From The Times of London:
A Pakistani minister and woman’s activist has been shot dead by an Islamic extremist for refusing to wear the veil.
Zilla Huma Usman, the minister for social welfare in Punjab province and an ally of President Pervez Musharraf, was killed as she was about to deliver a speech to dozens of party activists, by a “fanatic”, who believed that she was dressed inappropriately and that women should not be involved in politics, officials said.
Mrs Usman, 35, was wearing the shalwar kameez worn by many professional women in Pakistan, but did not cover her head.
allahu akbar!
Even lowly Pakistan has standards, and they're looking to enforce them now.
But all this is so sexist. For example, does a 40 yr old Pakistani pederast with a cig hanging from his lower lip wear a veil when he does his dirty deed in an Islamabad alleyway?
The murderer was one of the faithful who march by the thousands chanting "Death to America" and "Islam will dominate the world" most days in Pakistan. He simply chose to focus his belief mostly on the anti-female creed spewed by Muhammad and took those words literally -- like Muhammad intended.
This is incredibly sad. Another brave moderate (real moderate, not CAIR fakes), modern muslim gunned down by the Islamic mainstream fundamentalists. Is it any wonder the rational reform elements of Islam are silenced so effectively worldwide? Their lives are literally on the line for speaking out for basic human rights enjoyed by the Modern Free World.
Light a candle for this hero, feminists and free people not under the black shroud of the "prophet".
...Yet another shining example of the tolerant, peaceful religion of Islam...Remember incidents like this every time you hear a Muslim tell you Islam is tolerant,understanding,or peaceful....You will hear but you will know it is a lie.....
Serves her right. Oops, sorry I turned into a lefty moral relativist for a second.
This is of course another example of how compatible Islam is with western values.
....Yet another example of Muslims killing Muslims....7th century retards...
..."who believed that she was dressed inappropriately and that women should not be involved in politics, ""
...Condi, Hillary, and Nancy should be careful going into Muslim neighborhoods...
A true moderate muslim, unlike Begum Sahiba Naseem.
Isn't Islam wonderful?
Every religion and culture on the planet should look toward the shining beacon of Islam. More importantly, we need more Islam and more Islamists here in America.
/sarcasm
.. but I am told 'Izlum is a Religion of Peace'!? .. I am so confused! Oh ... since I am not a muslim, I do not understand that, although men, women and children are slaughtered, Islam is a religion of peace. Isn't that right Condi? Dubya?
Beautiful clothing
http://www.reetriwaj.com/
I thought there was no compulsion in religion, oh yeah, women are just farm animals...they have to be kept under control or some bad guy might see their hair. Remedy = murder
... but wait a minute... I am told that 'Islam respects women'. And then women are killed for 'honor', raped women are punished under 'hudood ordinance', as though the raped woman is also the criminal.. and am told again that 'Islam respects women'. Huh? Can anyone explain the hypocrisy, disparity, double/triple standards? Then again, why do I bother?
I wonder if our great ally Musharraf will put a stop to this cold-blooded murder. Muhammed-approved, tribally-sanctioned murder.
I vaguely remember now why I support the death penalty for capital murder.
It brings a whole new meaning to the Fashionable Expression 'I wouldn't be seen Dead in that' ... Sorry, couldn't resist .
Assalamau Laikum wrathofasma,
This is rather unfortunate, security in Pak is not the best (nor in India as we saw yesterday), despite the abundance of jawans available for security.
But I am also interested in why you don't think I am a moderate. I practice free speech, wear a salwar kameez and run a furniture business.
I am ahmadi and love the mix that Ahmaddia puts forward...i.e. the superamacy of Islam without the violence...there is no better.
Wrathofasama ..sometime in the past my ancestors converted from Hindoos to Islam after seeing the light of Islam. You won't see it if I ask you to...therefore I ask Allah SWT to show you the light...so you too can become a brother of the deen...have that wonderful long beard that so many do.
Islam may bohot mazza haa...abi joa naa.
Allah Hafiz
Your sister in the deen Begum Naseem.
I heard Dubya on CSPAN last Sunday talking about the book he is reading now called "Abraham". Dubya's reasoning is that since Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all stem from Abraham, all three of those religions should be perfectly compatible. And he believes that.
