Islam Could Become Europe's Dominant Religion, Experts Say

"She said that she knew of around 200 converts in Glasgow alone, mostly lapsed Christians who had grown up without a strong religious background."

What is it about Christ and Christianity that would make these "mostly lapsed Christians" choose a life of subservience, slavery and even death for transgressions against their new faith as opposed to a relationship with Christ and a chance to make the world better by practicing, "Love they neighbor as thyself"? Is that thought so abhorrent to them that there could be a loving God and they could communicate with Him that they'd rather join the ranks of those who hate as a form of sacrament in their "religion". What were they worshipping when they were Christians, and what are they worshipping now?

There will be religion on the earth, whatever that may be. Are we really willing to throw out Christianity so that vaccum can be filled with Islam?

"What is it about Christ and Christianity that would make these "mostly lapsed Christians" choose a life of subservience, slavery and even death for transgressions"

growing up without a guide makes you stupid. If you look at who converts to islam, they are already lost causes, losers.

Those were people bound on drug addictions, stealing and living at the borders of society, with islam their situation is going to become the desolate desert they have been searching all their life.

There will be no Europe as we know it.

Free speech will be gone. The newspapers will all belong to the state so that nothing will be said against islam. The welfare system will surely collapse. The education system will also. Polygamy will rise.

Dictatorships will come into fashion. They will be needed to control the islamic fanatics who insist that all states must be islamic rule and the anarchy that goes with it.

The job market will further suffer since men won't be able to work as much because they must spend their time escorting their females around. The ones that are allowed out, of course.

Many jobs will not be allowed because they aren't islamic. The great art works of the past will be damaged or destroyed.

Basically, look at the middle east. That is Europe in the future.

If something isn't done. Soon.

I hope they never change the coat of arms

http://www.historyofglasgow.co.uk/historyofglasgow/coat_of_arms.php

All I can say is that parties like SNP will chase the Asian vote and break the union!
They have already promised a Scottish madrassa.

These "lapsed" Chrisitians are not really "lapsed" they are only cultural inheitors of nominal Christianity by truly lapsed Christian parents. The real truth is that those parents never found the otherworldly power of this mystial based faith-they read a bunch of rules and thought "oh thats what Chrisitanity is about". Actually its not. The rules come after the power from above. Thats why Paul keeps talking about being 'filled with the Spirit' for the Christian life. The thing with Christ is he dares you to test the faith (unlike Islam) and see if God (the God of Israel not the false pagan allah) will not move in your life. When I asked the famous british chrisitan author John Stott who wrote "Basic Chrisitianity" how one is 'filled with the Spirit' he gave a flip little reply "you pray" to me and the other theology students (this was in person). Its this sort of nonesense that Christian leaders give which leads to a dead faith. No offense but they have to get back to the mystical part of the faith. How are you filled with the spirit? Its in the Scriptures and has to do with a silent waiting the Orthodox call 'hesiychia' its all quite biblical and quite ignored by most in the West unfortunately. Of course the protestants are correct when they say you mustread the bible daily too. And finally I would add you have to take the promises the scriptures give on a 'good life' literally and accept them as ACTUAL promises to YOU in YOUR life and when you see God is real and actually answering your faith yourChrisitinty will be anything but lapsed. Some of my protestant charismatic friends understand this. I recommend reading Joyce Meyer on the subject she understands also. For the mystical parts of the faith read Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic mystics and dare to start to practice their disciplines in addition to reading the scriptures you will be surprised at the power you will recieve.

Anyway Islam is a very UNspiritual faith--you cannot ask or trust allah for anything you can only submit and 'what you see is what you get' in other words you work to earn his blessing and the only guarantee to heaven is if you die in jihad or on your pilgrimmage to Mecca. If you are not willing to do that then you have to do all the religious works you can to tip the scales of Allah in your favor in the afterlife. But as an exmuslim friend of mine said: "the problem with that is you are NEVER sure you did enough to get right with Allah. InChristianity you guys have salvation as a free gift from God if you accept that Christ died for you. In Islam NOTHING is free, especially not salvation."

This type of religion (Islam) appeals to the spirit of man because people dont like getting something for nothing they like the idea of working for it, or sacrificing themselves for it (even if it means blowing yourself up).

That and the lustful idea of getting some girls in heaven appeals to the most base desires of these converts. As well as the base desire of hatred against others (infidels) in jihad here and now with allowances for killing and raping (the spoils of war). Fools like Dinesh and the Emory wheel hacks either ignore this or are truly ignorant of it. It makes them feel good to pretend that Spencer and the Jihadwatch readers are some fringe conservatives. WE are not and growing knowledge of what Islam really is continues. We need a good Chrisitian revival in Europe. Bring on the Catholic Jesuits, bring on the Pentecostal charismatics and the travelling Orthodox monks of yesteryear and the fire and brimstone baptists --flood Europe until the moronic lukewarm useful liberal politically correct types are irresistably drawn back to the faith of their forefathers and not this little backside of the desert philosophy of lust and hatred that is Islam

Islam increased it's profile by killing 3,000 people in one day in 2001. That makes islam attractive how?

Because the mainstream media didn't bother with telling the truth about islam. And everyone that talked to a muslim was told they were just a tiny minority and the religion doesn't teach violence, rather peace. And the Bible teaches violence also. The five pillars are what it's about. Blah, blah, blah.

I heard a young Catholic read the five pillars on the internet and say wow, that's all good. And simple.

They have an excellent propoganda machine.

When is Christianity going to speak up? Never, that's why there is no Christian country.

Borg I agree --the simplicity of Islam appeals
to people --people who dont like to think.

That young catholic needs to read a little of the Roman Catholic BROTHER LAWRENCE. Before he knows it he'll be mentally strong enough to read Aquinas and Augustine. To be a Christian you need to use your brain. People forget that Christians love the rational. Sir Isaac Newton read his bible daily. Thats a fact that makes dawkins turn in his sleep at night.

Assalamau Laikum all,

The report says "Islam could be the dominant religion is Europe".

Can there really be any doubt....none in my intellegent mind.

The report says "in 35 years there will be twice as many Muslims in mosques on Friday as there are Christians in churches on Sunday".

Why so pessimistic...it will happen so much earlier than this....it's all part of Allah's top class flat earth policy.

