Their mission -- to destroy the jihadist forces in Somalia -- has largely been accomplished. Soon it will be time to go home. Here is an example we would have done well to follow several years ago, rather than pursue Wilsonian fantasies.
By Jeffrey Gettleman in the New York Times, with thanks to Davida:
ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia, Jan. 2 — The prime minister of Ethiopia, Meles Zenawi, said today that his country, one of the poorest in the world, could not afford to keep its troops in neighboring Somalia much longer, and that Somalia’s stability depended on the quick injection of foreign peacekeepers.In a speech to parliament, in which his tone alternated between humble and triumphant, Mr. Meles said that Ethiopia had accomplished its mission to wipe out Somalia’s Islamist forces, which just two weeks ago controlled a large chunk of the country and were regarded as a regional menace.
“We will now leave as soon as possible — it could be weeks, it could be months,” he said. “We don’t have the money to take this burden individually.”
Ethiopia is becoming one of my favorite countries-effective fighter against jihad, prudent, practical. No BS, no fooling around. This nation might be poor, but it has more guts and intelligence than the Western nations at this point. Haile Selassie would be proud and rightfully so.
Ethiopia can be proud of itself, they are very good
Ok I'm laughing now. Ethiopia has better leadership than we do, so they have success where we have failure! Did we not run from Somalia several years ago lol too funny .... not!
We used to let our troops fight like that. Of course that was before we let the media define the rules of engagement for us.
Maybe we should ask the Ethiopians for some military advisors in Iraq, on second thought maybe we just need military advisors in the White House to train the Administration on how to fight Islamists.
Big mistake. A swamp doesn't stop spawning mosquitoes unless dried out. The Ethiopians should have taken over the country to Christianize it, similar to what the Allies did to de-nazify Germany after WWII.
Looks like the Ethiopians wasted the armies of Jihad. Who turned tale and ran like the rats they are. Way to go!!
Islam needs a to be spanked hard. It's the only language it understands. The complications arise when there's a Muslim population for Muslim guerrillas to retreat back into. They are more difficult to decimate when they hide behind their women's skirts
Walter exactly- Unfortunately this world has been neutered for the most part by rabid democratic 'dialoguing' ideology to be seen as political correctness. The media is a HUGE contributor to this cancer that cripples a countries sovereign right to self protection. People like John Bolton TRIED to cut through the crap and make a case for our right to preemptive and massive force, but the democrats and the U.N crucified him for exposing their hypocrisy! http://sacredscoop.com
If thier military needs money it should set up a fund for the free world to invest in it. Seems like it could be a great international cherity .... I would give in a heartbeat. Can't trust the UN, our millitary is hamstrung by liberalism and the media so what the heck.
Maybe we should ask the Ethiopians for some military advisors in Iraq, on second thought maybe we just need military advisors in the White House to train the Administration on how to fight Islamists.
Posted by: walterc
I believe we already have special forces there advising which gave success to this operation. I don't think the Ethiopians are capable of doing this on their own. Congratulations goes to our Green Army.
A victory for Prime Minister Zenawi against the jihadists, their Arab backers, and his third cousin and enemy President Afworky of Eritrea. Eritrea has sent hundreds of fighters (Christian and Muslim) to join the Islamists and aids the Muslim tribesmen of Ogaden, seeking to sever Ethiopia from it's "corridor to the sea."
Saudi Arabia and Egypt have also been deeply involved in aiding the ICU, Egyptian intelligence was allegedly present in Mogadishu. The three Al Qaeda who fled with the Islamists are Abdullah Fazul, a leader of the 1998 embassy bombings and the USS Cole attack, Ali Shaleh Nabhan of Kenya and Abu Taha al-Sudani of Sudan.
From the Counterrorism Blog:
Islamic Courts Abandon Kismayo, Establish "Shadow Governments"
By Daveed Gartenstein-Ross
I spoke with a military intelligence officer this morning about the situation in Somalia. He reported that the radical Islamic Courts Union (ICU) has abandoned Kismayo and dispersed. Kismayo is one of Somalia's strategic port cities: after abandoning Kismayo, the ICU seemingly no longer controls any strategic cities. However, the group does control a sizeable geographic area, both in the north and south of the country. The ICU primarily controls smaller towns and villages.
