Blogger gets 4 years for insulting Islam

By Nadi Abou El-Magd for AP:

ALEXANDRIA, Egypt — An Egyptian blogger was convicted Thursday and sentenced to four years in prison for insulting Islam, the Prophet Muhammad and Egypt’s president, sending a chill through fellow Internet writers who fear a government crackdown.

Abdel Kareem Nabil, a 22-year-old former student at Egypt’s Al-Azhar University, an Islamic institution, was a vocal secularist and sharp critic of conservative Muslims in his blog. He also lashed out often at Al-Azhar — the most prominent religious center in Sunni Islam — calling it “the university of terrorism” and accusing it of encouraging extremism.

[…]

Judge Ayman al-Akazi issued the verdict in a brief, five-minute session in a court in the Mediterranean city of Alexandria. He sentenced Nabil to three years in prison for insulting Islam and the prophet and inciting sectarian strife and another year for insulting President Hosni Mubarak.

Nabil, wearing a gray T-shirt and sitting in the defendants pen, gave no reaction and his face remained still as the verdict was read. He made no comment to reporters as he was immediate led outside to a prison truck.

Seconds after he was loaded into the truck and the door closed, an Associated Press reporter heard the sound of a slap from inside the vehicle and a shriek of pain from Nabil.

His lawyer, Ahmed Seif el-Islam, said he would appeal the verdict, saying the ruling will “terrify other bloggers and will negative impact on the freedom of expression in Egypt.” Nabil had faced a possible maximum sentence of up to nine years in prison.

Egypt arrested a number of bloggers last year, most of them for connections to Egypt’s pro-democracy reform movement. Nabil was arrested in November, and while other bloggers were freed, Nabil was put on trial – a sign of the sensitivity of his writings on religion.

Alaa Abdel-Fattah, a pro-reform blogger who was detained for six weeks last year, said the conviction for insulting Mubarak will “have a chilling effect on the rest of the bloggers.”

“We (the Egyptian people) are enduring oppression, poverty and torture, so the least we can do is insult the president,” he said.

Interesting point.

The judge said Nabil insulted Islam’s Prophet Muhammad with a piece he wrote in late 2005 after riots in which angry Muslim worshippers attacked a Coptic Christian church over a play put on by Christians deemed offensive to Islam.

“Muslims revealed their true ugly face and appeared to all the world that they are full of brutality, barbarism and inhumanity,” Nabil said of the riots. He called Muhammad and his 7th century followers, the Sahaba, “spillers of blood” for their teachings on warfare – a comment cited by the judge.

In a later essay, not cited by the court, Nabil clarified his comments, saying Muhammad was “great” but that his teachings on warfare and other issues should be viewed as a product of their times.

Big no, no.

He blasted Al-Azhar, calling it the “other face of the coin of al-Qaida” and called for the university to be dissolved or turned into a secular institution. He said it “stuffs its students’ brains and turns them into human beasts … teaching them that there is no place for differences in this life” and criticized its policy of segregating male and female students.

Sigh.

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Comments

  1. says

    I wonder how long before we all end up like this person?

    You know we sit here and say what’s on our minds daily, but what a tragedy it is for the few people with courage in the mid east that question their culture and religion.

    My heart goes out to this blogger and I only hope that he is somehow going to be a catalyst for more brave souls to step up, however unlikely that is.

    More Abdel Kareem Nabi’s need to be found.

  2. says

    Islam will not be able to moderate itself. Necessary ideas and traditions for an evolution or Reformation are not in place, nor will they ever be accepted.

    Islam will have to be defeated in all dimensions it tries to dominate: political, religious, legal and social.

    All four dimensions of Islamic assertion must be destroyed.

  3. says

    What did Nabil do in insulting Muhammed? Say Muhammed shouldn’t molest children by marrying a child bride?
    Say Muhammed shouldn’t rape women he widowed after he murdered their husbands who didn’t believe?
    Say Muhammed shouldn’t plagarize Christian and Hebrew Scriptures and make Muslims the elect people?

    For him to insult Muhammed, he must have called him not a murdering, sex deviant, maniac as that is what Muhammed is worshipped by Islam for being.

    Was Bill Clinton a Muslim (jk)

  4. says

    Does the U.S. support Egypt ? If so, we should cut-em off and thrown out the U.N. for this dispicable form of Justice. Islam is insanity.

  5. says

    One wonders if George Bush will take this up with Mubarrak. This seems a bit off-message w/r/t the ME demmocracy project.

    One wonders if this might persuade Bush that paying the $1.8 a year in jizyah to Cairo might be worth a rethink.

    Don’t hold your breath.

    The excellent Sandmonkey has been following this case from the beginning:

    http://sandmonkeyblog.com/

  6. says

    be happy,

    most that post on JW, FFI and uncountable other websites are in great company with our insults to the cult of islam that worships evil vileness…..

    war with the cult of islam is inevitable…….

    are you prepared???? if not, you need to be. you need to know how to get from work to your home under war conditions. You need a place for your family to gather if your home is not accessible. you need to know how to leave notes to give info to your family without others being able to determine what is in the notes. war is coming……….and you have the responsibility to prtect your family, neighborhood, city, state and country………prepare for war…………

    are you armed??? if not, go today and buy firearms and get firearm traiing. Obtain your firearm carry license and carry a firearm at all times so you and your faimly are not gunned down by a muslin as in Salt Lake City or run down by a muslim in a cab as in Nashville……….The old adage:

    “I would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.”

    carries more weight today than ever.

    are you ready??? this war can strat at any time. if iran is attacked, war in America will surely follow………….

    I pray to the one true God to bless America, Israel, England, Canada, Australia, Darfur, Porte Rico and our Fighting Forces across the world, to keeps us safe and Free and destroy our enemies.

    The Texican.
    God Family America and Freedom the only choice at any cost.

