Lina Joy Update. "Muslim Malaysia faces crucial test on religious freedom," from AFP:
KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysia's status as a moderate Muslim country is being put to the test in a milestone court decision that may allow Muslims to renounce their faith, a move considered one of Islam's greatest sins.
The nation's highest court is to rule on an appeal by Lina Joy, a convert from Islam to Christianity who for a decade has been locked in a battle with the government to have her decision legally recognised.
The appeal brings to a head passionate arguments about whether Muslims can renounce Islam at will and, ultimately, whether Malaysia is a secular country or is morphing into a conservative Islamic state under religious Sharia law.
"Our country is at a crossroads pending the outcome of this landmark case," Joy's counsel, Benjamin Dawson, told AFP.
"This decision is pivotal to the direction the country will take."
The 42-year-old woman at the centre of the case is a member of Malaysia's majority ethnic Malay community, who make up 60 percent of the population of more than 26 million.
Born a Muslim and called Azlina Jailani, she says her introduction to Christianity in 1990 changed her life for the better.
But it has left her fighting the authorities since 1997, first for her new name to be put on her identity card, then to have her former religion removed.
"Although I have been brought up as a Muslim, I have, from the beginning, not believed in the practices and teachings of Islam," Joy, who rarely speaks to the media, said in a 2000 affidavit to a high court.
"I find more peace in my spirit and soul after having become a Christian.
"As such, I am of the opinion that I would be unfaithful, untrue and unfair to myself and to others should I carry on projecting myself as Muslim."
Her appeal to the federal court centres on whether she must go to a Sharia court to have her renunciation recognised before authorities strike the word "Islam" off her identity card.
The court's ruling is seen as pivotal because it could resolve a paradox in the constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion but defines Malays as Muslims.
Malaysia's civil courts operate parallel to Sharia courts for Muslims in areas of personal law such as divorce, child custody and inheritance.
The question of which takes precedence, however, is increasingly murky in cases that involve both Muslims and non-Muslims, who have little say in Sharia courts.
Lower courts have so far rebuffed Joy's efforts, ruling that only Islamic courts can recognise her conversion.
[...]
The debate has grown increasingly fierce as Malays have become more openly pious, a phenomenon non-Muslim communities see as a worrying "Islamisation" of the country.
Analysts say the resurgence is fueled by a decades-old fight between the ruling United Malays National Organisation party and its Islamic opposition to prove their religious credentials and "out-Islamise" each other.
While rights campaigners argue that Malays have a right to renounce Islam, Muslim groups have denounced Joy's legal challenge as a ploy to undermine the religion's status.
"The process amounts to an attempt to deconstruct, to change radically the position of Islam as it is in the constitutional legal set-up of the country," said Yusri Mohammed, the president of the influential Muslim Youth Movement of Malaysia.
"We see this as something which is unacceptable, something which is a threat to the socio-religious harmony of the country."
In other words, Islamic hegemony could be threatened.
Harussani Zakaria, the mufti of Perak state, recently cited a report that 100,000 Malays had renounced Islam and more were lining up to do so, although he has not provided details.
While Yusri said any social unrest over the Joy case would be "manageable," emotions are frayed in a country which rarely sees demonstrations or acts of political violence.
Threats against her lawyers have been released on websites and in August, posters were circulated anonymously calling for the death of lawyer and rights activist Malik Imtiaz Sarwar, who has argued in Joy's case.
"It is a symptom of the breakdown of civilised dialogue in this country. It is a sign of the reactionary times ahead," he wrote in a newspaper article on the threats.
[...]
Dawson, Joy's lawyer, said he expects a decision in the first half of 2007, and lawyers say decisions in similar cases in lower courts are being held over until the federal judges rule on her appeal.
Go Lina Go,
And with your conscience show,
That souls can choose their own path,
Free from threats and subjugation.
***
Will the House of Islam fall,
From an act so brave and small?
Will other Muslims follow,
If the mighty yoke is shown as hollow?
**
They might...
And that is why,
She Must Not Leave!
Or She shall die.
*
A Joy indeed is she,
Who dares to be,
Her true self,
And free.
Worshipping any god but Jesus Christ, the one true God and only God, is worshipping false gods that are forbidden by the Decalogue in the first commandment. Islam is largely based on the heretical teachings of the Christian Patriarch of Constantinople, Nestorius, who was condemned as a Heretic. He taught a belief that denied the Divinty of Jesus Christ and that Jesus was only an intimate of God, and not His son. Christianity through the centuries has always defeated, utlimately, all such heresies, including Islam.
Mohammed's grasp of Christianity was only through Nestorian heresy and can be defined as "Nestorian Christianity." It is 13 centuries old, monotheistic, and has been the cause of the largest number of martyrs among Christians, which could be the fate of these Malaysians who are now trying to assert their natural God-given rights of freedom of religion. The whole problem for the Malaysians attempting this coup in an Islamic nation is that Islam rules "by the sword" and ascribes to violence to advance its beliefs.