Not only do you have competition from genuine muslims from Pak...but also local wuslims.

Peoples like your grandaughters ...and/or your son-in-laws...all will be wuslim inshalla.

Islam will teach them to be straight ...gays not withstanding.

Future town house developemts will come complete with a mosque...get to it yeehaa

There will be no Europe as we know it.

Free speech will be gone. The newspapers will all belong to the state so that nothing will be said against islam. The welfare system will surely collapse. The education system will also. Polygamy will rise.

Posted by: Borg

Very good point you make, but I think you should have written the above post in the present tense.

There is no longer Europe as we know it. Free speech is gone. The newspapers, although they don't belong to the state yet, never say anything against Islam. The welfare system is collapsing. The education system is also. Polygamy is rising.

In the popular media today --the enemies of Christianity just loooooove to say all manner of silly things such as Christianity is anti-intellectual and opposed to science. This is all nonesense to anyone who has actually read the scriptures (which do NOT claim to be a science text book). The vast majority of early european scientists had a belief in a rational universe created by God and this gave them enough incentive to go and do 'the science thing' to find rules and laws of the universe (chemical, physical etc). Aquinas didnt 'give way' to Science he welcomed it (thats why he loved Aristotle's work so much). Modern liberals love to ignore this and say Christianity is against intellectual activities --while Islam which ACTUALLY IS against such activities is dealt with kid gloves. "We have to respect that Muhammed cant be drawn in a cartoon but publishing the Davinci code and a putting a cross in a jar of urine as art is okay. You awful Christians are sooo ignorant is all okay? okay?" give me a break.

You don't need Christianity to defeat Islamism although some Crusader fervor would not hurt the cause. Perhaps new found Christian inspiration will be found in the conflict that will seek to eliminate the growing plague as expounded in this article. The floundering of Christianity is a natural conclusion when the the ministers of it swim in the shallow waters of populist dogma, celebrity worship and Hollywood theology. The only principle that seems to be practiced is "turn the other cheek" as the Islamists kick their asses all over their native countries and stomp on their culture built on the foundations of "real" Christianity.

Many are carrying their own personal Jesus as a guide and not the facade displayed by so call Christian organizations. They read the Islamist threat and will sweat the blood of Jesus as he did in the Garden of Olives to purge Humanity of this evil.

This article is futile. The Islamists will never reach the level of power as displayed in this article unless my corpse and those like me falls dead at the flick of their swords.

NASEEM SAID:

"The report says "in 35 years there will be twice as many Muslims in mosques on Friday as there are Christians in churches on Sunday".

Why so pessimistic...it will happen so much earlier than this....it's all part of Allah's top class flat earth policy."

*****

Actually Europeans are not so tolerant as you think. Germany was supposed to be the most tolerant and advanced country in the 30s and we all saw what happened there. I am not saying its a good thing but its a fact: Europeans will eventually react violently against Islamic encroachment inside its borders. It might seem impossible to some but history has a nasty way of repeating itself. And not just in the 30s but in the distant past until then as well. We view the Paris streets and think that muslims will eventually take over. Nope. I think there will be mass expulsions and killings of muslims. Again I am not saying its a good thing but it will happen.

I suggest we all make this a safer world and just attack and overtake Iran and Saudi Arabia and take all the oil and start sharing it with the free world. Personally Id like to see a nice butcher shop in mecca, and a jewish deli across from the kabba thing. Why our homosexual citizens could have a nice festive gay parade all around that area. Its the only way to appease the west when it goes fascist on your asses. Believe you me. It will happen. All those wonderfully 'liberal' Europeans are like that only as long as they can practice their depraved lives in peace once you start taking that away you will be suprised how vicious they can be.

It never ceases to amaze me when I talk to people in the US that they assume the whole 30s Italian german, spanish portuguese on and on fascism of the early 20th century was just some wierd historical anomaly, not realizing how European it is if you scratch under the surface. Ask the common folk in the European countries and youll see more then one of them if ready pitchforks in their eyes for our muslim 'friends' for when they get out of hand.

Go on... wait and see.

excerpts from:

February 6, 2006
A European Awakening Against Islamic Fascism?
By Victor Davis Hanson

Have the Europeans flipped out?

Hardly. Recent polls show a majority of Europeans are becoming increasingly tired of current liberal immigration policies
...
On January 19, Jacques Chirac warned that his military would use its nuclear forces to target states that sponsored terrorism against France—El Cid braggadocio that made George Bush’s past Wild West lingo like ‘smoke ‘em out’ and ‘dead or alive’ seem Pollyannaish by comparison
...
Conservatives are now firmly in power in Australia, Canada, Germany, and the United States. Immigration legislation under consideration from Scandinavia to France makes the American Patriot Act seem tame. Italian wiretaps led to arrests of Muslim terrorists who were plotting another 9/11 at the very time Democratic Senators in confirmation hearings tore into Justice Alito for supposedly condoning police-state tactics.
...
we should never forget that if aroused and pushed, a rearmed and powerful Europe could still be at the side of the United States in joint efforts against the jihadists. And should we ever see a true alliance of such Western powers, the war against the fascists of the Middle East would be simply over in short order.

READ IT ALL:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_6_06_VDH.html

The problem with the article’s premise is that population dynamics cannot be boiled down to an algebra equation. Someone posted a joke a while back:

A cowboy, an Indian, and a new Muslim immigrant are sitting at a train station in Alberta. The Indian gazes across the plain and utters “Once my people were many, but now we are few.” The cowboy gets uneasy, shuffles a little in his chair, and draws his hat lower over his eyes.

The new Muslim immigrant perks up and says to the cowboy “Once my people were few, but now we are many.”

After a pause; the cowboy leans further back in his seat, draws his hat still lower, and says “Well, we haven’t played cowboys and Muslims yet, have we?”

The probable outcome of too much freedom is only too much slavery in the individual and the state. Probably, then, tyranny develops out of no other constitution than democracy--from the height of liberty, I take it, the fiercest extreme of servitude.
-Plato

We should feel lucky, these are historic times.

There is an unarticulated part to this story. Many Moslems attend the mosque because they do not work, and hence have nothing better to do, but to socialize in this way. It is the leisure of being unemployed or on the public dole which allows for a "religious" life style to pray like this.

