A cautionary tale that virtually no one is heeding.
By Ruth King in Mideast Outpost:
It looks increasingly probable that Kosovo will gain its independence from Serbia, an outcome that should be of serious concern to Israel and its supporters. Ariel Sharon, to his credit, heard the alarm bells during the American bombing of Serbia in 1999, when he warned American Jewish leaders: "If Israel supports the type of action that's going on in Kosovo, it risks becoming the next victim. Brutal intervention must not be legitimized as a way to try to impose a solution in regional conflicts." And, it is no coincidence, as journalist Julia Gorin reminds us, that during the bombing of Serbia on behalf of Moslem Albanians in 1999 Saudi Prince Khaled Bin Sultan, commander of the allied Saudi troops during the first Gulf War, called on the US to do the same against Israel on behalf of Palestinians.The fate of Jews and Serbs, which has intersected in the past, is doing so again. The jihadist effort to expunge Jews from Palestine mirrors the Moslem goal of incorporating Kosovo into a “greater Moslem Albania” while expelling Christian Serbs.
When Serbia became independent of Byzantine rule in the 12th century, its economic, cultural, social and religious institutions were among the most advanced in Europe. Serbia functioned as a bridge between Greco-Byzantine civilization and the developing Western Renaissance. The center of the Serbian Orthodox Church was in Kosovo where churches, monasteries and monastic communities were established. A form of census in 1330, the “Decani Charter,” detailed the list of chartered villages and households, of which only two percent were Albanian.
The Ottomans invaded Serbia in 1389 and consolidated their rule in 1459, propelling major parts of the Balkan peninsula and adjacent southeast Europe into a Koran-dictated Dark Ages. While a significant proportion of Serbian and Croatian nobility converted to Islam to escape the harsh conditions imposed on non-Moslems, most Serbian peasants clung to their Christian faith. Historian G. Richard Jansen reports: “Serbs and Jews became dhimmis subject to the dhimma or protection offered to Christians and Jews in newly Islamized lands in exchange for their lives.Similarly Bat Ye’or, in Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide writes: “For the Orthodox Serbs… this same period [the centuries of Moslem rule] is considered one of massacre, pillage, slavery, deportation, and the exile of Christian populations. In their eyes it was a regime which found its justification in the usurpation of their land and denial of their rights....In their wars of emancipation-and, later, of liberation—the Orthodox Serbs found that their bitterest adversaries were their Muslim compatriots attached to their religious privileges and their domination over the humiliated Christians.”
In spite of forced migrations and oppression, like their Jewish counterparts, and unlike other Balkan nations, Serbs maintained their cultural and religious ties to their faith and shrines in Kosovo which, reinforcing the parallel, they called their Jerusalem. It was the Serbs who first mounted, in 1804 and 1813, insurgencies which spread through the region, culminating in the 1912 Balkan War which essentially eliminated the Ottomans from the Balkans.
Early in the twentieth century Serbian Christians were roughly two-thirds of the population of Kosovo, Moslem Albanians one-third. During World War I (triggered by the assassination in Serbia of the Austrian arch-duke) Serbs held off the Austrians for more than a year, before they were overwhelmed. Almost 800,000 Serbs perished, a fourth of the population. With full Serb support, the peace treaties of 1919-1920 established a state with the name "The Kingdom of Slovenians, Croats and Serbs." The awkward name was shortly changed to Yugoslavia with Kosovo an integral part of Serbia. At roughly the same time, the Balfour Declaration promised the Jews a restored homeland in Palestine which included what became the present day kingdom of Jordan.
From then on Kosovo’s population underwent sharp population shifts. During World War II, when Yugoslav Serbs refused to join a Nazi “community of nations,” an angry Hitler ordered the destruction of Yugoslavia. Following the Yugoslav army’s capitulation in 1941, Serbia was divided by the Nazis between the Italians and the Bulgarians, who encouraged armed gangs of pro-Nazi ethnic Albanians to attack the Serbs and to torch, destroy and desecrate ancient churches and shrines. The Moslem Albanians, who surprised their mentors with their barbarity and zeal for atrocities, were rewarded when parts of Kosovo, Montenegro and Macedonia were annexed to “Greater Albania.”
In 1943 the Nazis formed the 21st SS "Skanderbeg" division of Moslem Albanian volunteers to perform an “ethnic cleansing” (of Jews and Serbs) in Yugoslavia. Tens of thousands of Serbs were sent to a Croatian death camp and as noted by Raul Hilberg in The Destruction of the European Jews (1961) Skanderbeg played a major role in the Holocaust, rounding up Jews who were subsequently sent to Bergen-Belsen and various death camps. A Kosovar Moslem, Bedri Pejani, was appointed by the Nazis to rule occupied Kosovo. He promptly announced a plan to create a Great Islamic State in the region with the blessings of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el Husseini. The Grand Mufti, who had led a jihad in Palestine, escaped capture by fleeing to German-occupied Europe where, from Sarajevo he urged the Nazis not to flag in their destruction of the Jews. Needless to say the Serbian Christian population dwindled under this onslaught and the proportion of Albanian Moslems surged. By the end of World War II, Yugoslav deaths totaled more than a million, roughly half of them Serbs.
Although the province was restored to Yugoslavia after the war, the population balance in Kosovo did not shift in favor of Serbia. Tito, aiming for leadership of a wider Balkan alliance, did not allow Serbs who fled from their homes during the war to return. He did not enforce border controls and many thousands of Albanians infiltrated through the porous borders. (Like the Moslems in areas adjacent to Palestine in the interwar years, they were attracted by the superior economic conditions.) Seeking to pacify the restive Moslems, in 1974 Tito offered the province political, cultural, economic and juridical “autonomy,” along with large subsidies for agricultural and other projects, which merely had the effect of prompting a further influx of Moslems from across the border. For example, a new university was established in Pristina, with faculty from the University of Belgrade commuting by air.
All this did not pacify the restive Moslems who as early as 1960 demanded independence for Kosovo. There were intermittent riots which escalated and an emergent Kosovo Liberation Army gave as its stated goal “an ethnic greater Albania” to include portions of Macedonia and Montenegro, parts of southern Serbia and an “ethnically pure” (read Moslem-only) Kosovo.
In 1979 Menachem Begin, hectored by Jimmy Carter whose predilection for the Arab cause is well known, also offered the rioting Arabs of Judea and Samaria “autonomy” with the same disastrous results. As Henry Kissinger has noted, “autonomy” is a euphemism for independence.
Initially, the media reported the situation in Kosovo fairly. For example, in July 1982 The New York Times noted: "Serbs have been harassed by Albanians and have packed up and left the region. The Albanian nationalists have a two-point platform, first to establish what they call an ethnically clean Albanian republic and then to merge with Albania for a greater Albania. Some 57,000 Serbs have left Kosovo in the last decade.” Five years later, in 1987, the Times was still reporting the persecution of Serbs within Kosovo. "Slavic Orthodox churches have been attacked, wells poisoned, crops burned, Slavic boys knifed. Young Albanians have been told to rape Serbian girls…. Officials in Belgrade view the ethnic Albanian challenge as imperiling the foundations of the multinational experiment called federal Yugoslavia….Ethnic Albanians already control almost every phase of life in the autonomous province of Kosovo, including the police, judiciary, civil service, schools, and factories."
Milosevic rose to power with the promise of reversing this intolerable situation, restoring peace and Yugoslav control in Kosovo. But now international perception of the crisis turned against Serbia as Milosevic abolished the “autonomy” of Kosovo in 1989. There were arrests and house searches of Kosovar Albanians. And then the media went into a frenzy of accusations against the Serbs, much as it has against Israel and with similar distortions. The media depicted the armed, violent and jihadist Moslem Albanians as “unarmed civilians” despite the fact they called themselves an army and perpetrated assaults, bombings, murder of civilians and targeted assassinations of Albanians loyal to Serbia. President Clinton outrageously referred to a “holocaust” perpetrated by Serbia and compared the Moslems of Kosovo to the Jews—this, even though the Serbs had behaved well toward the Jews during the real Holocaust and Clinton himself was pressing Israel’s Jews to accept the “peace partnership” of Arafat, a brutal terrorist far worse than Milosevic, admittedly a dictator and a Communist thug.
The right was as vehement as the left in demanding action. In September 1998 such luminaries of the right as John Bolton, Jeane Kirkpatrick, William Kristol and Paul Wolfowitz joined such far leftists as Morton Halperin in a petition to President Clinton demanding that he not only stop “the carnage in Kosovo” but use “massive Western pressure” to obtain “a new political status for Kosovo.”
In March of 1999, the United States drew up a document, the “Rambouillet Agreement” which was, as Madeleine Albright boasted later, an absolute ultimatum to Serbia. It was a demand for Serbia to withdraw from Kosovo in favor of a NATO occupying force, something that no sovereign nation could or should accept. Incredibly, as The New York Times of April 8, 1999 reported, Milosevic accepted the entire package with the exception of NATO occupation of Yugoslavia itself. He wanted the troops to be under UN command. Dan Goure, then Deputy Director of the Center for Security and International Studies and a Pentagon official under the first President Bush said, "Rambouillet was not a negotiation, it was a setup, a lynch party." All this was in direct contravention of previously stated U.S. policy which declared that no national minority had the right to form a new state on other state territories…a policy which still guides the U.S. government in respect to recognizing Taiwan’s independence.
An interesting provision of the so-called “negotiations” demanded that the Serb army and police forces withdraw and a new Kosovar police force be formed to include members of the Kosovo Liberation Party, which was supposed to disarm. Sound familiar?
What happened subsequently is better known. In 1999 in concert with NATO, the Clinton administration commenced a 78 day bombing of Serbia. This action met with almost no objection in the West, hailed not only by liberal politicians and the media but by Margaret Thatcher, The Wall Street Journal and assorted conservative pundits and politicians.
To sum up: the demand for Kosovo's independence led to KLA terrorism which led to repression and expulsion of Albanians by Serbian military and police, which led to the assault by the United States and NATO. While the brutality of the Milosevic regime was indeed a complicating factor, he is long gone, but the KLA continues its assault on Serbs, on their churches, priests, homes, even on civilians sitting in cafes, this under the nose of the U.S. and UN troops which have now occupied Kosovo for eight years. Never mind that the State Department in 1998 listed the KLA as a terrorist organization, indicating (as Interpol’s assistant director for Criminal Intelligence Ralph Mutschke reminded Congress in December 2000) “that it was financing its operations with money from the international heroin trade and loans from Islamic countries and individuals, among them allegedly Osama bin Laden.”
Media and politicians alike, vastly indignant over Milosevic’s behavior, turn a blind eye. Speaking of Kosovo’s major city Pristina, where 40,000 Serbs lived before the UN took over (and where only 100 live now) Senator Joseph Biden, presidential aspirant and Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, declared proudly that Kosovo was a “victory for Moslem democracy” and “Pristina is one of the rare Moslem cities in the world where the U.S. is not only respected but adored.” (Indeed there is a street named for Madeleine Albright, who played an especially scurvy role in ramping up pressure against the Serbs). Similarly the media takes notice of Kosovo only to berate the Serbs for failing to acquiesce speedily and gracefully to the loss of their “Jerusalem.”
Western leaders are blind to the danger to themselves in the principle they are establishing, namely that recent illegal immigrants from another state have the right to declare independence over territory long recognized as part of a different sovereign state whose inhabitants they have ruthlessly forced to flee.
The United States, the EU and the vast majority of UN member states, now pushing strongly to establish Kosovo’s independence from Serbia, are also establishing a terrible precedent in flouting the very international law under which the UN’s occupation of Kosovo rests. UN Security Council Resolution 1244, drafted to end the NATO bombing, specifically reaffirmed that Kosovo belongs to Serbia. Detaching Kosovo from Serbia against Serbia’s will is to violate the UN Charter. Serbian President Vojislav Kostunica reports that “when we mention the need for legality, some of these officials [UN, EU, U.S.] become exasperated, even agitated. They respond with various comments to the effect that we should not be bound by ’mere’ legality.” (The UN’s ambassador to the “negotiations” with President Kostunica is former Finnish president Martii Ahtisaari, a close associate of George Soros and the openly pro-Albanian Soros-funded International Crisis Group.)
Finally, there is an additional peril for the West here. The “two state solution” which aims to strip Israel of its ancient Jewish heartland, and the demand for Serbia to surrender Kosovo, the locus of its Serbian Orthodox faith, both advance the cause of resurgent Islam and worldwide jihad. To quote Bat Ye’or again: “In 1991, before the conflict erupted, the English edition of [Moslem Bosnian President] Alija Izetbegovic's Islamic Declaration (1970) specifically stated: ‘There can be neither peace nor coexistence between Arabia, the cradle of Islam and non-Islamic social and political institutions.’" And he concluded: “The Islamic movement must, and can, take over power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non-Islamic power, but also build up a new Islamic one.”
In Congressional testimony, our intelligence agencies have now disclosed that there are 16 terror training camps and arms depots in Kosovo. Julia Gorin warns: “Even conservatives, who support the war on terror and the war in Iraq, have a blind spot and an apathy when it comes to the Balkans, as well as to the fact that a lot of the terrorist attacks in Europe and elsewhere are connected to the Balkans.” Gorin notes wryly that when America needs to burnish its credentials among Moslems, it gloats about intervention on behalf of Moslems in Bosnia and Kosovo – and, of course, demands a solution to the “Palestine” problem. While Israel is not threatened with bombing by US/NATO forces, economic sanctions and threats will be enough to squeeze Israel into surrender.
Statesmen, commentators and pundits who urge solutions and negotiations both in Serbia and "Palestine" brush all historical claims off the table. They simply ignore the geographical facts of the Palestine Mandate where the Hashemites obtained over 82% of the land assigned as the Jewish National Home. They ignore the ancient and religious ties of the Jewish people to Palestine. They ignore the migrations of Arabs to Jewish towns in what Mark Twain called "The Wasteland". They ignore the strategic danger of a jihadist state in Palestine. With respect to Serbia, the “solution groupies” show the same disregard for historical and religious ties and sovereignty; the same indifference to the enforced migrations and immigrations which created an ethnic Albanian majority in Kosovo; and the same blindness to the dangers of a jihadist “greater Albania” anxious to incorporate Kosovo into a Balkan caliphate.
And so Kosovo may become independent. Welcome to a new Moslem jihadist state, which will no doubt eagerly await the exchange of ambassadors with a jihadist Moslem state in Judea and Samaria.
Very good article with my grate thanks to all of you at jw/dw for trying to win this battle. But, after all, its ovbious that albanian jihad over slavic christians eventually payoff, like everywhere else in the world.
Only, I can bet Morgaane is now braking its nails over keyboard reposting NGO findings over Serbian historic antisemitism.
It's the unbelievably persistent, mindless, ill-informed actions of almost all the western governments which have been instrumental in reviving the Islamic camp and Jihad,especially in the last 70 years.
The action against the Serbs will be judged by history as insane if not suicidal.
Here's a link to a site which gives the other, and more credible side of the Serbian story, usually buried alive by the msm:
http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/kosovo.htm
Good article, except for the part about Milosevic. His "brutal actions" were largely propaganda ploys and hoaxes. I suppose Mrs. King had to insert a dose of political correctness to get this published.
Just to clear up things: the "propaganda hoaxes" were the stories appearing in the western press of how Milosevic supposedly ordered "brutal actions".
Svemirko:
I had not planned to comment on this thread as I am very busy, and then I noticed your completely unprovoked ad hominem attack. Therefore, AT YOUR REQUEST, I will respond.
See following posts, but just one note in this one. Sharon's and probably Israel's sudden support of Serbia in 1999 -- after Israel sent the Mossad into Serbia to protect Jews in 1991-1992, and PRIOR to the most recent CURRENT (not historic) burgeoning of hateful anti-Semitism in Serbia -- is based not on any sense of fairness but a perceived threat to its statehood based on Serbia's assertion of ETHNIC rights. The State of Israel is a state based not on religion but on ethnicity, and Israel now perceives the Serbia's potential loss of territory based on an arguement of ethnic traditional lands a threat to Israel's own argument.
But that is NOT the argument being made from the other side. The argument being made by Bosnians, Croats, Albanians and others -- Muslim, Catholic and even Orthodox -- is that they want freedom from the Serbs because they engaged in mass murder, attempted genocide, mass rape, mass deportation, and torture in order to force a SERB nationalist agenda among all the ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia.
The difference is that Israel, though having the bomb since the 1960s, has never tried to genocide anybody. The State of Israel was formed by international agreement AFTER an attempted genocide of the Jewish people, and there are 1.1 million Arabs living in Israel who have NO DESIRE whatsoever to leave and who form no terrorist threat inside the country.
The false conflation of Albanian Sufism with the Wahhabis that besiege them -- Wahhabis who have declared them apostates and placed them under death fatawa -- is a lie almost as bad in itself as the debased violence to which Serb lust for power devolved in the 1990s.
Thank you, Svemirko, for your latest invitation to me to respond. Every time you place an ad hominem, lying attack on me on these boards, I will be pleased to respond.
For general reference for those on this comment area. This timeline of the Balkans Wars of the 1990s, while long, is the shortest complete outline of the conflict I have found. I apologize for its length, but it is something perhaps we should all be aware of. In itself it is a chronicle that makes clear the bad actions of a great many groups, but it is also clear who the aggressors were here and what actually happened.
June 1989
Serbs gather at the site of the Battle of Kosovo to commemorate its 600th anniversary. President Slobodan Milosevic, recently elected, uses the occasion to promote Serbian nationalism and strip Kosovo of all autonomy.
Jan. 1990
The Yugoslav Communist Party splits along ethnic lines
Deadly riots in Kosovo result in Yugoslav Army intervention.
Feb. 1990
Curfew imposed in Kosovo. Yugoslav troops deployed.
Multi-party system adopted in Bosnia-Herzegovina republic.
Apr. 1990
A pro-independence coalition wins in Slovenia.
May 1990
HDZ Party (Croatian Democratic Union) wins elections against the communists. HDZ leader, Franjo Tudjman, advocates a Yugoslav confederation of sovereign states.
June 1990
Serbia referendum in opposition to ethnic autonomy for Kosovo and Vojvodina and in favor of retaining one-party state.
HDZ proposes that Constitution in Croatia be amended to allow for a confederated system of sovereign states.
July 1990
Albanian delegates of the parliament of Kosovo declare independence from Yugoslavia. Belgrade responds by banning the Kosovo shadow government led by Ibrahim Rugova and shutting down or taking over local media.
The Slovenian legislature declares Slovenia a sovereign state.
The League of Communists of Serbia and the Socialist Alliance of the Working People of Serbia mere to become the Socialist Party of Serbia. Slobodan Milosevic is elected President by the delegates in a landslide.
Croatia adopts the proposed amendments to the Constitution which replace the flag and declare that Croatia would no longer be a socialist republic.
The Bosnian legislature adopts constitutional amendments declaring Bosnia-Herzegovina a democratic state with equality for all its ethnic groups.
Aug. 1990 ... As Croatia's move towards independence seems likely, ethnic Serbs in the Krajina area of Croatia argue for autonomy from Croatia. Serbs declare the Serbian National Council as the authority for Serbs in Croatia.
Oct. 1990 ... The Serbian National Council proclaims autonomy for Krajina.
Nov. 1990 ... A Macedonian party advocating a confederation of sovereign states comes to power in the first multi-party elections.
Bosnia-Herzegovina holds its first multi-party elections. Nationalistic parties win.
Dec. 1990 ... Milosevic wins the presidency of Yugoslavia. Ethnic Albanians boycott the elections.
The new Croatian Constitution recognizes ethnic Serbs as a minority, but does not grant rights to minority groups.
In a plebiscite in Slovenia, nearly 90% of voters favor sovereignty.
Jan. 1991 ... Macedonia elects a new President and adopts pro-sovereignty legislation. Slovenia announces that it will start legislative procedures towards independence.
Feb. 1991 ... Tensions increase in Croatian territories of Slavonia and Baranja where there are large numbers of ethnic Serb residents. The Serbian National Council declares that Krajina will remain in Yugoslavia should Croatia secede.
Mar. 1991 ... Milosevic orders a crackdown on opposition protests in Serbia.
Krajina Serbs declare autonomy from Croatia and are recognized by Milosevic. Armed conflict underway between ethnic Croats and ethnic Serbs in Croatia.
Serbia assumes authority over the dissolved Kosovo legislature.
The European Community, in response to the increased tensions in Yugoslavia, declares that it supports diplomacy and political dialogue over force and promotes unity and democracy in Yugoslavia.
Apr. 1991 ... Bosnian Serbs begin a war in a quest for their own ethnically pure republic. At a meeting of the six Presidents of Yugoslav republics, they agree that each republic should hold referendums on confederation or federation.
May 1991 ... Serbs refuse to accept a Croat president under the terms of Yugoslavia's rotating presidency. Referendum on separation of Croatia held. Over 90% votes for sovereignty and independence. Krajina Serbs boycott the referendum.
June 1991 ... Macedonia and Bosnia-Herzegovina unsuccessfully propose a Yugoslav commonwealth of sovereign republics. Slovenia and Croatia declare independence from Yugoslavia. Krajina, a region with a large number of ethnic Serbs, declares independence from Croatia and has backing of Yugoslav People's Army. Yugoslav army tanks and helicopters attack Slovenia. After the Slovenian militia captures 2,000 soldiers, it trades their release for the right to control its own borders. The war in Slovenia lasts a total of a week. Fighting between Serbian and Croatian militias is more severe, especially in Krajina, Baraja, and Slavonia. The U.S. states support for unity and democracy of Yugoslavia and sovereignty determined through mutual agreement rather than unilateral secession. In light of the situation, the European Community freezes economic assistance to Yugoslavia.
July 1991 ... Slovenian protests in favor of independence.
Aug. 1991 ... The Yugoslav army calls off intervention in Slovenia's independence.
Meanwhile, Yugoslav tanks and aircraft drive refugees from Vukovar and Dubrovnik. Fighting escalates. First international monitors arrive in Croatia.
Sept. 1991 ... The UN Security Council enacts an arms embargo against the former Yugoslav republics and an economic embargo on Serbia and Montenegro.
The European Community hosts a Conference on Yugoslavia in the Hague. Ceasefire between Serbia and Croatia signed. In spite of this, fighting continues.
In a referendum in Kosovo, ethnic Albanians vote for independence.
Oct. 1991 ... Croat and Muslim parties in Bosnia unite against Bosnian Serbs and plan for a referendum on the future of Bosnia-Herzegovina. President of Croatia Franjo Tudjman and President of Serbia Slobodan Milosevic again sign a cease-fire. However Yugoslav Army remains in Croatia. The Conference on Yugoslavia reconvenes in the Hague. Co-Chairman Lord Carrington submits a proposal which supports independence and recognition for former republics and protection of rights of ethnic minorities. Serbia refuses to agree to the proposal even after changes are made, on the grounds that it does not support the unity of Yugoslavia. Albania's parliament recognizes Kosovo as an independent republic.
The Bosnian Muslim government declares itself a sovereign state.
Nov. 1991 ... 90% of Bosnian Serbs vote to remain within Yugoslavia.
Macedonian legislature proposes new Constitution declaring Macedonia sovereign and independent.
Dec. 1991 ... Germany recognizes Croatia and Slovenia. European Community decides not to apply economic sanctions to Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, Slovenia or Croatia. UN Special Envoy Vance's peace plan would provide UN peacekeepers to Eastern Slavonia, Western Slavonia, and Krajina following a ceasefire and withdrawal of troops and disbanding of irregulars, but offers no specific solutions to the ethnic conflict. The Bosnian Serbs adopt a Resolution to form the Serbian Republic (Republika Srpska) of Bosnia- Herzegovina within the framework of Yugoslavia. Ethnic Serbs in Krajina, Slavonia, Baranja and West Srem declare their own republic.
Jan. 1992 ... UN adopts resolution to send monitors and ultimately peacekeepers. 27 more countries and European Union recognize Croatia as an independent sovereign state. Temporary ceasefire in Croatia.
Mar. 1992 ... Bosnia votes for independence in spite of most Bosnian Serbs voting against secession. Bosnian Serbs set up their own Parliament and local militias. The fighting in Croatia expands to Bosnia.
Apr. 1992 ... The United States recognizes Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina as independent sovereign states. Bosnian Serb forces start to drive Muslims out of small villages; many of these refugees flee to the larger Bosnian cities of Zepa, Srebrenica, Tuzla and Sarajevo. Siege of Sarajevo begins.
May 1992 ... Croatia accepted as a full member in the United Nations.
International sanctions against Serbia and Montenegro, the two remaining republics of Yugoslavia. Ethnic Albanian writer Ibrahim Rugova is elected president of Kosovo in an election unsanctioned by the Yugoslav government.
June 1992 ... Croatia joins the war in Bosnia on the side of the Muslims.
Aug. 1992 ... UN Protection Force (UNPROFOR) is authorized to use force to deliver humanitarian supplies to Bosnia, which is now 2/3 under Serbian domination. First international reports of "ethnic cleansing," rapes, concentration camps, and mass executions in Bosnia.
Sept. 1992 ... Serbia expelled from the United Nations.
Oct. 1992 ... Serb and ethnic Albanian leaders in Kosovo hold peace talks.
The UN imposes a no-fly zone over Bosnia.
Jan. 1993 ... Croatia launches an offensive in Krajina. Geneva Peace Talks underway. Under discussion is the Vance-Owen Plan, which would partition Bosnia and provide for a rotating presidency, but require no Serb troop withdrawals.
Feb. 1993 ... U.S. begins airlift of aid supplies to Bosnia.
Mar. 1993 ... War between Muslims and Croats in Bosnia.
May 1993 ... Bosnian Serbs reject Vance-Owen Plan. Some cooperation between Croatia and the Bosnian Serbs.
June 1993 ... Bosnian Serb President Radovan Karadzic proposes several partition deals that would leave Serbs about half of Bosnia. The Bosnian Muslim government rejects this plan. UN declares "safe areas" in Sarajevo, Tuzla, Bihac, Zepa, Gorazde, and Srebrenica.
July 1993 ... Krajina Serbs vote to join the Bosnian Serbs in "Greater Serbia."
Sept. 1993 ... Bosnian Muslims reject Owen-Stoltenberg Peace Plan to separate Bosnia into Muslim, Croat and Serb sections.
Feb. 1994 ... A Bosnian Serb mortar shell kills 68 people in a Sarajevo market. The attack increases international attention to Bosnia and western nations threaten air strikes if the Bosnian Serbs do not stop shelling Sarajevo. NATO shoots down four Serb aircraft.
Mar. 1994 ... Croatian and Muslim Bosnians agree on guidelines for a federated Bosnia. Krajina Serbs sign a ceasefire and zones of separation between Serbs and Croats.
May 1994 ... Western countries start air strikes against Bosnian Serbs, but end them as UN Peacekeepers are taken hostage by the Bosnian Serb army as "human shields."
Nov. 1994 ... U.S. ends embargo on arms to Bosnia.
Dec. 1994 ... Muslim-Croat Federation and Bosnian Serbs sign cease fire.
May 1995 ... Croatia seizes Western Slavonia. Krajina Serbs shell Zagreb.
