caliphate is doing by the number of bars, and strip joints there are. Also that sea of yellow cabs, each being driven by a muslim, who also wants his own Calphate, is telling.
I may have to give up my quest for a Caliphate and start going to church. All the good spots to one are already taken...
"Al Qaeda could set up an Islamic state in the west of Iraq, if there is no American army there. But it would be difficult for them to penetrate any other state where there is an army and state apparatus," said Saudi analyst Faris bin Houzam.
Good-let them set up an official state. It will then be easier to wipe this scourge out-whether the Muslims themselves do it or a bunch of B-52's
do it.
Hugh-
It is a mess. But I think that folks like you and Robert are going to be part of a larger picture that will finally prevent what we now see at airports from becoming a world-wide reality. I have only lately understood how important Jihadwatch is for preventing that from happening. Being hated by such as Hooper and CAIR is a great honor. So you folks are complimented and honored everywhere for your work.
famous last words:
"he was such a quiet neighbor".
and a real problem is a society (us) that is dependent. dependent on our government to protect us, dependent on oil (delivered to us in a pretty package), dependent on God to save us, dependent on standard politically correct education.
consider an advance toward the Caliphate, a terrorism attack in a dozen US cities, disruption of the internet, electricity, water supply. 10x the size of Katrina... with a country full of dependent people. while our troops are spread out across the earth. makes us quite vulnerable, eh?
can we rely on our government at this point? how do we prepare them? the student has to come to the teacher!
"Today, in the 21st century, it's a dream of Muslim activists."
When I grew up in Germany we learned in school that Nazism grew from a small group of fanatical singleminded radicals. Noone took it seriously until it was too late.
There are way too many parallels here to be ignored. I think Hugh touched on that as well above.
Interesting too that SOWdi Arabia hasn't said anything about this. I guess a Sunni AQ state in West Iraq won't bother them to much eh?
But could it also be that the SOWdis are floating the idea to keep US public and political opinion in favor of "staying the course"?
I think those who wrote above saying LET THEM are correct. Much esier to carpet bomb the place than some mountain region in Pakiland.
Time for TERMINIX!
The statements from Reuter stated clearly, “The creation of an Islamic caliphate….experts say it will remain just a militant’s dream. Since September, President Bush has warned…..”
Notice, the so called experts are Saudi analyst Faris bin Houzam, London-based anthropologist Madawi al-Rasheed, Lebanese historian Kamal Salibi , and As'ad AbuKhalil who teaches politics at the U.S. California State University.
Question: who amongst the experts stated above is not deceitful in his heart?
It is every Muslim’s duty to deceive the infidels by all means; better yet, if he can take advantage of his title as an expert or a scholar of a western university. The westerner governments love instant glorification and are very shot-sighted. They are lulled to sleep by the very pleasant songs of the experts, though their experts come from amongst their enemies in the guise of friendship.
Notice, Reuter also said, “ …President Bush has warned…” This earnest, though hated, Bush is a lone voice in an empty desert. He audience, or the people of his nation for this matter, had deserted him, and gone the enemy’s orgy party. What can one man do?
The president, who is neither a superman; nor a conservative; nor a socialist leftist, is only a small turning cog among the system of larger governmental mechanism, but the larger part of it had ceased to turn, and rendered the little cog useless. The heart is willing, but the rest of the body is unwilling, for the rest is ridden with malady, so to speak.
Sleep America, sleep into oblivion, for tomorrow is another day.
By Author Dan Simmons:
“Your enemy is he who will give his life to kill you,” said the Time Traveler. “Your enemies are they that wish you and your children and your grandchildren dead and who are willing to sacrifice themselves, or support those fanatics who will sacrifice themselves, to see you and your institutions destroyed. You haven’t figured that out yet – the majority of you fat, sleeping, smug, infinitely stupid Americans and Europeans.”
Applies to the entire freedom loving world.
I haven't taken the time to read the other posts so this may be totally redundant but, so what.