  7. says

    Actual moderate Muslims go to jail or are murdered. That’s all you need to know about moderate Islam. Kareem’s a perfectly reasonable and modern person, and therefore a dire threat to the status quo.

    I pray he survives prison.

  8. says

    I forgot, this is a classic example of Islam trying to prove to the world, they are a Government. Can anyone imagine the U.N. allowing such a government in the World Trade Organization ? It won’t work, this religion has to be banned from all international concerns; plain and simple.

  9. says

    Seconds after he was loaded into the truck and the door closed, an Associated Press reporter heard the sound of a slap from inside the vehicle and a shriek of pain from Nabil.

    The conviction is bad enough, but what makes them use physical force on him?

  10. says

    Because that is what they do in Egypt. Torture is routine and accepted.

    One thing is for sure.

    You really, never, ever want to be locked up in Egypt. The police always get their confessions. No three guesses how.

  11. says

    Texican:
    Good advice. Think about what you would do to get food if you can’t leave the house or electricity is not available. Grow a garden, get pigs and chickens if you can, there are butcher shops around that will take care of the meat so you can store it. Get a generator.
    Websites in Hurricane prone areas have info on how to get by when all H**L breaks loose. Don’t forget cash money. If things get crazy you may not have access to your bank account. One of Clinton’s legacy’s was to allow the Feds to sieze bank accounts in a dire emergency.
    WorldNetDaily.com has a really good column about surviving a disaster. Including preparing you and your family for keeping yourself safe from fallout. That is if you are not in the blast zone, but 50 miles downwind.
    I once read a Louis L’Amour novel where he talked about how women should look out for themselves and not expect someone else to do it for them.
    He called it watching your back trail. Just as you keep track of someone following you in a parking lot, be aware of who you are dealing with at a convenience store, etc.
    Don’t trust any Muslim. They Mean it when they say Jihad is a personal struggle.
    In spite of what the Feds say this is a Jihad of one.

  12. says

    He will most likely be killed in prison. Its as good as a death sentence, mark my words.

    Another topic: Anybody interested in answering this?

    The Qur’an repeatedly emphasizes that defensive war”fighting to protect oneself against invading enemies”is the only kind of combat sanctioned (2:190 – 191). In numerous other examples, it teaches that the use of force should be a last resort (2:192, 4:90); that normal relations between peoples, nations and states, whether Muslim or not, should be peaceful (49:13); that necessary wars must be limited in time and space (2:190); that maximum effort must be applied at all times to advance the cause of peace (10:25); that whatever means are undertaken to work for peace during a conflict (such as mediation and arbitration) must be attempted over and over again until resolution is achieved (8:61); that freedom of religion must be granted to every one (2:256), and so on.

    So l ask you where do you get your info from, can you please provide a link as l have always done.

    You are giving me verses of war and l am giving you verses of peace, you chose which you you want to follow.

  13. says

    A_Plague_on_Both_Houses:

    >>Islam will have to be defeated in all >>dimensions it tries to dominate: political, >>religious, legal and social.
    >>
    >>All four dimensions of Islamic assertion must >>be destroyed.

    Dont disagree.

    Just suppose I was Satan.
    And I wished to extend my kingdom.

    I would say to a minor minion, “If I start a new campaign that was 100% evil, all humans would reject it without question. So what I will do instead, is make it only 20% evil, 80% good. There will be humans who argue for the 80% good, allowing me to slip the 20% evil into their society”.

    And that is the problem with Islam.
    I see very clearly we need to reject it in its entirety. But others do not.
    So meanwhile our western societies are contaminated by Islam.

  14. says

    Wonder if the Egyptian government would have bothered with this law suite had THEY been excluded from this blogger’s hit list. Not that the Egyptian government didn’t deserve it.

    Oh no — should I be worried?

  15. says

    sheik yer’mani

    I notice you completely skipped over Sura Nine or Al-Tawba. That’s the answer to your question. 9.29 built an empire which spanned half of the known world, but you seem obsessed with the abrogated and ignored Meccan suras.

  16. says

    Can’t you hear the outcry from the U.(seless) N.(incompoops) over this howling injustice?

    Ooops…sorry. It was the dogs next door.

    If you want to register a complaint with the Egyptian Embassy you can do it at…why, none of the urls seem to functioning today. How odd.

  17. says

    Beagle,

    I realize my post above could easily be misunderstood. It was an answer I got back from a Muhammedan poster on another thread after I posted this:

    The Messenger of Allah…would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them…'” (Muslim, Book 019, Number 4294).But there’s more:
    “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not” (Qur’an 2:216).

    “Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle…'” (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).

    And this came back from the Mohammed worshipper:

    This verse was revealed in Medina when he was powerful, not when he was persecuted in Mecca. It was a direct answer to the thought you can force people to change their faith.

    – No 9:5 is directed at enemies in a full scale war. If you read on you will see if they cease hostilities, then peace is what’s ordered.

    -You’re right, only giving the message is allowed, you can’t force people.

    – This is a hadith regarding an Islamic state being attacked by an aggressor. The fourth option as the Quran states is to stop hostilities and leave the land they attacked.

    – The fighting referred to in this hadith encompasses moral and social struggle, not military. He’s reffering to fighting disbeleif with truth. Christ said he only came to bring the sword and divide brother among brother. Of course that’s not what he “meant” but on the face of it, it would appear so to one unfamiliar with the text and the fact Christ spoke in many parables.

    – The hadith about apostasy is referring to apostates who become traitors and committ acts of treason. Other statements back this up. Several people left Islam while Muhammad was alive and he didn’t kill any of them.

    – Ibn Ishaaq’s testimony has been rejected by 99% of scholars. He often included known liars in a narration chain like Muhammad Al Hajjaj who made up the myth about Asma bint Marwan being killed for making fun of Muhammad.

