More on the German Qur'an case: "Paving the Way for a Muslim Parallel Society," from Spiegel Online, with thanks to all who sent this in:
A recent ruling in Germany by a judge who cited the Koran underscores the dilemma the country faces in reconciling Western values with a growing immigrant population. A disturbing number of rulings are helping to create a parallel Muslim world in Germany that is welcoming to Islamic fundamentalists.She didn't know it, nor did she even expect it. She had good intentions. Perhaps it was a mistake. In fact, it was most certainly a mistake. The best thing to do would be to wipe the slate clean.
Last week, in the middle of the storm, Christa Datz-Winter, a judge on Frankfurt's family court, was speechless. But Bernhard Olp, a spokesman for the city's municipal court, was quick to jump in. Olp reported that the judge had been under emotional stress stemming from a murder that had been committed in her office 10 years ago, and that she was now planning to take a break to recuperate. He also mentioned that she was "outraged" -- not about herself or her scandalous ruling, but over the reactions the case has triggered.
The reactions were so fierce that one could have been forgiven for mistakenly thinking that Germany's Muslims had won the headscarf dispute and the controversy over the Mohammed cartoons on a single day and, in one fell swoop, had taken a substantial bite out of the legal foundations of Western civilization.
Read it all.
From the article -
“The problem Germany faces with its deeply religious Muslim immigrants is not unlike the challenge modern Israeli society faces in dealing with orthodox Jews. Fundamentalists -- including Muslims in Germany --- tend to produce large families, so that the men and women of the past could very well lay claim to a substantial share of the future.”
Can someone tell me if this is true? Does secular Israel fear orthodox Jews?
Here's a German amateur cartoonist's view of life in the "paradise of islam".
http://mitglied.lycos.de/ljsljs/_jpg/the-mullah-god-666.jpg
segregated swimming in Hannover:
http://www.politicallyincorrect.de/2007/03/in_hannover_geht_die_integrati_1.html
The current in Germany, like France, is like knowing someone for a long time and then seeing them change before your eyes. Like a junkie, they slip from one banana peel onto another. All you can do is cry, and pray.
"Christa Datz-Winter, the Frankfurt family court judge, argued as if she had already accepted the basic tenets of Sharia law. In the Koran, she wrote, "the honor of the man, simply put, is tied to the chastity of the woman." Therefore, she continued, 'for a man with an Islamic upbringing the fact that a woman is living according to Western cultural rules is already considered a violation of his honor.'"
- I lived and worked with the Germans for the last three years (military exchange}. The guys I worked with were uniformly disturbed by what was happening in the immigrant populations, who refused to integrate and did not attempt to assimilate. But apparently the judges know better, and have decided to bend the German society to shape the immigrants, rather than uphold German law. This shows how shallow the philosophical/ideological basis of law is in Germany...and this in a country that produced eminent ethics philosophers like Kant.
But that brings up a question on what we can have as a basis for law. Can philosophy be used as a basis for law? Philosophy has always had a problem with the fact/value chasm, or the "is/ought" split. It is almost impossible to philosophically ground law. The Western system of law is not based on philosophy, it is based on the Judeo-Christian concept of law (Greek philosophy has had an influence, but not so comprehensive as Judaism or Christianity).
This is a difficult thing to accept, but it means that we must stop being PC and start evaluating all belief systems, whether they be theistic or atheistic. Islam is an ideology and a religion, and if you extinguish the fire up to the the religious firewall and go no further, it will continue to blaze up. Let's put all religions and non-religions up for criticism, and ask which belief system builds the most comprehensive explanation for reality.
Thanks for this forum, I think here is one of the few places where folks can do that. I hope our country (the U.S.) and our western cultural allies can also allow that.
Dhimmi-Deuschland über alles.
http://www.spiegel.de/videoplayer/0,6298,17000,00.html
I've been seething all day after seeing this. Even if you don;t speak German it's well worth watching. The men getting thrwn out of the pool are not exactly happpy FYI. One even mentions the word "tax payer".
The masculine German lesbolady seems of the Rosie variety. She's quite happy to have 'women only' swimming.
Typical! She doesn't understand that the moslems are taken every inch of space we are willing to give. If it's bad for Men in her view it's probably good. Schlampuh!
The comments in German cyber space are quite telling. They're bveginning to get riled up.
Read the entire article. Especially Part 4 has me retching!
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,474629-4,00.html
The German courts keep allowing them to install loudspeakers and wake up people EVEN BEFORE DAWN!!!
I hope Winston Churchill is right: 'The Hun is either at your knees or at your throat.'
