Glenn Beck (thanks to Awake) demolishes the hapless Dinesh D'Souza:
Hillary Clinton and Michael Moore are in absolutely no way responsible for the attacks of 9/11. Now just wait. We`ll check back tomorrow. I`ll show you the letters. Because about 10 percent of the viewers just translated that into Glenn Beck says liberals caused the trade -- World Trade Centers to fall, which is clearly a view I don`t have. But my next guest does.So let`s just see if there`s anybody there on the extreme left or the extreme right who will actually listen to the differences in our views or if they`re all just too busy right now blogging and logging onto their blog sites.
Dinesh D`Souza, he is the author of "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and It`s Responsibility for 9/11".
Dinesh, I have to tell you, I`m -- I`m disappointed in this book. I`m a fan. I read your book -- I believe it was called "What`s so Great About America" -- and I found it inspiring. This book, or at least the premise - - I haven`t read it -- the premise is divisive and I believe untrue. Please explain your premise.
DINESH D`SOUZA, AUTHOR, "THE ENEMY AT HOME": Well, remember, after 9/11 there was a kind of gorgeous moment of national unity. And I think my earlier book, "What`s So Great About America", reflects that.
But the truth is, Glenn, we live in a divided country. I mean, look, one half of the people in this country seem to want to fight a war on terror, and there`s an organized camp in this country that seems to want Bush to lose the war on terror.
BECK: That`s not the same, Dinesh, as causing 9/11.
D`SOUZA: No, no. I agree with that. But what I`m saying is five years after 9/11, it`s not a bad idea to take a cold, critical look and see what are the roots of 9/11.
Take a simple example. The radical Muslims have been around since the 1920s. They first got a major stake when they captured Iran. Khomeini was the first guy to cal America the great Satan, who instigated Muslims to have martyrdom and jihad against us.
And how did we get Khomeini? Because Jimmy Carter came into office. He said, "I`m a virtuous man. I believe in human rights. We support the shah. The shah is a tyrant." So America pulls the Persian rug out from under the shah. And in trying to get rid of the bad guy, we get the worst guy.
So here`s a concrete way in which we put a major state into the hands of radical Islam.
This is a far cry, of course, from the actual thesis of D'Souza's book, which isn't about Jimmy Carter's short-sighted miscalucalations. In his book, he says flatly that "the cultural left in this country is responsible for causing 9/11" (that's right on page one) -- through immorality, not through Jimmy Carter. So Beck tries to get D'Souza back on point:
BECK: I can`t believe -- why would you put me in this situation? I mean, I`m a conservative. Why are you take -- putting me into this situation where I have to just now tear you to shreds?What are you talking about, 1979 is the first time this reared its ugly head? Jimmy Carter caused this stuff? Are you crazy?
In 1950, the Muslim Brotherhood, in fact if I can give this guy`s name, Sayyid Qutb. He`s a guy who moved over to the United States in the 1940s. I mean, it took me a while to look this us, but I knew I had read this someplace before.
He moves over to the United States. He leaves. In about 1950, he goes back to Egypt, because he says America is just a decadent place.
And let me quote some of the things that he said. "The poor hair cuts in America, the enthusiasm for sports, the animal-like mixing of the sexes." This predates Jimmy Carter just by a few years.
D`SOUZA: I know. But see, Qutb was one of the thinkers of radical Islam. I`m talking about the radical Muslims moving from the theoretical phase to the phase of actually capturing a major state and making it a beachhead for launching the Khomeini revolution.
Look...
BECK: Dinesh...
D`SOUZA: ... you`ve done five minutes of Internet research but I`ve been researching this for four years. I look at all these thinkers. I look at their impact on action.
D'Souza here is just pulling rank on Beck. But the argument from authority is the weakest of all arguments. We should believe D'Souza because he has studied this for four years? Tell me another.
Now look, let me give you another example. After the Cold War the radical Muslims went back to their own countries. Bin Laden went back to Saudi Arabia. Al Zawahiri went back to Egypt. They were fighting the near enemy, their own governments.But then they decided to shift strategy and attack the far enemy, which is us, the United States. Why? Because Bin Laden said, "I have come to the view that the United States, the far enemy, is more cowardly, is more vulnerable than the near enemy."
And how did he decide that? Because the radical Muslims launched a bunch of strikes, the first bombing of the World Trade Center, the Khobar Towers attack, the embassy attacks, the bombing of the Cole. And Bill Clinton did absolutely nothing. So this emboldened bin Laden, by his own account, was emboldened to strike at 9/11.
Here again, D'Souza still is not dealing with his book's main thrust, that American immorality caused 9/11. He is right that the perception of Bill Clinton's cowardice emboldened the jihadists. But from his book, we should expect D'Souza to be saying that drugs, pornography and abortion made the jihadists decide to focus on the United States. He can't say that, however, because it is patently false, as is his entire thesis, and so in defending it he resorts to irrelevancy.
BECK: Boy, you`ve done -- you`ve done a great job of mixing some fact with some fiction. You`re exactly right; that did embolden Osama bin Laden. But your point -- and please correct me if I have this wrong -- is that the liberals in America are the root of the problem.I am a conservative, sir, who is telling you the nut jobs over in the Middle East have used the fertilizer of things like Hollywood and liberalism, or the idea here of, you know, Bill Clinton emboldening them or even, dare I say it, Ronald Reagan doing the same thing in Beirut. Yes, that`s fertilizer. That`s not the root, Dinesh.
D`SOUZA: No, true. But I agree with this. But you have to realize that the radical Muslims, while they are exploiting these things, are striking a resonant chord among traditional Muslims. And the traditional Muslims are the recruiting pool of radical Islam.
Indeed.
So we will not be able to drive a wedge between traditional Islam and radical Islam if we cannot effectively answer the charge that we are trying to impose secularism, family breakdown and moral decadence of Islamic society. Simply snorting about it isn`t going to solve the problem.
Nonsense. These are pretexts used to stir up anger against us. That's certainly true. But ultimately the jihad imperative rests on the words of the Qur'an, the teachings of Muhammad, and the rulings of the Islamic schools of law. All agree that Muslims must wage war against non-Muslims in order to establish Islamic law over the world. They must do this whether or not the non-Muslims are immoral. And as D'Souza himself points out here, the modern resurgance of the jihad is based on the perception that America is weak, not on the perception that America is immoral.
BECK: Simply separating ourselves and saying that anyone beside those hijackers flew those planes into those buildings, those are the people responsible.
Yes. As always with this sort of thing, much more needs to be said. But Beck did a good job within a short timeframe.
Agree.
Not agree.
The Qur'an contains the Words of Allah, my Creator and yours. Beautiful, powerful and moving even in translation it advocates a humble and sincere life of worship. If you truly wish to understand its meaning you must humbly ask Allah for His protection and guidance, because hearts that are influenced by Satan and by selfish and vain desires cannot hope to encompass any of the Holy truth of the Qur'an.
When Glenn Beck is focused, and on point, he can be an effective mouthpiece against the worldwide Islamic threat as demonstrated by his airing segments from the film, "Obsession" and by having our very own, Robert Spencer, as a guest. (I'm still waiting for O'Reilly or Hannity and Colmes to do likewise).
However, Glenn's big announcement earlier this year that, "Islam is Peaceful; only a small minority of extremists have hijacked the faith..." still sticks in my craw. Hopefully it was just lip-service for his liberal bosses at CNN.
maryam, the people here are too well informed for you pious lies. We will not submit to Allah/Satan.
"I`ve been researching this for four years."
-- from D'Souza's complacent remark above
My, my.
And how long did Snouck Hurgronje do "research"? Joseph Schacht, the man who could deliver his lectures on Islamic law in fluent Arabic? How long did Arthur Jeffrey, did Edmond Fagnan, did Armand Abel, did Georges Vajda, study Islam? How long did S. D. Goitein study, and then, at the end of his life, conclude on the basis of that lifetime of study that he had for a long time underestimated, misunderstood, the full malevolence of Islam, and the enormous burden of the Jizyah on those upon whom it was inflicted? How long did that lonely scholar Bat Ye'or, who had grown up and endured a Muslim society, do her research on her many books, including "The Dhimmi" and "Islam and Dhimmitude" and "The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam" and "Eurabia" and a few more, and so many articles as well?
How long, oh D'Souza, how long?
D'Souza must be held up to constant ridicule. He is ridiculous.
It's simple.
Boycott his book. Boycott his lectures.
He's lost any guise of credibility.
I saw this last night, and to be honest I thought for sure that Beck was going to do the "hijack thing" again with D'Souza aw well. I was impressed, it seems more frequently I see and hear more talk questioning the islamic faith, and what exactly it stands for.
Oh and thanks Hugh, I have been searching for the perfect word to describe what I feel Islam is.
Malevolent.
Bravo to Glenn Beck for keeping the focus where it belongs, on the jihadists.
If you were a jihadist, what would be the best way to weaken the camp of the infidels? Divide and conquer, the oldest game in the book. If they can inflame domestic left-right divisions, and get for example, the conservatives to blame not the jihadists, but the liberals, then who benefits while the left and right hammer it out?
Who is responsible for jihadism? Clinton, because he didn't respond strongly enough when the Cole was bombed. No wait, Bush, because he angered the Islamic world by invading Iraq. No wait, Carter, because he let Khomeini come to power in Iran. No wait, Reagan because he trained the Afghan resistance (including OBL) during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. And on and on it goes, all completely off-track. The jihadists are responsible for jihad, and they would attack us no matter what actions we took, because we are kafirs, pure and simple.
This is the single most important fact to learn. The jihadists attack us because we are infidels, unbelievers, unclean. No matter what we do it will never be good enough. No matter how much land Israel gives to the "Palestinians" it will never be enough. No matter how many water-treatment plants and bridges and power-plants we build them in Iraq, we will be the cause of everything evil in their eyes.
I have criticised our leaders for not recognizing the jihad, and for not taking the steps to protect us from it. I have never criticised our leaders for causing the jihad, or for being responsible for the jihadists' actions. If Bush tomorrow announced that all Muslim immigration was ending immediately, I would praise him to the moon.
So, bravo to Glenn Beck. Sometimes he seems to really get it right.
"...mouthpiece against the worldwide Islamic threat..."
Islam is no threat to anybody, but the Capitalists do not want it around all the same. As the only way of life offering any possibility of happiness on Earth they know you'd abandon them and choose it if you knew, hence the massive anti-Islam campaign.
"Islam is Peaceful; only a small minority of extremists have hijacked the faith..." still sticks in my craw.
I agree, it sticks in mine too, but we can't blame innocent muslims for trying to understand what is being done to them. Nobody has hijacked the faith, that is, nobody within the faith, but outside the faith world powers work tirelessly to pull this hoax off.
Maryam,
I too am mesmerized by the magnificent beauty of Sura 5:38:
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.
Perhaps you and I could meet somewhere, discretely of course, and exact Big Al's divine punishment on some unfortunate pickpocket.
What'ya say, baby?
maryam,
You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how ridiculous or delusional, but please don't confuse beliefs with facts. In my (also entitled) opinion, Islam is a primitive, misognystic, supremist, screed from a violent, oversexed, war lord designed to enslave his followers and stifle independent, rational thought. I tolerate your views, but the real question is, do you tolerate mine?
maryam,
The qur'an contains the words of allah? Why, because the qur'an itself says so?
Powerful and moving even in translation? Wow, that's a major flaw for a supposedly universal message if there ever was one!
D'Souza's timetable is off by about 1300 years.
It's not a small minority. How Many Islamists?
Every Islamic country on the face of the earth is a disaster. Everyone wants to come to America, not Iran. There are how many Mosques in the U.S.? How many Churches in Saudi Arabia? Islam is a narrow deceptive intolerant ideology. The only reason Islam is "moderate" in the U.S. for now is that it is under the umbrella of Judeo-Christian heritage and law. If you are a Muslim you need to start questioning what you believe.
D'Souza should talk to jihadists capture all over the world to know if they will stop attacking infidels if infidels are totally moral? And is not violent means to impose their brand of morality over people separated thousands of miles from them something much more sinister which leftist liberal are capable of? And does D'Souza knows exactly how much the moral standards of even most conservative christians are different from even 'traditional, non jihadist Muslim'?
But your point -- and please correct me if I have this wrong -- is that the liberals in America are the root of the problem.
The seed is the doctrine. The root is 'extremism'. But the plant can’t grow without a whole bunch of fertilizer. And tall electric fences with barbed wire on top to keep the guys with weed whackers away.
CITGO is now running commercials in the Northeast. Joe Kennedy is their new spokesman, speaking glowingly of our new Venezuelan friends from the deck of an oil tanker. That’s a heaping helping of Ammonium Nitrate.
Fortunately, America still has deep reserves of weed-be-gone.
