Spanish bishops fear rebirth of Islamic kingdom

They should take the attitude of Bush and Blair. Relax. "Moms and dads" everywhere want the same thing. Islam is fine, and those hijackers of a great religion are on the run. We're ending poverty in Iraq and Afghanistan and Egypt and Jordan and in the "Palestinian" territories. We're bringing freedom.

What's the problem?

Worry warts.

Give them an inch and they will take a mile. There is no way at all that Muslims should be allowed to pray in ANY Churh or Cathedral. Islam has a history of destrution and conversion of churches all over the world and cannot be trusted. Next they will try and limit Chriatian worship in Cordoba Cathedral because it interferes with the practice of Muslim prayer and they will want to instal their infernal loudspeakers in the spire to broadcast their call to worship Satan keeping all sane people awake.

ohhhhh, those deadly, parasitic Muslims...

Unlike the jihadists themselves, these planned mosque structures in Cordoba and London cannot melt into the landscape when mahometans behave badly. They are, in fact, very attractive 'hard targets'. Go ahead and build 'em. That's what Mr. Nobel invented dynamite for.

"Bishop Blazquez replied that public collective praying was prohibited, but he supposed private or individual prayer was acceptable. Mr Escudero then announced that Muslims would henceforth return to Cordoba's mosque to pray "in a respectful, private and individual capacity"."

..sounds like Bishop Blazquez almost blew it..
..Escudero obviously had a vision of muslims praying in a "private ,individual capacity.."
..all 5,ooo of them..

"Muslims were expelled from Spain in 1492"

Obviously Spain learned nothing from its history. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Somewhere between 1492 and now someone failed to keep the trouble makers out; now, Spain is again infested with Islamic vermin.

Where is the pied piper?

Madduck, I think they prefer to prey in large packs.

Relentless, aggressive, deceptive, and finally, threatening and violent, all traits of Islam as an ideology and of Mohammad as he is known through Muslim biographers.

It all jives. Doesn't it?

Speaking of Muslims and Churches - here's an idea: How about, for starters, the Muslims rebuild all the chuches they've burned down in the past 5 years? That ought to keep them busy for quite a while.

We are truly in the grip of an attempt to Islamicise the world. This has been happening at the start of each century for hundreds of years. I guess the people who would like to force Islam on the rest of the world see the new millenium as encouragement for the re-instatement of muslim domination in the world.

What a waste of time. You can never create a world domninated by one doctrine. People have tried (muslims, take note) and failed. All that will happen is that we end up in a world of violence, until we destroy ourselves.

Sadly, the people who want to rule the world through islam are as crazy as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and the like.

Time for those sort of people to start loving their children as much as they hate their "enemies".

Spain needs another Ferdinand and Isabella!

Robert - this isn't the first time you've requested that Hagia Spohia be returned to Christianity.

This demand is misplaced as Hagia Sophia is not used as a mosque, and hasn't been since the secular Turkish state under Ataturk desacralised it and converted it into a museum.

Turkish secularism ought to get more support from the contributors to this site. For all the debate about headscarves and veils going on in Britain and France these days, let's not forget that they were banned from state organisations in Turkey more than 50 years ago.

sorry - Hagia Sophia

Islamic "holy city" alert! Coming to a town near you soon.

Spain is part of dar al-Islam, should grow a backbone and declare that Islam “an illegal faith” in the predominately Roman Catholic nation.

All mosques are to be closed and sealed shut. Claim them a public nuisance, due to the potential use as sites for plotting violence and spreading hatred. Spain as a European outpost, needs to declare itself to be a “Islam Free Zone” and start expelling the ‘dissidents.’
Behave to our rules or go back to your native land.