Time to get our Hun on!!!
German courts are far worse than anything here in the USA. I had no idea how bad it was. I think I've been happily living in the USA and complaining about the beer here and the bread.
Bad beer and bread is far better than a HORRIBLE SELL-OUT judiciary!!!!
Even when the POLOticians step in and refuse Wailing Permits the moslems run to OUR COURTS paid for with OUR MONEY and allow them to wail and caterwaul.
Dhimmi Deutschland Disgusts me!
Give me back Communism PLEASE!!
Bring back the WALL!!
I didn't think you people will stoop this low...You are nothing but a bunch of racist skin-heads....I have never looked down on someone because of the colour of their skin...or ethnic background...I am 110% european and MUSLIMS are definetly welcome to say in my country even the immigrants
Wallah, some of ur comments are disturbing
Deutscheland unter Allah?
I prefer unter den Linden, but I don't have to live in Germany.
(Although it's getting bad enough in my own general region of the New World, what with Islamic Centers metastasizing like tumors ...thanks to the naivete of the unhistorical, multicultural sleepwalkers who are failing to resist their infil-traitor invasion of the infidels.)
Abdullah:
You are constantly confusing the issues under discussion. Islam is not a race and no one has brought colour into the subject. Islam is an ideology, and it is that ideology which is a problem in any Western country.
Where you were born makes no difference either.
If someone is born in a cowshed, that does not make them a cow!
Why do you claim England as "my" country?
Many other people live here, too. We don't all feel the same way as you do. We see our people blown up on their way to work and watch films from programmes such as channel 4's documentry, and yes, we are disturbed. The British people are deeply disturbed!
Sorry for typo; "documentary".
I am 110% european and MUSLIMS are definetly welcome to say in my country even the immigrants
Wallah, some of ur comments are disturbing
Posted by: Abdullah
Abdullahfanculo. You ain't 0.0% EUROPEAN!! When you learn to spell definitely you can take the loserklimbs BACK to TO THE BOGS with u!!
If you so EUROPEAN then WHY haven't we HEARD you condemn the perverted iraniazistans for their illegal hostage-taking of British sailors? WHy haven't we hear a PEEP from ANYONE re. the VIOLATIONS of the Geneva Conventions by the PISSLAME 'repubelic' or iraniazisatan??!!
I am waiting to hear from inHUMAN RIGHTS WATCH and Amnesia on this ONE!!! Where's the AffanCuLUo ACLU?
I guess it's ALWAYS haram I mean halal when the MoMofai is vilating HUMAN RIGHTS!!!
I AM THIS SICK OF THE LOT OF YOU DEMANDING LOSERS!!
Most of all, Abdulfanculo, WE EUROPEAN PATRIOTS are waiting to HEAR from the LIKES OF YOU demanding the islamonaziranians RELEASE the British sailors NOW - AND apologise to the British people! How about THAT one you 0.0% EUROPEAN!!
REAL Europeans DRINK Beer and Wine and Scotch and Vodka and Schnapps and Slivovitz and Obstler and Martini and Absinthe and so on. Those among us who don't they refrain from amking a BIG Freaking DEAL about their choice not to.
Your are NOT a European!
GO HOME!!
GET OUT!!!!
VAMOOOOOOOOSE already!!!!
We don't need your haramness among us ANY LONGER!!!
We don't need your back-stabbing halalness either.
it is TIME ***WE EUROPEANS*** stood together and CLEANED HOUSE!!!
In an African-American vernacular.. OUR HOUSE BE FUNKY!!!
Lets's CLEAN OUT THE FUNK!!!!
It's gonna get ugly, Abby. VERY ugly.
The first among us are beginning to get real PISSED with you all.
You have no idea how many we are!
You think we're all a bunch of white men and that is all?
even that would be plenty if we are allowed to MAN our ARMS and take you on directly.
There are more than one Chinese WOMEN I know who are SO SICK of lazy islamos.. they can't figure out for the life of them WHY on EARTH America and Europe would possibly allow the likes of you among us. They're disappointed with us for acting so weak in front of a rat pack of stone age barbarians!
One of these Chinese Women told me; "Why do you think the Chinese nuclear arsenal can only fly 900 miles? Beacause it's not meant for the Americans. it's meant for the **moslems** who are causing trouble in WEST CHINA".
I tend to believe her. The Chinos are neither STUPID [like you are] nor suicidal [like you are].
If you continue to ENRAGE us our response may become CREATIVE.
MUCh more CREATIVE than you can possibly imagine.
Let me just say this much: assymetrical warfare can work both ways.
THINK about that next time you're circling round your little black stone on your haj.
