An update on this story. "WHouse denies Saudi plan to aid Iraqi Sunnis," from AFP, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
WASHINGTON - The White House denied Wednesday that Saudi Arabia had warned it would support Iraq’s Sunni minority against its Shia majority if the United States withdrew its forces from the war-torn country.“That’s not Saudi government policy,” said the spokesman, who acknowledged that he had not discussed the matter with Riyadh’s embassy in Washington or to officials in Saudi Arabia.
The New York Times, citing US and Arab diplomats, reported Tuesday that King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia delivered the warning to Vice President Dick Cheney in Riyadh two weeks ago.
“It’s a hypothetical situation, and we’d work hard to avoid such a structure,” one Arab diplomat in Washington told the Times.
“If things become so bad in Iraq, like an ethnic cleansing, we will feel we are pulled into the war,” the diplomat was quoted as saying.
Sounds like spin to me. After all it's very important to the Saudi's that they APPEAR to be friends of the US.
It is a shame that people are fighting wars on the basis of being Sunni or Shia. We are all humans.
I registered here in hopes that all of you'll can understand us better. In hopes that we can bridge gaps between each other.
Also Saudi Arabia or Afghnaistan is not the best example of Islam.
Concerned Canadian,
Yeah, I think you're right. Nothing else seems to make sense, here. If the Saudi's didn't say it, then the Times would definately not print it, as it would be too easily disproved...
Cheers,
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
If Muslims would quit issuing calls for the violent death of my countrymen and myself I think relations would improve right away, Muslim Unity. I hate to tell you that the term "Muslim Unity" makes me very suspicious. It's a real shame I had to read everything I could about Islam since 9/11 especially. But I try to make time for repeated death threats.
http://www.aina.org/news/20061114102915.htm
I added these four to the inbox. It's tough to keep up.
Anyway, it's real nice here in the dar-al-Harb. I'm not interested in da'wa, dialogue, or any other kind of mind control. Take your religion, please.
It seems nobody here even wants to have a discussion. Why not? If we don't have an open mind and are not even ready to speak, how can we solve each others misunderstandings?
Then we become extrimists, fundamentalists, racists and bigots. Did I even say anything about wanting to convert you or control you? It is paranoia that makes you feel I said that.
I skimmed your site. The message you try and send is either taqiyya, or something that is totally at odds with mainstream Islam. Like Quran 2:193
The way I understand it, the Shia are a minority sect of Islam now enjoying vigorous recruitment in Iraq and elsewhere.
Middle East propoganda has fostered the idea that "victories" against Israel have happened because of Shia funding and arms.
The viciousness of the sectarian killings in Iraq reveals the true depth of the hatred between sects.
The Saudis must view this as formidable competition to their domination schemes for the region.
Pull up a chair..the religion of peace is on the march...against itself.
BTW Muslim Unity, you'll find that many posters here fully understand Islam and violent jihad, and there's not much to discuss with us.
It's not that our minds are closed...just overloaded with the truth.
This is a battle of ideologies that Islam cannot win.
Someone teach the american politicians!
>>> from islamic book of fiqh( jurisprudence)
Reliance of the traveler
Islamic State Part 16 & 17: 33. The Internal Policy Of The Islamic State,
34. The Foreign Policy Of The Islamic State
34. The Foreign Policy Of The Islamic State
Foreign policy is the State?s relationship with other states, peoples and nations. This relationship, is in fact, looking after the affairs of the Ummah abroad. The Islamic State?s foreign policy follows this trend and it is based on a fixed concept that doesn?t change; this is the spreading of Islam and the conveying of the Message to every nation and every society. This is the very basis of the Islamic State?s foreign policy. The basis never changes and never differs or varies no matter who rules the State. This basis has always been maintained and it has been carried out at all times, from the time when the Messenger of Allah (saw) settled in Madinah to the last day of the ?Uthmani State. Thus the basis has never changed. The Messenger of Allah (saw) set up the policy of the Islamic State on the basis of spreading Islam since the very first day he arrived in Madinah. He (saw) signed treaties with the Jews in order to concentrate on spreading the Message in Hijaz, then he signed the treaty of al-Hudaybiyah with Quraysh in order to spread the Message i n the Arabian Peninsula. Finally, he (saw) sent envoys to the countries outside the Peninsula with the aim of establishing relations based on the spreading of Islam, by inviting them to embrace it. Afterwards, came his Khulafa?, they also established links with all the other states on the basis of spreading Islam, and they too continued to carry the Message of Islam to the world. All the Muslim rulers who came to power competed in the spreading of Islam. The Ummayads were actually more successful in conquering other countries and spreading Islam than the Abbasids, and the ?Uthmanis conquered more countries and spread Islam more than the Mamluks. This disparity was due, however, to the priorities the State would give to its foreign policy among other factors, but the spreading of Islam remained always the basis on which the relationship of the Islamic State with other states, peoples and nations was established. This has never changed throughout the rule of all the Khulafa?a. The du ty of the State is to implement Islam at home and to carry its Message to the world, therefore the task of the Islamic State has always been to carry the Message of Islam. What actually makes the conveying and spreading of Islam the basis of the foreign policy is the fact that the Message is addressed to the whole of mankind. Allah (swt) says,
"We have not sent you but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin)." [TMQ 34:28]
Allah (swt) also says,