Nuf
KnightHawk

Mind Boggling o/t.."Arab MK: Palestinians, unite against Israel

MK Barakeh speaks at protest held of 42nd anniversary of Fatah movement; says, 'Palestinians will triumph...Olmert and Peretz belong to history'

Ali Waked Published: 01.05.07, 14:42

Member of Knesset Mohammad Barakeh, chairman of Hadash, appealed to the Palestinian people to cease their internal clashes, in order to unite against Israel . In a speech given at the weekly protest against the fence in Bilin, Barakeh added that "Olmert and Peretz belong to history."
"The Palestinians will triumph in this struggle," he declared. "The Palestinian prisoners, foremost among them the hero Barghouti, will be released."
The protest in Belein took place on the 42nd anniversary of the establishment of the Fatah movement, and was attended by hundreds of Palestinians and dozens of leftists. Representatives of almost every Palestinian movement attended the protest.
PLO flag found in Barakeh's car

Jibril Rajoub, the national security advisor under Yasser Arafat, gave a speech, also focused on ending the internal clashes in the Palestinian Authority.
According to Rajoub, "the Palestinians must stop warring and use dialogue as the primary tool to solve the altercation between them." He also called on Hamas to get rid of operatives who were involved in the assassination of Fatah officials.
Evoking recent calls for Abbas to hold early elections, he added: "In every altercation, it must be understood that the issue can be resolved by ballot if it cannot be resolved by agreement."
After the demonstration, Border Guard officers found a PLO flag inside MK Barakeh's car. The flag was not confiscated dye to his immunity.
Barakeh's associates expressed their surprise over the incident.
"Since 1993 this is not an illegal act. Why, the same flag was raised in the prime minister's residence when he met with Abu Mazen (Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas) about two weeks ago," an aide said. "

Muslim Trimhpalism indeed:

"Muslims have the right to build mosques big and small wherever they like."

-"ousted moderate"!? Manuel "El Morisco" Escudero from the article above

"You will not destroy Islam; you cannot destroy Islam."

-posted by Haidon in the comments section yesterday at Dhimmiwatch

and this revealing passage from the book The Trouble With Islma by the honk-nosed and marsupial Irshad Manji, quoted yesterday by Fjordman-

"September 11 is a searing reminder of what can happen when we hive ourselves off from the problems of 'others,' the lesson being that good global citizenship has colossal benefits for domestic security. Regardless of whether Westerners want to accept this fact, Westerners have to accept it. And we have to accept it now because Arab Muslims are experiencing a baby boom. (…) Whoever denies these kids economic and civic participation will incite a degree of chaos capable of convulsing much of the planet. The Arab baby boom is as much the West's problem as it is the Middle East's. (…) Why wait until millions more Muslims show up at Australian, German, and North American checkpoints? Isn't it a basic matter of security that Muslims heading to these places arrive already knowing that Islam can be observed in ways that complement pluralism rather than suffocate it? (…) the West can't advance without immigrants. (…) In short, the West needs Muslims."

a veiled threat, a challenge, an avowal

Just let these so-called muslim moderates, reformers and primadonna dissidents run at the mouth for long enough and their true colours begin to show. A perfect display of what Hugh so insightfully terms the "attitudes and atmospherics of Islma" and what they instill in the mediocre-minded Mohammedan

"Posted by: schmegel"

turkey "secularism" gets no sympathy here. It has been proven times and times again that ataturk trained his monkey citizens into thinking turks were a superior race and had the right to decide the life of close armenians and christian and jew residents.

http://www.hr-action.org/thr/BjorgoWitte.htm

read here how "secularized" are your turkish racists.

Between this secularism and plain islamic bigottism is like choosing between a rock and a hard place.

Hagia Sophia/notice the comments
http://youtube.com/watch?v=usp6GLrzdws
Cordoba Cathedral
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mpTOjjRkL2o

Is there a limit to how many people are allowed to enter a country? I can not-believe Europe is allowing non EU members in by the bucket loads, it's not just about the people it's about letting an anti-democracy virus to spread it's wings.

The Problem is that Islamic countries persecute and intimidate the non-believers and the system stands only through fear, they look down upon European people and life and when the governments blindly allow this culture to reside on our shores they think it's because they have the same values for freedom. Most do not recognise what democracy is, for them it's just an easy platform for the forgiving hearted PC correctness governments. Which turns into a political battle that could have been down without and the rest of society does not realise until the newspaper says, from now on don't offend a Muslim take your cross off. The politicians create a sitting duck scenario for the middle class, and we have no vote to say no back. If these people want to fit into Europe why make a fuss to change it all?

Had to rewite this part makes more sense now.