Fighting escalates in Bosnia.
July 1995 ... Bosnian Serb forces enter the "safe areas" of Srebrenica and Zepa in eastern Bosnia. In what is considered the largest massacre since World War II, as many as 8,000 Bosnian Muslims are killed by Bosnian Serbs under the command of Ratko Mladic. Croatia expels ethnic Serbs from Krajina. Nearly 70 ethnic Albanians in Kosovo are sentenced to jail for setting up a parallel police force.
Aug. 1995 ... Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat forces fight Bosnian Serbs in Bihac. Serbs driven out of western Bosnia and Krajina. Serbian authorities settle several hundred Croatian Serb refugees in Kosovo.
Sept. 1995 ... NATO airstrikes against the Bosnian Serbs. Serbian forces withdraw weapons from around Sarajevo.
Oct. 1995 ... Ceasefire declared in Bosnia.
Nov. 1995 ... Proximity Talks between the Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, and Yugoslavia held in Dayton, Ohio.
Dec. 1995 ... The Dayton Peace Agreement is signed in Paris. The plan gives 51% of the Bosnian territory to Muslim-Croatian Federation and 49% to Bosnian Serbs. It also authorizes a right for refugees to return to pre-war homes and an international force (IFOR) to implement the peace plan. With regard to Croatia, the Dayton Plan recognizes the country's pre-war borders (including Eastern Slavonia).
Mar. 1996 ... The UN ends its embargo on small arms for the region. The United States approves arms and equipment for Bosnia.
Apr. 1996 ... Bosnian Muslim and Croat officials sign a Federation accord to jointly collect customs duties and have a common flag. Yugoslavia and Macedonia establish diplomatic relations. The international community pledges to raise $1.2 billion for the reconstruction of Bosnia. Bosnian Serbs refuse to attend as part of a delegation with Muslims and Croats.
May 1996 ... The International War Crimes tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia opens in the Hague. This is the first war crimes tribunal since the Nuremberg Trials after World War II. In Belgrade, workers protest economic conditions in Serbia, as the Milosevic government insists that IMF funds must be linked to recognition of Serbia as the only successor of the former Yugoslavia.
Radovan Karadzic officially steps aside as the leader of the Bosnian Serbs. Biljana Plavsic becomes the new leader. UN officials confirm the statement of Bosnian Prime Minister Muratovic that Bosnian Serbs are expelling Muslims from the Teslic area in central Bosnia.
July 1996 ... Leaders of Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia sign an agreement to reduce arsenals of heavy weapons. The Bosnian Federation approves the merger of the Muslim and Croat armies. Mass graves discovered at Srebrenica.
Aug. 1996 ... Serbia and Croatia agree to establish diplomatic relations.
Sep. 1996 ... Bosnia holds the first national elections since the end of the war. Bosnian Muslim Alija Izetbegovic becomes the first chairman of the new, rotating presidency to be shared with Serbian Momcilo Krajisnik and Croat Kresimir Zubak.
Dec. 1996 ... After Milosevic anulls local election results, Serbs take to the streets in protests.
Jan. 1997 ... The Implementation Force (IFOR) is renamed the Stabilization Force (SFOR). The Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), a banned ethnic Albanian militia group suspected in car bombing of Serb rector of Pristina University. KLA leader killed by police.
Mar. 1997 ... Four people injured when a bomb explodes in the center of Pristina, Kosovo.
July 1997 ... The War Crimes Tribunal convicts Serbian police officer, Dusan Tadic to 20 years in prison for crimes against humanity. Tadic is the first to be tried in the Tribunal. He appeals the conviction.
Sep. 1997 ... Bosnia holds municipal elections which are the first to allow voting in pre-war municipalities.
Feb. 1998 ... U.S. makes limited economic concessions to Serbia.
Mar. 1998 ... Battle in village of Prekaz in Kosovo with between 20-50 ethnic Albanians killed. U.S. ends concessions. Ethnic Albanians vote for president and parliament, but elections are declared illegals by Serbia.
Apr. 1998 ... Serbian referendum opposes Western intervention in Kosovo.
U.S. and Western Europe set new sanctions against Serbia, including freezing of assets abroad.
May 1998 ... Peace talks between ethnic Albanians and Serbs even as fighting continues.
July 1998 ... Kosovo Albanians inaugurate their outlawed parliament. Serbian police order legislators to disperse.
Aug. 1998 ... Serbian forces capture Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) stronghold of Junik. UN calls for a ceasefire in Kosovo.
Sept. 1998 ... NATO issues ultimatum to Serbia to stop violence in Kosovo or face air strikes. UN condemns massacres of Kosovar Albanians by Serbian troops.
NATO threatens airstrikes in spite of Russian protests.
Serbian forces appear to pull back, NATO halts threat, and UN authorizes monitors to ensure violence has ended.
Jan. 1999 ... Violence escalates in Kosovo. International monitors discover the bodies of at least 45 Albanians in Racak in southern Kosovo. UN war crimes prosecutor Louise Arbour is refused entry to Kosovo to probe killings.
NATO once again threatens airstrikes.
Feb. 1999 ... Rambouillet Peace Talks held in France between Serbs and Albanians. Kosovo Albanians conditionally accept ceasefire and draft accord in exchange for broad autonomy for Kosovo. Serbs accept conditional autonomy. In spite of small success, Serb forces expand in Kosovo.
Mar. 1999 ... Peace talks resume in Paris. The Kosovar Albanians sign the accord, but Serbia rejects international peacekeepers on their territory and boycotts the event. International monitors withdraw from Kosovo. In spite of last-minute diplomatic efforts to seek a peaceful solution, Serbia continues to reject any talk of NATO peacekeepers in Kosovo. NATO launches air war against Yugoslav military targets. Russia suspends cooperation with NATO. Yugoslavia breaks off diplomatic relations with United States, France, Germany and Britain.
Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Albanian refugees flee to Albania, Macedonia, and Montenegro.
Apr. 1999 ... Refugee crisis in Albania and Macedonia continue at levels as much as 20,000 people entering per day. Yugoslavia closes refugee exit points. Macedonia refuses to let NATO and UN set up more camps. NATO bombs hit a passenger train south of Belgrade and a convoy of ethnic Albanian refugees.
Yugoslavia rules out a foreign military force in Kosovo but says it is willing to discuss a civilian presence. Yugoslavia breaks diplomatic relations with Albania. Yugoslav and Kosovar Albanian troops exchange fire at the border.
NATO missiles hit the headquarters of Milosevic's Serbian Socialist Party, his private residence, Serbian State Television, and the Defense Ministry.
May 1999 ... NATO missiles mistakenly hit a bus north of Pristina, the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, and a crowded bridge in central Serbia. They also hit the ethnic Albanian village of Korisa under the belief that it is a Serb military camp. NATO begins intensive bombing of Yugoslav electricity grid, disrupting power and water. War Crimes Tribunal indicts President Milosevic for crimes against humanity. Yugoslavia seemingly accepts a peace plan from the European Union and Russia, but still will not agree to NATO's terms. NATO bombing campaign increases.
Serb forces start withdrawal from Kosovo. NATO halts the air campaign.
Russian peacekeepers from Bosnia enter Kosovo and take control of Pristina airport. Ethnic Albanian refugees start to return home. Kosovar Serbs head north. The NATO air campaign officially over, as Serb withdrawal from Kosovo completed. The KLA promises to disarm.
Dec. 1999 ... Croatian President Tudjman dies of cancer.
Jan. 2000 ... Serbian businessman, paramilitary leader and indicted war criminal Arkan is assassinated in a Belgrade hotel. The Milosevic government denies involvement, although rumors spread that Arkan was ready to provide evidence in the Hague against Milosevic. The first case tried in the War Crimes Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia ends. Following the appeals process, Bosnian Serb Dusan Tadic is sentenced to 20 years for crimes against Muslim and Croat prisoners.
Feb. 2000 ... Ethnic Albanians in Kosovo spar with UN troops over their protection of Kosovar Serbs. New Croatian government promises to support internal democratic reforms and the independence of Bosnia, rather than foment a separatist movement among the Bosnian Croats. Serbian Defense Minister assassinated.
March 2000 ... More Serbian independent media shut down by government and Serbia seals its border with Montenegro. Several Bosnian Serbs are arrested by NATO troops and charged with war crimes between 1992-94 in Bosnia. Meanwhile, the new Croatian government hands over to the War Crimes Tribunal a Bosnian Croat who had commanded irregular forces against Bosnian Muslim from 1993-94.
Street battles in Mitrovica, Kosovo result in deaths of civilians and French peacekeepers.
April 2000 ... In Bosnian elections, the Social Democrats win in the Federation. The Serbian Democratic Party narrowly wins in Republika Srpska.
A Milosevic ally and head of Yugoslav Airlines is shot to death in Serbia.
May 2000 ... The head of the Vojvodina provincial government in Yugoslavia is shot to death. President Milosevic blames the political opposition for the murder. The Opposition holds rallies in favor of free elections. Milosevic continues crackdown on independent media. The Greek government removes religious affiliation from citizen identity cards. Albania, Bulgaria, Macedonia and Slovenia are among nine nations petitioning for NATO entry by 2002.
A Serbian court convicts nearly 150 ethnic Albanians on terrorism charges stemming from the 1999 NATO bombings. Yugoslav President Milosevic closes universities early. The Security Advisor to the Montenegrin President is shot dead.
June 2000 ... Elections in Montenegro are split. Although the pro-western government wins, pro-Milosevic representatives win in heavily Serbian areas.
Serb opposition figure Vuk Draskovic survives an assassination attempt in Montenegro. Montenegro informs the UN that it does not wish to be represented by Yugoslavia.
July 2000 ... Yugoslav President Milosevic adjusts the constitution to reduce Montenegro's power in the legislature and to allow himself to run for reelection.
September 2000 ... Yugoslav elections take place. In spite of widespread vote fraud and the refusal by most Kosovar Albanians and Montenegrins to participate, opposition leader Vojislav Kostunica is elected. The Milosevic governmen insists that the victory was still less than 50% of the votes and declares that a second round of voting will take place in October. The opposition refuses to accept a second round and leads nationwide protests and strikes.
October 2000 ... Serb protesters storm the Parliament building and official state media outlets in Belgrade. Milosevic concedes power to Kostunica, who is sworn in as the new Yugoslav President. Alija Izetbegovic, citing poor health, steps down from the Bosnian Joint Presidency. As the last of the wartime leaders, his decision marks a new era in Balkan leadership.
February 2001 ... The International War Crimes Tribunal in the Hague convicts the former Chief Executive of the Croatian Defense Council of crimes against humanity for his role in military offensives against Bosnian Muslim civilians in 1992-93. He becomes the highest-level official to date convicted in the Tribunal. In a separate case, the Tribunal reaches a conviction in a case where rape is seen as a motivated act of war. This is the first in international law.
The Yugoslav Parliament passes an amnesty law for 650 ethnic Albanians held in jails since the 1999 Kosovo War.
March 2001 ... Skirmishes along the Macedonian border between ethnic Albanians and Macedonians.
April 2001 ... Slobodan Milosevic arrested in Belgrade after standoff. Serbian government vows to try him at home rather than send him to the Hague. Survivors of Srebrenica storm U.N. Headquarters in Sarajevo following reports that a Bosnian Muslim Commander who defended the town would be charged with war crimes against Bosnian Serbs.
June 2001 ... On the anniversary of his "Field of Blackbirds" speech in Kosovo, Slobodan Milosevic is extradited to the Hague, where he will eventually stand trial at the International War Crimes Tribunal. Milosevic refuses to cooperate and the Court issues a Not Guilty Plea on his behalf. Violence in the Macedonian capital Skopje over NATO troops escorting ethnic Albanians from the country.
July 2001 ... Fighting in Macedonia continues, as government forces battle Albanian rebels in the western town of Tetovo. Bosnian Serb general Radislav Krstic found guilty of genocide for role in July 1995 Srebrenica execution of 7,000 Muslim men and boys. Macedonian government sign peace agreement with Albanian rebels. British-led NATO force enters country to disarm guerrillas.
November 2001 ... Bosnian Serbs convicted in the Hague of setting up prison system.
December 2001 ... Slobodan Milosevic charged with genocide at the Hague.
January 2002
February 2002 ... Trial of Slobodan Milosevic opens in the Hague, with Milosevic representing himself.
April 2002 ... The Dutch Government resigns amidst scandal over Dutch UN troops not preventing the 1995 Srebrenica massacre.
July 2002 ... The presidents of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, and Yugoslavia meet for the first time since the war. The countries pledged to cooperate on the repatriation of refugees, fight organized crime, and assist each other in economic development. The United States extends its peacekeeping mission in Bosnia amidst negotiations over Americans being granted immunity from prosecution by International Criminal Court. Slobodan Milosevic's failing health due to heart disease slows down his trial in the Hague.
October 2002 ... Former Bosnian-Serb leader Biljana Plavsic admits to committing crimes against humanity during the 1992-1995 Bosnian war against Croats and Muslims.
November 2002 ... NATO invites Slovenia to join alliance, along with several Central and Eastern European countries.
February 2003 ... Yugoslav parliament votes to rename the country
Serbia and Montenegro. The new federation includes a joint administration of defense and foreign affairs and a future referendum on Montenegro's independence. Plavsic sentenced to 11 years in jail by the War Crimes Tribunal in the Hague.
March 2003 ... Serbian Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic is assassinated in Belgrade. Likely suspects are organized criminals with ties to Milosevic.
April 2003 ... Mirko Sarovic, the Bosnian Serb member of the tripartite presidency is forced to resign following a scandal over military exports to Iraq. Slovenia and nine others countries meet in Greece to sign a treaty to join the European Union.
September 2003 ... Wesley Clark -- NATO commander during the war in Kosovo -- announces he plans to run for the Democratic nomination for the U.S. presidency.
November 2003 ... HDZ wins more than 40% of the seats in parliamentary elections in Croatia.
December 2003 ... Political parties associated with nationalism in the 1990s gained power in Croatia and Serbia-Montnegro. HDZ, the party of Franjo Tudjman, wins in general election in Croatia. In Serbia-Montenegro, the Serbian Radical Party of Vojislav Seselj walked away with the most votes. Seselj and Slobodan Milosevic both won seats in spite of being held in the Hague on war crimes charges. SDSS (the main ethnic Serb political party in Croatia) agrees to support HDZ positions in parliament in exchange for concessions on rights for Croatia's Serbian minority, including helping refugees to return to or make claims on their properties. Bosnian Serb General Stanislav Gaic is convicted of war crimes in the Hague for his part in commanding the siege of Sarajevo from 1992-1994. Bosnian Serb commander jailed for 27 years for role in the 1995 massacre in Srebrenica. Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty ends its broadcasts in Croatian (and six other Eastern European languages).
There you go again Morgaan, trying to delete from record in Ministry-of-Truth style anything that happened before 1989.
Again, Svemirko, thank you so much for requesting that I post the CURRENT ANTI-SEMITISM IN SERBIA -- not historic, current -- for the edification of all who read this thread.
Balkan Crisis Report
Balkans home
Anti-Semitism Raises its Head in Serbia
Bos-Hrv-Srp Shqip
Though very small in number, Serbia’s Jewish community is being increasingly targeted by an array of ultra-nationalist groups.
By Dragana Nikolic-Solomon and Ljubisa Ivanovic in Belgrade (BCR No 544, 04-Mar-05)
The slogans hint at a future settling of accounts. "Juden Raus", "Achtung Juden", "Jews out of Serbia" and "Death to Jews and Gipsies", they proclaim, the words providing a chilling echo of the Holocaust that decimated European Jewry more than half a century ago.
But few Jews actually see these slogans in Serbia today. Providing ample proof of the claim that anti-Semitism doesn't need Jews to flourish, the latest wave of anti-Semitism in Serbia has broken over a community that is a shadow of its former self.
The community is now down to a tiny 3,000 or so among Serbia’s total population of around eight million, and in the 2002 census only about 1,200 people declared themselves Jewish.
Most Serbs have never even met a Jew. Even before the Second World War, the community was small, making up 0.45 per cent of the population.
After the Holocaust and the migration of most survivors to Israel, the figure has dwindled further to 0.3 per cent.
But while few Jews remain, anti-Semitism is flourishing. Many bookstores stock copies of the infamous Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, the early 20th-century book from Russia that fraudulently claimed to reveal a Jewish conspiracy against the world's non-Jewish, and especially Christian, population.
More disturbingly, a list of prominent Serbian Jews was recently posted on the website of a neo-Nazi organisation, alongside messages posted by site visitors calling for them to be killed.
Although Stormfront is a German group, most Serbian commentators conclude that they could only have obtained this list with the help of Serbian colleagues.
The list includes prominent activists and artists, such as the head of the Belgrade Fund for Political Excellence, Sonja Licht, actor Predrag Ejdus, singer Djordje David, marketing expert Srdjan Saper and the head of the Union of Jewish Communities, Aca Singer.
A catalogue of anti-Semitic literature in Serbian, which it says "every National Socialist and racially aware nationalist should read" is contained on the site on a page named "Serbian National Socialist Library".
Among the recommended texts is an article entitled “Jews – the Enemies of the Balkan Peoples.”
Professor Ratko Bozovic, a sociologist at Belgrade University, told IWPR, “These incidents are not isolated. They are part of a growing phenomenon.”
Other experts agree that Serbia is becoming a hotbed of extreme racist ideologies - partly a consequence of a decade of warfare under Slobodan Milosevic, when the media painted Croats, Muslims and Albanians as the demonic enemies of innocent Serbs.
At the beginning of the wars in Yugoslavia, the regime initially tried to link Serbs and Jews as joint victims of fascism during the Second World War, promoting the activities of front organisations such as the Serbian-Jewish Friendship Society.
But when this initiative failed to achieve the desired result internationally, anti-Jewish propaganda began to circulate, including claims that Serbs were falling victim to a Jewish lobby in Washington.
This propaganda reached a climax during the 1999 NATO air strikes over Kosovo, when Jews in President Bill Clinton’s administration were accused of being behind a master-plan to bomb Serbia.
Bozo Prelevic, a Belgrade lawyer, says belief in an anti-Serb conspiracy among the Jews is a legacy of the Milosevic era, when the regime media began to list Jews and Freemasons among all the other schemers plotting Serbia’s misfortunes.
Even after democratic parties took power in October 2000, Serbian society continued to blame others for its problems, Professor Bozovic says - regardless of whether these others are Roma, Jews, Albanians, Americans, the Hague tribunal or rich investors, whom many see as economic colonisers.
A casual surf of right-wing web sites in Serbia reveals an abundance of anti-Semitic literature and propaganda.
The site of the Serbian Defence League, an organisation which says its mission is to document the Zionist "genocide against the Serbs", features the claim that "research has uncovered that Jews in position of power were conspiring to break up Yugoslavia into states friendly with Israel, because it needed their votes in the UN Security Council".
The organisation claims Jews were directly responsible for NATO's bombing of Serbia in the late Nineties. "The Jews introduced resolutions [to the UN] to bomb the Serbs and make them pay for what Israel is doing to Moslems," it says.
The Serbian Defence League says Jews have "stolen the Serbian holocaust" because "the biggest genocide in World War II was committed against the Serbs in Nazi Croatia, and not against the Jews in Germany".
Aca Singer, veteran leader of the diminished Jewish community in Serbia, says the wave of hostile graffiti, as well as the threatening messages on various websites, are a cause for concern.
The community has now filed six criminal-law cases against the perpetrators but there is little hope that anything will be done.
The websites are located abroad, so neither the police nor the courts can take action and there is no law penalising the propagation of hatred on the internet.
Singer says it is significant that anti-Semitic incidents have increased since the fall of the Milosevic regime in October 2000. He believes this may be because the advent of democracy has released feelings about Jews that were previously well concealed.
"In the past five years over a hundred anti-Semitic books have been published in Serbia," said Singer.
"Some of the latest are ‘The Serbs In The Claws Of The Jew’ and ‘Jewish Ritual Murder’. The latter, published by IHTUS Christian Books, says
Jews kill Christian children in order to knead bread with their blood."
The IHTUS web site features copious amounts of anti-Semitic literature and calumnies. An article entitled "Ritual Murder among Jews" repeats all the old medieval libels against Jews as killers of innocent Christians.
"When a ritual murder is carried out for [the Jewish feast of] Purim,” it says, “then the victim is usually a grown-up Christian.
“This blood is then dried and mixed with baking powder to make triangular cakes…. It is possible to use the dried blood left over from the murder at Purim for the upcoming Passover festival."
The IHTUS publishing house is a privately-owned company, whose headquarters are in Zabalj in Vojvodina, the northern province of Serbia.
Publisher in chief Ratibor Djurdjevic was a member of a right-wing, pre-Second World War organisation named Dimitrije Ljotic. After emigrating to the US, Djurdjevic returned to Serbia in 1990.
Djurdjevic expounds his views on the website, claiming his books are important for Serbs and Christians because they disclose information about "the powerful, but unrecognised rulers of the world – Jewish bankers. They are the most important collaborators of Satan in his evil enterprise against Jesus Christ."
He adds that these unnamed Jewish bankers have brought much evil to the Serbs, having "started the war against the Serbs; provided assistance to the disintegrating forces in Yugoslavia; set Bosnia on fire; imposed a cruel embargo on Serbia and Montenegro; armed the Croats and Muslims... [and] demonised Serbs all over the world".
The Serbs are an obstacle to the forces of Jewish conquest in the Balkans, he argues. Djurdjevic's site promises future publications in a similar vein.
IWPR tried to contact Djurdjevic, using the email and telephone number listed on his website, but without success.
However, Branislav Jakovljevic, a director of IHTUS, told IWPR that their books did not accuse all Jews of crimes against Christians, merely some.
“It is a sin to accuse all Jews,” he said. “Amongst them there are ordinary people who haven't sinned against God.”
The problem begins, he added, with “the European and American media who are run by Jewish bankers and who are responsible for creating a bad image of Serbs”.
Anti-Semitism in Serbia is not limited to discussions on foreign-registered websites and slogans painted anonymously on walls, however.
It reaches young people through organisations such as Obraz, which target students and other young people with their hardline nationalist message.
Obraz, which means “Honour” is a right-wing movement preaching allegiance to the Serbian Orthodox Church and to Serbdom in general and encouraging passionate hostility to a list of what it calls enemies of the nation and the church.
Mladen Obradovic, president of Obraz, told IWPR that Obraz’s core values were love of God and good will to people, regardless of where they come from.
But their website tells a different story. A mission statement on the site contains a strongly-worded "Proclamation to the Enemies of Obraz", who are defined as "Zionists, converts to Islam, Ustashe [Croat fascists], democrats, false pacifists, perverts, criminals and drug addicts".
The above groups "shall be justly punished, because they should not be allowed to ruin the health of Serbian youth", the proclamation adds menacingly.
Obradovic was more nuanced in describing Obraz’s stance on Jews to IWPR.
“Because we are Christians, we cannot and do not want to hide the truth that many Euro-Atlantic powerful people of Jewish origin have revealed themselves as open enemies of the Serbian people,” he said.
“Differentiating between enemies and friends cannot be called anti-Semitism,” he added. According to Obradovic, the only people in danger in Serbia today were the Serbs themselves.
How far such views reach down to ordinary people is open to question.
According to a survey in 2003 by the Belgrade Centre for Studying Alternatives, a think-tank specialising in tracking public opinion, anti-Semitism was more widespread than many once thought.
Nine per cent of respondents openly declared themselves as anti-Semites, while another 31 per cent said they were undecided, the survey said.
Many people on the street seem confused in their understanding of history and ready to blame Jews for their country’s recent setbacks.
One taxi driver told IWPR that “Hitler was Jewish and the fact that they [the Nazis] killed millions of their own people is evidence of how bad they are”.
He said Jews were responsible for the destruction of Yugoslavia because “Tito was Jewish”. He added, “The Jews wanted to destroy Yugoslavia for their own economic interests”.
Another woman interviewed on the street said Jews exaggerated the dangers of anti-Semitism for their own benefit. “Jews use anti-Semitism on purpose to gain privileges for themselves,” she said.
According to Belgrade University professor of psychology Zarko Trebjesanin, anti-Semitism appeals to the many losers in Serbia’s troubled society.
“Anti-Semites are people who feel unfulfilled, so they often identify strongly with their own race,” he said. “These people suffer from inferiority complexes and seek an identity in the collective, embracing extremist theories in the process.”
Trebjesanin pointed out that many Serbs had died while trying to save the Jews from the Holocaust, “The Yad Vashem Centre in Jerusalem has cited 113 names from Serbia among the 19,141 righteous”, a reference to the people honoured for saving Jews.
While the websites continue churning out their poison, most of Serbia’s remaining Jews say they feel calm, while calling for the government to react more firmly.
Aca Singer says the current legal penalties against the dissemination of hate-filled views are too weak.
"The penal code should include a provision on anti-Semitism as a criminal offence," he said.
Serbia’s poor economic situation is one factor behind the upsurge of anti-Semitism, he added.
"Jews have been suspected by many nations throughout history. Particularly so if you take into account the deeply-rooted belief that the Jews control global financial and political developments."
Dragana Nikolic-Solomon is IWPR country director for Serbia and Montenegro. Ljubisa Ivanovic works for the Belgrade daily Politika
"the Clinton administration commenced a 78 day bombing of Serbia. '
....WITHOUT Congressional approval....
Witch-King:
Bring it to The Hague. Have it tried. Punish everybody who did anything wrong.
The simple fact of the matter is that the Serbs under Milosevic took all the materiel of Yugoslavia, engineered the disarmament of other ethnic groups, then tried to genocide them.
Now, declaring the living spaces of majority-others they tried to exterminate "Serb ethnic ancestral lands" they try to exert hegemony over those they tried to genocide.
They've lost the right, if they even ever had it.
Oh, that's rich. A bombing of Serbia. No, a bombing of the province of Kosovo, a bombing begged for the people living there.
And it was NATO that ordered the bombing, and that's quite a bit more than the USA.
But no matter. You guys are blind as bats and deaf as posts, and you will keep at it until there is another war, a war promised to me, BTW, from a poster who said that the aim of all good Serbs at this time is to do enough disinformation in the United States to get away with another war, this time bringing the United States in on the Serb side.
I take this man at his word.
The IWPR(a well known hotbed of anti-Serb propaganda, BTW) report is so misleading it would be utterly hilarious if it's concequences could not be rather serious.
The report blatantly contradicts itself when it first says that "antisemitism is a consequence of Milosevic policy" and then only a couple of paragraph's later IWPR quotes Singer saying "antisemitism increased after Milosevic fell from power".
Then it goes on to quote a well known Soros-fund activist Ratko Bozovic, an unbiased source if there ever was one. They never give any evidence to their claim that antisemitism is a "growing phenomenon". All they do is interview a founder of a meaningless publishing house(the kind of which the USA has at an abundance in every town), a website of the so-called "Serbian Defense League" owned by an American citizen that lives in the USA(a fact IWPR conveniently neglects to mention) and just as equally minor organization called Obraz. As a cherry on top of a cake they give us a conversation with a taxi driver as their proof. Wow, folks! Let's interview a random NYC cab driver, then we'll know everything we need to know about America.