Want truth? Here's truth:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/01/19/deport-hilali-t-shirts-now-available/
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/01/19/dont-let-hilali-get-away-this-time/
...and a song for Maryam:
http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/19/my-allah-is-better/
another one:
http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/20/philistine-child/
"...This is the single most important fact to learn. The jihadists attack us because we are infidels, unbelievers, unclean..."
The single most important fact to learn is what nonsensical, non-thinking the "jihadist" idea is. Israel just bombed Lebanon to bits, but the Lebanese are still not Israeli, and haven't changed their ideas at all. That is because bombs, even if you have a lot of them, do not change people's minds or systems of rule. Now, the "scarey enemy" that has been made up for you does not appear to have a country, or finance, or weapons, or even a stated belief system. How do they hope to take over even one street with a plan that weak?
If you want to know how to take over the world watch how the experts (the Western governments)are doing it.
"I tolerate your views, but the real question is, do you tolerate mine?"
Of course I do, you are entitled to choose between Islam and any other belief or way of life, it is entirely up to you. Allah ta'ala could have made us all believers if He chose, but He sent us prophets with a message for each of us to accept or reject. Just make sure you get your understanding right.
What D'Souza is groping for in his incoherent way, and by means of his deformed and impaired paradigm, is a helpful tactical approach:
1) to notice whatever factors (besides ideological, also to include economic, political, sociological) serve to stimulate acute flare-ups of Islamic threats
2) to find ways to re-route, defuse and/or quash these acute stimulations
3) to use these stimulations to our advantage within our larger strategic goals.
(#3 may sometimes contravene #2, and vice-versa).
I.e., a tactical approach of Realpolitik against the Islamic threat should be employed (and D'Souza seems to be groping after that) -- but only casuistically, and this should never distract us from, or eclipse, our overall strategy: the larger issue, the root cause, the "swamp", Islam itself. This is where D'Souza's wider focus fails. Needless to say, you can't successfully pursue a program of tactics that is otherwise sound, if your strategy is abysmally impaired, as is D'Souza's.
I would give D'Souza a C plus in tactics, and a failing F in strategy.
Has either Dinesh or Maryam spent an hour reading the MUSLIM version of Muhammad's "career" or of the history of Islam?
Do either of them know anything about the slaughter of 60-90 MILLION Hindus?
Both of them are idiots, plain and simple.
Ethelred
PRCS; What do you object to in Surah 5:38? And why do you think your brain capacity and wisdom will be greater than God's in the matter of human organisation (or in any matter)? And have you assessed the entire system of shari'a law?
Henry! you cannot use the Qur'an against Islam! The Qur'an is the SOURCE of Islam. Millions of brighter people than us have read the Qur'an and submitted to their Creator through it. You simply do not understand that passage. On top of this misunderstanding of Qur'an many people are also too arrogant to consider any other view/interpretation than the one that first occured to them could be right.
Don't be surprised when after the next devastating terrorist attack, or even the next big natural disaster, people like Dinesh D'Souza, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell will say we displeased God. And they will be instrumental in pushing laws that enforce piety and morality. They may EVEN side with the muslims on this one because of so-called shared values. Abortion will be outlawed, birth control will be taken out of pharmacies, homosexuals will lose all the rights they have, even the right to breathe, and dissidents will be taken care of. I don't mean just liberals and whatnot. Part of enforcing Christian morality will involved making Sunday worship mandatory. So they will also go after those who keep Saturday as their day of worship, such as the Seventh Day Adventists which I am. And Seventh Day Adventists don't have a group like CAIR that will speak up for them.
Sorry if I sound too paranoid but looking at what the Christian right and the Islamists are saying, it could head that way. All I can do is watch.
"maryam,
The qur'an contains the words of allah? Why, because the qur'an itself says so?.."
Assess it yourself. How did so many correct facts about nature and science get in there when such things were unknown then? not a single one is wrong. What are the chances of getting 100 correct guesses about unknown matters, all in one place? Get a book about the miracles of the Qur'an from an Islamic book website.
I just saw D'Souza on Cavuto, now he's blaming Britney Spears for 9/11
Maryam exactly what are these correct facts about science and nature that you speak of?
"I have never criticised our leaders for causing the jihad, or for being responsible for the jihadists' actions."
Which is strange, considering they set the bombs and staged the propaganda and masterminded the concept of an invisible inexplicable unpredictable incomprehensible "threat" to scare their citizens into letting them take their constitutional rights.
maryam said
Israel did not bomb Lebanon to bits, their attacks were very precisely directed at the jihadists. Most of Lebanon was untouched by the war. Israel's was not using its bombs to change Lebanese minds, it was reducing Hezb'Allah's ability to attack Israel. And in that sense, they did not use enough bombs, they did not bomb enough of Lebanon to bits. They gave in to UN pressure to stop the invasion before the Hezb'Allah was destroyed.
But you have a good point, one that Bush should pay attention to. Our goal should not be to change Muslim minds, either with bombs or financial aid or reconstruction. None of these will have any effect on the jihadist brain. We need to stop trying to persuade the jihadists to "please like us", and instead simply crush the jihadists' head like a grape. Our defensive wars against Islam should not have the goal of making friends (which isn't going to happen), they should have the goal of destroying any ability to attack us ever again.
maryam writes:
"The Qur'an contains the Words of Allah, my Creator and yours. Beautiful, powerful and moving even in translation it advocates a humble and sincere life of worship."
Boring and practically unreadable in translation for it's malice, it advocates unending warfare
against unbelievers.
Why is it that most Mohammadans support
terrorism, while even anti abortion Christians
almost unanimously oppose similar murderous
tactics against abortionists? Because at it's
core, Christianity advocates peace and love,
while Mohammadanism advocates hatred and terror.
"And why do you think your brain capacity and wisdom will be greater than God's in the matter of human organisation (or in any matter)? "
I don't think the Koran is from God, but rather
from a deranged desert pedophile, caravan
raider, and all around pirate. Lot's of "smarter"
people than me fell for Nazism and Communism
too. So what?
As God is not revealing himself incontrovertibly
to all mankind, I think we humans are on our own
when it comes to human organisation. And, other
than destroying better civilizations like termites, what has Islam brought? Poverty, war, death...
I doubt that you fool anyone here maryam. We know about your lying "prophet", may he burn in
Hell forever.
maryam said
The concept of jihad is not invisible, it is visible every day we watch the news. It is not inexplicable, the justification is explicated quite clearly in the Qur'an and hadiths. If one is familiar with the precepts of Islam and with the life and words of Mohammad, jihad becomes quite predictable and comprehensible.
That is Robert and Hugh's (and others') gift to the world: to explain that which was formerly incomprehensible, to make order out of the disorder of 1,350 years of Islamic violence.
"Maryam" is an Englsh convert and a Very True Believer. Her zombie-like postings are remarkable testimony to how someone on a Spiritual Search can create his own Private Islam, and then believe in it, and then propagandize for it without any hint of doubt. She manages, despite the textual and historical evidence that someone less intent on submitting to Allah (because "Allah knows best") might look at, to keep on believing in this, her Salvation anbd Her Answer, the Answer that after so much doubt and anomie and anguish has given her, this child of the West, a certainty, a Total Regulation of her Life, a Complete Explanation of the Universe, and instead of the Leibnizian monad, suffering its big-city modern-life Durkheimian anomie, she gets to be part of Islam, listening to Allah, joining the Collective, the umma al-islamiyya.
It is not a whit different from those who, eyes glittering with hope and hate, joined the Nazis because they offered "salvation" for Germany.
Like Naseem, she's a temporary exhibit. On display. Examine her thought proceses and views. Learn from her example. Learn what some can be brought to accept, in an act of auto-brainwashing.
Glenn Beck Good Job!
We cannot allow people like D'Souza erect liberal straw men to distract us in this conflict. Yes lots of things on the left bother me but thats a different fight for another day. We have our hands full with Jihad, Sharia, and Islam in general to be fighting with our fellow westerners over what is the west. We must unify against our common enemy.
Our values are:
(1) Free Speech
(2) Freedom of Religion
(3) Freedom of Self and Anti-Slavery
(4) Women as Equals
Lets try defending these. If Islamic law has its way and jihad wins then these will not exist. Thats are values and anyone who sides with us on these four must side with us against Jihad and Sharia. Thus they are anti-jihad.
Glenn Beck is not there yet but if push comes to shove he will side with those in the anti-jihad camp and people who get it. He is much further down the road then our current president or people like Rush, O'Reiley, and Hanity. None of them get it. We have to educate the liberal on why they must join our cause and not attack them with stupid charges that have no bases. Tell them why it matters to them to fight Jihad and Sharia. Why everything that matters to them will be gone if those forces win. Some will join...some will not.
Who knows maybe something will rub off on them. It appears we going to have to educate many conservatives also....see D'Souza as an example. Some will join and some will not.
Maybe there is a lesson for all of us. The Conservative and Liberal definitions may need to be changed. Its a new world. Are you Anti-Jihad or you are not. Do you fight to protect those four values or are you against those four values. Lets see where the chips fall. It is clear D'Souza has a real problem with no. 4 and perhaps even the others. What side does he fall?
Everyone please ignore Maryam. She is a Zionist imposteur!
Maryam, if you are a muslimah, you should not be posting here - according to your allah and his prophit, you are deficient in your religion and your intelligence, and will have little luck converting us to your way of thinking.
You should not be associating with dirty infidels lest we infect you with a good dose of clear thinking.
Please return to secluding yourself from the outside world until your guardian allows you to come out and play.
Otherwise, you may get yourself into trouble, and while I know that your guardian is allowed to smack you around on the offchance that you may do the wrong thing, I do not believe that that is acceptable behaviour.
Even if you do.
L.Drummond.
"Maryam exactly what are these correct facts about science and nature that you speak of?"
Off the top of my head, "mountains like pegs"- they did not know mountains' roots go down further than their peaks rise; "..darkness of the deep sea, above which are waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds" We only discovered there are waves deep under the oceans when the first satelites went up. Reference to a bee being female when until recently it was widely assumed to be a 'king bee', reference to milk production in the cow, detailed reference to embryonic devellopmental stages, reference to time zones and that night and day occur at the same time in different places; the slow speed of travel then made it impossible to perceive. There are many many more, for more detail see an islamic bookshop.
Dinesh D`Souza is wrong when he states that the cultural Left is responsible for 9/11. If on the other hand he stated that the cultural Left is responsible for the shielding of radical Islam in the West, he would be right.
I'm thinking here about the many ways we can attack the creeping Islamisation of the West. On this site we have complained often enough, that the Left-Liberal alliance shields Islamic radicalism. If Dinesh D`Souza can make an impact here, while at the same time insulating himself from the charge of "Islamophobia", it wouldnt be such a bad thing.
I have looked at Islamic countries that have had Muslim populations for centuries. In every one of these countries, the people are poor, the land is destroyed, there is much death,they have fostered hate, promoted honor killings, condoned slavery, promoted torture, arson, mass atrocities, rape, failed foreign policies,destroyed other religions, destroyed libraries, failed in educating the masses, many internal conflicts, fostered hate,created mahem,denied the people freedom to become independent thinkers , destroyed creativity, and still are the worst dressed people on the planet,
I look at the track record of Islam and it looks like a failure....
Posted by Maryam
"Off the top of my head, "mountains like pegs"- they did not know mountains' roots go down further than their peaks rise; "..darkness of the deep sea, above which are waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds" We only discovered there are waves deep under the oceans when the first satelites went up. Reference to a bee being female when until recently it was widely assumed to be a 'king bee', reference to milk production in the cow, detailed reference to embryonic devellopmental stages, reference to time zones and that night and day occur at the same time in different places; the slow speed of travel then made it impossible to perceive. There are many many more, for more detail see an islamic bookshop."
Ladies and Gentleman....I give you Islamic Science in all its glory. :)
See the bright logic!!!!!
The funny thing all the discoveries she notes came from us Western Scientist and Engineers...
Maryam
"There are many many more, for more detail see an islamic bookshop."
OH there is the problem...
The Islamic Bookshop!
Thats how you found Islam.
This is going to fun...let me guess you have done research for 4 years!!!!!
Maryam posted
"Off the top of my head, "mountains like pegs"- they did not know mountains' roots go down further than their peaks rise; "..darkness of the deep sea, above which are waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds" We only discovered there are waves deep under the oceans when the first satelites went up. Reference to a bee being female when until recently it was widely assumed to be a 'king bee', etc etc
Can anyone explain to this Kuffar what Maryam is talking about.
Maryam,
"Not agree.
The Qur'an contains the Words of Allah, my Creator and yours. Beautiful, powerful and moving even in translation it advocates a humble and sincere life of worship. If you truly wish to understand its meaning you must humbly ask Allah for His protection and guidance, because hearts that are influenced by Satan and by selfish and vain desires cannot hope to encompass any of the Holy truth of the Qur'an. "
If Allah is the same Creater as is the God of the Jews and Christians, then why when the Muslims do worship, they worship a cube with a metor rock inside it? This puts the first few words, "my Creator and yours" in a lot of doubt.
