Jim Krane of AP (thanks to Mackie) makes an astonishing discovery:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Citing Iranian involvement with Iraqi militias and Tehran's nuclear ambitions, the Bush administration has shifted to offense in its confrontation with Iran - building up the U.S. military in the Persian Gulf and promising more aggressive moves against Iranian operatives in Iraq and Lebanon.The behind-the-scenes struggle between the two nations could explode into open warfare over a single misstep, analysts and U.S. military officials warn.
Iraq has become a proxy battleground between Washington and Tehran, which is challenging - at least rhetorically - America's dominance of the Gulf. That has worried even Iraq's U.S.-backed Shiite prime minister, who - in a reflection of Iraq's complexity - also has close ties to Iran.
It is incisive analysis like this that makes me glad we have the mainstream media.
I have a family member that is ex-military. He says we will be in Iran in 30 - 90 days.
A EMP over Tehran would do the trick. Send their technology back to the 1700's. Why haven't they done this? Could it be that Washington is catering to those who have financial investments in Iran?
I wouldn't be surprised, enough of all the provocations.
That explains Bush's move to send 21000 troops to Iraq.
Mahdi has to wait I guess
http://www.civoc.com/society/2007/02/01/waiting-for-the-mahdi/
If only we had withdrawn from iraq, iran and saudi arabia would have their hands full for the next couple of years arming the shiites and the sunnis of iraq. With a bit of luck, the conflict could have spread to syria, yemen, and would have brought in fighters from afghanistan even. These thugocracies would have diverted their resources to Mesopotamia, and we could have taken out a much more weakened iran sometime in the near future. Alas.
Ahmadinejad simply continues to be the antagonist. He wants war and war he may get... but no more of this "winning the hearts and minds" stuff.. bring back the glory days of massive bombing campaigns, destroy everything that is not natural to this earth...If it moves kill it...
If war with Iran happens, so be it. But this time, unlike Iraq, let there be no illusions and delusions about nation building. We always hear indications that the bulk of the Iranian people do not like their regime. Well, if war comes and that really is the case then the Iranians should be able to restore their country to civilization with only minimal outside help. That would be to the benefit of everyone-Iranians,Americans, the whole region in general.
If war with Iran happens, so be it. But this time, unlike Iraq, let there be no illusions and delusions about nation building. We always hear indications that the bulk of the Iranian people do not like their regime. Well, if war comes and that really is the case then the Iranians should be able to restore their country to civilization with only minimal outside help. That would be to the benefit of everyone-Iranians,Americans, the whole region in general.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at February 1, 2007 09:40 AM
Bingo!
Robert:
Your last sentence comment is priceless and I thank you for the early morning bellylaugh.
Notice everything is being written up to suggest the US is pushing for a war, the press will faithfully report to the enemy every move, every last detail of logisitics they can learn, to suggest when and where this will occur. That's what they have the French, Chinese and Russians for, they don't need the media contributing to their intelligence gathering service. If the Iranians were behind that raid the other day, the question would be what was worth gaining/learning that tactic and gear, that they hoped to gain? And when will our troops in hostile theatres be allowed concealed weapons carry of sidearms? If they are not holding a rifle they should have a gun at their side, even a little snub .38 on the ankle would be something.
I wouldn't be surprised, enough of all the provocations.
That explains Bush's move to send 21000 troops to Iraq.
Posted by: Arnie at February 1, 2007 09:16 AM
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@Arnie
Don't forget that extra carrier group that was deployed to the Gulf.
Howdy I-phobes:
I've had an epiphany! Support Shiites!
The answer to our present problem in Iraq is to pick sides. We have no choice. Trying to arbitrate between the sects of Izlam is doomed to failure.
We must pick sides!!!! I've been pondering this for months and I have settled on an answer.
Between the evil of Shiism and Sunnism, I'm crystal clear: I choose to support the Shiites!!!
Who sent suicide bombers on 9-11? Sunnis!
Who talks about killing infidel? Sunnis!
Who is using the Dawa of demographic conquest? Sunnis!
Who is leading the insurgency in Iraq? Sunnis!
Down with the Sunnis!!!!!!!!!
We must drive a wedge in dar-el-Izlam by siding with Shiites.
Hey, the Shiites are like us kaffirs. They're infidels and the Sunnis enjoy killing them almost as much as they enjoy killing Jews.