  18. says

    Here is a real hero and someone who could show the way to true reform. Unfortunately, he will likely be murdered in prison and officially forgotten. Should that happen, Abdel Kareem Nabil would be a true martyr unlike the phony martyrs who blow themselves up and kill children. Let us hope someone will then take up his banner, for the sake of the Egyptians and for all of us.

  19. says

    Am convinced the islamic bastards here would love to hurt almost every blogger here if they could.

    Those of you who are unsubmissive infidels would suffer the most.

    These seething, hate filled and hatefull bastards would not tolerate us for a minute, if they could get away with it.

    Are you still wondering what you are fighting for ?

  20. says

    Intimidation through “imprisonment”.

    Well, putting someone behind bars, or cutting off someone’s head is NOT going to silence the Truth about Islam — it only confirms it.

  21. says

    His lawyer, Ahmed Seif el-Islam, said he would appeal the verdict, saying the ruling will “terrify other bloggers and will negative impact on the freedom of expression in Egypt.”

    That is not unforseen, but rather their exact intention.

    On a side note, how many billions is the US approproiating for that cesspool known as Egypt next year??

  22. says

    His lawyer, Ahmed Seif el-Islam, said he would appeal the verdict, saying the ruling will “terrify other bloggers and will negative impact on the freedom of expression in Egypt.”

    In one sentence the lawyer summed up the exact purpose of this particular law. My emphasis would be on the word terrify. When it was enacted, the legislators knew exactly what it would do. It seems to be based on Mohammed’s ordering of the murder of a poet who insulted him.

  23. says

    Amazing contrast between Mo the Madman, and Jesus Christ our Savior.

    Pelayo pointed out that Mo ordered the murder of a poet who insulted him — but look at what Jesus said/did to those responsible for crucifying him:

    Jesus said this while hanging from the cross, “Father, forgive them.”

    The choice is clear.

  24. says

    This pretty much answers the question as to why we rarely hear the voices of “moderates” in the Islamic world. Anyone who speaks out in any way, even to make what we in the west would judge a minor, harmless comment, is in danger of being carted off to prison or losing their life (which I won’t be surprised if this man does). There can never be “reform” in Islam as long as this is the case.

  25. says

    I wonder how long before we all end up like this person?”

    Little be little, America is inching closer and closer. For example:

    “As part of the Democrats ethics “reform” bill in the Senate (read: eroding free speech) the Dems put a clause in it which would have required anyone with an audience of over 500 people, who discusses any type of politics to register with the FEC and to submit quarterly reports. Yes, we’re talking churches, radio programs, blogs etc. And guess what? 43, count em’ FORTY THREE Democrats voted in favor of the bill which contained that clause.

    There are only 51 Democrats in the Senate and one of those is in the hospital in a comma. (the rest seem to be in the same state, just not in the hospital). Luckily ALL Republicans and a handful of Democrats voted against it and it went down to defeat.

    So everytime you see Nancy Pelosi on the tube or hear her on the radio think “Progressive” Congressional Caucus, Demoratic Socialists of America, etc. and KNOW that their power is all about your loss of liberty.

    And yes the Repubs suck too but at least there is a chance of shaming them into following the Constitution, the Dems just want to wipe their asses with it and flush.” – Gagdad Bob, One Cosmos blog

  26. says

    ….OK you anti war protestors, you Michael Moore types, you Kerry,Pelosi,Murtagh types, you CNN, CNBC, and other MSM types, you Rosie O’Donnell types, you school administators who cave in to Islamic demand types,you Nation of Islam types, You wannabee convert types, you court justices who believe the captured terrorists more than you believe in the US Constitution or Bill of Rights types…..this is what you have to look forward to when Islam takes over your neighborhood.

    …You know who you are….Ban Muslim immigration now…

  27. says

    What a brave and perceptive fellow, Abdel Kareem Nabil, and only 22. Makes you almost think there could be hope for mankind.

  28. says

    “We (the Egyptian people) are enduring oppression, poverty and torture, so the least we can do is insult the president,” he said.

    and

    “We (the American people) are perpetuating that oppression and torture (of bloggers)by sending money and arms to that self-same Egypt and its president so that Egypt can be well armed against its enemies(?) What enemies? Israel? bloggers?

    To keep Egypt from once again attacking Israel (blackmail, extortion) with whom it has a “peace” deal?

    If the Mubarak dictator ship goes, the Muz brotherhood is there to jump into the vacuum. So we’re caught in the middle.

    A problem for which there is no apparent solution.

  29. says

    I wonder if someone can get Rep. Goode to circulate a petition in Congress calling for the release of this unfortunate man.

    Congressman Keith Ellison should be asked to write the preamble to the petition, and then passed to all other Congressmen and Senators.

    Afterwards, the petition should be presented to the leadership of CAIR, and other Muslim civil rights groups in the U.S.

    This should all be done very publicly, and Fox News and Glen Beck should be notified of what’s happening.

    As for the rest of the Media, it’s doubtful that they’ll do anything until an Israeli court arrests a journalist for insulting Judaism.

    I hope that something gets done to help this young man before he’s murdered in prison — which will likely happen.

  30. says

    musthuntcowboy
    “Robert, why don’t we have right to distribute material, which is not false, about Islam? Why do I have to care about Islam is following me everywhere in my own country?” posted above

    I checked out the website of the people who are doing this, providing students with information on Islam in the schools. While I may not agree with all of their ideas, they have a right to speak out.
    I e-mailed them and sent them here and to Anti-CAIR and encouraged them to have the teacher come here.

    We need to monitor this if we can.

    Also, is there anyone out there who could maybe get that blogger’s stuff and keep it up on the net? Or would that hurt his appeal?
    Translated of course.

  31. says

    A JIHAD OF ONE! (Hoist a Jihadi on his own petard!)