This is a typical anti-Serb propaganda matrix: take up a couple of Serb moonbats with delusions of grandeur and paint them as a representative of Serbs as a whole with NGO activists ever-eager to smear anything Serb presented as reliable source.
And finally, just for you, Svemirko, an analysis from Dr. Stephen Roth of Tel-Aviv University on Serbian anti-Semitism, from http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2005/serbia.htm
Republic of Serbia
A great deal of antisemitic graffiti was reported in 2005 on the walls of Jewish facilities, as well as on property of institutions allegedly under Jewish control. Numerous nationalist far right organizations are active in Serbia, some closely connected to the Serbian Orthodox Church.
The Jewish community
The Jewish community in Serbia and Montenegro has some 3,000 members out of a total population of 7 million. Most live in Belgrade, the capital, and the rest are dispersed among Novi Sad, Zemun, Subotica and a few smaller cities. The roof organization is the Federation of Jewish Communities of Serbia and Montenegro (FJCSM), located in Belgrade. The Jewish Museum in Belgrade operates a database on the Holocaust and collects testimonies from survivors. The American Joint Distribution Committee supports local activities and enhancement of the cultural and economic life of the communities. Although there are no Jewish educational institutions, Hebrew is taught at the community level. At Sajmisthe, an eternally lit menorah memorializes Jews persecuted during World War II.
Nationalist Organizations
Almost all extreme right nationalist parties claim that they have nothing against other nations and minorities and only want to strengthen national identity. None are overtly antisemitic, probably due to the law prohibiting incitement of racial, religious or ethnic hatred and intolerance.
The Serbian Radical Party (Srpska Radikalna Stranka – SRS) is an extremely right-wing nationalist organization. Its founder and director Vojislav Sheselj is currently on trial in The Hague, accused of war crimes and atrocities against humanity. Similarly, Raznatovic Arkan, founder of the ultra-nationalist Party of Serbian Unity (Stranka Srpskog Jedinstva) and the leader of paramilitary forces during the Balkan wars, was wanted for war crimes, but was murdered in 2000. Borislav Pelevic is acting leader of the party.
The Serbian Orthodox Church (Srpska Pravoslavna Crkva − SPC), as well as groups associated with it, is known for its ambivalent attitude toward the Jews and antisemitism, and some high-ranking Church officials have been observed at nationalist events. While on the one hand, representatives of the Church have condemned antisemitic acts and stated that antisemitism is not in the nature of Serbian Orthodoxy, on the other, the Church recently proclaimed an antisemite − Archbishop Nikolaj Velimirovic − a saint.
A highly educated man who became a symbol of Serbian thought, spiritualism and Orthodoxy, Velimirovic freely expressed his antisemitic beliefs in several of his works, including those − published repeatedly − from his days in Dachau concentration camp in 1945, where the German occupiers had imprisoned him because of the perceived threat he posed due to his promotion of Serbian strength and values and unity of the Orthodox world. For example, in Through the Cell Window (Valijevo, 2003, pp. 160−2), he said:
But many Jews… stood against Christ, stepped on him and killed him... Inspired by the stinking spirit of Satan, they judged and murdered Christ. And above all they showed themselves worse enemies of God than Pilate himself …
and,
… one indeed wonders how baptized and Christianized Europeans surrendered totally to the Yids [Jeeds], so they think with a Yid’s head, accept the Yids’ programs, adopt the Yid’s fight against Christ… what is most important is how Europe became the servant of the Yids…”
Velimirovic warns Serbs to correct their thinking and deeds so that they, too, do not become “sons of Satan.”
Velimirovic is the spirit behind several nationalist organizations: Obraz (or Otcastveni Pokret Obraz − Face), a well-organized ultra-rightist group, was formed in the mid-1990s in Belgrade University’s Faculty of History. Some of its members, such as Rados Ljusic, known as the unofficial ideologist of the movement, are known for their radical views. Originally, the official Obraz website included a “Declaration for the Enemy,” which threatened Jewish or Judeo-Masonic individuals or groups. It was eventually replaced with the text:
Will Serbs exist in the near future or will we be murdered by Shiptars [derogatory term for Albanians], those who converted to Islam, or die by the hand of Judeo-Masonic NATO murderers?... or will we… drown in the sewers of the Soros Open Society [Open Society Institute − a foundation of Hungarian American Jew George Soros] and the New World Order?
Many antisemitic and racial incidents, such as graffiti writing on Jewish facilities, on buildings where Jews are employed or on institutions perceived to house liberal/open-minded people (Belgrade University’s Faculty of Philosophy, B-92 TV [an independent TV channel which opposed the Milosevic regime], Helsinki Committee for Human Rights), have been attributed to Obraz, but have not been proven. The current leader is Mladen Obradovic. The site provides links to far right organizations throughout Europe.
The nationalist, religious Saint Justin the Philosopher (Sveti Justin Filozof) movement, named after a pupil of Velimirovic, attracts conservative and Orthodox members, and is reportedly supported by SPC. Branches of the movement exist in many universities in Serbia.
Begun in Belgrade University’s Faculty of Philology in 1999, Dveri (Gates) is one of the largest movements, attracting both extreme right and Orthodox supporters. The organization opposes globalization and mondialism (an alternative form of globalization). It has close links to the SPC and Church officials sometimes lecture at their weekly meetings at the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering. In 2001, Dveri claimed that Orthodox Serbian unity cannot be achieved with those who do not accept the Truth, such as Jews, Muslims, Protestants. Their ideology is based on conspiracy theories (such as powerful forces controlling the world) and extreme xenophobia, requiring Serbia to unite nationally and religiously. The movement has a journal and is expanding rapidly throughout Serbia.
The Serbian People’s Movement (Svetozar Miletic), located in Vojvodina, is a far right organization, although this is not apparent from its program (due to the law prohibiting incitement of racial, religious or ethnic hatred). Many of its members are professionals and academics and the movement has the support of high-ranking SPC officials. Its website has links to the organizations mentioned above, as well as to groups, such as Final Combat (see below) which share its point of view.
Final Combat (Poslednji Obracun), led by Dimitrije Najdanovic, has members from Serbia and among Diaspora Serbs, as well as from other nations. Their ideology, a slightly modified version of National Socialism, opposes interracial relations. In regard to the Jews, their manifesto reads: “World Jewry should be avoided even when they offer gifts. A skill which will teach how to prevent any contacts with them and a skill how to intercept their actions should be established…[sic]” The main difference between Final Combat and other groups is that while the latter concentrate on the spiritual-intellectual side, the former emphasizes physical preparation in order to defeat the enemy.
The Serbian Right (Srpska Desnica) apparently acts as an umbrella for all Church-related far right groups. Other nationalist organizations, with varying degrees of antisemitism, include: the Serbian Knights (Srpski Vitezovi), also based on Serbian Orthodoxy and located in Belgrade University’s medical faculty; Rasionalisti, the Serbian division of Stormfront; the extremely antisemitic US-based Serbian Defense League, connected to Stormfront; and the neo-Nazi National Line (Nacionalni Stroj).
Antisemitic activity
Antisemitic activity in Serbia is usually confined to graffiti on walls and buildings, usually belonging to Jewish individuals and organizations, but sometimes on non-Jewish ones because the perpetrators assume that the Jews control everything. Such activity was reported in many Serbian cities in 2005. For example, on 26−27 January, a memorial plate dedicated to Jewish victims of World War II in Novi Knjazevac was coated with oil paint and a swastika and the words “Jews” (Zhidovi), scrawled on it. Central Belgrade and its surroundings were covered with anti-Zionist/antisemitic posters and graffiti on 22 March. Slogans on the wall of the Jewish cemetery read: “Fight the 5 October Zionist occupation of Serbia [fall of Milosevic regime]; “B-92 is Jewish Television!” “Jewish parasites get out of Serbia”; “We want freedom and not Jewish occupation! Serbia belongs to Serbs!” Similar graffiti appeared on buildings of the Rex Cultural Center (which engages in ‘cultural decontamination’ − showing films and lectures about recent Balkan wars and Serbian responsibility for them), formerly, the Jewish Oneg Shabbat Center; the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights and the Foundation for Humanity and Law. The graffiti accused the heads of the last two institutions of being “Jewish puppets.”
In May, several buildings in the city of Zrenjanin, Vojvodina, including a restaurant with a memorial plate to the synagogue that once stood there and to Jewish victims of the Holocaust were covered with fascist and antisemitic messages. In Nish, southern Serbia, the synagogue was desecrated twice – in June and July − with antisemitic slogans such as “Death to servants of Zionism” and “Arbeit macht frei.”
In February 2005 a list of Jews living in Serbia, including their home and office phone numbers and addresses appeared on the white supremacist Stormfront site, Serbian section. Although it was eventually removed, the site continues to regularly explain the damage Jewish people do to the world in general and particularly to Serbia.
An anti-fascist meeting at the University of Novi Sad was interrupted by a group of youths who resembled skinheads. Introducing themselves as ‘the National Line’, they saluted in the Nazi fashion and harassed and insulted the speakers and audience, They were apprehended and arrested a few days later. Literature found by the police on members of the National Line indicated the neo-Nazi orientation of the group.
A brochure containing the tract “Serbs in the Claws of Jews,” by Milorad Mojic, was distributed in Novi Sad, in February. The piece was originally written in 1940/1. The author claims, inter alia, that “Jews can dishonor non-Jewish girls.”
Antisemitic Publishers and Literature
The most antisemitic publisher is the Christian IHTUS, founded and owned by Ratibor Djurdjevic, who returned in the early 1990s from the US where he had immigrated. Djurdjevic receives support from Zarko Gavrilovicn a retired priest from the SPC. Djurdjevic wrote, translated and published books such as: The Elders of Zion; 3000 Years in the Service of the Satan; The Myth about the Holocaust; Judeo-Bankers and the Rise of Hitler and The Human Victim in Judaism. These books can be purchased cheaply in Belgrade; in fact, one of the bookshops specializing in such literature is located in the center, beside the Museum of Genocide. Although the local Jewish community brought legal charges against him, he was unable to appear in court, allegedly due to ill-health; nevertheless, he continues to write and publish.
Other publishers of antisemitic books include Ekopress in Zrenjanin, and Vojvodina, which printed Mein Kampf (foreword written by well-known Serbian writer Radomir Smiljanic). Dejan Lucic specializes in ‘conspiracy theories’ and blames the Jews for all the evil in the world, and especially in Serbia. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is widely available.
Yeah, Witch-King, and Srebrenica is a lie, too, right??? Despite the fact the Serb government acknowledges it and has apologized.
So, here's a thought for you. Why don't you guys clean up your nationalism, anti-Semitism, etc., and stop declaring -- jihad style -- that every criticism of you is just people martyring you.
Then you could become a real asset to anti-jihadism because you would not longer simply be ANTI EVERYBODY ELSE.
Morgaan, you are hilarious! Your "majorities" came to be through a REAL GENOCIDE AND ETHNIC CLEANSING THAT OCCURED IN WWII not phony and non-existent ones you promote here! But according to you, they have the right to those lands and the Serbs WHO WERE REALLY GENOCIDED 60 YEARS AGO have no rights!
So Witchipoo ...
How come it's all right for Serbs to try to genocide their neighbors in the Balkans in the 1990s for something that happened in World War II.
Is it all right for the Norwegians to exterminate the Catholics because of the inquisition of their native religionists in the Middle Ages?
Is it all right for the Muslims to claim rights to now-Christian lands (and let the people living their die in masses for their claims)they claimed in 1350?
I find Serbs going back to 500- and 600-years-old battles to try to justify taking land and killing people less than a decade ago.
The Serbs did too much wrong and they cannot be trusted with the administration of any peoples other than their own.
Serbs have a right to their own country, Serbia, not their and that of others on whom they inflicted rape, torture, genocide, etc.
I would be in the SAME place if the Albanians tried to take over Belgrade. I would say: No, back in your own majority place.
The only hope for peace in the Balkans is if the ethnic groups all stay separated for awhile.
I do not know what you guys are thinking that you even WANT Kosovo, because if you try to take and impose your will on a population that is 90% non-Serb you will have another war, and this time it is likely that it will happen where Serbs are presently living and I have no idea what the death toll will be, but if even one more Serb, Croat, Bosnian, Albanian, or Jewish kid dies in a conflict on the basis of a lust for land, I hope any adult involved it burns in hell.
Now, the Serbs THEMSELVES told ethnic Serbs to leave Kosovo because of what they planned to do to the Albanians there. And they didn't want Serbs dying because other Serbs couldn't recognize them when they used the tanks and pulverized the place.
So Serbs left of their own free will, and now you want to claim the land and send them back.
It would never have got to this point if you guys had simply NOT GONE TO WAR AGAINST NEIGHBORS WHO DIDN'T WANT TO BE RULED BY SERBS ON AN ETHNIC-CLEANSING BASIS.
And whenever anybody asks you to stop being so damned militant, ethnically superior, etc., you go find whatever you can in the past to excuse yourselves for present behavior.
Now who does that sound like? Whose logic does that sound? That sounds like Al Qaeda/Muslim supremacist thinking to me. Don't do it. It's beneath you.
Come back to us as the good people you once were and can be again. And stop trying to start another war and pull MY country into an ethnic supremacy/cleansing deal that we will never be able to live with on a moral level.
Thank you.
Moron Sinclair(I didn't resort to insults, but I give as good as I get), the Serbs did not try to genocide anybody. Your claim is a lie! And I have legal paper that proves it! The International Criminal Court decided that it was a lie!
For the record: there were war crimes comitted by Serbs in Srebrenica but it was not genocide. The Dutch parliament confirmed that the women and children from the town were evacuated to muslim city of Tuzla. What happened at Srebrenica was a response to this:
http://real-srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/
Brought to you by your beloved Naser Oric.
And with this I finish any polemics with you, I have spent enough time with you in the sewer, I don't want to descend there anymore.
Prizren and Pec are just as Serb as Belgrade is. But taking over those towns is OK according to some individual's perverted logic.
And yes, Witchipoo, I am aware of the Serb genocide during World War II and it is heart-breaking. But accusing the Jews of "stealing the Serb Holocaust" ...
... AND BLAMING THAT GENOCIDE ON THE JEWS [http://sdlusa.com/sdl/] ...
... is not helpful to the issue. And blaming Serb wars of aggression on issues in the past is NO DIFFERENT than blaming Israel and the United States for 9/11.
Come on. Give us the Serbia we need. You have a brilliant, wonderful past, but a new radical nationalism will only wind up leaving Serbia in the place it is now, despised as the worst attempt at genocide since the Nazis, for decades and decades more.
Serbia should be offering a hand of friendship and a model of tolerance to all its neighbors so that healing can begin. Healing can't begin with Serbia's neighbors fearing further future aggression.
Once Serbia shows itself to be level-headed, removes its anti-Semitism, and acknowledges other ethnic groups in the Balkans as equal on a racial and ethnic basis, then Serbia can ally with those Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo to help remove the well-financed Wahhabi effort there. Bosnia last week expelled 400 forein nationals, and in Kosovo there are emerging battles in villages to remove the Wahhabis altogether.
Serbia can be part of this effort if she can be found to be trustworthy about the safety of her neighbors.
The linkage with Israel is strong... especially in terms of 'the solution.' For Kosova, the solution was imposed 'from above' by others. 'This is the way it is.' The Saudi solution for Israel calls for an immediate two-state solution with Israel giving up parts of Jerusalem, back to the '67 borders, but also 'the right of return' with Arabs coming back to inside the '67 borders wherever their hearts desire. In effect... the end of Israel. The Saudis call for no negotiations... they call for Israel to take it or leave it and warn of war if the complete set up is accepted. James Baker and others are coming around to the Saudi position, going so far to call for an outside solution to be imposed on Israel.
But before a solution could be imposed on Serbia, complete vilification of Serbs had to be marshaled; ever seen a bad Muslim Albanian on TV or in the movies, or a kind-hearted Serb? With three generations since the destruction of Europe's Jews, the vilification of Israel picks up steam. Israel's 'friends' such as the Kind of Jordan and Condi and Turkey suggest open minded examination of the 'Saudi Peace Plan' and Israel's typical leftists dupes such as Shlomo Ben-Ami chirp in that Israel should accept the plan.
If Israel not only retreats to the pre-'67 borders, but also asorbs millions of Arabs into such borders, will that 'final demand' calm down the Arabs, reform Islam, or will it embolden the Jihadis? Have Albanians calmed down now that they are in the driver's seat... will they bring peace to the Balkans, ushering in a golden age of dhimmitude? What do you think?
It's wonderful how some people never actually deny anything posted in the original article but rather insist on their distoted view of history that somehow miraculously stops at a certain year. From there a twisted logic is born that it is alright for some people to keep a majority acquired through real genocide while at the same time not only dismissing the real victims' legitimate wish not to live under peoples that tried to exterminate them but also reversing the roles through made-up genocides using every propaganda tool and slur they can think of.
On the other hand these same individuals go absolutely haywire when somebody makes light-hearted fun about their land of origin. And insults when people debunk their perverted worldview come naturally.
Why do I waste time with such people? They themselves certainly are not worth it. I just don't want someone falling prey to their lies and distortions.
Ang-mar ... excellent.
For everyone else, please read the Balkans Timeline above.
As to Witch-King's assertion that there was no genocide, that is true only because NATO intervened. Note the following from the report that Witch-King cites:
QUOTING:
"The acts committed at Srebrenica ... were committed with the specific intent to destroy in part the group of the Muslims of Bosnia-Herzegovina as such, and accordingly ... these were acts of genocide" committed by Bosnian Serb forces, the judgment said.
It specifically demanded that Serbia hand over for trial Gen. Ratko Mladic, the general who oversaw the Bosnian Serb onslaught at Srebrenica, to the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. Serbia has said it has been unable to arrest Mladic since his indictment 12 years ago.
By 13-2, the court found that Serbia had the power to foresee and prevent the Srebrenica slaughter _ the worst in Europe since World War II _ and failed to use it. Only the Serbian judge opposed the demand for Mladic's transfer.
Serbia's claim that it was powerless to prevent the massacres "hardly tallies with their known influence" over the Bosnian Serb army, said the ruling.
END QUOTE.
The UN court found that Serbia **as a country** could not be held accountable for all the actions of the Bosnian army and the Serb paramilitaries operating in Bosnia because they did not have total control of them. That seems fair to me. But they were aware of operations going on and had the ability to stop them and did not, the court found.
NOW ...
If Serbia would like to regain its reputation, it MUST turn over Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić to the War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague for prosecution on charges of mass murder and torture.
Enough already. Put up or shut up. And note that the Serb judge on this court VOTED AGAINST TURNING OVER MLADIC.
It doesn't looking promising.
Of course, details that do not suit the agenda are unpublished, such as the parts where it says that Bosnian war was not a war of agression by anybody or that war crimes there do not characterize genocide. Or that the part is based on an ICTY decision that had to broaden the definition of "genocide" so much that even the BBC noted that according to that ruling any local attrocity could be deemed genocide.
poor moron Sinclair continues with his spam odyssey .....
Care to explain, Moron old bean, why your hero - Izetbegovich - met with Bin Laden, had very close links with TWRA - who organised the first terror attack on the WTC - and helped infiltrate Iranian AL Qud forces into Bosnia. To prove his Islamist credentials, he pointedly refused to pay his respects at Ataturks grave. To Hard case Islamists he's an apostate. The only other country's leader to behave in such a way was - you guessed it - Iran.
Serbia and Bosnian Serbs on the other hand were deluged with Israeli military hardware and more importantly, vital intelligence.
Poor Sinclair. The penny refuses to drop.
But keep up with the spamming, do. Maybe you could write a book. "Spam the World in 80 Days"
Morgan,
I mean this comment respectfully, but can you shorten your posts at all? I am trying to understand you point of view. However I do not have the time to spend reading such long posts and I imagine others on here do not also. If you could condense them into one or two paragraphs that would be helpful to the discussion. Otherwise they are either passed up or skimmed.
Regardless of the pasts sins of the Serbs, when I see pictures of desecrated Orthodox Churches occuring in the present, I can only image what is to come in Kosovo under total islamic rule.
On the same topic, I wonder what the Macedonias should do? Should the UN also grant the militant Albanias a seperate region of that country in which it will eventually be incorporated into a greater muslim Albania?
Should Serbia give up land on its borders with Kosovo that are in dispute? Should Russia give up Chechnya to islam? Should Georgia give up Abkazia? Should North Ossetia be given up to islam? Does Armenia relinquish Nagorno-Karabakh? Where does it end...
Adobe,
I'm sorry for the length of some posts, but sometimes posting substantive timelines and articles with honorable citation is the only way to make a point on the basis of fact, not opinion or argument. I don't like to, but sometime I have to.
I tend to believe things are not as applicable across the boards as many do. Each situation is unique:
Chechnya has a long and complicated history with the Russians, who force-marched many out of the country when they took it over. In the 1990s Chechnya elected a non-Islamic independence-minded person. Russia assasinated him. The local independence movement was NOT Islamic to begin with, but became so with the introduction by the Wahhabis of Basheyev, who made it thus, assassinating BTW the moderate Muslim there whom Putin had erroneously conflating with an Islamist movement to begin with. Putin is largely responsible for the mess that is in Chechnya now, and given now that the movement has been infiltrated by Wahhabis, I would say Russia should hang onto it, becuase Al Qaeda LOVES A VACUUM of any kind. They can exploit such a vacuum at the drop of a hat.
Should Georgia give up Abkazia? No.
Should North Ossetia be given up to Islam? Don't know.
Does Armenia reliquish Nagorno-Karabakh? No.
Should Serbia give up border lands with Kosovo? No, the Serb majority enclaves in Kosovo should remain Serb territory; the Albanian-majority areas should be Kosovo.
The question underlying this is one that implies that we must make a decision between all Islam and everything else. That, I feel, is both foolish in terms of potential MASSIVE wars that draw radical terrorists from all over the Middle East into yet another "vacuum". The Muslims of the Balkans don't want it, but if they are attacked and defenseless, they not only cannot defend themselves against the Serbs, they also cannot defend themselves against the Wahhabists, whom they call "space aliens" and against whom they are defending themselves admirably against the onslaught of Wahhabi financing and threats of violence.
What we all need lies along another line: We need to stop Saudi financing, on which all of this runs like a freight train. To do that we need to get off oil as fast as we can.
We need to lobby hard worldwide for laws that forbid foreign financing of religions and political groups BY ANYBODY in the United States and elsewhere. That would end all foreign PACs like AMPAC, APAC, ISNA, ICNA, and CAIR and stop Saudi financing of "charities" that dupe the poor into believing the most radical Islam in the world is a friendly thing to them.
Sorry, another long one. Apologies [s].
Adobe ... Last note.
You'll notice that my initial response, and all following, came after an ad hominem attack in the first post.
What follows are rants by people accusing me of lies. When people do this I post solid information to back up my opinions.
When people lie, they can do it in a sentence.
When you have to explain why you believe what you do, it can take much longer. I don't ask people to believe me because I said so. I give them the information with which to form their own opinion.
The people in the Balkans have been killing themseleves over ethnicity -- not religion -- for 900 years. Now the Serbs try to claim that it's now "religion". It isn't. It's ethnic hatred and needs to be dealt with as such.
Morgaan Sinclair
You really are foolish if you think another Islamic state is good for the world. You can make post after post on this till the end of time and it still does not change that fact.
Then again we have already clashed so many times why even respond. I have already won and you already have lost this one. Kosovo (just like Bosnia before) is the blueprint for jihadist everywhere. In Thailand, Israel, Sudan, and others the jihadist make the same claims but for some reason you only buy it with Kosovo and not with others (or perhaps you do).
Once again how does a Islamic state in Kosovo help anyone? You know and I know where they are getting their money from (Arabia). Your endless defense of the enemy should be noted. Just like your savage attacks on Hirsi Ali is noted.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015150.php
I am sorry but you have never apologized for that brutal assult. You never answered my questions. You also lacked facts and made up quotes to defend you position then also.
Kosovo should stay in the hands of the Serbs not becuase the serbs are choir boys but because I am sick of muslims getting land grabs because bleeding hearts like you Morgaan keep buying their propaganda. They then use that land to make another land grab etc. It never ends until somebody says no.
I'll repeat what I said in another post. The Serbs were bombed because they acted like beasts. The deserved whatever they got. It was all to do with creating a Greater Serbian empire.
There's not much between them and Muslims, they are both have a whining "we're always the victims" mentality. They sowed the winds of their own destruction.
That being said, Kosovo shouldn't be given to Albania, it shouldn't be given to Serbia either.
Perhaps I could have it.
Ian
Big difference Serbs want a greater Serbia...
Muslims want a greater world.
Is any of this sinking in????
I vote for Ian getting Kosovo. Actually, I think the UN should continue to administer it for a period of 25 years.
GreatCometofWhenever ...
It's clear I know a great deal more about this conflict than you. You never answer with anything substantive at all, are completely unaware of the politics on the Serb far-right that is right now designing a new war, and apparently have no compassion for people at all if they're not of the right ethnicity or religion for you.
My goal here is to prevent another wholesale slaughter in the Balkans, one that will draw Al Qaeda there worse than they were drawn to Iraq. You don't want to go there. Because if you do, there WILL be a Wahhabi satellite there, not because the Albanians or the Bosnians want it, but because the Serbs will have made sure that they, as extremely Europeanized pluralistic Sufis, are robbed of the strength to prevent it.
There are only three real possibilities for the development of a schismatic liberal Hanafi fiqh that throws out the hadith and bad verses of the Qur'an: progressive thinking in Turkey (NOT Erdogan), Islam lite in Indonesia in the non-Aceh provinces that invented the Pancasila doctrine, and Sufi Islam in the Balkans. Of all of them, Sufi Islam in the Balkans stands the best chance of being an Islam that we can live with over the long haul.
Again, the conflicts in the Balkans are not principally religious. They are ethnic, nothwithstanding the efforts of the Serbs now to paint them as religious for their own benefit.
I thought you said at the top of this thread that you were busy. Didn't stop you from going way beyond what svemirko accurately predicted you would. Can we see even oneSerbia/Albania/Kosovo/Bosnia thread go by without your plethora of copy/paste jobs from the Cordoba protocols, or other such UN hack jobs?
@ Morgaane
AAARGGGH, beautifull, realy beutifull. Please excuse moi, Morgaane cos Iam late for posting. I was absent from my pc, but I thank you cos at least for a first time, seeing your comment bring a smile on my face. And as I can see from your comment, you were busy too (cooking some serb for a dinner perhaps?).
It would realy make me tired to copy/paste myself as you usualy do,and as I did waste one hour for typing the comment on previous Kosovo topic, which you succesfully delited almost immidiatelly (which make me wonder how in reality you are distanced from moderator ;). It would be realy nice from jw/dw management to bring that post back cos there you can find a lot of answers for your rahitic arguements. So Ill try this time to be brief.
'I had not planned to comment on this thread as I am very busy, and then I noticed your completely unprovoked ad hominem attack. Therefore, AT YOUR REQUEST, I will respond.'