Off topic but very funny is Dr. Yousuf AlQaradhawi who admits that great things come from the west because westerners work whereas inhabitants of the Moslem world do not.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=645wmv&ak=null

He describes his visit to Germany in the 1970s and concludes that Moslems have not fulfilled their potential because they do not try to excel in things. He fails to consider that there is something inherently wrong with Islam that causes what he correctly identifies as an anomaly that the economy of lowly industrial Spain is greater than the economy of the entire Arab world.

What is it about Christ and Christianity that would make these "mostly lapsed Christians" choose a life of subservience, slavery and even death for transgressions against their new faith as opposed to a relationship with Christ and a chance to make the world better by practicing, "Love they neighbor as thyself"?

That is a good question and I wonder that myself... I imagine they have not idea what they are getting into and maybe it is some kind of "protest" or a way to put themselves in a minority status for grievence reasons.

It's very sad to read this article but it seems Europe is bearing the fruit of its secular, liberal anti-Christian policies. I sometimes wonder if is islam is going to be a vehicle of chastisement and purification similar to what our ancient Jewish brothers went through in Old Testament times?

I think what is also appealing about islam to many lapsed Christians is the simplicity of its ideology/psuedo-theology. They do not deal with major theological issues such as sin and forgiveness. In its essence the relationship between God and man within islam is master-servant. Whereas in Christianity we have a Father-Son relationship with God, the implications of that difference are enormous.

"Islam could become Europe's Dominant Religion"

Could become? I thought it already WAS Europe's dominant religion. Just goes to show how fast a malignancy can grow.

This from the London Times today

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1464601.ece

Yankee_boy

you are absolutley right
When enough people begin to realise what the nature of the threat that islam poses to their liberties, freedom and culture then that will be the begining of the end of islam.

The moslems always cry racism when any criticism is made.

The link above is about rape conversions carried out on Sikh/Hindu girls, how will all those liberal newspapers explain the racism here.

The other favoured group for the liberals/left is the gays, well we can't have queers and the koran can we ?
Sooner or later even the oh so self rightous liberals/left will realise this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gayrights/story/0,,1676449,00.html

http://www.galha.org/briefing/qaradawi.html

If the conservative/right parties realise this and actively reach out to all those who have something to lose from islam then islams majority or rather large threatening minority will be compromised.
When the situation becomes bad enough there will be a enforced military solution to the moslem population in europe ie. they will be asked to leave at gun point, not quite Darfur style (there will be no need to lower ourselves to the islamic level)

Slowley the left is realising this.
Have you heard of the Euston Manifesto Group ?
Here the link:
http://www.eustonmanifesto.org/

I am very optomistic that islam will be defeated, it is fragile, it can not deal with criticism.

We will win, because we are free people.

Poster 1: “All those wonderfully 'liberal' Europeans are like that only as long as they can practice their depraved lives in peace once you start taking that away you will be suprised how vicious they can be.”

So tell me – what sort of depravities does, say, the liberal Tony Blair or the Labour Cabinet (or other liberal politicians in Europe) get up to? I thought when it comes to “depravity” our cousins across the water could teach us a thing or two. Oh, sorry, I suppose you mean we don’t have enough Christian fundamentalists in Europe?

Poster 2: “When enough people begin to realise what the nature of the threat that islam poses to their liberties, freedom and culture then that will be the begining of the end of islam.”

That is more like it.

muslims are taking over europe thanks to the UK and USA for handing them christian lands on a plate like bosnia kosovo

and its the uk and usa who want turkey to join EU if usa and uk get its wish and turkey does join eu thne trust me it wont be 35 years robert it will be 5 or 10 years they take over

It looks very much to me like it already HAS done so....

Islam is unlike any other religion. It is a spiritual belief sytem and a political structure. It is the only major religion that sanctions, commands, rewards, and glorifies violence and specifically the murder of innocent men, women, and children. Islam must moderate and modernize.

We must tell the Truth about this rapidly spreading cancer. For those who believe that Evil is a legend that has passed out of existence in the modern world the Truth we espouse will never be accepted.

Sites like Jihadwatch and MEMRI are staffed by heroes of liberty and decency, in my opinion, and one would do well to spend a human life telling the Truth about the Islamic agenda which threatens us all and will surely define the coming decades.

www.savecivilization.org

Isabellathecrusader and FedUpagain are on the right track. These people lack self confidence and the inner strengh to love others.

Islam only requires you to hate others and envy others, it doesn't require you to love or honor those who are different.

Begala and the Democrats should apologize to Virgil Goode as well.

"Look," he said. "Holland is a society which is very, very liberal in terms of attitudes towards gender and towards sexuality. These people are clearly pushing against that."

Sounds like support for Dinesh D'Souza's hypothesis, no?

Why do psychially and economically marginal Westerners convert to Islam?

There is no one reason. There are many reasons.

Islam is wrongly perceived as a vehicle for "social justice." The fact that a rich Muslim can stand side by side with a poor one at a mosque is misintrepreted. The fact that Muslims are required to offer zakat to fellow Muslims is also misinterpreted as meaning that there is some kind of "sharing of the wealth."

But one has only to look at the history of Islam, and look at Muslim societies today, to see that the extremes of wealth and power (which in Muslmi countries is the only way to get that wealth -- the rulers, and their collaborators, help themselves to the national riches, whether it comes from oil, or smuggling (Syria), or Jizyah from Infidel lands (Egypt, the "Palestinians"). There are no Infidel lands that offer the same kind of gap between rich and poor, the ruler and the ruled, as do Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, and other Muslim countries. These great extremes are less obvious, in Dar al-Islam, in those countries, such as Turkey and Tunisia, that have tried to constrain Islam as a social and political force.

But the presentation of Islam as a kind of pseudo-socialism, a "left-wing" doctrine -- when it in fact encourages the habit of submission, submission to Allah, submnission to the Ruler, whoever he is, provided he can be seen as an observant Muslim -- is what attracts some, based on their own misinformation, to Islam.