How silly of me to assume otherwise.
Dubya's reasoning is that since Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all stem from Abraham, all three of those religions should be perfectly compatible.
Posted by: Isle of Skye at February 20, 2007 06:36 PM
.. isn't this the same dubya who invaded Iraq for plotting against his dad (and ofcourse. there were those WMDs), who increaded students visas to wahhabbis (almost inviting another 9/11) and parrots 'Izlum is a Religion of Peace (ofcourse him or his family does not live in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, who by the way, plotted 9/11 and are now, his allies against terror !?).
Celebrate diversity!
..sometime in the past my ancestors converted from Hindoos to Islam after seeing the light of Islam.
Posted by: Naseem at February 20, 2007 06:27 PM
.... or under the sword of Islamic thugs.. one will never know, Begum Naseem, one will never know.
UK - MAJORITY MUSLIM SCHOOLS TO BECOME ISLAMIC
Excerpts only
Muslim boys should be covered between navel and knee
Muslim girls should wear loose clothes covering everything apart from the hands and face.
Muslim boys should be allowed to grow beards.
Both should be allowed to wear amulets on necklaces which must not be considered as jewellery.
School uniform policy should include the requirements of the muslim dress code.
School meals should include the provision of Halal food.
All kitchen staff must receive training on how to handle Halal food.
The equipment and utensils used to prepare and store Halal food must not be used to prepare non-Halal food.
Schools must make provisions for the five daily prayers.
Schools must provide for Friday congregational prayers onsite.
Schools must provide a prayer area and washing facilities nearby.
Schools must adapt toilets to include washing areas.
Schools have a written policy for the requirements of Ramadam.
Staff must have Ramadam awareness training.
Schools must recognise and celebrate the spirit and values of Ramadam through collective worship, assembly themes and collective breaking of the fast.
Schools must not schedule exams to coincide with Ramadam.
Schools must not schedule sex and relationship lessons or swimming during Ramadam.
Fasting children should avoid over-demanding exercise.
Schools should not hold parents' evenings or other social events during the month of Ramadam.
There is lots more
http://godhelpbritain.blogspot.com/2007/02/majority-muslim-schools-to-become.html
Bingo. More of Dubya's fantasies. Fantasies we need to be protected from.
Alert posted : or under the sword of Islamic thugs.. one will never know, Begum Naseem, one will never know.
The probability is that of conversion by the sword. It is this latent shame that makes Pakistanis more fanatically Islamic and anti-Hindu/India then any other Muslims.
Naseem kutya said "..sometime in the past my ancestors converted from Hindoos to Islam after seeing the light of Islam."
Yes, I can see Naseem's great great grandad being thrown on the ground with a muslim guard's shoe on his back with a raised sword aimed at his neck. The guard say's " will you renounce hinduisim and declare allegiance to the prophet muhammed or you want your head hacked off? suddenly her cowardly grandad sees the light and becomes muslim to save himself and family. this is what Naseem means when she says her ancestors saw the light of islam.
From the article:
“The gunman, Mohammad Sarwar…not thought to belong to any radical group but is known for his fanaticism.
…previously held in 2002 in connection with the killing and mutilation of four prostitutes, but was never convicted … appeared relaxed and calm when he told a television channel that he had carried out God’s order to kill women who sinned. “I have no regrets. I just obeyed Allah’s commandment,” he said, adding that Islam did not allow women to hold positions of leadership. “I will kill all those women who do not follow the right path, if I am freed again,” he said.
…analysts said that the murder of the female minister highlighted the failure of his government in curbing Islamic extremism.”
It’s interesting that the mysterious “analysts” see this as an act of Islamic extremism, yet he is not thought to belong to any radical group. Notably absent from the official statements were any hint of the gunman’s actions being un-Islamic or his statements being against the teachings of Allah.
If we call this “Sudden Jihad Syndrome” in the U.S. what do they call it in Pak? When will we see the MSM or political opposition step up and call acts of SJS here “highlights of the failure to curb Islamic extremism?”
We won’t. Rather than call a spade a spade, they are instead called “wild cards”. Not belonging to any deck or suit, just aberrations receiving their orders and weapons and uncanny knowledge of Allah’s teachings from nowhere in particular.