My source reports that even in areas that the ICU controls, it is giving up active control and forming "shadow governments." The term "shadow government" refers to Mafia-style governance, similar to what Al Capone had in Chicago in the 1920s: in these areas the ICU doesn't have formal control, but is the real power. This mirrors the Taliban's position in much of northern Pakistan. The main advantage the ICU derives from moving to shadow government is that it doesn't have to actually govern: ICU representatives don't have to appear publicly and don't have to make any of the public works run. Instead, they can focus all their effort on insurgent campaigns -- which, all told, is easier than managing a fully-functioning government. Also, a functioning government has to exist in a place that can be targeted. A shadow government, in contrast, can just disperse and regroup.
There are also disadvantages to a shadow government. It's difficult for a shadow government to mass to control territory because once it does, it can be targeted. A second disadvantage is that the tools the shadow government uses to control the population are negative rather than positive. (For positive tools that the ICU used, remember how it managed to gain the support of Somalia's business community.) Instead of having anything positive to offer, the shadow government's position is that Somalis need to cooperate with it or they'll be killed. These negative tools of control run the risk of alienating the population. However, if the country slips back into chaos, these negative controls may actually be seen by the population as positive means to stability.
My source notes that in those areas where the ICU hasn't moved to shadow government, it's probably because of communication difficulties: ICU leaders in those areas probably aren't aware that they should do so.
Moreover, my source says that "the real battle" in Somalia will likely begin when Ethiopia begins to pull its troops back. Thus far, ICU forces have been melting away as the Ethiopians advance. This is reminiscent of the Taliban's dispersal after Kandahar fell in Afghanistan. There is confirmation that the three suspects in the 1998 East Africa embassy bombings who were in Somalia escaped during the ICU's retreat. Some ICU members are trying to escape to Kenya, and have a good chance of succeeding because the Kenyan police are notoriously corrupt. ICU leader Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys is nowhere to be seen. Ethiopians and U.S. intelligence reportedly put the number of ICU fighters killed in the thousands.
My source reports that as the ICU left Mogadishu, they opened the jails and gave the criminal population all the weapons that the ICU wasn't able to take with it. This action was designed to give the Ethiopians and transitional government more problems to take care of as they assume control of the city.
“We don’t have the money to take this burden individually.” says Mr. Meles.
But why are they not charging Somalia a heavy tax for the burden of peacekeeping? This should not cost Ethiopia a single penny! It wasn't their fault, so they should not be paying!
cf jizya.
ZionistYoungster writes:
"Big mistake. A swamp doesn't stop spawning mosquitoes unless dried out. The Ethiopians should have taken over the country to Christianize it, similar to what the Allies did to de-nazify Germany after WWII."
Bad analogy, as if any analogy is helpful. This
one certainly isn't.
If you aren't willing to annihilate noncombatants
then you can't "drain the swamp". As most people
aren't willing, best to make sure that the
mosquitos are just living in savagery.
There is a good article at American thinker by Col.Tom Snodgrass entitled "Rewriting the rules of war"that puts the blame right where it needs to go as far as US military strategy is concerned.
The war in Somalia is far from being won. The Viet Gong and NVA used this same strategy. Retreat until the threat is gone then infiltrate again. Soon the terrorist attacks against the civilian population will begin again by the ICU.The ICU and Islam doesnt need to attack or fight in military battles they break the will of the population to resist them and then make them submit to their ideology.Without the support of the people the governments just fade away.
Their mission -- to destroy the jihadist forces in Somalia -- has largely been accomplished.
Now, this is a true "Mission Accomplished!".
You don't win a war against the jihad by chasing the mujahideen off traditional fields of battle. Unless they track them down and prevent them from forming terror cells and whatnot this will simply degerate into the usual neverending low-intensity war against civilians and supporters of the government. I'm surprised anyone could find this much different than the heady days after Saddam's military and fedayeen melted back into the towns and villages to prepare for the real war.
root_cause,
Wow. Bald statement and... that's it. I'm convinced. Not.
I don't think you got the meaning of my comment.
After doing away with the combatants, with all that entails, you have to take over the rest of the population, the noncombatants, in order to neutralize the ideology that had made combatants out of some of them.
Had this not been done with Germany at the end of World War II, we might be having a extremist nationalistic Germany for World War III now. The current form of fascism threatening us will have to be treated the same way, otherwise every non-Muslim victory will bring not permanent peace but a mere truce (hudna).
