Wishing “Merry Xmas” is HARAAM for the Muslim

They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

but being a lecherous illiterate Big Mo did not know that Mary was NOT part of The Holy Trinity and being a bit fixated on women he did not properly comprehend.

I remain completely bemused by the arrogant ignorance of Muslims with respect to Christian Theology

I do hereby declare foreign aid to Muslim countries haraam!!

Ban Muslim Immigration now.

Nitpicking at its very worse.

Voyager,

What suprises me more is that the Koran would say more things about Mary the mother of Jesus, giving her special honor, yet treat Jesus her beloved son as simply a prophet. That is strange.

Expect Naseem to show up with her pseudo-profound questions about why Christianity needs a "holy ghost", why this, why that, blah blah blah.

The Trinity is meant to be a freakin' mystery, you Muslim retards! If it could be completely explained by human means, it wouldn't be meaningful as a mystery. I'm an agnostic and even I get that. Believe in Allah if you want, but please get off your high horse with the "last prophet" and "only true monotheism" crap. The stuff Allah allegedly "reveals" in the Koran is, as someone else put it on this website, "about as profound as a set of truck-driving instructions", whereas Christian theology reaches a lot deeper, as does Greek philosophy. In fact, both Christian theology and Greek philosophy make Islam look like an autistic child trying to keep up with the smart people at a MENSA conference, and, in the end, amounts to "believe this or else". Wow, how is that different from every other form of paganism that existed prior to Islam, all of which also amounted to "believe this or else"?

yet treat Jesus her beloved son as simply a prophet. That is strange.

Not at all. If the Koran is the book that introduced Big Mo as God's chosen one he could hardly have anyone claiming to be Son of God, so he has to declare him a lesser prophet - and claim that the Christians made errors in writing their Bible.

Islam is about the Greater Glory of Big Mo and nothing else.............

Well I'm glad it's haram for them to even say "Merry Christmas". Who'd want to hear someone spit that out anyway when you know how they feel about the whole thing?

"In Christian theology, it is believed that Jesus is GOD and that he is of one in a Trinity, along with God and the Holy Spirit."

Please show me WHERE in the Bible this is stated. I've scoured several versions trying to find this. Most all the scripture states that Jesus was the son of God and the Christ. Big differance there! The Holy Spirit is PART of God, but one can't recieve the Holy Spirit without having a relationship with Jesus. Try reading Acts and the Gospel of John.

No wonder muslims beleive Christians worship multiple Gods...It also doesn't help that they are not allowed to read the Bible for themselves.

Muslims make it up as they go along or as they
are told to , this was obvious in the matter with the veiled school assistant in Britain.
A local shop here run by a muslim family are
quite happy to store and sell copious amounts of
alcohol to anyone.
There is a plaque of the the Kaaba on the wall
complete with it`s own little curtain , next to
a calender depicting a mosque.
Some consistency PLEASE !

"The Qur'an exhorts the Christians to cease and desist in this erroneous belief"

Islamics: I do NOT care what yur koran or you say. I just DON"T care. If I want to believe that a rock or a tree or the Earth is God - If I want to believe in 10,000 Gods, that's my right and my business. JUST leave everybody else alone. Just worry about your:

1-paying your mortgage or rent
2-your job
3-getting food on the table
4- your family and yourself.

JUST leave others alone. You, Islamics, HAVE to start respecting other people and their rights.

JUST leave others alone. You, Islamics, HAVE to start respecting other people and their rights.

Posted by: allat at December 19, 2006 10:38 AM

They can't help it-they want to save us all from ourselves. The world belongs to them and their god (so they believe)-it's their duty to save us. Or kill us in trying. Isn't it heartwarming to know that they care so much for our wellbeing?