I'm less concerned about a caliphate in the middle east than I am about the the moral equivalent, PC controlled democracies, example Lebanon, becoming bred out of existence. Just as soon as the votes are available, the radical part of the religion use that as an excuse to abandon all modern morality in favor of sharia law and the even accelerated the process in Lebanon by shooting a lot of the individual voters and killing and threatening the opposition political party.
The article sounds like propaganda to keep our eyes off of the reality of the more likely and more devastating progression of encroachment by way of the birth canal.
Damn it to hell, its the idea of Islam and its very moral fiber that we are under siege from, not the crap that is going on in the middle east. We can always bomb them back to the stone age. It's everything else that poses the real threat.
What do you do in a democratic republic when you loose the vote? How many fundamental Islamics does it take to make the whole barrel rotten? I think they have more than enough here in the USA already. I tell you, the average person will cave in to a direct threat from a mob of mad dog jihads. We as a country, do not have the moral fiber to compete. We can't agree on anything and that simply means the determined people who don't care what we think will take us down. We, as a country, either come to terms with this enemy or they will take us over from within and that is far from speculation. It should apparent to the most casual observer.
-and a real problem is a society (us) that is dependent. dependent on our government to protect us, dependent on oil (delivered to us in a pretty package), dependent on God to save us, dependent on standard politically correct education.
consider an advance toward the Caliphate, a terrorism attack in a dozen US cities, disruption of the internet, electricity, water supply. 10x the size of Katrina... with a country full of dependent people. while our troops are spread out across the earth. makes us quite vulnerable, eh?
can we rely on our government at this point? how do we prepare them? the student has to come to the teacher!
EXACTLY!!
This is why it takes an attack like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to give our President a "blank check" to impose our will on the the world
at this point, it might be benificial to have another such attack on our soil!
betterpayattention:
Your posts are really rational!
"We as a country, do not have the moral fiber to compete. We can't agree on anything and that simply means the determined people who don't care what we think will take us down."
The jihadists know exactly what they are doing, have a goal, and they know how to reach it.
We tend to ignore history and successful tactics of ones' ememy. The enemy attacks your weakest spot, agressively, patiently, consistently resulting in a win. This tactic can be applied militarily or to civilizations.
Our weakest spot is "us", our own complacency, our so called PC society and politicians.
JustaDhimmi wrote: "This is why it takes an attack like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to give our President a "blank check" to impose our will on the the world
at this point, it might be benificial to have another such attack on our soil!"
because we are so politically correct, this is how it might have to be, 911x10. I'm sure this was part of the discussion in the White House this past week over Iraq failures.
will our government sacrifice some citizens or can it take pre-emptive measures?
since Bush was busted on no-Saddam-WMD... what will it take for us to strike first? the public and media are scrutinizing every move unlike Pearl Harbor. what do we really want?
there is some truth to mental illness as inflicted on populations by Islamic teaching. while some illness is biological there are also results from conditioning that can cause people to take on symptoms of mental disorder.
Jihadists aren't born jihadists, they learn in madrahassas and from each other. all behavior is learned.
-will our government sacrifice some citizens or can it take pre-emptive measures?
since Bush was busted on no-Saddam-WMD... what will it take for us to strike first?
Posted by: sectionOne
Because of how and why we went into Iraq, first strike will not be an option to any future President!
We will not have the will as a Nation to win this war until we suffer a GREAT(er) loss here at home!
Islamic law requires Muslims to wage jihad of all kinds (today that means demographic, economic, socio-cultural, political, legal, propaganda, violence and intimidation, etc.) in order to set up sharia law, whether or not there is a caliph.
The jihadist movement is much more resilient while it has no central leadership or caliph. If it had a central leadership, and invested in it and tried to maintain it, it would be a sitting target for us and we could more easily defeat it. As the current situation stands, we must deal with diffuse networks of jihadists (be they violent or political) that are hard to detect, hard to extricate from the general population, and, most importantly, living among us.
