Here is an extraordinary piece by Bruce S. Thornton, "Holy Wisdom: Why the Pope should call for the return of the Hagia Sophia," that pinpoints exactly why I have felt so uneasy about the Pope's trip to Turkey.
Many in the West are congratulating Pope Benedict XVI’s recent trip to Turkey, where in the Blue Mosque he prayed facing Mecca and made other gestures meant to salve the wounds raised by his references to Islam’s history of violence. Personally, I found the whole scene a depressing exhibit of the West’s terminal failure of nerve, one particularly distressing given this Pope’s documented understanding that what we call the “war on terror” is in fact the latest episode in the centuries-long struggle with a militant Islam.In the Pope’s visit and the media response to it, we once again witnessed the one-way street of “religious tolerance” and “respect.” In other words, the West is supposed to respect and tolerate Muslims and Islam, all the while that no such respect is afforded to Christians and Jews. The West is supposed to feel guilty and obsess over its putative crimes against Islam, all the while that the longer chronicle of Islamic assault against the West is forgotten. Hence the ridiculous ignorance of those who think the Crusades were “holy wars” akin to jihadic aggression. Somehow it’s forgotten that the Holy Land was Greco-Roman and Hebraic and Christian for centuries before the armies of Allah destroyed that cultural continuity and imposed a new culture and religion at the point of a sword.
This double standard was particularly obvious given the backdrop of the Pope’s visit –– the city of Istanbul. Once known as Constantinople, this was one of the great cities of Classical and Christian culture, home to one of Christendom’s most magnificent churches, Hagia Sophia, the church of the Holy Wisdom. On May 29, 1453, Constantinople ceased to exist, falling to the armies of the Sultan Mehmet II: “By noon,” John Julius Norwich writes, “the streets were running red with blood. Houses were ransacked, women and children raped or impaled, churches razed, icons wrenched from their golden frames, books ripped from their silver bindings. . . . In the church of St. Saviour in Chora the mosaics and frescoes were miraculously spared, but the Empire’s holiest icon, the Virgin Hodegetria, said to have been painted by St. Luke himself, was hacked into four pieces and destroyed. The most hideous scenes of all, however, were enacted in the church of the Holy Wisdom. Matins were already in progress when the berserk conquerors were heard approaching. Immediately the great bronze doors were closed; but the Turks soon smashed their way in. The poorer and more unattractive of the congregation were massacred on the spot; the remainder were lashed together and led off to the Turkish camps, for their captors to do with as they liked. As for the officiating priests, they continued with the Mass as long as they could before being killed at the high altar.”
Ancient history, you say, irrelevant to the present? But do not the Muslims repeatedly invoke the historical crimes of the West to justify terrorism? Are not the sins of colonialism and imperialism continually cited, even though France and England’s 150 years in the Middle East and North Africa are dwarfed by Islam’s several centuries in Spain and the Balkans and the cradle of the West, Greece? Is there some statute of limitations on conquest and the transfer of territory that attends it, so that the conquests of Islam are legitimized by time, while those of the West can never be?
Why do we accept this double standard? Why are the continuing persecution of Christians today, despicable anti-Semitic slanders, and the desecration of temples and churches in Muslim lands shrugged away in the West, while trivial cartoons and mere statements of historical fact are met with hysteria, violence, and threats? Why are churches disappearing throughout the lands of Christianity’s birth and growth, while huge mosques are going up in London and Milan? Why are Christians and Jews forbidden entry into Saudi Arabia, while Muslims in Europe demand special privileges and recognition of their faith?
Nowhere is this insane, groveling capitulation of the West more obvious than in its treatment of Israel. By all rights, when Israel recaptured Jerusalem from Jordan –– in a defensive war Israel did not want, a war Israel literally begged Jordan to stay out of –– Israel could have razed the Aqsa mosque and rebuilt the temple on the site it had stood on for centuries before Islam even existed. Instead, the Temple Mount is still controlled by Muslims, who are free to worship in the mosque all the while they allow the children of Allah to throw stones on the Jews who come to worship at the few scraps of the temple wall, all that is left to them of their holiest site. Meanwhile the countries of the West decry the “illegal occupation” of Jerusalem and Judea and Galilee, refuse to put their embassies in the capital of Israel, and continually demand more and more concessions to a people who have made it clear that their conquest of Jerusalem is legitimate, that Israelis, not they, are the interloper in the Jews’ historical homeland, and that violence against innocents is justified to undo a history deemed to violate Allah’s will.