Dear Mr. Spencer,
Today I received the following. Thought you and the JW's should know.
Mr. Fitzgerald will be amused.

jhl952

FROM THE DESK OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL,
MUSLIM EMPOWERNMENT PROGRAMME,
MUSLIM FAITH FOUNDATION
HARLEY STREET
LONDON W1G 9QR
E-MAIL: muslim_award@yahoo.com
OUR REF: NMS/P/LU/02/06
YOUR REF:.............
TEL:+447031916857

DEAR SINGH,

ASALAAM ALAIKUM

YOU HAVE BEEN LUCKY TO HAVE WON A MUSLIM EMPOWERMENT
AWARD TO MAKE YOU ONE OF THE VERY FEW SLECTED BENEFICIARIES OF OUR
YEARLY

AWARD DISTRIBUTION ALL OVER THE WORLD. THIS IS BASED ON ELECTRONIC
SELECTION

OF WORLD PEOPLES EMAIL ADDRESSES OF MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD AND YOU WERE
PICKED

AS ONE OF THE VERY FEW LUCKY WINNERS.THE AIM IS TO INCREASE THE NUMBER
OF

MUSLIM
EMPOWERED ONES THE WORLD OVER

THIS AWARD IS VALUED AT CASH PRIZE OF ONE MILLION,FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND
BRITISH POUNDS (1.5M BRITISH POUNDS)

IF YOU ARE TAKING THIS CASH PRIZE AWARD,YOU MUST
SHOW STRONG INDICATION TO USE THE FUND TO PROMOTE MASS EDUCATION OF
MUSLIMS

WITHIN YOUR LOCALITY,AS WELL AS HELP LIBERATE OTHER MUSLIMS FROM THE
SHACKLES OF POVERTY.

CERTAIN EVENTS OCCURRING IN THE WORLD TODAY,LIKE THE
CARTOON CONTROVERSY IN DENMARK,AND OTHERS, HAVE MADE IT IMPERATIVE FOR
THE

MUSLIM COMMUNITY TO EFFECT AN INCREASED MOBILISATION/EDUCATION OF OUR
PEOPLE,HENCE THE NEED FOR THIS PROGRAMME.

THIS PROGRAMME IS WIDELY SPONSORED UNDER THE
AUSPICES OF MUSLIM FAITH FOUNDATION, BY MUSLIM
PROFESSIONALS,BUSINESSMEN,CORPORATE BODIES,AND
NUMEROUS MUSLIM NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANISATIONS,ETC.

IF WE REACH YOU SUCCESSFULLY, GET BACK TO US SO THAT
WE CAN DETAIL YOU ON THE PROCEDURES.

SEND YOUR RESPONSE TO muslim_award@yahoo.com

MAY ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL BE WITH YOU AS YOU ARE
LUCKILY CHOSEN IN THE
CRUSADE.

CONGRATULATIONS!

MR MOHAMMED GAMBO.
(SECRETARY GENERAL)

NOTE:IF AFTER 2 DAYS OF RESPONDING,AND YOU DONT FROM
US,RESEND YOUR RESPONSE TO muslim_award@yahoo.com

Well MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone on this site, especially to the Muslim trolls that visit this site.

Niv

jhl952, its a nigerian scam

bigcatgirl13106,

Muslim nitpicking has some competition:

"Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

We also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great.

Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than neither any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere .  Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. 

By accepting these greetings, you are accepting the aforementioned terms as stated.  This greeting is not subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting.  It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself/himself/others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.  This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher."

The Democrat National Commitee
December 19, 2006

They can't help it-they want to save us all from ourselves. The world belongs to them and their god (so they believe)-it's their duty to save us.

That's where you are wrong. They have no duty to evangelize us, just offer allah...then out pops the sword.

....they believe we are filthy, the worst of all creation.
I do not remember where I read that Christians are relegated to the deepest, worst neighborhood in islamic hell...I think it was Unveiling Islam, Christians are worse than Jews as far as enemies of islam .

Merry Christmas to all JW's

Here is an exerpt from Archbishop Fulton Sheen's book 'The World's First Love, A Moving Portrayal of the Virgin Mary' published in 1996

"Moslemism is the only great post-Christian religion of the world. Because it had it's origin in the 7th century under Mohammed, it was possible to unite within it some elements of Christianity and Judaism, along with particular customs of Arabia. Moslemism takes the doctrine of the unity of God, His Majesty and His Creative Power, and uses it, in part, as a basis for the repudiation of Christ, The Son of God. Misunderstanding the notion of the Trinity, Mohammed made Christ a prophet, announcing him, just as, to Christians, Isaias and John the Baptist are prophets announcing Christ.

The Christian European West barely escaped destruction at the hands of Moslems. at one point they were stopped near Tours and at another point, later on in time, outside the gates of Vienna. The Church throughout northern Africa was practically destroyed by Moslem power, and at the present hour, the Moslems are beginning to rise again.