And the job of uprooting the fascist ideology wasn't done by pointing guns at civilians in Germany after World War II, so it doesn't need to in the present case. The iron fist need be applied only to armed insurgents.
I have absolutely no argument about congratulating Ethiopia on achieving the short-term victory, nor do I belittle the importance of it. My reservations are all about the issue of achieving long-term peace.
And Beagle--spot on, my thoughts exactly. I think Ethiopia's real test of standing against Islam comes now.
Aardwark wrote,
"But why are they not charging Somalia a heavy tax for the burden of peacekeeping? This should not cost Ethiopia a single penny! It wasn't their fault, so they should not be paying!"
The fact is Ethiopia is poor and somalia is even poorer. who will be taxed? who is there to collect taxes and administer the bookeeping and security?
What will happen will be the usual
low intensity islamic warfare or jihad to stymie full somali government control of all the regions. but for Ethiopia their job is done and the immediate threat eliminated.
"Their mission -- to destroy the jihadist forces in Somalia -- has largely been accomplished. Soon it will be time to go home. Here is an example we would have done well to follow several years ago, rather than pursue Wilsonian fantasies."
Didn't we follow this same strategy in Afghanistan after accomplishing our mission of helping the locals to resist the Soviets? We walked away and left their country. We were then blamed for their subsequent civil wars because we didn't stay and rebuild the country. It would be nice to give up the Wilsonianism, but the US is rarely afforded that luxury.
Invade and you're an occupier.
Leave and you can't be trusted to stand by allies.
What alternative is there other than to withdraw from the world and let it blow itself up unless we are given a free hand to do what needs to be done without all the second guessing?
And they can always go back if need be.
Had the American forces withdrawn in January or February 2004, they could, from ships, from the air, always "go back." And then the American govenrment instead of clinging, and forcing others to cling, to tarbaby Iraq, might have focussed on the islamization of Western Europe, and on the nuclear project of Iran. By remaining in Iraq, the American government has simply supplied fuel to anti-American forces in Western Europe, and supplies the Islamic Republic of Iran with American hostages, those soldiers in Iraq, so close to Iranian agents and Iranian retaliatory attacks in the case of attacks on Iran's nuclear weapons.
Good luck to the Ethiopians!
ZionistYoungster wrote:
"Wow. Bald statement and... that's it. I'm convinced. Not."
I'm similarly unconvinced by your bald analogy,
which is that this is like draining a swamp, or
that it's like the denazification of Germany.
It isn't. Not even close. The only way to drain
the swamp is to eliminate Islam. How are the
Ethiopians going to do that, without mass
slaughter?
Europe and Japan after WWII is a lot different
than some Islamic backwater. If that's not
obvious to you, I don't know what to say except
"good day, sir!". Nazism was not nearly as
entrenched in Germany as Islam in the Muslim
world.
No, the Ethiopian approach is better. Kick their
butts so that they can't cause as much trouble, and leave. They can always return and kick butt again later. Even better is nonlethal ethno/religious "cleansing" or population
transfer where Muslims are separated from
modern humanity, and left to figure out what's
wrong. That's likely to be the best solution for
Europe and Israel.
Even better than that would be removing young enough Muslim children from their parents so
that they could be raised as people, and sterilizing the rest. But that's well into the
realm of whacky pipe dreams.
It is truly ironic that we Americans, possessing the greatest military force the world has ever known, actually have to learn lessons about successfully waging war from the Ethiopeans of all people. Perhaps the reason for this is because, being a small, poor country, they actually have to take war seriously and not treat it as a game or a political exercise (as our leaders are apparently doing). This means that, in war, you either fight to win or you do not fight at all. If they can understand this simple truth, why can't we?
A good start to 2007. First, Bam takes over the UN, and Annan is history. Then Ethiopia, having destroyed the Jihad in Somalia, is now coming back.
I liked Zenawi's last comment, “We don’t have the money to take this burden individually.” Translation: no jiziya. Put Zenawi down as an early candidate for anti-Dhimmi of this year.
ZionistYoungster
Ethiopia would have made itself the object of condemnation had they tried to Christianize Somalia - you can be sure that the OIC would put a 50 county block together at the UN condemning them, and neither Europe nor the US would diplomatically take their side. They did the best they could, given global realities.