When will we learn that this forbearance is not a testimony to our strength but rather a sign of our cultural sickness? Would that the Pope had stood in Hagia Sophia and asked the Turks to restore this Christian monument to the Orthodox Church, as a sign that Turkey is sincere about entering the modern world and accepting its canons of reciprocal tolerance, not to mention showing the sort of regret for its ancestors’ crimes that the West is continually dunned to show. What do you think the reaction would have been? How many Christians would have died in the ensuing riots by the adherents of the “religion of peace”? And how many Western commentators would have scourged the Pope for his blinkered intolerance and insensitivity?
No, the enemy knows that what we pretend to be “tolerance” and “respect” are merely the camouflage of spiritual exhaustion and fear. We have fewer and fewer men like those who created the West in the teeth of Islamic aggression, men like the Byzantine Greek Lucas Notaras. After the sack of Constantinople, the Sultan demanded Notaras’s beautiful 14-year-old son for the royal harem: “When Notaras still defied the Sultan,” Steven Runciman writes, “orders were given for him and the two boys [his son and son-in-law] to be decapitated on the spot. Notaras merely asked that they should be slain before him, lest the sight of his death should make them waver. When they had both perished, he bared his neck to the executioner.” As Nestor says in the Iliad, “Men like those I have not seen again, nor ever will.”
“When Notaras still defied the Sultan,” Steven Runciman writes, “orders were given for him and the two boys [his son and son-in-law] to be decapitated on the spot. Notaras merely asked that they should be slain before him, lest the sight of his death should make them waver. When they had both perished, he bared his neck to the executioner.” As Nestor says in the Iliad, “Men like those I have not seen again, nor ever will.”
Things like these, like WW2, might as well have happened in another universe. It's becoming harder and harder to conceive of these things with what we've become today. The West can blame itself for much of Islamania's advance-everytime Islam has been in trouble the West stupidly helps it to endure. Throw in the Western created cancer called PC and its offshoots moral relativism and multiculturalism is it any wonder why Islamania is engulfing the world? It's almost miraculous that it hasn't buried us all yet.
The xtians need an Ayodhya movement to demolish the illegal mosques built on churches
The xtians need an Ayodhya movement to demolish the illegal mosques built on churches
Posted by: Shyamsunder at December 8, 2006 08:01 AM
This is an understatement. I remember that story and thinking at the time how terrible that was.
Now I know better and am impressed at how quickly the job got done with a minimum use of tools. Are those Hindus available for further such work? We certainly could use them! They can start in Jersusalem and work throughout the West.
Islam intends to destroy all other religion. I am reminded of one of Sir Winston Churchills speeches:
Be Ye Men of Valour"
"Arm yourselves, and be ye men of valour, and be in readiness for the conflict; for it is better for us to perish in battle than to look upon the outrage of our nation and our altar." This call and spur to the faithful servants of Truth and Justice was quoted by Churchill in his first broadcast as Prime Minister to the British people on the BBC - May 19, 1940, London.
true, true, true!!!.
Churchill in his grave is still a vast improvement over what passes for leadership today in the world of the living.
The west will go one with this way till he understand (if ever) that there is things,after all, which money cant buy. Presently, there is dull attitude that for islamic bestiality poverty is reason. So all in all, worst enemy of civilisation is actualy lurking among us in our dear "dar al harib".Till we get rid of them, minority will be able to see the grand evilness of "dar al islam"
One more thing. This pope knows islam. At least some of his sentences sugest that. But he also know multiculturalism in his 'rights for everyone',and the danger which its bring to modern man. Trouble with the west is that of all beautifull Bible verses, we forgot even the most important ones, like: Man doesnt live only by his bread.
By all rights, when Israel recaptured Jerusalem from Jordan –– in a defensive war Israel did not want, a war Israel literally begged Jordan to stay out of –– Israel could have razed the Aqsa mosque and rebuilt the temple on the site it had stood on for centuries before Islam even existed. Instead, the Temple Mount is still controlled by Muslims, who are free to worship in the mosque all the while they allow the children of Allah to throw stones on the Jews who come to worship at the few scraps of the temple wall, all that is left to them of their holiest site.