No honey, I didnt request. But if you are so willing to indulge my request, well, thank you. Thats realy nice. Than please, do me a favor (and to the rest of 'enemy of islam world') and stop posting at all, at least on the topics about western-serbian relationship. That would be my most honest request for you. Or to put it more simply: please spare us from your comments. Aaah, but you will not do that, right. Too much is in stake.
'Thank you, Svemirko, for your latest invitation to me to respond. Every time you place an ad hominem, lying attack on me on these boards, I will be pleased to respond.'
Beeep. Wrong again. It was not an invitation (as it was not the request).It was diagnose. And not of your brain or personality (cos it would take a lot of time), but just of your political view.But I am very proud that you are willing to use me as an EXCUSE for bombing, pardon, I meant to say flooding...no wait, actually smearing this website and Serbs on any possible occasion. Than I promise that I'll start to post on any other topic, and you can copy/paste your reports as much as you like. Actually, you can post it anywhere baby. I mean, imagine the news on jw: ,scuicidal bomber blow up himself in sunny mosk;casulties: 25 dead man,woman, camels and goats'. Than you jump in with your 'timeline', than ngo report on serbian nazist swarming allaround, than your usual 'serbian-war-genocide' relationship, and we all end up happy. Imagine that Morgaane. What a happyness. Even those sunnys, camels and goats will be happy not just for 72 virgins in eternal orgasmus, nooo; theyll be happy to know that it was actually the serbs who did it. They start everything. You can actually print all of your posts (all 5 of them) and stick it to a forehead (if you allready didnt) and walk all aroud united states. And dont forget to visit ban kee moon (you know, the guy with a funny name) in U.N. buliding, cos he just said today that its israel to be blame and occupation of palestine territories, for m.e. crisis. But he will be very gratefull to you, to remove stone from his neck (if he have it at all, I mean on neck, not stone), and tell him that it wasn jews, it was Goddamned serbs again. And if he than finds a time, nervs and eyes to read all your timelines and reports you maybe even get a nobel prize for peace.
Now excuse me. I just received a simptoms of my chronic genocidal attack, and I got to metamorphose myself in my natural serbian subhuman state. Maybe I shouldnt breakfast those albanian girl. Damn it. My mother warned me: 'Dont eat albanian, dont eat albanian. You can just get a diarea'. But I didnt listened dear mamma.Shit, I'll try some bosnian next time.
Svemirko, dahlink! You're back.
You know, you're the first Serb cannibal I've ever known. I thought that existed now only among South Kore of New Guinea, but I stand corrected. Watch out, though, eating another human being can give you kuru, and we wouldn't want you to have that.
And, dear me, can't you keep your posts shorter? We don't want you getting typists' cramp!
Try to calm down. This is a discussion on merits, and you don't seem to be able to able to polemcisism long enough to proffer a coherent thought.
svemirko
If the moderators deleted anything of yours, the least they could do is delete all of Morgaan's excessive copy/paste jobs from wherever. It's getting tiresome seeing every Serb thread dominated by her anti-Serb rants, including the Trolley Square massacre, where she took on Robert.
So far, I haven't asked for Morgaan to be banned, but given her tolerance for posts such as yours, I am openly asking for it right now.
Robert? Hugh? Marisol? Anybody?
The Guns of August was a popular book in my household when I was growing up. When the Soviet Union ceased to exist, I immediately thought of the Balkans, silent for so long, but historically the ignitor of world wars. I wondered what will happen now? I guess we know.
This area is NOT just a flash point for parochial ethnic divisions, but IS the tinderbox of world wide struggles. You fellows can nit-pick the history of the Serbian-Croatian conflicts, but it does boil down to the present reality: There is a world-wide struggle for Islamic supremacy and one of the crucibles of the still nascent conflagration-to-come is Kosovo.
The United States occupation of Iraq may not be everyone's preferred venue for this struggle, but the West, dar-al-harb, has taken the struggle to them, in dar-al-Islam. And for them, the thirteen-hundred year agressors, that is a paradigm shift that has not been adequately received. That may be because of the inadequacy of the delivery.
Infidel Pride ...
I sent your request to Robert, so I'm sure if they see any merit in your request they'll do something about it.
The posts of svemirko's that were deleted in this and other threads were flatly libelous.
Whether you, the class bully, think so or not, I have a right to my opinion, which is backed up by SOLID REFERENCE OF THE FACTS.
When people call me "nazi" "taqiyyah Al Qaeda" and the like for doing so that is libel. When people make sexual references to me, that is porn.
Either a person is capable of a debate on the facts of the matter or they're not.
That you try to have punished and banned everyone who doesn't agree with you gives ample evidence of the side of civility on which you stand and have stood every since I first apologized to Robert many months ago now -- you with your demands to know the names of people so you could hurt them and the details of relationships that are none of your goddam business.
Well, we'll see. If JW bans me for posting opinoin backed up by solid information, then this is not a site that I will be supporting further.
But thus far, I have only seen banned people for the fairest of reasons -- people who engage in filthy speech, postulations of genocide against Muslims, unwelcome sexual innuedos toward women.
Posting solid historical and contemporary information to counter people make without substantiation is not only a right, it's a duty.
I don't care if you don't like it.
While I do not consider myself qualified to express much of an opinion on the issues that have been discussed over these latest threads relating to Kosovo and Serbia, it seem obvious that there are some fairly strong opposing views on the subject.
What I do not understand, is how it has come to the point where we are discussing requesting the banning of a poster on the basis of their actually having an opposing view.
If I remember correctly, we accuse many internet bloggers and commenters on the political left of outright censorship, deletion of posts and banning of members if so much as a whisper of disagreement with the party line is uttered.
Are we now to go down that same path?. I would understand it if the poster in question were little more than a mere 'troll' seeking to disrupt debate. Yet to seek the banning of a poster for disagreeing and being willing and able to argue those points of disagreement well?; That smacks of intolerance towards opposite views. Sound like anyone we know?.
If anyone has a different view, then express it. If you can't agree with the facts as represented, then bloody agree to disagree. Just don't seek to have someone tossed out on their ear because they won't change their stance on any particular subject.
Morgaan
Thanks.
I don't agree with Abdullah or Naseem. I've openly and explicitly requested that Abdullah not be banned. As for Naseem, we all know Hugh's opinion on that - one I agree with.
Similarly, I even support your right to be pro-Albanian/pro-Islamic, even on this site. I do however draw the line when I see you not only being aggressive against those who include Serbs as our allies against Islam, but getting their posts deleted as well. If you can't tolerate people who have views different from yours, I fail to see how you can expect that of others.
Also, I wouldn't dwell too much on that apology that you once sent Robert that made you a cause celeb. After all, a few weeks ago, you exchanged fire on the Trolley Square jihadist, and conveniently ignored the fact that he was given a hero's funeral in Bosnia by total strangers. I dunno about you, but most of us don't attend funerals of murderers we don't know just because they are from our same ethnic/religious background. Somehow, crimes done by people who are enemies of the Serbs are completely glossed over by you as Wahabi influence. I do see that you want Serb majority enclaves in Kosovo to remain under Serbia - somewhat like Nagorno-Karabakh. Big of you.
Another thing - the Hanafi and Sufi schools - which you laud in Bosnia and Indonesia - is also prominent in South Asia - from Afghanistan to Bangladesh. Hasn't stopped them from being absolute Jihadis.
@ Morgane
Burp,
sorry, I just belch bosnian.No it was togoan. Ah, never mind anyway.
'You know, you're the first Serb cannibal I've ever known. I thought that existed now only among South Kore of New Guinea, but I stand corrected.'
What? First Serb cannibal. So what? You have said yesterday that you are inclined toward catholicism. So, when you eat the Christ body and drink his blood you are a good catholic, but when I nibble some albanian, Iam a genocidal (dont forget to mention that) cannibal? What a justice. You madam are ready for CNN reporter.
'And, dear me, can't you keep your posts shorter? We don't want you getting typists' cramp!'
Look who's talking. When you start your copy/paste bs, I can barrely open this web page. Why you just simply dont open some blog and copy/paste links to it? It would be realy nice.It will save time and space here. Or you just try to hypnotize us.You know, 100 times copy/pasted lie becames one time posted truth.
'Try to calm down. This is a discussion on merits, and you don't seem to be able to able to polemcisism long enough to proffer a coherent thought.'
No lady, I cant calm down. The world I loved and belived is collapsing all over the place and I cant stand calm.In this particular case, more concretly, america which I loved and admire is poised to destroy me, my family and my nation and all I belive. And all that with a smile on the face. It hurts morgane. It realy, realy hurts. But this web site at least help me not to fall into hatred to average american, totally oblivious for what is doing in his name to one small insignificant but suffered nation. The very same america which slip through its fingers far worst crimes all around the world, but throw into shithole any single of its laws and rules when serbs are at stake.Cos at least I saw here people deeply and honestly sorrying for the fact that one christian nation was bombed for benefit of mortal enemyes of freedom (muslims). One american quecker which I personally associate, one english woman which is my dear friend and this website helped me at least not to curse your country every evening Iam going to bed. But feel of injustice remains and it realy hurts. And when afterall I finnaly saw place to calm anger and confort the feeling, you came with your magic wand.
You know, even that would not bother me if you would at least post something new, anything (fact, insult, libel...), but just new, and not insulting me and others with your over and over again reposts. Its not just me lady. In all previous topics you can see how many people try to convince you, answering any of your 'arguments'. And all you can do is, yet again, copy/paste.
And thank you for worrying about my fingers. Its realy harder to type instead of selecting.
Svemirko ...
Everything on this thread but the Balkans timeline is something I have not posted before. Stop lying. That includes quotations for the report YOU cited as clearing the Serbs when it did not, a report on anti-Semitism written by SERB reporters, etc.
Maybe instead of hating Americans, NATO, and everybody else you can think of you could just do what both Trifkovic and Kostunica have done: deplore the violence Milosevic got you guys into with his insanity. Turn over Mladic and Karadzic.
You know, Srdja Trifkovic, Prime Minister Kostunica's principal advisor, was PUBLICLY AND OPENLY criticizing Milosevic for his ultranationalism and violence as early as 1991. Had guys listened then, none of this would have happened and Kosovo would still be part of Serbia.
Victimhood about your own actions and dragging up everything you can find from 1350 forward is not going to excuse what was done, and Kosovo was lost by your own hand. And it's a shame.
And my saying so does not give you the right to claim I am a "dirty Islamist" and a "Nazi" and a "taqiyyah" Muslim, none of which is true.
And that's why your posts get deleted. I have a right to honestly-held (and damned well-researched) opinion, and I'll not have the right or the expression of it taken from me by the likes of you or Infidel Pride or anyone else.
And try reading some of your own posts for a total lack of any resonponsibility and a huge amount of self-pity and tell me if you think that is a position from which a man or a country can craft a future.
The Trooley Square massacre has not been found to have a SHRED of connection to any Islamist group.
True. But that didn't stop the Bosnian attendees to his funeral - most of them total strangers - from 'forgiving' him for his murders.
Like Debbie Schlussel pointed out, we supported the wrong side.
Morgaan Sinclair
"It's clear I know a great deal more about this conflict than you."
Really do tell. You appear to be clueless that nothing in this world happens in a box. The jihadist are using Kosovo, Bosnia, the Balkins in general to futhur their objective of world wide conquest. Why is that so hard to understand?
"You never answer with anything substantive at all, are completely unaware of the politics on the Serb far-right that is right now designing a new war, and apparently have no compassion for people at all if they're not of the right ethnicity or religion for you."
I know full well about the far-right Serbs BUT that still does not change the fact that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I have compassion for my civilization. I want my people (westerners) to live and succeed. The Serbs have a right to defend their lands from invasion. Kosovo is their land.
"My goal here is to prevent another wholesale slaughter in the Balkans, one that will draw Al Qaeda there worse than they were drawn to Iraq. You don't want to go there. Because if you do, there WILL be a Wahhabi satellite there, not because the Albanians or the Bosnians want it, but because the Serbs will have made sure that they, as extremely Europeanized pluralistic Sufis, are robbed of the strength to prevent it."
Nonsense! By seperating Kosovo you only encourage more islamist coming to the party. It proves there way works. You are asking for peace at any cost. Once again Islamism is not just promoted by Wahhabis but includes all MAINSTREAM Islamic groups.
"There are only three real possibilities for the development of a schismatic liberal Hanafi fiqh that throws out the hadith and bad verses of the Qur'an: progressive thinking in Turkey (NOT Erdogan), Islam lite in Indonesia in the non-Aceh provinces that invented the Pancasila doctrine, and Sufi Islam in the Balkans. Of all of them, Sufi Islam in the Balkans stands the best chance of being an Islam that we can live with over the long haul."
Turkey controls things by the army overthrowing the democratic elected governments and locking up people whenever they get the urge to go jihadi. Turkey as has been pointed out is not a light or beacon of western tolarance. Indonesia just released the bali bombers and gave a slap on wrist for the guys who beheaded those christian school girls. Sufi Islam is no answer either.
See..
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005701.php
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004940.php
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/05/sufi_jihad.html
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21477&only
I can supply plenty more if you want.
"Again, the conflicts in the Balkans are not principally religious. They are ethnic, nothwithstanding the efforts of the Serbs now to paint them as religious for their own benefit."
It is religious now Morgaan even if you fail to accept that. The Arabs have already influenced the population because they are muslim. All muslims on earth (as Robert has pointed out) can be pulled by the jihadist because they have the Quran backing them up. You can pretend it is ethnic but the truth is it is religious. It always has been and always will be.
Why not instead of trying to reform the muslims instead help Serbians fight against the far right parties. Get them to make peace with Croates. You have a much better chance of reforming Serbs then Muslims. Serbs despite your hatred for them have no faith based doctrine that tells them to kill and subdue their foes. They have no world wide ambitions. Yes they are a little paranoid but I think they have a right to be considering they have been sold out by everyone throughout history.
Once again if you have a majority muslim state it is only a matter of time before they go jihadi. Kosovo is no different.
Morgaan Sinclair
"Actually, I think the UN should continue to administer it for a period of 25 years."
Hahahahaahahahahahahahahaha!
You do jest right! The Islamist controlled UN. The same UN who is trying to stick it to Israel. The same UN who has in the last 30 years screwed up everything they have ever done. You mean that UN?
Thanks for the laugh.
I don't bother reading Morgaan Sinclairs anti Serb rants anymore.
As for someone above who asked about the Former Yugoslavia Republic of Macedonia the Albanians have taken over large portions of that country and civil war there will be a reality at some point.
The Albanian areas fly Albanian flags within this country and with the help of the Morgaan's in this world we will see the greater Albanian concept become a reality in Europe.
The question is how much bloodshed will there be to achieve this goal? We also know by the posts seen here that many will blame the Serbs, Slav Macedonians, Greeks and anyone else that get swallowed up in this conflict.
If anyone here doesn't know what the Greater Albanian Concept is, just do a few searches on it, you'll find all sorts of stuff including maps of what they believe is theirs.
Briefly the maps show large portions of Serbia, Montenegro, all of Albania of course, FYRM, and the northern portions of Greece. So much for the bullshit arguments that the Serbs are the ones with territorial goals. These maps incidentally have been found on the bodies of UCK/KLA soldiers.
Anyway that all I've got to say on this, I'm tired of reading the anti Serb stuff, I'm going to mow my lawn now.
"If Serbia would like to regain its reputation, it MUST turn over Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić to the War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague for prosecution on charges of mass murder and torture"
Posted above by an apologist for Albanian Al-Qaeda atrocities against Serbian Christians.
Serbia should have only pride in its reputation. They have been crucified for the "crime" of defending Christian civilization when no one else dared. They dare not turn over Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić to be lynched. These men are heroes just like Don Juan of Austria, El Cid, or Charles Martel.
As for the incidents of anti-Semitism you outlined above, the same can be found in any European nation. Serbia is a free country and as in any free country you will find unsavory individuals who take advantage of that freedom. Similar anti-semitic expressions exist in France, the UK, and the USA. These are just sick ideas confined to the irrelavant fringe.
Most of the anti-semitic publications and activities come out of either the Hungarian minority in northern Serbia, anti-Christian "pagan revivalists" or from the Serbian Muslim minority where antisemitism is ingrained. If you really want to see where anti-semitism is ingrained in the culture, just look at any group of Balkan Muslims.
Morgaan - I'm all for being encyclopaedic, but unfortunately I'm mortal. Couldn't you edit your posts a little?
Actually Provoslavni, you must have missed the celebration in Bosnia of the 500th anniversary of the arrival of the Sephardic Jews, brought to safety by the Ottoman Sultanate after they were expelled from Spain by Isabella and Philip in 1492.
It was a grand celebration in which the Sephardic Jews expressed great gratitude to all the peoples of the Balkans, but particularly the Muslims, for saving European Judaism from slaughter.
And the Serbs weren't defending Christianity. They were defending their own greed. Otherwise the Orthodox church wouldn't have started screaming bloody murder as early as 1991 that the Serbs were on the WRONG track -- and they wouldn't have issued a declaration last year EXCORIATING the priests who blessed the paramilitaries and absolved them of murder BEFORE THE FACT when they were on the way to Srebrenica.
Don't call this a religious war on the part of the Serbs. The vast majority of the Serb Orthodoxy was against this war of aggression from the beginning, which is much to their credit.
This was a series of wars about lust for power and greed.
Perusing the interminable postings I found the logical crux of her argument. She posted thus:
"A casual surf of right-wing web sites in Serbia reveals an abundance of anti-Semitic literature and propaganda."
You don't have to be a logician to understand what this effectively means. It means nothing more than that anti-Semites are anti-Semitic. It is an 'analytic' statement that says nothing about the empirical world. And that's a polite way of describing it. Right-wing web-sites are full of anti-Semitic propaganda everywhere, America particularly.
Morgaan Sinclair
Keep it up Morgaan!
How will a Muslim run Kosovo help Western Civilization?
Lets see do I want Muslims running Kosovo or Serbs running Kosovo?
Man that is a hard choice....
I think I will take the Serbs.
Serbia: Don’t Mention the War
Bos-Hrv-Srp
Journalists and NGOs face bombs threats, beatings and insults if they probe too deeply into Serbia’s role in the Balkan wars.
By Tanja Matic in Belgrade
Serbian media outlets and NGOs campaigning for the country to face up to its recent past are enduring a hate campaign, which they claim police and government are making no effort to stop.
Journalists and NGO workers claim the death threats, assaults and racist graffiti common in the Milosevic era have made an unwelcome return in the past year, all with the tacit approval of the authorities.
Among the targets have been the Humanitarian Law Fund, the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights in Serbia, the Youth Initiative for Human Rights, RTV B92, the daily paper Danas, the weekly news magazine Vreme and others who opposed Milosevic’s policies in the Nineties, and today insist that crimes committed during the Balkan wars be openly discussed.
In the latest incident, B92 received an anonymous text message on October 16 saying a bomb had been planted in a garbage can in front of the building.
That the warning came during an interview with the local Helsinki Committee president Sonja Biserko seems too much of a coincidence. A previous bomb threat was made when Humanitarian Law Fund director Natasa Kandic appeared as a guest on a programme about crime in Bosnia.
B92 was also exposed to a verbal assault in mid-August when journalist Ana Veljkovic asked Serbian government minister Velja Ilic at a press conference why criminal charges against Marko Milosevic, the son of Slobodan Milosevic, had been dropped.
Ilic responded with insults and threats. “Listen, we've come here to do a very serious job, and you ladies and gentlemen from B92, whenever you come, you wreak havoc, you make some provocation,” he said. “You're sick. You're for a psychiatric clinic. You should be cured collectively.”
In a recent report on such attacks against the media and NGOs, the Humanitarian Law Fund said, “NGOs and media outlets which advocate the establishment of the rule of law and bringing to justice those who have violated other people’s human rights in the past, are exposed to insults, threats and attacks by nationalist political parties, extreme nationalist political groups, some media and individuals glorifying indicted war criminals Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic, Slobodan Milosevic and Vojislav Seselj.
“The Serbian government has not yet responded to this, which further encourages extremists in the Serbian parliament and other institutions to call on members of the public to display hostility towards treacherous NGOs and media.”
IWPR/BIRN asked the Serbian government to comment on the wave of intimidation, but none was forthcoming. A spokesman for the police said that they were investigated the reported incidents, but would not say how much progress they’d made.
In Serbia, NGOs and independent media in the Nineties were often exposed to abuse at the hands of the police and were frequently labeled as “foreign mercenaries” or “a fifth column”.
After the ousting of Slobodan Milosevic in 2000, pressure exerted by state institutions came to an abrupt halt, but recently verbal and other forms of aggression have once again been on the rise.
Nazi swastikas were sprayed on both the Humanitarian Law Fund and the Helsinki Committee headquarters along with graffiti calling Biserko a “Jewish pawn” and a “humble servant of the Jewish world order”. Graffiti declaiming “Serbia for the Serbs” accompanied by a traditional national Serb symbol defaced the committee’s office door.
Similar graffiti regarding Jewish sympathies was written about Kandic, whose Humanitarian Law Fund is unpopular with the Serbian Radical Party, SRS, after it made allegation that the party’s vice-president, Tomislav Nikolic, was involved in war crimes committed in Croatia.
The deputy head of the SRS caucus group in the Serbian parliament, Aleksandar Vucic, publicly labeled Kandic “a pathological liar and criminal gang leader waging a campaign against the Serbs”.
The Women in Black, a Belgrade-based NGO, said they received a recent visit from a police officer who questioned them about the number of their employees, their working hours, visitors and the group’s associates.
"We were hoping this repression would stop once the Milosevic’s dictatorship collapsed,” the group said in a statement. “However, with the coalition headed by Vojislav Kostunica now in power we have once again become interesting for the security services and dangerous – most probably because we have persisted in our efforts to fight denial of the criminal past and bring the perpetrators to justice.”
Andrej Nosov, director of the Youth Initiative for Human Rights, believes the Serbian authorities are reluctant to send a clear message to the public that those responsible for the attacks will be punished.
“Violence is being induced directly from the system,” he said.
“If we have a minister for capital investments who openly insults and threatens the RTV B92 director and journalists, if we have senior officials insulting members of non-governmental organisations, then this is a clear signal to those who are on the opposite of the political spectrum from our position,” said Nosov.
Natasa Esbjornosn, director of the Swedish Helsinki Committee office in Belgrade, shares this view.
“When people in the parliament are allowed to attack and verbally abuse NGOs and media outlets with impunity then they are sending a message to everybody else that this way of conduct is perfectly all right.
“The absence of any response by the government and police is indeed unusual because they are not reacting to something which would be considered totally unacceptable in the society where I come from.”
Nosov believes special interest and lobby groups are behind these attacks, as they were during the wars of the Nineties.
“The campaign being waged against us ... is linked to the state apparatus from the Milosevic era,” he claimed.
“There are people in the secret police and the Serbian interior ministry who are afraid ... they might be exposed, and they are doing everything in their power ... to attack everyone who deals with facing up to the recent past.
“They live in fear that the truth might come to light, and their main problem is that their horrid secrets are slowly being unraveled.”
Biserko, who has been physically assaulted and her apartment broken into, said, “ These attacks are ever more frequently targeting those who are critical of certain policy issues in Serbia. It’s as if someone’s trying to curb any criticism or critical thinking in Serbia.”
Despite the problems, Biserko is optimistic about the future.
She points out that Serbia has been given a green light for the talks on stabilisation and association with the European Union, which she hopes will mean the state will be forced to deal with civil society sector in a more professional manner.
“I believe the status of non-governmental organisations will significantly improve thanks to the process of European integration as Europe will need partners in this country who are thoroughly pro-European,” she said.
To that end, amendments to the criminal code were adopted two weeks ago to bring domestic legislation in line with European standards. The revisions make it a crime to attack or offend any person or organisation that advocate equal rights for the country’s citizens.
Esbjornson considers the passage of these amendments a step forward, though is pessimistic they will ever be implemented.
“Many laws have been adopted here so far, but they are not being enforced,” she said. “It is necessary to change the consciousness of the people and raise their awareness before the application of the law, but I fear Serbia is at very beginning of this process.”
Tanja Matic is an IWPR/BIRN reporter in Belgrade.
schmegel
Correct! I guess that mean David Duke is a representive of American public opinion!
Morgaan Sinclair
Have you ever heard of links?
All ... I did not write the following, nor am I guilty of it:
"A casual surf of right-wing web sites in Serbia reveals an abundance of anti-Semitic literature and propaganda."
GreatCometofMars,Jupiter,andAsteroidBelt
Yes, I'm kidding about the UN administering Kosovo.
Serbs running Kosovo will mean war, and Europe won't stand for it. They had it before, and they're not going to have it again. I don't want another 250,000 dead on another Serb lie.
Links are nice. Full, unexpurgated versions are much better when people are lying as fast as the Krebs cycle can deliver energy to their vocal cords.
"Actually Provoslavni, you must have missed the celebration in Bosnia of the 500th anniversary of the arrival of the Sephardic Jews, brought to safety by the Ottoman Sultanate"
asked by Morgaan Sinclair.
Wow! Bosnian Muslims celebrating the Ottoman Sultanate in order to make Muslims look good. That should surprize us! Well where are those Jews now?
Here's the facts
In 1923, 10,000 Jews lived in Bosnia, and in 1926, 13,000 resided there. By 1941, Bosnia-Herzegovina was home to approximately 14,000 Jews. By the end of World War II, only 4,000 Bosnian Jews were still alive. Jews were killed both by Nazi Germans and Bulgarian Muslims who assisted in the Jewish extermination (From the Jewish Virtual Library).
For a more complete history of Bosnian Jewry see the entire entry:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bosnia.html
also see:
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/bosnia.html
and: "Serbs, Jews and Bosnia: a Holocaust Survivor Speaks" at:
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/ranz/July95.html
and a documented account of how your beloved Bosnian and Kosovo Albanian Muslims who, as SS soldiers, not only burned Serbian villages, churches with the people to the ground but also murdered most of the Bosnian Jews.
http://www.kosovo.net/hist2.html
This last link listed is one of the most complete sites on the documented history of Balkan Muslims and their holocaust of Jews and Serbs.
Oh dear. I've found some complete inaccurate gibberish in one of Morgaan's posts. Here it is:
"Chechnya has a long and complicated history with the Russians, who force-marched many out of the country when they took it over. In the 1990s Chechnya elected a non-Islamic independence-minded person. Russia assasinated him. The local independence movement was NOT Islamic to begin with, but became so with the introduction by the Wahhabis of Basheyev, who made it thus, assassinating BTW the moderate Muslim there whom Putin had erroneously conflating with an Islamist movement to begin with. Putin is largely responsible for the mess that is in Chechnya now, and given now that the movement has been infiltrated by Wahhabis, I would say Russia should hang onto it, becuase Al Qaeda LOVES A VACUUM of any kind. They can exploit such a vacuum at the drop of a hat.
Should Georgia give up Abkazia? No.
Should North Ossetia be given up to Islam? Don't know."
The only remotely accurate statement there is the answer to the last question. 'Don't know' is the only thing that Morgaan should have said on this entire thread.
The Russian force-marched the Chechens out of their country during World War II, 150 years after 'they took it over'.
