Iran follows its Hostage Crisis playbook, as the West reads out of the Jimmy Carter Hostage Crisis Response Handbook, at least so far. From SkyNews, with thanks to Mackie:
The British sailors and marines being held in Iran are to be paraded on television - but the female sailor who was captured could be released "today or tomorrow."Turkish TV has quoted the Iranian foreign minister as saying Faye Turney could be freed within hours.
And an Arabic Iranian broadcaster says it will show footage of the captives on television.
The news comes after Tony Blair said the time had come to "ratchet up the pressure" on Iran.
What does it take for a Western nation to realize what an act of war is? even Olmert attacked Hezbollah over 2 soldiers. Doesnt say much about Tony Blair.
Old Jimmy must be chomping at the bit to get back into the game. After all, he wrote the rule book.
Why doesn't Tony Blair grow some stones and go in and get these people? Just go in and get them! Stop this pacifist BS and do something! And forget about "offending" these scumbags!!!!
This time, Blair IS behaving like a poodle. This is a major international incident and all he does is give them a mild warning. If this ever happens to us, let's hope our President doesn't behave like a wussy.
blow up the Iran to Russian gas/oil pipeline....cut off the money...
...then after the hostages are executed...turn Iran into a true dust bowl...
I dont get it. Its a clear declaration of war. Where is Britian's backbone. Where is world condemnation?
Tony Blair is an idiot. Imagine if this had happened while Lady Thatcher was Prime Minister. Remeber, she went to war when Argentina siezed two barren rocks and some sheep. Of course, Blair doesn't want to lose Labour big Muslim constituency, so he'll do nothing to protect British honour. That is if Britain has any honour left?
Britain needs Nick Griffin as their next Prime Minister. Or else, they'll become a colony of Islam.
Poor guys (and one woman...she is really in trouble)
The chance of rescuing these poor troops is small to nonexistent. Deep into Iran, the only way to get them out is to lick boots. Will we?
We've got to toughen up, dry the teary eyes and fight for our existence.
BTW, the Geneva Convention prohibits "parading" POWs
doesn't it?
/sarcasm
Elric66 asked above
"Where is Britian's backbone?"
It died in 1952, along with King George VI...
Get your yellow ribbon out folks and tie it around a tree..........Its Jimmy Time!
We are getting close to....
G.W. = Blair = Carter
blow up the Iran to Russian gas/oil pipeline....cut off the money...
...then after the hostages are executed...turn Iran into a true dust bowl...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 28, 2007 12:11 PM
Hmm, the 'bomb everything' school of thought. Oh wait, did I say 'thought'
The number 1 priority is the safe return of the servicemen and woman.
For those that wonder why they didnt shoot to escape, or why the Cornwall didnt turn her guns on the Iranians, or why Tony Blair hasnt bombed anything yet is...Procedure. It is important that the iranians are given every opportunity to return those taken and diffuse the situation.
Then, IF they dont, I am confident the hawks amongst you will get your fireworks, LEGITIMATELY having exhausted all other options.
Elric66 asked above
"Where is Britian's backbone?"
It died in 1952, along with King George VI...
Posted by: KnightHawk at March 28, 2007 12:24 PM
That is so sad but given Britian's track record at home dealing with jihad, its really no surprise.
Hmm, the 'bomb everything' school of thought. Oh wait, did I say 'thought'
The number 1 priority is the safe return of the servicemen and woman.
For those that wonder why they didnt shoot to escape, or why the Cornwall didnt turn her guns on the Iranians, or why Tony Blair hasnt bombed anything yet is...Procedure. It is important that the iranians are given every opportunity to return those taken and diffuse the situation.
Then, IF they dont, I am confident the hawks amongst you will get your fireworks, LEGITIMATELY having exhausted all other options.
Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at March 28, 2007 12:30 PM
Its procedure to allow yourself to be captured without a fight? Seems Iran didnt follow any procedure when it declared war.
And still no persons in any Western government calling this an 'Act of War' -- what kind of crazy world do we live in now? These soldiers have been kidnapped from non-Iranian waters off of a vessel of Her Majesty's fleet and it's just going to be more of the same propaganda-toying that was done before, and before that.
The moment these soldiers are back in safe hands the Tomahawk missiles should fly.
Anything less will just show once again that our resolve is broken, that diplomats are reading Chamberlain and not Churchill and that Islam is winning the Global Jihad.