I'm just not sure what it is about Moslems that Israelis don't understand. Any conciliatory move by Israel is seen as only one thing by Moslems: weakness. The Israelis should have razed that abomination immediately. If they did that, they would have earned the respect of the entire Moslem world. Not love, not friendship, just respect.
This from Frontpagemag.com
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25888
The tolerance of non moslems has a limit.
In the UK we are continually being pushed by our pc masters, however the tide will turn.
AI
It is time for America, Israel and the rest of the world to cage the dove, withdraw the olive branch and to prepare for the defense of the homeland and to arm for the final showdown.
NO MORE MR NICE GUY.
Maybe things are getting slightly better - I nearly fell off my perch when I read the headline on this speech by Townee.
Of course the Pope should call for the return of the Hagia Sophia because it belongs to Christendom. Here's a petition:
http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/contact-secure.php
thomas ato,
Thanks for this link. I too am amazed that Tony Blair said this:
"He continued: “London is perhaps the most popular capital city in the world today partly because it is hospitable to so many different nationalities, mixing, working, conversing with each other.
“But we protect this attitude by defending it. Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain.
“So conform to it, or don’t come here. We don’t want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed.” "
____________________
"Or don't come here..." -- the sort of plain-speaking we are desperate for. But I just remembered, Tony Blair is on his way out ...
The west will go one with this way till he understand (if ever) that there is things,after all, which money cant buy. Presently, there is dull attitude that for islamic bestiality poverty is reason. So all in all, worst enemy of civilisation is actualy lurking among us in our dear "dar al harib".Till we get rid of them, minority will be able to see the grand evilness of "dar al islam"
Posted by: svemirko
if they are so POOR - they can always SELL us the Hagia Sophia :-)
I like the fact that Robert engages in REVERSE Turnaround speak!! Great work!!! Our 'atrocities' truly pale in light of theirs. Many of them I'd never heard of before Jihadwatch.
Thank you, Robert Hugh and Marisol for educating us. The evidence is also coming in from other sources. Let noone say we are a bunch of misguided fools who are spoonfed our history from only one place. This is merely the starting-out point.
Besides.. the thousands upon thousands pro-islamic websites are more eye-opening than anything Robert could ever say :-)
Just look under Hamas on Youtube and then see how many of the commenters love Hamas and live in Europe and in Canada. They need to be picked up and expelled - or they need to be taken care of some other way. Let me go talk to some people on Mulberry Street...
To gemaninamerica
Yeah :). But then again, you can trade only with decent people.Not with muslims.There is a saying here in balkans: If muslim say to you:good day,than first turn around to see if there is a day or a night falls outside.
P.S.Recently I read a book about gratest explorer ever (to whom I realy admire)-Christiphor Columbus. What a wonderfull man. Not just he found unknown continet (although he dont realise that),but he actualy done all that just to aquaire money to launch massive crusade and liberate Jerusalem. He also wants to dried up muslim incomes from taxes on trade with far east (specialy wise and visionary). He also plan to rebuild Solomons temple (which brings double pleasure-destroying islamic monstrocity,and creating ancient monument for premuslim inhabitants).And he dedicate portion of wealth to buy (redeem) christian slaves from muslim slavery, since muslims are true genies to earn the money without work (kidnapping, extortion, plundering, slavery, jizya...only they are too lasy to even write a manual for dummies about that). That was one of the most nobles exemples of virtue and Columbus (Christ bearer) understand for what purpose money realy exist.
I'm just not sure what it is about Moslems that Israelis don't understand. Any conciliatory move by Israel is seen as only one thing by Moslems: weakness. The Israelis should have razed that abomination immediately. If they did that, they would have earned the respect of the entire Moslem world. Not love, not friendship, just respect.
Posted by: Seymour Paine
THEY understand [maybe not Olmert or Haaretz].. but WE keep hemming them in.. undermining them.. calling them names.. telling them what they may and may not do in exercise of their self-defense!!
I agree they should have razed that abomination.
It is time for America, Israel and the rest of the world to cage the dove, withdraw the olive branch and to prepare for the defense of the homeland and to arm for the final showdown.