Hugh writes:
Agreed. And that would have looked reasonable if the U.S. had succeeded in its original stated goals--uncovering caches of modern Weapons of Mass Destruction and clear links between Saddam and al-Qaeda. We could then have truly said "Mission Accomplished" (for real) and withdrawn from Iraq.
But by December 2003, it became clear that those goals were not going to be realized--Saddam didn't have anywhere near the WMD arsenal we thought he had. So Bush started desperately looking around for some other rationale for the war, to distract public opinion so it wouldn't look like we fought the whole war for nothing. That's when we really started to hear how important it was to build "democracy" there.
We got into a mode where we were looking for new reasons to justify all the killing and destruction that had taken place up to that point, so it wouldn't look like "American soldiers had died in vain." And that's an endless vicious cycle we still haven't broken out of.
I have absolutely no argument about congratulating Ethiopia on achieving the short-term victory, nor do I belittle the importance of it. My reservations are all about the issue of achieving long-term peace.(Zionist youngster)
1) The native Africans (even Muslim native Africans) do not like the taste of the Arab, Taliban like Sharia that is being imposed on them in Somolia and Sudan. I see a backlash here- a unification of tribes against the Jiahdists and some brutal ass kicking of the Islamist Court scumbags if they try to pop their heads up again.
2) The UN, under new leadership with the departure
of the criminal Koffi may indeed install some order in Somolia and further aid in ass kicking the Jiahdists as they try to reassert themselves.
3) Strong evidence of Western Christianity and compassion are winning the hearts of the suffering Africans as compared with the oppression and forced conversion from the Islamist gangsters.
4) The Ethiopians attacked with a surrender or be killed attitude. Supported by the US Navy and the Kenyans, the thugs were trapped like rats with nowhere to run. The "holy warriors" some 3000 of them who came to join the Jiahd were also trapped and killed putting a serious damper in Islamist leadership in Somolia.
5) Bin Ladins dream of a new physical breeding ground for his band of executioners in Somolia (after losing Afghanistan) has taken another serious whooping.
Enjoy and savour the victory, my Zionist friend, given to us by our brave ethiopian kinsmen.
I nominate Prime Minister Zenawi for the anti-dhimmi award for 2007.
His leadership in Somalia is most impressive. The west certainly needs more leaders like him. Can we export him to western europe?
Hopefully, Prime Minister Zenawi will work his wonders on stimulating the sagging Ethiopian economy and drive the growing influence of Islam out of Ethiopia.
Posted by: walterc:
"...We used to let our troops fight like that. Of course that was before we let the media define the rules of engagement for us..."
I agree absolutely, but I'll take it a up a notch. Ever since our government changed the 'WAR'Department to the 'DEFENSE'Department in 1949, we haven't (politicians and politicized generals are guilty) utterly crushed anyone. Hell, the media and government won't even call the enemy what they call themselves, Muslims.
Did the Eithiopians booby-trap ammo dumps, arsenals and armories ( aka mosques ) place all manner of listening devices and targeting beacons? I hope so.
Just like I hope Israel had the foresight to tag everything they rolled by during the July battles.
"Africa ignores Ethiopia's plea for support"
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/africa-ignores-ethiopias-plea-for-support/2007/01/03/1167777156010.html
root_cause,
I'm sorry, but I give no truck to what is called, "conventional wisdom". I spent a whole decade (the 1990's) doing that, but now I demand support every time, no matter how commonly held the assertion may be.
Yep. Inconvenient truth. Or to reform it, which amounts to the same thing (elimination of the current, peace-threatening form of Islam).
I could answer that question, but you'd go back to calling it a bad analogy...
No, but in quality the issue was the same: rammed onto the populace through education, pulled out of them the same way.
The Ethiopian approach isn't an alternative to what I advocate, it's just the necessary prelude to it.
Ah. You set your sights on a truce, an armistice. Like Europe didn't have that for about 300 years since 1683, only to have the threat come back with a vengeance in our age.
No, I'm afraid I've tired of hudnas. In my eyes, only permanent peace is acceptable.
A reform from within would certainly be good. Question is, can we bet our lives on it happening in time?
It's in "the realm of whacky pipe dreams" because of the PC regime that preaches mercy toward the cruel.
Infidel Pride,
That is precisely why victory, true peace, is a long way off. Because world opinion and international standing still take precedence to our very survival.