"O mankind! There has come to you a direction from your Lord." [TMQ 10:57]
He (swt) says,
"Say, O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Apostle of Allah." [TMQ 7:158]
And He (swt) says,
"This Qur?an has been revealed to me by inspiration that I may warn you and all whom it reaches." [TMQ 6:19]
He (swt) also says,
"O Messenger proclaim (the Message) which has been sent to you from your Lord, if you did not you would not have fulfilled and proclaimed His Message." [TMQ 5:67]
The Messenger of Allah (saw) duly obliged and set about conveying the Message to mankind, and when he died the Message continued to be conveyed by the Muslims. The conveying of the Islamic Message is in fact the continuation of the work that the Messenger of Allah (saw) had initiated. The Muslims followed his (saw) teachings and continued spreading the Message of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said in his Khutbah al-Wada? (farewell speech), "Would the present tell the absent, for the absent may be more conscious than the listener." He (saw) also said, "May Allah brighten a man who listened to my saying, understood it and conveyed it as he heard it." This is why the conveying of the Islamic call has become the basis of the Islamic State?s relationship with other states, nations and peoples during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (saw) and in the days o f his Khulafa? after him. And this is the Divine rule which is decisive and conclusive, in evidence by the Book and the Sunnah and the general consensus of the Sahabah. Therefore, the foreign policy of the Islamic State is the conveying of the Islamic Message to the whole world. This policy is implemented by a fixed method that never changes, which is jihad, no matter how many times the rulers change. This method was ever present at all times, since the Messenger of Allah (saw) founded the State until the end of the Islamic State, and the method never changed throughout. The Messenger of Allah (saw) prepared the army soon after founding the Islamic State, he (saw) initiated jihad in order to remove the material obstacles that stood in the way of the Islamic da?wah. Quraysh was that material obstacle, so he (saw) decided to remove it. Then he (saw) went on to destroy Quraysh?s existence, the very existence that stood in the way of the Islamic da?wah. He (saw) also removed and destro yed other obstacles until Islam engulfed the whole of the Arabian Peninsula. Then the Islamic State began knocking on the doors of other nations to spread Islam among them. It found that the existing ruling systems formed a material obstacle in the face of the da?wah, thus they had to be removed in order to reach the people themselves and invite them to Islam so that they could tangibly see and sense the justice of Islam, observe the prosperity and decent living under its banner, and invite the people to a better life without compulsion or coercion. Jihad continued as a method of spreading Islam, and by the means of jihad many countries were conquered. By means of jihad, kingdoms and states were removed and Islam ruled the same peoples and nations. Islam was spread and was embraced by hundreds of millions of people after they had been ruled by it, and the method used in implementing that foreign policy was jihad; it has never changed and it will never change.
Jihad is the ca ll to Islam and the direct fighting in the way of Allah (swt), or the contribution by either money, opinions, or literature. It is an obligation, confirmed in the Qur?an and the hadith. The Muslims never started the fight against an enemy before proposing Islam or the jizyah. The Divine rule concerning jihad is that if the enemy was surrounded they would be invited to embrace Islam and if they accepted then they would become a part of the Islamic Ummah and fighting them would be forbidden. If they refused Islam then they would be asked to pay the jizyah and if they paid it their lives and assets would be safe and their country would become an Islamic homeland, they would enjoy the justice, equity, protection, guardianship and welfare enjoyed by the Muslims, and all their basic needs would be secured. Additionally, they would have to pledge allegiance to the State and the regime. If they rejected Islam and refused to pay the jizyah then their fighting would be lawful. Therefore, fig hting the enemy would not become lawful until the call to Islam had been delivered to the people. The scholars have stressed that it is unlawful for us to fight those who have not received the Islamic call. Thus, public opinion about Islam, and the conveying of a true image of Islam, together with attempts to allow the Islamic laws to reach the people in order to enable them to realise that Islam offers them a true salvation even in a general manner should precede any fighting. The Islamic State should undertake political work such as giving a clear picture of Islam and spreading its concepts, campaigning and advertising Islam. Such moves should include muscle flexing and displaying the might of the Islamic State, including the courage and resolve of the Muslims. The Messenger of Allah (saw) would perform such manoeuvres, he would send envoys to the heart of the disbelieving countries. On one occasion he (saw) sent forty men to the people of Najd to convey the Message of Islam. He (saw) also displayed the might of the State when he toured Madinah with his army the day he raided Tabuk. This was why the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "I achieved victory by terrorising the enemy at a month?s marching distance."
The Muslim army has always been feared. Europe always carried the concept that the Muslim army could never be defeated and this concept lasted for centuries. However, political manoeuvres are essential, especially those which help to spread the Islamic concepts and demonstrate the power of the State before resorting to armed struggle. Although jihad is the fixed method that never changes in the spreading of Islam, the political manoeuvres and other deliberate moves are all part of the preparatory ground, essential prior to the start of fighting. It is an important matter designed at determining the relationship of the State with other states, peoples and nations, whether these were economic or based on good neighbourly relations or any other basis that may help to spread Islam.