NO MORE MR NICE GUY.
Posted by: exsgtbrown
Time to ROAST the dove and garnish with olives.. Eat the whole thing and GO TO WAR!
PS. no more war with one-sided Rules of Engagement.
muslims are true genies to earn the money without work (kidnapping, extortion, plundering, slavery, jizya...only they are too lasy to even write a manual for dummies about that). That was one of the most nobles exemples of virtue and Columbus (Christ bearer) understand for what purpose money realy exist.
Posted by: svemirko
You are definitely right, Mirko. On almost everything but...
Except on one point: Those bastards do have a manual about "kidnapping, extortion, plundering, slavery, jizya..."
It's the KKKoran.
Aaahhhh.. NOW you remember!!
LOL
LOL :)
Yeah, somethimes its just temporary amnesia.
germaninamerica:
It's not just Olmert and Haaretz. There are still those self-appointed protectors of Jewish morality who believe they can exchange land for peace with parties who keep assuring them that no matter how much financial and political pressure they are put under, they will never cede an inch of the lands between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean.
Only a couple of weeks ago, Peace Now misrepresented the rightful ownership of West Bank land in order to paint the Jewish presence there as completely unlawful because they continue to believe that Israelis will be able to enjoy their own independent state within the 1948 Armistice Borders.
And don't even mention the Israelis who give aid and comfort to the ISM, and, tragically, there are some.
My "idea" of buying the Hagia Sophia was obviously meant as a case-in-point. They are "poor" by choice, not by necessity. As Mirko pointed out they only know how to do "kidnapping, extortion, plundering, slavery, jizya..."
We need to STOP feeding our ENEMIES!! We need to make new friends among those who have similar ideals.
And we need to let go of those who mean us harm.. that means us Germans and French especially need to let go of the Pals and the Bosnians. And the turks.
None of them mean us anything good!!!
We must open up to the Serbs and ask them to forgive us for following Bill Clinton into that studid abuse of Nato power against Serbia who were lterally cleaning up at Europe's doorstep and HOW did we thank them for it?!
Noone advocates war and mayhem but this is something that the moslems forced on the Serbs and they have the Right to defend themselves. Albania is an abomination within Europe and must go the way of islamic Andalucia.
That "farthest mosque" is there just to usurp and replace the holiest Jewish site. In the preposterous muslim historical record, it is where their 'prophet' hallucinated riding up into the sky on that back of some sort of jackass. To the Jews, that place was central to their very spirit and being. We will know that civilization has joined the battle in a serious way when that trivial satanic shrine, a very affront to the Almighty, is permanently eradicated from that place and the Jewish Temple is rebuilt, and when Hagia Sophia is returned to her rightful owners.
We will know that civilization has joined the battle in a serious way when that trivial satanic shrine, a very affront to the Almighty, is permanently eradicated from that place and the Jewish Temple is rebuilt, and when Hagia Sophia is returned to her rightful owners.
Posted by: Infidel33
I'm with you on both points, 33.
WOW! what an article I am speechless! Yes the west and allies of old need to wake up. Notice also that hagia sophia and that whole area is on the European side its not on mainland turkey (asia minor). Perhaps Turkey should be pushed to give that area back as payment for all their muslim autrocities against Christians? I would immediately declare it a Greek province with official languages English, Greek and Armenian or a protectorate of the EU. Anyway the church hagia sophia,or the land and the chruch should be given back. Have you read the muslim killings in the church when the muslims invaded constantinople and broke into the church to find the praying Christian families in it? Its not for the weak at heart:
QUOTE:
"There, I thought of the worshipers fearfully singing the liturgy as the city walls were breached, as the slaughter began, as a Christian empire that had stood for more than 1,000 years perished."
When the muslims entered they killed the very old praying immediately and took little boys and girls into slavery and child marriage. They raped women in the santuary in front of the families and cut off the heads of young men and they set fire to various relics.
Please note ALL this was allowed by their leader not because "it was common to raiding armies of that time" as some like to say but because IT IS ALLOWED FOR UNDER ISLAM'S rules of war as found in the Quran/hadith. Including the rapes. Most of you here are well enough informed to know this but I state it since there are many people surfing in who have no idea.