-XRDC
Ah, those wonderful, long beards, with bits of food and grease, not washed in months, crawling with ticks and spiders.."
Oh, sexy..a certain Pakistani begum, loves it - a Pashtun Tarzan, swinging by to carry her awaaaayyy! What a dreamboy.
"..sometime in the past my ancestors converted from Hindoos to Islam after seeing the light of Islam."
The light glinting off the edge of a sword
..sometime in the past my ancestors converted from Hindoos to Islam after seeing the light of Islam.
naseem, you don't know what you are talking about.
There is NO light in islam. Are you really that stupid ?
Those Hindus and Sikhs, and Christians who were not slaughtered, were FORCED to convert.
Use your own brain to figure this out, by re-reading your quaran, instead if following your so called imams's interpretations.
No Such thing as a Moderate Muslim...A Moderate Muslim is but a terrorist in waiting...
"suddenly her cowardly grandad sees the light and becomes muslim to save himself and family. this is what Naseem means when she says her ancestors saw the light of islam.
Posted by: desidude"
desidude, brother, I would not call these people "cowardly". They converted at swordpoint, and had they not done so, their families would have been destroyed. The women would have been gangraped before being hacked to death, the children taken as part of the harem of the sword wielder. The men themselves would have been tortured to death. We cannot imagine being in such a situation, and we cannot ridicule the dead. Their descendants, like naseem, grew up in islam. They are brainwashed by birth, and I don't have any hopes they can be salvaged. They are like the rest of muslims, zombies.
"If we call this “Sudden Jihad Syndrome” in the U.S. what do they call it in Pak?"
...a success story.....
Assalamau Laikum Arjun,
Indeed I feel for those who may have been converted by way of the sword. I will not deny that this went on to a small extent in the past...but is slowly dying out(pun not intended).
Whether my great great (I don't know when) grandad converted and whether it was at the point of a sword I don't know...but it's a mute point now.
I know that sikhs preferred death to conversion and I can totally respect that. I guess if I ever throught about converting (which I don't) it would be to sikhism....christianity is in chrisis and in real trouble.
On the otherhand many dhimmis (hindoos) preferred life in the hope of re-converting later...but it never materialised....they liked (the rewards of) Islam too much..so I guess you could say that converted hindoos are moderate muslims...and I would catagorise myself as one of the true moderates.
This is not to say I don't want Islam to dominate....I do....but only through true peace...non violent peace...and I do believe that we shall see this over the next mellinium.... after all who can deter Alla's SWT will.
What I DO know is that I could come out of Islam anytime if I wanted...even if that was done in secret and only me knowing....but I have CHOSEN not to...it's a concious decision...and thus I resent being called a zombie because it's not true.
It is true that I skip violent suras...and that I do read the early abrograted suras...and that is my silent protest to Allah SWT ...i.e. I reject violent ideology in my own way and I believe I can talk to Allah SWT on a one-one basis in this way.
I am thus comfortable with my version of Islam...nobody except the immediate family know this...and they cannot tell...they know their vulnurability just by being Ahmadi anyway.
The violent Jihadists kill because they chose to do so....sometimes people make good decisions and sometimes they don't....
Nassem wrote:
"This is not to say I don't want Islam to dominate....I do....but only through true peace...non violent peace...and I do believe that we shall see this over the next mellinium.... after all who can deter Alla's SWT will."
Why do you pray to a tormentor? Did you hear Hani Nashbandi a Saudi journalist on tv in February (translated courtesy of MEMRI):
"Hani Naqashbandi: I grew up in a society that taught me Allah is a tormentor.
Interviewer: A tormentor?
Hani Naqashbandi: In the full sense of the word. It taught me that Allah punishes and never forgives. He punishes, punishes, and punishes, and only eventually will decide whether to forgive you or not.
Interviewer: I feel like running away...
Hani Naqashbandi: Let's leave together. Allah describes Himself as Compassionate and Merciful, in all religions. Allah represents, first and foremost, love. We did not learn that Allah is love, we learned, from childhood... To this day, I hate milk, because my mother would say: "Drink your milk, or else Allah will be made at you." She didn’t say Allah loves me. Let Him love me first."
Your god is a tormentor. Are you praying to the wrong god?