Therefore, the political concept on which the State?s relationship with other states, peoples and nations is based is the spreading of Islam among them and the carrying of the Message to them. The method that should be followed is jihad. However, there are several ways and plans which the State initiates or adopts. It would for instance sign a good neighbourly treaty with some enemies and fight others. The Messenger of Allah (saw) approved such measures ever since he arrived in Madinah. The State could declare war against all its enemies simultaneously, Abu Bakr did so when he sent the armies to Iraq and al-Sham at the same time. The State could hold temporary truces, enabling it to create public opinion; that is what the Messenger of Allah (saw) did when he signed the treaty of al-Hudaybiyah. The State could also resort to local skirmishes as a means of terrorising the enemy; this was the case when the Messenger of Allah (saw) sent several ex peditions out prior to the battle of Badr, and when the Ummayads were in power they used the same tactics against the Romans, including summer and winter campaigns.
The State could also sign economic treaties with some countries, whilst at the same time not have trade relations with others; taking into account the interest of the da?wah for Islam. It could have diplomatic relations with some countries and not with others; this would be according to a carefully designed plan to boost the da?wah. The State could resort to propaganda and advertising in order to spread the da?wah, or it could use the method of divulging the enemies schemes and cold war.
The State?s planning would be in accordance with the nature of the work to be undertaken and geared towards the benefit of the Islamic da?wah. These plans have always helped the spreading of Islam and eased the task of jihad, therefore they are necessary in implementing the foreign policy. Public opinion about Islam and th e Islamic State has always been necessary to spread Islam by its fixed method, which is jihad in the way of Allah.
Source: Serialisation - 'Islamic State', Hizb-ut-Tahrir
It is a shame that people are fighting wars on the basis of being Sunni or Shia. We are all humans.
ok muslim unity, we dont care what you tell us, just go and tell your fellow islmaist who are doing the terrorizing, boming, heheadings, torture, you go there and preach because that is whee you need to be be. not here.
Did any of you know in march 2003 while america was attacking the terrorist who attacked america on 9/11/2001 bill clinton was in srebrenica at a commemoration ceremony to honor and give praise to the very muslim terrorist we were fighting in afghanistan and iraq?
activate this link to view a picture of bill clinton bowing his head in respect to those al qaeda terrorist in march 2003! while we were fighting them in afghanistan and iraq!
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Demo-Nazis.html
(Bemused infidel Leader)
What is wrong with your people Muslim_Unity?
We could work together.
Why be enemies?
Because we're different?
Is that why?
Think of the things that we could do.
Think how strong we would be!
Infidels...and Muslims...together.
There is nothing that we could not accomplish.
Think about it!
Think about it!
Why destroy...when you can create?
We can have it all...or we can smash it all!
Why can't we...work out our differences?
Why can't we...work things out?
Muslim people...why can't we all just get along?
(Cut to scene of Mujahadeen cutting off infidel heads, one with loudspeaker addressing infidels in English)
"Don't run. We are your friends."
"Don't run. We are your friends."
Muslim Unity??? Do doubt the name means something.
You are talking to the wrong crowd, talk to that ahole in Iran and his murdering mullah buddies. We aren't interest in listening to your crap while the "Muslim Unity" goes about the business of literally chopping people into pieces.
Where have you been and do you even know what you are talking about? I talked to a muslim lady the other day and she is in total denial of what is going on in her country, Thailand (or a really good lier..I can't tell the difference anymore). She actually believes that the Buddhists are the problem.... Maybe muslim women don't know truth about anything but you see, if a muslim does know the truth, he will not say it.
Ayatollah Khomeini "just wanted to go into his mosque and prey...." until he got into power and then the butchering started. Talking to a muslim has meant nothing so what makes anyone think that talking will matter in the future. I know Islam wants me dead, the story hasn't changed since Mohammad the politician, started his tyrannicide and, best I can tell, it won't. So, 'Muslim Unity' what would you like to say to me? That I'm wrong and your political party doesn't want me dead so you can have my house and property? Do you want to reassure me that everything is OK and that what is going on around the world doesn't matter for my wellbeing? You lying dog, go back to Arabia and stay there!!! According to your own religion, something you must know nothing about, will not allow you to be my friend. Haven't you heard about the declaration of war that Islam has in effect on Israel and America?
There is a way we might be able to work this out. Go kill the rabid mullahs who want to kill me and we can talk. Short of that, talking to any muslim is like listening to a propaganda machine so piss off.
"It is a shame that people are fighting wars on the basis of being Sunni or Shia. We are all humans."
-- from a Muslim poster above
Since Islam is based on an uncompromising division of the world between Believer and Infidel, it is passing strange that the sentimenalism above is presented at this website. Does the poster mean that it is a shame that Muslims are capable of internecine warfare, and should save their strength for the Jihad, and its many instruments (and postings, as propaganda, are also instruments of Jihad)? Does he mean that he wishes the Jihad-verses of the Qur'an were to be dropped, the Hadith eliminated altogether as a source of authority, and the Sira of Muhammad simply ignored, or Muhammad's life itself rewritten -- no more Asma bint Marwan, Abu Akaf, Banu Qurayza, Khaybar Oasis, little Aisha, "war is deception," the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya, or all the aggression and violence with which so much of the life of Muhammad, and of course the Qur'an and Hadith, are suffused? Is that what he wants? Or does he not see, or think that we, the Infidels, do not see this, when everyday more and more do see, do study, do have brought to their attention, do slowly, and then more rapidly, begin to comprehend -- not least because of the observable behavior of Muslims, prompted by those texts and not a perversion of those texts, all around the world.