The Chinese among many other countries seek to better their standard of living and YOU ar eall that stands in the way of developing the entire world in PEACE!
YOU moslems are beginning to TICK OFF EVERYONE ELSE!!!
I live in New York and I TALK to MANY PEOPLE about the pislamic menace.
TRUST me, not nearly ALL of us read the NY TIMES!
We aren't all a bunch of media-hogging leftist college kids aqnd opportunists.
MOST of us BELIEVE in a few things. I among many WILL lay down my life to DEFEND the things we HOLD DEAR - regardless whose soil I happen to be on!
One thing I PROMISE not only you but everyone here - If I should GO I will take AS MANY of the ENEMY with me as I possibly CAN!
European - my FOOT!
I didn't think you people will stoop this low...You are nothing but a bunch of racist skin-heads....I have never looked down on someone because of the colour of their skin...or ethnic background...I am 110% european and MUSLIMS are definetly welcome to say in my country even the immigrants
Wallah, some of ur comments are disturbing
Taqiyyah-watch: Abby FAILED to mention she doesn;t look down on anyone for their .. drumroll.. FAITH.
Bu then.. I WILL say I look down on moslems for theirs. I despise their lies and thei lack of productivity and their lack of positive contributions of any kind.
i despise them for their demanding and arrogant ways.
I despise them for their inflated egos. moslems are like parrots: alla ala ala illa lila ala balla and so on..
GOD what a BORING lot!
BACK TO THE BOGS!!!!!
They should stop whining. They wanted Islam, sharia and multiculturalism, and now they got it.
First of all Islam is an I D E O L O G Y, just so that you can understand that, my French familly has some Arabs married into it, they are Europeans as they have rejected your evil cult.
You do not think like a European, you are not a European in thought or action, you are a barbarian following some ridiculous cult based around a sicko warlord who had a desire to kill, take slaves and have sex with very young girls.
You are not British, you would not know what fair play was even if it came along and kicked you up your arse, I suppose it would have to get your head out of there first. Twat.
Assalamau Laikum all,
Well it is happening here is just as I have predicted many times. Western law WILL change ...it will be a happy mix of mild sharia and western laws...and ofcourse that's dandy...it's the correct medium for the development/expansion of wuslims...why should wuslims miss out?....it's our country too...aka Allah's SWT flat earth policy.
Next you shall see the (fruitful expansion of) faithless european kaffur finding solace in Islam. Divorce laws in Europe are so pro womens that your society is lopsided.
Mensfolk will freely embrace Islam...they won't mind having to wear a prayer cap (and a few of them will grow a brillo beards)...the important point is that they will have peace of mind...and refreshingly... access to muslimas who know the pride of place granted them by Allah SWT and will provide them a happiness that slutty wild womens of the west cannot.
Wild slutty womens will remain only in ever smaller decreasiing circles....friday is prayer day ...Juma-ki-raat...is best spent at the mosque...NOT freezing out in the steet waiting to get into a night club.
Ofcourse Peoples here on JW are angry...well not many embrace change easily anyway...but they get get dragged along with it ...and accept it in the end...your grandchildrens will know no different.
As for peoples wanting to arm themselves...why? this ruling has been done through the law... by a judge noless...an expert of the law....through due process set up the said country...and that cannot be challenged...this is the same law that will chuck armed kaffur into prison...by your police through your own law...so don't do that...there's a good kaffur.
Look accept the changes...inshallah they are inevitable...look for the good in Islam and embrace it (as Ahmadi please)...you will be much happier...when have I ever lied to you!!
"Divorce laws in Europe are so pro womens that your society is lopsided. "
....isn't a wonderful thing that women have rights and contol over how they live their life, free to choose whom they marry, and free to divorce if the husband turns out to be violent or worthless...free to remarry....free to live free...
Abdullah,
You insist on Islam being a race. Very good then.
So Islam is a nasty, murderous, anti-human race - very much like the race of Communism and Nazism.
If my hate of these three evil forces makes me a racist than I am proud of being one and you are welcome to call me racist whenever you wish.
Down with the race of Islam!
And the race of Nazism. And the race of Communism.
thomas.h, here here
Allahfanculo
You are right, Abdullah is not European at all. He just claims it, so he can lay claim to belonging in Europe. He is just one of a long line of Muslim liars who will say or do anything to stay in the West, till the time arrives that they dominate by numbers.
Just watching the muslims streaming into the swim center, while the kafurs are stopped at the door, it's shocking. The muslims were loving it. How about an dirty kafurs only swim sessions.