The praying Christians in the Hagia Sophia church were immediately announced as slaves according to ISLAMIC rulees and those the above are considered OKAY. TO you surfing by --understand that NO OTHER RELIGIOUS OR PHILOSPHICAL SYSTEM allows for such actions and those who carry them in other systems are acting against those system's rules.
“And all the married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives/slaves) whom your right hand possess....” Qur'an 4:24 Sex with slave girls permitted. Also 23:6 and 33:50.
“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hand possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.”
----
THE FOLLOWING ARE SOME RULES OF JIHAD. ALL HADITH AND QURANIC SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR EACH PRINCIPLE ARE LOCATED IN THE LINK at the bottom of this post from where this is taken:
What are some rules of jihad?
1. Besides being enslaved, women are subjected to sex with their new Muslim masters.
2. The same sexual abuse happened to women who were part of the four-fifths of the spoils of war. Jihadists usually practiced coitus interruptus as they raped their slave women.
3. In one tradition, women and children should not be killed (Bukhari, Jihad, nos. 3014-3105; Muslim nos. 4319-4320; Abu Dawud, no. 2662). But this makes economic sense, because the victors could sell them into slavery or enjoy more sexual license with them
4. However, in another tradition, the women and children of polytheists are permitted to be killed during nighttime raids when visibility is low.
5. The enemy may be killed, enslaved, ransomed, released freely, or beaten.
6. Men are allowed (or forced) to convert.
7. In Islamic war, old men who are polytheists may be killed.
8. Property may be stolen.
9. Fruit trees may be destroyed.
10. Three options are imposed on the conquered.
What happens to the spoils in jihad?
In the hadith collection edited by Bukhari, an entire section is called "The Book of Obligations of Khumus." This latter word means one-fifth of the spoils of war. So twenty percent goes to Muhammad or the State, and eighty percent goes to the soldiers.
Reference
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/jihad.htm
PS beware there are dishonest sources that say in jihad you cannot kill or rape --THESE sources are written by muslims to put a good face on their religion. BUT THE SCHOOLS OF ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE (INCLUDING THE SHIA SCHOOL) DISAGREE WITH THE SOCALLED 'MODERATE' STATEMENTS. --THE HADITH AND QURAN AND ISLAMIC SCHOOL DECISIONS BASED ON THE HADITH/QURAN ARE ALWAYS THE RULE AND LAW IN SHARIA OF ISLAM.
PPS for the stories of rape of young boys and girls (allowed in Islam under jihad and spoils of war-for slaves in Islam) and hadith/quran support are located here:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:7_BPJ0S-BicJ:www.atheistfoundation.org.au/islamwhitewash.htm+your+hand+possess+Quran+hadith+quotes&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5
I warn you ahead of time that some of the stuff is
graphic --read only if you understand that and on an empty stomach (I am NOT kidding).
Sorry to throw this stuff at you surfers (the regulars here understand all this stuff) but the truth of what Islam really is about cannot be hid.
WE WILL SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 1, 2006 02:49 AM
notes: correction--His Holiness the Pope...
also:
"Because of the misunderstanding and ignorance of Christianity, Muslims believe that Christians are polytheists, because they believe in a Triune God. Fundamentalists look at Jews and Christians and all non-Muslims as infidels who must be killed because they have no value as human beings and must be exterminated from the face of the earth." [2]
hence the above principles of my previous post mention polytheists --this includes Christians (which the people in Constantinople and the church of Hagia Sophia were).
[1]
[2] is from:
http://www.thespiritofislam.com/nyattack01.html
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 1, 2006 02:55 AM
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2006/11/014251print.html
Albania is an abomination within Europe and must go the way of islamic Andalucia.
Posted by: germaninamerica at December 8, 2006 10:27 AM
Funny you should mention Albania. This place was created by the Great Powers in part to be an obstacle to Serbia back in 1912. It seems that the spirits of 1912 are still around in that region today-Serbia still is being shafted. Once again, the Islamaniacs are snatched from the jaws of victory thanks to the stupidity of the West. Some things just never change.
I thought the above repost was fitting for this thread.