If Moslemism is heresy, as Hilaire Belloc believes it to be, it is the only heresy that hes never declined. Others have had a moment of vigor, then gone into doctrinal decay at the death of the leader, and finally evaporated in the vague social movement. Moslemism, on the contrary, has only had its first phase. There was never a time in which it declined, either in numbers, or in the devotion of its followers.

The missionary effort of the Church toward this group has been, at least on the surface, a failure, for the Moslems are so far almost unconvertible. The reason is that for a follower of Mohammed to become a Christian is much like a Christian becoming a Jew. The Moslems believe that they have the final and definative revelation of God to the world and that Christ was only a prophet announcing Mohammed, the last of God's real prophets.

At the present time, the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming a hatred against Christianity itself. Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return, and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm iself as a great anti-Christian world power. Moslem writers say, "When the locust swarms darken vast countries, they bear on their wings these Arabic words:'We are God's host, each of us has ninety-nine eggs, andd if we had a hundred, we should lay waste the world with all that is in it."

The problem is, How shall we prevent the hatching of the hundredth egg? It is our firm belief that the fears soome entertain concerning the Moslems are not to be realized, but that Moslem, instead, will eventually be converted to Christianity-and in a way that even some of our missionaries never suspect. It is our belief that this will happen not through the direct teaching of Christianity, but through a summoning of the Moslems to a verneration of the Mother of God."

****************************************************************

Archbishop Sheen goes on to compare the Bible's and the koran's treatment of Mary, and the special place in islam for Mary ( although the average muslim mind misses the irony of the Mary being the only woman in islam with holy status, but her Son is "just a prophet" whereas for muhammed's mom, nada.)He also delves into the mysterious workings of God in regards to of Mary being Our Lady of Fatima revealing herself in Portugal, that muhammed's daughter also bore this name, and that the last muslim leader occupying Portugal had a daughhter named Fatima. The leader's daughter Fatima fell in love with a Catholic boy in Portugal, converted and stayed behind when the muslims left. Her husband renamed the town Fatima, the place where Mary would appear in 1917, thus establishing a way for muslims to come to Christ through the connection to Mary.

Christmas is such a season for hope and I, for one, hope and pray, this is the way God plans for islam to end.

Wow, read some of this crap, especially the comparison between Jesus and muhammad, there are lies and damned lies
http://www.answering-islam.com/jesus_in_islam.htm

Rupert Murdoch is usually referred to as a right wing Christian but it was mentioned on the news that his UK Sky TV staff Christmas party was to be renamed as the winter festival party after complaints from two of their several thousand personnel,
Even more creepily - because a filmed version of Terry Pratchett's 'Hogfather' has been one of their centre piece productions this Xmas, they have altered the short 'merry christmas' clips which commercial channels usully insert among the ads. Sky viewers are currently being treated to a clip of a boar fanged Father Christmas-type figure driving a sleigh pulled by two boars and are wished a 'Merry Hogwatch.'!

Sky viewers are currently being treated to a clip of a boar fanged Father Christmas-type figure driving a sleigh pulled by two boars and are wished a 'Merry Hogwatch.'!
WTF?

To never_submit & anyone else re. the Trinity.

I am not submitting this info to debate with you whether or not the Bible says there is a Trinity or whether or not anyone should believe in it.

Here is what some Protestant churches teach about the Trinity. This is what many Protestants believe.

I hope the following helps to explain what some Christians believe about the Holy Trinity.

I remember two lines from a hymn we sang in church: "Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty! God in Three Persons, blessed Trinity!"

---------

http://www.presbyterian.ca/
Presbyterian Church in Canada

To say this is to say that Reformed confessions are trinitarian. While only two verses in
the entire Bible, Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:13 are trinitarian in character, the
pattern of divine action; namely, that the Father is revealed in the Son through the Holy
Spirit, is frequently witnessed to by the New Testament writers. This combined witness led the church, during the trinitarian controversies of the fourth and fifth centuries, to formulate the main elements of the doctrine of the Trinity. This teaching affirms that the one and only God is eternally Father, Son and Holy Spirit, equal in power and glory. Reformed theology not only appropriated the doctrine of the Trinity but also made it central in its confessions and catechisms.