Posted by: DP111
"Can anyone explain to this Kuffar what Maryam is talking about."
Its called the 7th Century! We 21st Century people can only guess the meaning..
@Maryam
You write that the Quran was the first with:
"to a bee being female when until recently it was widely assumed to be a 'king bee'"
NONSENSE! THE WORD FOR BEE IN HEBREW IS "DVORAH" WHICH IS FEMININE!!!!! It's found in the Old Testament which is TWO THOUSAND years older than the Quran. The Jews figured it out thousands of years ago.
Step down. Case closed. Islam is a joke!
maryam wrote:
PRCS; What do you object to in Surah 5:38? And why do you think your brain capacity and wisdom will be greater than God's in the matter of human organisation (or in any matter)? And have you assessed the entire system of shari'a law?
........................................
Oh, you mean the other beautiful and wise aspects of Shari'a law, such as stoning teenage rape victims to death?
I think we should leave Maryam to her own devices. She needs help, and this is not the place for it.
--------------------------------------------
Robert Spencer is expending a lot of effort over Dinesh D`Souza's book. I made a comment that instead of critising D'Souza, it would be best to leave him to attack the cultural Liberal-Left, and its support of Islam. In so doing, we will be doing ourselves a favour.
The attack on Islam's agenda can come in many forms, many of which we may not agree with, because they are not pure enough. An example is Daniel Pipes. For a long time he has continued to state the existence of a moderate Islam - the true Islam, that will rescue Islam from the fanatics. This despite being refuted by many. On his own site, the vast majority of the comments do not agree with his position.
Despite this, he is useful. As Daniel Pipes is a public figure, if ever he stated that there is no such thing as a moderate Islam, he would be instantly demonised by the Left-Liberal media, CAIR etc. He would then lose his public postion for good. That would make him useless in this war.
A similar thing holds for all those who are in the public eye. Mr Spencer for instance, knows about Islam like no other, and yet he has to be careful what he states in public, or he will lose the opportunity to educate the public, as well as rebut the Taqqiya merchants of CAIR etal.
"It [joining Islam] is not a whit different from those who, eyes glittering with hope and hate, joined the Nazis because they offered "salvation" for Germany."
There are important differences:
1) Nazism was not global. Nazism -- and even with its other alliances (Italy, Japan) -- was not so globally dispersed and atomized that people could stubbornly persist (after 1939) in arguing that there was no major coherent threat, but only a "tiny minority of extremists".
2) Nazism did not enjoy a privileged status under the haloes of being considered as
a) an established religion with a long tradition
b) a Third World culture, with all the wounded innocence -- wounded by the Big Bad West -- this implies as sanctioned and lovingly elaborated by this same West under the recent dominant ideology of PC Multiculturalism.
While the West's response time to Nazism (and Fascism) was initially slow, the sloth quickly dissipated and our rational power was appropriately marshalled to defeat that enemy.
Our response time (even just to get to first base: know your enemy) if we date it from 1979 has been abysmal, and if dated from 9/11 has been shamefully slow; and we see no signs that it is picking up speed quickly and broadly enough. As of January of 2007, the West is still groping like a purblind old man during a blackout for the obvious question: "Is Islam itself the main source of the problem of dangerous Muslims?" We haven't even gotten to the point, collectively and officially, where this question of utmost exigency is on the table, merely as a question to be posed. And those few who have already arrived at a workable answer -- the Robert Spencers, Hugh Fitzgeralds, David Horowitzes, et al. -- stand at the finishing line alone, largely marginalized, ignored, slandered.
remote control posted; And those few who have already arrived at a workable answer -- the Robert Spencers, Hugh Fitzgeralds, David Horowitzes, et al. -- stand at the finishing line alone, largely marginalized, ignored, slandered.
What workable answer? I hadnt realised that Mr Spencer had put forward a workable answer to the problem we face.
@ Maryam
You write that "The Qur'an contains the Words of Allah, my Creator and yours. Beautiful, powerful and moving even in translation"
HERE'S A GOOD EXAMPLE:
(15) It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land.
===========================
Yup! Beautiful, powerful and moving. Like dimembered bodies, exploded infidels, blood, perversity.
Sure thing, Maryam.
2+2=6
Welcome to Izlam.
DP111
No offense and I understand where you are coming from but I disagree....
Should we attack Hirsi Ali becuase she is a liberal. Should we attack Bruce Bawer becuase he is a homesexual and liberal. Letting D'Souza and his type not only divide the anti-jihad forces but also convince people in the conservative wing that liberals are more dangerous then Islamic concepts like jihad and sharia is foolish.
D'Souza is a direct challange to the philosophy that Islamic terror is rooted in Islamic teachings. He is a direct challange to to all the work done by Mr. Spencer and others. Thats why it is important to defeat that notion. It is just wrong and you don't win an argument by allowing someone to spread falsehoods without a direct challange. I don't care what his conservative creditials are. That don't matter anymore becuase Bush and others in the conservative wing refuse to fight Jihad and Islamic theology of hate. To even name the enemy is beyond the pale to these people. Heck some even in the conservative wing even shield Islamic terror (See Saudia Arabia). How is that different then liberals helping tear down our anti-terror laws.
The simple fact is neither party answers the call to fight jihad. They only offer half-measure and smoke and mirror games.
You are either Anti-Jihad or Not. We need to convert more of the "nots" into "anti-jihad" who are conservative, liberal, or other. Daniel Pipes is left alone becuase when push comes to shove he will hopefully join the cause. He has no other choice but people like D'Souza coming along does not help.
I'm willing to think that the world is more complex than most of y'all seem to think, and that more than ONE CAUSE can be operating at once on any given historical event, let alone on the big trends.
(I won't make any argument from authority here...)
Islam = Malevolent
West = Decadent/Weak/Cowardly
Are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE arguments... but rather they EXACTLY explain the historical convergence at THIS or THAT point in time...
Add to that convergence a HOST of other factors, including technological and economic developments, not least of which is the rise of oil as an energy source which pulled the Middle East out of the historical backwater it had been in since the 17th century and the rise of European nation-states.
Duh.
Dumb Ox
greatcometof1577
Thanks for that.
No, we should not attack Hirsi Ali for being a liberal or Bruce Bawer for being a homosexual. OTH, Hirsi Ali attacks all religions, including Christianity, which is the basis of our civilisation. In this manner she weakens our moral foundation. Despite this, she is useful.
The problem is that no one in any position in the public forum has suggested any real and effective means to combat the continuing growth of Islam in the West. What to do? Continue with the expose that Robert Spencer does so magnificiently. This can carry on for ever with continuous debates, rebuttals, Taqqiyas, etc etc, and we will arrive at a position in the not too distant future, when Muslims are in sufficiently large numbers, and well truly esconced, to dictate terms.
How do we get to the position that allows us to challenge the Left-Liberal assumption that all cultures are alike? It is only then conceivable to put paid to Islam's spread in the West. D'Souza's attack on Left-Liberal assumptions may yet prove useful.
Dinesh Dsouza,
Well the name sounds Indian
And if he is an Indian,then as an Indian I am really ashamed of him.
He is an idiot who does not relaise the danger.
The danger lurking in name of Islam for last 1000 years and growing powerful day by day.
Maryam:
"If you truly wish to understand its meaning you must humbly ask Allah for His protection and guidance, because hearts that are influenced by Satan and by selfish and vain desires cannot hope to encompass any of the Holy truth of the Qur'an."
What is NOT selfish and vain about someone who would leave this earth in search of several dozen virgins rather than struggle to make life better for those who believe as he does? Does he believe in the goodness of humanity or are non-believers decrepit in his eyes?
Living is harder than dying, my dear. You love your martyrs, but the fact is the people you worship as martyrs have simply taken the easy way out.
DP111,
"What workable answer? I hadnt realised that Mr Spencer had put forward a workable answer to the problem we face."
The answer I was referring to related to the question that I said hasn't even been posed yet by the West at large:
"Is Islam itself the main source of the problem of dangerous Muslims?" We haven't even gotten to the point, collectively and officially, where this question of utmost exigency is on the table, merely as a question to be posed.
Spencer and Fitzgerald (et al.) have not only asked the question, they have answered it, and beyond that have provided many layers of data, explanation and argumentation to that answer. When I characterize that answer as "workable", I don't mean they have worked out a detailed strategy to solving the problem the answer raises. But, as Florence Nightingale knew, you can't begin to solve a problem before you have asked the appropriate questions, and answered them. So that answer is workable insofar as once the West gets up to speed on it and agrees to it (more or less, with minor disagreements about peripheral points), it will be a piece of cake to take care of the Problem of Islam.
Our main problem now is not Islam, but our PC which gets in the way of our rational analysis of, and effective action in response to, the Problem of Islam.
That's why I now say: PC is worse than Islam.
Maryam:
""Islam is Peaceful; only a small minority of extremists have hijacked the faith..." still sticks in my craw.
I agree, it sticks in mine too, but we can't blame innocent muslims for trying to understand what is being done to them. Nobody has hijacked the faith, that is, nobody within the faith, but outside the faith world powers work tirelessly to pull this hoax off."
So why aren't peaceful Muslims working AGAINST those who are doing violence in the name of Allah? Why do you worship them as martyrs? What is Islamic in their actions?
remote control
"Is Islam itself the main source of the problem of dangerous Muslims?" We haven't even gotten to the point, collectively and officially, where this question of utmost exigency is on the table, merely as a question to be posed.
Let us suppose the answer to that is a Yes. What next? No one in the public eye has proposed anything sustantive. Hugh F wants to stop all Muslim immigration, but he is not a public eye. I dont think Robert Spencer has proposed any such thing.
"I tolerate your views, but the real question is, do you tolerate mine?"
Of course I do, you are entitled to choose between Islam and any other belief or way of life, it is entirely up to you. Allah ta'ala could have made us all believers if He chose, but He sent us prophets with a message for each of us to accept or reject. Just make sure you get your understanding right.
Maryam:
So you tolerate my views? Please explain the following verses and just how "tolerant" they are:
[3.85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
(I know you'll say that this refers to what will be done in the hereafter, but then why do Muslims care one whit about anyone who rejects the faith?)
3.110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.
[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain; so Allah makes this to be an intense regret in their hearts; and Allah gives life and causes death and Allah sees what you do
(Had they been with us they would not have been slain?)
[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.
(doesn't sound very tolerant of non-believers)
[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves
(See above)
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
(Ditto)
Maryam:
Millions of brighter people than us have read the Qur'an and submitted to their Creator through it. You simply do not understand that passage. On top of this misunderstanding of Qur'an many people are also too arrogant to consider any other view/interpretation than the one that first occured to them could be right.
Did you read your own words? Have you looked in the mirror today? Many people are too arrogant to consider any other view than the one that first occurred to them? Do Muslims hold this view about themselves or are all Muslims unwilling to consider that someone else might have just as valid a view of the Lord and the hereafter? NOW who's being arrogant?
Maryam,
your comment:
"Of course I do, you are entitled to choose between Islam and any other belief or way of life, it is entirely up to you. Allah ta'ala could have made us all believers if He chose, but He sent us prophets with a message for each of us to accept or reject. Just make sure you get your understanding right."
Posted by: maryam at January 19, 2007 03:28 PM
directly contradicts what many islamists say. They say that your 'god' has preordained everyone's life, so , you see, there is no "choice" in life of accepting or rejecting the message of the 'prophets', just livin' our lives on allah's big chess board.
Also if the koran is such a scientific wonder, why does it say the sun sets in a puddle of mud and that conception begins with a drop of blood? Any truth in the koran is knowledge gained from taking over other cultures before burning them out under the yoke of islam.
If the koran is the direct word of 'god', why does it switch from first person to third and back again? Why would a 'god' compose such a book that 'can only be truly understood in arabic' and correctly interpretted by imams....hasn't he made all people and cultures?
If Jesus was just a prophet why did he never mention mohammed (except maybe that we would know him by the fruit of his deeds?)Why would anyone being of sound mind think that mohammed's bloodthirsty/pedophillic ways are better that Jesus' "Love Thy Neighbor" with NO RESTRICTIONS OR PRECONDITIONS of whatever ethnicity or religion that neighbor happens to be? Why are there no miracles by ol' mo?
DP111
"No, we should not attack Hirsi Ali for being a liberal or Bruce Bawer for being a homosexual. OTH, Hirsi Ali attacks all religions, including Christianity, which is the basis of our civilisation. In this manner she weakens our moral foundation."
