by Stephen Brown:
The growth of Islam in Europe is challenging deeply-held notions that faith is a private matter which should be banished from public life, a prominent sociologist of religion has told a gathering of European Christian leaders."We ignore the presence of Islam at our peril," Professor Grace Davie of the University of Exeter in Britain told leaders from Europe's main Christian traditions at a 15-18 February meeting in Wittenberg in Germany. "This is a catalyst for a much more profound change in the religious landscape of Europe."
[...]
"The presence of Islam is a catalyst that has reopened issues that Europeans thought were closed," Davie said on 16 February. "You cannot privatise Islam. We have seen that." But she said Christian churches had a major task in helping to find ways to deal with such public expression of religion.
"Public expression of religion." Here we have a good example of the tendency of commentators to take refuge in vague language. Such a statement could only be made by a religiously unserious person. The earlier observation that "Islam cannot be privatised" is right on, but how, exactly, are "Christian churches" supposed to help with this problem? If "faith is a private matter," what business does Christianity have tackling a public problem?
Davie was presenting the results of recent research on the place of religion in Europe, in which she wrote about the controversy over the cartoons: "The lack of comprehension on both sides of this affair, together with an unwillingness to compromise, led alarmingly fast to dangerous confrontations, both in Europe and beyond."The notion that religion should be banished from public life -- and particularly from the state and from the education system -- was widespread in Europe, Davie noted.
"Religion should be banished from public life." Europe so far has done a stellar job scrubbing itself clean of the religion that made its existence possible -- Christianity -- all the while failing to realize that not all religions are created equal. This is not a struggle between secular Europe and "religion" but between a Europe drained of its cultural life-blood and Islam.
But in part due to the presence of Islam, religion was increasingly likely to penetrate the public sphere in Europe, a tendency being encouraged by the ever more obvious presence of religion in the modern global order.
This semantic shell game of "Islam" and "religion" has got to stop. It's not "religion" that's the problem here; it is a VERY PARTICULAR religion.
However, this was "probably more of a problem for the secular elite than the Christian churches", Davie suggested in her comments in Wittenberg. She said, "We need to grasp how to deal with religion in the political sphere and here Christian churches have a huge contribution to make."
If Christianity has been excluded from the public square -- and quite rightly it would seem according to Professor Davie -- how is it supposed to make a "huge contribution"? Now that SS Secular Europe is in danger of being swamped by the rising Islamic tide, now they turn to Christianity for help. Better late than never, but as long as "religion" is relegated to the public sidelines -- in Europe and elsewhere -- Islam will continue to vault from strength to strength.
I am living in Bavaria, one of the most conservative places in Europe with many devout Christians - and still we have that problems with Muslims here as well. Thank God most of them are Turks who tend to be more secular than British Paktistanis etc.
Still my experiences show me, that there is only ONE way to deal with Islam and its followers: Don't let them in your country!!
The whole West (Europe as well as the United States) needs a completely different immigration policy...I think this is the only way to solve that problem and make our homes safe again.
PS. I don't know if this has been posted before, but it's really worth being reposted anyway:
"Swim centre bars two-year-old girl because she isn't Muslim"
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23385279-details/Swim+centre+bars+two-year-old+because+she+isn't+Muslim/article.do
Religion is what keeps people in faith from God. Catholics have a Pope to go between and Islam has their clerics. Europe for all practical purposes into Russia has no faith in God. It's Chruches are pretty masterpieces with no one talking with God inside.
That is why Europe is having major problems as they kicked out God a very long time ago for the socialist order.
America is learning the hard way the same lesson as our children are being destroyed without faith in anything but Tom Cruise.
The Rabbi's preach Talmudic meanderings and that being a Jew is special, instead of having people read the Tanakh and search for God's Spirit to lead.
The Orthodox Russian and Greek are the same problem as Rome in big robes, big hats and big sermons standing in the way to God.
Protestants are few and far between now with the roots of them coming to America.
Islam appeals to those who are powerless and with no self esteem which is what immigrants are looking for to blame others. They are like a union in feeling powerful in marches.
Europe needs God. Islam needs God and America needs God as there is only one God. The problem is people think He is frail as they are and not dynamic enough to have living personalities of a Father, His Thought coming alive and His Spirit touching His children on earth.
There is nothing private about religion and there is nothing private about faith. It is all meant to be shared in how we help each other and not hate.
People never have listened to God or try very hard to implement what He says we must be.
Yorkshireminer has translated an excerpt from Geert Wilgers website
the full is here
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
and more
EXACTLY
Thats what I have been trying to say all along.
Immigrants who want to publicize their religion shouting about it from top of the roof should Banned.
Onlu muslim immigrants seems to publicise their religion and want others to give concessions for it.
Other immigrants like the chinese , indian hindus, jews , budhhists never seem to make such a hue and cry about their religion and practice it in private.
Why cant the dam Muslims do that. Why do they bring religion into evert aspect of life right from politics, job,school,sports etc etc. Why cant they leave the relion in their home like other immigrants when they steop out.
secularism being murdered by the cult of islam....
how appropirate.............
Slightly OT - re: Salt Lake mall shootings.
A charitable fund is being raised to help the family of the mass murderer Sulejman Talovic to ship the body back to Bosnia.
And this came up in
http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660196146,00.html
Oh that one. I would never have guessed.
Why is it necessary to take the body to Bosnia? I seem to remember that the body of the mass murdering Pakistani suicide bomber in London was taken to Pakistan for burial. Why so?