[There are footnotes in the original.]

http://www.presbyterian.ca/documents/westminsterconfession.html
The Westminster Confession of Faith - (1646)
The Westminster Confession of Faith, was adopted by the General Assembly in 1875 as the subordinate standard of this Church as noted in the Book of Forms...
[See the whole thing.]

http://www.fmc-canada.org/
The Free Methodist Church in Canada

http://www.fmc-canada.org/who/articles-God.html

I. The Holy Trinity
There is but one living and true God, the maker and preserver of all things. In the unity of this Godhead there are three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are one in eternity, deity, and purpose; everlasting, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness.

(Genesis 1:1-2; Exodus 3:13-15; Deuteronomy 6:4; Matthew 28:19; John 1:1-3; 5:19-23; 14:9-11; 16:13-15; 2 Cor3:14)

http://www.paoc.org/
Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
STATEMENT OF FUNDAMENTAL AND ESSENTIAL TRUTHS

II. THE GODHEAD
The Godhead exists eternally in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are one God, having the same nature and attributes and are worthy of the same homage, confidence, and obedience.

1. THE FATHER
The Father exists eternally as the Creator of heaven and earth, the Giver of the Law, to whom all things will be subjected, so that He may be all in all.

2. THE SON
The Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal and only begotten Son of the Father, is true God and true man. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and by His sinless life, miracles and teaching, gave full revelation of the Father.

He died upon the cross, the Just for the unjust, as a substitutionary sacrifice. He rose from the dead. He is now at the right hand of the majesty on high as our great High Priest. He will come again to establish His kingdom in righteousness and peace.

3. THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is also God, performing actions and possessing the attributes of Deity. His personality is shown by the fact that He has personal characteristics and that individuals may relate to Him as a person.

[There are footnotes in the original.]

http://www.anglican.ca/index.htm
Anglican Church of Canada

http://www.anglican.ca/faith/identity/39articles.htm
The 39 Articles of Religion of the Anglican Church of Canada from the Book of Common Prayer, 1959 p698-714.

I. Of Faith in the Holy Trinity.

There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the Maker, and Preserver of all things both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power and eternity; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

---------

Even though I do not understand the Trinity completely, I do know for a FACT that it is NOT three gods, but 3 dimensions of one God, in the form of God the Father (the invisible), the Son (Jesus - God in the form of man), and the Holy Spirit (this one is harder for me to define - but I get the idea that it is God acting through us).

The Koran tells an outright lie about the Trinity and even it's "less" hateful verses are fraudulent.

If Jesus knew of how the Koran distorted him (and I have a gut feeling that he even knows it now), he would label the Koran's view of him as NOTHING SHORT OF BLASPHEMOUS. And ANY truebelieving Christian should know that the Koran's view of Jesus is nothing short of antichrist and that therefore there is no such THING as this ridiculous dialogue between the 2 faiths. The Muslim and Christian view of Jesus is different and therefore there is NO reconciliation between the 2 faiths. END OF STORY.

"The Muslim and Christian view of Jesus is different and therefore there is NO reconciliation between the 2 faiths. END OF STORY."
Posted by: RaggedyAnn

I agree.

Today, the vaguely Arabic gentleman at the gas station (the station has been owned by a different vaguely Arabic gentleman for over 30 years) spontaneously wished me Merry Christmas. Not happy holidays, Merry Christmas.

Either they are Christians, or they feel they have to appease the locals.

Surprising, either way.

Sorry if I seemed like I was yelling or anything, but this stuff agitates me so much.

It's just that Jesus came on this earth not to be a prophet of Islam, but to say that no one comes to the Father except through Him, and that is a very bold declaration. Jesus would not approve of any false prophet who tried to portray Jesus as merely a prophet and not the Son of God.

And I am positive that Muhammad is one of the false prophets warned of in the Bible, and I am certain that he is one of those false people that Jesus said would say he is the "Christ" but isn't.

Raggety Ann and Josephine,

Thanks for the rebuttals. The whole issue of how the Trinity is to be understood has been and will be argued about for a long time. But one thing that we can all agree on is that the fanatical followers of Islam will never GET THE POINT of Jesus' purpose on this earth. They are brainwashed to beleive that we worship the cross when all we see in the cross is a reminder of what Jesus did for us. They have no concept of overcoming the world or spiritual love or selfless giving. Islam is a religion without a heart, empty, vengefull, and full of hate. It is so sad because there are so many Muslims who would turn from this emptiness if given the chance. Yet, I dare say I cannot imagine one ever wishing me a Merry Christmas.