    For a few minutes a day, you can jihad against Islam in three easy steps:

    1)Go to the following website:
    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm

    2) Print out several dozen copies of the web page (“The Proof of the Necessity of killing anyone who curses the prophet or finds fault with him”)on a single sheet of paper by printing on the front and back sides of the paper.

    3)Go to your local bookstore and discreetly slip the printed web page inside Korans and the works of apologists like Armstrong and Esposito.
    ===========
    Get the message of the hate-mongers and head choppers out, in their own words. And people can browse the website for “PROOF”!!!

    Folks, I did it after work and it took twenty minutes. AND WHAT A FEELING!!

  32. says

    So, you all have to keep written COngress – whether you believe them – or are for thm – or like them – send e-mails to say:

    —– NO ANTI-HATE BILL —–

    This will stop them once – but they’ll try to sneak it through at other times.

    One just has to keep sending emails from time to time. Set them straight.

    This is a site on how to find your Rep. and a map of the Conressional Districts:

    http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

    Save it to “Favorites” for future use.

  33. says

    As far as l am comcerned the Egyptian government is in same league as the muslim brotherhood terrorist group. neither want free speech, neither want to have reforms, or a way towards a Democratic country. so they are going to remain in the cesspool, and all Western government need to refrain from sending money to this disgusting country.

  34. says

    @ sheik yer’mami

    Sorry, I forgot to thank you for the post:

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm

    After I had read through it, I printed out a bunch of copies of that web page using both sides of a single sheet of paper, folded them in half, and on the way home from work, crammed them into as many Korans and apolgist books on Islam as I could find in the local bookstore.

    That is a most perfect webpage for dissemination of the evil that forms the basis of the death cult of Islam. The fastest way to convert infidels to Islamophobia is to let them read the words of these hate-mongers and head-choppers, sans editorializing.

    Ps. I love your website. Keep up the great work!

  35. says

    Assalamau Laikum all,

    Plague says “All four dimensions of Islamic assertion must be destroyed.”

    Plague, not even one dimension of Islam will be destroyed totally. The Amerike or Engliushman who could do this is not yet born …and never will be. Only Islam can destroy islam…and it may get close …but it will come together at the last moment…Allah SWT will forbid this….can there be any doubt? Only the Amerike doubts…there is no room in Islam for doubt of Allah..your grandaughters will love me for reminding you….just as your muslim son-in-laws will.

    Peoples …stop thinking…stop resisting..Allah SWT IS your saviour..for you Italians out there SI Allah’s out there for you too..be ready now is the time….. you need to know how to pray 5 times a day under war conditions. You need to know your stones and trees to hide behind ….a place for your family to gather if your home is not accessible…Texican is right on this count…know your Suras by heart …you may not have the koran handy at all times.

    I pray to the one true God to bless this earth with the flat earth policy…for peace will surely follow it.

  36. says

    sheik yer’mani

    Well, the last thing I’d want to do is convince a presently quiescent Muslim to go on a jihad in Somalia or something. If it works for him, great. There’s only so far non-Muslims can go in Islamic debates. At least you seem to be dealing with an honest broker, one who admits the violent passages exist. Which sounds ridiculous, but you can’t assume anything in such discussions.

    If he’ll admit such passages are used to encourage other Muslims to murder, that’s ultimately the point Robert makes over and over. Isn’t it?

  37. says

    A single member of Congress, preferably someone running for President, should deliver a Stop the Jizyah speech, and weaves into that speech all the reasons why the “Palestinians” whether of the Fast or Slow Jihad should be taken off the Infidel dole. If that person then lists all the reasons why Egypt, or the monstrous regime that runs Egypt, having helped to encourage anti-Americanism and of course antisemitism (with “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” serving as the basis for a television series, and blood libel charges routine on the television, radio, and in the press), having lost any claim — even pretending that it once had some — on our money, and demands that Egypt too be taken off the Infidel dole, and if the American public is informed about the ten trillion dollars that the Arab and Muslim membres of OPEC have taken in since 1973, and asks aloud why the rich Arabs and Muslims should not, if anyone is to be, the suppliers of aid to the poorer Arabs and Muslims, that person will leap to the top of the charts, and deserve it.

    It could be James Webb. It could be Tom Tancredo. It could be even – if he is very clever — Barack Obama. It could be any number of people. But someone has to introduce that word — Jizyah — and that concept — Stop the Jizyah or End the Jizyah — into what is called the “national conversation.”

    Once that is done, all sorts of things will follow.

  38. says

    “As part of the Democrats ethics ‘reform’ bill in the Senate (read: eroding free speech) the Dems put a clause in it which would have required anyone with an audience of over 500 people, who discusses any type of politics to register with the FEC and to submit quarterly reports. Yes, we’re talking churches, radio programs, blogs etc.”
    –Malinois

    This goes through at any time and we have to go to pamphleteering. No pride of authorship, however. clandestine printshop, clandestine printers.

    This was used during the Revolution in America, and in Russia under the Czar.

    Anonymous pamphlets and fliers telling the truth. Slipped into books at bookstore, libraries, etc.

    where there is a will, there is a way.

    Americans do not take readily to dictatorships–whether of Kings or Congress, or the Leftists Democratic Party (nor of the lame GOP).

  39. says

    I wonder how long before we all end up like this person?

    I’d say a long time. This is cuz it’ll be some time before Sharia is implemented here. Not so long until the dirty deed is done in EUrabia.

    But well before then, maybe even soon, what could happen to any of us is being revealed by a media angry at our thought crimes, who would hold us up as examples of hate criminals and Islamophobes.

    This could be done by a local paper, most likely a leftist alternative rag in your town, but maybe your major daily, but you could even be outted by a big-time operation like the New York Times or Fox News.

    Being unmasked as a non-Dhimmi would result in job loss, unemployability, being shunned by those around you, including your elected representatives.