And then there is that hoary old quote from the religion of mass murderers. The fact that it came up indicates to me that even the father of Sulejman Talovic is thinking in religious terms.
This appears to be a case of confusion between the exclusion of religion from state matters versus that of public life. Europe's history has been one of state sanctioned churches and its subsequent eschewal of religion altogether is symptomatic of an over-reaction to their earlier mistakes.
Europe's inability to recognize Islam's obsessive theocratic aspirations simply defies all logic. The yawning gulf between their aversion to public religion and Islam's comprehensive subscription to all things deistic should make this a no-brainer.
My own view is that this represents one of many noxious pigeons coming home to roost over France's blatant Eurabia pact.
I think Christians and Jews have a role to play, in alerting other non-Muslims about the danger of Islam, and that immigration needs to be restricted.
Islam derives its secular power from a handful of Western leaders. How is it that one, two, five individuals can force millions of other unwilling individuals to live with islam
Truly an amazing saga -- the secular masses deserve what they get for allowing this to happen.
Muslim nut works on the trains in UK
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007070779,00.html
Europe so far has done a stellar job scrubbing itself clean of the religion that made its existence possible -- Christianity -- all the while failing to realize that not all religions are created equal. This is not a struggle between secular Europe and "religion" but between a Europe drained of its cultural life-blood and Islam.
Incredible insight.... Please, secular folks, take heart....
If you chuck the word religion and substitute worldview, its easy to see how the privatization argument is unsound. The issues of origin, meaning, morality and destiny and one's presuppositions about them will inevitably influence public life, for better or for worse. Rather than squashing all public discourse about spiritual issues, the sane thing to do is allow people to participate in the free market of ideas at the cultural level, and defend their positions on their own merit. Ridiculous ideas become marginalized because there's no external evidence to support them, and tenable ones are adopted because there is.
The most obvious issue here is the cultural vilification of Christianity in the west, and the incongruous protection of Islamic thought under the guise of multiculturalism in the same places. You can't have it both ways and expect anything different than the result Europe is experiencing.
Daniel, I read about the two year old being refused admittance to swim lessons.
THIS IS RELIGIOUS APARTHIED.
Yes, YOU TOO, can be a victim of religious apartheid if you are not a muslim.
This is just like what happened in South Africa, only instead of race, it's with religion.
If muslims want their own swim times, then they should build their own private swimming pool, and have their own private swimming club.
Instead of concentrating on political parties etc, why not start an "OPPOSITION TO RELIGIOUS APARTHEID" movement, in Britain and around the world.
We will not be prevented from living our lives they way that we want according to the religious beliefs of others.
This covers not just muslims, but that incident in Canada, when a orthodox Jewish synagogue wanted the windows of a gym covered so that they would not have to see women exercising in leotards, and any other religous group that wants to tell the rest of us what to do, and how to live.
I'm serious about this.
Please contact me at Elvendell@bigpond.com.au
"if you kill one innocent person, it's like you killed the whole world. It's in our book,"
So how do Muslims define "innocent"? It would be nice to know. Office and restaurant workers weren't innocent because, according to Osama, they "supported the American system". Neither, apparently, were airline passengers.
Is there a Muslim definition of innocence?
Does it apply to ANY non-Muslims?
Is there a Muslim dictionary anywhere that can answer these very simple (to the point of being simplistic) questions?
Clive, ridiculous ideas don't necessarily become marginalised. Look at the growth of Scientology where they believe that humans come from thetans who were aliens from outer space.
In fact, the more ridiculous the idea the more people are inclined to believe it.
People have the right to criticise christianity, even villify it. They should also have the same right to criticise and villify Islam.
Wild Cherry...there 'is' only one God, but it is not Allah.
From above: the Quran came up in their conversation.(Oh yes, I wonder which one) "He said (Suljo Talovic,) if you kill one innocent person, it's like you killed the whole world. It's in our book,"
The only innocent people Islam recognises are muslims. All the rest of you various types of non-believers are guilty. You are guilty of not submitting to Allah. You are guilty of not converting, and paying the jakat tax, or you are guilty of not submitting as a dhimmi, and paying the jizya tax. Not submitting marks you for death.
When they kill you, it will not be as if they killed the whole world, it will be a grand and glorious action against the guilty enemys of Allah. Allahu Akbar is the name, killing kufars is the game. So much for innocent people...kufars are not among them...
Clive, ridiculous ideas don't necessarily become marginalised. Look at the growth of Scientology where they believe that humans come from thetans who were aliens from outer space.
I can't agree more that all ideas should be open to criticism, including Christianity. There will be those who buy it, and those who don't, and those who do must be willing to have their views challenged. The government and the media, however, appear willing to give Islamism a pass and, in fact, brand any criticism of its tenets as hate crimes.
I disagree with you about Scientology. Inspite of its recent growth, there are not sufficient numbers of Scientologists to have a major impact on mainstream life.
Re: Islam challenges European view that religion is private
The truth is that a civilization and its faith die together. This was true in the ancient Roman Empire. But new faiths, or renewals of faith, are always at hand. Religion is persistent. Islam may be dieing because of the violence, the permissions to deception, the will to domination inherent in it. Christ taught that we must cease all lying and hypocrisy in order to see God. Islam is about domination. We may be seeing the birth of a new Christian era. Anyone who knows the sublime teachings of Jesus, who compares them to Mohammad, is compelled to look at the teachings of Jesus very seriously. Jihad may not be avant-garde, but rear guard.