Yes she does but she does not blame Christianity for why Islam is waging war against the west. She is a big proponet of ideals from western civilization like women's rights and freedom of thought. She is against slavery and for free dialogue. Yea so what she does not accept Christ as the son of god. Neither do the Jews last time I looked. She does not say you can't be a Christian and she does not want a state to take away your right to be one. You can't get more western then that. She is not attacking but making stronger the ideals of westernism. Last time I look Jimmy Carter goes to church and claims Jesus is the son of God. Does that make him moral to you. Is he better then Mrs. Ali in your eyes.
"The problem is that no one in any position in the public forum has suggested any real and effective means to combat the continuing growth of Islam in the West. What to do? Continue with the expose that Robert Spencer does so magnificiently. This can carry on for ever with continuous debates, rebuttals, Taqqiyas, etc etc, and we will arrive at a position in the not too distant future, when Muslims are in sufficiently large numbers, and well truly esconced, to dictate terms."
We have no hope unless we first get people to understand the dangers of Islamic theology. We have leaders who do even know what is in Koran or anything else for that matter about Islam. Education of the danger....then a plan to fight the danger. Two seperate problems. I have my solution but it will take some time to put it together into a rational plan.
"How do we get to the position that allows us to challenge the Left-Liberal assumption that all cultures are alike? It is only then conceivable to put paid to Islam's spread in the West. D'Souza's attack on Left-Liberal assumptions may yet prove useful."
First most liberals are not like that. I could say that most Christians want a Theocratic State and we know that is not true. That is propaganda delt out by the Hanitys and Rushs of the world. The liberals have to find their roots. One time they stood for things like Women's Rights. If they still stand for things like that then they need to be challenged as to why they are not defending them anymore. Liberals need to be told about the enlightenment which they helped spearhead. Look at what enlightenment leaders said about Islam. These are the kind of constructive critisims of the liberal left that are useful. Not D'Souza's attack strategy which is flawed to its core.
I can pose this to you: Why is George W. Bush defending a Islamic state in Saudi Arabia? Why does he not stand up for principles like freedom of Religion or freedom of speech. Instead he and others cover it up.
Political Correctness is the problem and it has infected both conservatives and liberals. Neither wants to make hard stands on Islam for fear of the other or (people within) calling them an Islamophobe. I have had enough conservatives call me that to know better now. Look at what happened to Hirsi Ali. She is called an Islamophobe by liberals. Look at Robert Spencer. How many times has O'reilly or Hanity had him on TV? Why do you think that is? Why does Bush use the ROP line?
Why not instead use the collective wespons we have in our arsonal to go after Islam. Liberals from the left should attack the lack of women's rights and racism within Islam. Conservatives should attack the lack of religious freedom within Islam. Both groups should attack the lack of free speech within Islam.
"D'Souza's attack on Left-Liberal assumptions may yet prove useful."
He is not attacking them for their assumptions he is instead putting the blame on them for why Islam does Jihad. That is not useful but instead damages our own cause.
Btw: Most people are not conservative or liberal but moderate. These are the most important people we need to win over. Shaking the bible and morals infront of them really turns them off. We need to find what we have in common and help them see the danger.
Look I know we are all on the same side and I don't want to offend a fellow anti-jihadi. We just have a different opinnion on how to approach a very complex problem of a group of madmen wanting to kill us becuase we don't accept their prophet. In the end that what it is all about.
Our goal is still the same...Death to Sharia, Death to Jihad.
Interesting facts about the koran and the Bible.
Bible has predicted dozens of historical events hundreds of years before they occured.
i.e. The birth of Christ centuries before he was born mentioned repeatedly in the Old Testament.
i.e. Christ predicting his own death.
i.e. Christ predicting the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
What has the koran predicted?
ZERO. Nothing. Nada.
Reading about this reality.
Priceless.
Anyone tempted to respond to maryam on this thread (I'm guilty) is now urged to first read Hugh's brilliant post; (Posted by: Hugh at January 19, 2007 04:31 PM) above. He has perfectly explained the futility of such an endeavor.
Maryam/Nazeem etc. Folks the mooslimes are sending their women to fight us here. I guess they are cowards to discuss it themselves.
Maryam is most likely a man, using the usual Islamic deception.
It may come as news to you Maryam, a whole bunch of stuff written in Cowran, is simply a cut and paste job stolen from the Christian and Jewish scripts. Your MooHaMad was a punk. Read the Cowran with an open mind then you'll know where we are coming from.
Everyone on this site agrees the goal is to move public opinion, which means taking on Political Correctness.
I agree with Hugh that D'Souza needs to be ridiculed (which hurts me to say as a long time National Review loyalist who likes D'Souza's thinking on non-Jihad issues). D'Souza is simply the right wing version of "blame America first."
I do think that others at National Review, Hannity, Rush, etc. are in a different category, and are in fact, reachable. In fact, on today's show, Rush responded to an assertion that the source of terrorism was Israel with the reply of "have you read the Koran?" On today's Hannity show, he said something like "there are a lot of extremists out there." Movement is happening. We can't doubt movement when a lib like Boxer disses CAIR.
The National Review, Rush, Hannity, and others are not the source of the problem, and in fact, they do more to take on political correctness than many. If someone is willing to ask hard questions about immigration, defend western civilzation, mock political correctness, and constantly restate the greatness of America, then they are on our side and require no mocking.
The Cold War coation against the Soviets was not uniform in its thinking. Lets not attack allies, and anyone willing to take on political correctness is an ally.
I think a lot of well known conservatives are coming around on this issue. You don't hear conservatives (Glenn Beck's comment being an exception) use the "religion of peace" phrase.
Bottom Line: Lets save the powder for the folks actively hurting the cause, rather than people who just haven't gotten as far along as we have.
Whomever said PC is worse than Islam is correct. Without PC, Islam wouldn't dare raise its 7th century bead. Defeat PC, and Islam has no chance to defeat the west in slow or fast Jihad.
So why aren't peaceful Muslims working AGAINST those who are doing violence in the name of Allah?
Because we don't know anybody who is! This story of a "terrorist threat" is a hoax, a fake, a media story of a lot of lies and a few small explosions. I guess the purpose of it was to achieve whatever it has achieved. And what it has achieved is widespread prejudice against Islam, increased surveillance and 'security' measures, loss of civil liberties, laws rushed through, increased police and army, increased government powers and increased government spending. So who has profited from "terrorism"? The western governments; they have seized many new powers from it and there is no benefit to anyone else. The laws are already in a position to impose a police state worldwide: isn't that a bit more plausible than your 'mad muslim' theory?
Maryam:
If this "terrorist threat" is a hoax, then what happened to the World Trade Center?
maryam:
So I guess a worldwide Caliphate is the way to go? Also, all those muslims blowing up trains and buses and flying planes into buildings are on the right track? Oh, I guess I'm just imagining it...
Why do you worship them as martyrs? What is Islamic in their actions?
Muslims worship Allah. They follow the example of the prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) who lived an exemplary life of goodness despite the disgusting propaganda you have ingested and regurgitate.
To be a martyr is a noble thing, in Christianity too, but to kill yourself is forbidden, and one year of prayers (ie, living life one year longer than a martyr) earns a higher reward than him (hadith). To revive a sunnah earns the reward of 100 shaheeds. That means if you eat with your right hand, sitting on the floor, instead of with cutlery at a table, you earn the reward of 200 shaheeds! This shows that being a shaheed is not such a great goal as you have been led to believe.
There is nothing Islamic in blowing themselves up or attacking innocent people. The very fact that it is so widely believed to be Islamic when it is blatantly not, demonstrates the presence of organised anti-Islamic propaganda.
If this "terrorist threat" is a hoax, then what happened to the World Trade Center?
As many non-muslim dvd's point out, the World Trade Centre was destroyed by your own government. You saw it, it was demolished. None of the details of its collapse are consistent with the official story but nobody believes a lie could be that big. They sacrificed a building and a few thousand people as part of staging the hoax. But look how much power they gained from it.
maryam,
You believe in the " nutty conspiracy theories stories" about how the WTC both went down? The ONLY way those two buildings were able to be taken down were by 2 large airplanes.
There is nothing Islamic in blowing themselves up or attacking innocent people. The very fact that it is so widely believed to be Islamic when it is blatantly not, demonstrates the presence of organised anti-Islamic propaganda.
Maryam:
Then why did Palestinians cheer when those planes hit the World Trade Center and the towers came crashing down? Why did Muslims attack the London transit system? How about the trains in Madrid? What about the Muslim who murdered Theo van Gogh? Why are Shiite and Sunni Muslims STILL carrying on about a succession argument that happened fourteen hundred years ago?
I never thought about Islam (it was just a religion) until the US became the Great Satan. Why was the US attacked repeatedly because we had people in Saudi Arabia? Why is no one allowed to enter Mecca who is not a Muslim? It existed before Mohammad was even born. It was never even an Arab-only city before he segregated it.
As for anti-Islamic propaganda: the Koran tells me everything. You never responded to the specific verses I cited. Why was a man under a death sentence for converting to Christianity? What about the fatwa issued by Khomeini against a novelist? Why are non-Muslims forced to live as second-class citizens in Muslim society? You and your co-religionists give me all the ammunition I need. I don't need to listen to propaganda. It's all in the Koran, honey.
Your responses here show your tunnel vision. You won't accept the truth about what is happening around you. If it's not Islamic to blow up innocent people, then why do Palestinian TERRORISTS make videos before they put on their suicide vests and board buses and enter restaurants?
Cling to your faith. It obviously gives you great comfort. Just remember: once they have done away with the rest of us, they'll come for you.
"maryam:
So I guess a worldwide Caliphate is the way to go? Also, all those muslims blowing up trains and buses and flying planes into buildings are on the right track? Oh, I guess I'm just imagining it..."
Stick to your capitalism if you like (though I doubt you can avoid the dictatorship your own government has arranged for you) but if you knew the true Islam you would prefer a worldwide Caliphate! And they know it, hence the phoney "terrorist threat".
Blowing up trains and buses is not allowed in Islam. And answer me this, how could blowing up trains and buses bring about a worldwide Caliphate? Has anyone been "won over" to this way of thinking by it? Has this alleged "enemy" achieved any tactical victory by it?
maryam,
Would you be suprised at the TRUTH on how the WTC Towers came down? Here is a URL that would distroy all this conspiracy theory nonsense once and fall all.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sunder.html
maryam,
Here is the rest of the NOVA website about how the WTC Towers fell and on rebuilding. This should be a good corrective.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
To sum it all up :
" All I learned about Islam I learned on September 11th, 2001".
End of quote.
maryam,
You believe in the " nutty conspiracy theories stories" about how the WTC both went down? The ONLY way those two buildings were able to be taken down were by 2 large airplanes.
Wrong. The towers were designed to withstand wind speeds greater than the force of plane impact. There was no reason for a steel frame building to crumple into a neat heap and no way it could happen without demolition. Those planes would have made a hole in the buildings and left them standing. Dont forget the same people own ALL the media and feed you ALL your "news". You have to look hard to locate truth.
maryam,
"Blowing up trains and buses is not allowed in Islam. And answer me this, how could blowing up trains and buses bring about a worldwide Caliphate? Has anyone been "won over" to this way of thinking by it? Has this alleged "enemy" achieved any tactical victory by it? "
Maybe more have started to see the true colors of Islam from not only the terror incidents, but also other stuff like the angry rioting during the Danish cartoons incident or after what Pope Benedict had said back last September quoting a Byzintine emperior on Muhammed.
PMK; I am sorry not to have been able to respond to your very pertinent points but I have been answering many of the shorter posts. Also it is 5 hours later here and the kids have wanted a go on the computer too, so I haven't been able to spend all night writing.
However, I'll make a start insha'Allah.
maryam,
The URLs I had posted had a respected engineer who had invetigated the process on how the towers came down did a very indepth study to prove the conspiracy folks wrong. These are the facts that what had happened was very unthinkable and was not forseen. NOVA is a very repected program and indepth. The facts just cannot be disputed. Case closed.
Hugh,
Thanks for your very indepth posts about maryam.
I reckon according to Denial D'Souza, it's all because of us gays. Damn I knew we would find the reason.
3,85 means Islam is the only religion Allah accepts. No other religion will count on the Day of judgement. If you want to please Allah, you have to worship Him in the way He specifies; Islam. If someone doesn't want to that's allowed, it's their choice, but in the hereafter they are warned they will be of the losers.
Maryam asks:
PRCS; What do you object to in Surah 5:38? And why do you think your brain capacity and wisdom will be greater than God's in the matter of human organisation (or in any matter)? And have you assessed the entire system of shari'a law?
Well, ya got me there. No, I haven't assessed the entire system of shari'a law.
I'm still working on amputating a fellow human being's hands, stoning people to death with the correct size stones, and murdering apostates, and not forcing my slave women into prostitution.
I'm not sure how much further I want to read, dear.
Assess it yourself. How did so many correct facts about nature and science get in there when such things were unknown then?
How does inheritance work in Islamic law?
When a man dies leaving 3 daughters, 2 parents and 1 wife. His daughters get 67%, his parents get 33% and his wife gets 12.5% which according to infidel knowledge equals 112.5%.
