Gaza: Christians in the crossfire

It is always a very sad situation anytime innocents are caught in the cross fire... however, they may have been targeted. The situation for Christians in Gaza and the West Bank (and world wide for that matter)is growing more and more desperate. I hope that when they finally get the chance to leave there houses, they are able to leave that hell-hole forever. It sure isn't going to get any easier or safer for them anytime soon (if ever)...

Bring the Christians to Israel, at least temporarily, until a real solution can be found for them.

"even more dangerous than any Israeli invasion.”

...Israel never invades...they counter attack and then only after much procation....

If you want to know what dhimmitude really feels like study the 'Palestinian' Christians and all the fawning abasement they have made to Islam.

They are so used to making rote noises about the 'Brutal Israeli Occupation' and elaborate professions of brotherhood with their fellow Mulsim Palestinians who cheat, abuse and despise them that they are very hard to champion. Rather than martyrs for their faith, they seem to be going out like a sad little fart.

Robert,
It is difficult to feel anything but contempt and disgust about those Christians.
They deserve what is coming to them. For years they supported Muslims against Israel and The West. Now it is time to pay. As they standing, I would not put even a Muslim at such low level.

They deserve what is coming to them. For years they supported Muslims against Israel and The West. Now it is time to pay.
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Do you think that Western Christians, if put in the same position, would respond any differently? It's pretty easy to dismiss them from the safety of Europe and North America, no offense intended. Few of us have any idea of what it is like to live in such circumstances.

Actually, I have a certain amount of sympathy for the Falastin Arab Christians. As Dhimmi, they knew no real citizenship for millennia (especially considering how many may descended from non-Melkites in Byzantine/Roman days). One might even guess that a number descend from the Greek, Aramaean, and Hebrew Christians of the first centuries A.D.--and hence are about as "indigenous" to 'Eretz Yisrael as the Samaritans.

As for "fawning dhimmitude", a number of Arab Christians have perennially cherished the hope that they could mediate between Jews And Muslims. It never worked, of course. And, at least, the pastor quoted above noted that the situation of being caught between Hamas and Fatah is worse than the Israeli invasion.

Those who support Israel are blessed and those who curse Israel are cursed.

"Actually, I have a certain amount of sympathy for the Falastin Arab Christians. As Dhimmi, they knew no real citizenship for millennia..."
-- from a posting above

The Christian Arabs in what Western Christendom called "Palestine" hardly existed for millennia. Unlike the Copts in Egypt, or the Maronites, whose communities predated the Arab Muslim invaders, there were very few Christian Arabs in the area. Catholic and Protestant missionaries arrived in the area only in the nineteenth century, and well into it (the first two Americdan missionaries to the MIddle East set off from Boston in 1819). Save for a handful, they could hardly be described as having been there for millennia. The islamochristians of today are not merely dhimmis trying to survive, but have actively promoted, explained away, promoted the Lesser Jihad against the Infidel state of Israel, which as a few are coming to realize, is in fact their only safe haven. If Israel goes under, that is the absolute end to the Christian presence in the Middle East. And it is also the end to any Western access to the Holy Land. The kinds of concessions that the Muslims had to make when they were weak, from the time of Napoleon entering the Middle East, roughly the period 1800-1950, will never be made again. Muslim domination of that area matters mainly as a negative power: the power to deny Christians and Jews, not a real interest in the area (how many mon-Jordanian Arab or Muslim leaders visited the Old City of Jerusalem when it was in Muslim hands from 1948 to 1967? Answer: None.)

One thing slightly separates the Arabic-speaking dhimmi from the others: he may be appealed to, at times, on the basis of ethnicity, and that sense of shared "Uruba" or "Arabness" can translate into Christian "Arab" support for what is essentially a Muslim "Arab" worldview, and goal. Rare among the Maronites, less rare among the Copts in Egypt (but once they get free, once they get to the Western world, all kinds of inhibitions and fears may be thrown off). But certainly present among the likes of Naim Ateek, Hanan Ashrawi, Michel Sabbagh, and of course Cappucci (Kapoudji), the "Palestinian" icon thief and weapons-smuggler for the PLO.

Bush pushed for free elections, and they responded with the election of Hamas, and the "palestinian" people have gotten what they voted for, islam.

Everyone who follows Christ should leave if they wish to survive, come out from them.

Hugh, maybe I misunderstood the quote below

"One thing slightly separates the Arabic-speaking dhimmi from the others: he may be appealed to, at times, on the basis of ethnicity, and that sense of shared "Uruba" or "Arabness" can translate into Christian "Arab" support for what is essentially a Muslim "Arab" worldview, and goal. Rare among the Maronites, less rare among the Copts in Egypt (but once they get free, once they get to the Western world, all kinds of inhibitions and fears may be thrown off)."

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a common "Arabness" sometimes means that the Arab Christians, particularly the Copts in Egypt support the Muslim "Arab" worldview... but this is rare among the Maronites?

