Turkey to U.S.: abet us in denying our crimes -- or else

It really is unfortunate that such a genocide had to happen in an era before TV and filmed records-this has allowed Turkey to literally get away with murder for some 90 years now. Had the Holocaust not been so thoroughly documented on film it too would have hardly raised any questions and would boost the insane claims coming from Iran's supreme simian.

Below is a copy of my post earlier today on jihad watch. Please read the link attached as it is in line with this article.

"This act in the Democratic Party is nothing new. Bubba Clinton had KLA/UCK Chief terrorist Hasim Thaci attend the National Democratic Party meeting just after the Kosovo bombardment.

These acts will always continue and are not only symptoms of the Democratic Party. The current Republican Party is just as guilty as they have done nothing to reverse the situation in Kosovo.

Please read this link to see the double standards that will always exist when Turkey is involved with bullying Cyprus, Greece or any of her neighbors. When will people wake up and face the reality that this war is lost if we hold our support of Israel one way, but disregard potential friends of Christian countries in the near vicinity.

This war and these threats are not Israel's alone, and someone in a US administration has to wake up to this at some point. The behavior of the US in these matters is nothing short of traitorous to the common good of the western world, WAKE THE FUCK UP!"

http://www.hellenicnews.com/gr/readnews.html?newsid=6330〈=GR

Niv

I apologize as I should explain that link is not about the Armenian Genocide, but on the US lack of will to ever condemn Turkey for her continual aggressive behaviour. Turkey is the US' buddy and she can do whatever she wants at any cost, truly disgusting in light of the threats the world faces today.

Niv

You guys can bash me as much as you want for this, but REAL historical records show that this was NOT a genocide, instead it was a civil war in which both sides (Turks and Armenians) suffered massively (in the low 100,000's).

www.tallarmeniantale.com

Call me whatever you want (I don't really care), but I dare you to refute the info on that website.

There is an entire chapter devoted to the Armenian Holocaust in the book “The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East,” by Robert Fisk.
I know Hugh Fitzgerald questions his objectivity – so do I, in fact.
Fisk gives various sources but settles on a death toll between 600,000 - 1.5 million killed by the Turks.
Mostly civilians, in cold-blood, many women and children.
Killed in death marches, drownings, shootings etc.
Emphatically not a civil war.

One of the great flaws of this book is that Fisk never seems to question the ideology that lies behind Jihad.
Anyway the chapter on the Armenian Holocaust is highly recommended.

What was I thinking when I wrote "Mostly civilians?"
In fact, according to Robert Fisk the Armenians were all civilians.
A few were accused of spying for foreign powers during WW1.
Anyway, read it yourself and make your own mind up.

I have Robert Fisk's book and I'll bet you that when he dies you'll hear he converted to Islam. He makes some of the most ridiculous claims in his book that are straight from the jihadists propaganda handbooks.

Now for this other guy who claims that the Genocide never happened, quite simply you're full of shit it was quite simply murder and the Turks desperately hang on to the claims of civil war and those figures are sheer non sense.

Niv

there are many turkish losers like the one above desperately trying to wash their "image".

Give it up, you are despised everywhere, you are muslims to the core since you managed to exterminate all the few decent non-muslim people living in anatolia.

Here's some video links of activity inside British Mosque's. These need to be viewed and passed on to as many people as possible.

Warning there will be no surprises here for most readers, but the spoken words are nothing short of chilling.

Of course if you're a Turk occupying foreign soil and defiling sacred sites of others, this mentality obviously doesn't exist.

http://www.youtube.com/v/D6R6GBZs6z8.swf

http://www.youtube.com/v/IL2g5nltqks.swf

http://www.youtube.com/v/ktzVUkrrY1M.swf

Niv

...Muslims hate the truth....

WAT_123 hardly a compelling web site, very amateurish. Why don't you try finding some evidence written by actual scholars if you want to refute the claims. There's far too much evidence out there for your Turkish loving brethren to hide, but I know you liars will keep trying.