Which turns into a political battle that could have been done without and the rest of a majority society knowing until the newspaper says for example, ‘from now on don't offend a Muslim take your cross off.’ The politicians create a sitting duck scenario for the middle class, and we have no vote on it and everything becomes disproportionate. If these people want to fit into Europe why make a fuss to change it all? There is a hidden agenda and the leaders are too dumb to realise.

Robert - this isn't the first time you've requested that Hagia Spohia be returned to Christianity

-posted by schmegel

why stop at the Hagia Sophia? Some of us are "requesting" the return of Constantinople/Tsarigrad, all of Anatolia and the repatriation of those "Turkish secularists" back to the wind-blown steppes of Turan from whence they rode out so many crescent moons ago.
It's a noble aim- why not shoot for it?

Let's go for the moon

it could happen so easily

The Spanish will never learn.

'NYT' Sunday Preview: Trying to Get Cat Stevens To Back or Bash Hamas

By E&P Staff

Published: January 05, 2007 4:20 PM ET

NEW YORK Most of Deborah Solomon's interview with once and current folk-rock singer Cat Stevens -- known for many years now as Yusuf Islam -- for this coming Sunday's New York Times is amiable enough, as he discusses his recent return to recording and his funding of Muslim schools in England.

But then she raises the obviously still touchy issue of attempts abroad to link him to funding various extremist groups, including Hamas. He had just said he still sells about 1.5 million albums a year netting him a small fortune. What does he think of Hamas?

"That's an extremely loaded question," he replies. Pressed further, he says, "I have never supported a terrorist group or any group that did other than charity and good to humankind."

Solomon responds by saying, fine, but many Americans would like moderate Muslims, such as himself, to denounce the extremists. Wouldn't he at least say he has "contempt" for Hamas?

"I wouldn't put those words in my mouth," he complains. "I wouldn't say anything on that issue. I'm here to talk about peace. I'm a man who does want peace for this world," says the man who wrote "Peace Train," adding, "and I don't think you will achieve that by putting people into corners and asking them very, very difficult questions about very contentious issues."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E&P Staff

Spain is one of my adopted countries - and I must say that the 1 million estimate is,from my own observational experience way over the mark. I have heard other estimates of about 1/2 a million which is probably closer the correct figure.

The secret counter weapon that we have here in Spain against the immigration/invasion weapon that our mislim friends are now carrying out more successfully in Norther European countries is NO SOCIAL SECURITY. Quite simply if you dont work here you dont eat which tends to keep the vermin numbers at a controllable level. They are mostly used in the south for arable type temporary employment that no one else will do so they are not part of society and have in the main kept their place until this incident about the cathedral in cordoba. The north could learn a lot from the Spanish model and although I do see the PC sickness in this country it is far less prevalent seeming to prefer a colder damper climate.

Unfortunately for the Bishop, the suggestion of "private prayer" will be used as a 'get in free' ticket. Muslims will be in the church all night, using the corners of the church for restrooms and hymn books for toilet paper. The prayer rugs will appear as well as painted arrows on marble floors, pointing the way to Mecca. Ugly scenes will take place as the 'faithful' insist on praying through the Mass. Police will have to be called in to remove them, engaged in their private prayers. Then, the bombings will begin. I have a sick feeling about this one. The Catholic Church has been trying to kick the can down the road. Will the Spanish care enough to make a stand or will they go to the countryside for get-away weekends?

Quite frankly, I think that we should all pull out the movie, "The Mission" and watch it. I am predicting, only humanly, that some Christians will "turn the other cheek" and became martyrs, and others will take up the sword in physical resistance. It will be bloody and awful. It will make the Crusades look like a picnic.

This demand is misplaced as Hagia Sophia is not used as a mosque, and hasn't been since the secular Turkish state under Ataturk desacralised it and converted it into a museum.

Turkish secularism ought to get more support from the contributors to this site. For all the debate about headscarves and veils going on in Britain and France these days, let's not forget that they were banned from state organisations in Turkey more than 50 years ago.

Posted by: schmegel

Okay, so because the Mohammedans in Turkey have turned Agia Sophia, a Church considered to be one of Orthodox Christianity's most sacred places of worship, into a museum rather than a mosque, we should be supporting 'secular' Turkey.