"But one thing that we can all agree on is that the fanatical followers of Islam will never GET THE POINT of Jesus' purpose on this earth. They are brainwashed to beleive that we worship the cross when all we see in the cross is a reminder of what Jesus did for us." Posted by: never_submit

I agree. I'm not interested in debating the differences between Christians because I'm more interested in what we have in common and how that differs from the teachings of Islam.

Just in case I forget or I'm out, Merry Christmas
everyone! And a Happy New Year too! And for my
coreligionists, Chag Sameach.

P.S.: Lots of religious people of all stripes
wind themselves in knots over this kind of
arcana, "should I wish some person of another
religion a happy XXX day"? This is the lowest
aspect of "religion". Of course you should! I
wish Hindus around me a good Diwali and I mean it; any kind of "God" that would have it any other way would not be fit for worship!

I couldn't care less whether Mohammedans wish me a Merry Xmas or not. They can all take a collective flying f*** at a rolling doughnut.

What I DO hate is receiving cards (as I did today, and NOT from a Mohammedan) that wish me 'Seasons Greetings' and, on the inside, 'Happy Holidays'.

The season is Christmas, so say so! And if it offends a primitive, barbaric Mohammedan, then all the better!

A pox on the Winter Festivals, Festive Seasons, Happy Holidays and all similar dhimmitudes, AND the dhimmis who use them!

Regarding the status of Mary, mother of Jesus, I would like to point out that when a Jew converts to Sunni Islam he or she makes the standard shehada (public declaration of faith), but when a Jew converts to Shia Islam he or she is required to add an extra statement within the shehada that (the Prophet) Jesus is born of the Virgin Mary. I am unclear what the Shia response would be if a Jew made the shehada without this additional claim. This isn't something required by anything in the Qu'ran so I conjecture it is designed to deter Jews from converting to Shia Islam. I don't have a copy of the Qu'ran to hand but I am sure there is a sura in which Mohammed claims that Jews worship Ezra as equal to G-d. As a practising Jew I know this claim is unmitigated nonsense. Without wishing to go too far off topic there is an esoteric Muslim sect I have heard of whose members have a 'secret' doctrine of the trinity - one composed of Mohammed, Ali and Fatima - although I don't know if these are endowed with special attributes in this strange trinitarian framework. To poster Aardvark above, who says this is the Christmas season and no other seasonal greetings will do, could I respectfully point out that for me it isn't the Christmas season - to me and my family it's Hannukah and Hannukah is rather older than Christmas.

Xmas was origionally a Christian abbreviation. In Greek, Christ is spelled XPICTOC (Chi Rho Iota Sigma Tau Omicron Sigma). Back when books were all written by hand, hundreds of such abbreviations were common.

Interesting David, thanks. I remember seeing the X substituted for Christ way back 40 years or more. I had little interest in God at the time, and assumed this X was used to save space or by a lazy individual, writing Christmas this way myself. Then, to me, its use seemed to be a snub to believers, shorthand of an antagionist. Now I firmly believe its used by non Christians as a weapon, a grudging acknowledgement of the prhases existence and, in my little black and white world, a nasty, arrogant way to feel superior about ones self, not being one of those God believing stooges.

While im pontificating, my humble view of all religion, Christian, Muslim, et al., is that a single factual test is all thats required to seperate them: Either theres absolutely nothing you can do by yourself to please God or thru one system or another, everything you do is kept on a ledger of some sort, awaiting Gods determination of whether your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds (fill in the blank)...if the latter is true, then I believe Jesus did not have to die.

Islam, it seems to me, is comprised of an endless set of rules, proscriptions, preclusions, as well as endless determinations submitted by a wide and varying array of clerics. Confusing to say the least. Frustration seems to be the end result, violence towards ones self and others commonplace and no end in sight. There but for the grace of God...

i'm wondering if anyone knows what arabic word the koran uses for "trinity"?

Quoted from "S"

-------------
Today, the vaguely Arabic gentleman at the gas station (the station has been owned by a different vaguely Arabic gentleman for over 30 years) spontaneously wished me Merry Christmas. Not happy holidays, Merry Christmas.