A second, and related reason for some to convert to Islam is that Islam is depicted as the belief-system that most accords with, and furthers the interests of, les damnes de la terre, especially non-whites. It is amazing how carefully campaigns are targetted at certain groups -- say, black prisoners in America and England -- without any countervailing effort by the authorities, or even by Christian groups, or even by black Christian groups, who could and should be funded for such undertakings, to present the evidence about the history of Arab slavers seizing and castrating black African boys, or about the duration of the Arab slave trade, which began long before, and ended long after (where it did end) than the European slave trade, and the continued, indeed permanent, defense of slavery in the texts of Islam, which can never be overcome, and the continued enslavement of blacks by Arabs, in the Sudan, in Mauritania, and elsewhere, far from any Western reporters. There is so much information about this, but so little attempt to sensibly dissemnate it.

Still a third reason for Islam's appeal is that it is so simple to become a Muslim. You don't have to learn a thing. You can become a Muslim without knowing a thing about Islam. So eager are Muslims for what are seen as recruits to the army of Islam, that it doesn't matter if those converting or "reverting" know a thing about it, for it is not the saving of their souls that matters. All that matters for most Muslims is to swell further the ranks of Islam. That is why, early on, Islam required only a recital of the Shehada -- a single sentence, a single declaration -- and then one became a Muslim, and found out, later, what it was all about, but by that point one had no way to gracefully, or safely, within lands dominated by Muslims, get out of that faith.

A fourth reason is that not only is Islam a faith simple to join (whereas if you wish to become, say, a Christian or a Jew, you have to study, you have to actually learn something about Christian doctrine or Jewish faith) but it is a simple-minded faith, that appeals to the simple-minded. It is not a faith bent on questioning itself. It is the perfect faith for someone who cannot think, and does not like to think, and prefers to have handed to him a Simple and Total Regulation of Life, and a Complete Explanation of the Universe. For all those who need certainty, who cannot stand individual responsibility or moral choice, who prefer to be slaves of Allah -- well, Islam is just the ticket, it's just the thing for you.

But Islam is not a vehicle for "social justice." It is not the belief-system of non-racists, but the carrier of racism and imperialism: Arab racism, and Arab imperialism. Ask Francis Bok and the Lost Boys, or the black African Muslims in Darfur (400,000 killed, 2.5 million forced to flee their homes) or the 1.8 million black African non-Muslims in the southern Sudan. Or the Ibo and other Christians who vainly resisted the "Jihad" in the Biafra War of 1967-69. Islam inculcates the notion of a permanent division of the world between Believers and Infidels, and the duty of Muslims to pursue, through Jihad, the conquest, not necessarily by miitary means (Da'wa and demographic conquest will do), the Lands of the Infidels, where all obstacles to the spread of Islam are to be torn down, so that the goal that all Muslims share may be realized. No "diversity" but rather a world where "Islam dominates and is not to be dominated" -- everywhere.

Couple questions/thoughts:

Will the fourth and fifth generation of Muslims in Europe rebel, in turn, against the previous generations' religiousity? Secular Europe mtay eventually dilute Islamism.

Christianity is making a comeback in Europe, albeit in living rooms and basements rather than churches. Furthermore, this is evangelical Christianity, rather than the more desultory institutionalized kind.

No one discusses the conversion of Muslims in Europe to Christianity, perhaps because the converts must be careful not to advertise the fact. In the end, more Muslims will become Christians than the other way around, and these will be Christians in the Southern Baptist sense, not the Anglican Church one.

for men who convert to Islam maybe its a superiority complex, or a way for them to act out their fantasy of controlling women. For women I think it appeals to the type of woman who would marry a guy who beats her, and never leave him. A self-hating woman with low self esteem, thus the 'liberation' of the burka. She can finally hide completely from the world and claim it as religious expression

"Can there really be any doubt....none in my intellegent mind. "

how intellegent can be a half brained paki cow spelling "intellegent"?

very little. Nasperm, is the "degree" you bought in london worth more than toilet paper?

nasperm, watch your back, it's ahmadi open season in pak, the land of the pure!

I find it interesting that among the most fervent converts to Islam are erstwhile feminists (I think of the UK woman who gave the most recent alternate Christmas message).

I think this supports Hugh's view that these are women in search of a simple world-view. The feminist rejection of family and brutal focus on individual responsibility rather than community ultimately drives its adherents to other faiths.

The sick sorry fact is that Europe's anti-individualist, irrational approach to life is more harmonious with mohammedanism than with the western tradition of freedom and reason.

To the extent to which European laxness and amorality seems to be in conflict with mohammedanism's extreme restrictiveness, I think it's safe to assume that many European have an unadmitted (even to themselves) yearning for some kind of order in their lives.

The kind of order offered by the mad mullahs is more concordant with the irrational "nothing is true, everything is permitted" outlook of the Europeans than the keep-your-eyes-open, think-straight, and take-your-consequences realist outlook of America.

Look at it this way, Europeans like sexual chaos, and mohammedanism allows for judicial rape, Europeans like anti-human violence and mohammedanism allows all sorts of opportunities for murder and theft, and the list goes on...

Of course it's all tightly controlled, but there's some comfort in that.

Can't say I'm all that optimistic.

WWII isn't all that long ago, and the apple would have to fall pretty far from the tree to give us a much better outcome.

Joe Farah of Worldnetdaily.com not too long ago wrote an article about the need to send Christian missionaries to Europe ASAP.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54441

I am much more a person of hope in that with the global south booming in the Christian faith, expect Africa, Asia, and Latin America to send missionaries to the West and in a special way, to Europe, where everything will come full circle.

but i thought islam was some kind of middle eastern race?

In 35 years there is not going to be a trace of Muzbottery in Europe. Here in Britain I'm going to be appointed Commissioner for Islamic Affairs, my workFORCE will be known as the Himmelfart Kommando (thank you Yorkshire miner, for the wonderful euphemism. German is such a good language for euphemisms), and two tears after I'm appointed I'll be redundant as Britain will by then be Islamfrei.

Of course, there may be a few years more work for the Commission when other European countries see how pleasant a country can get after Islam is gone, and decide to hire our experience and expertise. Who knows, the then Brit government might even make handy profits out of it.

My preferred option will be deportation, but if they resist that, well ... you know ... whatever. I'm easy.