I'll place that bullshit site along with the holocaust never happened site, I'm sure you've got that bookmarked also.

Niv

I just read a letter from an Assyrian to the movie actor/director Sylvester Stallone. Evidently, he is making a movie about the Armenian Genocide. The Assyrian was asking him to include the story of the thousands of Assyrians slaughtered at the same time that the Turks were killing Armenians. I have read a little about the Assyians slaughtered by the Turks. The accounts of survivors are chilling. One detail I remember is the story of an American missionary by the name of Shedd, who was working with the Assyrians and eventually lost his life, along with his wife and daughter. The Assyrians consider him a hero. He is of the family that built the famous Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. I have never been a big Stallone fan, but if he makes this movie, I hope that he tells the truth. I wonder if he will get a call from Condi Rice, explaining to him how "ill-timed" a movie like his would be?

"U.S. officials have said they will try to block the resolution".

sad and depressing, but it was nice of State Dept spokesman Sean McCormick to "understand very clearly that this is a sensitive issue not only for the Turkish people but for the Armenian people". yes, Armenians have feelings too. maybe that is a step forward.
regarding www.tallarmeniantale.com, i find that site to be beneath contempt.

One of the most authoritative sources on the Armenian Holocaust is held to be the Byrce report commissioned by the British Government.

Part of it is available on-line here.

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1698

Also important sources on Armenian Holocaust

http://www.cilicia.com/armo10c-nr19171227.html

Also this really comprehensive site

http://preventgenocide.org/edu/pastgenocides/ottoman/resources/

In late 2006, the French National Assembly passed a law making it illegal to deny the existence of the Armenian Holocaust.

It is depressing to see that the American Congress seems to have less principle than the French in this matter.

Odyessus, excellent links not quite as detailed as WAT_123's link (Sorry I'm laughing out loud as I say that).

One very curious thing on the first link the letter from the German I believe it was. The exact same stupidity and complete wanting to accept Islam as a religion of Peace. Does that not astound you when reading that, when he says that the Muslim had no problem with the Christians and they did it because there government forced them to? He went on to say that many Muslim leaders were appalled by such an event and that Islam does not allow these things to happen.

We continually learn nothing from the past, this in itself is the most frightening part of the evidence before us.

Niv

I stand corrected it was the British government report.

Niv

Here's another link regarding Turkey with its attempt to enter the EU. Definitely worth a read.

http://www.hellenicnews.com/readnews.html?newsid=6111&lang=US

Niv

WAT_123,

Whether there were wome elements of a civil war is debatable.

Whether there was genocide is not debatable.

Anyway, they are not mutally exclusive.

Turkey’s Noble-Prize-winning author, Orhan Pamuk estimates that one million Armenians were killed in 1915-16.
He also estimates that 30,000 Kurds have been killed, mostly in the 1980’s and 90’s.
For this he was tried and acquitted for ”insulting Turkishness.”

I am reading one of his novels at the moment; he is probably a better novelist than that other “Moderate Muslim” Salman Rushdie who is simply a “stylist.”

To --- WAT_123

The facts show that Turkey was 20% Christian in 1900. After Ataturk got done with his genocide. there were very few Christians left. By 1960, Turkey was down to less than a half a percent Christian. I'm sure it was all just a big misunderstanding--you moron!

Turkey deserves to be treated like liars because that is what it is made up of. G-d help the EU if they accept such a nation. We need to stop treating Turkey as an ally--they are anything but.

this link has pictures and documents as proof that the armenian and greek and assyrian genocided did happen
http://www.greece.org/genocide/quotes/photos-armenians-assyrians1.html

For a novel about the Armenian genocide, may I recommend "The 40 days of Musa Dagh" by Franz Werfel.

It is about resistance to the forced movement to the Syrian desert. It had been made into a movie, but there was pressure, probably by the Turks to prevent it from getting widespread showing.

Alexandria used to have a big non-Eygptian population until they were ethnically cleansed – whoops! – relocated by Nasser, another case of human-rights abuses which doesn’t get the attention it deserves.