When a man leaves, 1 wife, 1 mother and 2 sisters, the mother gets 33%, the wife gets 25% and the sisters get 67%, which according to infidel math now equals 125%. (Sura 4:11-12,4:176)
Is wine good or bad?
Sura 5:90 refers to wine as Satan’s handiwork, yet Sura 47:15 claims that rivers of wine flow in paradise, Satan’s handiwork in paradise, how did it get there?
Heaven or Earth, what was created first?
Sura 2:29 claims Earth first, while Sura 79:27-30 claims that heaven was first.
Assess it for yourself.
Maryam needs to refill her medication ASAP.
"The towers imploded and were demolished."
Did you see any of the video?
BOTH TOWERS COLLAPSED AT THE POINT OF IMPACT WHERE YOUR FRIENDS CRASHED THE AIRCRAFT!!
How could you claim they were demolished?
When muslims talk they always lie as they are told to do in the koran. WE are just infidels and your book commands to kill, lie, kidnap, and ransom ALL NON BELIEVERS WHICH ARE US AND ALL OTHER NON-MUSLIMS.
How can that be misintrepted or misread.
You book has 134 verses commanding to commit crimes against non-muslims so how can you defend that?
You are muslim so I think I just answered all my questions, but I wanted just to ask out of habit.
PS. Do you also call the massacres of 183 Russian schoolchildren, the London train bombings, and the Spanish train bombings also all plots and conspiracies by western governments to make islam look bad?
We dont have to do it...muslims have been doing a great job themselves for centuries.
Truthfully, I flew to Kiev, Ukraine in March of 2001, and United Airlines went on Strike while I was in route to Dulles; my luggage went to Africa. Economic flights are the pits, but I managed to fly the Five Star Agreements which put me on Lufthunsa just in time...only an hour late. The whole way there and back, all I could say was, "damn, this is messed up !" I could only wonder why I wasn't killed ? What a vacation?
I landed back at Dulles; on the tarmat; no customs inspection, no request for an affidavit (that I wasn't smuggling anything). I kissed the ground saying, "thank God, I came back in one piece!" AN IDIOT COULD WALK RIGHT THROUGH OUR COUNTRY ! It wasn't Left or Right, it was AMERICA; "hell, let it go and let the law sort-em out!" By September, everyone knew it all had to come to an end.
3.110]
If christians and jews had believed in Islam they would be better off, both in this world and the next, because they would live happily and earn heaven through a life of worship.
3;156 This is about the muslims speaking of the muslims. The ones that stayed behind and avoided fighting in the battle said to eachother, 'if only our friends had stayed behind they would still be alive' The ones that stayed behind are referred to as those who disbelieve.
Is wine good or bad?
Sura 5:90 refers to wine as Satan’s handiwork, yet Sura 47:15 claims that rivers of wine flow in paradise, Satan’s handiwork in paradise, how did it get there?
On Earth we have to pray 5 times a day. Not to do so is a terrible sin. In heaven no prayers are required of us.
On Earth wine is forbidden to muslims. The Qur'an says it has good and bad in it but mostly bad. In heaven the 'wine' is part of the delights there; the Qur'an says it does not intoxicate.
Yankeedoodle, I am Muslim, and as far from a Zionist as it is possible to get. Zionists are a magic cult from before Judaism. They hid amongst the Jews and corrupted them from their pure monotheistic faith at the time of Moses alayhis salam. They are still with us today in positions of great power in all governments. They have amassed all the gold and most of the wealth of the world. They own all the media, and are behind this staged "terror threat". This very website is sponsored/encouraged/permitted as part of their hate-fest against Islam and you all obey! Their aim is to instate their leader to rule the world and they've nearly done it already. You are just as much their victim as I am, and you will be ruled in a Police State and have no rights along with me, however Allah wills.
"I`ve been researching this for four years." - D'Souza
And so little to show for it.
I don’t mind a dilettante. But what bothers me is a dilettante that doesn’t know his ignorance. Four years and that's all he has to show for it!
Wrong. The towers were designed to withstand wind speeds greater than the force of plane impact. There was no reason for a steel frame building to crumple into a neat heap and no way it could happen without demolition. Those planes would have made a hole in the buildings and left them standing. Dont forget the same people own ALL the media and feed you ALL your "news". You have to look hard to locate truth.
planes are 2x as big,and carry 2x as much fuel in them,now a days,than when the towers were built.so no,they were not built to with stand a hit from a plane that size.when the first floors went,and it took more and more floors,the weight of it came straight down,that just the laws of gravity.but maybe they are differant in the flat-earth the koran talks about.
Patriot8:
You are right about the force of the impact, but absolutely wrong on your broader point.
The HEAT from the explosion softed the metal so that it collapsed. It was not the force of the impact from the planes that toppled the buildings ---- the towers were still standing for quite some time after the impact.
IT WAS THE HEAT FROM THE EXPLOSIONS!!!
Intense heat removes the strength from virtually any material if you can get it hot enough. The structural weakness kicks in at significantly lower temperatures than the melting temperature.
I should add that like any fire with combustable materials at hand, the temperature was hotter 30 minutes than it was at the time of impact. The fire and heat were spreading. The stress on the building cause by heat is enhanced by the exposure over time. Metal is an excellent conductor of heat. The metal at the base of the buildings heated up to a point where they buckled from the aggregate stress.
The key point was that all of the hijacked planes had full fuel tanks. A smaller plane with the same size fuel tank could have caused the same result. Conversely, larger planes with less fuel would have done less damage.
Bottom Line: Never underestimate the power of heat. The Sun is after all the most powerful object in our solar system.
ENOUGH OF THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES. If you want to believe in them, take some engineering classes in mechanics of materials first, and then write back.
I'm as happy to obey the Zionists as you are to obey Mohammed and his fraudulent creation Allah.
Any other Zionists out there? I command you to command me....
sincerely
Hindu Zionist
How has it come to pass that this "Maryam" has managed to dominate practically this entire post. Ugh!!!
Indeed.....just like the phoney "Crusades" and phoney "Palestinian/Kashmiri/Chechen conflicts" and the phoney "Iraq war", all engineered for the sake of stirring up the ummah (after all, who else would benefit from such unified angst?) by that phoney "Arafat", that phoney "Khomeini", and that phoney "Saddam" (who, btw, never really died in that phoney "execution"). All "war" footage was shot on site in the deserts of Yemen and later doctored by that gov't-sponsored Qatari film studio, al-jizz. You knew that, didn't you?
But yes, those twin towers...they were indeed brought down by controlled demolition. You see, recent evidence has surfaced that 4000 Muslim WTC employees (who curiously happened to be missing on 9/11) stayed behind the night of 9/10 to rig the buildings with C40 and semtex, after everyone had gone home for the day (video expose coming to a YouTube near you).
Try and "prove" otherwise, maryam.
maryam is not someone worthy of responding to. Completely bogus spewing is all she does.
Hungarian Crusader,
I posted information that even the must hardened conspiracy theory nut could not even deny. Yet maryam thinks maryam I am brainedwashed. Good grief, maryam is the crazy one.
That is information about how the WTC Towers fell.
Gee, Maryam,
I hope you'll return.
I'd like to know why Big Al told ole'Mo the sun sets in a mud puddle. I would've thoght that, siting in a throne affording him an unobstructed view of the cosmos, he'd be better informed.
I'm sure you have a rational explanation.
Here is one comment about wine from the Bible, which in itself is neither good nor bad, it is a manner on HOW a person handles it, which is to handle it in a responsible manner. Since wine comes from grapes and God made the grapes, then since when wine is used in a proper manner, for example in Christian worship services, then it is a blessing from God.
From the Bible :
"Psalm 104:14-16 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
14 He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:
15 wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.
16 The trees of the LORD are well watered,
the cedars of Lebanon that he planted. "
Remember also that the first miracle that Jesus performed took place at a wedding reception and it was to make new wine. This shows that God Blesses not only marriage and family life, but joyful celibrations in a responsible manner.
Hugh:
Isn't the time up yet?
It gets so tiring . . .
CGW
Thank-you Glen Beck for a job well done!
IT WAS THE HEAT FROM THE EXPLOSIONS!!!
Intense heat removes the strength from virtually any material if you can get it hot enough. The structural weakness kicks in at significantly lower temperatures than the melting temperature.
Posted by: JSobieski
i know they fell from the heat,thats what i meant when said the planes held 2x as much fuel
The noble Careen
5.51 O ye who believe! take not the Moslems for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust (Moslems)
2:79 But woe to the Moslems who faked the Qur’an and say, `This is from God,' so that they might earn some profit thereby.' And woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn from it.
3:67 Abraham was not a Moslem; but he was a true Jew.
3:85 If anyone desires the religion of Mohammadanism, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who are losers."
3:87 Of such the reward is that on them Moslems the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all men, all together. In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty of doom be lightened.
4:55 Sufficient for the Moslem is the Flaming Fire!
5:41 Or it be among the Moslems, men who will listen to any lie. They change the context of the words from their (right) times and places.... For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.
Just had seen information about the new World Financial Center going up in Shanghi, China which is set to open up in 2008. The same man that helped designed the WTC is working to making sure that all the bells and whistles in safety features are added in, it will be among the safetest. Also take into consideration what we know how China takes care of any Islamofacists that try to attack that country so this is why large buildings like this one is possible.
I nominate DiNesh D'Souza for Dhimmi of the Year.
It is some consept the Muslims have about Heaven. At least for men. An eternity of Booze and Broads and Blood. Kinda makes ya want to blow yourself up!
Just where do Women fit in to Paradise? Some where other than just between the Sheets?
I think Allah is really stupid or incredably lazy to get Man to pass Judgement fo him.
One down, 149,999,999 Pillow Cases to go.
"However, Glenn's big announcement earlier this year that, "Islam is Peaceful; only a small minority of extremists have hijacked the faith..." still sticks in my craw. Hopefully it was just lip-service for his liberal bosses at CNN."
Posted by: Xero G at January 19, 2007 02:37 PM
Xero G,
Agreed. That was a defining statement for me as well, and I usually try remind every one on JW/DW of that when Beck is mentioned here.
That being said, his interview with D'Souza on the very same day he was a main topic here on JW was encouraging. His "treatment" of Mr. D'Souza was quite direct and appropriate, so I must give him his due credit on this occasion.
DP111,,
Let us suppose the answer to that ["Is Islam itself the main source of the problem of dangerous Muslims?"] is a Yes. What next? No one in the public eye has proposed anything sustantive.
Once that answer becomes normative in the West, the "what next" will be easy. Not "easy" in the sense that it will not take a lot of labor and complex management; but easy in the sense that it will not be undercut, resisted, and hampered at every step by extraneous factors.
No one in the public eye has proposed anything substantive because they (and most of their ordinary constituents) are still beholden to the extraneous factors -- and to the dominant and mainstream PC Multiculturalism that ideologically maintains those extraneous factors -- that hamper our rational self-defense.
Take a simple example. The radical Muslims have been around since the 1920s.
As I wrote to NRO, and as someone for whom D'Souza's Illiberal Education played a big role in turning me to the right, I am frankly stunned by the ignorance of his argument--that's just one example.. Ignorance not as invective, not as mudslinging--the man does not know what he is talking about.
Chris Fotox,
The question becomes; how can such an otherwise knowledgeable fellow be so uninformed?
And after his Beck encounter, will he begin to question his conclusions, or will he revel in the fawning attention of other celebrities who don't know enough about the subject to challenge him?
"The HEAT from the explosion softed the metal so that it collapsed."
Untrue, there was very little combustible material in the offices, and jetfuel burns at a significantly lower temperature than that required to challenge the structural integrity of steel. Furthermore, you know you can hold a red hot poker at the other end, and you know you can sit on one end of a steel girder while the other end is melted; heat conduction isn't THAT efficient in metal!
However, I can see you are not a forum open to new ideas so feel free to leave uninvestigated any facts which don't fit in with your belief system.
Untrue, there was very little combustible material in the offices..~ posted above
That’s right, office’s full of millions of sheets of paper and jet fuel don’t burn !
You cant possibly be that ignorant, can you?
Is that the level of intelligence that is required to follow Mohammad?
greatcometof1536 7.30
"....a group of madmen wanting to kill us becuase we don't accept their prophet..."
Is that what you think? Is that what you really think? All of you? NO! A thousand times NO, this is NOT IN ISLAM, not true, there is NO group that thinks this except YOU.
The best way to dispel lies is with truth.
If you care about the truth: find it.
Find out what MUSLIMS believe about the Prophet Muhammed. Do this by speaking to a knowledgeable muslim (if you can find one) or reading a book (there are thousands) that extols Prophet Muhammed's (peace be upon him) virtues
Try an Islamic bookshop.