Either they are Christians, or they feel they have to appease the locals.

Surprising, either way.
-------------

There are many ethnically Arabic people who are Christians living in the US. Many of them are from Lebannon and fled here after the Syrian occupation.

Merry Christmas Jihad Watchers!

If listening to 5th century Christian hymn music makes your head spin then do NOT click this link,

http://cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/f/ofthefat.htm

Personally, I love the old hymn tunes.

By all means wish them a Merry Christmas!

Mike W,

So cool! I love that stuff. If you have any good Gregorian chant, bring it on over!!

This morning I took a walk to clear the cobwebs and wished everyone I met a Merry Christmas. The first couple I came upon walking the other way looked to be from India or Bangladesh but weren't Muslims. When I said Merry Christmas to them they lit up and wished it right back. Next I came upon two older guys and we had a nice rapport. Next came a middle aged couple that looked to be from India. They eyed me warily until I got close enough to speak and when I wished them Merry Christmas they didn't say it back but were all smiles and I could tell they were wishing me well. I think they didn't speak English very well and didn't quite get what I was saying. But I said it in a way that they new I meant them well and it made them happy.

We need to eradicate Islam from our lands if for no other reason than that we can never lose our right to wish one another a Merry Christmas, which has the power to change peoples' lives, let alone their day. The words are very powerful, especially since Christ's name is invoked. We should bottle it and sell it.

Also, I think it's a riot when the Muslim psychos like the blind sheik and I'm-a-dinner-head say it because they don't understand how powerful those words are. They seek to destroy us but they utter a blessing upon us. Oh well, no one ever accused Islam of producing a lot of brain surgeons, if you know what I mean. ; )

Personally, I love the old hymn tunes.

Posted by: Mike_W at December 19, 2006 11:06 PM

Me too!

One more entry for Hugh's proposed game.

I hereby declare 'Id mubarak' and 'Ramadan mubarak' verboten to all Infidels.

I dont know for the others, but even as I am an orthodox christian (more likely (christian) agnostic), I dont care about theologians mambo jumbo about who emanating from whom, or is Christ a God,demigog,superman,half man-half God or something just more than a man. But I do "belive" in unholy threenity of satan,muhammad and islam. They are quite realistic to me.

You know, I find it nearly amusing that Mohammed had to sink so low as to attack Christianity by attacking the Trinity. Had Mohammed been literate, he would have realized that Christians do not worship three Gods, but ONE God who exists in three forms.

The key point is that the Judeo-Christian God's name is 'Yahweh' which means 'I am' Therefore, the trinity is made possible because God is the 'father' in the sense that s/he is the creator of all the physical universe and therefore indirectly the creator of mankind (who evolved due to those physical laws), the 'Holy Spirit' sometimes called Holy Ghost, because God is essentially spiritual (and it is this spiritual manner in which we were 'created in God's image'), and Jesus became the 'son' when he recieved Holy Spirit at his baptism and began his mission. Essentially God can be considered all as the trinity in this sense within the confines of the Biblical scriptures.

Mohammed had a very strange misconception of what the Christian faith was actually all about, and he spread that misconception to other Muslims, who wrote down his misunderstandings in the Koran over a century after his death.

the 'Holy Spirit' sometimes called Holy Ghost,

No the other way around............. Holy Ghost is the real term but because of modern ignorance as regards the word Ghost they started using the term Spirit which is a poor substitute.

The term is Judaic רוח הקודש Ruah haqodesh

In Christianity, following the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is the One who guides a person to correctly interpret the word of God and He helps each person reach new levels of understanding.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all

and to all, I love pork.

Thanks for that Voyager, I didn't know which one was used originally.

I guess the reason they changed it was because the meanings of words change over time. These days when the word 'ghost' is mentioned, people think about haunted houses and poltergeist activity. Therefore ghost was substituted with spirit, the modern definition of spirit may be closer to the ancient definition of ghost than the modern definition of ghost. Lots of words change meanings over time... think about how other words have altered their meaning, 'sad' used to mean unhappy, but now it is primarily used to describe somebody behaving in an inappropriate way (i.e. a sad case), and 'gay' has shifted in meaning from happy to homosexual. It's just a theory, but it's an educated guess as to why they altered holy ghost to holy spirit.