The idea that Jihadists could set up their caliph through military means within the next couple of decades is not credible. However, jihadists have a reasonably good chance of establishing sharia* rule over non-Muslims simply through opportunistic use of demographic jihad (immigration into non-Muslim lands combined with the typically high Muslim fertility rates). When Muslims reach a majority or near-majority, the issue of whether or not there is a caliph becomes irrelevant.
JustaDhimmi wrote: "Because of how and why we went into Iraq, first strike will not be an option to any future President!
We will not have the will as a Nation to win this war until we suffer a GREAT(er) loss here at home!"
so what are the solutions?
what can the average citizen do in an effort to stop the spread of Islam?
gotta love Robert and his efforts in awareness!
are these listed suggestions going to start and is this going to be enough? and how do we as daily citizens enforce these solutions?:
1. Stop blaming violent acts committed by Muslims in the name of Islam on the various sins of unbelievers.
2. Establish nationwide, compulsory programs in American mosques to teach against the jihad ideology and Islamic supremacism, by means including an explicit and definitive rejection of the literal meaning of many passages of Qur'an and Hadith.
3. Stop saying violent or hateful things in private when you think no non-Muslims are around.
4. Actively work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.
...the demographic conquest of Europe and Russia is something that could plausibly happen within the next 50-100 years. Gradually, slowly but steadily, it is happening as we speak, and has been happening for the past few decades.
Muslim majorities usually vote for hard-line Islamic governments. The world is becoming more Islamic politically and demographically, and in particular it is becoming more hard-line Islamic during the present Islamic revival period. Given that non-Muslims--with some rare exceptions--have put up very little resistance to the cultural and political Islamization process (indeed, many have, wittingly or unwittingly, facilitated it), and show few indications of likely doing any time in the future, the demographic conquest of Europe and Russia seems inevitable.
Nevertheless, the Islamic demographic conquest of the U.S. seems very unlikely, and this is a major reason to be hopeful. We must continue to resist this encroachment of sharia standards on our ways of life (especially in Europe), and continue to try to convince those who are not yet convinced of the nature and scope of the problem we face globally.
This is why it takes an attack like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to give our President a "blank check" to impose our will on the the world
at this point, it might be benificial to have another such attack on our soil!
Posted by: JustaDhimmi at December 14, 2006 12:48 PM
Justadhimmi:
Are you being ironic here? As it is, a large number of Americans would rather believe that the 9/11 perps were agents of the US and Israel whose purpose in murdering thousands of Americans was to provide Bush with a rationale for attacking Afghanistan and Iraq.
Caliphate, shmaliphate, I don't feel reassured in the least. There have already been attempts to have Sharia law instituted in Canada (for Muslims only, but, hey, it's a start). So what if the various Muslim groups are too fractious to ever unite under one world leader. That may be the ultimate goal of some but the intermediate goals are still not acceptable to anyone who loves freedom.
"Nevertheless, the Islamic demographic conquest of the U.S. seems very unlikely, and this is a major reason to be hopeful. We must continue to resist this encroachment of sharia standards on our ways of life (especially in Europe), and continue to try to convince those who are not yet convinced of the nature and scope of the problem we face globally."
Posted by: Archimedes
huh?
surely Islam will attempt the conquest or what did that loon president of Iran say... the elimination of Israel and America... or something like that.
and not only does Iran have nukes, their pals in hills, AQ, have them too. think they just are going to sit on them?
these threats are serious. there are no World Trade Towers anymore!
The Third Reich might have been termed a "dream", but it had massive and deadly consequences for those who tried to implement the dream and those who fought it. So, too, with the dream of the caliphate.
SectionOne,
I was referring to demographic conquest. Of course the U.S. should be concerned about those other forms of attack, and all the forms of jihad which are currently being waged against her.
Archimedes,
just for fun, let's speculate.
what do you think happens after the attack of a dozen cities in the US? Islamic quest is to convert those left as the rivers flow with blood. or chop their heads off.
and wow, there seems to be Muslims positioned throughout the continent... right now. the borders aren't secure, Super Max will be broken into, muslim militias in the streets, it's not a pretty picture.
you think armed Americans will be able to fend off the swords? or will they pile into the ovens like Hitler's millions like they gathered in the Superdome in the New Orleans diaster?