Many Muslims will say that the Muslim "religion" only permits deception under certain circumstances. But that misses the point. It permits deception. Jesus said ALL deception-hypocrisy comes from the evil one. Jesus only condemned hypocrites. He was gentle with sinners, though he did not condone sin. He saw our weakness as part of our humanity, and did not condemn human nature when we accepted the truth about ourselves.
Spencer writes:
"This semantic shell game of "Islam" and "religion" has got to stop. It's not "religion" that's the problem here; it is a VERY PARTICULAR religion."
To which I say: Amen!
What is the truth about human nature? What is the truth about ourselves? What did Jesus ask us to see?
Every state, every nation, every empire in history has been established by violence, by the subjugation, the cultural extermination, the forced submission of some recently "native" peoples. This was true of the Aztec Empire, the Arab Empire, the Spanish Empire, all empires. The killing-exploitation machines roll over the earth and exploit others, kill others, usually (insultingly) in the name of God Almighty. (Even America removed the "natives" (who were busy killing each other), though America has less blood on its founding hands than most because North America (above Spanish Mexico) was largely very cold wilderness most of the year).
But the foundation of these empires, nations, writes in large script what in every man's heart. That's what Jesus wanted us to accept about ourselves. He told us that "the truth will make us free".
The will to domination, the will to exploitation, the rationalizations to evil that are in all our hearts, are written in large script in the history of nations and empires. The behavior of nations and empires are reflections of ourselves. The Arabs invented the most effective killing-exploitation-and rationalization for conquest machine in history. It is very similar to the Spanish machine in the New World. But both reflect a self-righteous, stupid arrogance, that nailed Christ to a cross. Jesus accepted our nature, recognized it, as we don't.
Religion is part of man. Religion is human. It has the power to make us fully human, or to make us beasts. It's not going away-ever.
Islam won’t just sneak in by the back door and take over Britain.
To be honest I’m sick of being told that the Muslims are going to rule the world. They won’t. They have nothing to offer the liberals who love them so much and they have no leeway with the realists. Actually what do they have to offer?
Every Despot offers something. Even Hitler offered work for all and an opportunity to regain respect. Islam offers only to Islamaniacs. Nobody else wants it.
What’s a moderate? It is a jihadi who hasn’t learnt that a vote for Sharia is a vote for their deportation.
Do these people think the UK is incapable of putting soldiers on the streets? We don’t need a civil war in Britain, because we have the Paras. U2 didn't write a fictional song about British soldiers on British streets.
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye".-Jesus
No wonder the hypocrite-pharisees hated Jesus. We still have a Pharisee problem.
Muslims, mostly only Turks, go there to work, have a crapy job. Their youth does not want to work like their parents did. They are not really Euro, even if look like a bit. They can’t share in style; get nostalgic about their former homelands and jealous of wealthy Euro natives. Europe always enjoyed having some sort of lower level citizens around. And why not? Its cheap labour!
West Europeans spent centuries fighting over weather one should attend the church and pay tribute to the clergy. If you’ll tell them they’ll have to pray 5 times a day to some Muhammad (that Charles Martel sent packing) and wear sandals you’re going to see a real world war III.
I think what makes the in Europe so mad is the fact that there is nothing they can do to counter Euro anti – Semitism which is regardless of demographics and numbers is refusing to go away. Truly, Europe spends millions keeping the floodgate against nationalists. European native youth without PC censorship?... It’s like never ending football game fight multiplied by 1000. And so Muslims are feeling this divide and since they just can’t take rejection they are quick to get nostalgic. Why not just go back to your own dusty states? LET ME IN INFIDEL!
duh_swami is right,
Kafirs are najis so there is no consideration regarding guilt or innocence at all.
http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html
"It's not "religion" that's the problem here; it is a VERY PARTICULAR religion."
God is using our enemies to wake us up. The West has left the TRUTH which is Jesus-- and His Church which is Catholic.
Now with the sword is at our back-- maybe we will wake up to the reality that Christianity truly is from God and is a better for man and society than Islam.
Enough RELATIVISM!!!
http://www.realclearreligion.com
Stephen Brown makes a very important point: with the rise of Islam in the West and especially in ill-fated Europe, religion can no longer be seen as just a private matter, because one large and very peculiar religion, Islam, is not a private matter. Muslims think in terms of “we” meaning the umma or Muslim community and it’s a “we” imbedded in a totalitarian political ideology that necessarily tries to cross over into all society. This, of course, means trouble even apart from the issue of home-grown jihadism.
The West most cope with to things it didn’t have to deal with for centuries past when the Protestant & Catholic Churches held great power. The Islamic mindset naturally demands a life under Sharia with all the barbarisms of women subjugation, stoning & mutilations. As populations increase, so does the political influence of this non-private 7th century ideology.
Muslim immigration and its family bring-over privileges must be severely restricted or stopped while non-Muslims in the West still have the numbers and the political power to do so.
“in ill-fated Europe.”
What about ill fated America? You have a wide choice of Dhimmicrats to look forward too while we are at the end of our scumbag governments shelf life.
I believe America is as likely to fall as Britain. There you go I’ve said it.
I love the blog that you have. I was wondering if you would link my blog to yours and in return I would do the same for your blog. If you want to, my site name is American Legends and the URL is:
http://www.americanlegends.blogspot.com
If you want to do this just go to my blog and in one of the comments just write your blog name and the URL and I will add it to my site.