What muslim unity means to me:
We often hear the muslims scream for the islamic ummah shia, sunni, and all sects of islam to stop fighting amongst eachother and unite to bring about the caliphate and the 12th imam inorder to subdue and enslave the nonmuslims!
In reading the qu'ran i am struck with shock at the pure hatred targeted against the jews. What seems to be a totally satanic hatred.
After reading the qu'ran, the only reason i can imagine for such hatred is that the mere exsistance of the Jews prove that allah is an imposter and muhammad is the messenger of satan!
Infact throughout the entire qu'ran the only prophicies muhammad made was that the muslims would subdue and enslave the jews. muhammad stated that if there were 10 muslims they would attack and defeat 100 jews, 100 muslims would attack and defeat 1000 jews! the muslims fialure to subdue and enslave the jews in 1400 years of extreme effort proves that allah is an imposter satanic god and muhammad is the messenger of satan! muhammad gave the muslims a sickening prophicy of the final days, he stated "the trees and rocks will speak and tell the muslim there is a jew hiding behind me, come cut of its head!"
Talking trees and rocks, thats even better than the talking ants and birds allah speaks of in the qu'ran that spoke to king Solomon!
Thats even better than the miraculous midnight flight muhammad took on the back of a heavenly winged beast the buraq, a beast with the head of a female and the tail of an ostrich..
Its hard to believe men are willing to kill over this garbage!
whatever we do, we must keep the works of Dr. Suezz away from the muslims!
The Grinch that stole Ramadan indeed!
"
It is a shame that people are fighting wars on the basis of being Sunni or Shia. We are all humans.
I registered here in hopes that all of you'll can understand us better. In hopes that we can bridge gaps between each other.
Also Saudi Arabia or Afghnaistan is not the best example of Islam.
"
Keep your disinformation - or takyia aor whatever you call it.- this will end when either we win or we are defeated - its the end game in a 1400 year war between good and evil and I dont have to tell you which side is which - brother human!
"It seems nobody here even wants to have a discussion.
"
Why not - I will tell you why not - its the same reason we did not have discussions with Hitler and his band of Nazis - we have judged Islam to be Evil at its core and therefore there is no discussion to be had with Evil - it would ony serve to cloud the issue which is something you muslims are very good at - indeed it is the only way that you have a chance of defeating us as if we as a whole - the western people - decide on masse that islam is Evil and must be contained and then erradicated then we have the power ( maybe the will ) to do it - you people have no power as your belief system only leads to stagnation and corruption of the human mind and soul!!
So what do you suggest? Wipe out and kill all Muslims?
You sound like the very same people who say "Wipe our XYZ" the people you say you are against.
The fight is between normal humans and extrimists. You decide if you are an extrimist or human.
No country is a perfect example for Islam, however if you'll are so hell bent on not discussing I shall not elaborate further.
Bye and Hopefully God/Allah/Buddha/Mosses/whoever you belive in gives everybody understanding.
If anybody really has any questions, with an aim of furthering understanding I will always answer it on my own blog. Here you'll seem too closed minded to even discuss.
Discuss. Discuss what? 9.5? 9.29? 5.82? Another hundred or two hundred passages in the Qur'an? Which Hadith in Bukhari and Muslim are you willing to discuss? What details in the life of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, are you ready to talk about, among those listed above (Banu Qurayza, Asma bint Marwan, Abu Akaf, Khaybar Oasis, Aisha, for a start)? What about the 1350-year history of Muslim conquest of non-Muslim lands, and the imposition of the condition of the dhimmi, are you willing to talk about? The Jizyah? The many other legal, social, economic, and religious disabilities placed o the non-Muslim? The massacres of 60-70 million Hindus by Muslims? The inability of Islam to permit those born into Islam to exercise freedom of conscience and leave Islam, if they so choose? The discouragement of all free and skeptical inquiry in Islam, without which science and so much else becomes impossible? The narrow limits on forms of artistic expression?
What exactly did you wish to discuss? How Islam 'reveres Moses and Jesus"? How we are all just part of one great big "Abrahamic faith"? What sort of nonsense did you think could be passed off here, to people who have, one by one, somehow managed to educate themselves about the tenets, attitudes, atmospherics of Islam, and about the history of Jihad-conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims?
'Ayatollah Khomeini "just wanted to go into his mosque and prey...." '~ BPA
Good Call!
Muslim Unity which part of the koran dont you get?
do you ignore all the bad parts, about 7/8 of the book? l mean do you want to follow by example the life of your leader "mohummad", what is there in the koran that is so great? you came here to educate us non muslims.. now you answer the many questions that have been posed to you, or are you like so many muslims before come here and start whinning and leave without defending and or answering our questions.. you can become the pet naessem.
If anybody really has any questions, with an aim of furthering understanding I will always answer it on my own blog. Here you'll seem too closed minded to even discuss.
Posted by: Muslim Unity at December 14, 2006 06:50 AM
Muslim Unity, it is'nt we you need to discuss with, but rather the jehadists who kill and slaughter so readily in the name of your religion.
THANK YOU HUGH!!