"“I have no regrets. I just obeyed Allah’s commandment,”
.....you hear this often after a Muslim kills someone...Allah's commandments appeal to those inclined to violence...Ban the QUR'AN......
WHY is it that only the women have "dress codes?"
It is true that I skip violent suras...and that I do read the early abrograted suras...and that is my silent protest to Allah SWT ...i.e. I reject violent ideology in my own way and I believe I can talk to Allah SWT on a one-one basis in this way. Naseem (of course)
You're rebelling against the later, more perfect suras directly transmitted to people of this world by Allah through his slave Gabriel to go to the Messenger Mohammed?
You reject the notion that all in Qur'an is perfect and unchangeable.
You presume to think that Nasseem is more just in being individual than Allah and his justice?
You presume to think that your know better than Allah TNT? Allah ta'alla knows best!!!! Don't you listen to all scholars!!!
I am thus comfortable with my version of Islam...nobody except the immediate family know this...and they cannot tell...they know their vulnurability just by being Ahmadi anyway. Naseem (who else?)
You hide you lamp under a basket because you know the 'fanatics' all around you would beat you slim, trim Ahamadi body the first chance they had if those 'fanatics' ( neighbors and store customers ) had the first idea of how much of an apostate you are. You're a proud, individualistic woman who rebels against the commands of Allah TNT. You hide this because you know you're not supposed to think as you do, but yet you cling to the fantasy that you are 'muslimah'.
Give it up Naseem, you don't have to be muslim to believe in a good god of Peace. You lie to yourself more than us.
Ah, Naseems....aren't you frequently bragging about how it's Muslim countries, like Pakistan, that have women in positions of power? Cruel joke that, eh?
Your last post was just full of puns; bet you didn't get the one here, did you?
'Whether my great great (I don't know when) grandad converted and whether it was at the point of a sword I don't know...but it's a mute point now.'
It may be a moot point, all right, but he was surely left mute.
Yeah, your Own Private Islam, as Hugh would put it. APonBH has it so right; you'd be dead in a NY Minute, should those "others" realize this about you.
desidude, brother, I would not call these people "cowardly". They converted at swordpoint, and had they not done so, their families would have been destroyed. The women would have been gangraped before being hacked to death, the children taken as part of the harem of the sword wielder. The men themselves would have been tortured to death. We cannot imagine being in such a situation, and we cannot ridicule the dead. Their descendants, like naseem, grew up in islam. They are brainwashed by birth, and I don't have any hopes they can be salvaged. They are like the rest of muslims, zombies.
Posted by: arjun.sevak
The questions is: How do we who wish to remain free become equally violent so we can retain our freedoms. My essential argument remains.. for us to be free can only mean to live without moslems in our midst. There are way too many panderers among us free peoples who would hand over our freedoms to them bit by bit.
Quod erta demonstrandum. See England, France Germany. To a lesser extent we are bending over in USA and AUS. Canada is beyond all hope.
Naseem
Given that you are going to be persecuted regardless of whether you are an Ahmadiya or a total infidel, why not take either one of these options:
- Convert to Sikh, since you admire them so much. Sure, you'll be persecuted, but will that be much worse than what you're experiencing now? Incidentally, we know how apostates are treated in Islamic countries, but since Ahmadiyas are considered heretics, would an Ahmadiya converting to a non-Islamic religion be considered apostasy in the eyes of your local badshahs?
- Convert to the real Sunni Islam (how about Wahabism?), and be free of any persecution. And then you can gloat about the glory of your 1b+ companions in the ummah.
Incidentally, I doubt that Sikhs would appreciate your presence: they have more than enough to be resentful about. In one of your past threads, you mentioned Banda Bahadur: you might want to check on what your brothers in the ummah did to him, and then savor the light of Islam, no doubt the glint off an Islamic sword.It's a bit depressing(ultimately for humanity), that people on here end up squabbling about who's particular fantasy is the right one. All religions are completely absurd, none of them are right, or evidence based. The fact that people who follow religions, use it as an excuse to murder, rape and main, isn't surprising. They've already given up their free will for a silly story, a child's logic could pick to pieces.