Thanks,
Mark
Hey mert,
I resent that, we are at the end of our scumbag gubments shelflife as well! I don’t know about every American but when I mention Europe I don’t include the UK. You guys are bigger than that. Remember, during WWII we came to assist our cousins, in the beginning there was no talk of a Euro invasion in our ranks, that came later. So we have shown that in defense we are willing to assist the UK but not so quick to help Europe.
http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm
And they think the Pres has poor numbers. Dumb meets Dumber.
What nonsense.
Academia and the Press are the ones who need to wake up. The Christian churches can do little, as they've been greatly weakened and largely abandoned thanks to the rise of reason and science and critical thinking.
I would argue quite the opposite to a "revitalization" of Christianity as an answer to anything.
Instead, uncompromising seperation of church and state is the way forward, and that we, the modern world, deliver the idiological and intellectual beating to Islam that was given to the Christian church.
You see, it is a battle of complete system of superstition and irrational belief cast in stone from a thousand years ago VS. the modern world and the fact and science and logic and reason.
Certainly, Christianity and Jewish principles developed by thinkers of the ages contributed greatly, but much of modern western civilization and its structures comes from Greek and Roman models and principles among others.
Christianity has survived by gaining some measure of reason to it -- by abandoning much of the destructive nature it had around the time when Islam was invented. But that's because it was curbed by science and enlightment. It has a fictional character in the lead who has been shaped by writers to embody a mostly humanist and positive nature -- so therefore this was possible. The warlord who invented Islam by slapping together a variety of other sources and cobling it together with a comprehensive political agenda, has been unmasked as anything but a virtuous person by modern humanist standards. As we can read in a growing number of factual and truthful biographies from Robert Spencer among others which are rapidly surplanting the incomplete and laughable academia versions which are fictional in comparison.
The logical road, all things considered, is an even greater leap towards a seperation of church and state in all areas with enforced criminal codes which emphasize deportations for those who demonstrate that they are opposed to the law of the land. Robert Spencer has produced an excellent plan for this deportation pre-planning. Partnered with vastly reduced immigration policy, it will work quite well.
And, frankly, I would propose the (impossible to achieve it seems) advancement of science over fiction when it comes to a country's education system both in schools and other educational mediums. It is time for science and reason to take over and reassert itself. Scientists and public figures should begin challenging the beliefs of muslims on television and in the press. ANd so should the public. It should be an onslaught of inescapable fact and logic, proving everything they believe to be laughable when held up to the light. An example needs to be made of them, quite frankly. It will result in a lot of friction, violence, and, ultimately, abaondonment of the ambitions of Islamic supremicists and no doubt a lot of new, logically thinking freed ex-muslims.
Christianity has been beaten down enough, although there is a real mess with the new supercharged fundementalist Christianity in the United States. Insane arguements against evolution and science in general is the result of a supercharged new Christianity. It is a disasterous thing for the modern world to regress back to.
No, by pushing more for reason and science, and uncompromised seperation of church and state in all aspects of life, the greater the wedge between the western world as we know it and the Islamic agenda, is created.
Force the Islamists to deal with reality, everywhere they look. Force them with challenges against their empty beliefs. Force them, just like Christianity was forced, but using all the tools that reason has brought us. They will break under the onslaught. As "I" said long ago, and offer again for consideration:
It will not do to investigate the subject of religion too closely, as it is apt to lead to Infidelity.
Daniel wrote about Turks in Bavaria: "Thank God most of them are Turks who tend to be more secular than British Paktistanis"
From what I've heard, Turkish Muslims are the main perpetrators of "honor killings" in Germany, and have been for many years.
In one sense, the Muslims are right: Secularism does not work. Banishing religion from public life only opens the door to the dominance of totalitarian ideology, whether Communists, Nazi, or Islamic. Europe must return to its roots and declare itself formally Judeo-Christian. If Muslims want to immigrate to Europe, they should first be required to convert.
"Swim centre bars two-year-old girl because she isn't Muslim"
Many years ago, in the 1970s, Paul McCartney decided a radical change of venue would inspire his creative talents, and so he took his post-Beatle pre-Wings band down to Africa -- to Nigeria in particular, where he laid down many of the tracks that eventually would form his album Band On The Run. Among the experiences he had there (such as being mugged in an alley after dark) was when he tried to put his infant daughter naked in a public swimming pool and everyone there forbade him from doing it. He was mystified as to why it was such a big deal for a tiny little girl to be naked in public. Little did he know about Islam and its schizophrenic puritanism.
As long as government has the right to shove religion in the closet, and yet allow Islam to rule the streets, then government has no one else to blame but themselves. Government takes the words off public walls, but allows the burkas to roam the public streets, all the way through identification data-basing, who elses fault could this be ?
As an adjunct to my long post above, I offer another statement from another statesman to support my position that the beating down of Islam with science is the answer, rather than revitalization of Christianity. Sir Winston Churchill:
"No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
1899
This semantic shell game of "Islam" and "religion" has got to stop. – Thank you Greg, nice article.
9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
- Extortion
5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
- Felonious Behavior
Islam is much more than a religion, it calls for extortion and the murder of those who refuse to submit to its demands. Islam clearly meets the requirements of a ‘corrupt organization’ under the RICO statutes.