Just how passified have the europeans become? The native Germans are becoming the new jews. Good luck with that.
The case of any woman beaten by her husband is disturbing. But to have the husband's actions vindicated by a the intervention of a judge using a religious tome for guidance, a religious tome that is ideologically antithetical to Western thought and reason in many key respects, well that's just madness. As the greatest of all American philosophers, Yogi Berra, might say: That judge is making the wrong mistake.
The ruling of the German judge is nothing less than a step towards the imposition of reverse Jim Crow legislation, i.e. an inversion of the kind of laws adopted by the southern states of the US following the Civil War, in which Afro-Americans were supposedly to be treated as "Separate but Equal." Jim Crow legislation may have enforced separation between Afro-Americans and the wider community, but it was anything but equal. It was an abomination.
The situation in Germany is different only technically, in that we're talking about practitioners of an ideology, Islam, rather than members of a race. Islam has codified the despoiling of those outside of its own membership. This is simply social pathology and no honest person should be made to apologize for saying so. Anyone here want to see a return to Jim Crow? If not, then why should the insinuation of the norms of shariah be tolerated?
The braying and honking of certain posters here demonstrates what the future holds in store for those who are not willing to protest this cancer and to insist upon one law for all. We shall have the "peace" seen in the Moslem world, the hackings, beatings, murders and rapes, warlords and endless dispute over who is a true believer and who is an apostate. This future must be rejected now, loudly, stridently. If not, as Yogi once said: The future won't be what is used to be.
What I liked about the article was the continued emphasis on the 'outmoded' nature of Islamic concepts.
It's not as if the West had not previously been theocratic. We gave it up because it simply doesn't work over the long run without massive amounts of repression and state-sanctioned violence against the people.
Wild slutty womens will remain only in ever smaller decreasiing circles....friday is prayer day ...Juma-ki-raat...is best spent at the mosque...NOT freezing out in the steet waiting to get into a night club.
Again, it's not as if the West has no experience with "prayer days", since Sundays used to serve the same function as Fridays do for Muslims, of course, theological differences aside.
As the article in Speigel implies Islam has nothing to offer the West but a regression to something resembling our own theocratic past, which we've already rejected as unworkable.
As someone mentioned above, it is difficult to ground law philosophically, but we can reject Islamic law simply based on our own experiences with the legal system in place during the period of Western social history that is most analogous to Islamic social history. We don't need recourse to a philosophical grounding of law to reject Islam, is what I'm saying. Just as we would never allow 7th century European concepts to creep back into our legal system, so we should not allow Islamic legal concepts into it. And, since one of the concepts the West has rejected is the concept of parallel systems of law based on secondary characteristics like social class, gender or religion, there can be no parallel system of law for Muslims. They need to be forced to integrate or deported from the West. My personal preference is deportation and let them kill each other in their homelands. The "Diane West" defense against jihad strategy.
If I never saw another Muslim in my life, I'd die a happier man. Everything about them disgusts me in the same way everything about Nazism disgusts me.
Hurray, Germany's capitulating!
This would be funnier if it weren't so awful.
I apologize for the double post, but in case you don't know what I am referring to, here's the link:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,462149,00.html
And how long before this muslim parallel society becomes the dominant one and so they don't need the parallel bit any more?
From part 8 of the de Speigel article:
Curses! They're onto us and our evil spying methods of detecting ritual torture and abuse.
The whole thing is a pretty good read; there are notes of hope as well as world class examples of dhimmitude. Seems Europe still has some holdouts.
daffersd - You said it perfectly. European is not a race at least not entirely. It's a mindset. Almost like being Jewish. It's the moslems who discriminate by Faith and by race. Yet they insist that we treat them with velvet gloves.
And to:
Just how passified have the europeans become? The native Germans are becoming the new jews. Good luck with that.
Posted by: savitch
Is there room in Israel for a lot of German "fugees"?
Just kidding.. gallows humor.
venividivici - You're saying the rational thing. We've fought for too long to *remove* religion from political power in Europe and now the "progressives" are storming the barricades to bring it back. It's absolutely perplexing.
And to savich's pos:
"Just watching the muslims streaming into the swim center, while the kafurs are stopped at the door, it's shocking. The muslims were loving it. How about an dirty kafurs only swim sessions."
How about a LARGE group of German men go swimming right until they are thrown out. Have a nice pork and beer lunch before they go.. let some of that beer get in the water.. I know it's disgusting but this is what they do to us. They move in somewhere and start littering and hassling the natives. Then they get eal permission [in Germany at least] to install large state-funded mosks everywhere. Then they start caterwauling so the regular population is driven out.
it's time we start using some of these tactics.
