Muhammad Dawood, aka David Hicks, whose case we have followed here for several years, has pled guilty to supporting terrorism. Hicks is one Muslim convert whose Muslim name has never been used in news reports about his case. Why is that? The media would never have stood for such treatment had its object been Cassius Clay or Lew Alcindor. Why is Muhammad Dawood different? Could it have anything to do with the fact that Muhammad Ali and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar are cultural icons, while Muhammad Dawood is a would-be mass murderer?
In "Gun-toting jihadi was not an angel" in The Australian, Janet Albrechtsen sums up the Muhammad Dawood case, noting that the spin still goes on:
FINALLY David Hicks, also known as Abu Muslim al Australia, aka Abu Muslim Philippine, aka Muhammad Dawood, has pleaded guilty to the charge of providing material support for terrorism. And now watch as the real PR campaign goes into angelic overdrive. His vociferous cheer squad will proclaim his innocence, declaring the plea was the only way for Hicks to get out of Guantanamo Bay.Australian Greens leader Bob Brown was out in front. “His guilty plea is simply a plea for release, for exit from the inhumane Guantanamo Bay gulag,” he said. “And that’s a human response.” Spin doctors will bring up the rear, completing the sanitisation of a gun-toting Islamist revolutionary into an accidental, adventurous Australian tourist.
Before the book deals, chat shows, newspaper and television profiles get under way, it’s worth putting emotion to one side. Forget about the photos of an angelic nine-year-old with freckles and a crooked fringe. Forget about the ads where his father, Terry Hicks, declared his love for his son. Let’s come back to the inconvenient aspects of the Hicks saga, those that never make it on to a “Free Hicks” billboard: the law and the facts.
[...]
Now to the facts. Hicks has pleaded guilty to his extensive links to terrorist organisations and his activities in Afghanistan, where he met Osama bin Laden and completed al-Qa’ida training courses. The specification Hicks admits to sets out the extraordinary detail: he travelled to Afghanistan with the help of Lashkar-e-Toiba to attend al-Qa’ida terrorist training camps. He was schooled by al-Qa’ida in weapons familiarisation, landmines, tactics, basic explosives, guerilla warfare, ambush, camouflage and surveillance.
He then moved up the ladder to urban tactics training and surveillance of the US and British embassies in Kabul. The specification Hicks admits to traces how he went to Pakistan, only to return to Afghanistan after the September 11 terrorist attacks, joining al-Qa’ida forces at Kandahar airport, later travelling to the front lines in Kunduz to fight coalition forces. He was captured by the Northern Alliance in December 2001 while trying to flee to Pakistan.
Long before his admission yesterday, Hicks has made plenty of other, earlier admissions: training with the Kosovo Liberation Army in Albania and fighting with Lashkar-e-Toiba, where he “got to fire hundreds of rounds” into Indian-controlled Kashmir. In letters home to dad, he called himself a “well-trained and practical soldier”. He admitted to preparing for martyrdom because “the highest position in heaven” goes to those who “go fighting in the way of God against the friends of Satan”.
Hicks has called the Taliban regime “the best in the world” and congratulated the regime for running “the country by strict Islamic law”, making particular mention of the death sentence and “all Islamic punishments”. He urged “an Islamic revolution”, hoping that the Afghanistan model would “spread throughout the Muslim world” so that “Western-Jewish domination is finished, so we live under Muslim rule again”.
Read it all.
Soon the West will buy into the idea of these 'martyrs' as being somehow 'better' or special. And they are our own executioners! Look at what was up for an Academy award last year. Coming soon! (a safe prediction) masochistic orgies of 'compassion' for these gore-encrusted narcisstic murderers. "Well at least they believe in something!" will say the morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Remeber the quote of E. M. Cioran, "Youth always and everywhere has idealized executioners, provided they perform their task in the name of the vague and the bombastic."
Our 'Forever Young' (to borrow the title of a Dylan song) intellectual and artistic elite will lead us to the abbatoir and put our collective heads on the block.
MUHAM-MADNESS!
Soren Kierkegard, the Danish Philosopher, said that for one reason and one reason alone could he disown his own child: for the crime of becoming a journalist. (Compare philosophy vs. journalism)
Me, I would never begrudge my kid a job as a reporter. But Islam? Conversion to Islam?
I'd hire some guys name Luigi and Vince and beat the Muham-madness out of him.
Oh for the days when this traitorous scumbag would have had a rope placed around his neck and his worthless body would have descended through a trapdoor.
As he operated in Kashmir, why couldn't he have been extradited to India instead?
