An update on this story. "Suspected Terror Leader Abu Bakar Bashir Threatens 'Jihad' Against Indonesian Police," from Associated Press:
JAKARTA, Indonesia — An alleged Southeast Asian terror leader threatened to call for holy war against Indonesian police Thursday, days after an anti-terror squad shot dead 15 suspected Islamic extremists.
Abu Bakar Bashir, accused by Australia and the United States of being a key figure in the Al Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiyah, said Muslims should stop serving in the police's anti-terror squad on Indonesia's conflict-ridden Sulawesi island.
"If Muslims are being killed, then we must fight back," the 69-year-old cleric told around 100 hard-liners outside the National Human Rights Commission in the capital, Jakarta, where they were protesting Monday's killings.
"If necessary, we must organize a jihad," he said.
Police say they shot the 15 men Monday after coming under attack as they entered a militant stronghold in Poso, a flash-point town on Sulawesi. They recovered large numbers of guns, bombs and ammunition.
Islamic groups and politicians have criticized police following the raid.
However, Indonesia's vice president, other government officials and most of the media in the world's most populous Muslim nation have supported the operation.
"There is an attempt in Poso to eliminate the Muslims so the unbelievers will control the town," Bashir said. "I curse the actions of (the anti-terror squad) Densus 88 for killing Muslims and helping the unbelievers."
The International Crisis Group think tank said Wednesday that the operation appeared to be justified, but warned that it could backfire by inflaming Islamic terrorists on Sulawesi and elsewhere in Indonesia.
Six years ago, Sulawesi was the scene of bloody battles between Muslim and Christian gangs that left about 1,000 people dead and attracted Islamic militants from all over Indonesia.
Over the past two years, Islamic extremists — some believed to Jemaah Islamiyah members — have carried out a series of shootings, beheadings and bombings against Christian men, women and children.
Bashir was released from jail last year after serving 26 months behind bars for conspiracy in the deadly 2002 Bali bombings. In December, the Supreme Court overturned the conviction and ordered that his name be cleared.
Bashir, who founded a boarding school attended by some of Indonesia's most notorious terrorists, has always denied any wrongdoing. Since his release from jail, he has continued preaching a hard-line, intolerant brand of Islam, but has consistently condemned terrorism.
Is it possible to institute a "Submit a Question" column?
I would like to know what kind of islam is practiced in the most populous islamic nation?
Borg:
To answer your question, the Violent kind. My good friend and co-worker had to flee Indonesia because she is both of the two things Indonesian Muslims hate. Christian and Chinese. She told me during the 1998 May riots, they would loot the Chinese shops, rape the woman 7 up to 7 men at time, mutilate their victims by stuff broken glass in the vaginal canal, kill the men and children all while shouting "Allahu Akbar". Under Gods grace she was granted a visa. and her and her family are now residing in the States. Thank to you Jesus.
Indonesia, a moderate Islamic country? NOT!
Bashir:"If Muslims are being killed, then we must fight back,"
"If necessary, we must organize a jihad,"
Ah yes, the obligatory call for Jihad. The biggest problem with Islamists is what constitutes a necessity in their twisted minds.
Article:"Over the past two years, Islamic extremists — some believed to Jemaah Islamiyah members — have carried out a series of shootings, beheadings and bombings against Christian men, women and children."
Some more examples of the righteous "fighting back".
Article: "Bashir was released from jail last year after serving 26 months behind bars for conspiracy in the deadly 2002 Bali bombings."
"Bashir, who founded a boarding school attended by some of Indonesia's most notorious terrorists, has always denied any wrongdoing. Since his release from jail, he has continued preaching a hard-line, intolerant brand of Islam, but has consistently condemned terrorism."
Indeed. 26 months to work on his Tiqyya. I'm sure he still denies any wrongdoing that led to his incarceration, the poor, misunderstood bastard.
Wow
The islamic clerics seem to want to jihad at any and every reason.
I would not be surprised if during a soccer match if some Islamic player in tripped during course of normal play, he would get up and shout " I declare jihad he tripped because I am Muslim, This game is war on Islam- Jihad -Jihad -Jihad"
Seems they just are on the look out for reasons.
Why cant they once stand up and preach peace to their so called handful of vioplent Muslims because as it is they say only handful are violent and kill, rest are moderates.