Murder and extortion are felonies, and thus qualify as ‘racketeering activity’. The threat of racketeering activity is enough to complete the offence. Because these threats have been going on for generations, they can be defined as a ‘pattern of racketeering activity’, and thus qualify for prosecution under RICO. Islam, in addition to being a religion is also a corrupt organization. Those ‘associated’ with a corrupt organization can be prosecuted.
When the time comes, those who elect not to renounce their faith, can be defined as being associated with Islam. RICO jail sentences are long. As an alternative, repatriation should be offered.
I remember that in my childhood we used to fund raise every year for the missionaries in the third world countries. Now that the third world has moved into our respective countries, we need to send our missionaries into our cities and towns to spread the good news. This is one of the last rights that we still enjoy and we should get with the program,pronto. Onward christian soldiers and in christian lands!
Any objections?
To be honest I’m sick of being told that the Muslims are going to rule the world. They won’t. They have nothing to offer the liberals who love them so much and they have no leeway with the realists. Actually what do they have to offer?
Ding, ding, ding ... We have a WINNER!
This is the Million Dollar Question:
What redeeming qualities does Islam possess?
Answer that one single question and you have defined the entire argument about why the West must oppose Islam's pursuit of global domination.
Plainly put; Islam has no redeeming qualities.
There is not one single aspect of modern day Islam that should save it from history's scrap heap. It is an outmoded, barbaric and Neanderthal mindset that no longer has any applicability in civilized society.
Instead, uncompromising seperation of church and state is the way forward, and that we, the modern world, deliver the idiological and intellectual beating to Islam that was given to the Christian church."
It is extremely difficult to argue with what you say, A.L.. Separation of church and state may well be one of the single most important aspects that allowed for America's political supremacy. Freedom of religion plays no small part either, but segregating all religious and government functions has easily proven to be a touchstone for all other freedoms we enjoy.
GHW Bush's enduring political legacy might be far greater had he not worked so hard to erode the separation of church and state in America. It remains a principal stumbling block to my having any true regard for the man as an American president. The hypocrisy of spilling American blood fighting theocracy abroad while simultaneously installing it at home is simply unconscienceable.
Islam's obsession with theocratic rule must be its death knell. The spectacle of watching liberals court the Muslim vote in their attempts to unseat the current Republican administration is nothing short of laughable. Second only to it is the transparently self-serving cooperation of Muslims with those whom they would behead first, namely, the liberals. That the Democrats steadfastly refuse to even consider such a notion relegates them to well-deserved political irrelevance.
Both parties must stop sipping at the Kool-Aid of Islam being any sort of "Religion of Peace". That Bush and nearly every other politician continues to do this is tantamount to giving aid and comfort to the enemy. This unwillingness to call a spade a spade is what will almost certainly make it require a terrorist nuclear attack upon American soil before the public finally militates towards an anti-Islamic position.
We must begin to make American (and all Western) culture Muslim unfriendly. Some simple ways to do this:
Ban all halal slaughtering as inhumane.
Where are all the liberal animal rights groups like PETA and ALF when it comes to slitting an animal's throat and allowing it to bleed to death without benefit of any anesthesia? That's precisely what halal slaughtering is and this little chestnut alone exposes a huge degree of bias and hypocrisy within the liberal community.
Ban the burqa and niqab.
Both garments are a threat to the public's well being as they permit concealment of identity thereby enfringing upon our need for security.
Ban all glorification of terrorists and terrorism.
No "Magnificent 19". No praising of bin Laden. No public demonstrations of support for known terrorist organizations. This is not an issue of free speech. It goes to the root of eradicating all support for terrorists and their causes. Certain forms of speech are already proscribed. No falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. No death threats against other individuals. So should it be with the glorification of terrorists and terrorism.
Dismantle the halawa network.
This informal financial funds transferring network is responsible for massive infusions of capital in the form of zakat to terrorist organizations. It must be taken apart at the seams and shut down permanently.
No special dispensations regarding provisions for halal requirements.
No halal school menus, no denominational prayer rooms at public facilities and institutions. No prayer breaks five times a day. Absolutely no accommodation of "Muslim sensitivities". They are endless and impossible to completely satisfy, so do not try to, ever. Period.
Amen to the brothers and sisters in Christ. I enjoy being in the company of Christians, but thrusting forward as beacons of light in the darkness you and I must. Jesus said judge not unless you are judged; and we have been judged. Jesus rebuked the ways of the Pharisees, and following His way, we must rebuke them as well. In this age of relativism, when everything is suspended in the vacuum of dark space, it is difficult to know from up and down, from right and wrong. Let the lord lead you. Do not be lead by Caesar (a.k.a. the political and education systems,) but the New Testament itself. March on Christian soldier.
Faction leader of the Freedom Party (PVV) Geert Wilders is a Dutchman who may be BEST qualified to be President of the EU. If a German [we don;t get along so well with the Dutch. Long live 1974!] says so then it HAS to be at least a strong consideration.
I love the way he talks. Finally a Dutchman with some else besides cheese in his brain. Long live Mr. Geert Wilders and I hope he'll be a good influence on his countrymen!
Before we all get too carried away by this article I would just like to point out that Prof. Davie does not mean, and cannot mean, exactly what she has been reported to have said.
If I may, I would like to remind you all that Prof. Davie is a Director of the Centre for European Studies which is one of the most notorious left-wing, almost Marxist in its approaches to just about every social issue, parts of European academic life.