Muslims make it up as they go along or as they
are told to , this was obvious in the matter with the veiled school assistant in Britain.
A local shop here run by a muslim family are
quite happy to store and sell copious amounts of
alcohol to anyone.
There is a plaque of the the Kaaba on the wall
complete with it`s own little curtain , next to
a calender depicting a mosque.
Some consistency PLEASE ! posted by Alladinsane57

I say - Ditto!! And while we are at it, I wish someone would explain the whole dress code (for women) deal to me. I see everything from full covering with only a net slit for the eyes, more 'moderate' (I can't beleieve I am using that word for this) burka's, and there is a trainer at my gym sporting gym clothes and a head scarf and then, my esthetician who wears her hair out (quite attractively styled) and dresses in regular western (not cowboy ;-0 ) attire. I don't understand how all this is acceptable under one Koran.

"good Gregorian chant"

Would the person that found these chants let me know where - so I can listen to them also. I'm looking in the stoores, and in my library and the web, but can't find any.

It's for myself. I recently learned to enjoy "Handel's Messiah."The more I hear about islam, the more I become a Jesus person, The Rabbi (means Master Teacher). 'Nuff said.

Allat

I simply say "Merry Christmas, camel-jockey" to those of the Muzzle-im faith whom I know, at this Holy time of year.

I don't know what all the fuss is about!

After all, didn't the Pope say that both islam and christianity shared the same lineage and have a lot in common.

So, let the muslims go on believing that Jesus is no God. As long as the Pope believe in that theory, who are we to argue!

(For some who may not get it, this was my feeble at sarcasm!)

Point taken, moris2. Perhaps I should have said 'The season is Christmas or Hannukah, so say so'. It's the misguided PC correctness that substitutes meaningless phrases for Christmas (and presumably for Hannukah?) to avoid any possible offence that I object to.

Aardvark,

When someone wishes me "Happy Holidays", I usually respond with a "Happy ... HOLY ... days to you, too" or "Merry Christ Mass" or "Have a Blessed Nativity" depending on my mood. That usually elicits a response.

A Muslim cab driver wished me a Merry Christmas today—

I guess he hasn't played Hugh's game yet.

Allat,

Here's a place to start for your Gregorian Chant.

http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Chant-Gregorian/dp/B000056NM8

Enjoy!

Thanks, Isabella!

And here's a Christmas Card for Senor Roberto - thank you for this website.

And for all the people here

TO LIFE!

Pilgrimage to the Cedars of Lebanon
http://keptar.demasz.hu/keptar/kep/c/csontvar/muvek/1905-07/zarandok.jpg

by Hungarian Painter, Csontváry Kosztka Tivadar (1853-1919)

The Christmas tree was never a Pagan symbol. The Ancient in the north used an Evergreen, and in the Middle East a cedar tree to symbolize the Souls journey down, from the Creator - the experience of this life, and the return to the Source.

The photo expands - when you take it from the top - it is all darkness of the Void. As you go down the painting - it becomes brighter. The couple in the foreground is the Holy Family - and the people traveling on this Path with them, perhaps watching out for each other. In the background are dancers celebrating, and perhaps they are us?

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Eat drink and be joyous and dance and sing lots!

God be with you and watch over you.

Love and Blessings,

Allat

Aadvark,

I completely agree with you about the whole PC thing. It's pathetic, seriously. The other day I went out shopping and saw some Christmas trees labelled as 'Holiday trees'. It's got nothing to do with trying to make celebrations non-denominational, as some would be lead to believe. It's been re-named PURELY because some Muslims are offended by Christmas. I'm sorry, but freedom of religion should mean freedom to call a Christmas tree a Christmas tree, and since the majoritiy of the British Public are Christians, then the trees don't have to be called 'holiday trees'.

It's yet another sign of dhimmitude, along with the halal school dinners and the like. We appear to be on a very slippery slope here.

Re Christmas TRees - holiday trees

Surely, if one sees xmas trees that have been renamed to holiday trees - if one sees that and doesn't like it - then go in and complain.

Have your say - don't let it go by. Stop the car - and go it.

It's important to you. SPEAK UP-

JUST like the one person stopped and complained against. If everyone is in the majority that like "Christmas" - "steps up to the plate" -if the merchants - stores and officials realize they're going to lose business - they're going to change back to the way the MAJORITY of customers wants it. Same as the airport "christmas tree" thing.

