"Muslims cannot fight under the banner of kuffar or with them; Muslims must avoid attaching themselves to nation states; Muslims must avoid harming and fighting other Muslims."
"Websites denounce British Muslim soldiers," by Duncan Gardham in the Telegraph, with thanks to Ruth King:
The question of British Muslims joining the Army, said to have been a key issue behind the suspected Birmingham beheading plot, has been buzzing around the internet....On another site, Mahmud Abdul Baari, a follower of the exiled preacher Omar Bakri Mohammed, called Hashmi a terrorist, adding: "Although born Muslim [he] grew up to become an apostate traitor to Islam and professional terrorist who unlike members of al-Qa'eda took a salary."...
A fatwa [religious ruling] by a man calling himself Afdal al-Jihad and posted on a mainstream web community is titled "Muslims serving in an Army of Kuffar" [non-believers]. Al-Jihad says: "Muslims cannot fight under the banner of kuffar or with them; Muslims must avoid attaching themselves to nation states; Muslims must avoid harming and fighting other Muslims."
On a web forum called the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, not all the visitors agreed that it was un-Islamic to join the Army. But many said swearing allegiance to the Queen was against Islam.
The Muslims are losing and they are begining to squirm....
....They will be suffering defeat after defeat soon,....
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the previous poster: the Muslims are winning.
Terrorism is the lesser weapon in this campaign from the Arab Muslim world. The madrassas are springing up all over the world. The hate is fresh and bold. The lies are constant, the propaganda groups sprouting up like so many weeds.
There are more Muslims than ever in Western nations and the influx is increasing. How is that a victory for anything other than Islam?
But many said swearing allegiance to the Queen was against Islam......or the United States of America....Koran Muslims swear allegiance to Allah only.
Muslims are in the only "religion" that preys upon everyone, including itself. I hope they're proud of that fact.
How is okay if they fight each other in Palestine or fight each other in Iraq?
Oh I forgot, they wouldn't be fighting each other if it wasn't for Israel and the US in Iraq...
I'll never understand how there is no outrage from these same people when someone blows themself up in a outdoor market in Iraq, killing 60 or so people, yet they are outraged at the idea of a muslim joining the armed forces...
You hear more anger at cartoons or muslims joining the police than you do from acts of outright mass murder.
Moose
For once I have to agree.
No muslims should be allowed to serve in the armed forces or the police at all.
Isn't living in a free world ""unislamic"" too?
Kick them out.
The above comment from poster DebV took the words right out of my mouth! Yes, male Muslims are slaughtering each other on the streets of Baghdad! How "unIslamic!" I think Muslims have got to be the biggest hypocrites on the planet.
Several points:
1. The fact that some Muslims say it is alright to "join the army" should not be a source of Infidel satisfaction, but worry. "Joining the army" in order to find out about how the enemy (that is, the Infidels whose Infidel army it is) operates, or to learn certain skills that be applied against Infidels, or even to commit acts of sabotage and betrayal while in the army, might be the motivation.
We have every evidence of this, from the American Muslim soldier who threw a grenade into a tent of sleeping American soldiers, killing two; the Marine who slipped away, apparently to Lebanon (but who knows exactly what he was doing, or what information he gave out, or secrets he betrayed?), was caught, in America gave a press conference in which he declared his complete innocence, ending "Semper Fi" (quite a performance it was, like so many Muslim performances), just before somehow eluding capture and making it out of the country, presumably back to Dar al-Islam, and still the American government has been unable to locate him or bring him back, or perhaps isn't really trying. There are other stories, less-publicized, of a Muslim sailor, on a ship in the Persian Gulf, through an intercepted communication offering to reveal secrets about the ship to make it more vulnerable.
Then there is the evidence of a lack of patriotism of an identifiable group that, one would think, under all the circumstances, would be moving heaven and earth to prove itself, and has done nothing of the kind. A few years ago, while happening to be at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, I visited its military museum, and on the desk at the entrance there are bound volumes of World-War-Two era copies of "Stars and Stripes." I opened one volume at random and read all about the unit we all know about --the 442nd Regiment, the one in which Senator Inouye served, during World War II, and about its exploits. The contrast struck me then, and has struck me since: where are the Muslims clamoring in the United States, in Western Europe, to prove themselves? If, despite the constant efforts to recruit, the British government can only come up with 330 Muslims out of 180,000 people in the armed forces, that is approximately 1/500th of the force, while Muslims make up 1/30th of the population, then this tells us something.