However, at least Christians allow a bit of abiguity to creep in. Muslims would be amazed, (so would Hindus and Sikhs to tell the truth), to find that even deeply religious people can question some aspects of scripture, and under go doubts about faith. It's amazing how fellow Christians are sad for them, and try to "save" them. Inexplicably, they don't kill them.
Still, in another thousand years Islam may be in the same position, civilised. Wonder what we'll be squabbling about then?
Incidentally, I doubt that Sikhs would appreciate your presence: they have more than enough to be resentful about.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at February 21, 2007 12:57 PM
.... besides, Sikhism will never accept deceptive and cunning muslims, with weak moral fiber, just to boast of their 'numbers'. Sikhism observes a set of solid and unwavering spiritual values, unlike the cheap number game, Islam plays.
Yes, and there is that lefty looney twit who always ask's me why Pakistan/Bangladesh & Indonesia have had female prime-ministers, somewhat infuriating.
Perhaps we can find the answer here, anybody?
Sheikh Yermani
In all the cases, the women in question were daughters/wives of major (male) supremos. The reason they came to power was the fact that their parties were wholly owned by their male relatives, and they were therefore seen as rightful successors. In other words, it was simply dynastic politics, and the women in question had no brothers who would inherit the mantle (Bhutto does, but last I heard, he was an exile in Libya for his Marxist connections).
The list, just to recap:
- Indonesia - Megawati Sukarnoputri - daughter of Indonesia's first president Sukarno
- Pakistan - Benazir Bhutto - daughter of former PM Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
- Bangladesh - Hasina Wajed - daughter of founder of Bangladesh Sheikh Mujibur Rahman
Not exactly a Margaret Thatcher, Angela Markel, Condi Rice, Gloria Arroyo, et al, who gained recognition in their own right. Note that Hillary Clinton, Cory Acquino fall in the same category as the above Muslimah leadersKhaleda Zia - widow of ex President Ziaur Rahman.
Sheikh
Also, assuming that your friend is a feminist, I doubt she'll respect such women for riding the coattails of their fathers/husband.
"
Yes, and there is that lefty looney twit who always ask's me why Pakistan/Bangladesh & Indonesia have had female prime-ministers, somewhat infuriating.
Perhaps we can find the answer here, anybody?"
Queen Elizabeth I, came to power in a deeply misogynist culture. Most of The Great Henry's marital problems were due to his desperation for a son. What does it matter if in a viciously misogynist culture, the odd woman gets to be head of state, when the police and everyone else turns a blind eye to the murder of females generally?Here's a point. In ancient rome, slaves sometimes became very successful, accumulated riches more than their masters, and then bought their freedom, and went on to become citizens of Rome. Does that make slavery right? Does that reflect in any way the reality of most slaves' lives, probably not. Exceptions, don't usually make a rule. You have to be a moral relavitist to think like a "lefty loony twit", evidently.
Ian
You are correct that a few female heads of state do not imply an emancipated female population, but that shouldn't distract from the fact that in an Islamic country, no woman could rise to the top on her own without her being the sole relative of a highly successful father/husband.
Arjun, I am calling these Hindus coward because they could have done something when these islamofascists were running roughshod over their lands, but no, like the Jews of Hitler Germany they always found an excuses to not to anything about these evil beings. The Jews thought” oh these are just fellow Germans and Germany is civilized country you should never think they will to anything against us Jews. The Hindus thought “oh these are fellow humans who also believe in religion and the same god as us. They don’t do the horrific deeds that others are accusing them of. Besides if they do evil to us let god punish them.”
Well, someone should write a whole book on the cowardly Hindus, Hindu reformation when Hinduism accepted Buddhism a d non violence, the second reformation when some Hindus rejected non violence and became Sikhs. How the invading islamofascists conquered the Hindu warrior caste thus opening all of India to Islamic ethnic and religious cleaning, because the non warrior Hindus refused to fight for their rights. And so on.