But for some strange reason, the moderates semm to loose their voice when it comes to criticising their own. But when it comes to criticising Non-muslim policy as they see it ,they will come out in thousands.
Yet another infernal "holy" war. When was the last time these maniacs declared a war without "holy" preceding it? No wonder rational people fear and despise Islam-all wars fuelled by it are always "holy". But then again, the Koran said it and it's the book that covers everything.
Islam says from hours 6 to 10,
you must be killing people again.
Here's Omar, he came from afar!
just to kill some people again.
And uncle Ali, from bombing Bali!
loves to kill people again.
And Osama Bin Laden, scraggy and sodden!
fatwa'd to kill people again !
gotta kill,gotta kill,
gotta kill,gotta kill,
That's what Islam says,
from hours 6 to 10 !
Here's a link to an article in today's Jakarta Post about the situation in Poso and the JI involvement.Go to Poso article
Killing the militants will only temporarily stop the violence. Capturing but preferably killing Adnan Arsal and getting rid of his pesantren will help. Deportation of non-Sulteng residents back to Java or wherever they came from is needed. Allowing Brimob and Densus 88 to do their job, without interference by barking Muslim politicians from PKB, PAN and others, and the Islamotard Islamic Defender's Front, the MMI of Abu Bakr Ba'asyir and other terrorist organizations here is needed. Vice president Kalla knows the situation better than anybody. He was involved in the Malino accord. He also knows this situation is a lot more complicated than most people realize. Involvement of influential Islamic politicians on a national scale (not just local), military, terrorist organizations like JI, local terrorist organizations allowed to operate within Indonesia like Islamic Defenders Front, Laskar Jihad, Laskar Jundallah, Hizbut Tahrir, MMI, KOMPAK and a whole slew of others, complicate the situation. We also have all the wannabe jihadis that signed up to go to Lebanon but didn't have funding to get a passport or plane ticket to Lebanon. They are making their way to Poso from Java and Kalimantan.
This fight isn't about Christians and Muslims as Ba'asyir alludes to. He has carefully chosen his words to send foreigners monitoring Indonesia off track. This is about his and other hardliner's agenda to bring Sharia to Indonesia. They are in a battle for control of Indonesia. If the Islamists can defeat or make the government backdown in Poso then it will give them momentum to start doing this elsewhere and make their push to completely Shariasize Indonesia. They've got their foot in the door in many regencies around Indonesia with Sharia based by-laws and the next step is winning the battle in Poso and handing the government defeat. If the government loses in Poso, it will lose Indonesia to the Islamists. We here in North Sulawesi are on full Jihad Watch and I was at our neighborhood anti-Jihad meeting last night. Muslims here know they will be sent back to Gorontalo (where most Muslims here in Sulut are from and not Java like some Jihad Watch readers have suggested).
Big White Infidel in Kel.Bahu, Manado, Sulawesi Utara
"If Muslims are being killed, then we must fight back."
Yeah, and it doesn't matter what they were doing that led to them being killed. If they belong to the tribe they are beyond any other moral standard.
This muslim reasoning is just so shitty.
Violent, of course.
But what type? Sunni, shia, ahmaydi, sufi? Or something else. I am trying to show it does not matter which type of islam, they all take the same violent road when opportunity arises.
bigwhiteinfidel- Can you keep us posted.
http://www.westernresistance.com also watches the pacific situation.
" by inflaming Islamic terrorists "
.........yes, fighting back does inflame the terrorists, it is time to fight back and go on the offensive, instead of always being on the defensive....they deserve no less...
Bashir says "we" must fight. Give him a rifle. Then blow his f*****n head off.
Borg:
There is but one "kind" of Islam and ONE only!!!!
And that is the evil "kind" of Islam-- the one that routinely slaughters human beings as though they were cows or chickens!
To BigWhiteInfidel,
I realize I am somewhat late in this thread, but I was inquiring,
First off when asked on what "kind of islam" is practiced in indonesia, I would think it would be highly dependent on excactly where you are. For example, I imagine it would vary greatly from sumatra to Java to Sulawesi to the Moluccas, and even within islands, like in Jakarta vs East Java province.