But it shouldn't surprise us. Islam teaches that loyalty is owed only to Islam and to fellow Believers. The danger is twofold, for Infidels. One is the absence of any feeling of loyalty to the Infidel nation-state, and a belief that the land on which Muslims live by right, by Allah's divine right, belongs in the end to them, and the Infidels are merely temporary in charge, sojourners who have no permanent right to any part of the world, which belongs to Allah and therefore to the best of people. The refusal to take Muslim ideology serious, the refusal to study it in depth and to accept the most transparent and flimsy of apologetic versions, whether offered by Muslims or by the non-Muslim apologists who are all about us. The Muslim apologists are full-time practitioners of every kind of evasion and lies and half-lies and half-truths, of taqiyya and tu-quoque, and we can see examples of this every day, on talk shows, and in the press, all over the Infidel lands. It takes a while, it takes experience and practice, to detect and then to be able to see through, and then to be able to piercingly reveal and at the same time answer, such a fog and pettifog of nonsense and semi-nonsense.
Why is there so much of it? Many reasons. Some do it it out of some blend of leftist hatred of The System, of the West, of the White West, of Amerika, of Kapitalism, and find that Islam is now the vehicle of choice to express resentment. Some, like Karen Armstrong, resentful of Christianity, and suffering long-term mental desarroi and of course from terminal stupidity, find not the reality of Islam -- she hasn't a clue about the reaality of Islam --soothing. Many are apologists out of cupidity (so many are on the Arab take, so many academics are supported directly or indirectly by Arab money for their "centers" and their "chairs" and so many want to ensure that they do nothing to antagonize their Muslim colleagues, who are eternally vigilant in monitoriing their work, and can cause them all kinds of touble. And others are ignorant, wilfully or lazily ignorant, and do not want to think for themselvfes, do not want to connect the dots of observable Muslim behavior by abadoning their false model, their Ptolemaic model of a "few extremists" for the true, Copernican theory that can both explain all the data, in Bangladesh, Sudan, Nigeria, Thailand, and also Paris, London, Amsterdam, and Beslan, and have predictive value: can predict, for example, what would happen, necessarily, in Iraq, and what will happen, necesarily, in Iraq if the Americans withdraw (hint: it won't be good for the Camp of Islam, and will give America that "victory" about which Bush and Cheney prate without ever understanding, or recognizing, in what such a true "victory" for the West would consist -- nor do any of their critics).
Muslims and Western Armed Forces: what a paradox. What do we want? We know Muslims are taught not to offer any loyalty to the legal and political institutions of the Infidel nation-state. Don't expect it. Don't squander resources trying to make Muslims forget, or never know, what Islam is all about because it will not work. They will find out. The Infidel states -- England, France (Sarkozy is disastrously intent on "affirmative action" for Muslims in the organs of the state --he is not nearly well-versed enough in Islam, even if he appears, by optical illusion, to be sufficiently comprehending of the matter, and appropriately sober in his supposed "hard line" that is not nearly hard enough) -- have to give up pious hopes for "integration" that rely on a shared game of Let's Pretend: Let's Pretend that Islam does not inculcate what Islam inculcates. Let's Pretend that Islam is not Islma.
The numbers of Muslims in the British Armed Forces are telling. They tell us what, if we knew about Islam, would come as no surprise.
But what if the British govenment manages to increase the number of Muslims in the army, and the police, say five-fold or ten-fold or twenty-fold? Would that be good? Would that be considered a "success"? Not if one understoood Islam. Not if one understood the reasons why people were joining up at this point -- not out of a sudden loyalty (the time for that was five, four, three, two years ago) but out of something which those with long experience of the problem (J. B. Kelly, for example, to me just a week ag0), have worried about: the slow and steady infiltration into the army, security services, and police, all over Europe, of Muslims intent on what, by their Total System, they should be intent on.
