Good news from Australia about a case we have covered here extensively. Remember, one of the things they were censured for was...reading from the Qur'an. From WorldNetDaily.com, with thanks to all who sent this in:
Two Australian pastors who were convicted of "vilifying" Muslims when they quoted from the Quran during a seminar on jihad have had their appeals upheld by the Victorian Supreme Court.And while that means they will return to a lower court for another trial, that actually is a good result, according to a new report from Voice of the Martyrs.
"In a sense we are happy with this decision… It means this case will be kept alive in the public consciousness," Pastor Danny Nalliah said in a VOM report. "There's a need to keep these vilification laws in sharp focus to reveal the problems this law is creating."
The Australian law was imposed in order to prevent the denigration of people based on their race or religion, and similar laws also have been approved in Canada, where critics of the law say they include sexual orientation and forbid pastors from condemning homosexuality as a sin.
Many of the "hate crimes" proposals in the United States are based on a similar concept: designating as "crimes" the statements people make about their own beliefs or convictions.
".. similar laws also have been approved in Canada, where critics of the law say they include sexual orientation and forbid pastors from condemning homosexuality as a sin."
I can't state court precedents offhand, but I doubt this statement.
It's absurd that any ideology or way of thinking becomes perfectly legitimate and sanctified when it's called a religion (except if it happens to be Christianity). It doesn't make any sense. It should never be illegal to denigrate someone based on their beliefs. Isn't that what people do all the time?
My goodness. It's a good thing Martin Luther did not have to face such laws when he began the Reformation movement. How can anyone make the case from reform, or even challenge certain practices, when you can't even quote from the source under the penalty of law? Ideas that need legal protection from criticism are not strong enough to stand on their own.
Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
“During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys.
They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”
Black folks have 'raisin heads' Bukhari v1n662 and v9n256
Black folks are 'pug-nosed slaves' sahih Muslim v9 pg 46 and 47
in Canada, where critics of the law say they include sexual orientation and forbid pastors from condemning homosexuality as a sin.
Posted by Robert
Can one get away with it in indirect discourse? Something along the lines of: "The prophet Obadiah condemned homosexuality as a sin, and St. Robert condemned homosexuality as a sin, but I, as your pastor, may not condemn homosexuality as a sin."
It's no big news to me that leftism brings rise to the 'thought crimes' ideology, mostly because leftism itself does not stand up to logical scrutiny, rather it is a belief system. Therefore it will defend other ideologies which also will not stand up to scrutiny.
Needless to say, when questioning, and when scouring over the source material of a belief system, it is imperative that free speech be upheld. If it is not, then it only serves to hinder our progress as a species, intellectually, spiritually and even technologically.
Not so many centuries ago, Galileo was sent to prison for claiming that the Ptolemaic model of a geocentric universe was incorrect, due to the fact that his theory (which later turned out to be correct) conflicted with Catholic dogma. Obviously we seem to learn little from our history, because the same thing is happening now. Except that this time it is not Christian dogma which is under the microscope, but Islamic dogma.
While it's true that the Bible was not meant as a Scientific document, it had enough good in it that the religion could survive the transition to a modern and scientific community. Since the Koran doesn't have ANYTHING good about it, it is unable to make the same transition that the other major world religions have done, and so it is incapable of reform. A dogma of hate, racism, genocide and sexism has no place in the modern world, and it needs to be exposed.
Evidently the Australian Pastor was illustrating that the Koran's violence was unacceptable. If the Bible's scientific heresies and gay-bashing can be exposed to all and sundry and talked about, then the Koran should be rejected even more vigorously because it is nothing more than a war manifesto masquerading as religious.
The findings were very important for this concept. In particular the one we've been saying all along -
"it did not give a great deal of consideration to the distinction between hatred of the religious beliefs of Muslims and hatred of Muslims because of their religious beliefs"
A link to the full findings can be linked from my blog topic on this -
http://tinyurl.com/v7gvf
It makes for interesting reading if you've got the time as to how this disgusting example of state control on our speech and thoughts was pushed throught despite the evidence. Should be noted this is a State issue, which in Victoria are lefties.
To God be the glory! Hallelujah! Amen!