I've heard that the coastal areas of west and central java, makassar sulawesi and aceh are by far the most severly islamic. Of these places, the former two are worse than the latter bacause in aceh, the loclas are at least capable of understanding that non-muslims are better friends who deserve to be tolerated more that other muslims like the Jakarta crooks, whom they often call their slavemasters. Whereas in coastal Java and Makassar, staunch muslims are often hopelessly mind-warped and desperate to be arabs in any way possible.
What's your personal take on the islamic situation? Are muslims there all equally likely to be brainwashed and despise christians, jews, israel and "zionists" despite knowing nothing about them, or is that mostly confined to the areas of coastal java and Makassar? What do muslims you've seen in sulawesi and elsewhere say regarding topics like American foreign policies, the middle east and other religions in general? Are they at least cpable of having real opinions, not those fed to them by Goebbels-eqe propagandists like Al-Jazeerah?
Thank You.
The International Crisis Group think tank said Wednesday that the operation appeared to be justified, but warned that it could backfire by inflaming Islamic terrorists on Sulawesi and elsewhere in Indonesia.
A. WHO is this "International Crisis Group"?
B. Why are only moslems inflamed when we kill them? Are WE *not* inflamed when they kill us??!! What kind of rubbish is this?!
C. Why can't we get money together and ARM the non-MoFoes in Indonesia?
Let's set up a collection and get the money to Bigwhiteinfidel who is over there already.
D. I don't understand if this Bashir is released after only 26 months.. are there NO Australians who want him dead? How about PAYING someone to off this guy? I am sure there are bribable police to be found.
Are there no freelancers out there who have sniper skills?
Let's get real here. The enemy fights with guns and knives and with bombs and in our very own media and all we oppose them with is words?!
There are many different forms of Islam being practiced in Indonesia. You can probably categorize them into 6 groups:
Nahdlatul Ulema - Currently chaired by Hasyim Muzadi by spiritually lead by former Indonesian president Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur). Combines Islam with Javanese mysticism/ spiritualism/ animism. Largest Muslim organization in Indonesia with over 40 million followers. The NU sends it paramilitary wing to protect churches across Indonesia during Christmas and Easter celebrations. Preaches tolerance and co-operation with other faiths.
Muhammadiyah - Chaired by Din Syamsuddin. Second largest Muslim organization with over 30 million followers. Reformists of Indonesian style Islam and preaches return to the pure form of Islam. Rejects animism/spiritualism/ mysticism.
Muslim on ID card only - Muslim on the outside, traditional practice of animism/spiritualism/mysticism on the inside. Because Indonesians must declare their faith, these people have been categorized as Muslims. They form the largest percentage of Muslims in Indonesia. Some of these Muslims here in North Sulawesi eat pig.
Jaringan Islam Liberal - lead by Ulil Abshar-Abdalla - Liberal Islam with an emphasis on essence and not on form. Becoming more popular in Indonesia. Peaceful and tolerant to some extent. Under attack by radical Islam.
Radical Islam - well funded by Saudi Arabia. Main voice is Abu Bakr Ba'asyir, well known spiritual leader of terrorists in Southeast Asia. I call him the leader of the Indonesian Taliban. Includes Majelis Ulema Indonesia, Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia, Jemaah Islamiyah, Front Pembela Islam, Laskar Jihad, Darul Islam, Hizbut Tahrir,and a host of others. Small, well funded vocal minority. Wants Sharia law instilled in Indonesia. Responsible for terrorism and persecution in Indonesia. Has sympathisizers in all levels of government and military (thanks to funding from Saudi Arabia and dispersal of those funds to buy allegiance. Indonesian military are poorly disciplined and paid, and extra income from radicals buys their allegiance). Currently, radical Islamists are trying to infiltrate moderate mosques of NU and Muhammadiyah and take over. Introduction of Sharia by-laws in regencies first step towards Islamification of Indonesia.
Ahmadiyah - Branded apostates. Around 300,000 followers. Believe that Muhammad was not the last prophet. Fatwa ordered against them by MUI. Tolerated by NU and JIL, saying that Ahmadiyah has rights to practice their beliefs. Under severe attack by radical Islamists.
There are also various sects of Sufism here in Indonesia.