Just wait until Iran possesses nuclear weaponry. You haven't seen real international extortion yet until that day arrives. And it could escalate into Mahdi-inspired genocide versus Israel and proliferation of deadly technology to any number of Islamic terror units already on the Iranian payroll, for delivery right to your doorstep or mine.
Like lemmings we parade towards the brink....
"Procedure. It is important that the iranians are given every opportunity to return those taken and diffuse the situation."
...the procedure is to call Ahmadinejad and advise him to release all hostages in 24 hours.....then hang up....
The humiliation of the Brits continues...
Not quite the 444 unedurable days (remember those portentous opening bars of music, and Day ___, with the number upped by one for each program, and the insufferable waste of time with Ted Koppel, as we solemnly discussed Day 93, and Day 187, and Day 223, and Day 346, and yes, right up to Day 444). How many billions of man-hours did we all waste watching, semidemihemi-mesmerized, the television crap, which taught us nothing, in which we learned absolutely nothing about Islam, or about the doctrines for which that good theologian, the Ayatollah Khomeini, stood (and which were not his doctrines, but perfectly standard Shi'a Islam, and when it came to attitudes toward Infidels, an Islam shared exactly by the Sunnis). Where is Ted Koppel now, still unaware of how little he instructed either himself, or those whose duty it was for him to instruct, with those earnest town-meeting-like gatherings (do they still do that, on our insufferable television programs?), and what has he learned about Islam in the last few years that he might begin to share with us?
Oh, there were two kinds of androlepsy during that whole hideous 444-day episode. There was the seizure of the Americans in the Embassy. And then there was, at the same time, a different kind of seizure -- a seizure of our attention, a seizure of our minds or what we had left of them, at the end of a day, by the completely unenlightening coverage of this event, in which not 444 Americans were physically held hostage, but 260 million (at that point) held hostage by the ill-informed but grave likes of Ted Koppel. And he was hardly the worst. Compared to the late and unlamented Peter Jennings (who had such a peculiar way of paying his respects to his older colleague in the business, cancer-suffering David Brinkley), Koppel was practicaly the Encyclopedia Britannica. But that is only by comparison with the tendentious Jennings, who two days after the World Trade Center attacks chose to interview his good friend Hanan Ashrawi, whose intolerable remarks he, Jennings, found not only completely tolerable, but had not a word of demurral to offer.
Now comes what is not strictly androlepsy, for that word is normally limited to the seizure of diplomats (or, in my extended use above -- one for the books, if the books happen to be the volumes of a ceaselessly-updated O.E.D.), but a seizure, for political reasons, of British sailors. The response so far has not exactly been one of "Perdicaris Alive, or Raisuli Dead." Nor has it been one that would have made Palmerston proud. There are many ways for Great Britain and its allies to ridimension (from the It. "ridimensionare"), or cut down to size, the ridiculous pretensions of the Islamic Republic of Iran. One hopes that they will, or perhaps already are, being put into effect.
BREAKING NEWS:
FOX IS NOW SAYING THAT IRANIAN STATE TV IS AIRING VIDEO OF CAPTURED BRITISH TROOPS
I hope Tony Blair is satisfied-for months he ran around talking of how wonderful Islam was and how we should all get along. Well, now the Iranians have captured some of his people and will put them on display like zoo specimens. This idiot talks nonsense and does nothing while troops who know better and have to stick their necks out are held hostage. Go on Blair, make some more nice speeches. Maybe you can sweet talk the Iranians into releasing the hostages, you gutless loser.
Geneva Convention; Article 86
The Detaining Power shall place at the disposal of interned persons, of whatever denomination, premises suitable for the holding of their religious services.
I think the Article meant to say “holding of their new religious services“. It didn’t take long to wrap up the British lady in a black towel and parade her on TV.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/geneva1.html
@Hugh: Here's one answer as to what Ted Koppel has been up to. He never uttered the words Islam, Muslim, Jihad or Qur'an in the entire special. And yet he's still one of the better journalists. Frightening revelation, that.
My Reaction to 'Our Children's Children's War'
The British alone can do nothing in this. While their SAS is top 5, their navy is cheap, the RAF is mundane and their army has about a 2 week supply.