While I would agree that this does happen far too often for my liking among the Copts... because when it happens at all... it far too often, I have to disagree that it is something rare among the Maronites... in fact, it happens far more often among the Maronite, then among the Copts. Michele Aoun is a perfect example... the unholy alliance between the Maronites and Hizballah is something that I find astonishing... I know of NO Copt that is so cosy with say the Muslim Brotherhood or Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Moreover, Copts (like Maronites) donot consider themselves "Arabs"... Copts believe themselves to be 'true Egyptians' (Hamites) and the Maronites believe themselves to be Phoenicians... so there is no common "Arab" identity. Though, sadly, I would have to agree that the Copts are all too often silent when they shouldn't be... most (if not all) of them loath their second-class status... and have a growing disdain for anything Islamic. The most popular program here in Egypt among the Copts is Abuna Zacharais (Al Hayat). If you where to listen to Father Zacharais, you would think you were listening to Robert or yourself translated into Arabic (which is exactly what I thought when I first heard him on the TV when I was in my study). The Copts that I have loaned Robert's books to have made the same analogy… some even believe that Robert uses him as his source, but, of course, the reason for the striking similarity is because they both use common sources (e.g. the Qu’ran, Hadith, Sunnah and many Muslim scholars… most important though, it is because it is the spot on truth. I believe that if we equate silence or misplaced tolerance (political correctness) for support, then certainly it is not only the Christians in the Middle East and North Africa who are guilty.

dudeinwales,
As you quote me, I feel it is important for me to answer.
Yes, it is easy for me “to dismiss them from the safety of Europe and North America”.
My comment was not just an expression of an opinion. I do have moral right to the statement I made. For almost 30 years I lived under circumstances when for a little comfort I had to part with dignity. Many people did just that – I did not and will never do.
When I chose dignity over life, I was not sure if I can maintain such choice under severe pressure. Unfortunately life provided me with a few “opportunities” to test my choice and those were much more challenging then those the arab Christians face today. That is how I got the ‘idea” of what it is like”…

Hamas's election victory was not just a declaration of approval for accelerated jihad against Israel; it was also a protest against the terror, corruption, and lawlessness under Arafat's PLO/Fatah. (See the essay by Nadav Haetzni, "In Arafat's Kingdom", which is reprinted in "The Middle East Peace Process: An Autopsy" (Kozodoy, ed.) Nevertheless, sympathy for the Arabs living under the Palestinian Authority is something I cannot muster. They have perpetuated and upheld a hell of their own devising.

"One might even guess that a number descend from the Greek, Aramaean, and Hebrew Christians of the first centuries A.D.--and hence are about as "indigenous" to 'Eretz Yisrael as the Samaritans." posted by Kepha.

and...

"The Christian Arabs in what Western Christendom called "Palestine" hardly existed for millennia. Unlike the Copts in Egypt, or the Maronites, whose communities predated the Arab Muslim invaders, there were very few Christian Arabs in the area. Catholic and Protestant missionaries arrived in the area only in the nineteenth century, and well into it (the first two Americdan missionaries to the Middle East set off from Boston in 1819). Save for a handful, they could hardly be described as having been there for millennia." posted by Hugh

While it's true that there were no protestants and almost no ROMAN Catholics, the Melkites and Orthodox have maintained a continual presence since Roman Times. During the time of the Byzantines, Palestine was a province of a Christian empire with a Christian majority (and substantial Jewish and Samaritan minorities). Read the accounts of the Islamic conquest. The majority of these families did not convert to Islam but maintained their Christian and Jewish faiths even under Muslim persecution.

Some of the Christian and Jewish families have even lived on the same land for over a thousand years. Although they have been classified as "Arab" Christians, that is only because the Arabic language became the lingua franca in over the last couple of centuries. Read the British accounts from a century ago and it speaks of Arab Christians and Arab Jews living in Palestine (and Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Morocco etc.). They spoke Arabic but certainly weren't and aren't Arabs in the Ishmailite/Hagarene sense.

In fact, both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians spoke Aramaic until the mid-Ottoman period. On exception was Ramallah which was founded by Ghassanid Christians from southern Jordan who fled to Palestine as refugees 700 years ago. The spoke Arabic but intermarried with the Aramaic Christians already living in Jerusalem. Recent DNA projects have shown that Palestinian Christians from Nazareth, Jerusalem, and Bethlehem (who've always been there) and Palestinian Jews are closely related. One test showed Halabys (Christians) and Halevis (Jews) to have the same familial origin. This should not be surprising considering the Jewish origins of Christianity in that land. BTW, If I can locate the web address of the results of that test, I'll send it to you and Robert.

All this goes to show that local Jews, Christians, and Samaritans have a common origin and only they have a right to be called indigenous to Palestine. It makes no sense to lump the Christians in with the Muslims. Whatever dhimmitude they've shown has been forced on them by being oppressed by the Muslims and ignored by the Jews. Remember, the tiny community of Samaritans show the same attitudes as the Christians.

This is worse than a crime, it is a mistake. Everything must be done to save the Palestinian Christian community and forge a strong alliance between them and the Israelis. After all, they truly are brothers. For this to happen, real leaders must be promoted among the Palestinian Christians. Israel was successful doing this with the Lebanese Christians, until they betrayed them. Since we now see the results of what happened when the alliance with the Lebanese Christans was abandoned, this is a lesson Israel should learn and never repeat.

Perhaps a Kataeb Filistine could be organized. This group could insist on the status of Christians as the true Palestinians and the rightful owners of Bethlehem, Nazareth and Ramallah. Then in order to enforce their legitimate rights to their own lands in Judea, Samaria and Nazareth, they will insist on the peaceful and humane transfer of the Muslims to Jordan. In the current political climate, Israel cannot get away with this themselves, but could come to the humanitarian assistance of a legitimate Christian Palestinian government that is removing illegal immigrants.

For evidence of the continual presence of Aramaic and Arabic speaking Melkites in Palestine check out:
http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol1No2/HV1N2Desreumaux.html

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0041-977X(1994)57%3A1%3C14%3AAMAL%22F%3E2.0.CO%3B2-D

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-62658419.html

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2968(199604)55%3A2%3C158%3AACITMO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T

And an example of Israeli stupidity in alienating potential Christian allies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafr_Bir'im