Most Indonesian Muslims are branded heretics by the Muslims of the Middle East. That's why you see little disaster aid sent from Arabs and it's mostly western Christian organizations that help tsunami, earthquake and flood victims here in Indonesia. Of course the Muslims take our aid and help, and then Islamic groups criticize us infidels for helping and accuse us of evangelizing. Ungrateful bastards. And they wonder why devastating natural disasters keep happening to them. We had a bad 7.3 earthquake last week near Manado but everything was spared with little structural damage. Wonder why that was?
What one needs to understand is that the majority of Indonesians live hand to mouth. They are poor and worry mostly about where the next meal is coming from. They have no savings and don't think about the future. They only think about now and what can they do to feed themselves today. This mentality leaves them open to persuasion and apathy towards radicalism. If they are being fed and clothed and have services provided to them (much like Hamas did in the Palestinian occupied territories of Israel and Hizballah in Lebanon)then they will sell their religiously moderate stance for rice in their belly. And all Muslims here hate Israel and the Jews. I've had 7 year old students tell me that all Jews are monkeys and should be all killed because Allah hates them. I wonder where they learned that from? Muslims from West Java, Solo in Central Java and the Makassar area of South Sulawesi strongly identify with Islam. Most Indonesian Muslims cannot read the Quran. They only know what they were taught in religion class at school and what they hear in the mosque. They cannot read Arabic or have forgotten how to if they learned at school.
The Acehenese don't want Sharia. It was brought in with the hope that it would control GAM. Now that there is peace, Aceh is still stuck with Sharia. The new governor doesn't want Sharia either. I think you will see Sharia removed from Aceh eventually only to be reintroduced when radical Islam takes over Indonesia.
In North Sulawesi, we have the highest standard of living in Indonesia (although the Indonesian government changes statistics not to reflect that). Why? We are not reliant on the government, and are Christian. We live well and eat well. We continue to be unaffected by what happens in the rest of Indonesia. We side with the west and would become another state in Australia in the blink of an eye. We speak Manado dialect first and Indonesian second. Our news on the radio broadcasts about the west and not Islamic news. We get English lessons on the news from BBC every morning. We are Western in our thinking and Western in our hearts.
Personally, I believe Indonesia will become an Islamic Republic. Moderate Muslims are too apathetic and will eventually cave in. You will see a movement of Chinese and their money out of Indonesia once this happens. This will have a devastating effect on Indonesia and will only make it easier for the radicals to enforce Sharia.
Muslims here are afraid of the Minahasa people. Minahasans eat everything including bats, dogs, etc. There is a legend about Minahasans eating the famous Indonesian ghost Kuntilanak. A lot of Indonesian Muslims believe in ghosts and are afraid of Kuntilanak. This makes them fear the ghost eaters of Minahasa.
North Sulawesi will fight tooth and nail. Either we will be rescued by Australia or some other Western country or we will all die fighting the Islamists. This is Christian land. We will expel the Muslims and if they want a fight they will get one. God bless Christian North Sulawesi.
For more about Indonesian situations, I recommend you go to Patung's site at Indonesia Matters
I've traveled throughout Indonesia extensively. I speak fluent Indonesian as well as many dialects. I know what Muslims here say about me as a westerner and a Christian. They think I don't understand them especially if they are speaking their dialect. Personally, I hate Islam and everything it stands for. It is evil and having lived in 3 Muslim countries, I've seen what it does to people. Do I hate Muslims? Some. Do I trust them? No. Do I think they can be saved from Islam. Some. What I try to do is encourage them to seek the truth and not accept their faith blindly. Testimony from personal experience from Christians and not bible scriptures has a far reaching effect. When Muslims can feel the power of Jesus working in their life and they have their own testimony then they can be free in their hearts of their slavery to Allah.
bigwhiteinfidel:
Islam itself never changes; only its trappings do.
Muslims, despite differing outward appearances, are all united by the homicidal content of Islam's teachings.
Islam teaches first degree murder; nothing else about it amounts to a hill of beans. So what if some Muslims prefer to blow up their sacrificial offerings to allah on planes, while others prefer to decapitate them, while still other Muslims prefer to hack at them with machetes? SO WHAT???????????
ps-I am starting to agree with you that Indonesia is doomed. If Indonesia doesn't become "Bin-donesia" it will be transmogrified into a graveyard instead.
Because, like I say: that's what Islam does--it kills people.