The Chechens won their first war of independence in the 1990s, and had de facto independence between 1996 and 1999. This is before Putin came to power. During this period of independence the country's economy was largely based on kidnapping people from the surrounding regions, torturing and murdering them if ransoms were not paid. More to the point, however, is that this Chechen government, run by president Maskhadov with Basayev (you call him Basheyev for some reason) as one of his ministers, instituted Sharia Law in Chechnya. They invited Jihadist Wahabites from Arabia to train there, and exchanged military contacts with the Taliban in Afghanistan.
In 1999 the Basayev involved himself with a invasion and Islamist uprising in part of the neighbouring republic of Dagestan (yes Islamist, Sharia Law was instituted in a number of towns). When this was crushed by the Russians, the Islamists blew up two residential apartment blocks in Moscow, killing hundreds of people in the middle of the night sleeping in their beds. After this the Russians re-invaded Chechnya, and the second Chechen war of the 1990s began. The new prime-minister, Putin, took charge of this operation, and became President of Russia five months later (January 1 2000).
Basayev and Maskhadov became resistance fighters again. Basayev went on to command the Beslan school massacre in North Ossetia.
He chose this place, because North Ossetia is a Christian republic, the nearest Christian republic to Chechnya. Morgaan doesn't seem to know it is Christian, and so can even entertain the bizarre question - should North Ossetia be given over to Islam? If you don't know about something keep quiet about it!
And why is Morgaan so sure in her opinions about Abkhazia, i.e. that Georgia shouldn't give it up. It has had de facto indepence since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the vast majority of its people want it to be independent from Georgia (most of them have chosen to have Russian passports to protect them from Georgian ethnic cleansing). Georgian aggression here is supported by the US, as Georgia is currently anti-Russia and pro-American, and Russia is supporting the Abkhazians.
Putin said, 'Why should Kosovo be granted independence and Abkhazia denied it?' It's a reasonable question that would mystify the Morgaans of this world. The West's double standards here are a result of its anti-Russian and anti-Serbian bias. This has a geo-political basis, as there is no powerful Islamic state, but Russia is still seen as a threat.
Incidentally, Morgaan, Izetbegovich (president of Bosnia-Hertzegovina in the 1990s) invited hundreds of Arabic Wahabite Jihadists to fight against the Serbs.
I don't have much time to post right now but I will note this interesting Key Observation, According to Morgaan, Serb action during WW2 in their Defense of the Jews and their Rescue of 500+ airmen which I have pasted links to Richard L. Felman's speech as well as others as testament isn't a good example of Serb Behavior some 60 odd years ago.
However the fact that The Bosnians Celebrate an Act of kindness by the Ottoman Empire 500 YEARS ago qualifies them as philo-semitic?
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/arabnazi.html
The above link is to Information Regarding Muslim Nazis the pertinent quote is the following
"To show gratitude towards his hosts, in 1943 the Mufti travelled several times to Bosnia, where on orders of the SS he recruited the notorious "Hanjar troopers," a special Bosnian Waffen SS company which slaugh-tered 90% of Bosnia's Jews and burned countless Serbian churches and villages. These Bosnian Muslim recruits rapidly found favor with SS chief Heinrich Himmler, who established a special Mullah Military school in Dresden."
Makes for an interesting perspective wouldn't you say?
Spectacles:
Can you cite a CURRENT example to match the CURRENT examples of Serb anti-Semitism I have posted?
When you post examples only from the past, you make my case for me every time. Serbia has a CURRENT problem in its attitude toward those of other ethnic origins.
The Sephardic Jews won't be forgetting that the Ottomans saved them in 1492 as it meant the survival of the race.
BTW, the Bosnian SS unit -- the one and only one of them -- was shipped to France, where they mutinied and refused to fight. I don't know who wrote this website you quote from, but I would need to see a little more substantial documentation. I quite understand the Mutfi of Jerusalem was the anti-Christ, however.
@ Morgaane
Ah you are realy tiresome person. Ok. Lets roll.
*First; lets stik to your SERB reporters. Yeah they are serbs by nationality and nothing else. Actually, thats whole bunch of parasites for whome I have long time said: If there is not miloshevic they nedeed him to be invented. Or to put simplify for yor brain:'you are a serb who graduate some high school. You only want to work some job with the gloves. So you jump in some ngo, writte as much as possible articles how bleak and ugly is nature of your society (cos ngo's exist to critisize own society).Than somebody, who need that articles notice you, start to send you support, than money. You see yorselfe getting financial help, say 1000$ a month in country where average salary is just 250 $.You begin to live as a king. Your only job is to constantly type: we are guilty. we done this when we should done that. we got to dump miloshevic...Than one day you see that mioshevic is going down the sewage. What will you do? I mean, you are a parasite, you have just lost your host. You got to find the another one.So lets attack the another guy. You, know those ugly Kostunica whom we support when we need any politician who never mess with miloshevic just to owerthrown very same miloshevic. Now he is not true democrat, never to be in communist party. Now he is new miloshevic. Burn him. And in process, you can again live as king publishing columnes: 'suffer serbia, you deserve it','you can never change'... and since that kind of story is always needed to someone (there is not just one morgaane sinclair in the world), you can relax, and continue your enjoyment in american taxpayer dolar influx.
So much about your serbian/my domestic parasites
*Second;Its realy gruesom your attack over entire nation and its state of minde because some ngo report some antijewish graffiti in Belgrade ar some other town. Its amazing that these graffitis occure every time when there is serbian elections or something unusual in country. But anyway, what are you try to imply by that? You in united states dont have guys speaking against jews. Belive me lady, I can bet cair have REALY much, much more power in U.S. than some serbian defence ligue, for whom (I can swear on the Bible for this) I have heared for the first time only thanks to you. But the other name you have mentioned Ratibor Djurdjevic is much more interesting. I never meet the guy personaly, but I did know one of men who work for him during 90. In Serbia there is barely, perhaps, few thousand man ever heared about ratibor.He publish antisemite books, and all that antizionist trash. Actually he is very keen to attack masons (he called them judeomasons), and blame them for any possible conspiracy.Whats more interesting, he was, for a long time settled in u.s., and it was initialy provided and sleek with very same masons. From some reason, unknown to me, he is now their grate advisory (althoug he is kind of adversary to whome actually anybody can just wish).But many things I have heared about him, I heared thanks to the guy who worked with him.And that guy is a catholic croat, and as much I have listened from him stroies against jewish race, I have listened the same stories against serbians.After many beers we have drink one one occasion, he just tell me what is the real difference between serbs and jews:"jews are evil and inteligent, serbs are just evil and supid which in a final result is far worst option".And belive me, it was not ratibor who went to him, but he was went to ratibor.
(On a very simmilar attitude about toward serbs and jews go to wiki and read about Ante Starchevic-croatian, catholic version of George Washington-that was one of thing you have delited among many others.Or that was slanderous to you too).
*Three; I heve never deny fact that we serbs have done a lot of crimes during 90. Iam not proud for, say, burnt sarajevo library. Ah lady, you got me wrong. But I am sick and tired with your timeline that all this started in the year 1989. No honey. For all us in balkans, serbs, croats, muslims whatever, every war is just extension of previous. You are so blinde to any single serbian suffering, but very keen to any nonserbian misfortune. Try next time to make longer timeline, not from your cynical 1350, but just 1900. It would look very different.
*Fourth; I have never wrote that I hate americans, and if I would like to hang around over websites owned by people whome I hate, than belive me, I would rather than waste my time on some albanian or bosnian site than this one. I just think that you try to input me hatred toward americans as just you have tryed to explain that you are here today on this post cos' I called you ad homminem. No Morgaane, I dont hate americans (with exeption of few of them, but I dont see that should bother anyone, cos its not among this blogers). But I do hate nato as an organization, and I think that I have any reason for that. I only hope we will never be members of it, never.
*Fifth; Dont bother me with miloshevic story. You dont know him, but I do. I mean not personaly, but via teargas and truncheon.If he just listened millions of us who protest against him since march.9.1991 (btw before war), maybe everything would be different. But somehow I doubt.We dump miloshevic, we change policy, but somehow america didnt change policy toward us. How is that. Miloshevic is dead, but kosovo still cannot be serbian. Not even with policy advocated by fm Vuk Draskovic, to aplly Taiwan system. We will give anything to albanians except, borders, army and seat in un. But even that is too much. So I think morgaane its quite different. You know, I think that you think that I and rest of serbdom (exluding serbs like those from ngo) are nothing but petty prorussian clowns (you remember russians, your american WORST enemy as you have said yesterday).Go on morgaane. Wage your war with russians. Maybe you and alike succeed where medeval templars, napoleon and germans have failed. I know you are sorry cos of that, but yup baby, thats the way it is. Every time when you look at the east (little bit toward north), youll see some bearded russian, halfdrunk with red star on his hat. But, if I am you, I would think it can be worst. Far worst lady. It can be some sober, very sober muslim.With very clean beard. And somhow I am convinced he will not share same feelings about america, as average russian did.
*Sixth; Yes Kosovo is (partly) lost by our hand AND ITS A SHAME. But its far worst shame your malicios joy over it. That lost was not payed by miloshevic rothing in jail, but by most poorest (and most devouted) christian community in Europe.If you have read a front article instead my comment, you would see how Kosovo was actually lost. And now actually its start to happening on your own backdoor. Just remember those guy talovic (who gundown five americans). Very next day, some other americans start to send flowers and condolecens not to his victims but to his parents. AAHHHH, that brings a lot of memories and feelings.You are actually sick lady, and I dont mean on you personaly, I mean on your large portion of society. And it reminds me how sick actually we were here at that time, only our sickness have diffrent name-communism. Everything for brothehood and unity. And when one day communist (I found that you called them liberals or democrats) destroy your country, trying to civilized uncivilized, it will be far worst disaster than this (our) serbian. Cos we are small, and thus never achived so much as america did. But you were grate and your fallout will be far far worst for entire civilisation than ours. And shamefull. But if that day cames, guess to whom fingers will be pointed. Not on us baby. We serbs may be long gone. Nor it will be neocons or reps.Nor russians. Nor it will be muslims, cos after all, they do whats their prophet tell them to do. Its simply the nature of that religion. It will be you fault morgaane, and millions of "unsatisfyed' westerners like you whose vision about 'happy mankinde from the star trek' has led everything to disaster.(If you want to understand what Iam trying to say and since you have confessed your catholicism, than please read Proverbs 16.25)
*Seventh; I never called you dirty islamist, nazi, or taqqia white. Repost what you have delited, so that we can all finde that words.That would imply that I admit you your honnesty. And I would never admit that.
*Eight; Yes YOU HAVE A RIGHT to tell as much as you like your oppinion, and even if I would own this site, I wouldnt bother that. As I can remember I never ask for ban any of your copy/paste masterpieces. Specially not this last one. I just react yesterday simply because you are so boring with your effort to whitewash islam and drop everything on one smaller part of it called wahabism. Lady you dont need jihadwatch or dhimmiwatch. You need something like wahabiwatch, and I strongly advise you to use your copy/paste skills and start some site with such a name. Maybe we can than and there find simmilar oppinion.And I wonder what was hurt you more in my obliterated post: to tell that your attitude: 'where there is no wahabies there is no jihad' is fundamentaly wrong, or my attitude: 'where are serbs there is no jihad at all' is fundamentaly right?
*Nine; No, I usualy dont read my previous postings, cos I alwas follow my heart. Words and thought just rush in.Maybe there is something irresponsible, but at least is honest. Considering selfpity, well actually lady I more pity you and alike, cos at least I know who my real enemyes are. You dont. But what can I do. Iam pessimist by nature, you are quite the opposite. You think that everything will settle by it self. Just more money with more education, and islam, I meant jihad (uups wahabis) will evaporate by default.No it want.But lucky you. Youll not live to see the results and benefits to civilisation of 'responsibility' and goodwillingness of geniuses like yourself.
Svemirko ...
The truth is that not everybody thinks the same way, and I'm not talking about cultural or linguistic anthropology here.
Some people think rationally.
Some people think with their emotions.
Some people think with their prejudices.
Some people think superficially.
Some people think deeply.
And every imaginable permutation thereof.
I think you thinking with your emotions and your prejudices -- chiefly because you are in a tremendous amount of pain.
But I can't say I believe that the Serbs were justified in opening all the old wounds and creating all kinds of conflict and pain in the Balkans. I just can't say that.
What is true for the majority of Serbs, I think, is that they are still in denial about it, and the article I posted about the intimidation that has been going on for people who try to talk about it is not the rubbish you would like to pretend it is.
That said, another war is only going to bring more dead and more pain. The result of the next war will be the loss of Serbia altogether. Because the other groups in the Balkans will not stand for one more war started over Serb hegemony.
You are looking at the end of Serbia as a nation if you try it again. And as much as you want to sell the proposition that it's just those horrible Sufis -- whom you ally wholesale with the Wahhabis who believe they're apostates! -- it's not: It's the Catholic Croats and Othodox scattered throughout the Balkans who don't want to see Mladic and Karadzic showing up in THEIR neighborhoods, either.
Please see a documentary called "Children of Kosovo" for a message from all the children in the Balkans.
As everybody understands the Balkans are excluded from the so-called War on Terror.In the Balkans US is an ally of the Muslims.
There are four Orthodox Christian - Muslim conflicts in the area.
Where there is a Muslim majority(Kosovo,Bosnia) US supports majority rule and strong central government that is the Muslims.Moreover it says that Muslim Albanians in Kosovo have the right to secede but the Bosnian Serbs have not the same right.
Where there is an Orthodox Christian majority (Macedonia,Cyprus) US supports minority rights,decentralisation,division and a weak central government,that is again the Muslims.
Four cases in four cannot be symptomatic.
Balkan Christians have no stake in the War on Terror .
Actually Morgaan, you have no case, if you look in Bosnia or Kosovo you will also find a lack of Jews this is because they ran or were driven from a war that didn't concern them.
As for current events we have this:
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/Minister/Govori/061106_e.html
which was a speech in Israel thanking the Jewish Community for all their Contributions in Serbia.
And the Link Below is to an Interview with a Jew Fleeing KLA Brutality, if you notice when asked about Anti-semitism he reports that there was no sign of it in Kosovo from Serbs or Domestic Albanians however once the KLA Rolled in they began a Pogrom against, Serbs, Jews and Albanians Loyal to Yugoslavia while KFOR watched.
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm
Morgaan wrote: "It's the Catholic Croats and Othodox scattered throughout the Balkans who don't want to see Mladic and Karadzic showing up in THEIR neighborhoods, either"
Of course the Nazi Croats don't want anti-Nazi Chetniks showing up but almost all Orthodox support the Serbian freedom fighters.
I had some comments I wanted to make, but it got lost in the length of these posts.
Some things:
Morgaan Sinclair, I understand that you seem to get a lot of post directed at you, and that it must be quite hard to deal with all the flack, but I have a question I posted in another thread that I would like to have an answer to, since you bring up again, that wonderful Balkan Sufism is the best example of an Islam we can live with.
---------
"In what way can you guarantee that the moderate Muslims from Bosnia will remain secular, as well as their children? Obviously the Islam of the Koran, Sunnah, and Mohammad's example is far different than the "Europeanized Islam" that did not come out of Islam, but was forced on it from above by Communism.
"This is a serious issue. How to keep Bosnian Muslims safe, while keeping us safe? All it takes is someone preaching directly from the Koran to radicalize this population, some Saudi money."
----------------
Thanks for your response in advance.
Also, an issue:
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 29, 2007 09:35 AM
A highly educated man who became a symbol of Serbian thought, spiritualism and Orthodoxy, Velimirovic freely expressed his antisemitic beliefs in several of his works, including those − published repeatedly − from his days in Dachau concentration camp in 1945, where the German occupiers had imprisoned him because of the perceived threat he posed due to his promotion of Serbian strength and values and unity of the Orthodox world....
Um...was he under duress much like the UK sailor now being held by Iran, who was forced to admit on camera to the lie that they were in Iranian waters?
I am sure the Nazis would have forced him or "cajoled" him to write this, since the biggest threat the Nazis felt was the Jews.
Also:
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 29, 2007 11:13 AM
The people in the Balkans have been killing themselves over ethnicity -- not religion -- for 900 years. Now the Serbs try to claim that it's now "religion". It isn't. It's ethnic hatred and needs to be dealt with as such.
Er, no, for the Turks it was all about religion. This was not some irredentist expansion.
Also, Schmegel, I think maybe Morgaan is thinking about Dudayev the first Chechen leader, not Basayev and Maskhadov. He was assassinated by a Russian rocket in the mid-90s.
And Morgaan, and though true that this war did not have a religious tinge at first, as the Chechens started getting their backs against the wall in 1995, Dudayev started to find religion. Was he religious per se? No he thought Muslims prayed 3 times a day, but he started to use Islam as a means to get foreign money and fighters. This conflict became a religious conflict quite quickly.
Take care everyone
PS. I support everyone’s right to post here, unless someone is being rude. Morgaan Sinclair's posts should not be deleted.
npabga ...
Thanks for the civility of your posts. I can't answer it all right now as I have a HUGE paper due tonight and another one in two days and have a lot of writing to do on them.
One note, however. Maskhadov and Basheyev were opposed to one another. Basheyev is the Wahhabi that created Beslan. Basheyev also turned Maskhadov over to the Russians, who shot him, with the smear that Maskhadov was also a Wahhabi. No, he wasn't. He fought Basheyev who was set up there by the Wahhabis to take control of an insurrection against a Russian assassination and turn it into an Islamist movement.
Basically the problem for the ex-Soviet Union, and therefore for Putin, is that immediately upon its break-up everybody who could got out: Uzbekistan, Tajistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Yugoslavia. Only the Chechens got attacked, and Putin managed it by claiming, well before it happened, that it was Wahhabized. Putin's attempt to tie Maskhadov to Wahhabism was utterly futile, but before Maskhadov died his worst nightmares materialized.
Some of Maskhadov's closest associates were not only completely corrupt but had ties to Basheyev, and had targeted the Chechen independence movement to Wahhabize early on. When four telecommunications workers were slaughtered and a Russian diplomat kidnapped, it wasn't Maskhadov who did it, but it may as well have been.
The Chechen economy took a nosedive, the Russians attacked, Basheyev engineered Beslan and probably the Moscow theatre attack. Maskhadov, who was by this time in hiding, was betrayed by Basheyev, who sold him to the Russians. Maskhadov was then shot by the Russians and his body taken so there could be no grave for anybody, including his wife, to visit.
I am of the opinion that Putin manipulated the situation, beginning with the assassination of a pro-independence President, and then basically gave Chechnya to Basheyev for the death of the popular Maskhadov. In that, he created the situation his PR demanded and that would give him an excuse to hold on to the last remaining Soviet satellite.
However, now that the Basheyev is in control there, better the Russians keep Chechnya as they will, of course, since Putin has been sleeping with Basheyev (figurative speaking) for years.
Gone now ...
But no matter. You guys are blind as bats and deaf as posts, and you will keep at it until there is another war, a war promised to me, BTW, from a poster who said that the aim of all good Serbs at this time is to do enough disinformation in the United States to get away with another war, this time bringing the United States in on the Serb side.
I take this man at his word.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
I hope he is right. Information, disinformation, shmisinformation. it all depends on your motives.
The dar-al-islam disseminates their taquiyya [disinformation] among us using an army of paid hirelings and earnestly misguided dhimmis.
A little Serbian disinformation to balance all of this kitman and you write with this much vitriol?
I really have to wonder whose side you are on.
And I really don't care what fancy institution you work at. That sort of thing intimidates noone here. I've met plenty of these Ivy League Nut jobs here in New York and I'll take a state or city college graduate anytime over one of the brainwashed ivies.
Germany made huge mistakes picking fights agains the Serbs several times. the United States should not follow down the same mistaken path.
I say we "offer" the Russians a Serbian Solution [which in thruth would also be good for us] in exchange for their assistance with our Iraian problem [which would also be good for the Russians].
This way both the US and Russia can "save face" while rectifying their former mistakes.
And Russia and the USA move into closer alliance at the same time.
We need to solidify our Bullwark against islam. There is no bullwark without Russia.
Turkey is in NATO - what a joke!
We are doing all many foolish things on behalf of our traditional enemy Turkey - simply because we want a "base" close to Russia?
This is "old thinking".
We much more need Russia as a "base" against islam.
The Russians and the Serbians are all sane and logical people.
Can't say the same thing about the islamos.
The choice is clear.
Let us make it while we can.
I can't believe how stupid the Western Europeans are being about all of this. Look at a map of this area - and this is just a 'heartbeat' away from Western Europe. I guess that hole in the sand must be pretty comfortable.
And I can't end this note without saying that everyone should say thank you to - Clinton, Albright and General Weseley Clark for their hard work at helping islam out in their endeavor to slaughter the Serbs. Yes, the muslims were so grateful that Clinton has a little monument somewhere in that area. (I forget the exact location) - read 'The Revenge of the Prophet' for the scoop on all of this.
Morgaan Sinclair,
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 29, 2007 04:19 PM
Just a note, but I feel maybe your timeline is a bit off, either that, or we are just not clear on what Chechen war that we are talking about.
Basically the problem for the ex-Soviet Union, and therefore for Putin, is that immediately upon its break-up everybody who could got out: Uzbekistan, Tajistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Yugoslavia. Only the Chechens got attacked, and Putin managed it by claiming, well before it happened, that it was Wahhabized. Putin's attempt to tie Maskhadov to Wahhabism was utterly futile, but before Maskhadov died his worst nightmares materialized.
I am talking about the Chechen war that lasted from 1994-1996 that ended with a Russian withdrawal until 1999, after the Chechen attack by Basayev on Dagestan, and with the start of round two, propelled the relatively unknown Putin to power.
During the first Chechen war, Putin was the head of this-and-that committee in St. Petersburg, and nothing to do with national policy.
In other words, I agree with schmegel factually concerning Chechnya, but would add that it became a religious conflict due to Dudayev, the first Chechen leader, looking to shore up a losing war of 1994-1996.
Also "only the Chechens got attacked" was because Dudayev wanted complete independence, refused to compromise like Tartarstan, the second to last autonomous region to sign an agreement with Moscow, and Russia's over confidence in its ability to subdue the Chechens.
Take care.
@ Morgaane
I agree (probably for very first time) 100 % with your diagnose that 'The result of the next war will be the loss of Serbia altogether'. Only I dont see that as worst tragedy for us. Death is not the worst thing which may befall on man as individual or nation itself. With average birthrate far lower than any muslim, or life values composed from luxury, money, sex and hedonism this is certanly serbia which dont even need war to disappear. All what held us as christians under horrific conditions of islam, and all what helped that you chat with some with niknamed 'svemirko' and not 'salim' or 'osman', all that is simply pronounced as MYTH. And what we want, but just not to be hummiliated.And from albanians. it couldnt be worst. I dont know about your expiriance with albanians, but I would never give them full controll over anything.There is 100 years that they have a state, never to be interrupted by evils as we did, and still serbia is far ahead of them. They never suffered from kaisers nor fuhrers, nor they have miloshevic and nato overhead, and still thats the nation who claims to be most oldest in europe, but without any benefit or legacy for mankinde. Where is an albanian Tesla or Milankovic; Pupin or Andric?And now they earned themselves right for yet another attemt.
Yes, there are serbs who says 'lets give them kosovo and turn to eu', but I personaly despise them. And if I can find any single one of tham (and mostly they are persons you have mentioned like sonja biserko or natasha kandic), to be realy honest, I would realy for one moment reconsider my belifs. But I know they speak what they speak only cos they are cowards who always wait to somebodyelse to do a dirty job for tham. And even thats not worst, cos be a coward is something you can do nothing about. Fear is natural. But they are also simply lazy people, who find that talks about human rights is a most easyest way to earn money in some third grade country. And guess from where that money comes.
I think it was 2004. Few dosen serbs from kosovo,powerty beyond imagination in 21st cent europe (beside gypsies), came to Belgrade and held peacefull protest on the main square, where all protest against miloshevic were held in 90. Natasa kandic came out of nowhere, and then start discussion with people telling them they are nothing but pawns of Belgrade politicians. Imagine that. You live in constant fear for yourself and your kids, cos some albanian seeing you as slavic intruder and christian infidel, and now you hear that its some politician in belgrade to be blame. When people, knowing with whom they are dealing, ask her to just go and leave them to continue with protest, she suddenly slap one of them.It was an incident which shudder the nation. Was she punished?No way. Who can dare to prosecute her and draw all the anger of american administration over abuse of greatest serbian ngo fighter for human rights.Thats the girl on american government paycheck.
Now imagine just your country sliding to that, imagine you see entire parts of u.s. devoured by inhabitants who have nothing when they came in u.s., but gain after that everithing and still get mad. They kill, persecute and rape numerous americans, turn mountain rusmor to dust, send liberty statue to oblivion, and finally fight their new statehood. You see all the world supporting that. And than you just hear some americans saying: qe sera, sera. Give'm what they want and just move on.
Well, I belive there is holier things than 'move on' to better future.
NB:
The "Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 29, 2007 04:19 PM" should be below my first sentence.
If Israel not only retreats to the pre-'67 borders, but also asorbs millions of Arabs into such borders, will that 'final demand' calm down the Arabs, reform Islam, or will it embolden the Jihadis? Have Albanians calmed down now that they are in the driver's seat... will they bring peace to the Balkans, ushering in a golden age of dhimmitude? What do you think?
Posted by: biorabbi
That SOWdi 'peace proposal" is a supreme example of taqiyya. Israel has the RIGHT to allow immigration by ANYONE she chooses - most logical that the immigrants should be Jewish.
The SOWdi plan is basically genocide. The United Nazis.. er.. Nations will surely love this plan though!
The Albanians bring nothing good for anyone anywhere they come in Europe. They are thiefs and criminals. Ask any European who's not a wealthy leftist Dhimwit.
I realized why they are so evil when i found out they are members of the cult of islam.
And Morgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.. PUH-LEEZ don;t lecture us on the fine differences between 'sufis' and 'sunnis' and 'wahhabis'. They ALL want islam to dominate first - THEN they will hash out their differences among themselves, ie. divide the spoils.
I really have no idea where your anti-Serbian vitriol comes from. Have you ever met any in real life? The ones I met [mostly in Germany] were cool. I can't say the same for Turks and Bosnjaks and Albanjaks and others who follow the grifter mahomet [p*** be upon it].
As one poster above asked.. would you prefer a Serb-run Kosovo or one that is run by the islamis Bosnjaks?
Wow! I looked up the link where Morgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan rips into Hirsi Ali.
Wonder why she's not working for the UN. She wants to give Serbian Heartlands to islamists, she rips into Hirsi Ali.
What's next.
Too many HUGE PAPERS for the ol' ivy league?
I'd like to have some of the HUGE PAPERS she is smoking!
Proof that too much time in the Ivy League will muck up most anyone. She has that much as an excuse.
But this:
Muslim feminists point out that you'll find Hirsi Ali wherever there are flashbulbs -- but not where the rest of the Islamic feminists are ... with their boots on the ground in the most dangerous places in the world fighting one theological battle after another -- and winning -- saving one life after another in dusty courts in Nigeria and in the backroads of Mali and Malawi and Chad and Tunisia and Algeria -- and in the incredibly dangerous courts in Gaza.