    And then the physical part of the 6th Pillar of Islam would take effect. Especially if Bill Keller publicized your home address.

    2:216 * 4:74 * 9:111 * 8:12 * 4:96 * 56:22 * 38:51 * 55:56 * 56:22 * 8:74 * 9:2 * 5:50

    And don’t kid yourselves that using screen names keeps you safe enough to enjoy your 1st Amendment (if you’re an American) and speak freely.

    It would be easy enough to:

    1) Hack the Type Key service JW/DW uses to obtain the anonymous email account from which you set up your screen name

    2) Hack the email host to obtain your ISP user ID.

    3) Hack (or spoof) your ISP to obtain your real name.

    After these 3 easy steps, it’d a small matter to track down your residence and workplace. “Small matter” as in:

    Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.
    — Mohammed, serial murderer with sensitivities

  40. says

    If Congress has it in mind to pass laws prohibiting free speech, it must be remembered that a Congress passed a law prohibiting alcoholic beverages, known as Prohibition.

    Did the American people stop drinking alcoholic beverages then?

    A Pelosi congressional dictatorship will not be able stop political speech nor action.

    As for the mus, there ain’t enough of ’em here yet to start killing us for speaking out. They’re doing it already at random though, not targeted in most cases, and the “authorities” are keeping mum about the perps’ affiliation with Islam.

    But it’s so easy to figure out. This gets worse and the “authorities” will not be able to protect every mus (or any of ’em).

  41. says

    Hugh you seem to have a facination over Barack Obama. do you really think a Democrat presendial candidate is going to do something that smart? he is a typical liberal, and has to collect victims he can save from themselves, so they will vote for him.
    as a liberal he panders to victims, and therefore gets their vote. if you think there is a clever politician who will actually say Stop the Jizyah speech, you will not find it among the crop of liberal democrats.

  42. says

    The Religion of the Anti-Christ can’t stand even a TINY bit of light, not even from one of their own…

    Indeed they are men who truly love darkness and will attack and kill the light wherever it may try to pop up.

    Does not promote a very bright future for them.

  43. says

    No Naseem — Allah is not our savior. The god you serve is satan, and his false prophet, Mo, is in hell with him now.

    Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, and He is the One that YOU should be praying to. Not Allah.

  44. says

    Naseem You need to realize your cult of death isalm that was founded by the child rapist and killer of innocents, mohuammud will be destroyed. there is not one muslim country that can boast of any quality life. your mind has been twisted and is on the verge of collasp as well as so many muslims killing each other for their death god allah, may be roast in hell.

  45. says

    It’s so nice to know what awaits all of us with the arrival of sharia law.

    Seconds after he was loaded into the truck and the door closed, an Associated Press reporter heard the sound of a slap from inside the vehicle and a shriek of pain from Nabil.

    “The conviction is bad enough, but what makes them use physical force on him?”

    For the same reason they gun us down at every opportunity; Because they can.

    Good post, rational. There needs to be a whole set of litmus tests created for Ellison to either prove his good intentions or expose him for the radical Islamist he most likely is.

    “Indeed they are men who truly love darkness and will attack and kill the light wherever it may try to pop up.”

    Let them try and eclipse the sun then, if they can. Our star is life itself and sunlight will always be the best disinfectant.

  46. says

    sheik yer mami,

    Here is a rather quickly-prepared response to that apologist (below mentioned as “A”) which you quoted above:

    A:”The Qur’an repeatedly emphasizes that defensive war”fighting to protect oneself against invading enemies”is the only kind of combat sanctioned (2:190 – 191).”

    Here is a rebuttal of the general “defensive jihad” claim.

    The Quran does not say what the apologist is saying about 2:190-191. He is adding his own words. The Koran’s 9:29 refers to an aggressive raid on Tabuk. Verse 33:27 says Muslims will inherit a land upon which they had not yet trodden (and commentators say this is probably in reference to the attack on Khaybar”another aggressive raid by Muhammad to capture land and booty and women…in the raid Muhammad himself took 17-year-old Safiya for his “wife,” consumating the marriage and ordering the torture and beheading of her husband (in trying and extract the location of buried treasure). The rest of the women were distributed among the Muslims. Some of the Jews (these were farmers) were permitted to stay if they gave half of everything to Muhammad and the Muslims.

    A:”In numerous other examples, it teaches that the use of force should be a last resort (2:192, 4:90);”

    The verses do not say anything about last resort and 4:90 is regarded abrogated by 9:5 according to major tafsirs such as Ibn Kathir and al-Jalalayn.

    A:”that normal relations between peoples, nations and states, whether Muslim or not, should be peaceful (49:13);”

    A:”Peace” in Islamic terms means something entirely different than the western notion of peace. “Normal relations” in Islam means the Muslims are on top and everyone else is subjugated, enslaved, or dead (9:5, 9:29-9:33). Please see this re “peace”
    http://islam-watch.org/CommunityServer/forums/thread/353.aspx

    A:”that necessary wars must be limited in time and space (2:190)”

    The verse simply doesn’t say that. He is adding lots of wishful-thinking interpretation to it.

    A: “that maximum effort must be applied at all times to advance the cause of peace (10:25)”

    The verse doesn’t say that and the passage goes on to condemn disbelievers (non-Muslims) to punishment, hell-fires, etc. 10:27.

    A:”that whatever means are undertaken to work for peace during a conflict (such as mediation and arbitration) must be attempted over and over again until resolution is achieved (8:61);”

    The verse does not say anything even remotely resembling that. Verse 8:61, after 8:60 which urges Muslims on to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah, only allows for peace under Islamic terms, on the Islamic definition of peace.