-Nevertheless, the Islamic demographic conquest of the U.S. seems very unlikely, and this is a major reason to be hopeful.
Posted by: Archimedes
I have a bad habit of counting head scarfs when I walk down 7th Ave in NYC and the numbers since 9/11 have increased alot.
Demographic conquest of the major electoral states is certainly possible. Gays and libs don't reproduce much and illegals don't vote. Also, appeasment can substitute for demographics.
-We must continue to resist this encroachment of sharia standards on our ways of life (especially in Europe), and continue to try to convince those who are not yet convinced of the nature and scope of the problem we face globally
Like maybe through the U.N.??
OT,
Sorry to interrupt, here, but I have breaking news about the blind Sheik on his deathbed:
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/890
The Third Reich might have been termed a "dream", but it had massive and deadly consequences for those who tried to implement the dream and those who fought it. So, too, with the dream of the caliphate.
Blind Shiek is in grave condition?
maybe he has the same ailment as Castro.
Seems impossible to unite the kurds, shiites, and sunnis in Iraq, right?
But Saddam did it.
Ruthlessness is like a flame--make it hot enough and it melts all kinds of divisions and impediments.
-Are you being ironic here? As it is, a large number of Americans would rather believe that the 9/11 perps were agents of the US and Israel whose purpose in murdering thousands of Americans was to provide Bush with a rationale for attacking Afghanistan and Iraq.
Posted by: waterdragon52
I believe the house of sand people were behind 9/11. I know Bushies defend the house of sand people and believes that islam is a noble religion that has been hijacked by a few bad apples.
So either,
#1 all American security measures were asleep that day
or
#2 Bushie thought, hmmm, we can use this, let it happen
Are we really to believe that Bushie didn't know what was going on until the first plane hit??
With Americans so unwilling to defend themselves even in a post 9/11 world, can you really blame him for accepting the "blank check"??
Honestly, I don't know... Someone please set me straight!
Talk about a good reason for banning a poster...
...sounds like another kool-aid alert kid needs to lay off the kook-fringe (SP)indymedia websites for news...considering how loaded that blatant spin was, I doubt the intention is to listen to anything...lol
"Are we really to believe that Bushie didn't know what was going on until the first plane hit??"
I believe it. It's easy for Monday morning quarterbacks to point to this and that and wonder how the coach could have missed it.
In this case the opposing team called a trick play and the defence was caught with its pants down. Every analysis of what happened points to an "It can't happen here" mindset of everyone who could have stopped it, from the flight instructors who taught the murdering bastards how to fly on up to our turf protecting intelligence and law enforcement bureaucracies.
From here on out its a case of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Hello everyone, my first post. So.. is everyone going to to the big anti terror rally sponsored by the moderate Muslims?? *sigh* Eleanor, im impressed.. thanks. In the immortal words of Tiger Woods club cover Frank...What part of this religion is worth practicing?
The posting above about the "house of sand" people will be monitored so that similar postings do not appear from the same source again. Obvious conspiracy theories and theorists quickly outstay their non-existent welcome, though one example of each may stand, as an exhibit from the Laughing Academy.
The posting above about the "house of sand" people will be monitored so that similar postings do not appear from the same source again. Obvious conspiracy theories and theorists quickly outstay their non-existent welcome, though one example of each may stand, as an exhibit from the Laughing Academy.
"Nevertheless, the Islamic demographic conquest of the U.S. seems very unlikely, and this is a major reason to be hopeful."
Don't be so sure. Maybe they don't have four wives (yet), but the kids keep coming. Didn't Osama's father have fifty something children?
With that rate of reproduction seventy percent of your children can die in sectarian warfare and you still have more children than five infidel married couples combined.
The caliphate is a dream, but it can't happen?