Hirsi Ali, they say, wouldn't be caught dead there. But why should she when there's another cocktail party hosted at the dizzying heights of the pinnacles of the world?
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
Is not only dumb and outrageous. This doesn't belong here so all I will say to Morgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan is: why are you still studying at that Ivy league college of yours?
Hirsi Ali spent her entire adult life on the run and under death threats. She has made a nice amount of money with the books she wrote - creating a net benefit for the societies she has joined.
She has - like anyone else - every right to spend her money as she pleases, Morgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
She can even go to "cocktail parties" if she feels like it. Wow, bad girl Hirsi.. going to a cocktail party.
Bad Serbs.. defending their beleaguered country.
With friends like Morgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan...
Enough already. Put up or shut up. And note that the Serb judge on this court VOTED AGAINST TURNING OVER MLADIC.
It doesn't looking promising.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
Yes, it DOES look promising. Serbia is taking her Sovereignty seriously. Something the rest of us Europeans are no longer willing to do.
Besides, we need skilled and fearless fighters and leaders when the sh*t hits the fan.
I am GLAD the Serbs refuse to be COWED by the dhimmicrats in Brussels or Antwerp or wherever they have their stupid kangaroo courts.
Please see a documentary called "Children of Kosovo" for a message from all the children in the Balkans.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
Why don't you show it on 'Oprah' or on 'The View'? or maybe on one of those ripoff "charitinfomercials" we see on latenight TV.
Some fluffy puppies with big eyes won't get anyone to abandon Serbia. One day those puppies will come out of their mosk after Friday prayer and they'll be looking for churches and synagogues to burn and 'infidel' women to rape.
No THANKS!
One more thing.
[from above]
Where there is a Muslim majority(Kosovo,Bosnia) US supports majority rule and strong central government that is the Muslims.Moreover it says that Muslim Albanians in Kosovo have the right to secede but the Bosnian Serbs have not the same right.
Where there is an Orthodox Christian majority (Macedonia,Cyprus) US supports minority rights,decentralisation,division and a weak central government,that is again the Muslims.
Four cases in four cannot be symptomatic.
Balkan Christians have no stake in the War on Terror .
Posted by: athenian
I think I know the reason why. The SOWdis are paying off American Presidents both Clinton and Bush 41/43.
I have noticed the same thing.. the moslems are allowed in then they say they 'just want to build bridges'. I call them bridgeheads. Soon they ask for special rights then autonmy and then they will carve off a piece of your nation and claim it as an 'islamic republic'. See Pakistan - that used to be part of India.
When non-moslems want out they are massacred while NOONE steps in - see Biafra. They were Christians who were finally fed up living in a constant state of Civil War within Nigeria. Eqyptian air force pilots gleefully strafed the Christian Biafrans and NOONE stood up for them.
Whoever is pissing in our Western 'leaders' brains is certainly doing a great job!
Now we are selling out Serbia. Make no mistake about it.
They'll consolidate their power and 'islamic ties' in Kosovo and provoke thinks with Serbia - just like they are doing in Pakistan now.
THEY ARE LIKE THE BORG!!!
doesn't matter soonie, loonie, soofie, shiyte or whatnot!!!!!
THEY ARE THE BORG!!!!!!
next they'll focus on Italy and Spain. Will they do a Hitler and avoid Switzerland or will their Fifht Column have infiltrated Helvetia sufficiently before they take on Germany? Then they'll raise their filthy flag over Berlin and the Western more liberal Bundesländer.
THIS is the future we are supporting while our "leaders" pocket huge sums of cash! This is OUR future, Morgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!
Forgive me if I choose a strong and UNITED Serbia over this! It used to be the Russians building the walls through countries. SHAME on US for now doing it to Serbia!
And they call me a 'radical' for pointing it out.
For all the anti Semitic criticism of the Serbs, I wonder what does Morgaan Sinclair have to say about camp Josanovic and its mostly Serbian victims along with the Jews in WWII?
Was it not the Skenderbeg, Ustache and Handshar units of the Albanians, Bosnians and Croatians responsible here?
I guess they must have looked into their crystal balls and said "Hey guys we can do whatever we like here, these guys are Orthodox Christians and Jews no one will care about them" Well I guess they are right on that one.
As Athenian posted above the war on terror seems not be for Orthodox Christians. That is so obvious when you take Athenians examples and factor in American and British pressure to accept Turkey into the EU.
This bias is so disgusting I keep coming back, only in a sick way where someone just can't turn their eyes from a horrific traffic accident.
As for Morgaan having the right to post here, I certainly do not believe in censorship no matter how offensive or upsetting something might be, I just wish she'd stop these ridiculous ten page long posts that no one can read.
Like Witch King, I'll avoid engaging with Morgaan any further. However, a few points made above about the break up of the USSR is worth correcting:
After the aborted Soviet putsch, the 3 Baltic Republics declared their independence and were immediately recognized by the US as independent countries, followed by recognition by a whole host of other countries, and finally by Gorbachev himself. As for the others, what happened was that the CPSU was banned from operating in the Russian Federation, of which Yeltsin was the president, and the only way Gorbachev still held on to power was by virtue of his being the Soviet president (as opposed to the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, which was the title held by everybody from Lenin to Chernenko). In order to complete the termination of Communist rule, in November 1991, Yeltsin, President Kravchuk of Ukraine and President Shushkevich of Belarus got together and agreed to secede from the Soviet Union. That didn't make much sense since the other 9 republics were still in the Soviet Union, so a follow-up meeting in Almaty (Kazakhstan) had all the 15 republics leave the Soviet Union, thereby abolishing it. Gorbachev stepped down on Christmas, and on New Years Eve, the Soviet hammer/sickle came down from the Kremlin towers, and the Russian Red, White and Blue tricolor came up.Given the above sequence of events, the Muslim republics in the Soviet Union - Tajikistan, Kyrghizstan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan got their independence automatically, just like non-Muslim republics like Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, Armenia and Moldova. Chechnya was different in that Chechnya was a part of the Russian federation, and independence for any enclave in Russia, be it Chechnya, Tatarstan was out of the question.
It is worth looking at the Muslim Republics that broke away from the Soviet Union. They can be grouped as follows (too bad HTML tables aren't supported here, so bear with the "=" delimiters)
===============Farsi==========Turkic===========
Shia==========xxxxxxxx=======Azerbaijan==========
Sunni=========Tajikistan========All others==========
Interestingly, in these countries, Iranian influence has dominated not Shia Azerbaijan, which is very close to Turkey, but instead, Radio Teheran is very popular in Tajikistan, and could partly explain why an Islamic movement has been popular there.
Of the Turkic Sunni countries here, Kazakhstan actually has a Muslim plurality of 47% only if Orthodox and Protestants are counted separately. They have been under semi-authoritarian rule, with the same regime as during the Soviets, and as a result, there have been no ethnic tensions between Christian Russians and Muslim Kazakhs. Similarly, in Uzbekistan, the regime there has been a continuation from what it was under Soviet rule, and has cracked down hard on the Islamic party of Turkistan, which wants to re-establish Tamerlane's empire from the Caspian to China, incorporating not just Turkmen, Uzbek, Kazakh and Kyrghiz terretory but Uygar lands as well. In Turkmenistan, somewhat like Kemal Ataturk, their Soviet era president Suparmurad Niyazov - renamed Turkmenbashi - has built a personality cult around him, even naming a city in Turkmenistan after himself.
All of these countries are dictatorships. So was the remaining country in the list, albeit less so - Kyrghizstan, until recently, when a coup overthrew their president. The restoration of more freedoms in that country made it attractive for Jihadis from Uzbekistan, so that when there was an insurrection in the Ferghana valley, in Andijon (birth place of the Moghul emperor Babur), a number of those Jihadis fled to Kyrghizstan. Today, Kyrghizstan is a hotbed of Jihadi activity, and could well be a threat to Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and China.
Just the sort of thing to expect from Bosnia and if it becomes independent, Kosovo.
Fanatic, Wishbone, Npabga et al
I too normally don't advocate banning or censoring anybody. My main point above was that if svemirko's posts are going to get deleted, Morgaan's deserve to as well.
Being defamed is not an excuse to asking the moderators to delete posts we don't agree with - all of us who post risk getting slammed sometime or the other. I've had my share of it (somebody once accused me of being anti-Sikh when I suggested that India's Prime Minister get shaved after advocating that Muslims get first dibs on India's resources), and though that hurt, I never asked for such posts to be deleted - I just confronted the poster, and when I failed to convince him, I let it go. So can Morgaan, and people are free to agree or disagree with one's characterizations of her, no matter how vicious. But if our posts are going to disappear because she considers them libel, we too are at liberty to ask that she be censored. Unless somehow, the owners of this site share her opinion that Serbia isn't a part of the global Jihad - something that they don't seem to, given the articles published here, as well as the fact that James Jatras is on the J/W board, and Srjda Trifkovic and Robert Spencer seem to be on pretty good terms.
Anyway, I'm done with her. Just wish kill files/filters existed here like on usenet, where one could block posters one didn't want to read.
the only reason the west is giving kosovo to the muslims is beucase the west is just as evil as the muslims it hates orthodox christians just like the muslims do.
Now imagine just your country sliding to that, imagine you see entire parts of u.s. devoured by inhabitants who have nothing when they came in u.s., but gain after that everithing and still get mad. They kill, persecute and rape numerous americans, turn mountain rusmor to dust, send liberty statue to oblivion, and finally fight their new statehood.
It's called Minesota. In Germany it's called north-Rhine Westphalia. In France it's the Banlieues. In Norway it's Oslo and in Sweden it's Malmø.
They'll be tryin that one soon.
I say we turn on a dime and ensure a UNITED strong Serbia.
Right now our POLOticians are so f*cking corrupt and STOOPID that the camel is coming into the tent and noone to shoo him out!
God I DESPISE these moronic POLOticians!
Sellouts all of them!
islamo-swimmin for immigration in Hannover, Germany. The stupid Greens got that one through. The agument for throwing ot the MEN WHO PAY THE TAXES FOR THESE POOLS is that the 'moosleem' women can get to imigrate with German women where they wouldn't come if they were to encounter men in the pool.
Believe me - only the most desperate man in Germany would look at a Türkenschlampuh in a bathing suit!!
We know they're doing this not for the pleasure of swimming but to get a special position inside the country. Pissing in the water to mark their territory.
I hope the German men go in the pool just before the MoFoes get there.. and empty their beer-filled bladders!!!!
They should eat some Schweineschnitzels and Bratwursts so that plenty of PORK is in there too!
Sorry this sounds gross but we are getting desperate here! The people protest all they want. Our POLOticians DO what they want! it doesn't even matter who you vote for any longer.
Finally, I get a full night's sleep and have a full day off of work. It's still morning the birds are chirping the sun is shining a jet flies by overhead, the basey thundertone of it's engines gently rattles the windowpanes -the beautiful Salvadorian mother of two next door is at the kitchen sink washing dishes, I can hear the faucet running and the light clink of the dishes as she stacks them on the countertop the soft lullaby she hums alights on a breeze and mixes with the drone of the hummingbirds and the scent of jasmine in the air. I rise and make my coffee the way I always make it hot and strong and good and enjoy a smoke while I contemplate all the wonderful ways to leave my mark upon this day that I'm about to seize but before I leave I turn on Dhimmiwatch, open the "Kosovo" thread and am confronted with this or roughly this, and I'm paraphrasing now-
SERB BITES MAN - KILLS DOG!
SERB RAPES DOG - MURDERS JEW!
JEWS!JEWS! RUN FOR THE HILLS THE SERBS ARE COMING!
THE POMAKS ARE NEXT!
!FASTER SERBYCAT!KILL!KILL!
ARRRRGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at March 29, 2007 08:50 AM
Gag me with a miswak!
Go ahead ruin my day why don't you! I've had about all I can take.
Is it just me or does this women come off as a cross between Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" and The Soup Nazi? She's like something out of an Australian's nightmare.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
Can I get a witness?
GOOD GOD WHAT A BORE!
I started drawing up the Top Ten Reasons Why Morgaan Sinclair Should Be Banned From Jihadwatch and actually I found it impossible to limit myself to ten, but here's just a few-
Top Ten Reason #7)
-Allowing her to run rampant with her abusive rants and bullying tactics is like letting the village idiot or the town drunk disrupt a city council meeting
Top Ten Reason #786)
She has viciously attacked everyone and everything including Marisol, Hugh and Spencer Himself
Top Ten Reason #XVII)
-She's an anti-Semite: because in Morgaan's world, Jews aren't independent free-thinking individuals capable of exersizing their own free will and making choices and speaking for themselves. Jews, for her, exist only as a statistic on paper for her to use in legitimizing her own bigotry and intolerance. And if I were a Jew, I would be extremely offended at the cynical way in which she uses my people and my history to further her own ends. Jews are not a debating tool so why not cut the crap. How 'bout it cupcake?
Top Ten Reason #10)
-She doesn't debate in good faith. She struts around like Little Miss Bighorn with the deed to the property in her back pocket-cocky arrogant and condescending. Other posters here express views that run contrary to the views held by this site's administrators and a majority of Jihadwatch regulars, and they do so respectfully and in the spirit of good honest debate. But not Morgaan. Here are a few snapshots of the old girl in action:
Throws Bomb. Ducks and Hides. Copies and Pastes. Then Cuts and Runs.
She consistently ignores the well-thought-out and intelligently presented rebuttals that call her account into question and she profusely and copulously refers to Non-Existent-Studies-About-Things-That-Never-Happened-And -Articles-That-Don't-Exist.
She is disingenuous. She is a classic Troll.
Top Ten Reason #1001)
-She consistently makes wild claims and unsupportable accusations in an attempt to de-legitimize and de-humanize an entire nation, yet when someone takes a swipe at her she runs to Papa and screams foul. Bullies, insults and threatens everyone and when they push back she seethes and sues. Practically Islamic.
And finally folks( drum-roll please Anton!)
The Number One Reason of the The Top Ten Reasons Why Morgaan Sinclair Should Be Banned-
She spews goo out of her blow-hole
(Wild applause, the band plays, dancing midgets)
The following is an excerpt of a Jihadwatch thread from a few weeks back entitled Islamic Freedoms where I engaged in a futile attempt at honest debate with Ms. Sinclair. I was joined near the end by the posters-Remote Control, Champ, Infidel Pride and the sorely-missed American in Germany.One should note the hysterical tone and nonsensical content of her comments as well as her refusal to back up her sources or acknowledge points made in rebuttal.
By the way, I have the whole back and forth saved on my desktop under the title-
THE TAMING OF THE SHREW OR THE LEAD AND HOW TO SLING IT
By way of explanation, I should point out that the post entitled Islamic Freedoms, was put up on Jihadwatch a day or two after Morgaan viciously and lustfully attacked Marisol for no apparent reason. And I've always had a soft spot for girls and women named Marisol and I knew that at some point I would have to attack Morgaan. So I got myself secretly ensconced in my well-hidden and strategic hide-away and when I saw Morgann pop up in the Islamic Freedom thread I opened up with a volley out of hell by posting a comment in which I accused Morgaan of being flatulent and self-aggrandizing. Morgaan was riddled with buckshot and thrown from the trail. As she lay in a ditch at the bottom of a gully ,clutching her wounds in a desperate attempt to stop the bleeding, she managed to raise her blow horn and called out to sue for some type of hudna by saying that my post could be deleted if I didn't limit myself to engaging in "discussions that honor debate". But I know about Hudaybiyah and I was having none of it.
Here's how it played out-
"Anti-Semitic ravings on Serbian websites have wiped out the Sephardic population of the Balkans down to less than 3,000 Jews, and they will tell it's the Serbs that did it."
-from a comment posted yesterday by "Morgaan Sinclair"
I find it neither desirable, nor even possible, to engage in "discussions... that honor debate" with such a person as is capable of composing that sentence.
Posted by: november1981
-----------------------------
Answering November1981:
The Serbian Defense League has published extensively anti-Semitic material. Just one page ... found at http://compuserb.com/sdl/ ... will give you an idea of why I am saying that it is the Serbs who have driven the Jews out of the Balkans.
Further information about this can be found at many Jewish sites and in many articles penned by Jews.
At the Serbian Defense League website, they quote the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as if they were absolute god's truth, when everyone knows they were penned by a French priest initially as FICTION and picked up by the anti-Semitic Russians and distributed as fact. They were brought to Russian courts in the 1990s, and should have been laid to rest by the Russian's court VEHEMENT dismissal of them as pure fiction and utter lies.
More on this Serbian blaming of the Jews for America's intervention in the Balkans lies in an article by Pierce called "What Makes Madeleine Run?"
QUOTING:
Bill Clinton and the manifestly evil group of Jewish advisors and assistants around him are murdering Serbian men, women, and children in Yugoslavia every day. They are murdering our fellow Europeans. They are murdering our fellow Whites, and they are doing it in our name. Madeleine Albright and James Rubin, William Cohen, Sandy Berger, Richard Holbrooke -- Jews all -- are appearing on television every night and telling us that we must continue killing Serbs until they surrender.
END QUOTE
But what is interesting about Pierce's article is that he keeps slipping up. He keeps saying that the US intervened in the Balkans to save the Jews, complaining that the US interrupted the Serb attempt to take over Kosovo.
Look, it's just a fact: Once Tito was gone, every single group in the Balkans -- Kovovars, Croats, Bosnians, Albanians, Catholics, Muslims, etc. -- VOTED THEMSELVES OUT OF SERB CONTROL. And one just needs to ask why these people felt like they needed to get away from Serb control.
Do they or do they not have the right to say: We do not want these people running our lives.
According to Milosevic they did not have the right. Milosevic waged an ethnic SERBIAN war against every other ethnic group in the Balkans. The Jews fled into mainly Muslim territory for protection, proof enough on its own that they feared the Serbs far more than they feared any Muslim aggression. In 1993, the Mossad intervened to pulled Jews out of Serbia [see the Cordoba protocols]. That's how much they feared them.
What Milosevic did was this: He took ALL THE MATERIEL belonging to the former Yugoslavia and he turned it on the citizens of the Balkans because they refused Serb control and wanted independence from them.
After succeeding in disarming the entire city of Sarajevo, he then proceeded to bombard a completely defenseless population for THREE YEARS, and did it from a 300-year-old priceless Jewish cemetery in the hills. He rained fire until there was no food, no medicine, and no hope. He did the same in Croatia, until the Croatian people appealed to NATO to bomb their own, knowing casualties would be heavy. But as one Croatia partisan said: It is better to die of being bombed than to wait for what the Serbs keep doing.
This is not to say that it is all one-sided. It means that it was not the Croats, the Bosnians, the Kosovar and Albanian Catholics, or the Muslims in the territories that declared war on the Serbs. It was the Serbs who declared war on them.
On the Serbian Defense League website you can read a glowing tribute to Mladic and Radkovic, the "heroes of Serbia". Those are the guys that the current government admits carried out the massacre at Srebrenica.
The Serbian government should probably make an attempt at this point to shut down the country's anti-Semitic websites.
But if you want to know why I say what I do, just look at this one website, and you will know there is a problem here:
http://serbiandefenseleague.com/
November, you keep dragging your jihad against me from thread to thread. You keep starting it up, forcing me to recount all this again.
All I can say is: If you insist! You really leave me no choice.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In her comically deranged and patently Serbophobic comment above, "Morgaan Sinclair" writes the following-
"In 1993, the Mossad intervened to pulled Jews out of Serbia [see the Cordoba protocols]. That's how much they feared them."
I admit I was intrigued, and in the spirit of "honoring debate", I violated my oath not to engage this person and went ahead and googled "Cordoba protocols". I opened the first link on the search results page and found myself looking at a study entitled-
Evaluation of Two Hormonal !PROTOCOLS! for Synchronization of Ovulation and Timed Artificial Insemination in Dairy Cows Managed in Grazing-Based Dairies
authored by
M. C. !CORDOBA! and P. M. Fricke
-All of the links on the search results page were to similar studies. Such as this one- A New Protocol For Ovarian Carcinoma- put out by the Universidad Nacional de Cordoba- THE HORROR!
Undaunted, I kept searching forward through the results pages hoping that maybe I could find a link to a study entitled:
THE PROTOCOLS OF THE OVARIES OF DAIRY COWS
- but no such luck.
A normal person would stop there, but I decided to engage myself even further in the pursuit of "discussions... that honor debate" and I googled "Cordoba" "Serbia" "Protocols" "Jews"- the search results page listed links on a variety of subjects- none of which were even remotely related to secret night-time black helicopter Mossad airlifts of harried and persecuted polio-stricken Jews out of the Evil Nazi Kingdom Of Ex-Serboslavia.
In response to the inflamatory charges of Serbian Anti-Semitism levelled above, I looked through the websites for the Serb Defense League and Compuserb. Both of these websites are the work of an Anti-Semite who calls himself Boris Pribich and the entire contents of both sites consist of postings by Boris Pribich. I must say that in the literally thousands of hours of research I have devoted to Balkan history and the Wars of Yugoslav Succession in preparation for a film I am making, that this is the first I have heard of the Serb Defense League or Compuserb or Boris Pribich. It is unacceptable that the poster "Morgaan Sinclair" should slander an entire nation with charges of Anti-Semitism founded solely on the web-based rantings of this one little man.
I feel it's simply pointless to address the other baseless assertions and absurd mischarachterizations of Balkan events in this past decade put forward by "morgaan" in her post above.
I have great respect for Mr. Spencer and admire him for his wit and wisdom and for the tireless determination he displays in
The Struggle Against The Establishment Of The Islamic Order As Furthered Through The Campaigns Of Jihad, Dawa And Demographic Conquest
And I am aware that he sits on the advisory board of the American Council For Kosovo and as a result of contacts he has made through that group and research that he surely has conducted, that he must be fully aware of the absurdity of "Morgaan"s post above.
In light of the fact that certain comments have been deleted recently for distracting attention away from the core message of this site; are not the hateful, insulting and demonstrably false(and arguably racist) assertions put forth on display in the comments field above cause enough for that comment to be deleted and the person who posted it be asked to stick to reasonable debate on this issue?
This is just lunacy
With all due respect to Mr. Spencer and the people who comment here
all but one
Sincerely,
Jim
Posted by: november1981
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November1989,
Of course you didn't find the Cordoba Protocols that talk about the Mossad's insertion into Bosnia. You just went on your usual rant, this time to descending into overtly misogynist screed bringing up "ovaries" and "dairy cows" because you cannot with any substance whatsoever face one simple fact:
EVERY NON-SERB GROUP IN THE BALKANS VOTED THEMSELVES OUT OF SERB CONTROL AND WERE SUBSEQUENTLY TREATED TO SERB ATTEMPTS AT GENOCIDE.
That is a completely separate issue than fighting jihad, and the attempt to conflate native (not Wahhabi Arabs funded by the Saudis) Muslim populations with the attempted spread of shari'a is completely spurious.
But there's no talking rationally to you about it, because you're not rational.
And that's why thread after thread you attack me. You hope a voice of rationality on this subject will be silenced.
No, it won't.
I guess you hoped that when you attacked me as again today, personally, ad hominem, I would just cower and not respond.
I'm sorry. The simple truth is that 60% of all the war crimes of the Balkans Wars of th3 1990s were committed by Serbs. The other 40% were committed by ALL THE OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS COMBINED. And they all followed, sometimes by years, Serb rapes, tortures, and attempts at male gendercide of non-Serb groups.
Under no circumstances should Serbs be allowed to take control of any ethnic group they have tried to genocide.
Serbs are not, by virtue or their genes or culture, dominants of all they survey as if by divine.
EVERY NON-SERB GROUP IN THE BALKANS VOTED THEMSELVES OUT OF SERB CONTROL.
In retrospect of 10 years of attempted genocide, rape camps, examining men's genitals to determine their religion before shooting them in the face, I can only say that I bow to their profound good judgment in having done so.
And what I have said is not baseless in the slightest, as the timelien of the Balkans Wars, which I will copy to the next post, shows.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
---------------------------------------------------------------------
November, 1989
All right, since internet research skills aren't aren't your forte -- and any excuse for a rant will be snapped up at the first opportunity -- I will help.
Roger Faligot, `Mossad Helped Jews to Flee from Serbia', The European, 3-6 June 1993.
Lexis-Nexis, or any competent Librarian, can help you locate and read this article. A copy may be accessed at the Library of Congress with a reader's ID badge. You will need to use the main research room that is not open to the public. I suggest desk 23 there as it has the best view of the ceiling inscriptions.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's cut and paste-at least we can be done with the "Cordoba protocols". Now we have this offered up as conclusive and incontrovertible proof of widespread and deeply entrenched Serbian Anti-Semitism-
Roger Faligot, `Mossad Helped Jews to Flee from Serbia', The European, 3-6 June 1993.
-a single article in an obscure european magazine penned by the unfortunately named Roger Faligot.
I googled it and came up with one single result which links to the footnotes page of a book entitled: Israel and the War in the Balkans by Igor Primoratz- which cites one single sentence from the article in question,about Jews being airlifted out of Sarajevo, with the consent of the Bosnian Serbs who controlled the airport during the war in 1992.
This article was put forth as an example(the sole example) of the existence a widespread, deeply entrenched and violent Serbian Anti-Semitism and the only excerpt I can access through the web is quoted in a book, the subject of which has nothing to do with Serbian Anti-Semitism. I do not have access to Lexis-Nexis and am not going to bother trying to locate this article by Faligot. If one who "honors debate" seeks to engage in honest discussion in a forum such as this, then that person should be prepared to provide links that support their assertions or at least refer to material that is easily traceable on the web.
Anyway, the notion of some secret Mossad mission to airlift Jews out of Serbia during in the early 90's is preposterous; because, and I'll quote Wikipedia as I have no reason to doubt this passage-
"The Jews of Serbia lived relatively peacefully in Yugoslavia between World War II and the 1990s. However, the end of the Cold War saw the breakup of Yugoslavia, and wars in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. There were also a war in the Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija and NATO raids of Serbia and Montenegro. While there was little anti-Semitism in Serbia during the wars, the Jewish community, as with all Serbians, suffered as a result of the wars. Many Jews chose to emigrate to Israel and the United States. During the Kosovo Conflict, the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia relocated many of Belgrade's Jewish elderly, women and children to Budapest, Hungary for their safety; many of them emigrated permanently."
-Hence, most of the last Jews of Serbia left not because they were chased out by mobs or smuggled out in secret night-time airlifts, but to escape the bombing the extensive bombing raids carried out by NATO.
And just so we can get a glimpse of Jewish-Serbian relations during the time in question, below are some excerpts from the book Israel and the War in the Balkans which included the article by Faligot, offered up as proof of rabid Serbian Jew-Hate:
"The war in the Balkans was subsequently discussed in the Knesset on several occasions, but none of the criticism voiced by Knesset members succeeded in making a dent in the pro-Serb stance of the government. This was to remain Israel's official position. The government would not issue even the mildest condemnation of the Serbs...soon after the Dayton agreement was in place(1995) the ties between Israel and Serbia were developing at full speed. Mr Ori Orr, chairperson of the Knesset Foreign Relations and Security Committee, said on his visit to Belgrade in July 1994: "We have a good memory. We know what it is to live under sanctions and boycott ...Every UN resolution against us was adopted by a two-thirds majority...'. He went on to promise further support for Serbia, including help in improving the latter's international position and image."