Bar;
How long does it take to burn a sheet of paper? Not long. And how hot does it get? Not very. Do you think burning paper and smouldering plastic melted the giant steel girders into uniform lengths? What little there was to burn burnt out quickly. The jet fuel burnt hottest but NOT HOT ENOUGH AND NOT FOR LONG. This stuff is proved with OVERWHELMING evidence if you don't believe it that's up to you.
It's strange, by English and by Islamic standards you Americans are sometimes very rude and insulting, but I feel very fond of all you here at Jihadwatch.
maryam,
This will suprise you because it does come from Islamic sources. It does speak in reference to Islam and terror. Best to go online to do research because it is fast and easy plus excellent sources out there.
"Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
Qur'an:8:57 "If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned."
Ishaq:326 "If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah's enemies."
Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land."
Ishaq:588 "When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves."
Tabari IX:42 "We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized."
Ishaq:326 "Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.' Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.'"
Ishaq:327 "Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"
Qur'an:7:3 "Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them."
Ishaq:510 "When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his Companions, ‘O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into error they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.' He used to say this of every town he raided."
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear] near Khaybar when it was still dark. He said, ‘Allahu-Akbar!' [Allah is Greatest] Khaybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned.' Then the inhabitants came out running on their roads. The Prophet had their men killed; their children and woman were taken as captives."
Bukhari:V9B87N127 "The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.'"
Ishaq:517 "Khaybar was stormed by the Apostle's squadron, fully armed, powerful and strong. It brought certain humiliation with Muslim men in its midst. We attacked and they met their doom. Muhammad conquered the Jews in fighting that day as they opened their eyes to our dust."
Tabari VIII:116
Ishaq:511 "So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself."
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive."
Tabari VIII:129 "After the Messenger had finished with the Khaybar Jews, Allah cast terror into the hearts of the Jews in Fadak when they received news of what Allah had brought upon Khaybar. Fadak became the exclusive property of Allah's Messenger."
Tabari VIII:133 "The raiding party went to Tha'labah. One of Muhammad's slaves, said, ‘Prophet, I know where Tha'labah can be taken by surprise.' So Muhammad sent him with 130 men. They raided the town and drove off camels and sheep, bringing them back to Medina."
Tabari VIII:138 "Muhammad carried arms, helmets, and spears. He led a hundred horses, appointing Bahir to be in charge of the weapons and Maslamah to be in charge of the horses. When the Quraysh received word of this, it frightened them."
Qur'an:33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."
Qur'an:59:2 "It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning…they shall taste the torment of Fire."
Qur'an:33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering."
Tabari VIII:143 "In this year a twenty-four man raiding party led by Shuja went to the Banu Amir. He launched a raid on them and took camels and sheep. The shares of booty came to fifteen camels for each man. Also a raid led by Amr went to Dhat. He set out with fifteen men. He encountered a large force whom he summoned to Islam. They refused to respond so he killed all of them."
Bukhari:V4B52N256 "The Prophet passed by and was asked whether it was permissible to attack infidels at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, ‘Their women and children are from them.'"
Tabari IX:20 "The captives of Hunayn, along with their possessions, were brought to the Messenger. He ordered that their captives, animals, and their possessions be taken to Ji'ranah and held there in custody."
Ishaq:576 "Allah and His servant overwhelmed every coward. Allah honored us and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all. Allah humiliated them in the worship of Satan. By what our Apostle recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the punishment the infidels received. Killing them was sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle's squadron advanced into the fray."
Ishaq:580 "Our strong warriors obey his orders to the letter. By us Allah's religion is undeniably strong. You would think when our horses gallop with bits in their mouths that the sounds of demons are among them. The day we trod down the unbelievers there was no deviation or turning from the Apostle's order. During the battle the people heard our exhortations to fight and the smashing of skulls by swords that sent heads flying. We severed necks with a warrior's blow. Often we have left the slain cut to pieces and a widow crying alas over her mutilated husband. 'Tis Allah, not man we seek to please."
Tabari IX:122 "Muhammad sent Uyaynah to raid The Banu Anbar. They killed some people and took others captive. Asma was one of the women taken prisoner."
Tabari IX:123 "Muhammad sent an expedition to Ghalib and to the land of the Banu Murrah. The raid on Amr and Abi was sent to the valley of Idam. Another by Aslami was sent to Ghabah. And Abd al-Rahman was ordered by the Messenger to lead an army to the seashore."
Tabari IX:69 "He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for those who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing them is a small matter to us."
Bukhari:V5B59N516 "When Allah's Apostle fought or raided people we raised our voices saying, ‘Allahu-Akbar! Allahu-Akbar! None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.'"
Tabari VII:10 "In Ramadhan, seven months after the Hijrah, Muhammad entrusted a white war banner to Hamzah with the command of thirty Emigrants. Their aim was to intercept a Quraysh caravan."
Ishaq:281 "The Raid on Waddan was the first Maghazi [invasion]. The Expedition of Harith was second. They encountered a large number of Quraysh in the Hijaz. Abu Bakr composed a poem about the raid: ‘When we called them to the truth they turned their backs and howled like bitches. Allah's punishment on them will not tarry. I swear by the Lord of Camels [Allah?] that I am no perjurer. A valiant band will descend upon the Quraysh which will leave women husbandless. It will leave men dead, with vultures wheeling round. It will not spare the infidels.'"
Ishaq:285 "Then the Apostle went raiding in the month of Rabi u'l-Awwal making for the Quraysh. Then he raided the Quraysh by way of Dinar."
Tabari VII:11 "In this year the Messenger entrusted to Sa'd a white war banner for the expedition to Kharrar. Sa'd said, ‘I set out on foot at the head of twenty men. We used to lie hidden by day and march at night, until we reached Kharrar on the fifth morning. The caravan had arrived in town a day before. There were sixty men with it."
Tabari VII:11 "The Messenger of Allah went out on a raid as far as Waddan, searching for Quraysh."
Tabari VII:15 "Expeditions Led by Allah's Messenger: In this year, according to all Sira writers, the Messenger personally led the Ghazwa of Alwa. [A Ghazwa is an Islamic Invasion in Allah's Cause consisting of an army unit led by the Prophet himself.] He left Sa'd in command of Medina. On this raid his banner was carried by Hamzah. He stayed out for fifteen days and then returned to Medina. The Messenger went on a Ghazwa at the head of two hundred of his companions in October, 623 and reached Buwat. His intention was to intercept a Quraysh caravan with a hundred men and twenty-five hundred camels."
Ishaq:286 "Meanwhile the Apostle sent Sa'd on the raid of Abu Waqqas. The Prophet only stayed a few nights in Medina before raiding Ushayra and then Kurz."
Bukhari:V5B57N51 "The Apostle said, ‘Tomorrow I will give the flag to a man whose leadership Allah will use to grant a Muslim victory."
Bukhari:V5B59N569 "I fought in seven Ghazwat battles along with the Prophet and fought in nine Maghazi raids in armies dispatched by the Prophet."
Bukhari:V5B57N74 "I heard Sa'd saying, ‘I was the first Arab to shoot an arrow in Allah's Cause.'"
Bukhari:V5B59N401 "Allah's Wrath became severe on anyone the Prophet killed in Allah's Cause."
Bukhari:V5B59N456 "Muhammad led the Fear Prayer [Allahu Akbar!] with one batch of his army while the other (batch) faced the enemy."
Bukhari:V5B59N440 "Allah's Apostle used to say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped except Allah Alone because He honored His Warriors and made His Messenger victorious. He defeated the clans; so there is nothing left.'"
Ishaq:287 "The Muslim raiders consulted one another concerning them. One of the Muslims said, ‘By Allah, if we leave these people alone, they will get into the sacred territory and will be safely out of our reach. If we kill them we will have killed in the sacred month.'"
Tabari VII:19 "They hesitated and were afraid to advance, but then they plucked up courage and agreed to kill as many as they could and to seize what they had with them. Waqid shot an arrow at Amr and killed him. Uthman and al-Hakam surrendered. Then Waqid and his companions took the caravan and the captives back to Allah's Apostle in Medina. This was the first booty taken by the Companions of Muhammad."
Ishaq:289 "Our lances drank of Amr's blood and lit the flame of war."
Tabari VII:20
Ishaq:287 "Abd Allah told his Companions, ‘A fifth of the booty we have taken belongs to the Apostle.' This was before Allah made surrendering a fifth of the booty taken a requirement."
Tabari VII:20
Ishaq:288 "The Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad and his Companions have violated the sacred month, shed blood, seized property, and taken men captive.' The polytheists spread lying slander concerning him, saying, ‘Muhammad claims that he is following obedience to Allah, yet he is the first to violate the holy month and to kill our people.'"
Ishaq:288 "When the Qur'an:passage concerning this matter was revealed, and Allah relieved Muslims from their fear and anxiety, Muhammad took possession of the caravan and prisoners. The Quraysh sent him a ransom and the Prophet released the prisoners on payment. When the Qur'an:authorization came down to Muhammad, Abd Allah and his Companions were relieved and they became anxious for an additional reward. They said, ‘Will this raid be counted as part of the reward promised to Muslim combatants?' So Allah sent down this Qur'an: ‘Those who believe and have fought in Allah's Cause may receive Allah's mercy.' Allah made the booty permissible. He divided the loot, awarding four-fifths to the men He had allowed to take it. He gave one-fifth to His Apostle."
Ishaq:288 "Allah divided the booty stolen from the first caravan after he made spoils permissible. He gave four-fifths to those He had allowed to take it and one-fifth to His Apostle."
Tabari VII:29
Ishaq:289 "The Apostle heard that Abu Sufyan [a Meccan merchant] was coming from Syria with a large caravan containing their money and their merchandise. He was accompanied by only thirty men."
Ishaq:289 "Muhammad summoned the Muslims and said, ‘This is the Quraysh caravan containing their property. Go out and attack it. Perhaps Allah will give it to us as prey."
Tabari VII:29 "Abu Sufyan and the horsemen of the Quraysh were returning from Syria following the coastal road. When Allah's Apostle heard about them he called his companions together and told them of the wealth they had with them and the fewness of their numbers. The Muslims set out with no other object than Sufyan and the men with him. They did not think that this raid would be anything other than easy booty."
Bukhari:V5B59N702 "Allah did not admonish anyone who had not participated in the Ghazwa [raid] of Badr, for in fact, Allah's Apostle had only gone out in search of the Quraysh caravan so that he could rob it. But Allah arranged for the Muslims and their enemy to meet by surprise. I was at the Aqaba pledge with Allah's Apostle when we gave our lives in submission, but the Badr battle is more popular amongst the people. I was never stronger or wealthier than I was when I followed the Prophet on a Ghazwa.'"
Tabari VII:29 "They did not suppose that there would be a great battle. Concerning this Allah revealed a Qur'an: Qur'an:8:7 ‘Behold! Allah promised you that one of the two parties would be yours. You wished for the unarmed one, but Allah willed to justify His truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the unbelievers.'"
Tabari VII:29 "When Abu Sufyan heard that Muhammad's Companions were on their way to intercept his caravan, he sent a message to the Quraysh. ‘Muhammad is going to attack our caravan, so protect your merchandise.' When the Quraysh heard this, the people of Mecca hastened to defend their property and protect their men as they were told Muhammad was lying in wait for them."
Ishaq:290 "Some Meccans got up to circumambulate the Ka'aba…. Sitting around the mosque, they wondered why they had allowed this evil rascal to attack their men."
Ishaq:292 "Setting out in Ramadhan, Muhammad was preceded by two black flags. His companions had seventy camels."
Tabari VII:38 "I have been informed by authorities that Muhammad set out on 3 Ramadhan at the head of 310 of his companions. The war banner of the Messenger was carried by Ali. The banner of the Ansar was carried by Sa'd."
Ishaq:293
Tabari VII:30 "The prophet marched forward and spent the night near Badr with his Companions. While the Prophet was standing in prayer [asking Allah to help him steal] some Quraysh water-carriers came to the well. Among these was a black slave. Muhammad's men seized him and brought him to the Messenger's bivouac. They ordered him to salute Allah's Apostle. Then they questioned him about Abu Sufyan. When the slave began to tell them about the protecting force, it was unwelcome news, for the only object of their raid was the caravan."
Tabari VII:30 "Meanwhile the Prophet was praying, bowing and prostrating himself, and also seeing and hearing the treatment of the slave. They beat him severely and continued to interrogate him but they found that he had no knowledge of what they were looking for."
Ishaq:294 "The Apostle was afraid the Ansar would not feel obliged to help him fight without the enemy being the aggressor and attacking in Medina. Sa'd said, ‘We hear and obey. We are experienced in war, trustworthy in combat. Allah will let us show you something that will bring you joy. The Apostle was delighted at Sa'd's words which greatly encouraged him. Muhammad shouted, ‘It is as if I see the enemy lying prostrate.'"