One has to act. On these little things - are how the "antis" are winning.

Allat

Well, it may be haram, but some of my Muslim students have wished me Merry Christmas--and I am a Puritan Christian who doesn't celebrate it! Still, I take it as a desire to be sociable and respectful towards the host culture folks. There are also some Muslims who, I suspect, are in the USA because they have had it with the radicals back home. For these people's sakes, I would pray that the Christian witness they get is one that is loving, respectful, AND challenging.

Well, Josephine, you beat me to the punch on answering s.

Truthseeker, it is not One God in three forms, but one God in three persons--God is eternally a living richness internally; not a bare monad. Consider that the _echod_ (one) of Hebrew (in Dt. 6) is also the "one" of "the two shall become one flesh" (of a married couple) found in Genesis 2:24. Hence, a little linguistic knowledge clears up the questions of logic.

Further, Jesus himself forgave sins, sparking the furor of the Pharisees (Mark 2:1-12).

In John, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8:58)--as grammatically troublesome in Greek as in English. But this is clearly to echo the words of YHWH to Moses in the burning bush (Exodus 3:14).

The Letter to the Hebrews applies verses of Psalms addressed to YHWH to Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:8-10,11; cf. Psalm 102:25-27).

Acts 5 teaches that the Holy Spirit is personal, and one to whom the sinful lie.

Muhammad's mistake was that he saw the Christian Trinity as God, Jesus, and Mary; not the Father, Son, and Spirit (one reason why I believe that the Qu'ran is of men, if not of the devil, but definitely not of God).

I am a white Muslim revert and used to be a Christian until Allah guided me to the straight path.

I want to point out that Islam does not forbid anyone to celebrate their religious festivals. This is usually a misunderstanding caused by lack of knowledge or pure ignorance.

Allah states in the Quran: "let there be no compulsion in religion" This includes Muslims as well as non-Muslims alike and as such, we can not force people not to celebrate their special days and people should not force us not to celebrate ours.

Islam is a religion of tolerance and and peace, in fact Islam itself comes from the root word slm, as does salam, which means peace.

One thing I do wish to point out however, is that a poster (never_submit) stated that the Christian doctrine does not promote a trinitarian GOD.

He or she then stated that this is not in the bible itself. Well, Alhamdulillah, this is what we as Muslims believe, that Jesus and the bible does not deliver a trinitarian message but a message of monotheism, however if you go to almost any denomination of Christianity today, you will find that this belief is there just as a belief that Jesus is in fact GOD.

This is also something Islam believes is man made fabrication, as even Jesus himself never once stated that he was GOD or that we were to worship him. How ever we do not have any right to try and change peoples mind, except through beautiful speech and arguing in the best of ways, trying to guide with wisdom and peace.

Jesus simply came to deliver a message to the lost sheep of Israel, and this comes from his own mouth. "No-one comes to the father except through me" This means, in context that Jesus was the example for the lost sheep of Israel to return to the religion of GOD, nothing more, however man takes this out if context and states that this message is for all mankind, but Jesus himself doesn't say this, he states "
I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24)

This is plain English, Jesus was the example for lost Jews to return to the truth, but some then state that Jesus was for the whole of mankind. In fact Jesus never states this about himself, as I have posted, nor about his message: "Do not go among the Gentiles, or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel" (Matthew 10:5-6)

I also want to point out that Muslims ARE allowed to read the bible, and any other book as it is a compulsory action for every Muslim to seek knowledge.

May the truth, wisdom and light of the one and only God of all creation shine in to the deepest parts of your heart and guide you to the truth.

I see nowhere in the Quran or Hadith that states that wishing merry Christmas, or a happy Christmas or happy new year is haram.

Of course we as Muslims do not celebrate it but as my non-muslim friend had the courtesy to wish me a happy EID, this was a sign that although we do not share the same religious beliefs, we do share humanity.

The Quran teaches: "come to common terms between us and them" and this common term includes being kind and compassionate, wishing each other peace, happyness and wisdom, and I wish that upon all who are reading here. May you have a happy festive period and enjoy the time with your family.

Building barriers is the haram and does more bad than good, let us as Muslims accept our Christian brothers with open arms, and although we do not share ALL the same beliefs, we do share the same creator and as such, let us have perfect moral standards and be kind and merciful, just as Allah is.