Or does he not see, or think that we, the Infidels, do not see this, when everyday more and more do see, do study, do have brought to their attention, do slowly, and then more rapidly, begin to comprehend -- not least because of the observable behavior of Muslims, prompted by those texts and not a perversion of those texts, all around the world.
fROM THE ARTICLE:
"If things become so bad in Iraq, like an ethnic cleansing, we will feel we are pulled into the war,” the diplomat was quoted as saying."
WELLL DUUHHHHH, "Ethnic cleansing" is currently going on, Islamic activities worldwide are cleansing the the world of the Infidel. HECK, they are "cleansing" each other too. HMMMM , what do you call that??
The fight is between normal humans and extrimists
Not quite, the fight is between the world and Islam.
“If things become so bad in Iraq, like an ethnic cleansing, we will feel we are pulled into the war,” the diplomat was quoted as saying.
That's a hot one. The Saudis never get off their butts and DO anything. They, like the Iranians, always get other idiots to do the dirty work for them.
Bush is running out of chances to appease both the liberal, "get our troops out of Iraq now" sentiment, and logical military strategy of compelling Saudi intervention into their Sunni / Shia civil war.
We just need to set a hard-line schedule for our exit. If the Saudis wish to allow Iran to take control of Iraq, so be it. If not, they will have to either put up or shut up.
I maintain that a long, messy civil war is the best possible outcome to aid OUR cause. I care not about their cause.
Bush's bedfellow attitude towards the Saudis is starting to present a true conflict of interest.
He must realize, or be compelled to realize that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not ring true in this respect.
We here on JW know the Saudis are in no way our allies, unfortunately the Ham-Hander-in-Chief does not, or just will not accept this obvious truth.
Let the Saudis lay down their lives in this struggle in Iraq. The more lives lost by the Sunnis and Shi'ites collectively only strengthens our position.
That was the point of Muslim_Unity's claim that it is a "shame" they are kiling each other. It throws a serious wrench in their unified Jihad against Israel and the West.
Memo to Muslim_Unity: One man's shame is another's glory. As previous posters have stated in this thread, we don't need you here. We see through your ideological lies. Spread the word amongst other "moderate" Muslims, like yourself, that will actually make a difference. Not just on your politically motivated, rarely visited blog.
It is not our duty to understand Muslims in the way you wish. We fully understand Islam as it exists and is being applied today. It is your duty to refom Islam and take back your supposedly "hijacked" religion from the Islamic "extremists".
Until that is undertaken, Islam will and MUST be viewed as the enemy of Israel and the West.
Well, it looks like Muslim Unity is getting the discussion he so desired. Maybe like drinking from a firehose. Fantasitic posts, Hugh.
BetterPatAttention said:
"I talked to a muslim lady the other day and she is in total denial of what is going on in her country, Thailand (or a really good lier..I can't tell the difference anymore)."
I work with several muslims, and an iranian joo. (he bailed out when the Shah was tossed). In telling of the atrocities that Iran did with minefield clearing in the iran/iraq war (they used children to clear the fields), the paki muslim at the table could not - no, would not - believe such an atrocity could be committed.
They are in complete denial of their bretheren, or they are indeed good poker players.
and I have heard the "Jesus is mentioned more in the Quoran that Mohammed" crap enough to know it is just that - crap.
We here on JW know the Saudis are in no way our allies, unfortunately the Ham-Hander-in-Chief does not, or just will not accept this obvious truth...
Remember the Saudis are Bush's allies; not necessarily allies of the US.
It will be the Saudis and their gold dinar system that will save Bush's assests after the Fed engineers the collapse of the US economy, and Bush abandons the dollar and introduces the "Amero" as "only way" to "keep America's economy strong."
I don't like the fact that the Fed has not publish M3 since earlier this year because it implies that there is an awful lot of liquidity in the economy among other things -- bad news! (look, you can verify this for yourself if you are interested -- its all public record!)
What I am saying is that Bush is a busy boy and likes to "deny it, deny it, deny it;" and this denial of what the Saudis actually stated, is but one example.
Bush like his denial brother Clinton, is a traitor in my humble estimation.
Gaawd I hate to be a "Bush-basher;" but this whack-job-for-an-elected-official, needs "bashing."
Why? Because he is dangerous to the survival of the United States, and is a graver threat in many ways than the Iranian ape who sees green things.
Muslim Unity - I for one consider the Sunni-Shiite rift a blessing. It is one of civilization's best chances to deflect and diffuse the Islamic threat, if we have the skill and will to pour fuel on that fire.
"Remember the Saudis are Bush's allies"
Posted by: witness at December 14, 2006 09:21 AM
Fully understood. I thought that was obvious from my post.
"not necessarily allies of the US"
Posted by: witness at December 14, 2006 09:21 AM
Drop the "necessarily" and we will be in agreement. Necessarily implies that they may be "moderate" Muslims. Not ones who export their wealth with the construction of Mosques and Muslim schools worldwide that spread the jihadist, "Death to America" war-cry.
"Gaawd I hate to be a "Bush-basher;" but this whack-job-for-an-elected-official, needs "bashing.""
Posted by: witness at December 14, 2006 09:21 AM
Fret not, I already did it for you. "Bedfellow attitude" and "Ham-Hander-in-Chief" are certainly not compliments.
We need to and hopefully will address the Bush / Saudi relationship, but we have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
Our first priority is to compel the blood of the Saudi and Sunni brethren, as well as the Shi'ites, to spill and run like rivers in that cursed land.