Soon the West will buy into the idea of these 'martyrs' as being somehow 'better' or special.
Too late. It already has.
MORE EVIL THAN THE NAZIS!
By Dennis Prager
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 27, 2007
"I never thought we could see a new form of evil. After the gas chambers of the Holocaust, the tens of millions murdered in the Gulag, the forced starvation in the Ukraine, the hideous medical experiments on people by the Germans and the Japanese in World War II, the torture chambers in all police states, I had actually believed that no new forms of evil existed.
"I was wrong."
========================
Read the rest here:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27573
Soren Kierkegard, the Danish Philosopher, said that for one reason and one reason alone could he disown his own child: for the crime of becoming a journalist. (Compare philosophy vs. journalism)
It hardly matters if he becomes a journalist or a Jihadi. Either way, he becomes an enemy of the West.
OT
Tsusamni hits gaza
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/
Then scoll down to CRACKING UP
HICKS
PLEADS GUILTY
Now thats one in the eye for the candy brained moonbats and (Gavin) King Wanker
Spirit Of 1683,not a bad idea...
The reason of course for Ali and Kareen is they were neo black chic and the liberal media got a perverse thrill out of their radicalism in playing with Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. The MSM could pretend they were really sticking it to the white establishment for their welfare ward vote children.
See, the Cronkites and Democrats could keep Martin Luther King jr. around for attacks upon traditional America which they detested, but would never allow King nor the Jack and Jill upper black families into their garden parties.
(Jack and Jill refers to an established group of blacks who have their own club of well to do African Americans.)
The problem though for David Hicks is he is white. If the MSM starts referring to him as Dawood then it just makes this not a George Bush hates black people to quote Kayne West, as we all know this is about blowing up brown skinned people and not whites according the all the socialist propaganda.
So David is a victim, this poor white bloke that John Howard, that mean buddy of George Bush.
Problem is Davey just admitted he is a terrorist.
Of course Babs Walters has the covered now too as Rosie O will say he was tortured to say those things.
The MSM elite are really a strange bunch in how they spin stories to fit their weird idea of how the world should be.
So he pleads guilty and he will be confined until, until when? Until he finally decides to stop blowing up Buses, Trains, Hospitals and Schools and becomes an upstanding citizen? We will keep him alive so he can spread his evil ideology and recruit people who are already proven criminals? I am starting to suspect that our military command are as ignorant as the pols when it comes to understanding the islamists. Why was he brought here? Why do our taxes feed this rat? Because the powers that be are at best fools. I want to know what his carbon footprint is, how much is he contributing to periodic climate change? If his C/F is high we should do something to rectify the situation, in the name of mother Earth of course and lets let his supporters join him while we are at it. Hey fellas, the only good islamist is a dead one, wake up.
Muhammad Dawood's predicament really exercises a certain stripe of leftist. They huff, and they puff, and they blow the house down. Whatever is going on there should be carefully written up as a case study in the convergence of anti-human ideologies: an MA thesis at least. We have a little time to be properly fascinated by this one.
I have read that link on the Australian and some of the respondent's comments, and staggered about how naive and stupid they are. To them, war is a process of law and order, and terrorists should be treated like common felons. Well, I posted the following (don't know if it will get published, and I can't wait to see the responses if it does):
I honestly can't believe my eyes at the responses I have been reading. David Hicks is of the mindset of those who murdered 3,000 in New York, 202 in Bali, 353 in Beslan, 52 in London, 191 in Madrid, 200 in Mumbai, and thousands in Israel - the list goes on. Hicks is the enemy of every freedom-loving person. His mission, alongside those who share his goals, is to impose Sharia rule on the entire infidel world with all the horrors that would have made living under Nazism or the Kempetai look like a picnic - and under Sharia, you would discover what being a second class citizen, or worse, really means, and you would discover the real meaning of a corrupted system of justice. The end of everything we have created since the Renaissance in Europe and the end of enjoyment and everything we take for granted. That is what we are threatened with by the David Hicks's and Bin Ladens of this world.