Remember that one of the people whom she supports as Director is Mr. William Tupman who is a Senior Lecturer in Politics (at Exeter University), specialising, as they would have it, in Police and Criminal Justice Studies and the co-author of Policing in Europe , Diversity in Uniform (Intellect 1998) which is one of the most appalling apologies for dhimmitude which I have ever read.
What is more, this person, Prof. Davie, has openly voiced her support for another member of the so-called Centre for European Studies namely Dr Chris Longman, also a lecturer at Exeter University and the Deputy Director of the Centre for European Studies. Apparently he has research interests in the politics of cultural diversity in Europe, the construction of European identity, language and politics (focusing on the language regime of the European Union, and the political implications of the use of English as a 'lingua franca'), European integration, multi-level governance, regions and regionalism in Europe, and sub-state nationalism. He is also currently involved in the Exeter group of the EU-funded CIDEL consortium on Citizenship and Democratic Legitimacy in Europe.
This entire so-called Centre is interested in only two things: de-constructing Europe in favour of moslems and advancing arguments against the sovereignty of our nation states. Most of the members of this putative and self-important centre are un-reconstructed marxists of the old school and all seem to have a history of anti-democratic activity.
The University of Exeter, not one of the Chartered Universities but a new and loose confederation of several academically sub-standard colleges given the dubious legal status of University by a misguided UK government which knew that a Charter would never be granted by the Monarch, is (in)famous throughout the UK as being a hotbed of recidivist marxist thought and communist sympathisers whose only aim is the subversion of democracy and freedom and the destruction of the West. That they receive taxpayers money in order to indoctrinate young men and women is a national scandal often referred to in the British media.
Whatever Prof. Davie and her disreputable cohort may now be saying, believe me she, and they, is/are not on our side. She, and the staff at this so-called centre, fully understand and appreciate the concepts of taqiya and kitman and know exactly how to use them against us and everything which we hold dear.
They are, despite this article, and not to put too fine a point on it, liars and traitors.
Dominic.
Yes, Islam is a huge, huge problem, and if we could eradicate it from Europe all the better. However, religion itself is a poison. While there are those benign enough to use it for good, never to criticise a gay person but welcome him/her into church, marriage, all the institutions that Christianity (say) upholds, then fine. But that's not the case. Religion wants to interfere in people's lives, and it is far better conducted in private between consenting adults.
Religious schools of whatever stripe are just a segregation machine (look at Northern Ireland). Religious 'leaders' speak out against stem-cell research (that religiose nutter G W Bush believes embrios are people, for goodness' sake!). The Anglican Communion is tearing itself apart because its wackier elements, notably the African bishops, can't accept that sexuality is a fact of life, like gravity (let them believe it's God-given if they wish), and is here to be celebrated and enjoyed. It is this uptightness with such matters that leads to problems, not accepting sexuality as something good (which happens, when conducted in certain circumstances, to lead to procreation, but of course it's not intended for that, in that it is not intended for anything, and to believe so means belief in someon to do the intending, which is teleological thinking and thus not sound argument).
So let us stick religion where it belongs: out of public life altogether. Then Islam goes there, too, and publicly it and other religions are not taken seriously as anything other than a hobby, a special interest or something to be studied. Yes, Christianity - well, Christians, at any rate - did play a part in the building of Europe, but Europe would have happened without superstition. We certainly don't need religion as an explanatory model for the cosmos or life within it. We used to do, but not any more.
Here in the UK we can't have a national mourning or celebration without some geezer pracing about in a frock with a knob on his head chanting nonsense to a sky fairy. If we took that nonsense out of public life, then those of us who don't share those superstitions might be able to take part without feeling like total prats.
So let's get religion out of it, Robert, and then we can build a society based on reason and compassion and art and culture without having to refer to some desiccated texts and having old farts tell us this or that is wrong (and can stop paying tax pounds/euros/dollars to religions just because they are religions, as happens in the UK with tax breaks and charity status). And, yes, we need to tackle the evil of Islam in particular, but consigning all religion to the private sphere is a start. No religion can then take a hold, because no religion is allowed into public life.
In case you all think that I was a little harsh, a little alarmist, in my last post then just go to:
http://www.centres.ex.ac.uk/ces/index.shtml
and observe closely the picture at the top of the page.
By God, and all that is Holy, that should tell you all that you need to know about these stupid people and their academic (excuse me? academic?)
biases!
Dominic.
Religion is the problem. It has to go and be replaced by a new Enlightenment with a philosophy of reason. Faith can't produce knowledge; it only gets you the dogma of one of hundreds of cults--usually the one your parents indoctrinated you with. Religion is therefore subjective, relative, and it certainly can't claim any "absolutes". Only facts are absolutes. Everyone should read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's new book "Infidel". This brave, independent minded woman thought her way out of the brutal environment of Islam, out of Islam, and out of religion altogether. You can do it also. Faith is a vice!
By-the-way, this is the person, Prof. Grace Davie, who works closely with Daniele Hervieu-Leger (Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, Paris) at Boston University in the Institute on Culture, Religion and World Affairs (CURA) which was founded (in 1985) by that arch-dhimmi, that supreme apologist for moslems and islam everywhere, Peter L. Berger.
CURA, you may know, received a grant of $2.5 million from the Pew Foundation in order to continue its work in the same year that that foundation refused a grant to Columbia (N.Y.) and Cambridge (U.K.) Universities (jointly) to explore the implications of jihadist verses in mohammedan texts and develop realtime models for repulsing such theology.