    A:”that freedom of religion must be granted to every one (2:256)”

    The verse doesn’t say that. It uses the ambiguous phrase “no compulsion in religion” (2:257 then condemns the disbelievers to the hell-fires) which has been regarded as either abrogated by verses such as 9:5, 9:73, and 48:16″fight them until they submit, etc. This verse 2:256 is as useless and as meaningless as all those that say “Allah is merciful” while he is burning and torturing the non-Muslims in the hell-fires. That’s the Islamic definition of merciful: Burning and torturing people because they do not believe this mumbo jumbo.

    A:”So l ask you where do you get your info from, can you please provide a link as l have always done.”

    Ask the apologist to quote the verses and ask him where he is getting his information on the interpretations he’s giving here.

    A:”You are giving me verses of war and l am giving you verses of peace, you chose which you you want to follow.”

    He is implying that he’ll use whatever verses he wants to suit his purpose”just like Muhammad.

    A:”This verse was revealed in Medina when he was powerful, not when he was persecuted in Mecca. It was a direct answer to the thought you can force people to change their faith.”

    It is not clear here what verse is being referred to, but apologists often say this about 2:256. But there is no verse in the Koran that states specifically that a Muslim can’t force someone to change their faith to Islam. Verse 2:256 (“no compulsion in religion”) in context was in reference to a woman who wanted to raise her child Jewish, see Ibn Kathir’s tafsir. Anyways, the verse is ambiguous enough to mean what the apologist wants it to mean, but mainstream Islam has always had the penalty for apostasy and has always permitted forced conversion (9:5) while officially denying that anyone is to be forced.

    A:”- No 9:5 is directed at enemies in a full scale war. If you read on you will see if they cease hostilities, then peace is what’s ordered.”

    The passage doesn’t say that. The passage (9:6) grants refuge for people to convert to Islam or so that they may be informed about the word of Allah.

    A:”You’re right, only giving the message is allowed, you can’t force people.”

    9:5 constitutes force. 9:29 also constitutes force as far as non-Muslims are concerned; the burden of dhimmitude can be alleviated if the dhimmi converts to Islam, and that constitutes coercion and violation of informed consent (to say the least).

    A: “This is a hadith regarding an Islamic state being attacked by an aggressor. The fourth option as the Quran states is to stop hostilities and leave the land they attacked.”

    I’m not sure which hadith is being refered to here. The apologist cites no evidence here that the hadith is defensive. Regardless of whether the hadith is aggressive or defensive, the point of fighting in either case is to fight people until they accept Islam or dhimmitude or, if the muslims are weak or would benefit by some other option, then a temporary truce or alliance may be set up (key word temporary).

    A:”The fighting referred to in this hadith encompasses moral and social struggle, not military. He’s reffering to fighting disbeleif with truth. Christ said he only came to bring the sword and divide brother among brother. Of course that’s not what he “meant” but on the face of it, it would appear so to one unfamiliar with the text and the fact Christ spoke in many parables.”

    Muslims are permitted to use force in relation to moral or social struggles, e.g., if someone insults Muhammad or Islam, if someone commits adultery, etc.

    However, it is not difficult to find ahadith that do not support the “defensive” interpretation; these are all aggressive:

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386: Narrated Jubair bin Haiya: ‘Umar sent the Muslims to the great countries to fight the pagans. When Al-Hurmuzan embraced Islam, ‘Umar said to him. “I would like to consult you regarding these countries which I intend to invade.” Al-Hurmuzan said, “Yes, the example of these countries and their inhabitants who are the enemies of the Muslims, is like a bird with a head, two wings and two legs; If one of its wings got broken, it would get up over its two legs, with one wing and the head; and if the other wing got broken, it would get up with two legs and a head, but if its head got destroyed, then the two legs, two wings and the head would become useless. The head stands for Khosrau, and one wing stands for Caesar and the other wing stands for Faris. So, order the Muslims to go towards Khosrau.” So, ‘Umar sent us (to Khosrau) appointing An-Numan bin Muqrin as our commander. When we reached the land of the enemy, the representative of Khosrau came out with forty-thousand warriors, and an interpreter got up saying, “Let one of you talk to me!” Al-Mughira replied, “Ask whatever you wish.” The other asked, “Who are you?” Al-Mughira replied, “We are some people from the Arabs; we led a hard, miserable, disastrous life: we used to suck the hides and the date stones from hunger; we used to wear clothes made up of fur of camels and hair of goats, and to worship trees and stones. While we were in this state, the Lord of the Heavens and the Earths, Elevated is His Remembrance and Majestic is His Highness, sent to us from among ourselves a Prophet whose father and mother are known to us. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:– “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.” (Al-Mughira, then blamed An-Numan for delaying the attack and) An-Nu’ man said to Al-Mughira, “If you had participated in a similar battle, in the company of Allah’s Apostle he would not have blamed you for waiting, nor would he have disgraced you. But I accompanied Allah’s Apostle in many battles and it was his custom that if he did not fight early by daytime, he would wait till the wind had started blowing and the time for the prayer was due (i.e. after midday).”

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717: Narrated Ibn Aun: I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn ‘Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn ‘Umar was in that army.

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288:
    Narrated Said bin Jubair:
    Ibn ‘Abbas said, “Thursday! What (great thing) took place on Thursday!” Then he started weeping till his tears wetted the gravels of the ground . Then he said, “On Thursday the illness of Allah’s Apostle was aggravated and he said, “Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray.” The people (present there) differed in this matter and people should not differ before a prophet. They said, “Allah’s Apostle is seriously sick.’ The Prophet said, “Let me alone, as the state in which I am now, is better than what you are calling me for.” The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, “Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them.” I forgot the third (order)” (Ya’qub bin Muhammad said, “I asked Al-Mughira bin ‘Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, ‘It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen.” Ya’qub added, “And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.”)

    A: “The hadith about apostasy is referring to apostates who become traitors and committ acts of treason. Other statements back this up. Several people left Islam while Muhammad was alive and he didn’t kill any of them.”

