No Compulsion In Religion Alert. By Wolfgang Polzer for the ASSIST News Service, with thanks to all who sent this in:
A Turk who claims to be a descendant of Islam's prophet Muhammad has converted to Christianity while living in Germany.But Sedar Dedeoglu, of Luedenscheid, now faces a threat to his life if he's forced to return to Turkey, and is seeking help from German authorities.
Dedeoglu, who is involved in Christian outreach programs among Muslims, has been receiving death threats from Muslims unwilling to accept his conversion. His relatives also regard the apostasy as shameful.
If Dedeoglu is returned to his native country, he very likely would be killed, his lawyer says.
I bet the Germans will send this guy back, because they, like other European countries, hardly give asylum to those who really do need it.
An aside note: Is there a moderator here?
Hey, Mother Ecclesiastica, dude, clean up your filthy language will you.
What is the point of spewing such vile words? It simple makes you look like a fool.
Why would they let him stay? He's not a muslim anymore.
Robert,
May I respectfully request you take some action against the post of "Mother Ecclesiastica". The above post on this thread at 1:03 AM is particularly offensive.
Thanks and regards
Robert, I second Payingattention's motion.
M.E:
Come on give the guy a break. He's nothing to gain by hoodwinking the German authorities, if that's your line of thinking.
Those of a dubious nature, seeking asylum in Western countries DO NOT generally cite apostasy from Islam as the reason for their claim. It's far more likely the political persecution defence be deployed. This can cover a multitude of activities including murder, incitement to murder and the sponsering of terrorism at home and abroad. Western nations bound by dated legislation, set up at a time soon after WWII when there was a genuine need to protect certain groups of vulnerable people, have been powerless to act with common sense against a more recent threat.
This individual working in an outreach program is far more useful to the wellbeing of the West than any number of imans shipped in from places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. We in the UK are throwing £5M into a Muslim re-education scheme destined for failure. I would prefer to see my taxes going to people like Mr Dedeoglu who are willing to put their lives on the line sorting the problem from the 'grass roots' level. If we in the West cannot differentiate between pearls and swine we'll continue our decline.
Sometimes I try to picture Mo as a rational, decent guy (I know I know, it takes a great deal of imagination given his words and deeds) who, if he came back from the dead might actually be appalled about what Islam has done for 1400 years.
He'd probably say to this guy that he doesn't blame him for converting given what Islam has become-he'd probably convert too.
It WOULD be funny if Mo does come back as his followers believe-and he ends up asking "What the hell is wrong with you idiots? You've perverted my beliefs! No wonder you people are such despised losers. You people disgust me!" No doubt he would then be promptly beheaded for such a statement.
another descendant of mohammed?
of the 1.2B muslims just how many ain't a descendant?
Islamforlosers, believe me if mo comes back he will have none of those thoughts, he would come back and be simply astounded that his own made up god Allah and his personal made up beliefs would be followed by so many non Arabs, for so long. Mo created Islam as a belief system for illiterate, stupid, Arabs, and to make himself rich and famous and surrounded by women. He proberly expected it to die with his death. didn't expect that later arabs rulers will pick up his teachings to spread arabisim all over the world.
desidude-
I have no illusions about Mo at all. Given his life story he'd probably be proud at how many dummies throughout the world have taken up his demented philosophy.
And I'm sure he'd still want a cut of the money and the women-after all, he was the founding father of all that craziness and he'd feel he'd be entitled on that basis alone.
If the Christian world protests loudly enough on Mr. Dedeoglu's behalf, perhaps he can be given assuylum in a non-Muslim country so his life could be spared.
Western Infidel makes many valid points. Infidels who have already come-up-the-learning-curve on Islam and passed discernment tests need to welcome, embrace and collaborate with apostates and converts in creating "underground railroads" to "safe houses" and sanctuaries, as well as in overhauling outdated and failed immigration policies. The language skills and cultural understandings apostates and converts bring are invaluable in formulating survival strategies for those committed to preserving liberty and freedom.
Off topic news, but possibly significant:
The story of US captives in Somalia gains weight
Ummah News Links
mother ecclesiastica, you have my support. I remember your post and found it so great I want to compliment you. Pathetic and hypocrites the other members pointing fingers at you.
I don't know what the rush is in Germany? Is this guy an illegal immigrant, if that's the case let him stay?
If this happens it's still a matter of time before Turkey comes to him and his head is taken off. All depends on how suicidal the EU remains and if it allows Turkey entry.
On a different note, I see the posting by mother ecclestica was removed before I had a chance to see it. If anyone's up to it, I'm curious what it was about, and why the outrage?
Niv
"On a different note, I see the posting by mother ecclestica was removed before I had a chance to see it. If anyone's up to it, I'm curious what it was about, and why the outrage?"
Niv
Posted by: The fanatic
I second that what did she say?
It couldn't have been that bad she's a nun for Christ sake!
It's too bad Sedar Dedeoglu didn't convert to the Mormon Church.
If I understand the Mormon Church beliefs correctly on this matter, anyone converting to their church also brings their ancestors into the church. Thus Mohammed will end up being a Mormon someday, given the right circumstances. And then the whole "Perfect Example" thing goes right out the window I guess.