Well Naseem you are certainly a wishful thinker. England, Holland, Denmark, France, Belgium, et al, are realizing the dangers of islamofacism. Sure, there will be civil wars in the western countries against these beasts, but in the long run you will lose Naseem. You will not be allowed to wear your heavy tent in countries like England. Oh! Yes! Naseem... Were you offended when I said there should be a pre-emptive strike against Pakistan to that out all the islamofascists in your country? I still hold the same belief and I support internment camps for terrorist sympathizers in western countries. My name says it all!!! I am pissed off with your moon-god and his messenger Mohammad (Piss be upon him). As I said when more and more people become aware of the problem, they will fight back and Islam will shrink.

Don't listen to Naseem. In her incarnation as Sybil she is now channeling Mr. Scratch. Wishful thinking.

But seriously folks, when dealing with Naseem we have to remember who and what she is about.

Naseem lives in nation entrenched in Islamic law. She lives with the constant threat of punishment if she even THINKS outside the coloring lines. She lives in a very small box, with little room to move and no windows to look outside and see what's going on in the world around her. She is embittered, powerless and afraid. She masks her feelings of entrapment and hopelessness with a superiority complex that is based on...nothing. We really needn't take her sermons literally. In her case, she embodies the concept of "misery loves company" and is probably extremely lonely right about now. We should say a prayer for her.

Islam should be proscribed and if any adherent does not abandon this political system that is wrapped up in religion, then they should be stripped of their citizenship and returned to their country of origin, whether that be Africa, India, Pakistan or Bosnia.

Ingrid Mattson is a Canadian convert to Islam (formerly an Anglican), and she is now President of the Islamic Society of North America. I think Anglicanism opens the door to Islamism (maybe it's the shared antisemitism? the "shared" link which binds the two).

I happened to see the "Vision" network's "Voice of Pakistan" -- broadcast today. The narrator was expressing, in a triumphalist tone, that the "days of performing songs, or cooking for guests" was now over. And what "multiculturalism" in Canada was *really* all about would soon become apparent (I suppose the narrator was referring to the *real* political power and ultimate dominance of Islam in Canada -- as opposed to mere token symbols of "multiculturalism" such as songs and exotic foods) -- again, the *real* multiculturalism is at hand. But do Canadians realize this? Do they have the slightest inkling? Of course not. In fact, the Anglicans eagerly embrace everything that's Islamic.

There's going to be a major conference (to be held in Canada) with respect to Islamic banking, finance, insurance, etc. I think Canada, as each day passes, loses more and more of its western identity...and increasingly adopts an Islamic identity. It's not just Europe that's lost, it's Canada also.

Canada is lost too? I take offense at that, being Canadian 'eh. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. The majority of Muslims in Canada live in the eastern provinces, Quebec and Ontario, and have you heard what they're doing in Quebec regarding the hijab controversy?

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/185923
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=ac491c78-76df-467b-ab58-2bc90e4bfb63&k=83142

It's the start, because people are getting fed up with Islam here as well. The ultimate dominance of Islam in Canada? That's laughable, and at the risk of offending Americans, I'd say you have more of a worry about that than we do. Congressmen being sworn in on the Koran?

Goodbye Eurabia, rot in hell for your treatment of the Jewish people. f*cking dhimmis..

No I can't tell the difference between Haman the son of a . and Mordechai...yes i can

i think the time is ripe when europe will again witness nazism in response to socialism/liberaism,but the nazi anger will not be directed towards jews ,instead it will be directed against the thugist ideology of islam.i think western people should help in electing the far-right parties more than the left wing/liberal self defeating political parties.socialism is a toned down version of communism which is anti-christian/jew and pro islam although socialists/communist tend to be anti-religion.in order to defeat christianity they are even colloborating with fubdamental religion of islam which has nothing in common with either socialism/communism/capitalism/liberalism or any other kind of ism.

“Europe's anti-individualist, irrational approach to life”

“European laxness and amorality”

“Europeans like sexual chaos”

“Europeans like anti-human violence”

All from joeblough’s post. Oh dear, joeblough, I thought from your posting the other day that you were introducing a bit of reason and reasonableness into the discussion. This sort of stereotyping proves otherwise. In fact, it sounds just like the complaints/excuses of Muslim zealots against the West – except that, of course, they regard “the great Satan” (guess who?) as the prime fount of all this immorality. Why on earth do you think Europe is any different from the U.S., Canada, Australia, etc. in this respect?

Islam COULD become Europes dominant religion. In the same way that Ping-Pong COULD become the dominant sport throughout the world.
In my extensive travels throughout Britain I have become aware of a greater understanding of the perils of Islam within the general (indigenous) population.
I believe that sometime in the near future we, the English, will call a halt to the spread of Islam and reverse its course. There is an overwhelming disgust with the present government, a general abhorance of political correctness and a sense of unfairness permeating all strands of English society. The upcoming council elections will act as a barometer for the future. If the BNP - the only party advocating repatriation and Britains break with the EU - gain greater support, I think it will attract some established politicians from the mainstream parties and become mainstream itself. This would be the turning point.
Should the electorate continue to support the failed doctrines of the main parties then the only thing I could recommend is teach yourself Ping-Pong.

Quick question to Sir Henry Morgan. Can you tell the difference between a Muslim, a Hindu or a Sikh?

As a general rule yes.

I was married to a South Asian woman for nearly a quarter-century. How do Hindus Sikhs and Muzbots tell the difference between Hindus Sikhs and Muzbots?

The difference isn't in looks, it's in attitudes and behaviour. Anyway, in general, the Hindus, and especially the Sikhs, would be with me on this one.

Nobody knows better than Sikhs how to deal with Muzbots.

"In my extensive travels throughout Britain I have become aware of a greater understanding of the perils of Islam within the general (indigenous) population.
I believe that sometime in the near future we, the English, will call a halt to the spread of Islam and reverse its course."

I agree. This might deserve your attention as an example of what local opposition to Muslim expansionism can achieve. It refers to plans to build a mega-mosque in Dudley, England, an industrial town near Birmingham (the mosque and "community centre" were originally insultingly to be called "Pride of Dudley"). The plans, which were recommended for approval by the local planning officers despite being contrary to planning guidelines, were thrown out today by local elected councillors after a huge groundswell of local opposition, including a petition with 16,000 names. The local Muslim “leader” had the gall to say “This is a sad day for Dudley. We are throwing democracy into the gutter.”. On the contrary, it is a victory for local democracy.