I will again post this comment by "Morgaan Sinclair", posted previously on Jihadwatch-
"Anti-Semitic ravings on Serbian websites have wiped out the Sephardic population of the Balkans down to less than 3,000 Jews, and they will tell it's the Serbs that did it."
Posted by: november1981
--------------------------------------------------------------
november1981, I have access to Lexis-Nexis on line, but wouldn't you know it, a journal called European (without the "The") out of London is only available from 1996 forward, at least through my library's access.
Posted by: remote_control
-----------------------------------------------------------------
November 1989
To the others: I'm sorry for this, but as long as November 1989 keeps attacking me, I have to keep responding. It's not OK with me for him to call me a liar and get away with it. I'm not and don't deserve to be called one.
When he stops attacking I will be more than delighted to call it a day on this. I didn't bring it up to begin with.
November 1989 ... Yesterday, completely unprovoked, you attacked me (again) claiming that all I say about the Serbian attitudes towards their neighbors, particularly the Jews, is somehow a lie. You never offer any refutation. I directed you to an article you seem to refuse to use Lexis-Nexis or a library to access. After repeated requests last night that you stop writing attack posts, I come in tonight to find more of them.
So that the people on this forum are not duped into believing that I say such things without solid academic foundation ...
Here is the full November 2006 report of the Helsinki Committee in reporting human rights violations against Jews in Serbia, indicative of the endemic and systematic anti-Semitism faced by Jews in that country.
HELSINŠKI ODBOR ZA LJUDSKA PRAVA U SRBIJI
HELSINKI COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN SERBIA
SCG–11000 Beograd, Zmaj Jovina 7, tel: (+381 11) 3032408, 2637116, 2637294
fax: 2636429, e-mail: biserkos@EUnet.yu, http://www.helsinki.org.yu
ANTI-SEMITISM IN SERBIA
Belgrade, November 2006
HELSINŠKI ODBOR ZA LJUDSKA PRAVA U SRBIJI
HELSINKI COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN SERBIA
SCG–11000 Beograd, Zmaj Jovina 7, tel: (+381 11) 3032408, 2637116, 2637294
fax: 2636429, e-mail: biserkos@EUnet.yu, http://www.helsinki.org.yu
CONTENTS:
1. INTRODUCTION
2. JEWS IN SERBIA
3. ANTI-SEMITISM IN SERBIA TODAY
3.1. Present socio-political context
3.2. Political anti-Semitism
3.3. Between theory of conspiracy and ‘comparative victimhood’
3.4. Anti-Semitism within the Serbian Orthodox Church
3.5. Civil scene anti-Semitism
3.6. Anti-Semitism in culture – publishing
4. GOVERNMENT REACTION
5. RECOMMENDATIONS
‘Even the final rest is not to be that.
The destruction of the cemeteries is not just an
anti-Semitic outrage, it is anti-Semitism itself’1
1. INTRODUCTION
In her book Origins of Totalitarianism, Hannah Arendt notes an apparent rule that
‘...anti-Semitic sentiments take on political importance only when they can be combined
with major political problems...’2 In Serbia, where the last two decades have undoubtedly
been years of major political problems, anti-Semitic sentiments have assumed not only
political but also social and cultural importance although there are hardly any Jews in the
country at all. In view of this, how is one to approach the problem of anti-Semitism and
analyze its origins in a country in which Jews constitute one of the smallest minority
communities?
Whereas earlier theorists have sought the Political and social causes of modern and contemporary anti-Semitism within the confines of enlightenment, in the advent and demise of the European nation state, current analysts regard it as an outcome of the radical and extremist tendencies in society brought on by the changed social and economic environments in evidence at the end of the 20th and the beginning of the 21st
centuries. Although the historical contexts in which the first two analytical frameworks
occurred are undeniably substantially different from the present one, this by no means
detracts from their relevance. Leaving aside the contradictory effects of enlightenment
and their connection with anti-Semitism,5 a belated project aimed at the creation of a
(greater) nation state, accompanied by political and social radicalization, seems to provide quite an appropriate framework within which to analyse contemporary anti-Semitism in Serbia.
The idea that a homogenous national group is a basic prerequisite for a state community (that is, for its territorial and personal sovereignty as well as for the definition of its political goals) is necessarily at odds with the existence of ‘nations within a nation’.
Serbia’s greater state-national project, that is, the way it was conceived and the methods used in the attempt to realize it, could not but bring about a clash with the national minorities. In order to justify nationalism and populism, and along with them Serbia’s aggressive policy towards neighbouring states and minorities at home, one had to reinterpret Serbia’s recent past and its Orthodox Christian traditions. On the one hand,
this strategy sought to legitimize the use of warlike policy as a response to the atrocities
committed against Serbs in the past; on the other, it set out to lay the foundations of a
new Serbian identity. Within this framework, persons belonging to certain minorities
were assigned the role of ‘enemy’ – Croats, Hungarians, and Bulgarians for their World
War Two collaboration with the Third Reich, and Jews as allegedly the chief culprit in a
global conspiracy against Serbia and the Serbs, an attitude both in line with the widely
known anti-Semitic stereotypes and betraying a total absence of any critical appraisal of
Serbia’s policy and its consequences.
The basic framework within which one should address the problem of anti-Semitism today is a complex one. In the past twenty years or so in
Serbian anti-Semitism has not existed as an isolated phenomenon; it should therefore be sought in the radicalization, intolerance and xenophobia permeating politics and society as a result of a
disastrous, destructive policy. In view of the traditional perception of the Jews as ever
others and foreigners, anti-Semitism in Serbia may, in a broader sense, be interpreted as a
problematic attitude to difference rather than as a purely anti-Jewish ideology, practice,
or discourse.
This study addresses anti-Semitism in four of its basic manifestations, namely as
political, religious, civil, and cultural. Whereas the first is almost wholly restricted to the
field of political discourse, the religious and civil often intertwine, mostly to the extent
that in today’s Serbia one discerns no clear dividing line between the church as a
religious institution and as a social and cultural authority and actor. Although the Serbian
Orthodox Church (SPC) has officially entered Serbia’s political life, this study considers
as being of far greater interest its influence on certain ‘civil society’ circles which may be
said to generate and promote anti-Semitism. The civil form of anti-Semitism is by far the
most open and radical, with the cultural providing it with motives and perpetuating its
presence on the public stage. The context in which this study addresses anti-Semitism is
provided by the political and social circumstances in the last decade of the 20th and the
beginning of the 21st centuries.
At present, denial and negation of anti-Semitism are especially strong in the
political and social spheres, reflecting as they do a legacy of a society, policy, and elites
incapable of confronting and overcoming a controversial past. This study throws critical
light on the background and manifestations of anti-Semitism, and of other forms of
intolerance, in order to emphasize, among other things, the need to reassess Serbia’s past
and present as a precondition for the establishment of a modern, democratic and tolerant
state and society.
2. JEWS IN SERBIA
The exact number of Jews living in the territory of the Republic of Serbia (not
including Kosovo) is not known. The last official census conducted in 2002 put the
number of persons declaring themselves Jews at 1,158.6 The total number of Jews is
estimated between 2,000 and 3,000.7
During the Second World War nearly the entire Belgrade Jewish community
perished in the Holocaust. Having embraced the main ideas of National Socialism,
especially those concerning racial purity, Serbia’s quisling authorities under General
Milan Nedić turned into diligent executors of the occupier’s policy against the Jews. The
Jews were denied the right to work, robbed of their property, and stripped of all their civil
rights.8 Aleksandar Lebl writes that from April 1941 on the Holocaust was carried out in
Serbia too. The occupying authorities were assisted in their mass extermination of Jews
in Serbia by the Nedić Government of National Salvation, Dimitrije Ljotić’s Yugoslav
National Movement ‘Zbor’, and the gendarmes and special police, who guarded the
prisons and camps and ran down and arrested sheltered Jews.9 As a result, State
Counsellor Harald Turner reported to Berlin as early as August 1942 that Serbia was the
only country in which the Jewish and Gypsy question had been solved.10 In consequence,
Belgrade was officially declared the ‘first city of a new Europe to be Judenrein [cleansed
of Jews]’.11 In recognition of their successful solution of the ‘Jewish question’, Nedić’s
Serbia and Nedić himself received a published tribute from the Reich leaders.12
Although Nedić’s and Ljotić’s anti-Semitism is a historically validated fact,
attempts are being made to relativize and reinterpret it by serving up all kinds of
interpretations. Thus, ‘In Serbia in 1941, the German occupying authorities were able to
achieve the quickest “final solution” of the Jewish question because Serbia was not a
German ally but an occupied country, so in Serbia the Nazis had free reign. Countries
which were Germany’s allies, such as Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, and the Independent
State of Croatia [NDH] were able to conduct their own policy regarding the Jews, and it
could differ from Germany’s to a degree. Occupied Serbia had no such choice because it
was forbidden, under the terms of its capitulation, to pursue any “own” policy. The
Germans sought permission from the NDH to open a camp on the old fair grounds near Zemun since Croatia had annexed that part of dismembered and occupied Serbia. It was
there that some 8,000 Jews were murdered…’13
Since Israel’s foundation in 1948, according to the World Jewish Congress, over
10,000 Jews have emigrated from the countries of the former Yugoslavia, including from
Serbia more than half of those who survived the Second World War.
Today the majority of Serbia’s Jews live in Belgrade, with smaller communities
in Novi Sad, Sombor, Subotica, and Niš. Both numerically and politically and
economically they exert almost no influence at all in the republic.14 In politics they
occupy no prominent position but can be found in culture and in the police.15 In view of
the foregoing, there is no doubt that the perpetuation of anti-Semitism in Serbia requires
no (influential) Jews: ‘The fact that anti-Semitism is in evidence in environments where
no one has seen a Jew suggests an irrational phenomenon and a hatred for which Jews are
not indispensable.’16
3. ANTI-SEMITISM IN SERBIA TODAY
The existence of anti-Semitism in Serbia shows that the formal introduction of
democracy into politics through the inauguration of a multi-party system, freedom of
thought and free speech in the wake of communism does not necessarily result in genuine
democratization of politics and society. The effort to realize the Serb nationalist project
has given birth to right-wing political parties as well as a welter of nationalist, chauvinist,
and racist organizations.
Not infrequently, freedom of thought and free speech has in Serbia been taken to
mean the right to hate speech, through which anti-Semitism has been and continues to be
openly propagated. The general political and social climate of intolerance allows anti-
Semitism to be manifested in its various forms. Given that it has grown in intensity in
recent years, it cannot be regarded as a marginal phenomenon.
3.1. PRESENT SOCIO-POLITICAL CONTEXT
The removal of Milošević did not result in a total break with the nationalist
policy, so in the wake of several lost wars nationalism, xenophobia, and intolerance
continue to exert a strong influence on political and social life in Serbia. The frustration
in political life and in society as a whole stems from the inability (or rather the absence of
a desire) to face the recent past and the catastrophic consequences it has had not only for
neighbouring states and peoples, but for Serbia itself.
In spite of promulgating the new Constitution on 7 November 2006, Serbia is still
not constituted as a state. The undefined status of Kosovo, which the Constitution treats
as an integral part of the Republic of Serbia, prevents the definition of the country’s
territorial sovereignty, in the absence of which even the institutions of the state cannot
ensure an institutional-legal framework indispensable to the normal operation of the state
and society.
The idea, enshrined in the Preamble of the new Constitution, of a national-civil
state and a state of others betrays the lack of fundamental understanding of the modern
state on the part of Serbia’s political elites. The defeat of the national project has brought
about no redefinition of the direction in which Serbia’s future is to be charted. The ‘all
Serbs in one state’ project has been renamed ‘a state first for Serbs (and then for citizens
and others)’. Serbia’s territorial sovereignty still being up in the air, the elites have
attached priority in their political and wider social engagement to defining the personal
sovereignty of the Serbian state on the basis of a single-nation identity and on that
nation’s collective memory.
The reordering of the collective memory and the creation of a new Serb identity
are pursued with reference to three key periods in Serbia’s modern history: the Second
World War, the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and its disintegration through
wars. This process has been monopolized by the state and by the national political, social,
and intellectual elites.17 In their revision of the past, these elites do not take as their point
of departure a critical appraisal of the net results of each of these three periods; on the
contrary, they proceed from a relativization of their problematic aspects, i.e. (anti)fascism
and nationalism. For this reason trivialized (anti)fascism and nationalism find room in
political decisions, cultural production, social life, and public discourse. The new
interpretation of history and the selective collective memory it conditions not only define
current socio-political life in Serbia but doubtless augur a controversial future too. Thus
reordered national memory is becoming the root not only of Serbia’s new national and
state identity, but also of its inability to integrate politically and socially the members of
the minority communities which are objectively opposed to such an interpretation of the
past and to the future which can be built on that basis. There has been no break with this
trend since 5 October 2000. On account of its internal political differences, mainly as to
the desired course of change, but also of its ‘ideological’ differences, the ruling DOS
coalition failed to make a break with the Milošević legacy. The introduction of religious
teaching into elementary schools, the rigid political attitudes to Kosovo, the affording the
church a direct role in politics though its participation in the Kosovo talks, the refusal of
the government of Vojislav Koštunica fully to cooperate with the Hague Tribunal, etc,
keep Serbia in a vicious circle of nationalism to this day.
The lack of a wider political as well as social will to take a critical look at and
cognizance of phenomena such as anti-Semitism, xenophobia, racism, intolerance, etc,
which are the concomitant of nationalism, deprives Serbian society of a chance to
reconstitute itself into a democratic, tolerant and, above all, auto-reflexive society ready
to accept difference as such instead of focusing on its own continuing frustrations or
making assessments in terms of its own needs.
17 ‘Sigurnost građana u nedovršenoj državi’, Helsinki Committee for Human Rights in Serbia,
Belgrade, 2006.
3.2.POLITICAL ANTI-SEMITISM
Historically viewed, political anti-Semitism has manifested itself in specific
political actions aimed at depriving the Jews of their citizenship and civic status, at
imposing special levies on them and confiscating their property, at ghettoising, deporting,
and exterminating them as a final solution. It culminated during the life of the Third
Reich which devised and put into operation a machinery for the systematic production of
corpses.
Implicit if not explicit anti-Semitism survives the Holocaust and the adoption of
numerous international legal documents starting with the Charter of the United Nations,
the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights, the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial
Discrimination, and others.
The roots of modern political anti-Semitism may be sought within the context of
the growing radicalization of democratic societies and the increasing evidence of rightwing
trends in Europe, especially in Serbia. Right-wing radicalism and populism have
become a major characteristic of the contemporary European political scene. The wider
social and economic crisis is characterized by a quest for a new identity in substantially
changed circumstances, a still predominantly discursive quest marked by anti-immigrant,
anti-Islamic, and anti-Semitic verbal attacks. In the countries of eastern and central
Europe, former members of the Warsaw Pact, this is additionally aggravated by the
reinterpretation of their communist and, above all, anti-fascist past including by all means
the ‘national’ perceptions of anti-Semitism.
Since the defeat of the war project, Serb nationalism has been looking to its
ideological roots, especially to the conservative thought personified by Nikolaj
Velimirović, Justin Popović, and the ‘pragmatic policy’ of the fascist Dimitrije Ljotić and
the quisling Milan Nedić. In Serbia, it was the post-communist,18 nationalistic
remodelling of the collective memory, which declared Nazi collaborators victims of
communism, that paved the way for the political and social sanction of anti-Semitism.
The rehabilitation of the fascist, quisling, and Chetnik movements in Serbia has laid the
ideological foundations for the relativization of extreme nationalism and of the
consequences of the policy conducted under its aegis, thus creating a political and social
climate for numerous racist and anti-Semitic campaigns.19 Given that the majority of
political parties with right-wing leanings have implicitly legitimized conservative
individuals and problematic periods from Serbia’s more recent history, one may speak of
an implicit or even explicit embracement of anti-Semitic theology and ideology on
Serbia’s political stage.
The rehabilitation of fascism, or of national anti-fascism according to those who
conduct the rehabilitation20 with a view to a ‘normalization’ of nationalism, provides a
framework within which anti-Semitism figures side by side with racism and xenophobia.
In this context, the new ‘national heroes’ such as Radovan Karadžić and Ratko Mladić
August 2006. The author sees at work in Serbia today the ‘anti-fascisization of chauvinism...the
promotion of an authentic national anti-fascism’ through the legitimization of domestic fascists and quislings.are often made use of in the fight against the ‘dirty anti-Serb propaganda’. Thus, for
instance, the exhibition of photographs by the US journalist Ron Haviv, ‘Blood and
Honey’, in several towns in Serbia was marred by incidents caused by Radovan
Karadžić’s supporters chanting nationalist slogans.
In political discourse, one notices the use of anti-Semitic stereotypes in inter-party
recriminations, such as ‘Labus the Jew’, ‘Koštunica’s mother’s a Jew’, and so on.21 A
number of members of the Serb political elite – notably Vladan Batić, the justice minister
in the Đinđić government, Dušan Bataković, and Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica –
have publicly expressed their respect for Nikolaj Velimirović: ‘Bishop Nikolaj is an
indisputable moral authority in Serbia…our road-guide who is and will always be with
us…his teachings are the appropriate model for true patriots.’22
3.3 BETWEEN THEORY OF CONSPIRACY AND
‘COMPARATIVE VICTIMHOOD’
The first years of war in the former Yugoslavia were marked by a revival of anti-
Semitism and the political abuse of Jews through philo-Semitism. According to Milan
Vukomanović, anti-Semitism was first revived by certain political circles personified by
the ‘new left and right’ and the clero-nationalist, Ljotićite and Nedićite movements.24
The theory of an international conspiracy against Serbia, launched by the
Milošević regime and the satellite parties such as the Yugoslav Left and the Serbian
Radical Party, had the object of explaining away the failures of Serbia’s warlike and
nationalist policy. An integral part of this theory was the thesis about the existence of
‘shadow rulers’, that is, of Jewish power centres, which was a main generator of anti-
Semitism in Serbia. Other than there allegedly being a ‘…planet-wide Jewish conspiracy
against Christian Orthodoxy, especially against the Serb people…,’25 there was said to be
a conspiracy by fifth-colonists including Jews and the few political groups and especially
nongovernmental organizations opposed to the warlike policy.
These stereotypes are based chiefly on anti-Semitic publications, notably the
Protocol of the Wise Men of Zion. It was in this light too that the numerous foreign and
international initiatives seeking to prevent fighting in the former Yugoslavia were
interpreted, because they had been initiated and signed by Jews among others. At the
same time, Serbia’s Jews were asked to make an apology for the acts of the US
Administration including the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999.26 As Milorad Tomanić has
observed, this theory of a worldwide conspiracy against the Serbs and of a ‘new world
order’ was actually part of a well thought-out Serb plan boiling down to a ‘…Serb
conspiracy against the whole world and to a “new Serb order” that was to be imposed at
least in the territory of the former SFRY.’27
As well as encouraging anti-Semitism, certain political and intellectual circles
promoted philo-Semitism. In his Potiskivanje i poricanje antisemitizma, Jovan Byford
observes that the drawing of parallels between Serb and Jewish histories was closely
‘…related to the martyrdom myth characteristic of Serb nationalist discourse…’28 In the
late 1980s and the early 1990s in particular this ‘analogy’ was abused by many
intellectuals who pointed to a ‘historical fatality rendering the Serb and Jewish people
increasingly alike’29 or argued that ‘For the Serbs, every square foot of Kosovo is a
Jerusalem: there is no difference between the suffering of Serbs and Jews. The Serbs are
the thirteenth, lost and most unfortunate tribe of Israel.’30
The promotion of philo-Semitism had another objective: to reinterpret the recent
historical context of Serbia’s war of aggression against neighbouring states of the former
Yugoslavia and its nationalist policy towards minorities; this was done by investing the
Serb people with the role of victim on the historical model of the persecution of the Jews
especially during the Holocaust. The ‘analogy’ between the fates of the Serb and Jewish
peoples also drew upon the period of the Second World War especially in the
Independent State of Croatia, whose ideologues ‘blamed “Croatia’s misfortune”
primarily on the Serbs and then on the Jews…’ – ‘Serbs and Jews know what it means to
be the object of collective hatred, so the lessons of historical experience should not be
lightly forgotten.’31
Another object of the philo-Semitic rhetoric – wooing the Jewish-dominated
power centres with a view to obtaining their support in defence of the ‘suffering Serb
people and lands’ – actually helped to sustain the conspiracy theory and anti-Semitic
stereotypes. The Society of Serb-Jewish Friendship, founded on 21 November 1988, was
designed as a vehicle for this abuse, declaring as its aim ‘bringing closer together the two
peoples who have “often been unjustly accused just because they are different [from the
rest]”’32 and becoming close with those power centres which can help solve the ‘Serb
question’. Among its founders were Serb nationalist intellectuals inside the Serbian
Academy of Sciences and Arts (SANU) – Ljubomir Tadić (president), Dobrica Ćosić
(one of the authors of the SANU Memorandum), and others33 – and several members of
the Jewish community including the ubiquitous Klara Mandić. Financially supported by
the authorities, the Society became part of the regime’s propaganda machinery.34 The
launching of the claims about the existence of power centres in which Jews called the
shots was fully compatible with the official policy of the Milošević regime based on a
conspiracy theory. The Society never enjoyed the support of the Jewish organizations in
Serbia. The Union of Jewish Municipalities and Jewish intellectuals strongly objected to
the Society’s position, criticising it35 and making numerous protests against its
announcements.
3.4. AMTI-SEMITIZM WITHIN
THE SERBIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH
Following the collapse of socialism, during which period the state determined the
nature of its relationship with the religious communities,36 and the outbreak of armed
conflicts in the former Yugoslavia, the SPC was given an opportunity to throw its full
weight behind the Greater Serbia project. The SPC exploited the rise of nationalism in
Serbia to ensure its rehabilitation with a view to retraditionalizing Serbian society and
shaping a new collective identity. This implied, among other things, a squaring of
accounts with the communist ideology, whose ‘main victim was the church itself and
then the Serb people’;37 cleansing the national identity of this ideology was considered of
crucial importance for any return to traditions and Orthodoxy.
The insistence on traditions and Orthodoxy was not confined to the context of the
SPC’s showdown with the communists but became an integral part of the warlike policy
itself. Loyalty to Orthodoxy and to the SPC figured prominently in Serb war folklore.38
In 1991 and 1992 the SPC admittedly made several appeals for reconciliation and the
cessation of hostilities, but as war in Bosnia took hold it ‘demanded’ that the war effort
be pursued and blocked peace processes.39
The fundamentalism of the SPC is manifested in its advocacy of a return to the
roots and beginnings, its opposition to secularization, and its rejection of enlightenment
traditions and modern scientific, technical, and political achievements; combined with the
SPC’s status of an institution enjoying the greatest trust of the citizens, this
fundamentalism has been instrumental in the creation of a new Serb national identity
which is largely characterized by the absence of tolerance and the rejection of modern
political values.
In recent history the SPC has helped the perpetuation of anti-Semitism by laying
the foundations for and fabricating the new Serb identity. The first and most significant
of its actions was the canonization of Nikolaj Velimirović. The decision to canonize
Nikolaj Velimirović was taken unanimously by the SPC Holy Assembly of Bishops in
May 2003. As a result, Velimirović is regarded in Serbia today as the most distinguished
religious personality since Saint Sava.40 The successful rehabilitation of Nikolaj
Velimirović after forty years of marginalization has been hailed by the SPC as proof of
the capacity of the ‘Serb nation as a whole for revitalization, as well as the much-needed
validation of its spiritual values.’41 The touting of Nikolaj Velimirović as a key spiritual
authority has been accompanied not only by the issue of his works but also by the
publication of numerous laudatory writings about him. However, Velimirović’s
connections with the Nazi collaborators – ‘…Bishop Nikolaj, “[who was] close to Nedić
and Ljotić not only did not object to the totalitarian political systems, but clearly came
out in their favour”…’42 – and his demonstrated anti-Semitism – ‘All of the modern
European devices are the invention of the Jews, who crucified Christ: democracy, strikes,
socialism, atheism, tolerance of all religions, pacifism, world revolution, capitalism,
communism alike. All these are the invention of the Jews or rather of their father the
devil’43 – are in direct contrast to the myth about his martyrdom.
The person and work of Nikolaj Velimirović serve as an inspiration to many
right-wing youth organizations which operate if not formally as part of the SPC then
under its wing, and which are in the forefront of the anti-Semitic drive in Serbia today.
Several Jewish demands that the SPC dissociate itself from Nikolaj Velimirović’s
anti-Semitism have not borne fruit because ‘…Velimirović’s anti-European, anti-culture,
and…anti-Semitic spirit is implanted in what today constitutes the substance of a good
many people from the church.’44
When the SPC articulates its dissociation from and condemnation of anti-
Semitism, it does so mostly in the context of its abuse of philo-Semitism. Its philo-
Semitic rhetoric is based on the use of comparative victimhood,45 the object of which is
the defence of the Greater-Serbia project and the negation and relativization of its
extreme manifestations including anti-Semitism. In its numerous press releases, the SPC
refers to the martyrdom and victimhood of the Jewish and Serb peoples in the past,
stresses the authority of the Christian Orthodox Church, and denies that its dogma
encourages anti-Semitism. Although the SPC is officially opposed to anti-Semitism, the
fact remains that certain circles within it are anti-Semitic; also, the canonization of
Nikolaj Velimirović suggests that as an institution the SPC continues to figure in Serbia’s political and social life as a promoter of at least implicit anti-Semitism.
Given that anti-Semitism appears in Serbia today within a wider context ofradicalization, intolerance, xenophobia, and racism, and considering that the SPC has largely contributed to this state of affairs by its political and social engagement, one cannot help feeling that its declarative condemnation of anti-Semitism is a gesture of political correctness rather than reflecting its substantive position on this and related issues.
The active support of the SPC to the rehabilitation of fascists, collaborators, and
Chetniks from the period of the Second World War – Dimitrije Ljotić, Milan Nedić, and
Draža Mihajlović – all of whom were more or less anti-Semites,46 bears out the fact that
3.5 CIVIL SCENE ANTI-SEMITISM
Blatant anti-Semitic incidents are a feature of Serbia’s ‘civil scene’, which is
made up of a large number of more or less formal radical right-wing and (clero-)fascist
groups. The identity of the persons standing behind the more violent incidents involving
the desecration of Jewish cemeteries, monuments and religious facilities, the writing of
graffiti and the pasting of posters cannot be established with any degree of certainty:
except for three persons arrested for putting up anti-Semitic posters in March 2005, the
public is still in the dark as to the identity of the perpetrators.