Tabari VII:32 "When the Quraysh advanced, Muhammad threw dust in the direction of their faces, and Allah put them to flight.… The Meccan [merchant] force and the Prophet's [pirates] met and Allah gave victory to His Messenger, shamed the unbelievers, and satisfied the Muslims' thirst for revenge."
Ishaq:297 "When the Apostle saw them he cried, ‘Allah, they called me a liar. Destroy them this morning.'"
Bukhari:V5B59N330
Ishaq:300 "Here is Gabriel holding the rein of a horse and leading the charge. He is equipped with his weapons and ready for the battle. There is dust upon his front teeth."
Bukhari:V5B59N327 "Gabriel came to the Prophet and said, ‘How do you view the warriors of Badr?' The Prophet said, ‘I see the fighters as the best Muslims.' On that, Gabriel said, ‘And so are the Angels who are participating in the Badr battle.'"
Tabari VII:55 "Mihaja, the mawla [slave] of Umar [the future Caliph] was struck by an arrow and killed. He was the first Muslim to die."
Tabari VII:55 "Allah's Messenger went out to his men and incited them to fight. He promised, ‘Every man may keep all the booty he takes.' Then Muhammad said, ‘By Allah, if any man fights today and is killed fighting aggressively, going forward and not retreating, Allah will cause him to enter Paradise.' Umayr, who was holding some dates in his hand and eating them, said, ‘Fine, fine. This is excellent! Nothing stands between me and my entering Paradise except to be killed by these people!' He threw down the dates, seized his sword, and fought until he was slain."
Tabari VII:56 "‘Messenger of Allah, what makes the Lord laugh with joy at his servant?' He replied, ‘When he plunges his hand into the midst of an enemy without armor.' So Auf took off the coat of mail he was wearing and threw it away. Then he took his sword and fought the enemy until he was killed."
Ishaq:301 "Muhammad picked up a handful of pebbles and faced the Quraysh. He shouted, ‘May their faces be deformed!' He threw the pebbles at them and ordered his companions to attack. The foe was routed. Allah killed Quraysh chiefs and caused many of their nobles to be taken captive. While the Muslims were taking prisoners, the Messenger was in his hut."
Bukhari:V5B59N290 "The Prophet said, ‘The believers who failed to join the Ghazwa of Badr and those who took part in it are not equal in reward."
Bukhari:V5B59N333 "Az-Zubair said, ‘I attacked him with my spear and pierced his eye. I put my foot over his body to pull the weapon out, but even then I had to use great force. Later on Allah's Apostle asked me for that spear and I gave it to him.'"
Ishaq:301 "As the Muslims were laying their hands on as many prisoners as they could catch, the Prophet, saw disapproval in the face of Sa'd. He said, ‘Why are you upset by the taking of captives?' Sa'd replied, ‘This was the first defeat inflicted by Allah on the infidels. Slaughtering the prisoners would have been more pleasing to me than sparing them.'"
Tabari VII:59 "On the day of Badr I passed Umayyah as he was standing with his son Ali, holding his hand. I had with me some coats of mail which I had taken as plunder. Umayyah said, ‘Abd al-Ilah, would you like to take me as a prisoner? I will be more valuable to you as a captive to be ransomed than the coats of mail that you are carrying.' I said, ‘Yes. Come here then.' I flung away the armor and bound Umayyah and his son Ali, taking them with me. Muslims encircled us. Then they restrained us physically. One of the Muslims drew his sword and struck Ali in the leg, severing it so that he fell down. Umayyah gave a scream the like of which I have never heard. I said, ‘Save yourself, for there is no escape for your son. By Allah, I cannot save him from these men.' Then the Muslims hacked Ali to pieces. Abd al-Rahman used to say, ‘May Allah have mercy on Bial [a slave turned Muslim marauder]! I lost my coats of mail, and he deprived me of my captives.'"
Bukhari:V5B59N297 "The Prophet faced the Ka'aba and invoked evil on the Quraysh people."
Bukhari: V5B59N397 "Allah's Apostle raised his head after bowing the first Rak'a of the morning prayer. He said, ‘O Allah! Curse so-and-so and so-and-so.' After he had invoked evil upon them, Allah revealed: ‘Your Lord will send thousands of angels riding upon chargers sweeping down as a form of good tidings to reassure you that victory comes from Him. He will cut off parts of the unbelievers, overthrow them, and turn them back in frustration. For Allah is forgiving and kind.'"
Ishaq:303 "A cousin and I mounted a hill from which we could overlook Badr and see who would be defeated, so that we could join in the plundering afterwards. I was pursuing one of the Meccan polytheists in order to smite him, when his head suddenly fell off before my sword touched him. Then I knew that someone other than I had killed him."
Tabari VII:61 "When the Prophet had finished with his enemy, he gave orders that Abu Jahl should be found among the dead. He said, ‘O Allah, do not let him escape!' The first man who encountered Abu Jahl yelled out and I made him my mark. When he was within my reach, I attacked him and struck him a blow which severed his foot and half his leg. By Allah, when it flew off I could only compare it to a date-stone which flies out of a crusher when it is struck. Then his son hit me on the shoulder and cut off my arm. It dangled at my side from a piece of skin. The fighting prevented me from reaching him after that. I fought the whole day, dragging my arm behind me. When it began to hurt me, I put my foot on it and stood until I pulled it off.'"
Ishaq:304 "Abd Allah bin Mas'ud said, ‘I found Abu Jahl in the throws of death. I put my foot on his neck because he had grabbed me once at Mecca and had hurt me. Then I said, Has Allah disgraced you and put you to shame, O enemy of Allah?' ‘In what way has he disgraced me?' he asked. ‘Am I anything more important than a man whom you have killed?'"
Bukhari:V5B59N298 "Abu Jahl said, ‘You should not be proud that you have killed me.'"
Ishaq:304
Tabari VII:62 "I cut off Abu Jahl's head and brought it to the Messenger. ‘O Allah's Prophet, this is the head of the enemy of Allah.' Muhammad said, ‘Praise be to Allah.'"
Ishaq:305 "Ukkasha fought until he broke his sword. He came to the Apostle who gave him a wooden cudgel telling him to fight with that. He brandished it and it became a brilliant weapon. Allah gave him victory while he wielded it. He took that weapon with him to every raid he fought with Allah's Apostle until he was killed in the rebellion. These were his dying words: ‘What do you think about when you kill people? Are these not men just because they are not Muslims?'"
Ishaq:315 "It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting. I swear we shall never lack soldiers, nor army leaders. Driving before us infidels until we subdue them with a halter above their noses and a branding iron. We will drive them to the ends of the earth. We will pursue them on horse and on foot. We will never deviate from fighting in our cause. We will bring upon the infidels the fate of the Ad and Jurhum. Any people that disobey Muhammad will pay for it. If you do not surrender to Islam, then you will live to regret it. You will be shamed in Hell, forced to wear a garment of molten pitch forever!"
Ishaq:310 "A Meccan said, ‘As soon as we were confronted by the raiding party, we turned our backs and they started killing and capturing us at their pleasure. Some of our men turned tail humiliated. Allah smote some of us with pustules from which we died.'"
Ishaq:311 "When the Quraysh began to bewail their dead, consumed in sorrow, one said, ‘Do not do this for Muhammad and his companions will rejoice over our misfortune.'"
Ishaq:340 "Surely Badr was one of the world's great wonders. The roads to death are plain to see. Disobedience causes a people to perish. They became death's pawns. We had sought their caravan, nothing else. But they came to us and there was no way out. So we thrust our shafts and swung our swords severing their heads. Our swords glittered as they killed. The banner of error was held by Satan. He betrayed the evil ones, those prone to treachery. He led them to death crying, ‘Fear Allah. He is invincible!' On that day a thousand spirits were mustered on excited white stallions. Allah's army fought with us. Under our banner, Gabriel attacked and killed them."
Ishaq:341 "Allah favored His Apostle and humiliated the unbelievers. They were put to shame in captivity and death. The Apostle's victory was glorious. Its message is plain for all to see. The Lord brought repeated calamities upon the pagans, bringing them under the Apostle's power. Allah's angry army smote them with their trusty swords. Many a lusty youngster left the enemy lying prone. Their women wept with burning throats for the dead were lying everywhere. But now they are all in Hell."
Ishaq:342 "I wonder at foolish men like these who sing frivolously and vainly of the slain at Badr. This was nothing more than an impious and odious crime. Men fought against their brothers, fathers, and sons. Any with discernment and understanding recognize the wrong that was done here."
Ishaq:344 "I wonder at Allah's deed. None can defeat Him. Evil ever leads to death. We unsheathed our swords and testified to the unity of Allah, and we proved that His Apostle brought truth. We smote them and they scattered. The impious met death. They became fuel for Hell. All who aren't Muslims must go there. It will consume them while the Stoker [Allah] increases the heat. They had called Allah's Apostle a liar. They claimed, ‘You are nothing but a sorcerer.' So Allah destroyed them."
Ishaq:348 "They retreated in all directions. They rejected the Qur'an:and called Muhammad a liar. But Allah cursed them to make his religion and Apostle victorious. They lay still in death. Their throats were severed. Their foreheads embraced the dust. Their nostrils were defiled with filth. Many a noble, generous man we slew this day. We left them as meat for the hyenas. And later, they shall burn in the fires of Hell."
Ishaq:349 "The battle will tell the world about us. Distant men will heed our warning. The infidels may cut off my leg, yet I am a Muslim. I will exchange my life for one with virgins fashioned like the most beautiful statues."
Ishaq:357 "Their leaders were left prostrate. Their heads were sliced off like melons. Many an adversary have I left on the ground to rise in pain, broken and plucked. When the battle was joined I dealt them a vicious blow. Their arteries cried aloud, their blood flowed."
Ishaq:308 "Muhammad halted on a sandhill and divided the booty Allah had given him. They congratulated him on the victory Allah had granted. But one of the warriors replied, ‘What are you congratulating us about? We only met some bald old women like the sacrificial camels who are hobbled, and we slaughtered them!' The Apostle smiled because he knew that description fit ."
Tabari VII:81 "The next day I went to the Prophet. He was sitting with Abu Bakr, and they were weeping. I said, ‘O Messenger of Allah, tell me, what has made you weep? If I find cause to weep, I will weep with you, and if not, I will pretend to weep because you are weeping.' The Prophet said, ‘It is because of the taking of ransoms. It was laid before me that I should punish them instead.' Allah revealed: ‘It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land.' After that Allah made booty lawful for them."
Tabari VII:98 "The Messenger ordered Zayd [the prophet's former slave turned adoptive son] out on a raid in which he captured a Quraysh caravan led by Abu Sufyan at a watering place in Najd.… A number of their merchants set out with a large amount of silver since this was the main part of their merchandise. They hired a man to guide them along this route. Zayd captured the caravan and its goods but was unable to capture the men. He brought the caravan to the Prophet."[If this isn't piracy and terror the words need to be redefined.]"
Tabari VII:98 "The reason for this expedition was the Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad has damaged our trade, and sits astride our road. If we stay in Mecca we will consume our capital.' …The news of the caravan reached the Prophet, as did the information that it contained much wealth and silver vessels. Zayd therefore intercepted it and made himself master of their caravan. The fifth (khums) was twenty thousand dirhams; Allah's Apostle took it and divided the other four fifths among the members of the raiding party. Furat was taken captive. They said to him. ‘If you accept Islam the Messenger will not kill you.'"
Qur'an:3:150 "Soon We shall strike terror into the hearts of the Infidels, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be in the Fire!"
Ishaq:395 "Muslims, if you listen to the unbelievers you will retreat from the enemy and become losers. Ask Allah for victory and do not retreat, withdrawing from His religion. ‘We will terrorize those who disbelieve. In that way I will help you against them.'"
Qur'an:33:9 "O ye who believe! Remember the Grace of Allah, on you, when there came down an army. But We sent against them a hurricane and forces that ye saw not. Behold! They came on you from above you and from below you, and behold, the eyes became dim and the hearts gaped up to the throats, stupefied with terror, and ye imagined various vain thoughts about Allah!"
Ishaq:461 "Muhammad besieged them for twenty-five nights. When the siege became too severe for them, Allah terrorized them. Then they were told to submit."
"maryam,
This will suprise you..."
The only thing that surprises me is that you think you know what all that means.
Perhaps not the only thing; it surprises me more that you think you know what these passages mean TO MUSLIMS.
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear]
Fajr is morning prayer, it can be prayed in the 2 hours before sunrise. There is no prayer of fear.
Where did you get this from?
I have heard of Bukhari and Tabari but not Ishaq.
Muslims do not refer to hadith and decide on their interpretation as you are doing.
In Islam we get up in the night to pray. We visit the sick, give food to neighbours, and respect our parents, teachers and elders. It is an unselfish, kindly way of life and we do these things to please our Creator who has told us how to live together with peace and mercy. No suicide, no killing, why do the capitalists not allow muslims to flood the network with the truly peaceful nature of Islam?