This is the reason once again the United States is moving troops to the Iraqi and Afghanistan border and the reason the Stennis and Eisenhower are prepositioned for any allied plans.
Iranian logistics has miscalculated that America can not mount a ground invasion of Iran as much as Iran thinks it's sunburn missiles will stop the US carrier groups.
If the United States decides it is good to go as the Russian intel is leaking from satellite photos (same source which pinpointed the British so the Iranians could kidnap them) and what it is being told by "UN combined tactical information", then the mountain division in Iraq will open a front in the north, the ID will probe the western flank and sorties will strike from the east out of Afghanistan with major air strikes to cripple the infrastructure and kill the Qod and Republican Guard as they shift to mount an attack in the south to negate the Boxer's Marine expeditionary unit which is to take the southern oil fields.
The same mountain country which planners have leaked would make Iran not viable to a ground operation also funnels Iranian forces into massive kill zones once they react to secure their fronts.
Ahmadinejad might think baiting America into this fight so America will loose will rid the region of the "great satan", but the Iranian people know full well that America is not Saddam's blundering forces.
A smoldering Iran with American forces holding southern Iran is an easy do operationally.
There may be nuclear warheads out of Iran launched, but they are coming any way in the next 5 years. Iran wills a fight and the US has planned for it to save the English once again.
He's the child of refugees from Nazi Germany who has yet to make sense of things (think George Soros). He's thinks of himself, and so do his admirers, and certainly his network does, as a "serious journalist" (this means someone better than Katie Couric or Baba Wawa). That is how bad things are. Koppel should stay down in Captiva or Sanibel Island, in one of those luxurious places these people favor, among other people much like themselves, and simply work on his well-tanned swing.
Did anyone else see the press conference with some British admiral demonstrating exactly where the sailors were captured, and the fact that it was unquestionably within Iraqi waters?
According to him, when they contacted the Iranians with the coordinates, the Iranians sent back what they said were the correct coordinates ... which ... were also in Iraqi waters.
When the Brits politely pointed this out, the Iranian response was 'Whoops, did we say there? We actually meant here' - and this time it was in Iranian waters.
We missed a good PR oppo there. We should have called a press conference after the first email, and told the press, 'The Iranians admit they came into Iraqi waters to capture our soldiers! Look, here's where they say they found them, and here's the border!'
Then the Iranians would have had to do their about-turn in front of the world's media.
Also the British papers today are full of Faye Turney. Because she's a giiiiiiirl! And she's got a cute widdle kiddie! Who needs her mummeeeeee!
I hope this is pure cynicism on their part ('Hey, Muslims are so sentimental about giiiiiiirls, let's see if this works'), but I fear it may just be generalised soppiness.
WSW
If Sir Winston were still occupying No.10 Downing, instead of the paralyzed and clueless Mr. Blair, the mullahs wouldn't have tried to pull this crap in the first place.
I am becoming more and more convinced that the first serious resistance to the jihad will come from ordinary citizens, not from these poseurs elevated to positions they were never suited for solely through the efforts of well-heeled mass-marketers. If I were to guess, the 'shot heard 'round the world' will be not at that Lexington bridge, but somewhere in France, Denmark or Israel.
Dear not so great Britain,
Remember the Falklands!
Your friend,
not so united States
According to him, when they contacted the Iranians with the coordinates, the Iranians sent back what they said were the correct coordinates ... which ... were also in Iraqi waters.
The Iranian Navy needs to re-calibrate their praying Arabs. Their east seems to be out of whack.
"Day 93, and Day 187, and Day 223, and Day 346, and yes, right up to Day 444)."
...yep, and Ahmadinejad was there at that time....some things never change....
...no more talk....
First of all if that woman or seawoman as fox labelled her. Have you ever heard such PC drivel?
If she is not Islamic or Muslim, after her release, she should bring Geneva Conv. charges at the Hague against Iran for making her wear that towel. It is one thing if you voluntarily go into an Islamic country and have to wear one but she didn't go of her own will. it's religious persecution or something like that.
Iran announced, see Israeli newspapers that they would begin pricing their oil in currencies other than US dollars. Not a good thing for USA.
I just participated in a poll @ fox where 93% said that we and UK should stop buying oil from Iran until they release them.
Did you know that Iraq's oil sales only amount to $35 to $45 Billion? We have US corporations that do better than that. No wonder they are late with their payments to Russia. How can you run a country on that piddly amount? Shucks Ford Motor Co. LOST 7B last year and they're still in business!