Chatillon,
It's not that easy to convert ol Mo to Mormonism. Vicarious baptism is a Mormon Temple ritual in that only a Mormon with a Temple recommend is allowed to perform. To obtain a Temple recommend, one has to be a good Mormon: Tithing, Church work, no drinking (including coffee), smoking etc. It's no easy task, and requires years of commitment. I know many LDS people who will NEVER get a Temple recommend. And then if one perfoms a vicarious baptism, the "spirit" has to agree to be baptised. It's all kind of a Pyramidal sceme (like Amway) in the levels of heaven thing. So no, I don't think ol Mo would like being a Mormon because he'd have to start out at the bottom...I think he'd like the multiple wives thing because the old style Mormons could have as many wives as they could support...still do in many of the isolated polygamist communities of Utah and Arizona (Thanks to welfare). But I think ol Mo would find Mormon doctrine boring: No looting, raping, murdering, etc. Mo would have to actually work very hard to get his own planet...I don't think ol Mo ever knew hard work. And then there's that nasty little problem of Pork.
The Mormon also willnot allow this it the dead relate was person who believe strongly in another religion. One of the brother or sister of the current pope is tham Mormon an some Cathor fear the pope will be make tham Mormon after he die. It is very unlikely to happen as the Elder of the Mormon willnot approve just than thing. Plus many Moslim and Mormon share many beliefs and value in common.
Mother Ecclestica don't let the slights of feeble minds that cannot offer anything of value to this site bother you. These Borsch Belters of proper language are the same type of "regulators" who would make great stooges and warders for the mo take over. Amazing how offended they get. Being vocal against the enemy is commendable. Keep it up! FallingProphet, payingattention, and side-kick Paolo seem more shocked by your words than by the looming muslim menace. Shame on them!
Truthseeker
Mother Ecclesiastica's deleted post was one where she poured vile abuse at the Turkish convert to Christianity. She is obviously deranged. Those defending her above have either not seen her post, or think that once a Muslim, one should have no way out even if one came to one's senses. I'm all for those who want to see Islam eradicated, and a lot of it may well imply that a lot of Muslims would have to be annihilated to attain that. However, those who have courageously chosen to jettison Islam deserve to be congratulated, or at least left alone, instead of being targeted to vile verbal attacks. Or is it the view of StillFedUp, you and others that people like Wafa Sultan, Ali Sina, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, et al should be expelled back to Syria, Iran, Somalia, et al, and face certain death, just to satisfy... what exactly?
Regardless of whether or not he really is a descendent of the 'prophet', my admiration for this man's courage knows no bounds.
Good luck to him and, on behalf of all those of us who still care, welcome to civilisation, buddy!
Well, if Germany doesn't work, we could use Mr. Dedeoglu here in the USofA.
The diapora of historically Muslim peoples in Europe and North America has been a Godsend to those concerned for the evangelization of the Muslim world. It was returend Guest Workers who planted the Evangelical presence in Turkey itself; and former sojourners in France and Spain who re-introduced an indigenous Christianity in the Maghreb.
Re Mormonism: it does indeed share things with Mohammedanism. Both begin with M and both have blessed polygamy. Both are also anti-Christian (Mormonism denies that God is spirit, but says that God the father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's).
Have_mercy,
You're absolute correct about how US asylum policy discriminates against M.E. Christians. Even the 911 rules limiting immigrants from "terrorist states" made no distinction between Christians and Muslims becaause that would be "profiling"!!! So a Lebanese or Eritrean Christian is treated no differently in a visa application than a Muslim. On the other hand, there are special exceptions for Saudi "students" and members of the Saudi elite, whose visa applications are expedited by the Feds.
As for the thousands of Assyrian Christians now in refugee camps in Jordan and Syria, very few are eligible to come to the US. Why? Because they are fleeing the US imposed Islamic theocracy so they are automatically branded as Saddamists. This applies to all of them even if they never had anything to do with the Ba'athist regime. Remember, the American satrap in Iraq was a Muslim (he's now the US ambassador to the UN). Bush may claim to be a devout Christian (and I don't doubt his personal faith) but he has done nothing for persecuted Christians anywhere.
Oops! I meant "terrorist watch states" which is the official designation.
DefenderofIslam said:
"Plus many Moslim and Mormon share many beliefs and value in common."
Like what? Marriage to young teenage girls? Polygamy? Men spiritually superior to women? Those are the only things in common IMO. Mormons are NOT people of the book. Mormonism is not a Christian denomination (although many will tell you it is). Mormon doctrine is polytheistic to the max in that they beleve that one will become a God of his own planet after life on this earth. Defender, if Islam and Mormonism are so similar, why aren't Mormons allowed to minister in Muslim countries?
yes, mormonism and islam have much in common. both cults are total BS!
yes, mormonism and islam have much in common. both cults are total BS!
Hey Pigfarmer:
Ignorance is bliss, isn't it!
Hey if he's an honest convert to Christianity he can come here to the USA
TheOmegaMan,you crack me up. I like your wit and sarcasm.