So whether it is a mosque or a muesum, what does that matter to those of us who still believe in God, and who hold God's house of worship to be sacred?

This secular Turkey mr/mrs/miss schmegel says we should be supporting, that occupies 40% of Cyprus' territory, having expelled 200 000 Cypriots from their homes, having converted Orthodox Churches in the occupied north into mosques, with other Churches being used as military store houses, or barns for the peasant Anatolian settlers, and the 'luckier' Churches such as Ayios Mamas in Famagusta being kept as, well as mr/mrs/miss schmegel likes to put it a museum not a mosque, so hoooraaah for secular Turkey. Let's give them all the support they need. They're our friends. Forget about the occupation of Cyprus, forget about the aggression towards Greece - the constant violations of Greek airspace etc., forget about the history of the Turks' ancestors - the Ottomans, and their genocide of the 1.5 million Armenians, coupled with the Turks absolute refusal to recognise this slaughter of 1.5 million human lives as genocide (although given that there is violence but no civil war in Iraq, it's all a question of terminology these days, isn't it?).

So yes, let's give secular Turkey our full support. Let's welcome them with open arms into the European Union, let's revive the Ottoman empire, and let's let them convert our Churches and Monasteries into barns or museums - that's acceptable after all isn't it, mr/mrs/miss schmegel?

I came across this bit in Wikipedia about the Cordoba Cathedral (the one at which Muslims are pleading with the pope for permission to pray), previously mosque, previously St. Vincent's Cathedral:

The site was that of the Visigothic cathedral of St. Vincent. When the forces of Tariq ibn-Ziyad had first occupied Córdoba in 711, it had been equitable that they and the Christians share the cathedral space, according to the historian ar-Râzî, who documented the mosque's history. But with the establishment of the Umayyads in exile as emirs of Córdoba, the compromise space was no longer sufficient. Negotiations between the Emir and the bishop of Córdoba, eased by the promise of a large cash payment as well as permission to rebuild one of the extramural churches that had been leveled at the time of the conquest, resulted in the Christians' relinquishing their half of St. Vincent, which was razed and the new mosque, in its first phase, built upon the foundations (Wolf).

Apparently the Islamic takeover of St. Vincent's was begun in exactly this fashion: the conquering muslims offered to "share" the space as a place "unique in the world" where christians and muslims can pray side by side. Then -- whoops -- hey, christians, move over please, we need a bit more space. Then they knocked down the church and build the big mosque.

Elsewhere I read that the magnificent Cordoba mosque was build using materials taken from the original St. Vincent's, an old Roman temple, and dozens of churches around the city. A monument to recycling, among other things.

Three other things to note:

1. When the Christians took over they did not raze the structure to rebuild the church -- the Cathedral is build inside the Mosque, which still stands today. Though there have been moves over the centuries to have the mosque demolished the christians of the city have defended keeping the structure intact.

2. Islamic apologists make a fuss about the reign of Islam in Andalusia as an example of Islamic tolerance when dominant. It's a big subject and there is plenty written to say otherwise, but I'll make one note about the claim that, while the Jews were severely oppressed under christian rule in the region, the Muslims were kind and generous, and the Jews thrived. It is interesting to note, in light of this claim, that the Synagogue of Cordoba was not build during the Caliphate, but 100 years after the Christians recaptured the city, and before even the new Cathedral was build. Wonder why, if the Jews thrived so greatly under the generous, peaceful Islamic state, they waited until the city was ruled by cruel, oppressive christians, to build their synagogue?

3. There seems to be a worldwide movement by Islamists to build enormous mosques immediately next to important christian structures, designed to overwhelm architecturally. Taller spires, more magnificent adornments, space for many times more worshippers ... It sort of follows the same pattern, doesn't it? They begin by saying, "hey, we're all worshipping God here, let's just do it side by side", and slowly encroach, claim rights, complain about how unfairly they are being treated, until they are the only game in town. I think the Cordoba Cathedral/Mosque/Cathedral history is a pretty good indicator of things to come.

Note, Robert, that the basic information above is from Wikipedia. Remember our debate about how unreliable Wikipedia is as a source of information? It is, but it can be better than other "official" sources. Encyclopedia Brittanica's online article on the cathedral, in contrast, just says that it was "originally a mosque", and goes on about how fantastic the moque was. Now which encyclopedia is gives a more accurate description of the origin of the structure?