A poster mentioned something about hunting the likes of Hicks down and capturing them. I disagree. We should hunt them down and KILL them without pity, just as Hicks ought to have been shot where he stood. Because if we don't destroy them, they will certainly destroy or kill us without any pity whatsoever, for as long as it takes. That is the way they are. You can't reason with those who are commanded by the texts of the Koran, Sira and hadith to wage war against infidels and believe they'll go to Paradise if they die in the act of killing us. And as for those who babble on about the Geneva Convention, these Islamists don't abide by ANY convention of war, other than that of Mohammed against the Ban Qurayza tribe in 628 AD (he had 900 men beheaded and sold the women and children into slavery to purchase weapons for his next campaign). Far from respecting our laws, values and fairness, the terrorists laugh at them and regard us in the West as weaklings, lacking backbone and testosterone, and ready for our consignment to the ash-heap of history, just like the Byzantine Empire in 1453 after 825 years of Jihad waged against it, and the Byzantine Empire probably had its own 'peacenicks' and 'lefties' - that is why it is no longer around.
At the end of the day, war is all about winning, and outright victory is the only satisfactory outcome. And to defeat this enemy we have to be utterly ruthless a la Patton, Scipio Africanus, Sherman or Black Jack Pershing. To be anything less is to lose.
Requesting comment from Australian readers:
Today on NPR (national public radio in the U.S.) they reported on this story and said that the Australian public has been very harsh with Muhammad Dawood (David Hicks), saying he got what he deserved. But at the five year anniversary of his imprisonment, public opinion has turned in his favor, if not for the man then for his predicament. Is this true?
A simple kangaroo-skinner, a very simple soul, a simpleton, looking for solace and The Answer. He found it, alright. Unfortunately when he found That Answer, one thing led to another, and by degrees, not very slow degrees either, also made him the mortal enemy of his fellow Australians, and all other members of the Camp of Infidels. And these Australians, who have suffered from the bombs in Bali of those who shared The Answer they possessed with the dim likes of Hicks, have a perfect right to imprison him for life -- at the very least.
special_guest at March 27, 2007 06:12 PM: Hicks/Dawood is almost purely a media creation. At a guess, it would probably be a 60/40 split (against/for) throughout this whole crappy saga.
Australia is one of the most urbanized countries in the world, and politics follow suit. Basically everyone lives in either Sydney or Melbourne. Sydney is San Diego, Melbourne is Chicago. Or thereabouts.
Actually, I just made up those Australian city/American city comparisons, with only scant knowledge of the American cities (been to SD, but seen Chicago only in ER and it reminded me of Melbourne). Can anyone supply more apt comparisons?
And here's a letter reproduced from that thread in "The Australian" which exposes the mindset of the American-hating Leftie in all its - i'll leave the words to you - (strong stomachs, please)
cat of Brisbane (28 March at 09:26 AM)
Janet, funny how your column brings out the right-winger, hate-mongering mob to howl about so-called pinkos who support the right for David Hicks to have had a fair trial (5 years ago, I add)? O maybe that’s your intent all along - to give that mob some heart ,and to support your buddies in the old US of A.
‘Mack of US’, the Geneva Convention should have supported David Hicks - it’s your government who took away that right. And by the way, a bit of advice for (rabid) Americans re 9/11 - so what you lost 3000 people - GET OVER IT! - there are a hundreds of thousands across the world who’ve suffered under successive American governments intervention, and/or support for bad regimes (eg Israel’s destruction of Palestine, in Central America, and now in Iraq - you’ve now unleased a civil war! Shame on Bush, Howard and Blair and all their neo-con cronies - and it was all for the sake of oil, and domination of the Gulf States. I hope history has a very unkind word for you.
Who cares what Hicks' islamic name is? Unless he has cjanged it legally his name is still "David Kicks" and that's how it's reported, at least in Australia. It's incredible that as soon as the word "terrorist" is mentioned, all legal nieties can be thrown out the window.
The Gitmo gaol is a hellhole- Hicks has been in solitary confinement for many months, without proper legal representation, and under conditions far more onerous than the worst serial killer would get in gaol in the US, indeed amounting to torture depending on how you define "torture". As far as we know, he still has all his limbs and body parts.
Is this the "freedom, human rights and democratic fredoms" the US wants to impose on the world? Is it any wonder people are tired of US hypocrisy? Setting up an extra-judical travesty of justice in a foreign country (thus outside US law), hosting a joke of a kangaroo court, and then wondering why inmates plead guilty to trumped up charges? I'd plead guilty to assisting Martians to get out of that disgusting place, especially after 5 years+.
I'm as concerned about Islamic issues as anyone else- Gitmo only serves to question US goals and morals.
What is striking is that anyone in Australia should be so solicitous about the trial, and the supposed (fictitious) mistreatment of David Hicks because of the mere fact that he is an Australian citizen. So what? If the Australians had discovered some American of the John-Walker-Lindh variety helping to kill Australians in Bali, and somehow laid their hands on him, whou in this country would, or should, have cared?