That would separate the "jihadists" from mainstream Islam pretty effectively wouldn't it?
That would stop them claiming to be part of Islam and make sure no muslim joined them wouldn't it?
I'll tell you why; because they made up this "enemy" and they NEED the illusion to continue. Why? Perhaps because it makes you easier to rule: you let them do what they like when you think there is an enemy to fear. Probably because if you got a glimpse of true Islam with an open mind, most of you would choose to convert and demand sharia law. Then all those made rich and powerful by capitalism would no longer be rich and powerful. Pretty good incentive for the rich and powerful to try to discredit Islam eh? Bit more convincing than "small unknown group aspire to rule world with occasional small explosions"?
You don't have to convert to Islam. But do convert to seeking truth.
Islamic infidel PLEASE STOP SHOVELING ALL THAT CRAP!!
YOU need to give up the illusion that islam is peaceful to people everywhere.
Your kind even kill each other when it is sunni vs. shia and shia vs sunni.
How do you expect us in the free-civilized world to trust your kind when you are killing each other because various muslims are in different sects of islam? What hope is there for Christians or others in islam....none.
I have seen TRUE ISLAM killing and butchering Christians, natives, animists, in India, Nigeria, Sudan, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel, Indonesia, Russia, Holland, Austraila.
I have read and seen the results of TRUE ISLAM raping its way in Sweden, Holland, France, and now England.
I have seen TRUE ISLAM executing and brutalizing its own islamic women in Saudi Arabia and Iran so what are you trying to tell us now?
Islam is as evil as it was from the beginning when mohammed adopted the tenents of the Arabian, moon god many centuries ago.
What type of god do you worship if it commands you to KILL, RAPE, ENSLAVE, TERRORIZE, ALL NON-MUSLIMS IN 134 VERSES??
Dont you dare try to tell me it is being misread or misintrepreted.
Saying to "kill the nonbelievers where you find them" LEAVES NO ROOM FOR MISTAKES.
The true God Jehovah says to love all no matter what the beliefs of any person.
Why do you continue to insult us and spew all these indefensible lies?
Islam is hopeless and only creates more enemies around the world everyday.
bigcatgirl -- excellent presentation. However, as you can see, the Muslim robot is impervious to human reason: "...it surprises me more that you think you know what these passages mean TO MUSLIMS."
This response of the Maryam Robot 2007 paints itself into a corner, for
1) if Muslims take to literalistic heart that veritable mountain of offensively violent and hateful and intolerant passages which bigcatgirl provided above (and why wouldn't they take them to literalistic heart, since Islam nurtures literalism as an appropriate way to reverently receive divine revelation?), then we have a problem Houston;
or
2) if Muslims do not take to literalistic heart that veritable mountain of offensively violent and hateful and intolerant passages, and rather interpret them to mean the opposite of what they so plainly convey, then they are curious creatures indeed, cultivating a massive record of divine revelation which means the virtual opposite of what it intends: "Well, Dear Infidel, when our holy texts say that God wants us to hate you Infidels, he really means he wants us to love you and give you sugar and honey!" Etc.
If there is a third alternative, I would welcome a thorough argument (not just bland assertions from an airhead Muslim robot) that explains what it is.
At any rate, the historical record (not to mention today's news) indicates that #1 is, and always has been, afoot, and not #2.
maryam,
"In Islam we get up in the night to pray. We visit the sick, give food to neighbours, and respect our parents, teachers and elders. It is an unselfish, kindly way of life and we do these things to please our Creator who has told us how to live together with peace and mercy. No suicide, no killing, why do the capitalists not allow muslims to flood the network with the truly peaceful nature of Islam?
That would separate the "jihadists" from mainstream Islam pretty effectively wouldn't it?
That would stop them claiming to be part of Islam and make sure no muslim joined them wouldn't it?"
If Islam is so peaceful accepting why is it that more Muslims are leaving to become Christians? In sub-Saharia Africa alone it is because of the good that the Christians have done that have won over many to the real Creator of all that is good and it is because of the the HOPE that the good news of the Gospel is giving to those who believe in the Lord. The good news is that Christ suffered and died for the forgiveness of the sins of all on the Cross. Add that with the hope of eternal life offered to those who believe by the resurection of the Lord from the dead and no wonder there is a greater spread of this good news. Good works alone and trying to live a right life cannot get one into paradise. Accepting the forgiveness offered from the Lord is the key, after which living a Godly life will follow.
The truth about Islam which has been showing its true colors in all the violence and oppression is coming out everyday and no amount of deniel can make it go away. Face the music, Islam's true face is being shown everyday in the news reports on latest violence or protest. Please wake up and smell the coffee. Thank-you.
remote_control,
Thanks for the good word. Keep up the good work and now I am going to watch a little NFL football. May the best teams today win.
"If Islam is so peaceful accepting why is it that more Muslims are leaving to become Christians?"
Money, I have heard. Missionaries loaded with incentives prey upon children and the disadvantaged in desperately poor areas. Areas made poor by western activity. It is rare indeed for muslims who know their Islam to leave it. They may lapse but they know it is true.
I am aware of Christian beliefs but did not intend to discuss religions. I mentioned what it is to be a muslim to show that Islam is good, to make the point that allowing muslims to increase public awareness of the purity and goodness of Islam would go a long way to neutralising the alleged "terrorist threat", but they'll never do it because it's a faked threat they want kept up.
maryam,
"Money, I have heard. Missionaries loaded with incentives prey upon children and the disadvantaged in desperately poor areas. Areas made poor by western activity. It is rare indeed for muslims who know their Islam to leave it. They may lapse but they know it is true.
I am aware of Christian beliefs but did not intend to discuss religions. I mentioned what it is to be a muslim to show that Islam is good, to make the point that allowing muslims to increase public awareness of the purity and goodness of Islam would go a long way to neutralising the alleged "terrorist threat", but they'll never do it because it's a faked threat they want kept up."
Money, yea, right, I heard that one.
Here is a URL that would suprise you.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina31103.htm
Wake up and smell the coffee!
remote_control,
That is why it never hurts to do a little research including using the internet.
Who is turning to which religion where and why is their own business and not relevant. You are studiously ignoring the point.
Reality, facts, history, nothing as these items matters to muslims.
The anonymous muslim here has been ignoring everything claiming our statements are all propaganda and lies.
Yes, some lies are told by the government, BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT YOU ARE DECLARING.
All the people can not be wrong all the time regarding islamic attacks on the western world.
Emperor Manuel was quoted from a history book by the pope last year and your people by the millions went nuts.
The truth hurts, but the truth will not go away.
Dinesh Dsouza is living in a world of dreams and is not aware of the savage,unjust,bloodthirst side of Islam which prewaches violencewith every other religion in world and if that is not enough within themselves ( Shia/Sunni).
Why can Mr dsouza see that its only Islam which has problem with wherever they immigrate.
Has he wondered why the Chinese, the Indian Hindus, the Buddhists,the Jews come and migrate into UK/USA and then integrate with the society peacefully and do not indulge in violence or try to impose their culture on the country they have migrated to.
How come only Muslims have a problem integrating and accepting law of that country which gives them a better lifestyle. How come they dont just stay in their own country if they want Sharia law and not accept democracy. Looks like they want to eat the cake and have it too.
This dinesh is either mad or is just seeking fame taking advantage of the situation.
Dinesh D'souza laying blame at the lib-left's doorstep for 9/11 is absurd, but you have to admit that it is refreshing for someone to posit a contrary opinion to the one that American foreign policy, particularly its support for Israel and for the establishment of the Taliban regime by virtue of having helped rid Afghanistan of the Soviets is what inspired 9/11 and not OBL's dreams of re-establishment of the Caliphate and Saddam's desire for pay-back over Gulf War I.
But what is true, and what the lib-left does deserve blame for is what Paul Berman spoke to in his 2002 book "Terror and Liberalism" -- the lib-left's indulgence in moral equivalency and wholesale refusal to accept the obvious -- that what we are seeing is yet another totalitarian ideology, infused with nihilism, threatening liberal values. What is different is that this movement is not a new form of theocratic fascism, but rather an extremely old one.
"Yes, some lies are told by the government, BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT YOU ARE DECLARING."
Yes, I have to say, to that extent. I know it is hard to believe. When the lies are so huge and numerous and all-pervasive. But I'm not just in denial. The historical evidence and hard facts back up my opinion. I have researched it and have good reason to beieve it.
You are told what you are meant to believe. It is thrust in your face and shouted at you from every side, every day, offering something you can be certain about and indignant about in an uncertain and liberal world. Anything said that does not match what you are meant to believe is simply not published, or is published negatively.
I am like the whisper of truth in the clamour of lies; what they are telling you about Islam is untrue. So easy to ignore. So easy to dismiss as preposterous. So easy to insult. So easy to bury in a mountain of propaganda.
But think of this as you try to justify your torture camps, raids and murders by dehumanising a quarter of the world; muslims are human beings like you. They recognise good and bad the same as you. They cannot be persuaded to die for a promise of sex, just like you. They are a family-centred peaceful community; everybody's ideal, yours and mine. We want to worship God in the way we believe He has told us to; with prayer and self-restraint and study and unselfishness and harmonious family life. If you want to do the same we'll help you learn it. If not, then live however you like. We will still be helpful, kindly and polite but won't join in your lifestyle. This is the Islamic attitude they won't publish.
"If Islam is so peaceful accepting why is it that more Muslims are leaving to become Christians?"
Maryam says:
"Money, I have heard. Missionaries loaded with incentives prey upon children and the disadvantaged in desperately poor areas."
This sounds a lot like Islam to me. "Join the jihad." "Become a martyr." "Blow up the infidels." "Your family will be compensated."
Islamists continue their abhorrent acts on a daily basis. Here on JW/DW we comment on them daily as well. Contrary to all empirical evidence, Maryam continually tries to reminds us that we are wrong and do not understand.
It is a tired argument from a powerless person. Stop wasting your and our time. Reach out to the "good" Muslims that you have placed in your Tiqyya-ridden screenplay. Encourage your fellow "moderates" to speak out and clarify the true meaning of Islam and how it is to be applied. Encourage debate and dialogue between Islam and the West.
DROP A LINK OR TWO supporting your fellow Islamists who share your opinion, the silent majority of Muslims in the world, according to you.
PROVIDE SOMETHING THAT SUPPORTS ANY OF YOUR STATEMENTS!!
Muslims traditionally make bad liars, even though it is expressly permitted in your holy texts and has been practiced throughout the centuries. This is not due to a genetic flaw, but merely because Islam's intent is also explicit, and that fact alone makes the defense of it futile to those of us who refuse to ignore our senses.
No doubt, a fool you are Maryam. Fooling anyone else here, you are most certainly not.
THE UNITED STATES IS INSOLVENT
by Dr. Chris Martenson
The End of Money
December 17, 2006
Prepare to be shocked.
The US is insolvent. There is simply no way for our national bills to be paid under current levels of taxation and promised benefits. Our federal deficits alone now total more than 400% of GDP.
That is the conclusion of a recent Treasury/OMB report entitled Financial Report of the United States Government (Download here: http://fms.treas.gov/fr/06frusg/06frusg.pdf ) that was quietly slipped out on a Friday (12/15/06), deep in the holiday season, with little fanfare. Sometimes I wonder why the Treasury Department doesn't just pay somebody to come in at 4:30 am Christmas morning to release the report. Additionally, I've yet to read a single account of this report in any of the major news media outlets but that is another matter.
This is an example of the media not publishing stuff they don't want YOU to talk or think about. They do want you hating muslims because it serves their purpose so you get LOADS from the media on that subject. Some full and frank discussions on a US Treasury report admitting you're bankrupt? Conspicuous by their absence.
My dearest Myram,
The US economy is at $13.22 TRILLION!!
Our debt is estmd at $8.2 trillion so your numbers are very incorrect.
My source was the CIA world factbook.
We do have to pay off this big debt, but that is not making us attack muslims.
P.S. Guantanmo Bay prison is a country club and fraternity inititations are rougher than anything terrorists are experiencing at that place. I believe more people died in the trunk of Sen Ted Kennedy's car than died in any US prison. Did you know inmates are ganining weight courtesy of the American taxpayer?
Every western hostage has been butchered in the hands of islamic terrorists as they are not humane as us to actually care for them.
Maryam,
Nice bait and switch. I ask again, will you provide one example from your fellow Islamists who share the same view of Islam as yourself??
Typical of a Muslim, to change the subject abruptly when the argument is lost. That nonsense you wrote, even if true, does not answer the question posed explicitly to you.
The MSM is what it is at the moment. Most readers here already know that. It certainly was not a revelation born of the completely off-topic crap you posted above.
The answer to the question of what is the sum of 2 + 2 is NOT partly cloudy with a 30% chance of rain.