---------
Also, quote:
"... Hence the ridiculous ignorance of those who think the Crusades were “holy wars” akin to jihadic aggression. Somehow it’s forgotten that the Holy Land was Greco-Roman and Hebraic and Christian for centuries before the armies of Allah destroyed that cultural continuity and imposed a new culture and religion at the point of a sword."
Demand Hagia Sophia back and that whole area. There were literrally millions of Christians in Asia Minor (turkey) AND in Constantinople(now Istanbul) area for almost 2 thousand years until muslims forcebly slaughetered and killed them and forced marched them out of Europe (but not before raiding the moving exodus of exiled Christians for their children to raise as child brides and rape and keep as slaves according to Islamic
mass kidnapping of Christian boys and girls in Turkey (to raise them as muslim and to marry the girls):
Armenian Genocide Survivor - Kevork Balian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdnHOSs0XNAjudisprudence)
oops sorry faulty paste of link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdnHOSs0XNA
"When they had both perished, he bared his neck to the executioner.” As Nestor says in the Iliad, “Men like those I have not seen again, nor ever will.”"
I don't agree with that statement. The absence of this type of leader is not because of a disappearance of them from our society, but instead an indication that our society has turned away from them. This type of man speaks the truth not PC jargon, leads armies not committees.
Funny you should mention Albania. This place was created by the Great Powers in part to be an obstacle to Serbia back in 1912. It seems that the spirits of 1912 are still around in that region today-Serbia still is being shafted. Once again, the Islamaniacs are snatched from the jaws of victory thanks to the stupidity of the West. Some things just never change.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS
Well, it needs to be UN-created in a Hurry! We mustn't be silent on the fact that there is this constant moslem element among us which is destroying our very way of life!
I wish Europe to be a FREE and Happy place once again. Or was it ever? Can it ever be?
Since you speak of Israel I demand that the Turks withdraw to their borders of 1071 AD and that the Palestinians remove their illegal settlements on Temple Mount
This place was created by the Great Powers in part to be an obstacle to Serbia back in 1912
Now that is one way to put it, but just two years later Britain, France and Russia were at war with the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires whose interests were in The Balkans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars
That is a bit like saying Woodrow Wilson re-created Poland in 1918 just to antagonise Germany
Excerpt from In Praise of the First and Second Amendments by Fjordman.
That is a bit like saying Woodrow Wilson re-created Poland in 1918 just to antagonise Germany
Posted by: Voyager at December 8, 2006 12:36 PM
Sort of. I never understood what the hell those guys were thinking by detaching East Prussia from the rest of Germany with the Polish Corridor. Like that wasn't a future war waiting to happen!
But, there are always those who try to push for plans that are known failures. Bush bears Wilson's brain in his head when he thinks "Palestine" is feasible. The man needs to look at a map!
have i read well?
"After the sack of Constantinople, the Sultan demanded Notaras’s beautiful 14-year-old son for the royal harem"
Pedophiles, the lot of them.
Posted by: StillFedUp at December 8, 2006 01:27 PM
You read it well alright. The Sultan was just a little impatient. He couldn't wait to get into that Islamic heaven with the 72 virgins and the young boys. He just couldn't contain his joy over having new victims to rape.
This proposal is a good start, however islam should be driven out completely from all stolen lands and made to return to their origins of desert hell.
the problem is that Muslims have this schizophrenic idea that any land that they have occupied is always there after Muslim lands and I guess they base this on the belif that all land is Allah's land and Islam must take over the world and the only faith in the world. So there is no way they will ever return the hagia sophia to people they consider infidels and sub human as non-Muslims must beto them as it seems Muslims consider themselves to be true humans so until Islam wiped out and all their mosques turned churches
"...in Amsterdam in 1992, Mohamed Rasoel, a Pakistani immigrant, was charged with racism for his book The Downfall of the Netherlands, Land of the Naive Fools."
-- from a posting above
That book deserves to be reprinted at once, in different national editions -- for it must be translated into English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, and a dozen other languages. It deserves a foreword, or perhaps two, by Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. It deserves a gigantic publicity campaign, and distribution all over Washington and the other capitals of the West. And let the author go on a Book Tour, and let him be interviewed everywhere. And if he can't be found, or prefers (for obvious reasons) not to, then let Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and any number of articulate apostates stand in for Mohammed Rasoel.