Incidentally, am I correct in thinking that Robert Spencer was born, or at least spent part of his life in Turkey?
I read he is from a Greek Catholic community there and chose to leave because of the discrimination they faced.
At one time he was told he had to convert to Islam or lose his property?

Would Mr Spencer care to enlighten us?

A recent posting at this site made clear that there are still laws in Turkey which allow institutionalised discrimination against non-Muslims in terms of the property they own.

What a backward country. Totally unfit for EU membership.

Incidentally, if you read a writer like Orhan Pamuk, it is clear that one of the drivers behind modernisation in Turkey is the hope of becoming a Westernised nation, including perks like EU membership.
Which is why it is wise to keep dangling this carrot in front of their eyes.

But there will have to be a cultural revolution in Turkey before she/he can join.
The Pope said he supported Turkey’s entry into the EU “on the basis of common values and principles.”
One of which, I would think, he intended to be inferred as Christianity.

No genode took place as it didnot meet the legal standard and definse of the word at that time. The Allied want to put the Sultan on trail for Genode than they where going thought all the officate record but found no order to murder these people. The order was to remove these non-combat from the war zone and resettle then elsowhere. In fact there where order to end the murder of these people as the armies went out of control to bring back under control again which the Sultan did the one who issue order to murder these people where punich under Islamist law by being beheaded.. During the warcrime trail after WWII the Allied have copy of the order Hilter issue to murber the Jew along with the ten orginate one sign by Hilter. To be genodi it must be order to murder all people of one religion, racical, enthic group order by than high ranking government offical to do so.

In the not to distant future, Turkey will revert to its old islamic ways. The islamists are in charge of the country already, soon it will infiltrate into the military.

My copy of Robert Fisk’s book has well-illustrated map of the places where Armenians where massacred.
Some of the places are hundreds of miles from Gallipoli and other well known theatres of conflict during WW1.
This does rather discredit statements like

“The order was to remove these non-combat from the war zone and resettle then elsowhere.”

Mmmm?

"Robert Fisk’s book..."
-- from a posting above

Throw out that book. If you want to learn about anything, stay away from Robert Fisk. Even when he accidentally tells a small truth about something, he's lying.

If you want to find out about the mass-murder of Armenians from 1915 on, read Vahakn Dadrian's work. Or, for a mass audience, Peter Balakian. If you want to find out about the 1894-96 massacres, the eyewitness testimony of American missionaries and diplomats and others was collected at the time, and while I have forgotten the title, I do recall mentioning it here at JW several times, and artful googling should bring that title up.

Hugh has forgotten something?

ARRRGH My world is meltingggggggggggggg

This approach of using blackmail to whitewash genocide is becoming common practice – consider the recent Pakistani threats to the UK on hiding their “role” in the Kashmir genocide…

From http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20070130&fname=seema&sid=1

“Interestingly, Musharraf does his most creative peace-making on television, not in meeting rooms where deals are actually made and signed. …in reality the general presides over the same old think on Kashmir that his military predecessors devised in the early years.

Those in doubt may visit Brussels where Pakistan is engaged in an all-out war over its claim on Kashmir – all because of a 10-page report, which negates every myth Pakistan has painstakingly created about Kashmir over the decades…Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz is coming all the way to testify in front of an EU committee….Not surprisingly Islamabad has vowed to kill the report by whatever means necessary. The European Parliament will vote by February-end and until then battles will be waged for every word and every comma.

Brussels will remain a hub of Pakistani lobbyists and ISI operatives. Already pro-Pakistan MEPs such as UK’s Sajjad Karim have flooded the committee with amendments – a high 61 by him alone. A whopping 450 amendments, said to be the highest ever on any foreign policy report, are on the table, essentially watering down the report and if adopted would render it meaningless mash. The ISI fingerprints seem to be all over this campaign. According to an article in Pakistan Observer, the ISI is masterminding the entire amendment campaign, helpfully providing both language to willing MEPs and funds to Kashmiri front organizations”

So, what’s all this hoopla about?