Anybody, besides me see a suspicious relationship between Ford's crappy cars for some time now and the fact that is where we have the most MUSLIMS in the USA? Maybe I'm seeing Muslims behind talking trees and stones. Or maybe not.
SOT
Mr Fitzgerald wrote above
"... semidemihemimesmerized ..."
This word appears in no dictionary
You should copyright it
Copyright a word? What a crazy and wonderful idea.
No gut reaction from UK? Britain has been gutted heart and soul. Obviously, there's no gut to react. Dead soul of Britain. Dying West. Soon they'll be like the Swedes. Men who can see their daughters raped and still do nothing. Watch the slow motion 'measured response' and then the 'ratcheting up of pressure', warnings, diplomacy etc. ad nauseum. Sad sad sad.
Hmmm, the 'appeasement' school of thought - oh wait...
So, when the bargaining has been done, when the mullahs have been given what they want, what then? Everyone is happy? Until the next time, and the next, and the next...
These service personnel were illegally taken prisoner in a cross-border incursion, by a foreign power. The only diplomacy should have been a very, very short message - return our people, unharmed, within twenty-four hours, and we won't turn your entire military apparatus into smoking ruins.
"The number 1 priority is the safe return of the servicemen and woman."
When one puts on the uniform of one's country the "safe return" has less priority than projecting and enforcing the will of their country. Therefore, these are not hostages; furthermore, because there is no declared war they are not technically POWs.
This is nothing less than Iranian brinkmanship and it will fail utterly if the leaders in the West can simply remember that the 15 are uniformed servicemen.
Iran wants their captured and defected spies back and they seized an opportunity. After we wring every bit of operational intel out of them we can do a trade.
Those seven captured and defected agents know a great deal more of good use to us than the 15 Navy and Marines that were performing routine searches in Iraqi waters could possibly give Iran.
Iran is playing for time. The mullahs know they'll never have the industrial base of a Germany or Japan so they're working on acquiring standard weapons through trade and bringing their NBC capabilities to the point where they can project power through intimidation.
This is the 2nd wildly illegal act of this kind in less than three years.
The 15 are being held and paraded in flagrant contradiction of the Geneva Conventions and 21st C. human behavior. Not precisely analogous, but when ENIGMA revealed Nazi plans to bomb Coventry, Churchill did the hard thing--maybe the hardest of all.
We have to reach back and find the courage of our fathers.
in case anybody didnt see the vid.....http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f51_1175104298
I noticed that the segments that showed the sailor Faye Turney speaking, she never looks at the camera and appears to be reading text off screen. Strong circumstantial evidence that Ms. Turney does not agree with what she is saying, and she is being forced to say what the Iranian govt. wants her to say.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1257880,00.html
Iran has determined we have no real military option. Bush is fixated on Iraq. Condi has convinced Bush to let her handle everything.
Provoslavni
the falkland islands are surrounded by extensive uncapped oil and gas reserves. the falkland islands are also a strategtic foothold in the south atlantic for the UK. argentina forcibly invaded a soverign country. the iran/british debacle is questionable in regards to where exactly the marines were located.
how they were captured within range of their home frigate is beyond me, and what was HALO doing? all playing pocket billiards up in the sky?
Sadly those british forces held captive are bargaining chips and will be released in a few days time. going to war over this would be a huge error.
what is needed is a tactical strike against the iranian leadership followed by assistance in any iranian revolution against the fanatical islamic heirarchy.
any ground assault against iran will require a call up in the USA, something which i'm sure the majority of the US population would be against.
Hugh I think Lord Palmerston, must be turning in his grave. The Don Pacifico affair was and should be an example in a case like this. I think that he forced the Greek Government in 1850 to compensate a British subject, and a Jew at that, (so much for British Antisemitism) to fork out 2,000 pounds compensation for his bed alone, after his home was attacked and vandalized by a mob. When you play with the big boys expect to get hurt. This kidnapping of the British Servicemen and women like the Dom Pacifico affair is nothing more than trying to twist the tail of the British lion, in the same way that the attack by Iranian forces a couple of weeks ago on an American boarder patrol was to pluck a feather out of the tail of the American Eagle. Lets have a few hostages, negotiating pawns and then humiliate the American and the British and drive a wedge between the two allies. It worked before why shouldn't it work again. The problem is if it works this time they will try it once again, make no mistake about it. What the American and the British should do is make a pact as they did at Casablanca in the last war to stick though this through thick and thin. Then a condemnation of this act in the UN, like me you might not like the UN, but it is better to have your back covered. Then a slow relentless build up of pressure on Iran. Intimidate Iran by building up the fleets of the two nations in the gulf area.