-Bush like his denial brother Clinton, is a traitor in my humble estimation
Then all is truly lost. If our 2 party system is deaf, dumb and blind who will save us? JihadWatch? I love this site to the detriment of my job and yet no one here is running for office of any kind or organizing rallies to give us a visual presence.
In actuality, we are just repelling the propaganda while 95% of our people and government could really just care less.
-As previous posters have stated in this thread, we don't need you here
I disagree! We need more muslims on this site so that WE may wage the only kind of war that we here at JihadWatch can... A verbal one!
Two lessons to keep in mind:
(1) Nothing is confirmed by the government until it is officially denied.
(2) America has never lost a war, but it has never won a conference.
Muslim Unity:
Phew!
I've spent the best part of this morning reading through your archives.
You appear to be suffering from the classic Islamyopian view of the world. How do you control your anger in view of your cognitive dissonance?
'I feel there should be no borders on this Earth, all should live as one.' 18/07/06
'This money and resources belong to us. Each one of us in the middle-east is living in the richest areas in the world.' 24/07/06
'Islam never teaches to kill.' Then go on to say you would like to see public executions. 15/07/06
Football-An alternative to war.
'Football is a good alternative to war. It is fun, and people don’t die, especially innocent people.' 12/06/06
' I feel what Zidane did was very mild, in fact I would have been much happier if something more lethal would have been done by Zidane.' 10/07/06
I digged your M.E peace piece.
'A solution to Israeli aggression.'
1. Israel must be disarmed in the same way that Japan and Germany were after WWII. They would not be allowed to have any military or national guard in the coming years. Nuclear weapons arsenals would be evacuated from the region.
2. As an assurance of safety to the Israelis, they would accept a multinational peacekeeping force within their borders to serve as a national guard. The force would not move outside of the newly established borders of the state of Israel and would include participation from Muslim nations.
3. The walls must all come down and the borders of Israel must be reinstituted on both a historical precedent and agreement by the democratic majority in the region including that of surrounding nations.
4. They would be required to pay concessions and to actively rebuild the infrastructure of the surrounding areas according to the demands of those affected by their aggression.
5. All refuges would be returned to their home regions and provided with housing and temporary financial assistance financed by Israel in conjunction with foreign assistance over a period not greater than 5 years. No previous acquisition of land except for by explicit sale or willing mutual consent would be binding in the reintroduction strategy.
'Nothing less than such declaration and demands will be of any value to establishing peace in the region.' 31/07/06
One thing I did find curious was you losing your job. You were reluctant to share with us the reason/s. First it had something to do with forged papers??? and later you mentioned it was to do with your willingness to continue your blog that cost you your job. Please clarify.
I was saddened to hear that your 'friends' would not help you financially when times were difficult. As Mr Sina once said, Muslims will not give to causes that they will not benefit from. If you had asked for funding jihad then Allah would have blessed you manifold.
Ready to discuss?
Muslim Unity: How do you cry for unity among any people including Muslims? Islam is all about dividing things: people, booty, inheritance and so on.
Mohammed said in hadith that Islam would have 72 sects and only one would be the true sect on the day of judgement. That means the ummah as one thing will never be achieved. Allah said over and over that Muslims were separate and better than those who persist in al-Fitnah ( disbelief or worshipping things other than the unity of Allah). Those Muslims should fight those in disbelief. That is an order.
Who are you trying to deceive? Yourself or us?
First of all I have not run away- I was told by the people here to leave. They didn't want me to discuss anything. I had come here to have a discussion and answer any question you'll might have had.
So on one hand you'll ask several questions- and then don't allow me to answer. Very Strange. Talk about being democratic and open.
Hatred is one of the central features of islam. Always angry, always aggrieved, always 'humiliated'. Hard to keep all that bile and acrimony constantly focused on the Americans or on the jooze. If the last two people left on earth were male muslims, they would surely kill one another.
Muslim Unity - jihadwatch forums consist of many minds from many viewpoints. Of course they don't agree. This is an example of 'freedom of expression' and 'freedom of conscience'.
How about addressing this basic question?
How do you cry for unity among any people including Muslims? Islam is all about dividing things: people, booty, inheritance and so on.
Mohammed said in hadith that Islam would have 72 sects and only one would be the true sect on the day of judgement. That means the ummah as one thing will never be achieved. Allah said over and over that Muslims were separate and better than those who persist in al-Fitnah ( disbelief or worshipping things other than the unity of Allah). Those Muslims should fight those in disbelief. That is an order.
Who are you trying to deceive? Yourself or us?
"It is a shame that people are fighting wars on the basis of being Sunni or Shia. We are all humans".
Yes, war is a terrible thing and it's best avoided. However, there is only one system of belief in this world that not only seeks to NOT avoid war, but to accelerate its coming and to make it the worst of all wars. It's as if that system of belief's adherents feel they are superior to everyone else in the world and must therefore dominate the planet. One guess as to the name of that system of belief.
exsgtbrown sez: "HECK, they are "cleansing" each other too. HMMMM , what do you call that??"
A valid observation and a good question, and the answer is:
That would be a symbiotic relationship, sorta like mutual parasitism. But, that's islam for ya'. Just a bunch of savages taking advantage of others, and brutalizing them, whenever they have the chance.