Europe belongs to US!
England for the English - That's why it's called England!
France for the French - That's why we call it France!
Germany for the Germans - That's why it's called Germany.
Holand for the - never mind.. they're even worse off than us.
Yet it is they who have a ray of hope in the person of Geert Wilders. A lot is riding on his success in Dutch politics. it will open the door in other countries for New Thinking.
Even as we install more patriotic elements into our body politic it will take many more years until we remove all the judges who can effectively block anything that threatens the gains of islam into our lands.
We have to redefine islam as the cult that it is and not as a religion. DW/JW are laying the valuable groundwork.
What I am thinking of is a groundbreaking kind of work like "The Critique of Pure Reason" or something along those lines.
As long as islam is recognized by most among us in the west as a religion - albeit a bit of a "weird" one - we won't be able to take them out of business. We are victims of our own "tolerance". It is a luxury which is costing us dearly.
And what is up with Al Gore? I'd rather suffer Global Warming than islam any old day.
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/GregKoukl/2006/12/14/the_intolerance_of_tolerance?page=full&comments=true
The Germans didn't hestitate to methodically exterminate millions of peaceful, non-threatening Jews, Slavs and Gypsies, but now, when they are faced with a real enemy that feeds off of their generous wellfare system, gang-rapes their women and is responsible for most crime in Germany---all of a sudden the German people find it hard to muster the resolve to deal with this implacable enemy. The Germans were brave against defenseless, unarmed Jews and Gypsies, but against rioting "North-African" "youths" who openly proclaim their jihadist intent, the Germans show reservation and tolerance.
Anyone who thinks that what is happening to Europe is not divine punishment, and that it is a mere coincidence, is a fool.
Allahfanculo, such statements (or better put, such horseshit) like "Dhimmi Deutschland über alles" has no place in a forum like this.
I am an american jew living in Germany since 1997. To use the opening text to the nazi national anthem and exchange the first word "Deutschland" for the word "dhimmi" is really crass and lacking in taste, also hurtful for jews who suffered under the nazi regime. How dare you use a forum like this to spread such crap!
Phew. Disgusting.
Naseem, you are a phoney.
QUOTING FROM THE ARTICLE:
The reactions were so fierce that one could have been forgiven for mistakenly thinking that Germany's Muslims had won the headscarf dispute and the controversy over the Mohammed cartoons on a single day and, in one fell swoop, had taken a substantial bite out of the legal foundations of Western civilization.
END QUOTE.
Appropriate reaction to EVERY SINGLE INCIDENCE OF THIS. Every one of them unravels the basic freedoms -- as it did for this woman -- in Western countries. And if she loses the right to be dealt with under German law, the rights of others will follow. Then somebody will be "offended" by uncovered women (like our dear evil moring Yusuf Islam), "offended" by women in bathing suits on the beach, "offended" by seeing a cross anywhere, "offended" by Jews, "offended" by German only spoken in schools, "offended" by by Western civilization period. At least when the Ottomans won before they had to fight for it.
Callmeinfidel ...
I think you're right. I think Naseem is a fake Muslim who comes in here for attention and to get a rise out of people. All kind of shades of creepy!
abdullafanculo
your pedo prophet was the first racist of history. He kept black slaves and considered them inferiors.
And you are as much european as pigs are clean.
"Wild slutty womens will remain only in ever smaller decreasiing circles...."
nasperm, how is that now that the pakistani brothel you used to work at is closed? (see past news entry)
it must be terrible to walk around now that people in your surroundings know you were one of the burqad whores in there.
But after all, you are a muslim so muslim men alredy know you are dirty, unworthy, lacking in intelligence department and less than cattle.
seemzies don't ever leave JW. But you are wrong to discount the wildz and sluttie womenz of the west. They are hot and muslimahs are not.
Deal with it babe...
BTW I noticed that your great great grand daughter, Christine, will take second place in a wet t-shirt contest in Panama City Fla. sometime around spring break 2090.
you may rely on it
your nabi
nabi ZK
Oh yeah.
WSW
'Allahfanculo' wrote:
"England for the English - That's why it's called England!
France for the French - That's why we call it France!
Germany for the Germans - That's why it's called Germany."
Allahfanculo - didn't you use to call yourself 'MeanieMo'? Correct me if I'm wrong. Either way, you're something of a Nazi, aren't you?
you're something of a Nazi, aren't you?
...
No way schmeg. We will not let you turn this around. You are the mohametan or symp Nazi and you and your kind will be hounded to the ends of the earth.
*~@):~{>
nabi ZK