Briars,
I enjoy and savor it indeed. But upon contemplation, I realize I enjoy and savor it because it's against the backdrop of near-total dhimmitude the whole world over. Relatively speaking, the Ethiopian achievement is dazzling. Absolutely speaking, they've only fulfilled the minimal requirements in this global war.
I enjoy and savor this victory; I will not, however, be surprised to hear of a renewal of this conflict in the news a few years from now.
Zionistyoungster/Briars...now that was a good exchange. Thanks.
I am a pessimist about reforming Islam, and the supposed, maybe, existance of 'moderate muslims'. Who 'might' reform Islam.
The bottom line is Allah, and his uncreated, immutable, not written by man, Holy book, The Quran'.
Allah is not talking to them 'then', he is talking to them 'now'. The Messenger, Mohammad, is still alive. (Of course after 1400 years he is looking a little grey and sallow). And muslims hear him, as muslims always have...in the present.
Allah has made it clear that he hates the guts of non believers and apostates, and what he wants done with, or too, them. Allahs dictates are alive, and in the present. On top of that, 'all' muslims are 'obligated', to support and participate in jihad. Only the blind and crippled are exempted. If they refuse, they die hypocrits, and you know what 'that' means.
So would someone point out any muslim who will stand up to Allah and tell him, 'please forgive me Allah, as I have made some of your holy words null and void, and I have 'reinterpreted' some of them to mean something other than what you said".
I think this is beyond the pale of any muslim or group of muslims. They dont dare do that. Getting into heaven (Allahs brothel) is a big thing to them, so they are not likely to pzz off the gatekeeper. And Allah knows everything...he already has his eye on so called 'reformers'.
So it looks like the only way to stop Islamic hegemony and jihad, is to stop Islamic hegemony and jihad. That will eventually mean either beating them into submission, or giving into them.
I dont see much wiggle room here. As long as Allah keeps talking to them, there will be trouble.
I dont want to see muslims killed because Allah has slain reality in his submitters. What really needs to happen, is we need to slay the slayer of reality, Allah. If I could find a way to kill Allah I would do it now. Allah is not a human or even an animal, so it is not a sin to kill IT...
It has been a good start to 2007 - made so by the Ethiopians, but unfortunately there are dark clouds on the horizon - not least of which is the swearing in of the new Houses, and power in the hands of Pelosi. And the rest of the West will offer more concessions, and urge the Israelis to make yet more concessions, to the Jihadis as they have done for the last 20 years at least. Political correctness will become more entrenched in the West, I fear, and there is nothing like the calibre of leadership we so badly need remotely in sight.
Duh-swami:
Point of clarification. I view the native African Muslims the same way bin Laden views them: as apostates. They seem to view bin Ladin's brand of Islam they same way I do: barbaric and against human nature. I do not consider them moderate Muslims. The more they view the barabarity of the Islamic Arab masters,
the less they will stay Muslim
Good one, thanks!
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
never confront Islamists
just let them push you around
change your culture to fit them
..
Great news !
They didn't stay a second longer than necessary . F*&K , why can't we do that ?
i.e. Use your forces really really carefully . Don't squander them with some vague aim in mind - having them stand on some Arab street corner like sitting ducks , doing tasks they weren't even trained for - and at all costs don't get your military in some open ended F*&^%D*G operation
You know you're lost when no one but no one can give a clear and straight definition of when the mission in Iraq and Afghanistan has been successfully completed . No one
The NEO cons are so lost on this " if we build 'em a couple of schools they'll like us" policy
The policy to shame a gaggle of pin heads
Quick surgical strikes , then back to base in time for tea and crumpet .Short , sweet , more fun and way more effective than bunkering down in "the green zone"
Compare Ehiopia's tactics with ours in Iraq and Afghanistan
Christ , with a small fraction of money , clout and men they look like the real deal while we look like a herd of gormless bumpkins who've wandered in to a MENSA conference - completely out of our depth and so dumb we don't even know why - Four years on and the penny still hasn't dropped - F*&K , we're slow , slow , slow which is not good , good , good when dealing with shrewd hard heads like the nutters in Tehran . They'll have us all for breakfast at this rate .
Let's bump off our leaders and pay the Ethiopians so we can sort-of-borrow-on-a-permanent-basis-kind-of-like theirs .