“The report was prepared by Baroness Emma Nicholson, a British member of European Parliament or MEP, after visits to both sides of the border last year. The baroness has dared to go beyond the usually accepted storyline of how India is mostly to blame for the status quo while Pakistan cares about the plight of the Kashmiri people. She declared calls for a plebiscite "out of step with the needs of the local people" besides issuing a strong indictment of Pakistani society as undemocratic, which respects neither women nor gays and where literacy and healthcare are distant goals.

The baroness is the first western official to do away with the pretence that Musharraf is a democrat disguised as a dictator. Her sharp assessment is a welcome change from the usual tiresome western analysis, which seems almost afraid to deviate from the established pro-Pakistan narrative. The report is the first blunt assessment of the Kashmir situation – India can’t demilitarize unless terrorism stops. And it is not that Nicholson takes India’s view – she criticizes Indian army for human rights violations and points out other problems. It is just that she is refreshingly honest about Pakistan. Given the grim situation in Pakistan’s border areas, the rebirth of Taliban in Quetta and the attacks inside Afghanistan, it is time to move away from the fiction that Musharraf is doing his bit. The report does just that”
Apparently, dear Ms.Nicholson has dared to tell us the truth about the Pakistanis. How awful? How dare the Brits do this?"

So, out come the threats…

“The heat from Pakistan is so high that a Hungarian MEP complained openly in the session I attended about the "pressure" from Pakistani groups to vote for the amendments. …Labor MPs and MEPs have decided that killing the Kashmir report could be a way to win back Muslim voters in Britian who have deserted Labour for the Liberal Democrats in large numbers. Baroness Nicholson is a Lib Dem and Labour MEPs have turned so vicious that they have asked her to be "removed" from her position.

Pakistani operatives are sending a clear message in Britain – either you are with us or against us on Kashmir. A vote in Brussels could cost you in the next election in UK is the open threat”

So, apparently the Pakistanis feel they can control voting in the UK – the threat is clear – if this can happen in the UK – then why not elsewhere?

why is the USA scared of turkeyS ??
and afraid to confirm history ?

This is the exact type of American hypocrisy that turns so many people, both in Europe and the other countries around the world against the country.

Don't get me wrong, I consider myself a pro-American 'extremist' especially by Europe's standards, but am constantly puzzled by the idiots running the country, with their non-sensical foreign policies.

Whilst America likes to sit on a throne, with their state department reports etc. condemning human rights 'abuses' etc in one country and another, when it comes to serving their own interests, issues as important as genocide can just be swept under a carpet.

Take another example - Kosovo. America is pushing for the province's independence. I mean, let's be honest - what are Kosovo's main exports really going to be? I can only think of one - jihad. Yet America would rather support short term fixes, than long term solutions.

Again in 2004, America was pushing a plan that, in a nutshell legitimised Turkey's occupation of the northern third of Cyprus.

Instead of America supporting those with whom they have far more in common in terms of history, culture, religion, belief in freedom and democracy etc. they would rather serve their own short sighted interests by fornicating with those who would destroy them, and which I hate to say, but invariably comes back to bite them in one way or another.

I am aware that Pakistan has been involved in terrorism in Kashmir, but is it really genocide?
Collusion with the terrorists exists within the Pakistan Government, even up to the highest levels….

If you really want to talk about Pakastani involvement in genocide what about the Bangladesh War of Independence 1971?

The EU voted a resolution stating that Turkey’s denial of the Armenian Genocide was an “insurmountable barrier” to EU membership.
Having said that, they well may forget about this “insurmountable barrier” at some time in the future.

Is the genocide of 1971 ever discussed in Pakistan?
Well, not in Musharrf’s memoirs, where he discusses his “heroic” role in the 1971 war. He was stationed in West Pakistan. The fact that the Pakistan army massacred possibly up to 3 million civilian in 1971 does not get a mention.
I would love to see the EU produce a report on this.