The Mid-East is nothing more than a bunch of uncivilized TRIBES with flags and guns and oil. Muslims in general are so far behind that they think they're in front.
Muslim Unity does not understand that most of the posters here know more about the Quran, Hadith and Islam than she does.
Knowledge runs downhill, Muslim Unity, it would be better for you to ASK someone, more knowledgable than you a question, than to show up assuming that you know enough to 'solicit' questions. Scholarly and non scholarly muslims, both show up here regularly, and cant compete with the infidel/non believing posters here. You are clearly over your head...You should be reading JW/DW with an open mind and be ready to question your own beliefs...of course I know you are not capable of that...it is not your fault that Allah created women stupid, so that he could easier possess your soul, I did not say you are stupid...Allah said it...proof...
Tabari I:280 "Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make her bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' "Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of the world menstruate and are stupid."
So possibly, if you humble yourself before superior knowledge, you can learn something here that would release Allahs grip on your heart...
The problem isn't that the moslem scum in Saudi Arabia are supporting the Sunnis, which they are as a method of safeguarding against Shia expansion, but that America is supporting the Saudis.
Moslems do what moslems do: kill and enslave people who don't believe exactly as they do. But, Bush and company pretending that these terrorists in Saudi Arabia are somehow our "allies" is the true sin, because Americans as a whole know better and are not being properly represented by our government.
We cannot effectively fight a war on islamic terrorism unless we stop coddling moslem countries that are exporting it.
Oh, wait, I forgot that the venerable James Baker has concluded that this will all clear up once the JEWS surrender their sovereignty in Israel to the Pseudostinians. Sorry.
-MZ
MUSLIM UNITY: YOU ARE AN I-G-N-O-R-A-M-U-S!!!
@Muslimunity
I just read your blog. You wrote the following:
"Jesus never said to kill innocent people who belong to another religion nor did Prophet Muhammad nor did Musa nor did any other religion say such things."
Mr. Muslimunity: YOU ARE AN IGNORAMUS
Here is what the Evil One (Mohammad) said:
(2) And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then SLAY them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
It is a shame that people are fighting wars on the basis of being Sunni or Shia. We are all humans.
I registered here in hopes that all of you'll can understand us better. In hopes that we can bridge gaps between each other.
Also Saudi Arabia or Afghnaistan is not the best example of Islam.
Posted by: Muslim Unity
WE DO UNDERSTAND you VERY WELL, BORG!!!!!
activate this link to view a picture of bill clinton bowing his head in respect to those al qaeda terrorist in march 2003! while we were fighting them in afghanistan and iraq!
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Demo-Nazis.html
Posted by: Thndrbang
Like it says in that linked site: Before you vote for the next Democrat, think about this... Especially if said Democrat is Hitlery.
However, we need a REAL Conservative in 08. NOTanyone tainted by SOWdi money. It's good to create awareness of things like this going on. Bill Clinton had NO business going to honor moslems - especially less than two years after 9/11.
The problem isn't that the moslem scum in Saudi Arabia are supporting the Sunnis, which they are as a method of safeguarding against Shia expansion, but that America is supporting the Saudis.
Posted by: Madzionist at December 14, 2006 11:52 AM
Supporting the Saudis? Hell, the US is merely a vassal state to those miserable cretins. Some superpower the US is, cringing before these losers while forking over billions for their oil. Our politicians should be ashamed of themselves for letting this go on for so long. I do give the Saudis credit though-they sure know how to play American politics, buying up politicians from both parties better than even US lobbyists do.
"Pseudostinians"-that's by far the best term I've seen for those supreme losers and "victims". I love it!
However, we need a REAL Conservative in 08. NOTanyone tainted by SOWdi money.
Posted by: germaninamerica at December 14, 2006 12:13 PM
Boy, that'll be a hell of a find. That might be more difficult than finding those mythical moderate Muslims. Everybody talks about how Jews control everything- the Saudis seemingly HAVE accomplished that with their dirty oil money.
After a half-decade, Dubya's still in denial. I never did like Tony Snow, anyway.
I registered here in hopes that all of you'll can understand us better. In hopes that we can bridge gaps between each other.
--- Moslem Unity
Renounce the Koran and Sunnah, Moslem Unity, and then we can talk.
it's unfortunate that many of you only think Western. and some revert to name calling and flaming.
instead consider that Islam is the Lavant.
they don't think of themselves with the borders that we recognize. therefore labeling Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi is irrelevant.
to understand the enemy is to understand their way of thinking and mindset, which is not Western.
I just read this report:
Saudis Planning to 'Clean up' al Qaeda in Anbar
December 14, 2006 12:13 PM
Alexis Debat Reports:
A Saudi intelligence official told ABC News that if his government decided, as King Abdullah has threatened, to help the Sunni community defend itself against Shia militias in Iraq, they would start by "cleaning up" the volatile Anbar province of its al Qaeda networks.
"We will clean up Anbar village by village because we don't want them to have a rear base in Iraq to attack Saudi Arabia," says the source, who adds that Saudi intelligence has already laid out extensive networks in Anbar province, where a Sunni insurgency has gained a stronghold"
This is interesting as most American casualties are caused by Sunnis.
Right, and we're winning in Iraq too.
Credible sources reported this development over a week ago. One wonders why The Decider & Co. waited so long to lie about it.