So, it seems that on the site of Cordoba Cathedral there was originally a Roman pagan temple. So why not hand it back to the pagans. And if there are no takers, convert it into a nice museum, like Hagia Sophia.

One of the good things the Bolsheviks did was convert Saint Isaac's 'Orthodox Christian' cathedral in Saint Petersburg ('Petrograd' at the time)into a 'Museum of Atheism'.

Racism here again. 'StillFedUp' - 'Turks are monkeys'. 'November1981' - Turks should be eradicated, or at least ethnically cleansed from Turkey. The latter on the basis of the fact that they ultimately came from somewhere else; the same argument the Jihadists use to claim back 'Al-Andalus'.

Mr/s GreekFrenchInfidel - why attach believing in 'God' to Orthodox Christianity.

I've met many Orthodox Christians and Jesus's message doesn't seem to have had much effect on them. They are all filled with anti-Semitic, nationalist, racist, and sectarian hate. They hate Catholics and Protestants far more than they hate Muslims; but they hate Jews most of all. The word 'pogrom' comes from that most anti-Semitic of nations - Russia. In fact, it was Russian Orthodox 'Christians' who wrote (forged) the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', so beloved of Nazis and Muslims.

In Russia there are racist murders every week. These are encouraged by the vile racist Russian nationalists who dominate commentary in the media. The Orthodox Church does nothing but ferment this nationalism. Every Russian nationalist proudly proclaims 'Orthodoxy'. It is often Armenians (Orthodox Christians, by the way) who are the victims of these murders. By allying itself with racist nationalist hysteria the Russian Orthodox Church is allying itself with the devil.

the bishops FEAR? christians should walk in where angels fear to tread

Posted by: schmegel
It is often Armenians (Orthodox Christians, by the way) who are the victims of these murders. By allying itself with racist nationalist hysteria the Russian Orthodox Church is allying itself with the devil

Russia has seen a marked rise in Islamophobia in recent years, with a series of attacks on "internal refugees" from the Russian-occupied Caucasus Muslim states.

Where are the links to support your claims

Crammed amid the gray monoliths of Moscow's 1980 Olympics complex, the Sobornaya Mosque was the only Islamic house of worship that was allowed to function under the Soviet regime. It stood largely empty then, filling up only with the occasional large foreign delegation from Islamic countries.

Today, its pale blue walls cannot contain the hundreds who come to pray. On Fridays and holy days, it overflows with worshipers, leaving many forced to kneel on newspapers outside, their foreheads pressing against the concrete.

Zabir Valeev was attending midday prayers on a recent Friday with his 8-year-old son, and could hardly hide his frustration. "We shouldn't have to stand out here in the cold," said Valeev, 32. "What does it show to my son that there is no place in Moscow for us to pray?"

The Sobornaya is one of four mosques in the Russian capital to serve a Muslim population of about 2.5 million -- the largest of any European city. Muslim leaders say attempts to build more have been blocked by local officials, who fear angering Moscow's ethnic Russian majority.

"In the Soviet period, people were forbidden from practicing their religions. Now they are embracing their faith again," said Ildar Alyautdinov, an imam at the Sobornaya Mosque. "But to have only four mosques in Moscow -- obviously that's not enough. ... We deserve more respect."

Across Russia, Islam is thriving. Experts say the country is undergoing a startling change and that if current trends continue, more than half of Russia's population will be Muslim by midcentury.

"Russia is going through a religious transformation that will be of even greater consequence for the international community than the collapse of the Soviet Union," said Paul Goble, an expert on Islam in Russia and a research associate at the University of Tartu in Estonia.

As in many Western countries with growing Muslim populations, tensions are also on the rise. Ethnic Russians fear their country is losing its traditional identity; Muslims are offended by widespread discrimination and a lack of respect for their faith.

Russia's Muslims are extremely diverse, including Volga Tatars, the myriad ethnicities of the North Caucasus and newly arrived immigrants from the former Soviet republics of Central Asia. But they all share an important demographic -- birth rates far higher than that of Russia's Christian Orthodox, ethnic Slavs.