And if no existing publishing house will dare to publish the book? Then set up a brand-new publishing house, just to publish that, and similar books that publishers are afraid to touch.
EliasAlucard
thank you for that link - very moving (along with the original article) It would be great if this campaign got some momentum. As an atheist Christian as Orianna put it (actually I'm more of an agnostic Christian believer!) I would love to say a few prayers at the Hagia Sophia and get arrested by those Turkish brutes. Anyway I signed the petition - please everyone take a few moments to offer support.
Thank you for this article, it definitely hits home to the truth.
The west is always conceding something to Islam, yet no concessions are ever returned. It is time that both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches take a stand and shed light on the hypocrisy of the Islamic world.
Return the Agia Sophia to her rightful owners, now!
Niv
Excellent Article.
Seymour Paine: There's a very good reason why the Israelis did not rebuild the Temple when they took Jerusalem. According to Orthodox Jewish opinion (and the Israeli Rabbinate says the Reform and Conservative movements can go take a hike), only M'shiach can rebuild the Temple. The Israelis therefore respected their own tradition (adhered to by most Easterners and a sizeable portion of Westerners in the country) and, in so doing, ended up respecting someone else as well. Indeed, orthodox Jews believe that if one goes into the Temple enclosure, the danger of inadvertantly treading on the Holy of Holies is very great (there's a possibility it stood not in the center of the enclosure, but a bit to the north of where the Mosque of Omar now stands).
As a Christian, I feel it's a pity that so many of the Jews failed to recognize M'shiach back in the first three decades of the A.D. era; but at the same time, I can still respect their regard for their own beliefs, even when I disagree.
Beautiful post I am a fan of Bruce Thornton I read his articles regularly on Victor Hanson Davis' site. I do agree they don't make people like Notaras anymore. that day a civilization died. Its true what they say every civilization ends with a tragic hero. Let us learn from the last days of constantinople. Just years before the rift between Eastern and Western Christendom were severe. THe rift helped bring Islam into Europe. Italians along with greeks united to fight off the turks realizing what was about to happen. Notaras himself I believe said just years earlier he prefered the sultans turban to the popes mitre. I guess Christendom never thought constantinople would ever fall just like today the middle east is so weak compared to us. So we support them against Russia, russia supports them against us. China along with the US support Pakistan etc. I just hope we all realize we must join together before its too late.
“war on terror” is in fact the latest episode in the centuries-long struggle with a militant Islam.
Militant Islam?
Has not the totality of the history of Islam, in combination with the Koran and Sirat, made it clear that all of Islam is militant? Are not all Unicorns still Moslems beneath their horsehide?
Let's adopt a new duality. Let's call their two possible states:
1) Inactive Moslem
2) Active Moslem
Each operates according the same scripture, but just different sacred passages. It's called team work.
the reason turks stole constantinople was becasue muhammed told them to steal it theres verse in koran with muhammed saying it would happen
koran 13
Surely, Constantinople (Istanbul) will be conquered (by my community); how blessed the commander who will conquer it, and how blessed his army
pissed of canadian i agree with you but i doubt that will happen the problem today is that the leaders of usa and uk are to arrogant and greedy they want to bring russia down and they are building NATO bases in former soviet countrys knowing that russia doest like it and they constantly critising russia on its human rights abuses its funny though i never heard the usa or uk critise turkey for its human rights abuses the usa should stop antaganizing russia maybe thats why russia is helping iran?
also the usa has to leave N korea alone at the end of the day N korea is not threatening to take over the world and impose islam to keep on threatening n korea with sanctions is a big mistake n korea will be so poor in the end it might end up selling its nuclear weapons to alquieda the usa should befreind n korea and not impose sactions and it should leave russia alone and stop interfering and get this stupid idea out of there head that they are the biggest superpower and no one can bring them down and that n korea nd russia are a threat if that doest happen then islam will become a superpower and we will all be dhmimmis or dead
americaningermany quoted
"We need to STOP feeding our ENEMIES!! We need to make new friends among those who have similar ideals.
And we need to let go of those who mean us harm.. that means us Germans and French especially need to let go of the Pals and the Bosnians. And the turks.
None of them mean us anything good!!!