This is also the person (Prof. Grace Davie) who put her name to the study entitled Secularity as a European and International Phenomenon, (which was also directed by Daniele Hervieu-Leger) and posed the question: Why is Europe the most secularised continent?
Talk about a leading question, why don't you? The pair of them, and all their researchers, simply refused to accept any evidence from any Christians in Europe what-so-ever. They had decided that Europe was/is secular and they quite simply refused to listen to anyone who said different.
Actually, it was much worse than that. They refused to accept any evidence what-so-ever from anyone who felt that there was evidence of religious activity in Europe - they refused to listen to not only Christians but all other faiths including, but not limited to, moslems but their conclusion was that only moslems had any religious life in Europe! On one spectacular occassion they walked out of a conference at which it was becoming increasingly obvious that Lamaistic Buddhism (of the Tibetan persuasion) was playing an increasingly important role in the spiritual life of the European peoples, and, in leaving, both Daniele Hervieu-Leger and Grace Davie were overheard to be saying that the entire conference had obviously been hijacked by the rabid religious minority of Europeans and that they could safely ignore it!
There is not, and I will repeat that, there is not, any academic rigour, excellence, understanding, intuition, learning or knowledge in any position adopted by the so-called Professor, Grace Davie. No credence should be given to anything which she says nor should any of her works, nor those of Daniele Hervieu-Leger, be assigned any value what-so-ever. They are light-weight and mistaken dhimmis at best, at worst they are traitorous scum who deliberately set out to mislead our young and are interested in only one thing - tenure.
Dominic.
By-the-way, in case you all think that I am, in some sense, jealous, then let me tell you that I already have tenure. As of three months ago the Senate of my University gave me my tenure by appointing me to the post which I currently hold. Granted, I am still exceedingly junior and I have to work in the private sector as well in order to make ends meet - but, damnit, I have tenure and I can speak my mind on any subject which comes within my purview - including mohammedanism.
And that is why we have the tenure system - not to massage the egos of sub-standard academics like Grace Davie and Daniele Hervieu-Leger but to allow people like me to speak out!
Dominic.
This from the Houston Chronicle -
Feb. 16, 2007, 10:12PM
7 terror suspects get life terms in Turkey
By BENJAMIN HARVEY
Associated Press
ISTANBUL, TURKEY — A Turkish court on Friday sentenced seven suspected al-Qaida militants to life in prison for a pair of 2003 suicide bombings in Istanbul that killed 58 people — attacks prosecutors said were ordered by Osama bin Laden.
The defendants, including Syrian Loa'i Mohammad Haj Bakr al-Saqa, were among 74 suspects standing trial in the attacks, which targeted two synagogues, the British Consulate and a London-based bank.
The court acquitted 26 of the defendants, while sentencing the rest to prison terms ranging from three years and nine months to 18 years.
Al-Saqa, who was charged with masterminding the bombings, called on holy warriors to keep up their fight, declaring during final arguments Friday that "Victory is very near!"
"Hey my hero brothers! Do not worry for me. Victory is very near!" he said in a brief statement to court. "Beware, beware, don't give up for any reason!" he said, and also recited verses from the Quran.
Prosecutors said bin Laden personally ordered al-Saqa to organize the plot, even though some suspects have testified that al-Qaida was unhappy that the group abandoned an initial plan to attack a base used by the U.S. Air Force, and instead went after targets that involved killing Muslims.
The court also handed life sentences to Harun Ilhan, who has taken responsibility for the bombings, Fevzi Yitiz, who helped build the truck bombs, and Yusuf Polat, who gave the final go-ahead for the synagogue attacks, as well as other leading defendants Baki Yigit, Osman Eken and Adnan Ersoz.
Ersoz had admitted receiving weapons training in Afghanistan and fighting with Islamic militants in Chechnya.
British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett welcomed the convictions.
"These were abhorrent acts, two of which specifically targeted British interests," she said. "My thoughts at this difficult time are with those who lost relatives and friends, and those who were injured in these abominable acts of terrorism."
In closing arguments, Ilhan criticized Turkey's secular system and expressed hope for establishment of an Islamic state.
"We know that one day this regime will crumble and an Islamic regime will be established," he said.
I have just been told that when one clicks on the link which I gave above one does not always get the picture of the mosk in occupied Constantinople - which was my point.
That does not matter. The fact that these academically challenged people see the need to hide the fact that they have a partner institution in occupied Constantinople by hiding a townscape photograph of their moslem biases amongst other harmless images (how easy and tricky of them: trying to lull you into a false sense of security using the lies of comfortable imagery) - that they trade with the enemy - copiously proves my point.
I do not need to say more about the sympathies, the pathologies, of Professor Davie, Daniele Hervieu-Leger, CURA and the Centre for European Studies at Exeter university (the lower-case 'u' is deliberate), do I?
Dominic.
I think we have to focus a lot further than just Christianity.
If this is the main spearhead we stand to lose too many other vaulable allies.
There are many good people out there who are agnostics and atheists, and of course there are Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs and others.
The left which is so often pro-islam, has also got to be roped in. They have to be made aware that their liberty and values are also at risk.
We should concentrate on finding common threads in all these (and more) groups.
The concept of freedom is a good place to start.
Human Rights is another.
If you look at sharia law just pick a concept and promote the opposite. We can get a list of criteria that has commonalities which unite us against the biggest threat that Western and indeed Eastern civilizations have ever faced.
I know it is a bit "pie in the sky", but I don't think we can afford to lose the support of anyone.
The world needs all the help it can get.