Russia's overall population is dropping at a rate of 700,000 people a year, largely due to the short life spans and low birth rates of ethnic Russians. The country's 2002 census shows that the national fertility rate is 1.5 children per woman, far below the 2.1 children per woman needed to maintain the country's population of about 143 million. The rate in Moscow is even lower, at 1.1 children per woman.

But Russia's Muslims are bucking that trend. The fertility rate for Tatars living in Moscow, for example, is six children per woman, Goble said, while the Chechen and Ingush communities are averaging 10 children per woman. And hundreds of thousands of Muslims from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan have been flocking to Russia in search of work.

Since 1989, Russia's Muslim population has increased by 40 percent to about 25 million. By 2015, Muslims will make up a majority of Russia's conscript army, and by 2020 a fifth of the population.

"If nothing changes, in 30 years people of Muslim descent will definitely outnumber ethnic Russians," Goble said.

For many ethnic Russians, the prospect of becoming a minority in their country is unthinkable, and nationalist sentiments are on the rise. "Russia is historically a Slavic, Orthodox Christian land, and we need to make sure it stays that way," said Alexander Belov, head of the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, an increasingly powerful interest group that has organized dozens of rallies in recent months.

Most Muslims living in Russia are not immigrants, but the indigenous people of lands long ago seized by the expanding Russian empire. And Islam is recognized as one of Russia's official religions, along with Orthodox Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism. But few nationalists make a distinction between immigrants from former Soviet countries and non-Slavic Russian citizens.

Attacks on mosques have been increasing. In September, an imam in the southern city of Kislovodsk was shot dead outside his home. During days of rioting in August, mobs chased Chechens and other migrants from the Caucasus region out of the northwestern town of Kondopoga.

Many Russians associate Islam with extremists from Chechnya, who have carried out dozens of bombings and other attacks against civilians. Separatism began in Chechnya as a largely nationalist movement, but has been increasingly influenced by the ideas of radical Islamist organizations such as al Qaeda.

Sensing the nationalist mood, Russian authorities have begun to crack down. This fall, four Russian regions introduced mandatory classes in Orthodox Christianity in all schools. On Wednesday, the Russian Cabinet announced a new law that will ban foreigners, most of them Muslims, from working in retail stalls and markets, starting next year. Thursday, the director of the Federal Migration Service, Konstantin Romodanovsky, said foreigners should not be allowed to create "ethnic enclaves" in which they outnumber "native Russians" in any district or region of the country.

Belov said non-Slavs, no matter what their citizenship, should be restricted from living in "traditional Russian lands."

The Orthodox church hierarchy has denounced nationalist and anti-Islamic statements. "Orthodox Christians, Muslims and members of other traditional churches have lived in Russia side by side for centuries. Russia has never had religious wars and, I hope, it never will," Orthodox patriarch Alexey II said last summer.

Muslim leaders say the nationalist rhetoric reflects a clear lack of understanding of Russian history.

"The Muslims of Russia have roots here; we have been part of Russia for centuries," said Rusham Abbyasov, a spokesman for Russia's Council of Muftis, which represents Islam's spiritual leaders in the country. "It is not right to say that Russia is a Christian country. These people either don't know the history or they are ignoring it."

Abbyasov said one of the main reasons for antagonism toward Russian Muslims is their portrayals in the media. On Russian television, Muslims are most often portrayed as either criminals or religious radicals waging a holy war against Christians. One of Russia's bestselling novels last year, "The Mosque of Notre Dame de Paris," depicted a mid-21st century Europe where Islam was the state religion and Christians were forced to live in ghettos.

"The image of Muslims presented in the media is very distorted," Abbyasov said. "When people hear the phrase 'Allahu Akbar' ("God is great" in Arabic), they immediately think of people shooting at them or blowing themselves up."

The danger of growing anti-Islamic sentiment, Goble said, is that it threatens to push Russian Muslims further outside the mainstream and into the arms of radicals. Because of the Soviet legacy of religious repression, the majority of people living in Russia with Muslim backgrounds are largely secular -- attached to Islam mostly as part of their ethnic identity. But with interest in Islam surging, that also leaves them open to being influenced by extremist ideas, he said.