When everything is in place then give them an ultimatum. You have got thirty day to release the illegally captured prisoners or suffer the consequences. Perhaps ten days before the ultimatum expires a raid on Iran, deniable of cause, by the special forces of the two nations, just to keep the pressure up. Concentrate there minds. When the ultimatum is past give them a day to think that America and Britain are paper tigers and they have won. The following day launch a cruise missile at an insignificant target a couple of miles from Qom keep them off balance. Make them think that the weapons are not good enough to hit there holy shrine. Perhaps another days wait to see how they react, and then launch an all out attack on there infrastructure with cruise missiles and destroy there navel base with a massed aerial assault. Land a brigade of Marines on a piece of open coast, give them something else to think about. The art of war is to keep the enemy off balance. Lets not forget the icing on the cake, let the Israelis have a go, give them the right to overfly Iraqi airspace to put the boot in. If I was an Israeli I would be pissed off having been told that I was worthless and descended from Apes and pigs. Do not give in until they have conditionally surrendered, problem solved.
Don Pacifico
I disagree. It is imperative to pursue all peaceful channels before using force.
Not only for the legitimacy for military action to be established but also to give time for intelligence to be gathered about the servicemen's location, without which any military action to achieve the objective will fail.
As i repeat, the objective, the number 1 priority for the British Govt and its military will be the safe return of its servicemen, not firing the first shots in a war against iran.
Only when this first stage has run its course should we initiate and execute the military plans that ARE being prepared.
Just because it doesnt leave a smoking crater/country/mosque...doesnt make it appeasement.
There was a point in WWII when it was announced the Black Watch was across the Rhine. I gather there was a palpable sense at that point the war might be nearing the end. Roll on the day it is announced the Black Watch ( whatever part of the RRofS they now are [sigh] ) are across the Shatt al-Arab and beating feet for Tehran.
What the Iranians have done smacks of piracy perhaps they should be treated as such. Modern naval vessels have something approaching a yardarm from which pirates may be swung I believe.
IBM
"I disagree. It is imperative to pursue all peaceful channels before using force."
...trying this with Muslims is an effort in futility...spinning your wheels...or just blowing smoke in the wind....
The Muslims track record is dismal in these types of situations....
...brute force is all they understand and it is all they deserve...
this is off topic, but i really need a german version of islam 101 or similar for my upcoming lecture. please help!
Unfortunately my friend that great Scottish regiment does no longer exist. Downsizing amalgamation call it what you will has doomed that great regiment to extinction. The ladies from hell as they were called by the Germans in the first world war because they always fought in there kilts right up until 1940 are no more. I always like there motto, it said it all (NO ONE ATTACKS ME WITH IMPUNITY ) let those buggers off the leash and they would soon sort out monkey man and his acolytes. Unfortunately also is the fact that wireless has limited the actions of the man on the ground, before the invention of radio. British officers had more discretion. When it took two months to get a reply from the War office nobody took much notice of all the directives but got on with the job and sorted it out as best they could. What the war office usually did was to accede to the action already taken, they literally couldn't do anything else. Now things are completely different, what with satellite communication there is complete control from Whitehall. Let a couple of soldiers fart and and next day the Commanding Officer of the regiment is deluged with E-mails asking why the rate of flatulence is on the rise in his regiment. This would not be a real problem apart from the fact that they also want to know if this flatulence is racially or religiously offensive to any minority groups that might be a member of the regiment. Hanging people from the yardarm is unfortunately not on, sticking a head on a pike at the entrance to London bridge or staking the bodies of criminals on the mud flats at Wapping to deter people who entered London from criminal activity is now definitely a no no. although it did have an effect by fulfilling the criteria for good Law. It was cheap quick and seen to be done. Now unfortunately in these modern enlightened times justice it is expensive ,long winded and as a result the judgment are not rooted in reality to put it very politely. Come back Nelson all is forgiven