Think about it: The Shiites are the Jews of Islam. A persecuted, minority. We need to schmoozle Iran and try to convert the Persians to Christianity.
Shiites are far more tolerant and open to Christianity than Sunnis.
Let's practice dawa on the Iranians!
I would have preffered several more centuries of hatred and violence between Baghdad and Tehran, but alas that is not to be.
We must now go whole hog in supporting Shiism.
I'm absolutely serious.
Let the goddamned Sunnis lose in Iraq. Screw 'em!
Sorry to monopolize, but I have a rare moment to expound on this post.
WHO HATES US MORE, SUNNI OR SHIA?
Okay, I'm disgusted by Islam. I'm a total I-phobe. But you know what? The Iranians are a cultured and intelligent people.As screwed up and wacky as their leaders are, their culture is thousands of years more enlightened than Saudi Arabia! Islam is an Arab Supremecist creed imposed on the Middle East,including Persia. In Iran, women go to universities, become doctors. They have elections, even if they are controlled. In the last one, Imanutjob lost support.
The U.S.A. has got to stand up for Shiites. Weakening the camp of Islam begins by standing up against Saudi Jihadia.
============
Maybe the Iranians hate the U.S.A. Still, we have meddled and interferred in their politics for decades. One can far more understand Iran's anti-Americanism with its overtones of nationalism than the blanket hatred of infidels exhibited by Sunni Islam.
Let's side with the infidels of Islam. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Who really hates us the most: The Sunnis or the Shia?
Best solution would be, as someone already suggested, to pull out of iraq and let these brain dead muslims sunnis and shia finish each other.
let the oil rich saudis spend their money in the muslim war. why waste hard earned money of the american people.
Ynkedoodl2,
WHO HATES US MORE, SUNNI OR SHIA?
Unfortunately the answer is neither of those.
We have found the enemy and it is us.
The Goobs & others:
Iran is not stupid when it comes to the effects of EMT. We're not going to explode a nuke over Iran because (1) we would lose ALL support and pick up many more enemies, and (2) Iran has already hardened much sensitive material, just like we have.
We do not have sensitive financial interests in Iran.
However, Europe and Russia DO have financial interests there. Shell Oil and Repsol (the Spanish-Argentinian oil company) and the Austrian national oil and gas company have entered into agreements to build liquified natural gas facilities for export of LNG to Europe. Russia's Lukoil is still negotiating.
Shell's has just ben signed, and they may not enter into a binding construction deal until 2008, acording to Shell spokesman.
It is interesting to note that nuclear power is not cost effective when gas prices are less than about $8.00 per mmcf, and the price is currently less than that. However, Iran flares much of its gas as a waste product, so one could say that it's marginal cost is next to nothing. It would be more cost effective for them to build gas fired electric plants, instead of nuclear reactors, and avoid the cost and danger of LNG production. Nuclear plants are more expensive and take longer to build than gas fired plants.
Obviously, their nuclear program is not simply for peaceful energy production.
The entangling of Western Europe and Russia in a deal for "cheap" natural gas, will fund their expansionist plans, and keep their "partners" quiet.
If war with Iran happens, so be it. But this time, unlike Iraq, let there be no illusions and delusions about nation building. We always hear indications that the bulk of the Iranian people do not like their regime. Well, if war comes and that really is the case then the Iranians should be able to restore their country to civilization with only minimal outside help. That would be to the benefit of everyone-Iranians,Americans, the whole region in general.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at February 1, 2007 09:40 AM
If the bulk of Iranians do not like their regime then they are free to change it. They have three revolutions to look back on for guidance: their own in 1979 and the Russian and French revolutions. (The American revolution is omitted from the list because we don't want to be cultural imperialists.)
I don't believe they are "oppressed" in any meaningful way. They are Muslims and they are Persian and they like things the way they are. If they don't, then it is up to them to take their fate in their own hands.
If only a minute number of Iranians support this regime, then the "oppressed" should outnumber the "oppressors" by better than ten to one. Let them free themselves. We shouldn't set one foot inside that country. They don't deserve a drop of American blood to be shed on their behalf.
Sorry for typos. Gas price should read $8.00 per mcf not mmcf.