Let us look back at the great Christian pope who launched the crusades, Pope Urban II, and those who followed him wearing crosses on their uniforms to advance across Europe to drive out the invading mohammedans. They were brave and proudly wore this symbol of the cross--unlike effeminate, apostate Christians of today-- the sign of Jesus Christ's great sacrifice for the sins of mankind on the cross to bring "eternal peace" to all as the Prince of Peace. For more on the perfect kind of Christian prayers that will bring about the conversion of Islam and Pope Urban II:
J. Hughes Dunphy
http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com
It is difficult to believe that the Malaysian Court will allow freedom of conscience. And if, theoretically, such a right were to be acknowledged, the social pressure, and threats, on would-be apostates would continue. Look at how difficult, after 80 years of Kemalism, it is to leave Islam and convert to another religion. Meet with those who have done so, in Istanbul, as they whisper to you, and ask you to keep your own voice down, and not to draw attention to the fact that they are speaking to you about their new faith -- lest some "moderate" Turks take it into their head to do something.
The only way anyone leaves the cult of death is via death-there is no way Malaysia will allow someone to freely leave it. If it does allow it I expect a big increase in violence from the peaceful ones-either way, Malaysia is in for some rough times in the future.
"that may allow Muslims to renounce their faith,"
.......they should make renouncing Islam a law....
Hang in there, Lina ! You are a shining light. We hope the Malaysian court does the right thing, though I agree with what IslamsforLosers posted, "If it does allow it I expect a big increase in violence from the peaceful ones-either way, Malaysia is in for some rough times in the future."
The rights to apostasy is the weak link is the chain that Islam has wrapped around the necks of those born into it. People in the west take this right for granted to the point that I would wager that the overwhelming majority do not even know such laws exist almost universally throughout the Islamic world. If we had a government with a consistent policy against the threat of Islam, this would be made into an issue. Then again, we are so hated throughout the world that maybe Ms. Joy would do better without our moral support. However America and the west in general should be doing something to put pressure on these tyrants.
If Muslims gain the right to apostasy, it will be the beginning of the end of the power of the Islamic religious authorities.
It seems very, very silly to use religion as a primary means of identication.
I mean, how can a new-born child be Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Jedi? That child is not old enough to think, never mind make a rational decision on which god he or she should follow.
The Lina Joy case is an extension of this principle. How can the state label her a Muslim if she renounces Islam's teachings so completely?
Imagine if a court in the US ruled that a life-long Republican could join the Democrats but could not legally call herself a Democrat?
I wonder what CAIR has to say on such matters?
I hope that Ms. Joy continues to pursue this but takes precautions in her personal life.
Drum roll please ........
and the legal recognition of conversions from Islam decision is:
there will be no legal recognition of conversions from Islam.
TaDum
Hugh,
I beg to differ. The Malaysian supreme court will allow conversions from islam to be recognized. Once recognized, it shall be punishable by death.
SeB
A Joy indeed is she,
Who dares to be,
Her true self,
And free.
Posted by: alexon
Very well-done!
As one reads story after story like this--how can any rational, intelligent person refer to the Moslem religion as the "religion of peace." More apt seems the "religion of barbarism" or the religion of the Middle Ages."
Malaysia is no 'moderate' Islamic state--sorry, guys.
It will fail the test, I am certain of it.
J. Hughes Dunphy wrote:
Let us look back at the great Christian pope who launched the crusades, Pope Urban II, and those who followed him wearing crosses on their uniforms to advance across Europe to drive out the invading mohammedans. They were brave and proudly wore this symbol of the cross--unlike effeminate, apostate Christians of today-- the sign of Jesus Christ's great sacrifice for the sins of mankind on the cross to bring "eternal peace" to all as the Prince of Peace. For more on the perfect kind of Christian prayers that will bring about the conversion of Islam and Pope Urban II:
J. Hughes Dunphy
JESUS ESTABLISHED THE 'NEW COVENANT!'
John 18:36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
Galatians 5:
Life by the Spirit
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Romans 12:Love
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.
20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Dear J. Hughes Dunphy,
I am not for Crusades but the time is fast running out for Christians in almost all countries even in "So called" Christian dominated countries.
The sad truth in Europe now is that most People are ashamed to tell proudly that "Yes I Am a Christian, and I belive in Jesus Christ whose weapon was message of Love Not Sword"
Also Christians are not protecting or voicing protest to the atrocities committed towards other Christians in different countries world wide who are persecuted but look at other religions (specially Islam)they will in Unison cry Wolf if any muslim is discriminated anywhere in WorlD.
The need of Hour is a bonding of All religions against this Satanic Cult called ISLAM. especially Christians & Jews.
The Crusades were the result of the push of Islam into Europe, and the felt need to fight back to preserve a Christian Europe, and take back the Holy land of Christ. As an atheist, I believe it is important to understand that it is Islam that started their version of the crusades, otherwise known as JIHAD. Funny the new Muslim politician in the United States said that Jefferson was influenced by the Koran, and that in some way it was the Koran that helped shape the constitution. Talk about straight out lies. Funny in 1786, 10 short years after the founding of the United States Jefferson was involved in a war with the Muslims of the Barbary States! Quite the spin indead!! Shameful really.
Got off track on the last post. If Malaysia goes in the direction of religious freedom, it will be very interesting to see the reaction of other Muslim states. But unfortunately I don't think that has any chance what so ever of happening!