Characteristically, the right-wing and clero-fascist organizations attract mostly
young people who find their foothold of belief in what has been promoted in the last
twenty years or so as a wider social trend, namely revised Serb nationalism and return to
traditional Orthodox values. The more extreme among these, such as skinheads,
Nacionalni stroj (National Formation),47 Krv i čast (Blood and Honour), and Rasni
nacionalisti - rasonalisti (Racial Nationalists - Racialnalists), have embraced the Nazi
ideology as their own. All of these organizations have in common extreme anti-
Westernism and rejection of liberal values, racism, nationalism and chauvinism,
ideological exclusivity, and xenophobia. Needless to say that anti-Semitism figures too in
this milieu. Whereas the proved activities48 of the aforementioned groups amount mostly
to virtual anti-Semitism, the activities of Serb right-wing youth organizations such as Dveri srbske (Serbian Door), Obraz (Honour), Sveti Justin Filozof (St Justin the Philosopher), Nomokanon (Nomocanon), and Svetozar Miletić include numerous and highly popular panel discussions and periodicals.
Although many public activities of Serb right-wing youth organizations are not explicitly anti-Semitic, the very fact that they support, among other things, the rehabilitation of Nikolaj Velimirović, Milan Nedić, Dimitrije Ljotić, and the Chetnik movement suggests a latent anti-Semitism.
Since civil sector anti-Semitism conforms to the pattern over the last decade and a half of expressing intolerance and often of rabid hatred of minority groups in Serbia, it paints a picture of society’s general state of affairs. As the Israeli ambassador to Serbia, Jafa Ben Ari, has observed in an interview with Danas (9 May 2005), in Serbia ‘there is no question of anti-Semitism per se, but of hatred simmering below the Surface’.
3.6. ANTI-SEMITISM IN CULTURE - PUBLISHING
Since the end of the 1980s Serbia’s publishing sector has been a most prominent
propagator of anti-Semitism, with over 150 titles published by various publishing
establishments. Some of these specialize in anti-Semitic publishing, notably Ihtus -
Hrišćanska knjiga and Klub nacionalnih knjiga Velvet.
The Protocol of the Wise Men of Zion has proved an especially successful product of the anti-Semitic publishing effort, having been printed in twelve different editions between 1990 and 2001;49 among the publishers, Ratibor Đurđević holds pride of place, having authored most of over fifty anti-Semitic titles published by Ihtus - Hrišćanska knjiga.
According to Aca Singer, many of the anti-Semitic titles freely published and circulated in Serbia in recent years are far more injurious than the Protocols: Ratibor Đurđević’s Jevrejsko ritualno ubistvo (Jewish ritual murder) is one of such works. The following is a list of some of the titles that have been on display in Belgrade bookshops:
Jevrejska zavera (the Jewish conspiracy); Srpski narod u kandžama Jevreja (the Serb
people in Jewish clutches); Pod šestokrakom zvezdom – Judaizam i slobodno zidarstvo u
prošlosti i sadašnjosti (under the six-pointed star – Judaism and free masonry in the past
and at present); Zašto se divim Adolfu Hitleru (why I admire Adolf Hitler); Mrtve krave
protiv šest miliona mrtvih Jevreja (dead cows vs. six million dead Jews); Zašto je
rasizam ispravan (why racism is right); Zašto mrzim Jevreje (why I hate Jews); Protokoli
sionskih mudraca (protocols of the wise men of Zion); Vladika Nikolaj o Judejcima,
neprijateljima hrišćana i hrišćanstva (Bishop Nikolaj on the Judeans, enemies of
Christians and Christianity); Zli i prokleti (the evil and damned); Zavera nad zaverama
(the conspiracy of conspiracies); Zlotvori čovečanstva (mankind’s fiends); Pet krvavih
revolucija judeo bankara (the five bloody revolutions of the Judean bankers); Svetosavski
nacionalizam u judeo-masonskom okruženju (the nationalism of St Sava in a Judeomasonic
encirclement); Holokaust – dogma judaizma (Holocaust – the dogma of Judaism); Talmud – izvornik satansko-judejskog porobljavanja čovečanstva (Talmud – the fountainhead of the satanic-Judean enslavement of mankind); Prokleti Hanan (the cursed Hanaan); Judejska zavera protiv boga i čoveka (the Judean conspiracy against
God and man); O semitskoj opasnosti i lomljenju srpske kičme u Drugom svetskom ratu
(on the Semitic peril and the breaking of the Serb backbone in the Second World War);
Zašto su Jevreji kroz celu istoriju protiv Srba. Ko su oni? (why the Jews have been
against the Serbs throughout history, who are they?); Jevreji u ogledalu Svetog pisma
(the Jews in the mirror of the Bible); Zli i prokleti: Dušmani savremenog čovečanstva
(evil and cursed: the foes of modern mankind); Drama savremenog čovečanstva (the
drama of modern mankind); Cionizam, komunizam i ‘novi’ svetski poredak (Zionism,
Communism and the ‘new’ world order); Sindrom straha od Judejaca u Americi (the fear
of Judeans in America syndrome); Rugobe i laži američke demokratije (the monstrosities
and lies of American democracy); etc.
Reprints of the works of Milan Nedić, Dimitrije Ljotić, and Nikolaj Velimirović
figure prominently in the anti-Semitic publishing sector. Further, periodicals such as
Logos,51 Kruna, Velika Srbija,52 and Pravoslavlje,53 as well as certain tabloids, run anti-
Semitic texts or articles by authors who can be linked to anti-Semitism. In reply to
protests from the Union of Jewish Municipalities, the publishers and authors of such
articles mostly reply that the readers themselves should be allowed to judge what is true
and what false in them. In spite of many complaints filed by the Union of Jewish
Municipalities against publishers of anti-Semitic books, the prosecutors have decided not
to prosecute criminally in most cases.54
The presence of anti-Semitism in culture is also substantiated by Nebojša Vasović
book Lažni car Šćepan Kiš, published by Narodna knjiga of Belgrade: in this work with a
marked anti-Semitic subtext, Danilo Kiš is accused of having achieved his success thanks
to his international Jewish connections; that he chose not to write about the ‘cooperation
of Jews and Nazis and those who…“profited from” Nazism and Stalinism’.55 The book
reduces the ‘Jewish identity to “gain” and to a “racial” or rather racist substance’.56 As
well as maligning Danilo Kiš, the author alleges that ‘cultural policy in Serbia was for
years determined by writers such as Oto-Bihalji Merin, Eli Finci, Oskar Davičo, Erih
Koš…’57
4. GOVERNMENT REACTION
There is hardly any adequate reaction on the part of the Serbian authorities to
anti-Semitic propaganda, incidents, publications and to hate speech in general in which
anti-Semitism figures. Under Article 134 of the Criminal Code of the Republic of Serbia,
anti-Semitism may be criminally prosecuted as the dissemination of religious, national,
and racial hatred. A demand by the Union of Jewish Municipalities to include in the
Criminal Code a special provision penalizing the criminal offence of anti-Semitism,
negation of the Holocaust, minimizing the number of Jewish victims,58 and glorifying
Nazi ideology and leaders was turned down. Further, Article 38 of the Law on Public
Information of the Republic of Serbia prohibits the publishing of ideas, information, and
opinions encouraging discrimination, hatred or violence against persons or groups of
persons on the basis of their race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, etc. In spite of this, a
great many of the complaints filed against publishers of anti-Semitic literature by the
Union of Jewish Municipalities have been turned down by the prosecuting authorities.59
Most reaction to anti-Semitic discourse and incidents remains on the level of
verbal condemnation and critique. A series of coordinated incidents in March 2005
provoked a stormy reaction from the liberal public and well as verbal condemnations
from the SPC and the SANU; all the same, lack of an adequate response led Civic
Initiatives to issue a press release saying that the ‘new wave of extreme Serb nationalism
is under the aegis of certain state and church institutions’.60 On the occasion of the
incidents at the Novi Sad Faculty of Philosophy on 9 November 2005, Professor Milenko
Perović charged that the authorities’ unwillingness to prohibit the activities of extremist organizations betrays the fact that the ‘ruling political nomenclature in some of its
elements shares the political beliefs of these extremist organizations.’
It appears that the government’s strategy is to characterize anti-Semitism in
Serbia as an isolated phenomenon instead of treating it as an integral problem of the
general socio-political radicalization. Furthermore, any reference to its existence and
manifestations is frowned upon as an attempt to discredit the democratic policy and
society and to obstruct the process of reconciliation. The reactions of numerous
politicians from the ruling coalition, as well as of certain institutions of the state, to the
spate of organized anti-Semitic attacks in the spring of 2005 suggest a link between anti-
Semitism and major centres of political power bent on damaging the reputation of the
country: ‘Just as we have begun to repair the reputation of the country, an action has been
launched in order to damage that reputation. This action is orchestrated, but from a
different source and with a different objective…’
In response to the report of the Council of Europe monitoring mission on the
Serbian parliamentary elections held on 28 December 2003, which criticizes anti-Semitic
tendencies during the election campaign, the Ministry for National and Minority Rights
of Serbia and Montenegro announced on 28 January 2004 that the ‘carelessly
pronounced, sweeping assessments can only harm the process of reconciliation in the
region and the development of inter-ethnic trust.’
Unfortunately, such interpretations of anti-Semitism in Serbia and reactions of the
authorities indicate their unwillingness to get to grips with the legacy of a policy, now
redefined as ‘democratic nationalism’, which they continue to promote with considerable
zeal.
RECOMMENDATIONS:
Eliminating anti-Semitismfrom Serbia’s political and social life necessitates the
following:
1. Having suffered military defeat, Serb nationalist policy must also be defeated mentally because the present nationalist political and social mindset continues to
generate intolerance, xenophobia, fascism, anti-Semitism, and so on.
2. In order to change mental attitudes in Serbia, the curricula must be purged
of all apologetic reinterpretations of the role of the collaborationists in the Second World
War, of the role of Serbia in the break-up of the former Yugoslavia, and of all anti-
Semitic ideologues and authors.
3. International institutions, especially the Council of Europe, ought to insist
that the authorities react adequately to anti-Semitism and to other manifestations of
hatred and intolerance, in compliance with relevant international documents.
REFERENCES:
1 M. Horkheimer, T. Adorno, Dijalektika prosvetiteljstva (Dialectic of Enlightenment),
Veselim Masleša, Sarajevo, 1974. My italics.
2 H. Arendt, Izvori totalitarizma, Feministička izdavačka kuća, Belgrade, 1998, p. 28.
3 Referring to the period from 17th to 19th centuries.
4 Adorno and Horkheimer, Arendt, and others.
5 Although this approach, in so far as it deals with a specific type of rationality and
subjectivity, may well be useful in studying the roots of anti-Semitism in general, its relevance to
Serbia’s recent historical political and social development, as well as to its present, is almost
insignificant.
6 Jews by ethnicity and religion. Slighly more than half of them were Jews by religion, the rest
declaring themselves secular. Aleksandar Lebl, ‘Antisemitizam’,
http://www.kczr.co.yu/okrugli%20stolovi/politicki%20ekstremizam/7aleksandar%20lebl%20antisemiti
zam.doc.
7 Ibid. See also ‘Puzeći i otvoreni antisemitizam’, Kažiprst, studio interview with Filip David,
Radio B92, Belgrade, 10 April 2005.
8 Olivera Milosavljević, Potisnuta istina. Kolaboracija u Srbiji 1941-1944, Helsinki
Committee for Human Rights in Serbia, Belgrade, 2006.
9 Aleksandar Lebl, ‘Antis
My post containg the debated between myself and MS was cut in half, anyway, it resumes with Remote Control's reaction to the study posted by Morgaan-
The paper Morgaan Sinclair reproduces above is mostly a texture of assertions without evidence, rarely presents evidence for key assertions it
makes, and often the claims of anti-Semitism in Serbia it alleges are phrased in a vague third person, e.g.: "...there was said to be a conspiracy by fifth-colonists including Jews and the few political groups and especially nongovernmental organizations opposed to the warlike policy." Said by whom? Some eccentric flake or some key popular figure? It provides little background or necessary information on the names it does damn, leaving us to wonder again if they are sufficiently representative of Serbia and Serbians as to warrant blanket condemnations.
P.S.: I wonder if Morgaan Sinclair knows what the English word "attack" -- one of her favorite words -- means, denotatively and connotatively. Every time I see it being misused by her, it has the effect of a mildly low-voltage, albeit annoyingly shrill, jolt of electricity.
Posted by: remote_control [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 12:28 AM
-----------------------------
Morgaan Sinclair
I have attacked your wild assertions and questioned your dubious sources. Instead of validating your sources and responding to points I raise in rebuttal you simply offer up yet more dubious material.After another poster challenges your sources you still fail to validate them or put forth any coherent argument of your own to substantiate your claims. Now you simply googled "anti-semitism serbia", clicked on the third link down on the results page and posted the report you found there in its entirety. That is not honest debate, that is Arts and Crafts.And this has been a waste of time.
You posted the following a couple days ago on Jihadwatch-
"Anti-Semitic ravings on Serbian websites have wiped out the Sephardic population of the Balkans down to less than 3,000 Jews, and they will tell it's the Serbs that did it."
Either you actually write in another language, and the sentence above is the result of a horribly mangled Babelfish translation, or you're just plain nutty.
I go with the latter
Posted by: november1981 [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 01:09 AM
---------------------------------
"Arts and Crafts"....LOL
I feel your pain, november1981!
Nutty!
Posted by: champ [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 01:43 AM
----------------------------
I've just had a data-overdose from Mo's last post. I need some Bayer.
Posted by: champ [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 01:45 AM
--------------------------
Thanks Champ
I followed your exchange with her the other day and she was relentless but you held your ground well. I've been following this site daily for a couple years now and have posted only a handfull of comments but I knew that at some point I would have to jump in and confront her as well.
Remote, I agree completely. I looked through that report so I could prepare a response, but when it started reading like the ICTY indictment against Milosevic I gave up. I figured that anyone who chose to read the whole thing would come to pretty much the same conclusion. The Balkans are awash in NGO's staffed by people with degrees in sociology or International Development who recieve funding to spend money or to host international seminars on "The Status of Women in Developing Societies" or to put out reports of the type posted above. One needs to ask who is funding them and why?
What is it with Helsinki and these Committees For This and those Foundations For That? A few people get together, form a corporation, give it an imposing name with the word Helsinki in front of it and I'm supposed to drop to one knee and bow my head in obeisance? Does anyone realize what a scam this is? A while back I and a few friends decided to get in on the act and we formed a think-tank called The Foundation For the Defence of Committees. We haven't gotten around to releasing a mission-statement yet but we have managed to think up some really cool-sounding titles for each other-
I myself am the Acting Undersecretary to the High Commissioner for the Procurement of Vittles and Strong Drink. The main thrust of our current activities is basically hanging out at posh cafes in West LA, sipping espresso and pretending to field really important calls on our swell-looking cell phones. We're not good for much by ourselves right now, but if anyone were to approach us with the right kind of funding- well then I'm sure we could put together a report as rife with rumour, inuendo and assertions without evidence as the one posted above- anyone with fat pockets, a bloated ego and delusions of grandeur can get my number by e-mailing me at "bribemewithcash@gmail.org- then pick up that phone, dial that number and make me an offer that only a Turk would refuse... and remember- the next really important call I field can be yours.
Posted by: november1981 [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 04:42 AM
---------------------------------
november1981,
Your new organization for the defense of committees could also have a subsidiary for the creation of the "Cordoba Protocols".
Why does Morgan Sinclair call you "November 1989"? I'm sure she has a link to explain it, or perhaps a dusty discontinued newsletter only available in the Library of Congress to readers with ID badges who may be conducted to their special desk #23 reserved for them by one of the Chief Librarians who is a friend of the family and also was at that mysterious cocktail party where everybody repeated the rumor that Robert Spencer is a bad man.
Posted by: remote_control [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 11:58 AM
---------------------------------
november1981 --
Wow, you caught that circus act -- wasn't that hilarious?! Me, a "terrorist plant sent by CAIR" is one for the record books (or maybe the comic books).
Robert was generous enough to remove her smear campaign; or as he put it, her "invective" posts.
OT: I don't know, maybe Robert should drug test newcomers before allowing them to post. I am not naming any names -- this is only a random suggestion.
Enjoy the ride, and welcome to JW!
Posted by: champ [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 7, 2007 03:08 PM
-----------------------------
The Cordoba committee, Sarajevo Rose - the source for the millions of Ottoman ships off the coast of Cadiz waiting to ship Jews to safety - surely we could spin some new tales.
November1981
I need to figure out a way to scam all oil rich Muslims of as much of their cash as possible; once I have, I'll have a few assignments down your way, such as coming out with reports that Muslims kill a million people each year, and come out with a statistical breakdown that adds up to more than that.
Posted by: Infidel Pride
---
EXCERPT ENDS HERE
and so also should the hysterical and bigoted rantings by Morgaan Sinclair
Morgaan Sinclair,
You wrote earlier that it wasn't just the US but NATO that was bombing Serbia. That is true but NATO is completely dominated by the US.
Anyway, The NATO/US bombing wasn't completely successful. At about 10 p.m. on Saturday, March 17, 1999, a radar-evading U.S. F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighter was shot down some 40 kilometers (30 miles) west of Belgrade. When this was shown repeatedly or Serbian TV, it completely shocked the Pentagon since they didn't believe little Serbia had the ability to track a stealth fighter, much less take one down.
Now the rest of the story. At the time I was a military contractor who designed computer chips for many of these systems. Since I had loudly resigned in opposition to Clinton's aggression against Serbia I had no problem emailing the Yugoslavs what the flaws were in the stealth system. That gave them the ability to take down the Nighthawk. It was Ratko Mladic who ultimately got my email and put it to good use against NATO.
Of course, I was soon "visited" by the FBI with all their threats. Why was an American helping his county's enemies. I responded that Yugoslavia had never commited any act of enmity against the US and NATOs attack was pure unprovoked aggression. I also pointed out that the US had not declared war and therefore I had broken now laws. Knowing that they had no case against me, I dared them to arrest me. Instead they just cursed and stormed out.
To this day, I am proud to have helped Mladic take down that F-117A Nighthawk. The pilot safely ejected anyway and perhaps some Christian schoolchildren were saved by my act.
Provoslavni
You showed commonsense & guts although your admission will probably provoke Morgaan Sinclair
into fresh frenzy & tirades against the Serbs.
This oddball claims to be a woman altho' supect it is an ALBANIAN MUSLIM TROLL.
'Her' arguments are plainly ridiculous-so Albanians and Bosnian Muslims are going to treat the Jews better-ha,bloody,ha!!
Morgaan,old fruit,you have forgotten the Jews rounded up for Death Trains,the ones tortured & murdered in your lovely Kosovo.Not to mention the
12,000 Jews slaughtered by those nice,secular Bosnian Muslims in B.H.
My advice is to go back to taking your Medication.
Anyway Serbia saved Madeleine Albright[Al Dhimmi]'s bacon-definitely a mistake I think.
Also John Bolton has now changed his tune-HE HAS SPOKEN AGAINST KOSOVO BEING GIVEN TO JIHADI ALBANIANS.
That is why to claim that Ottoman Empire comitt genoide on the Areman is false durning WWI is fale. The legal mean of genoide is than order from a hight ranking government offical to carry out the mass entic cleaning, rape of murder before it can be called genoide. The Sultan and his top official never issue those order, it was lower rank military office acting on they own that carry out the killing. The Sultan have to retake command of his out of control military force to order the end of the killing. The officer who order the killing where excute for they crime under Islamic law for they action. It was Greece in they seperate peace treaty with Turkey that demand that all Greece Chirstian liveing peaceful in Turkey be force to move to Greece and all Turkey muslim liveing in Greece be forceful move to Turkey.
Moron Spamclair's analysis of the situation in Chechnya.
Hold your breath folks for the intellect on international affairs has managed to condense rationale behind the Islamist terror attacks on infidels into one pithy sentence
Take it away Spamclair
"Putin is largely responsible for the mess that is in Chechnya now"
It's that evil infidel Putin wot's to blame. Those poor innocent Islamist terrorists were somehow brainwashed away from their peacenik mode of life into slaughtering 1,000s of infidels.
Well glad that that's all cleared up then.
You really are a fu@#$%^&g dhimmi, Spamclair.
The sad and unpalatable fact for most civilised people, is that we supported the wrong side a few years back.
We sent you guessed it, a UN backed force to attack the Serbs, and support the "poor Muslim Albanians". Very much the wrong move. A large area of a town near me is now riddled with Albanian Muslims, their extremely violent gangs are responsible for a small crime-wave. They don't work, they claim dole money, they receive housing benefit cheques. The women walk around in the usual black crap they are so fond of wearing head to toe, whilst the men are in the process of taking over the local drugs and prostitution rackets (using our "filthy white girls" of course!!) They are totally useless scum. If they behaved like this in Serbia, it is perhaps not surprising that a few of them ended up shot.
"The legal mean of genoide is than order from a hight ranking government offical to carry out the mass entic cleaning, rape of murder before it can be called genoide"
from DefenderofIslam above.
This is just a backdoor method of holocaust denial. After all, Hitler never issued a FORMAL order to "kill all the Jews", rather the Nazi leaders carried it out using verbal orders and and euphemisms such as "reaching a final solution to the Jewish problem".
Was there was no genocide in Rwanda or against the American Indians since these policies were not formally enacted into law? The Khmer Rouge issued no written orders to kill three million Cambodians and Stalin exterminated 20 million kulaks simply as a sideshow to agricultural collectivization. By your definition, genocide has never really occurred anywhere.
Michael Savage yesterday was railing against some official from the State Department who's promoting the carving out of Kosovo from Serbia, and made the point that what we have there is a government within a government within a government. Nice to see that some people get it.
Morgaan Sinclair puts forward false information on this site. When she feels like commenting on areas of the world and periods of history she knows nothing about she just makes things up and assumes that they become true if she asserts them forcefully enough.
A few more examples from her rants demonstrate this.
"now that the Basheyev is in control there, better the Russians keep Chechnya as they will, of course, since Putin has been sleeping with Basheyev (figurative speaking) for years."
Basayev (nobody's called 'Basheyev'), far from being in control in Chechnya, was killed by the Russians two years ago.
"Basically the problem for the ex-Soviet Union, and therefore for Putin, is that immediately upon its break-up everybody who could got out: Uzbekistan, Tajistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Yugoslavia. Only the Chechens got attacked, and Putin managed it by claiming, well before it happened, that it was Wahhabized."
She thinks that Putin was president of Russia when the attacked Chechnya after the Soviet Collapse! Has she never heard of Boris Yeltsin? Chechens got attacked in 1994, Putin became president in 2000.
And this quote contains the embarrasingly comical claim that Yugoslavia was part of the Soviet Union. It didn't even border the Soviet Union. It wasn't even a member of the Warsaw Pact, and was a non-aligned country during the cold war.
There's a huge amount of false information that she peddles, but life's too short to go through it all. Maskhadov brought Sharia Law to Chechnya. I said that earlier, and after that she continued to peddle the lie that he was not an Islamist. etc. etc.
People have radically differing opinions; that's okay, as you can argue with them. People can be rude; even that's okay, you can be rude back. But putting forward false information as fact is infuriating.
Should Morgaan Sinclair be banned? No, but she marauds around the threads on this site threatening to get various commenters banned. If she reads this posting she will try to get it banned, because it accuses her of pushing false information.
defender of islam stop lying you turk mongol monkey you stole constaninople and we will get it back one day
Greek Gurl
Mongols weren't and aren't Muslims - don't insult them.
Turks - that's different.
Infidel Pride when I stated I felt Morgaan should not have her posts removed I meant no one should. We need to hear the idiots amongst us to know where they are coming from, and also those who offend no matter how annoying it can become.
Defender of Islam posted some crap here, once again it's the Greeks fault for everything that happens in Turkey. That pisses me off and I think he's a typical lying scumbag Turk, so be it. He is free in the western world to spew his crap around and that is ok, but I do find it funny that these Islamic scumbags don't see the irony that in their shitholes they don't have the freedom to question or say anything negative about their culture.
Hello. I accidentally ended up on this site while surfing about jihad. I am amazed by the fanaticism of this blogger morgaan. First of all at the detail, quantity of material and amount of time that must have gone into the research and presentation of the propaganda that he/she is dishing out. To me it does not seem like an accident, somoeone who is genuinely outraged by some things that have happened but rather like a deliberate plant by someone like the international crisis group. The amount of information that he/she controls is mindboggling, especially since he/she assuming a Jewish American identity and pretends to have no vested interest in the matter discussed other than the righteous indignation of a concerned individual. I suspect that it is rather rewarding if you are a fearless propagandist on $100000+ a year from some fancy office in Washington while well fed and driven to work by a hybrid vehicle from the suburbs of Alexandria. It is equally easy to delude oneself that some college phd degree and the aquired methodology from some American University in Balkan studies is enough to make one an expert in what is going on in the Balkans or in the world for that matter. These posts are the ultimate proof that this is not so. These posts by morgaan are also a textbook example for what is wrong with the US studies of foreign countries and even more of what is wrong with the prevailing culture of reasoning within the current US state department (Nicholas Burns comes to mind, the master of the indignation rethoric) and foreign policy establishment in general. Why this site is being singled out by them for such morose blogs, why is it seen as a threat to them, I am unable to figure that out. But someone needs to explain to them that as far as Serbs go and/or Yugoslavia, there is only one thing that they need to know before they start any type of sermonizing: That is that the current struggle in the Balkans is nothing but a continuation of the Serbian Ortodox fight against the Muslim domination, which has gone for centuries while at the same time trying to find a common language with their Catholic cousins to the West. Anyone that thinks that giving Kosovo and/or Bosnia to the Jihadists is the end of it is deluding himself. England, USA, Germany, Israel or any country or those Jews who think that this is the way to fight the rising international antisemitism; they have been dead wrong so far and will most likely achieve the opposite effect. The international antisemitism is rising hand in hand with the further victories that they so foolishy plan to bestow on the international JIhadists. BUt they cannot admit this to themselves, that they are wrong and that they have been wrong not only in the Balkans but elswhere as well due to their grand hubris or self-confindence in their won excellence. So the sad story of the Balkans, Israel, Sudan, Kashmir continues while self congratulating foreign policy specialists move into the new condos and fly all over the world at government expense taking photos for their coctail parites, visting their NGOs world over and congratualting each other for being righteous. (the one that really got me in this blog and why I am writing this is the one about how MOssad was sending people to Serbia to protect the 3000 Jews that live there from pogroms! Where do they come up with this stuff and pLease when does it stop??) Morgaan you are a fraud.
infidle pride turks decend from a mongol tribe that came into central asia centurys ago its a historical fact.
i am getting fed up with mongans sinclairs post on here they are to long and take up to much screen space i have had my post on here removed and sometimes i have not been able to post at all becuase my post have been viewed offensive in the past by robert spencer or somebody else just for pointing out my views.
defenderofislam your nick is a joke islam cannot be defended its seen for what it is a cult and soon it will be destroyed
you can lie about greece all you like but that wont defend islam you cna lie about serbs but still that wont defend islam
Oh, that Moron Spamclair, with his little poodle, Idiotic Ian.
According to them the problems in Yugoslavia in the 90s are........ wait for it.....the infidels fault....those poor misunderstood Islamists are all innocent and peace loving and tolerant and .......add praise here
They still haven't explained why the Serbs biggest ally was ISRAEL and the Sarajevo Gov't got most help from VEVAK and the Wahhabis.....