Geez wouldn't you think that with relationships like this we could get a little more cooperation?
So on one hand you'll ask several questions- and then don't allow me to answer. Very Strange. Talk about being democratic and open.
Posted by: Muslim Unity
I am sorry Mr. Unity. You see passions are high. Tell us how you wish to bring peace. Afterall we need details and you have not given us any. Tell me how I as a non-muslim can leave in peace with you if you are a devout muslim. I am open to listen. Give us the details so everyone can understand.
We non-muslims are not dangerous in fact we are all smiles :)
Give us your vision of the future...
In fact we like debate!
Everyone be aware that Muslim Unity is perhaps doing this on purpose to get neat quotes about this site for his blog. He is using the all religions are the same mantra. So let him in and perhaps the more enlightened (such as perhaps Mr. Spencer or Hugh) can inform and debate. He will use our comments to attack us for being racist (as he as already called us on his blog). He comes in sounding like a lamb and then puts up the responses from us that sound hostile. He is setting up traps for us to feed in. So lets see if he can convince us of his great dream of religious harmony with Islam.
In other words we may not be dealing with a muslim who knows his own faith...we have a duty to inform not to attack. Lets try him save him with kindness..:)
Hehe.
Traps can be set both ways...
Jesus never said to kill innocent people who belong to another religion nor did Prophet Muhammad nor did Musa nor did any other religion say such things.
Oh yeah?
* 2:216 * 4:74 * 9:111 * 8:12 * 4:96 * 56:22 * 38:51 * 55:56 * 55:76 * 56:22 * 8:74 * 9:2 *
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day.
--- God commanding the murder of Infidels in Koran 9:29
Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.
--- God the Jew murderer and land thief in Koran 33:26
The next morning, the Jews were in a state of fear on account of our attack upon the enemy of Allah. After the assassination, the Prophet declared, “Kill every Jew.”
--- Mohammed calling for Jew murder in Tabari VII:97
Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.
--- Mohammed spouting still more kill-the-Jew orders in Bukhari Vol. 1 Bk. 1 No. 6
Hey check it out he is selling the Truth about Muhammed by Robert Spencer on his site!
Or at least Amazon is as a rolling advertisement!
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
God Irony!
see:
http://muslimunity.blogspot.com/2006/08/something-i-didnt-shareearlier.html
KING FAUD SPEAKS
"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."
King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993
WAS Charles Freeman the ambassador at that time??? I cannot recall. Other Americans of some note during that time period___
Robert Jordan
Ollie North
James Baker
Richard Armitage
Elliot ABrams
Janet Reno....
UHHH, I am getting a headache.
When are we going to become energy-independent so that we can tell the Saudis that they can kiss our collective asses? When are we going to finally put an end to the need for Arab oil by using our own vast reserves and our technological superiority?
If this would finally happen, then the Muslim Middle East will revert back to the dirt-poor, tent-dwelling barbarians that they are, they would lord over no one, and all hope for a universal Jihad movement would fade away.
It's already in the works...
Saudi has dropped to #5 importer and continues to.
#1 now is Canada, #2 is Mexico...and so on.
(that's why our prices dropped so abruptly this year)...
...but that aside, check the news...looks like King Abdullah is a little upset at the saudi ambassador to the US, and has recalled him for it.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/06/front2454083.20625.html
Interesting...most interesting.
Given daddy and dubya romming in petro-dollars for generations, given Bin-Ladens financed dubya's businesses, given Barbara adopted wahabbi Babdar and given dubya went AWOL. Given brother Jeb manipulated Florida votes to get dubya elected and given dubya's comfort with Mexico, as against the country he is president of, who can put it past dubya to do whatever it takes to serve his wahabbi masters?
American lives are dispensible as long as votes come in ample supply... and illegal mexicans more than fit the bill... so what are a few American ives & WTS buildings? Case in Point, did you notice how high dubya jumped when Riyadh askd him to drop one word: Islamofascists?
Think ...........
"Hey check it out he is selling the Truth about Muhammed by Robert Spencer on his site!"
Posted by: greatcometof1577
Comet,
I laughed until I nearly aspirated when I pulled up the link. They had Ibn Warraq's "Why I am not a Muslim", too!
I laughed until I nearly aspirated when I pulled up the link. They had Ibn Warraq's "Why I am not a Muslim", too!
Posted by: Concerned Citizen
Yea, the best part is if you keep doing it the more come up...
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer
While Europe Slept by Bruce Bawer
Godless by Ann Coulter (not one of my favs..little nutz for me...but the last thing I would think would appear on a self described Muslim Anarchist website would be her)
The Holy Bible (go figure...he said he wants faith dialoge)
Reading Lolita in Tehran Azar Nafisi (Women reading dead western white guys and freeing themselves from Islamic Bondage)
It just goes on...
After furthur investigation I have concluded that Muslim Unity does not know his faith very well and it seems the muslims radicals have sent him hate mail attacking him for talking to us non-muslims. I suppose when a radical goes to his website and sees the Holy Bible for sale and Mr. Spencers books up that will not make a good impression. In fact I feel sorry for him. He keeps this up someone from the Ummah might dis-unify him. His heart is in the right place but he is just wrong. A lamb to the slaughter by his own faith.
greatcometof1577:
It's my belief that Muslim Unity is a SHE.