Worry, every which way.
Islamic websites denounce British Muslim soldiers: joining the Army is "un-Islamic."
Well I agree wholeheartedly with this. And I'll go these Moslem activists one better by way of obversion:
Infidel forces letting a Moslem join their Armies is anti-freedom.
US General Abizaid and that Paki Admiral running the British Navy out of Portsmouth give me the willies. Deep down, they're all Sgt. Asan Akbars at heart...
A fatwa [religious ruling] by a man calling himself Afdal al-Jihad >>>>>
"Muslims cannot fight under the banner of kuffar or with them; Muslims must avoid attaching themselves to nation states; Muslims must avoid harming and fighting other Muslims."
Oh dear someone forgot to tell the sunnis and
shi`ites !
I think Hugh’s analysis is right. I might add that since “"Muslims cannot fight under the banner of kuffar or with them; Muslims must avoid attaching themselves to nation states; Muslims must avoid harming and fighting other Muslims" is correct from the Islamic point of view, does this not make it clear that Muslim immigration to the West must be avoided like the plague? Does the West want immigrants whose young men cannot -per their religion - be trusted to serve patriotically in the arm services, especially against Muslim enemies? Stop this Muslim immigration madness!
l dont see a huge amount of muslims joining the army, but a few well placed ones in any Western army is as dangerous.
Since I learned the Arabic words "taqiyya" and "kitman" and their meanings I have never believed another word from a Muslim's mouth and never will.
I read somewhere that the primary Muslim virtue is Patience. They are waiting and reproducing, waiting and reproducing. The Muslim slave-girls/women are merely reproducing machines from which they "manufacture men." As Mohammed said.
Per FM's comment "Stop this Muslim immigration madness!" I have thought that for a long time. Have you read Oriana Fallaci's books? The Italian Muslim immigration is a nightmare.
not even a small word about that Muslim who died in Afghanistan Hugh?
Unbelievably and sadly, the Muslim soldiers are despised and seen as traitors by both the JW crowd AND the extremist muslims.
Hey,
and no mention of that muslim in the US Army that fragged his own guys prior to the start of Iraq II. Or that muslim US marine who deserted in Iraq and is hiding in Lebanon. march on muslim soldiers.
... another traitor is Corporal Daniel James aka Esmail Gamasai, whose eligibility for a British passport is questionable:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=424260&in_page_id=1770
Assalamaua alaikum all,
I can see that things are hard.
Each day brings fresh revelations on a different aspects of Kaffur life with respect to Islam. Yesterday it may have been bankiing, today it is armed forces and tomorrow for example ...it might be buthering (halal vs non halal).
Each time some set of lunds come forward to say it is unislamic to do this that and/or the other. They only say this because they do not feel that they belong...and that's the problem.
Kaffur need to realise that there are many many muslims in the UK and Europe. Rather then attempt to chuck them out (and in many cases you cannot due to citizenship) the trick is to find a way to get them to retract this statement...i.e. follow a strategy to show them that they DO belong.
Once this is licked things will be easier...I promise you...I am a muslima ...you can trust me ...no taqquia...I only use dawa.
One of the most fundamental things that can be done to this end is incorporating the colour green to the flag of the said country.
For example the Union Jack could change the white portion of it ....to green....so it will be blue, red and green.
Now....please believe me that the colour green is like an electric current to muslims...it wakes them up and they READILY give allegience to flags with the colour green.
Just IMAGINE (for those kaffur that can) how this will AID integration ...and build up the sense of BELONGING. I mean so safe and imaginative is this strategy that the Kaffur should PAY me for this type of advice.
that post made me see RED.
"Just IMAGINE (for those kaffur that can) how this will AID integration ...and build up the sense of BELONGING. I mean so safe and imaginative is this strategy that the Kaffur should PAY me for this type of advice."
Posted by: Naseem at February 2, 2007 10:43 AM
Naseem,
Today it is help them to integrate. Yesterday it was give in to Islam's superior morality and inevitable dominance.