In his second inaugural President Bush said something to the effect that if you stand for your freedom then America will stand with you. Well, where are the Iranians who are standing for their freedom? The only ones I know of are living outside Iran and speaking from a place of safety. Those within Iran remain anonymous. Where are the residents of Tehran? Who among them is willing to risk his own life for the cause of freedom for Iran? Until one of them is willing to climb onto that metaphorical tank, we should just stay out.
Shia v. Sunni??
I think we should arm both sides and stand the hell outta the way.
Give a little extra to whoever is losing on a weekly basis.
If only a minute number of Iranians support this regime, then the "oppressed" should outnumber the "oppressors" by better than ten to one. Let them free themselves. We shouldn't set one foot inside that country. They don't deserve a drop of American blood to be shed on their behalf.
Posted by: PMK at February 1, 2007 12:55 PM
I agree. I favor an attack on Iran to neutralize its warmaking capability, not to liberate the Iranians. I would hope an attack would spur them on to hanging their criminal leaders and come up with a more responsible government. No more foolish experiments in nation building for the US.
Let us point the finger at Sunni discrimination of Shiism.
Let us point the finger at Sunni intolerance of Shiism.
Let us point the finger at Sunni slaughter.
Point the finger at the Orthodox Rabbis of Islam! Pharisees! Hypocrites! Bigots! Racists!
I don't feel real warm and cuddly about Iran, but sheesh, you can't compare I.Q.s between Persians and Arabs.
Islam is an Arab supremecist cult. It has been imposed on the Persians.
Let's start worrying about the Persians in Iran. Let's stir up some shit! Let's encourage them to hate the Sunnis. Don't we all hate the Sunnis the most of all.
C'mon on folks! Who's the real DADDY WARBUCKS?
Mister Sunni or Mister Shia. If you answered the former, you need to do more homework!
Maybe even jihad war!!!!!!!!
Imagine THAT!?!??!!??!!!?!
ps-Yankee Doodle2: The Persian people made the tragic mistake of permitting the evil Mighty Nut Job, Ahmadinejad, to take office. And for that they will be forced to pay.
The Persian people should have stopped Ahmadinejad from coming to power. And they didn't.
"I favor an attack on Iran to neutralize its warmaking capability, not to liberate the Iranians. I would hope an attack would spur them on to hanging their criminal leaders and come up with a more responsible government. No more foolish experiments in nation building for the US."
Islamsforlosers:
Attack anywhere within Iran and they won't seize the opportunity to liberate themselves. Instead they'll demonstrate even louder against the US.
Check out www.islamwatch.org
Amil Imani has an article titled "what to do about Iran", dated January 6. I recommend it to all. (He also has a later column asking whether the mullahs would use the bomb.) Whether we just attack their nuclear installations or mount a full-fledged invasion, it would only harm our cause.
According to Amani: "...Each and every one of these trigger-happy solutions is doomed to failure, since they will play directly into the hands of the Mullahs. Any military action against Iran will encounter Iranians' fierce sense of national pride that would rally the people to the support of the regime. Military actions would compound the problem by creating a greater worldwide Islamic solidarity against the perceived "Crusaders-Zionists" conspiracy."
He tries to paint this as a reason for us to work with the Iranian resistance movements to overthrow the regime from within, but I see it as yet another reason why we should leave the Iranian people alone. They've made their bed with the jihadists. If they want change then have to bring it about. They have no right to expect anything like a D-Day invasion of Normandy. After Iran-Contra, I wouldn't trust any Iranian "moderates" who approached us for help in getting rid of the regime. That's the problem with deception. No one will believe you even if you're telling the truth. If the mullahs attack anyone else, the Iranian people will suffer. (How does one attack a mullah?) It's their choice and the end result is their responsibility.
You mean my prophesy is finally coming true ? This means I'm a prophet ! Finally, we're gonna kick Iran's Ass ! Shift the 20,000 soldiers to Iran, you got my blessing !
THE need of the time is an USA-Europe-Israeli-Indian axis (or call it Christian-Jews-Hindu axis) to battle the cancer of Jihad becasue if not controlled now it will spread and spread and one day it may be too late.
In short all these religion dont hate each other, but Islam hates all these three religion and uniting is neccasry to fight the cancer
Chirac has been foiling the US attempts to take down iran, and also Putin. after iran is gone, they should serve arrest warrants for Chirac and Putin for treason against humanity.