    Several ahadith about apostasy make no mention whatsoever of any acts of treason. However, apostasy itself in Islam is considered an act of treason so the apologist is employing a circular argument here. All of the apologetics re apostasy have been addressed here.
    http://islam-watch.org/CommunityServer/forums/thread/355.aspx

    A: “Ibn Ishaaq’s testimony has been rejected by 99% of scholars. He often included known liars in a narration chain like Muhammad Al Hajjaj who made up the myth about Asma bint Marwan being killed for making fun of Muhammad.”

    The statement above about Ibn Ishaq is unfounded. Did this apologist cite a survey of thousands of Muslim scholars to support the claim that 99% reject Ishaq? Challenge him for sources. His claim about the chains of narration are as far as I can tell complete fabrication. I have Ishaq (Guillaume’s translation, Oxford Press, 2006 Nineteenth Impression) right in front of me, opening to page 675 and over to 676, which describes the assassination of Asma bint Marwan, and no narrator by the name of Muhammad al-Hajjaj is mentioned.

    Muhammad ordered the deaths of lots of people who either left Islam or insulted Islam; this is nothing unusual that he should kill some and let some people off for whimsical reasons.

  47. says

    Abdel Kareem Nabil, a 22-year-old former student at Egypt’s Al-Azhar University, an Islamic institution, was a vocal secularist and sharp critic of conservative Muslims in his blog. He also lashed out often at Al-Azhar — the most prominent religious center in Sunni Islam — calling it “the university of terrorism” and accusing it of encouraging extremism.

    Who could have dreamed such a thing? Sounds alot like China too. Now I am beginning to wonder if Google will start handling Muslims like they do the Chinese. Not allowing certain things, excluding search material, and so on.

  48. says

    “Egypt arrested a number of bloggers last year, most of them for connections to Egypt’s pro-democracy reform movement.”

    I keep telling muslims that they have to get out of Islamic nations and move to the west. But to few listen.

  49. says

    TO BLOG OR NOT TO BLOG, THAT IS THE QUESTION…

    If any of you bloggers on this site live in Muslim countries, you better look out: Allah’s henchmen are watching. Type the wrong thing in here and you could end up like that poor infidel Egyptian kid who had the gall to insult his president and the other terrorists.

    You might want to start thinking about moving to a Christian nation, so you don’t get killed for saying stuff. We’ll let you in as long as you aren’t Muslim and trying to kill people.

  50. says

    Sadly, articles like this just simply confirms my viewpoint that Islam is not going to reform and get with the 21st century. But more then ever before the real truth about Islam must be expose to the cleansing light. For those of us who are Christian, with the great holy season of Lent having just started, let us pray for not only our own turning back to the God of the Holy Bible with all our hearts, but for the spiritual conversion of Muslims to faith in Christ. Peace.

  51. says

    “”Peace” in Islamic terms means something entirely different than the western notion of peace.”

    In precisely the same way that Islam’s notion of “truce” has entirely different connotations from the Western understanding of that word.

    Very soon, if not already, it will become critical for non-Muslim cultures to begin an exacting and careful reinterpretation of Islamic terminology. Words such as “dhimmitude” and “hudna” have no more in common with concepts like “peace” and “truce” than a mortar shell does with neurosurgery.

  52. says

    … Nabil, a 22-year-old former student at [the recognized seat of Islamic learning], Egypt’s Al-Azhar University … lashed out … calling it “the university of terrorism

    Ooooh, you just know that’s gonna leave a mark! From the mouths of babes and fools …

  53. says

    In truth we are in very dark and difficult times. I see Islam as a creation of Satan and his last attempts to overthrow the God of the Holy Bible and His Kingdom. It will all fail because the King of Kings will return.

  54. says

    Naseem,

    The Bible says that “the children of darkness love the darkness”.

    You live in darkness, along with the whole Islamic world.

    You can know the truth if you ask God for the truth with an open heart.

    If you won’t ask God for the truth, you’ll live and die in your darkness. Then you’ll know the truth, but it’ll be to late.

    If your religion tells you that it’s wrong to ask God for truth, then it’s an enemy of God.

  55. says

    Right on rational — the only problem is that Naseem believes that God is allah, not the God you and I serve. She already thinks that she has asked God for the truth with an open heart. What Naseem needs, is to open her heart to Jesus Christ.

  56. says

    @Hugh
    “Stop the Jizyah or End the Jizyah”
    Good point, yet I heavily doubt it. Till 1801, when the Tripoli war broke out (following a declaration of war from the bararaby state Tripoli, which is in today’s Libya against the US)
    At that time the US government paid about 20-30% of it’s income as tribute to the Barbary states – which were, as the war showed, far from being any serious military match.
    Now.. imagine how much that would be today, 20%-30% of the national budget payable to Egypt & Co.
    The US only started to stop paying the yizha when they basically couldn’t cope with it anymore (the Barbaries asked steadily for more). And when Tripoli declared them war.
    Seems that until that time Jefferson was behaving no much different from today’s left – completely dhimmified, giving to muslims whatever they asked, no matter what. Which might be the reason why Ellison actually took his quran – let the good old early Jeffersonian days revive?
    http://lexicorient.com/e.o/barbary_war_first.htm

    Yet – once the US was willing to invest the jizyah money in its marine forces and pick up the declaration of war they quickly overrun the muslim forces and the yizha stopped. Apparently the muslim Barbaries didn’t consider it their muslim duty anymore to collect the yizha from victims who dared to defend themselves against “allah’s will”. The latter yet might be the part of Jefferson which Ellison probably wouldn’t like to see a revival…

  57. says

    Plague, not even one dimension of Islam will be destroyed totally. The Amerike or Engliushman who could do this is not yet born …and never will be.