You are a terrible liar, and contradict yourself far too often. Your profession that you only "use" Dawa is just another tiqyya-ridden lie out of your insipid mouth.
"not even a small word about that Muslim who died in Afghanistan Hugh?
Unbelievably and sadly, the Muslim soldiers are despised and seen as traitors by both the JW crowd AND the extremist muslims."
-- from a posting above
Don't be idiotic. I was listing problems, including the known traitorous behavior (including desertion, and the murder of sleeping fellow soldiers), with Muslism in the American army. Furthermore, it is absurd to think that I must simultaneously list any example of any Muslim soldier either who served, or who died, in Iraq and Afghanistan. The soldier you mentionj is Jabron Hashmi, who was killed by the Taliban, and he has received a huge amount of media attention in Great Britain, as you know perfectly well. Indeed his brother Zeeshan Hashmi, who also served in the army, was interviewed at length yesterday on the BBC. By the way, outside of his family, how many Muslims supported him -- really supported him? Here's a comment from some fellow Muslims:
"In Birmingham, near the Hashmi family's home in Bordesley Green, some young Muslim men also spoke out.
'I don't see how any Muslim can be in the British army, not with all the shit that's happening in Muslim countries. It doesn't make sense. It's not right. There's no space for Muslims in the army,' said a 25-year-old who would only give his name as Saleem. 'Of course it's a tragedy and I feel for them [his family]. But what was he doing over there? He was an Asian dude fighting a white man's war. Basically, we can't be like the goreh [white people] and they can't be like us.'"
One must draw conclusions, and make policy, not on the basis of one or two or even ten or a hundred exceptions, but on the basis of the the clear doctrines of Islam, and of the observable behavior and atittudes, express and implied, of Muslims.
And this is what is now, at long last, being done by thinking people all over the Infidel West. They are beginning to observe. They are beginning to read, with understanding, not only the Qur'an, but the Qur'an with the doctrine of naskh in mind, and not only the Qur'an with the doctrine of naksh kept firmly in mind, but with the realization that in English and French the Qur'an is far more mild than it is in the Arabic version -- and some have begun to study that matter. And they have not limited themselves to the Qur'an, but just like Muslims, have begun to understand the significcance of Muhammad, as the Guid to Conduct, uswa hasana, as the Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil, and are less gullible, less ready to swallow the nonsense peddled by apologists for Islam, the assorted armstrongs, espositios, sellses, ernsts, and all the rest.
One cannot simultaneously make the texts of Islam -- Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira -- available to Muslims world-wide, and not expect the Infidels to listen in, to read over the shoulder of Muslims. One cannot permanently prevent Infidels from finding out about Islam. It can't be done.
Not everyone will remain as wilfully misunderstanding of Islam as, at least in the first year or two after the 9/11/2001 attacks,Bush and Balir did and, judging by their wishing to remain in Iraq, still do.
Others, many others, have come to their senses. And many more will be forced to do so.
Your comment is ludicrous.
Note that 'goreh' (actually 'gora') is the Urdu/Hindi equivalent of 'Ni_ger: just as Whites at one time (and Black gangstas today) called Blacks the latter epithet, the former is an epithet in Urdu/Hindi reserved for Whites. For anybody who thought that Pakis (and for that matter Indians) can't be racist, think again. (This term also made its ugly appearances in the movie 'Bend it with Beckham')
"Firang" is another word these supremist Pakis use, I think. Anything to not be like the "Angrezi".
The Hadiths are recorded sayings and doings recorded of the prophet Mohammed. They are accepted almost as highly as the Quran by most Muslims, the longest and most highly regarded Hadith was collected by Al-Bukhari.
"He [the Prophet] uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet."Bukhari vol.1:367 (p.224)
"Whenever the Prophet used to offer prayer he used to keep his arms away (from his body) so that the whiteness of his armpits was visible." Bukhari vol.1:771, (p.430). Bukhari vol.2:140, 141 (p.77,78) are both similar. See also Bukhari vol.1:63 and vol.2:122.
Apparently Muslima Naseem thinks we want Muslims "to belong!" Where did you get that idiotic idea? Stay in your own countries, Muslims! Oh, and there will NEVER be any green in the American flag! What, are you joking?