See

http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/02/23/16000-say-no-to-mosque/

http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/02/28/mosque-bid-thrown-out/

Sir Henry Morgan

To dammed right.
This is from sikhnet.com

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/by+topic/05645E9451E284248725728C0033FF4E!OpenDocument

We know what these beasties are like.
Do you remember "Mind your language"
the 2 characters Ali (the pak moslem) and Ranjit Singh (the Indian Sikh)
It may have been funny at the time, but not many do now !

Regards

AI

forsockssakes,

The "hijab" controversy in Quebec? O please. Have you read how readily the Quebec villagers granted the jihadists immediate concessions, after the jihadists paid a visit to said village? (It was laughable, how quickly the Dhimmis in Quebec succumbed... I could go on -- about how virtually everything that that village did was silly, if not downright offensive, on multiple levels.)

Then the bit about Ellison's swearing-in on a Koran -- you actually think that that's a big deal? Canada's first lawyer (his swearing-in to the Ontario bar) that was done in the 70s(?), and guess what -- it was sworn on a Koran. yeah, didn't even raise an eyebrow in Canaduh. And said "lawyer" is now one of Canada's biggest promoters of getting in Shariah law.

Just look around and see what's happening to us!!

Who are Canada's "national heroes?" Think about it! Is it Sir John A, eh?? NO!! It's a "M. Arar" who gets tortured by his fellow Syrians, and then becomes a multi-millionaire, paid for by Canadian taxpayers! And then proclaimed (universally) in the presses as a "Canadian hero," along with his wife, bedecked in black, pursued by every political party on the Left to become its next MP. Now, that's Canada!! The U.S. is still (fortunately) far, far from such Dhimmitude!

If the BNP form the next government in Britain, it will be a start to reverse the Muslim trend. Western countries like U.S.A., Australia, New Zealand, Canada need a voice like the BNP to form their next governments. Keep an eye out on the Muslims in Britian... When BNP gains strength I bet Muslims will try to infiltrate the party like they have in Canada, U.S., Holland, ect.

J.S. I was pissed off too when M Arar instantly became a multi-millionaire of the backs of the Canadian taxpayers. I am sure he will live comfortably in hot and sunny Kamloops B.C. That payout made me realize that Harper's Conservative government does not speak for non-Muslims and is Muslim friendly. We need a political party like the BNP to form Canada's next government. Like the saying goes, "Liberal, Tory the same old story...

Oh J.S. You are right, they are introducing Sharia law into the House of Commons TOMORROW!!! Oh whatever will I do?

My point, and I think the point of sites like these, dhimmiwatch and jihadwatch, is that this sort of thing is happening all over the western world. It's not something I'm going to debate with a moron over, especially if you don't even have sources to back up your information. It's something that is affecting us all, and we should be rallying together, not deciding who's going to be a dhimmi first.

Let me get this straight though so I know where you're coming from. You saw a tv show on Vision that told you that Islam is taking over Canada? Yes our immigration policies are ridiculous, and our leaders are just as clueless about Islam as yours are. In the 2001 census there were 579640 Muslims in Canada, or about 1.96% of the population. When are they taking over the country?

Oh another thing, Canada's first lawyer was sworn in in 1970? Go read a book or something!

“My point, and I think the point of sites like these, dhimmiwatch and jihadwatch, is that this sort of thing is happening all over the western world.”

True indeed, but these sites unfortunately often seem to be hijacked by Americans with a holier-than-thou attitude to the rest of the world combined with scant knowledge of what’s really going on. As you imply, it’s pointless and self-defeating, since we’re all in this together. As if we weren’t regaled with examples of crass dhimmitude from the US almost every day on this very site!

JFGR

Exactly.

If we don't all hang together then we will surely all hang separately.

forsockssakes,

I have no intentions of calling you names.

If you're capable of reading English, then obviously, I was referring to Canada's first Muslim lawyer -- that's in the context of the above post. And, the fellow's name is Mumtaz Ali, the first ever Muslim to qualify as a lawyer.

At the time I wrote the above post, I did not have the time to check out when precisely Ali achieved his law degree -- I believed (from memory) it was around 1970 (that's why I used a question mark after writing "1970 (?)" -- is that clear for you -- or do I need to spell it out more slowly?) Ali immigrated to Toronto in 1960. According to his website, he completed his bar exam in 1962, and (from his website): "He was the first immigrant from India/Pakistan in Canada to have taken his legal oath on the Holy Qur'an, as opposed to the Bible." Ok? got that?

Speaking of projection, your stats claim of 1.96 percent -- where do you get this?? Sources??

Next, with respect to your claim about "taking over the country" -- just a reminder, in the event you've forgotten -- that's your quote, not mine. And that is what Muslims state -- that the old form of "multiculturalism" (that's of serving foods or entertaining "guests") is now over. They fully intend to flex their muscles in a political sense. This is what they are stating -- whether or not you wish to believe them, well, -- that's your problem, not mine.

On the more substantive issues, I certainly don't have much faith in the ability of Canada to withstand Islamification -- even less so when I read posts such as yours. You have failed to address the pathetic retreat Canadians typically demonstrate when confronted by aggressive Muslims. In Quebec, they cave...And, as I mentioned in my first post, this isn't just a problem to be found in Europe -- it's here in Canada also.

To JFGR:

Point taken. That comment was a somewhat over the top.

But I do get the distinct impression, from their books, movies and what little time I've spent there that the continentals are somewhat further gone, considered in the aggregate than the Americans, or the Australians for that matter.

Most particularly from their politics though, which seem to me to be deeply morally inverted. More socialist, more anarchic, and more nihilist all at the same time -- and more inclined to defend the bad from the good, rather than vice versa.

And it is undeniable that European politics is far more hostile towards substantive individual freedom than American politics, and has been since America's founding.

It was, after all, their grandparents that gave us, Nazism, Fascism, Freudianism and communism. Quite a track record for one century. I haven't seen convincing evidence that the culture of the continent ever fully recovered from all that.

But that said, you're right. My comment was crude and overstated.

Grumpy hangover I suppose.