How thin a thing must the solidarity of non-Muslims be, if even some Australians are apparently "outraged" by the treatment of David Hicks. I feel about Hicks the way I feel about William Colepaugh. Come to think of it, Colepaugh never got the punishment as a traitor to the West that he deserved. That was a mistake.
Thanks to the poster at 6.50pm, for illustrating my earlier point about the agitation that Mohammed Dawood provokes amongst western leftists. Can you invite your friends here? Please? Can you all please explain to the rest of us your exercise of extreme moral indigation about the predicament of M. Dawood?
Look up mate. The reason M. D. has been suffering the hellishness of Club Gitmo, with its excessive sunlight, fatty foods, and torturous female guards, is because that is *precisely what Mohammed wanted*. It is a deliberate strategy of his lawyers, presumably instructed by Mohammed himself, making full use of the lassitude of Western norms. You know, the fair go cobber, and all that. And the rest of it.
Look up mate.
Posted by Shiva
..."(Gavin) King Wanker"
LOL! Perfect name for this twat. I hope it sticks in his community.
Risky_Comment, why exactly should we be worrying about granting "freedom, human rights and democratic freedoms" to people, like those down in Guantanamo Bay, who wish to take those exact same things away from us?
And what would you recommend that we do with all of these terror detainees, then? It's very typical of the left to hurl criticism after criticism at our use of Guantanamo and what (they think) goes on there, but they never have any alternatives to offer up.
Clashes erupt at Paris train station
PARIS - Riot police firing tear gas and brandishing batons clashed Tuesday with bands of youths who shattered windows and looted shops at a major Paris train station, officials said. Nine people were arrested.
Officials said about 100 people were involved in the melee at Gare du Nord, one of Paris' most important transport hubs. Officers and police dogs fired tear gas and charged at groups of marauding youths, some of them wearing hoods and swinging metal bars.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/ap_on_re_eu/france_subway_clashes
------------------------------------------
More "youth" problem in France. Well atleast this time carbon based life forms were not involved.
Compared to many 3rd world (and a few 1st) prisons Guantanamo bay is a hotel with a nice restaurant. That is why it is called Club Gitmo, I would bet that if we offered vacations at Gitmo to prisoners around the world many would jump at the opportunity. There might even be riots breaking out.
Shoot 'em in Gitmo.
Shoot 'em in Oz.
Before they are allowed to prey on the suicidally-stupid sympathies of the self-loathing, Islamically-ignorant appeasers of the pedophile warlord's intolerant, terroristic hordes.
Best attempted somersault of Dawood's cheer-squad: but he has renounced Islam!
He has never renounced his vile Jew-hatred or his Islamic supremacist yearnings. Ever. He has never apologized for that, or for fervently wishing upon his countrymen, many times, the cold dead hand of Islam.
special_guest
I think many Aussies see him for what he is, although it appears to have become a left versus right issue. I for one have no sympathy for him whatever.
He went there of his own free will, he had fought before in Kosovo,he went back to Afganistan etc etc. I don't think his 5 years in Gitmo makes any difference because as a "POW" he should stay there till the war is over.
(And did he fight in a soldier's uniform - no!)
Why should he deserve a trial?
His lawyers kept stalling all the way along too.
Also
Shiva: saw that story on http://www.skynews.com.au/story.asp?id=161250
The Gazans are in deep s***!!!!
I sometimes wonder if Hicks really wants to leave Gitmo.
If the situation was reversed. Would an American ex Taliban really want to come "Home" to the "General Population" to serve the sentence?
Can you Americans PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give him the death sentence.
Apparently he will get to serve time in one of our country club jails where he will get:
1) Free Uni degrees
2) Free gym
3) Free dole payments
4) Any drug he wants in jail
5) Early parole if his Labor Party lovin friends beat Howard at the next election.
....all at my expense (a taxpayer).
Oh I'm in Oz
3rdtimelucky
LOL! I would be quite happy if the US keeps him!
I find some of these comments truly disturbing. I take it all of us who are writing here live in democratic countries and value the freedom that we have. Not only do we value our human rights but we fight for them... we have constitutional rights and legal systems in place which are designed to ensure that not only our generation but the generation to come are guaranteed these rights. We demand that we be declared "innocent until proven guilty" and we set standards of evidence for ourselves. We are appalled when we see "injustice" occuring... serial rapists, serial killers, paedophiles... all people who have some degree of power to inflict harm over another and thrive in the pleasure they get from harming others. Yet when someone is "accused" of committing one of these crimes we do not go out and lynch them.
Or do we?