We don't want you Barbarians to "integrate" - we want you OUT.
Oh it is such a joke. Muslims have been slaughtering each other for centuries! Word of Advice: Never believe anything a Muslim says. They are a bunch of pious lying hypocrites. Especially to the Kaffir (us).
"Muslims cannot fight under the banner of kuffar or with them; Muslims must avoid attaching themselves to nation states;
If Muslims cannot attach themselves to nation states then they should not be allowed to ENTER nation states.
What will it take for our leaders to see the truth?
If this fatwa is a minority opinion within dar-al-Islam then Muslims must be told to get rid of the people who espouse these beliefs and would impose them on otherwise "peaceful" Muslims. Until then all Muslims should be restricted to dar-al-Islam.
Muslims currently residing in dar-al-harb who agree with the fatwa writer need to be evicted from dar-al-harb. Then it will finally become dar-al-FREEDOM.
"Firang" is another word these supremist Pakis use, I think. Anything to not be like the "Angrezi".
The word Firang (with many variant spellings) is a lingua franca (pun intended) term all over the Muslim world, from Morocco to the Philippines, and derives originally from the word Frank -- from the Muslim perspective the Ur-Europeans, the original "White" Enemy Infidels who gave Muslims a sound licking when they thought they could keep going past the Loire River into the heart of Europe.
Naseem,
As a native born Scotsman, I find your idea of changing the color of the Union Jack as heresy. Although I'm generally a peaceful person, for you a wee Glasgow kiss is well in order.
By the way, there is a book entitled, "How the Scots Invented the Modern World." I've yet to seen anything akin for a Muslim nation. If there was, I'm sure it would be how country X reinvented the 7th century What is especially surprising is that a nation of today a bit over 5 million could do this. Why can't the Muslim world with over a billion do something similar? Are we Scots just so much superior? Actually, I'll say, are we Europeans just so much superior?
Schwaben
Pay no attention to the Muslima. She loves her black shroud with only the eyes visible.
How pathetic.
"He [the Prophet] uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the..."
Oh, how naughty!"
"Whenever the Prophet used to offer prayer he used to keep his arms away (from his body) so that the whiteness of his armpits was visible."
"Wow, did this bloke shave or what?"
------------------
", and there will NEVER be any green in the American flag! What, are you joking? "
Well, really, calm yourself. If there is any other design or color on the flag, it AUTOMATICALLY wouldn't be the U.S. flag, would it?
Look at Thailand:
More than 90 % of Thai's are Buddhists, about the same number is a-political. The army has a high numbers of Muhammedans from the south. Being Muslim, they are naturally more interested in warfare and because of their background they have poor employment prospects.
During his last overseas trip the elected prime-minister Thaksin Shinawatra staged a coup-D 'etat and putshed himself to power. He is surrounded with other Muhammedans who now not only allow, but officially introduce Islamic teachings in Thai schools. A classic example of subversion and a takeover of far reaching implications.
But you don't hear anything about it in the news.
Its all business as usual...http://sheikyermami.com/2007/01/27/thai-jihad-continues/
Muslims shoul d not be allowed in the armed forces or the police. Even if one declares himself an apostate, how can you believe him since taqiyya encourages him to lie to Infidels if it helps Islam?
Bush's PC Defense Department kid-glove kow-towing to the Muslims with on-post Mosques (at the Marine Quantico base yet), Islamic centers, halal food, the resort "prison" at Gitmo with all the ACLU/CAIR oversight - contrast that with FDR's WWII detention camps for enemy aliens and execution of enemy spies. FDR and his people knew how to win. Bush and his PC crowd are setting us up for major internal disruption with a network of Trojan Horses.
What Emporer Hirohito would not have given to have the 2007 US mosque (armory) network and 5-7 million Muslim sympathizers in his camp in 1941! We would all be speaking Japanese (or German).
Poor Hirohito only got 3000 to 5000 volunteers from the US Nisei and his saboteurs caused little damage after Pearl Harbor (Malkin, "In Defense of Internment"). We are not going to be so fortunate this time.