We must open up to the Serbs and ask them to forgive us for following Bill Clinton into that studid abuse of Nato power against Serbia who were lterally cleaning up at Europe's doorstep and HOW did we thank them for it?!
Noone advocates war and mayhem but this is something that the moslems forced on the Serbs and they have the Right to defend themselves. Albania is an abomination within Europe and must go the way of islamic Andalucia."
your right americaningermany thats the point i am trying to make on here the west need to lose bosnia and turkey and saudis and russia needs to lose iran and arabs
and albania and bosnia are also a gateway for muslims into europe the reason why bin laden was so desperate for bosnia to become muslim was becuase its stragetic from there for muslism to go and attack rome and the rest of europe and dont make a mistake of thinking that bosnians and turks are secular infact the most dangerous muslims are the secular ones becuase they pretend to be secular so the west can welcome them into europe but once they become the majority from over breeding will they still be secular or will they say we are the majority in europe it belongs to muslims?
when he thinks "Palestine"
When you think Palestine you have destroyed Jordan.......
The Dutch, like the British, like the Americans, like the Swedes lost their driving force when they diluted their Protestantism
I would never claim to be well-educated on the topics discussed in this article, but I was stunned by its title because 3 days ago, as I went about my daily chores, I hit upon the identical idea.
The non-Muslim world--east & west--might do well to begin a monumental campaign to recover this historic architectural and religious treasure to its proper status as a beacon to Christendom.
Restoring Hagia Sophia could become a lightning-rod for the mobilization of the dissipated and confused "infidels" of the US and Europe; to wake them up and give them a point of light to focus upon. It could be done in a semi-secular light: the church as not just a Christian edifice, but a historical and high-profile symbol of the freedom to worship, and indeed freedom itself.
A movement to regain this magnificent church, to ask the "moderate" muslims of the world to hand it peacefully back to us as a sign of their honesty, or to reveal themselves as false if they will not do so, MIGHT DO MUCH TOWARD EDUCATING US ALL ~~
While he's at it, this pope should demand that the Muslims return the territory that is today known as "Turkey" and return it to Greece (which it once was).
But of course neither demand is going to be fulfilled soon.
Kepha,
Regarding the Temple Mount:
After its capture in 1967, the Israeli Army Chief Rabbi, Shlomo Goren, asked the Army to dynamite the Dome of the Rock, but the generals turned him down. This was probably to protect the position of Jordan's King Hussein, who was officially guardian of the mosques on the Mount. Hussein had entered the war with some reluctance and was being threatened at home by his own "Palestinians" (which would culminate in 1970's "Black September").
Goren's position turned out to be a minority one, and as you note, Israel's Chief Rabbinate declared that Jews should not set foot on the Mount. Rabbi Goren himself changed his view later in 1967. The rabbis' main fear was of inadvertently stepping into the site of the Holy of Holies, where only the Kohen Gadol (High Priest) was allowed, and even he only after purifying himself by washing and putting on special vestments.
After the war, the decision was made to turn control of the Mount over to the Islamic Wakf (trust). The Wakf has since repaid this kindness by periodically encouraging worshippers to throw stones down on the Jews praying at the base of the Western Wall of the compound (not the wall of the Temple, which is long gone), which is about 30 feet below the level of the mosques.
In 2000 the Wakf began a massive underground expansion of the Al Aqsa Mosque, and in so doing dumped many tons of debris down the southern side of the Mount, probably including any remnants of the Temples. This has to be one of the greatest archaeological crimes in history, amazingly unapposed by any action of the Israeli government.
By all rights, when Israel recaptured Jerusalem from Jordan –– in a defensive war Israel did not want, a war Israel literally begged Jordan to stay out of –– Israel could have razed the Aqsa mosque and rebuilt the temple on the site it had stood on for centuries before Islam even existed.
Hey, it's not too late.
I think that Israel should destroy that abominable building and restore the temple to they way Solomon built it.
They only way to put islam back in its rightful place (the sewer) is to show these people that we, like them, will no longer settle for 2nd class status (or even equality).
I think the Israelis should treat the dome of the rock as the muslims would if they captured it from another religion. Either convert it to a synagogue or they should put farm animals in it before converting it to either a nightclub or bordello.
a powerful and well-written article, thanks for sharing it.