sheik,
I have another theory. Hindus have never been uncomfortable with women being in positions of power. The Hindus of today still worship Goddesses. Indira Gandhi was often compared to the Goddess Durga by her sycophants and opponents. All the political parties in India have very strong women in powerful positions (and contrary to what is being claimed above - not all of them are from rich aristocratic backgrounds - remember rabri devi - like her or not is a different matter) Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Indonesia, Burma are all part of the historical Hindu-Buddhist cultural zone. Hindus, Buddhists and Jains have had female monks for thousands of years. The only other people that I know off with so many strong women is ancient Greece. Over and Over again all the Hindu "mythologies" and religious stories are full of stories of strong women and very smart women. There are thick layers of Hinduism hundreds of years old lying below the coating of Islam applied on top. As the countries become more and more Islamic the possibilities of women being in positions of power become less and less. Unfortunately the British needed to justify their rule and they took some isolated traditions among some warrior clans in North India (which had been Islamically screwed for hundreds of years) and applied them to the entire Indian civilization (which is much much larger than present India) This has become part of the Western imagination to such a large extent that all the gazillions of tons of Historical and present day evidence which is to the contrary is simply brushed aside. The other problem is that because of our proximity to the middle east we get automatically bracketed with them.
To prevent any flame wars - Yes we do accept that at the present time Western women are better off than their counterparts in India on the average.
Take a look at this and this
Another fact - The part of India least affected by Islam - the Tamil lands - you have to see the women to believe it. The LTTE (although it is not a religious but an ethnic organization) has female combat regiments in uniform (no they did not hold a "debate" about the "role" of women in combat). They also have female assassination squads - the high priority work is given to the female squads. It was a woman who killed the Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.
Assalamau Laikum all,
yes an interesting debate and one that gets to the heart of the matter.
Arjun, I think that hindus are the ultimate dhimmis...(and this is the reason that Islam was/is so successful in India).
This is not to say that all hindoos were cowards...probably far from it...rather it is a failure of hindo-ism and the way it was structured by the greedy bhramim (and other learned) castes of old.
Neatly divided castes ...simply don't work.
If for example the warrior caste is defeated...and an aggressor confronts a hindoo farmer...rather than fight for his survival he will ask "where the f**k are the hindoo warriors then"....they are not doing their job"...(whereas in reality they may lie dead having fought heroically).
So this farmer ...not knowing what to do simply submits to Islam...Hinduism does not equip him with the mental tools to deal with this...he can only till the land, fight famine ...not muslims.
Any system that does this is surely doomed in the longer term. Islam however appliles equally to all ...when attacked... you start (and finish) a jihad...each and every one of you....city by city, town by town, and house by house.
That farmer who had converted...far from avoiding fighting ...now HAS to fight anyway....and with numbers on his side ...probably wins....gets gold booty and another woman to marry and slaves to work on the land that he probably got to keep anyway...in short he is a happy bunny and wondered why in Allah's name he hadn't converted before.
He now goes and and tries to get his next door farmer to covert...if he refuses...he probably disposes of him...AND get to keep his land too...it's a win-win situation.
It may not be right morally...but can you see the ruthless winning logic of it. Nobody remembers the losers (expect perhaps records of Westerners).
Islam ofcourse needs dhimmis too...somebody has to keep the economy running...so some were allowed to remain hindoos.
Arjun, perhaps your great grandfather was one of those dhimmis who worked the land under my great granfather's "supervision" and it will have remained like that for generations.
You are still hindoo while we moved on. It would have be interesting to listen to your great grandfather ...as to why he couldn't convert....perhaps Islam simply didn't want him after checking out his muscles.
Mohammed claimed to even convert jinns to Islam. What makes you think Muslims don't want weak people in their ranks? All they want is the numbers.
I'll bet that the ancestors of Arjun and other Hindus here either resisted conversion, may have at some point switched and switched back (as did Harihara and Bukka - founders of the Vijayanagar empire), or escaped under the radar. Regardless of which, they deserve our eternal gratitude.
You have to give it to Nasseem, in this case she's right.
India was ripe for the plucking because of the caste division.
I was pondering on the conquest of India for the last several days, and also thought:
A great many lower caste Hindus - the farmers, the "untouchables" then and now, transferred their allegance to the islamics because they were sick and tired of being kicked around?
Yeah, they went from the frying pay into the fire..but the ex-Hindus didn't know at the time.
Don't think the same thing didn't happen in Europe. No matter the argument about Spain, and supposed-objection to islam. There's evidence that the people in the South of Spain transferred voluntarily to the islamics - I'm talking about the indigenous Peninsulars- Tribals before the Invasion of the Visigoths.