    WRONG. There are thousands of nuclear missiles in US and Russian arsenals with Islam’s name on them. All it takes is the will. With any luck, half of the limited muslim nuclear arsenal can be counted on to not work properly, and a good proportion could be destroyed in preemptive strike as well. The military capability to utterly destroy the house of Islam and send Muhammad’s followers to rendezvous with the Satan they worship is there, all that is needed is the will. In my opinion, muslims are going to continue to overreach and they will create the will to strike, and the house of Islam will become one big, smoking, radioactive hole in the ground.

    Islam is just the latest brand of despotic trash that at periods of time comes out of the east and attempts to destroy Western civilization. The results have always been, usually after much dickering around, the west finally gets it’s act together and cleans house. The west has a 2000 year record of successfully fighting off invasions from the east and as the gamblers say, never bet against a streak.

    There is no honor in Islam as there is no freedom in Islam – it’s a religion of slaves who compensate for their lack of manhood by sadism towards the vulnerable. If you notice the elites of the muslim armies were SLAVE troops – Janissaries, whereas the elites of the western armies were FREE men – the knights. Even the feudal system (Magna Carta) was light years ahead of shariyah law with regards to the freedom it gave to men, and the medieval division of power between church, king, and aristocracy was much more democratic than Islamic despotism that concentrated all state and religious power in the caliph. Which is why you can’t export democracy to muslim countries, there is ZERO precedence for any sort of division of power, and if you attempt to divide the power, you get civil war as in Iraq as all sides go for absolute power.

  58. says

    “”Peace” in Islamic terms means something entirely different than the western notion of peace.”

    In precisely the same way that Islam’s notion of “truce” has entirely different connotations from the Western understanding of that word.

    ***********

    And add “defensive war” to the list of misleading terms.

    Consider bin Laden’s 1998 fatwa, which carefully couches his declaration of war against America as a defensive struggle because of: (1) American’s occupation of Islam’s holiest places (presence of American military bases in Saudi Arabia) (2) the American-led war against Iraq (after Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait) and subsequent sanctions on Hussein’s government, and (3) the American-Israeli alliance (that makes America the puppet of those world dominating Jews who occupy Jerusalem).

    Thus, according to bin Laden, America is the aggressor that first declared war on Islam. Therefore it is the duty of every Muslim to come to the aid of the ulmma and “kill the Americans and their allies — civilian and military — … in any country in which it is possible to do it.”

    “‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'”

  59. says

    To UK Infidel Lover I can see what you say to be true. By only corrupting 20% of the world you can corrupt the other parts when they have to rise to fight. Fighting does damage to the fighters, regardless of whether they stand on the right or wrong side of the ranks. When I read Qur’an 2:216 I know this cannot be from God as I know that entity to be. That one verse is enough, but evil must be fought. One must stand and deliver and suffer from it.

    This fight is about a 7th Century Dark Ages tribalism vs. the 18th Century Enlightenment principles. The question is: Will medievalism be able to intimidate and roll back ‘The Rights of Man’?

    Dark vs. Light in other words.

    Dark must strike with all it has now, since it has the financial means and the demographics in its favor. Darkness in form of Islam won’t have another chance, since oil is bound to become marginal and in 20 years the baby boom will age out of militancy. This form of darkness won’t be able to mount sustained attacks in 20-50 years anyway due to the trends changing.

    Which brings me to Naseem. She contends West/free world can’t completely destroy the Islamic effort in four dimensions: religious, political, legal and social. Well, your point is taken. I should qualify what I mean by ‘destroy the four dimensions’. I mean to say that we need to destroy the means and the will of Dar al-Islam to launch sustained attacks against the western/free world and also remove the desire to push the Islamic agenda by force anywhere in the world. In other words, we need to remove the ability of Islam to influence or coerce and put it on the defensive. Make the movement turn inward. Defeat it, then put it back into the box. In 20-50 years the Islamic world won’t be able to do jihad in a meaningful way regardless… so stop it from spreading now as we did Communism and let time do the rest. In 50 years the middle east will lose its oil lever and will be consigned to last place in the ranking of civilizations anyway.

    To guide inside – right.

    To godfrey de boullionMontjoie…Saint Denis

  60. says

    “Right on rational — the only problem is that Naseem believes that God is allah, not the God you and I serve. She already thinks that she has asked God for the truth with an open heart. What Naseem needs, is to open her heart to Jesus Christ.”

    Champ,

    We both know that you’re right but, frankly, I believe that even if Naseem asks the fiction called “Allah” for truth with an open heart, our God will honor her willingness to hear the truth — if she truely has an open heart.

    I don’t agree that she, or any Muslim, ever asked Allah for the truth with an open heart. That would be Blasphemy in Islam, since it suggest that there might be a truth other than Islam, and, therefore, an insult to Allah. That’s why it’s so difficult for a Muslim to sincerly seek God and truth. An open heart is a willingness to accept whatever God tells you, even if it contradicts what you already believe.

    If that willingness is present, enen if she prays to the fictional Allah, God will naturally lead Naseem to Jesus.

  61. says

    Muhmmad to Jesus: “I can perform miracles too!”

    Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

    That he heard the Prophet on the day (of the battle) of Khaibar saying, “I will give the flag to a person at whose hands Allah will grant victory.” So, the companions of the Prophet got up, wishing eagerly to see to whom the flag will be given, and everyone of them wished to be given the flag. But the Prophet asked for ‘Ali. Someone informed him that he was suffering from eye-trouble. So, he ordered them to bring ‘Ali in front of him. Then the Prophet spat in his eyes and his eyes were cured immediately as if he had never any eye-trouble. ‘Ali said, “We will fight with them (i.e. infidels) till they become like us (i.e. Muslims).” The Prophet said, “Be patient, till you face them and invite them to Islam and inform them of what Allah has enjoined upon them. By Allah! If a single person embraces Islam at your hands (i.e. through you), that will be better for you than the red camels.”