Sorry about that.

PS. BTW I hadn't thought that I needed to explicitly state that I was talking about the dark side of Europe, and Europe's cultural atmosphere, not about all the Europeans.

In any case if I've given offence, particularly to the Europeans online here, I sincerely apologize.

That refee that remove that 11 year old muslim girl girl from the team is in touble with the World Cup Fed. for siteing than rule that doesnot exist. There
is no ruleing that ban all headgear unless it than very hard material or have spike like the WWI Germany army helmet which can clearly be use to injury than opposeing player. The headscarf is make out of soft material with no spikes so it is allow.
The World Cup Fed. allow plastic knee and elfbow pad
to be worm by player without no spikes.

The Muslim in my area will have than Islamist School
that will teach math,science and other academical subject that will excee state standard.

muslims are taking over europe thanks to the UK and USA for handing them christian lands on a plate like bosnia kosovo

and its the uk and usa who want turkey to join EU if usa and uk get its wish and turkey does join eu thne trust me it wont be 35 years robert it will be 5 or 10 years they take over

Posted by: Greek Gurl at March 3, 2007 03:03 PM

More immigrants = more votes. This is the simple math of traitor politicians. The reality is that elected politicians are selling out USA and Europe to whoever it takes for cheap votes.

.. and here is an example: http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty238.htm

joeblough,

Thanks for your gracious apology.

“But I do get the distinct impression, … that the continentals are somewhat further gone, considered in the aggregate than the Americans, or the Australians for that matter.”

You may well be right there, unfortunately, but it is difficult to be categorical, because there are (some) Americans, even in the higher echelons of government, who are far more “dhimmi” than (some) Europeans. The picture is confused at the moment, because, as some posters have noted, there are hopeful signs of increasing awareness of and resistance to Islamic ideology in Europe today, even on the left.

“their [European] politics … seem to me to be deeply morally inverted. More socialist, more anarchic, and more nihilist all at the same time -- and more inclined to defend the bad from the good, rather than vice versa. “

I’m afraid I can’t agree with this. After all, “socialism” (presumably in the sense of social democracy rather than communism) is often criticised for being too enamoured with planning and regulation, and was originally well-meaning enough, in that it was an attempt to increase social justice, surely not an evil aim in itself. (As a non-socialist, I would say that it was misguided, and that it has certainly run out of steam.) I cannot understand what you mean by “anarchic” and “nihilistic” here, at least in a contemporary context.

“It was, after all, their grandparents that gave us, Nazism, Fascism, Freudianism and communism.”

True, and shameful enough (at least as regards Nazism, Fascism and communism), but you couldn’t seriously argue that these are relevant today – look at Germany, for example, which has only too successfully exorcized the ghost of Nazism. And Britain, of course, was scarcely touched by all these ideologies – mainstream socialism (i.e. labourism) in the UK has always been resolutely democratic. The problem as I see it today is another ideology – political correctness and multi-culturalism. Oh, and pussyfooting about Islam, of course. And even the US has had its periods of extremism – look at the macarthyist witch-hunts of the 1940s and 1950s, for example.

The problem is not (strictly speaking) about immigration, per se. Canada and the United States have been built by immigrants. Immigrants have made huge, enormous contributions. IMMIGRANTS are NOT the problem.

The problem is when immigrants arrive and become intent not on adopting (or adjusting) to a new culture, but rather they decide to have the host country change so as to better suit them (thus insisting upon Islamic schools, teaching of Arabic, prayer rooms, demanding special dispensations for their beliefs, etc., etc.) Thus, it's when immigrants act less as new Canadians, and more like foreign invaders -- this is when problems arise.

Recently, in Canada, there have also been a number of disturbing allegations with what's been dubbed "ethno-politics" within the Liberal Party. One of the allegations is that a portion of Canada's anti-terrorism legislation (two provisions) has been struck down -- thanks to ethnic politics. (This has to do with Air India -- one of the accused was able to walk away, a free man, because he refused to give evidence. One of the provisions of the anti-terror legislation would have forced people to give evidence before a judge.) Another allegation is about Dion (as leader of the Liberal Party) and how he became leader. Muslims claim they put Dion into power.

In today's National Post a "letter to the editor" was published, which reads, in part, as follows: "Among the most burnished of Liberal pieties, however, has been a commitment to 'the politics of difference,' not the de facto multiculturalism of which Canadians are justly proud, but the bureaucratically engineered variant that awards and impedes, patronizes and forsakes on the basis of group membership." The author of the letter goes on to note voices of opposition even within the Liberal party and cites those opposed to the "party's race-based recruitment techniques as divisive and anti-democratic, and as betraying a vision of Canada as little more than a convenient port of call for a collection of diaspora communities more deeply committed elsewhere."

But, then, playing to ethnic interests is not particularly "new" for the Liberal Party. I recall that it was Jean Chretien who personally intervened on behalf of a certain fellow named Khadr -- thanks to Chretien, Khadr was released, freed, from a Pakistani jail. The Khadr family is now known as Canada's "terrorist family." The father was alleged to have been a personal acquaintance of bin Laden's and an al-Qaeda financier. (It's always difficult to speculate, but one must wonder what would have happened had such criminals been kept behind bars...as opposed to being freed as a consequence of a Liberal Prime Minister pulling strings on behalf of his "good" Pakistani "friends.") Ditto may also soon be said with respect to the over-turning of Canada's anti-terrorism legislation.

"the ultimate dominance of Islam in Canada" What's the difference between that and taking over as I put it?

1.96%, that's from Stats Canada, look it up. They must be a really strong 2% hey?

Anglicans are going to become Catholics not Muslims. I think you just make up what you want to believe.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21248891-601,00.html

Oh you're taking the high ground by not calling names lol. What's Canaduh? You're a wingnut and I've expended enough energy for your bs. I'll leave you to your mindless rants.

I would suggest before claiming the high ground or calling others "wing-nuts" that you go look in a mirror. You're projecting, again.

The census data that you're using is based on a 2001 census. That's 6 years ago. Canada has -- yearly -- 30,000 "refugees" entering Canada. Obviously, not all will be Muslims.

You do seem to be in a state of denial, and very uncomfortable when presented with evidence of what is taking place in Canada. I think that's quite unfortunate.