Has an author like Salman Rushdie ever written about the 1971 genocide?
Has any Pakastani author or intellectual even taken a public stand on this?
Pakistan must come to terms with it’s past before we can take seriously the idea that Pakistan is a civilised country.

EliasAlucard - I can't help but agree with you. I find it extremely difficult to understand and accept how little outrage comes from Americans when it comes to soft pedaling anything Turkey does.

This is always followed up by the US' continual support of Turkeys entry into the EU. How can anyone take this administration serious when it talks about fighting the jihad, and then pushing for Europe's death at the same time?

Niv

GreekFrenchInfidel writes:
"This is the exact type of American hypocrisy that turns so many people, both in Europe and the other countries around the world against the country."

Believe me, there are plenty of patriotic
Americans who completely disagree with this US
pandering to Turkey over Armenia.

And while our whitewashing of Turkish Holocaust
denial is disgusting, it's still not as bad as
the fact that we BOMBED Serbia.

Still, given the behavior of some European
governments (Greek and French among them) I
think you need better reasons to be turned
against us.

armenian genocide should be recognises but so should the greek and assyrian genocide also be recognised also turkey should be brought for war crimes tribunerals for what it did in cyprus in 1974 when turkey massared 6000 Greek Cypriots 30 years ago we still have no justice yet my parents property is still illegaly occuped with turkish illegal settlers in it theres still 1000 greek Cypriots still missing.

The west though seems to have had a hand in helping turkey massacre greek Cypriots they used american weapons. I think Armenians and Greeks should forget about AMerica its a waste of time relying on America and the west we should get nukes from russian and go and take back constantinople

root_cause would you be so kind as to elaborate on the Greek governments behaviour.

I do not believe for a second that the Greek government hasn't made any mistakes, but I'd like to know what it is you are saying.

On the other side the Greek government was one of the very few that completely opposed the US led NATO disaster into Kosovo. The Greek government has stood up to many things the US has done wrong and I can't fault it on that.

It's hard to be very supportive when you watch so many examples of pro Turkish administrations in the US. Especially when they seem to be in every party there is. When will the US as a whole wake up and say enough of this, time to cut our losses but these people aren't any body's friend. I'm with Greek Gurl on this one, Greece needs to go her own way and buy nukes from Russia because one way or the other Turkey will get her own and without a doubt they'll be supplied by Uncle Sam, or by one of her Islamic brothers.

Niv

has anyone heard that turkey is really pissed of becuase oil has been discovered in the coast of Cyprus?

Greek Gurl here's a link to the oil situation in Cyprus, and the answer to your question is yes. Turkey is pissed and is intimidating Cyprus on the issue, oh of course the US is saying nothing about it.

http://www.hellenicnews.com/readnews.html?newsid=6298&lang=US

Niv

thanks for the site Fanatic i have just read it i cant beleive the nerve of those Turks i read that A Turkish government statement said the Greek-Cypriot government "does not represent the whole of the island" and warned that "its agreements with other interested parties have no validity for us."
Turkish-Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat said Turkey and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus "hold rights" over all natural resources on the island and its vicinity.

the TRNC is a illegal state and not recognised by any country apart from turkey so how can they have any rights over the natural resources in Cyprus its bad enough they stolen our homes now they want more i just wish that people would wake up and see turkey for what it is a invading thieving pirate in the mediteranean sea.

regarding to the US keeping silent yes they have but what else you expect but the us and uk are backing Cyprus in drilling the oil out not that its any of there business if we where or werent sometimes i wish the us and uk would stop poking there noses in they really are just as bad sometimes

If I was wearin boots I'd be shakin in em. That's my two cents.

“The twentieth century was marred by wars of unimaginable brutality, mass murder and genocide. History records that the Armenians were the first people of the last century to have endured these cruelties. The Armenians were subjected to a genocidal campaign that defies comprehension and commands all decent people to remember and acknowledge the facts and lessons of an awful crime in a century of bloody crimes against humanity. If elected President, I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people."

George W. Bush, February 19, 2000