That's what they said about terrorism in America in the 1980s. Our Muslims were assimilated, the terrorists couldn't get here, yadda yadda yadda. We were lulled into complacency. Our Muslim community didn't do much when the al Qaedas made their home in America, did they? They were closer to the terrorists than anyone else in America and they did NOTHING. The blind sheik was at that Jersey City mosque preaching his hatred of America before the first WTC bombing and nothing was done by American Muslims. Why?
The caliphate is a dream that may never be realized but that doesn't mean a lot of harm won't be done by those who try to fulfill it.
If we let our guard down again, we will deserve whatever we get.
I also have wondered that if Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, how this can be when these different sects are killing each other???...I realize there is growth thru birth rates, but the religion of "peace" has a long history of violence, not only with the infidel, but within it's own self, too......Sunnis killing Kurds, killing Shi-ites, killing Sunnies, killing Druze, etc.....the only growth there is in the number of homocides in the name of Allah....and less we forget the idea of killing ones self for jihadi puroposes
posted by oiznop:
They mean islam is the fastest growing religion in hell!
according to the arab news media over 650 thousand muslims have been killed in iraq alone in the past 4 years, not to mention the thousands killed in the tsunami of indonesia, nor the earth quake of iran nor the earth quake of pakistan!
Obviously muslims havnt had enough converts nor produced enough babys to replace those killed in the past 4 years so obviously when they claim islam is the fastest growing religion i assume they mean islam is the fastest growing religion in hell!
surah 2}_154, think not of those slain in the cause of allah as dead,nay they are alive, but you sense it not!
According to allah those muslim terrorist
(martyrs) we have killed since the islamic ummah attacked america on 9/11/2001 are not dead, they are alive and well in allahs paradise eating fruits and fowl drinking wine and frolicking with virgins and handsome boys like treasured pearls provided by allah to service a martyrs every desire!
One would think the ummah would be sending thankyou cards to the kafir for filling allahs paradise with his martyrs!
Here is the important part of the attack of 9/11/2001 americas politicians dont seem to comprehend!
America was not attacked on 9/11/2001 by afghanistan nor iraq nor al qaeda nor any other muslim terrorist organization!
On 9/11/2001 america was attacked and over 3000 innocent unarmed american men women and children were murdered by the islamic ummah!
Until the politicians of the govenrment of the united states learn the truth and accept this "fact" they will continue to fail to do the job they were elected to do, that being "serve and protect the citizens of the united states of america from all enemies both foriegn and domestic!"
Unless americas politicians learn these facts not one of them are responsible enough to serve the american citizens!
from above:
Obviously muslims havnt had enough converts nor produced enough babys to replace those killed in the past 4 years so obviously when they claim islam is the fastest growing religion i assume they mean islam is the fastest growing religion in hell!
Posted by: Thndrbang
But they have multiple wifes (willing and unwilling), each wife is "seriously encouraged" to have as many babies as possible. One muslim could easily have 20-40 children. The wives can be married at age 12 and can bare children right away.
These same childred are then taught in the madrassas (muslim schools)to carry on the family traditions.
In Islam , bodies are expendible commodities.
-The posting above about the "house of sand" people will be monitored so that similar postings do not appear from the same source again. Obvious conspiracy theories and theorists quickly outstay their non-existent welcome, though one example of each may stand, as an exhibit from the Laughing Academy.
Posted by: Hugh
Well, I have gotten everyone all riled up. All I asked were for others to tell me a more reasonable account of what happened. as I said
#1 all American security measures were asleep that day
And how can you HUGH not see the point I was trying to make.
I do not believe our government was responsible, but one can not simply dismiss the benefits that such a tragedy has brought to the current administration. 9/11 MADE the Bush administration! 9/11 got Bush re-elected!
And as for being caught with our pants down, in how many ways is this possible? That suggests we will always have an excuse for such tragedies!
Perhaps it was the comment about the "sand people" that got you all riled up. Forgive me, I meant the wonderful, glorious Kingdom of Saudi Arabia! There, feel better now???
JustaDhimmi,
A little advice: quit while you're behind.