Write to your politicians and make threats if they are not looking after your safety.(I do this whenever some issue arises.)
We have the right to live the life our ancestors created and many died for. In fact it is our duty to preserve genuine civilization as we know it.
(yeah,,,I know,,in my dreams, but we can/must live in hope).
Atheists, like the ones posting here, really need to focus on the common enemy. Our common enemy is a far greater threat to atheists and their future than the whole of religion. Put your efforts where it matters: on the true enemy.
Dominic thanks for the wealth of information. Keep up the good work and here’s hoping success for ya.
CNN's Christiane Amanpour is a Muslim! Boy have I been fooled.
"CNN's Christiane Amanpour is a Muslim! Boy have I been fooled.
Posted by: ofcourse "
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!
No surprise I guess, other than the name.
I try to avoid CNN wherever possible - and now another reason!
No "fair and balanced" news from her.
Europe has done this to itself. It abandoned its ancient Christian religion, its sense of manifest destiny in the world, and its belief in itself. It now believes in nothing and is simply sitting around waiting to die, its inhabitants interested only in pleasuring themselves as much as they can before the end. It has only itself to blame. My advice to Europeans at this point is if whatever remains of your civilization falls to the muslims, please don't come here to America. You wouldn't like it here. You wouldn't agree with our strong Judeo-Christian beliefs, our sense of America's great destiny, our fierce independence and freedom, our gun rights, and our belief in human honor and dignity. More to the point, we wouldn't want you here. You would only instinctively try to pull our civilization down to what yours is now and that we would never accept or allow.
Dominic
Interesting and enlightening stuff!
You sound like a man for our times..keep up the good work!
I know personally how eurocrats and marxist academia has conspired against the free world in order to further there narrow agenda.
It would be good to chat sometime but it's difficult to exchange details.
regards
Reading many of the venomous anti-religious posts on this thread, most notably the anti-Christian ones which tend to get the blunt of atheist scorn, I will post this again...
Europe so far has done a stellar job scrubbing itself clean of the religion that made its existence possible -- Christianity -- all the while failing to realize that not all religions are created equal. This is not a struggle between secular Europe and "religion" but between a Europe drained of its cultural life-blood and Islam.
All of you who express such zeal for banishing Christianity from public life still don't get it. Europe has all but done this and is experiencing the natural response to its secular policies…
Many of the "enlightened" secular elite continue to encourage the growth of islam. Even without any public admission of this, they wrongly see it as a way of defeating Christianity... Eventually it will be Christianity that ultimately defeats islam, not secular nothingness...
The problem as many of you see it is with "religion". Sorry to break this to you, but it's not going anywhere... You can either live among Christians or muslims, but you will never live in a faithless society....
Keep attacking Christianity. Europe is experiencing the “fruits” of that labor, islam....
ovinesongs/
I have a 'hotmail' account separate from my normal and everyday life. So, you can safely email me at necessitasnonhabetlegem@hotmail.co.uk
Cheers.
Dominic.
adobe you said....Incredible insight.... Please, secular folks, take heart....to a remark that someone else said which was......Europe so far has done a stellar job scrubbing itself clean of the religion that made its existence possible --
I would go further and say that Europe tried and is trying to scrub itself clean of religion so as it could/can bring in the expansion of communism... (As Gobachev said to the Readers Digest a few years ago, 'Communism is not dead as some in the west would say, all we have done is change our tactics". )
But in doing so all Europe has done is cause a vacuum which because people need something to believe in has given Islam the chance to leap in to fill. People want something to believe in, to give them a guide line, to give them boundaries that they can try to push against, and to give them hope. Some people even use evolution to try to fill that hole.
Since Europe has scrubbed out religion, (other than Islam) crime, alcoholism, suicides, violence etc are at all time highs, I wonder why... oh well Islam will put a stop to their crime.. in fact Islam will put a stop to the lives of many thousands of people and Communism will be no more. One good thing about Islam is that the take over of Islam will totally eradicate Communism world wide and even the Communists are tooo stupid to see it.....
PMK, innocent to a Muslim is only one of their own, and even then it has to be the same branch of their own, unless it is for the purpose of being against us...
The infidel, Christians, and Jews are not counted as innocent..
Thus....
Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
They try to tell us that we read it wrongly,, I cant for the life of me see how we can read verses like these wrongly especially when there are ever so many others the like these..
There are some verses there which we do take wrongly, but many are straight out slaughter all who will not submit to Allah..
It never ceases to amaze me to see the disdain some Europeans have for Christianity. To hear them speak, it's very evident they've never stepped into a church with an open heart or mind. Since becoming a Christian, I've come to see myself as a much smaller being, a much more humble being, and a much happier being. And to walk and sit in a place like Durham, Beverley Minster, or York, it completely escapes me from where this animosity arises.
I've read history. I see what has happened in the past. But I also see the greatest civilizations in the world have one belief system in common. I see slavery first eradicated in the name of one belief system. I see the rights of man delineated in one belief system. I see a land where the laws allow instances of going and sinning no more.
Europe's Christian past has been its bulwark. It's denial of this past will be its undoing. The declining birth rates. Its inability to condemn the actions of Jihadists publically, with clarity, and with conviction stem directly from the lack of moral clarity one finds in Christianity.
Of course, one can't accept Christianity solely as a means of political stability. Faith runs far deeper. Yet I think that a reflection upon what has filled the void of that departed faith is reason to pause. It certainly is a far more hollow, flimsy construct.