This has been an item over which many Christians in many parts of the world have prayed. Hence, re hate speech "crimes" to punish mere opposition to homosexuality, I would urge all to petition God Almighty that such things would also be overturned, or shown to be the odious things they are. While we're at it, pray for the billion-plus Muslims that God would turn them to his saving grace in Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, who paid for our sins in his own body on the cross (Mk. 10:45, cf. Isaiah 53, cf. I Pt., etc. etc.) Many things which seem impossible with men are small matters for the God who made all things (including things far out in space beyond the reach of our strongest telescopes) in the space of six days and who upholds all things with his word of power.
PBares: Actually, in Luther's day, they had similar laws (albeit penned for the benefit of the Roman Catholic Church rather than for homosexuals), and Luther's life was indeed forfeit after the Diet of Worms. God, however, raised up nobles who hid Luther in the Wartburg where the Reformer translated the Bible into German and produced much of his written work.
Also, John Knox, who led the Reformation in Scotland, and prayed, "LORD, give me Scotland, lest I die" did a stint in the French galleys for his convictions; and was made a refugee under Mary Tudor. It might also be said of Knox that he was one who "feared not the face of man".
Think as well of the ordinary Chinese Christians of 1899-1900 who suffered martyrdom under the Boxers. Think of the young pages in the late 19th-century court of Mutesa of Buganda (now the part of Uganda on Lake Victoria) who were burned alive because they refused, out of Christian conviction (both Roman and Anglican), to be buggered by their royal master. And, in the latter case, the descendants of King Mutesa became Christians themselves.
If God the Word became incarnate and sacrificed himself on the cross for the sake of us sinners, then conquered death after three days, then the current assaults of secularist and Muslim fanatics must be only a temporary condition. Let us take part in God's purposes to turn this assault to nought by calling on the LORD who made heaven and earth.
Just one correction to the article: This is not "Australian law" it is Victorian law - Victoria being one of the states in Australia, and probably the state most infested with moonbats.
Do you think John Howard would stand for this nonsense?
The pastors are now heavily in debt over this.
http://catchthefire.com.au/articles/general/Fighting
In case anyone wants to help see above link.
Thanks for the link Gramfan. I'm over there now to contribute.
If reading selected verses from the Qur'an vilifies Muslims, it's not the fault of the reader.
"If reading selected verses from the Qur'an vilifies Muslims, it's not the fault of the reader."
Bingo, Xero G! Spot on and you got that right!
If that quote shows up in a Supreme Court decision (and it should) you can count on me as a witness if you want to sue the court for plagerism.
Brett_McS
I spent a bit of time at Andrew Bolt's 'blog looking for that link ;) I am sorry but I forgot who posted it there as I like to acknowledge.
I knew I had seen it somewhere before.
I have been there also.
Hope these two guys sue ICV or however, for heaps! If I were a lawyer I would do it for free. (sadly I am not.)
Muslim books containing quotes from Christianity or the Bible should be thoroughly checked and their authors (or successors) sued.
Abul A'la Maududi
Khurshid Ahmed,
Muhammad Ali Alkhuli, etc. etc.
My goodness. It's a good thing Martin Luther did not have to face such laws when he began the Reformation movement
My goodness. It's a good thing Martin Luther did not have to face such laws when he began the Reformation movement
No he faced DEATH. It was only the protection provided by Frederick III, elector of Saxony that saved his neck by hiding him in Wartburg Castle.
What naivety to assume Martin Luther had an easy ride compared to a few dissenters riding the PC courts of modern Anglo-Saxon decadence. Martin Luther risked the same fate as St Paul and Jesus Christ - execution.
This has come a shock to me because I didnt realize that such horrible laws existed here. Is this specific to the state Victoria? Over here the MSM doesnt cover such cases and it never will so it's very hard to know what is going on. I thought that Australia didnt have these kinds of laws. Does anybody have any more information on this, I am very interested in it.
"Just one correction to the article: This is not "Australian law" it is Victorian law - Victoria being one of the states in Australia, and probably the state most infested with moonbats.
Do you think John Howard would stand for this nonsense?"
Sorry, I just saw that and that answers my question. Thank god, I had a feeling that this kind of bullshit was only in Victoria and now it makes complete sense since it has been run by labor party. I am surprised that it hasnt happened in NSW as well.
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Luther's knowledge of theology could well have been written on the back of a postage stamp.