In recent years, Russia has expelled dozens of foreigners accused of preaching radical Islam on its territory. "People who know they are Muslims but don't know exactly what that means could be radicalized, especially if they feel excluded from Russian society. It's a real threat," he said.

Goble said Western governments need to do more to encourage Russia to integrate Muslims into society and avoid discrimination. "When Muslims are in the majority in Russia, they'll remember whether we spoke out for their rights or failed to," he said.

schmegel

I've met many Orthodox Christians and Jesus's message doesn't seem to have had much effect on them. They are all filled with anti-Semitic, nationalist, racist, and sectarian hate. They hate Catholics and Protestants far more than they hate Muslims; but they hate Jews most of all. The word 'pogrom' comes from that most anti-Semitic of nations - Russia. In fact, it was Russian Orthodox 'Christians' who wrote (forged) the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', so beloved of Nazis and Muslims

orthodox christians are not anti semetic russia is not allying with islam its people like you who are allies with islam who hate orthodox christians so much you would rather fight russia to get rid of orthodoxy and help the turks it was people like you who hated orthodox christianity so much that you helped bin laden against russia and that made alquieda strong the only devil is people like you

Posted by: schmegel
One of the good things the Bolsheviks did was convert Saint Isaac's 'Orthodox Christian' cathedral in Saint Petersburg ('Petrograd' at the time)into a 'Museum of Atheism'.

Why is it good that a orthodox church was converted to a museum ? do you hate orthodox christianity that much? this proofs that your just no better then a islamic facist you want churches to be atheist museums are you a finatical atheist of something?

'shiva'

You ask me where the links are to support my claims, then you lift some article from somewhere without referencing it, as if it is your own work. That is, unless you actually went out in Moscow and interviewed these people in order to write your comments on this thread.

Anyway, here are some links.

http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/print/?nid=660
(About the tendency of Russian Nationalists to murder Armenians.)

http://xeno.sova-center.ru/
(A Russian site documenting racist attacks in Russia - has a section in English.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4969296.stm
(About racist attacks in Russia.)

http://blogs.salon.com/0003494/2005/01/27.html
(About Russian Orthodox Church supporting nationalism and anti-semitism.)

Regarding complicity of the Orthodox Church, you need to read the Russian Orthodox Church's official magazine called 'Russkiy Dom' and watch the television programme of the same name (in Russian, course). They are full of nationalist, racist and anti-semtitic hatred, mixed with esoteric weirdness.

The point you seem to be trying to make is that Russian racist attacks are the product of a rising Islamophobia. This is not true at all. As the links I have provided show, the vast majority of racist attacks in Russia are against non-Muslims, whether Armenians, Chinese people in markets, or black African students. The attacks are purely on the basis of people's racial appearance.

Dear Greek Gurl,

I am not the devil. Nor I did not support Bin Laden in Afghanistan against the Russians. The exact opposite is the case. I supported the secular government of Afghanistan supported by the Soviet Union (which was Atheist, not Orthodox). It was this government that Bin Laden fought against, with the financial and moral backing of American Neo-Cons (people akin to the fellows who run this site).

I would like to (genuinely) apologise to all good Orthodox Christians who do not fit the descriptions in my previous posts, and wish you all a merry Orthodox Christmas.

However, I stand by what I said about the Russian Orthodox Church. I shouldn't have applied my criticism to all Orthodox believers (I've met some wonderful Orthodox Armenians, Egyptian Copts, etc.)

I don't know too much about the Greek Orthodox Church. But I do recall from the news a few years ago, the reaction in Greece to the (previous) Pope's visit there was full of viscious insulting hatred, far worse than the reaction to the current Pope's visit to Istanbul.

schmegal the reason there was protest against pope pauls visit years ago was becuase some orthodox preist still mistrust the pope because of the schism and some beleived him to be the anti christ back then i dont know why that is

but you cant just critised the russian orthodox church alone what about the catholic church ? didnt the vatican in ww2 protect nazis in argentina infact wasnt hitler a catholic? does it mean all catholics are anti semits? what about when the croats catholics killed 2 million serbs in ww2? and as for pope benedit he prayed over the grave of ataturk when he visited Turkey.