I'm talking about the Celt-Iberians conquered by the blond branch of the Goths. These just sweep in and abused the Indigeous - right and left. The Visigoths weren't any angels - they had recently been converted to christianity, and forced it on the conquered. Corruption was rife, and finally, when the Moros came in, the common people were very happy to help in the defeat of the Visigoth Rodrigo.
Not withstanding the stance of signores Roberto and Hugh, and the challenge of the Golden Age, there is another angle here, another side if you would, and that is that the common people were very happy to go over to islam.
By the time, the visigoth Isabela and her hubby came along, the South of Spain had - yes - admittedly, by that time, Islam had mellowed - and Andalusia was floushing. One talks about dhimmis in the matter of the Jews and christians there - but the large majority ( as opposed to the small majority, etc) - was going along with the islamics.
Isabela was as greedy and despotic as the next man ( - and she was a dirty Visigoth - only taking a bath once a year); she and her ilk didn't go on the "Reconquista" route
(re-conquista - read: re conquering what they had conquered before)- they went on that route NOT because of the love of religion or love of their fellow man, but because they saw the WEALTH to be got there - the gold - the agriculture - the imports - the warm climate - the cloth - the bathhouses - the culture as opposed to their gray, dirty, smelly, COLD "castillos."
And when they took over, what did the Visigoths do, impose a worse repressive regime under Torquesada and the Inquisition.
How good was that?
You know what they did? They enslaved all the common people that had converted to islam before - these were the Moz-Arabes, the old indigenous Celt-Iberians. Couldn't win for losing, eh? So, slavery was alive and well there. The islamics commoners now became the slaves.
You know what is happeing right now in Spain? There is a movement for Secession in Andalusia.
There are protests there, and the carry signs saying:
"Queremos Ser Lo Que Eramos Antes."
(We want to be as Before)
"Libertad para Andalusia"
Unfortunately.
Everybody wants to get into the Act!
Oh, Don't get me wrong. I'm always for the common people, the evolution of humanity back to God.
So here's to you Mrs. Robinson (Nasseem)
" Jesus loves you more than you can say, hey, hey, hey":
http://www.earthdrum.com/interviewMTF.htm
"That farmer who had converted...far from avoiding fighting ...now HAS to fight anyway....and with numbers on his side ...probably wins....gets gold booty and another woman to marry and slaves to work on the land that he probably got to keep anyway...in short he is a happy bunny and wondered why in Allah's name he hadn't converted before."
....so goes the way of Islam, Convert, Submit, or die......such a "Peaceful Religion," no mention of life, liberty, love, compassion or even happiness in just being left alone to live with one's chosen religion.
.....The Muslims are openly telling you...you should listen and learn....
Ban Muslim immigration now...
Benazir Bhutto is than very wise woman and she wisely chose not to act like than western femmist who hate man and yet want to be like man with a penis. She dress very modest in public and act like a woman could. In Islam history woman many time rule from behind the throne with womanist whiles. Bin Larden of 9-11 frame try afew time to murder her while she was prime minister. She sent some of her party member to Saudic Arabic to find who was behind the attemp murder of her. The old King and the Crown
Prince now the new king like Benazir Bhutto as they like her father also. They told her bin Larden was behind the murder plot. Muslim woman are so cleaver
instead of invadeing Afghanistan with the Pakistan Army she instead sent back to bin Larden one of the dead killer body missing it penis which she keep as than memo. Her father free her from wearing the veil
so how to wear than veil and not wear one was solved when the Head Iman of Saudic Arabic said she can wear than veil so sheer and tranparn that you can see her face thought it as she not wearing the veil
but is wearing the veil.
To,
The Moderators,
Jihadwatch.org,
Dear Sirs/Madams,
My last comment on this thread was deleted though it did not contain any rude words, suggestions/demands to drop porcine poop over the holy city of a particular community, or the dreaded 8 letter word that begins with "g". What I did write about was the extreme humanity practiced by Prithviraj Chauhan, and what it led to, and the historical fact of the Sikhs being the first warriors (who actually showed the way to some other groups fighting the islamic aggression on India) to start winning the War instead of Battles against the invading muslims. Are we not allowed to post historical facts now ?
Sorry for taking up your time.
Regards,
Arjun