I believe that Canada is vulnerable on a number of levels -- not the least of which is our relatively small population base. Thus, it doesn't take much to effect a demographic shift. Again, in terms of refugee numbers, it would be similar to the United States accepting 300,000 refugees per year.

But, of course, for you -- just continue to dream on -- stick your head in the sand -- pretend that every thing's "wonderful." And, now, I believe I have spent enough time on you and your preposterous assertions that there's nothing wrong!! LOL -- that's "nothing wrong" so long as you're a supporter of Khadr, the Liberals, et al.

To JFGR:

I rather doubt that our views of the realities on the ground are radically divergent.

Re. "More socialist, more anarchic, and more nihilist all at the same time".

This is just a list. I don't think that European politics is perfectly monolithic. I do think that these factors are all toxic in one way or another that contributes to the problem.

I also think that they all share a common disregard for the rights of the individual. Socialists want to take them away, anarchists want to leave them unprotected, and the nihilists actively want to destroy them (to the extent that they care at all).

I am speaking as much of the public in general here as of the governing class per se. There seem to be more anti-individualist influences cooperating as it were against freedom and rights.

Which I do think is a pro-islamist influence in the long run.

Re."Nazism, Fascism, Freudianism and communism".

We don't really disagree here, or at least I don't think so.

I see the multi-culturalism and such as a sort of residue of the past. The overt ideologies of the 20th century are partly discredited, although it seems to me that communism and socialism are still alive and kicking.

But the underlying ideas dont seem very different to me.

Nazism, communism, and socialism, all promote the collective above the individual. Multi-culturalism says that individuals have to be judged as members of their collective, and not by some universal standard. But the only real difference is that the earlier ideologies wanted one collectivist standard for the nation whereas the multi-culti's want several. But they all agree that the individual is to be regarded as a piece of the collective, not as a primary value.

Freudianism is a horse of a different color, but there is a connection. The free judgement of the individual is deprecated as less important than the automatic squirtings and twitchings and thrashings of the id and the super-ego. Again, the individual identity (the ego) is not expected or intended to be in the driver's seat. (I know, don't even bother to say it, this is simplistic).

While I'm at it, I'll throw in Jungianism as a similarly irrationalist doctrine. In fact, Mr. Jung was initially at least, well disposed toward the Nazis -- collective unconcious and all that.

Anyway, thanks for your consideration.

DebV,

Thank you for the support.

I find it interesting that people such as that "forsocksakes" lifts phrases from what I write, completely out of context, so as to present a straw-man argument. Thus, this person will misconstrue (deliberately? perniciously?) what is written. Thus, if one writes about Canada's first lawyer to swear on the Quran, the poster will speak as if I were referring to "Canada's first lawyer" -- while neglecting to mention I was obviously referring to Canada's first Muslim lawyer. Or to give another example, the poster (this person strikes me as a deceitful liar, btw) takes out of context the phrase: "the ultimate dominance of Islam in Canada" and presents this as if I were speaking about a Muslim "take-over." In fact, I have NOT spoken about a "Muslim take-over" -- I was repeating what MUSLIMS themselves speak about -- which is their desire to see Canada ultimately under Muslim domination. This is what any number of Muslims say. Not that long ago there was a "get to know Islam" week at the local university -- the slogan the Muslims used? It was this -- "ISLAM: WORLD DOMINATION." That was their slogan. They make no attempts to hide their intentions. It should be very clear to everyone. It's not a mystery.

Another point (although I'm sure you're aware of this), it takes two to tango. This is not just a "Muslim-only" problem -- the problem is as much about how non-Muslims (World-wide, I suppose) accommodate, placate, appease and give-in to virtually all demands made by Muslims. It is actually a rarity to find people standing against what they demand. I was actually very surprised that Ontario did not approve of Sharia law being introduced. I have to laugh, that's about the only "accomplishment" thus far. Woo hoo!!

If there ever were a terrorist attack in Canada, with hundreds dead and millions and millions of dollars in damage, I suspect ol' "forsocksakes" would immediately grab his calculator and exclaim: "But there's absolutely nothing to worry about !! I have done the calculations, and based on my figures and the 2001 Canadian census, the 12 suicide bombers comprise a mere 0.0000006 percent of Canada's Muslim population!!" And that fly in your soup, sir? "Again, NOTHING to worry about -- based on my extensive calculations, and proportionate ratios, the fly's portion (in terms of mass) comprises a mere 0.0000006 percent of said liquid soup portion -- besides, it adds to my protein intake!! Nothing to worry about!! Ja!"

1,000 politically incorrect, exhausted but keen Eastern Europeans are arriving by coach in wonderful old Londinium every day. Most will stay and unlike the useless muzzies, there are reports of them clubbing together to buy houses, so they are investing and will be wealthier in the long run.

No way can the demographic jihad keep up with half a million Christian immigrants a year, so we're OK. I'm a bit worried about France, although the rate of apostasy amongst muslims, particularly from Algerian backgrounds, is heartening.

There were several muslim doubters responding to the Times article. The distasteful truth in this scanned crumbled memo: http://hinduunity.org/bewaregirls.htm

Js. I never claimed the high ground that's what you did. My first reaction to your lawyer statement was because of the way you worded it. This is what you said.

"Canada's first lawyer (his swearing-in to the Ontario bar) that was done in the 70s(?), and guess what -- it was sworn on a Koran."

Obviously you need to proofread what you are intending to say. I never said that nothing was wrong with Canada, go back and actually read my posts. This is a western issue, I just took offence when you said Canada is lost. You go right ahead and lie down for the Moslems, I am a proud Canadian, and I will not submit!!! So sorry if that bothers you.

DebV, I agree, only I said 579640, pretty close to 600k isn't it? How recent was that? Mine was from 2001 so it's bound to change. Still roughly 2% do the math.

A deceitful liar JS? There you go again, not resorting to name calling.

Wow, that last post of yours was incredibly stupid and I can't believe I'm justifying it by writing back. I realize the problem with Islam, I think we should send them all back. My grandfather fought in the second world war, and I think he'd be ashamed of who we've allowed in under tolerance and politically correctness.

Continue to make up whatever bs about me you want js. Peace, God (the real one) bless!