I mean if the police "charge" someone that means the person did it doesn't it?
Did I mention lynching?
No... we don't lynch people anymore! We have a jury that determins guilt AFTER BEING PRIVY TO EXAMINING ALL THE EVIDENCE AND THE PROCESS USED IN OBTAINING IT (just to make sure the evidence it isn't contaminated or "heaven forbid" obtained illegaly).
Have you ever questioned why we no longer lynch people? I think it's because we got it wrong too often... you see we are emotional and passionate people but we don't think all that rationally when our loved ones are hurt... we just want someone to blame, someone to PAY, and often anyone under suspicion will do.
Did I mention lynching?
None of us likes to put ourselves in the shoes of someone accused of "terrorism" - That is unthinkable because it stands against the freedom we hold so dear. Yet could you ever imagine yourself or anyone you know being accused of doing something and jailed for 5 years without charge... without being able to defend yourself/themselves. Surely that would never happen... it could never happen in a "Free" country like ours. Only in a Middle Eastern or obscure Asian country could that ever occur because those countries don't have the freedoms we have... it is only in these oppressive countries that and after 5 years in jail you would be told by the local sheriff... just say you did "it" and you can go! I mean that a plea bargain. And if 5 years without charge wasn't enough the "it" that you did wasn't illegal at the time you did "it"... oh no, "it" was illegal because a retrospective law was created so you can be jailed today for something you are ACCUSED of doing 5 years ago that wasn't actually illegal 5 years ago...
Did I mention lynching?
Yet it has happened in the "Land of the Free" and no one seems to care...
But then David Hicks (or whatever his name is) isn't one of ours... he isn't a misguided, lost, prodigal son citizen he's just a.....
Afgan-Tali-(Half Pommy)-Ozzie from Down Under (or is that Middle East Under)
- a perfect candidate for a lynching!
And so... it's just easier to blame him for every terrorist act against our soil and beyond and...
Lynch him!
Urbancowboy
__________________________________________
As Sam Conde put it:
A person's human rights can NEVER be secured at the expense of another's.
Risky_Comment,
While David Hick's human rights may have been violated, you cannot say so for sure and to what degree. Unless you are professing that he is innocent of all the "trumped up" charges, again impossible for you to call from your sofa, your discourse is useless and representative of liberal,left-wing, self-loathing.
Hell, while you are at it, why not just throw all judicial systems "under the bus" as unfair to the perpetrators detained therein, for surely you are of a mind that everyone is innocent with the noted exception of those in power who attempt to maintain societal order to protect the innocent, the truly innocent, people not held in detention in Gitmo currently.
Gitmo, the torturous "hell-hole", with Qur'an distribution, halal foods, etc., with unwarranted concessions made to the detained, but not yet convicted, quite similar to the experience the Jews enjoyed in lovely places like Auschwitz, detained and simultaneously convicted of the atrocity of.....being a Jew.
Whenever I read stories like this, I stop and think, are the accused being treated with human dignity? It lasts for a moment or two and then I remember the video of the beheading of Nick Berg at the hands of Al-Zwaqhari, the judge, jury and executioner all wrapped into one, employing the ultimate justice to the man, so obviously guilty of.....being a Jew.
I always wonder if Nick Berg would have traded up for the torturous hell-hole of a place like Gitmo, in light of the violation of his human rights which would follow, but realize that his protests went unheeded, right after his head was sawed-off. When that reality hits home, nothing that even the esteemed Rosie O'Donnell could say, could make me feel otherwise.
If you are an Islamist, then your comments make sense. If not, well then I will pray that God will have mercy on your soul, the kind of mercy Nick Berg was never afforded nor offered.
I'm an Australian. And one thing that's been puzzling me all along is this: I don't think I've heard or read in our MSM any clear, coherent account of when, how and by the agency of whom this foolish fellow-citizen of mine first got suckered into Islam. That's the thing I REALLY want to know. Which book/ website/ mosque? Where? Which taqiyya-spouting cleric? Which smiling muslimah? (his wife wears hijab).
Can any other Aussie poster on this site - or anyone else - tell me whether David Hicks' 'Islamic conversion story' has ever been told?
Personally, I think he should have been hauled back home, here, as soon as he was caught (after reasonable question time with appropriate interrogators) and tried in the courts in his own home town, with all due process of Australian civil law, with all his former schoolmates and everybody else there to watch and listen and learn all about how the Death Cult messes with your head. That way, he couldn't have claimed Big Bad America was martyring him - he'd just have been cooling his heels in the local clink, right alongside the murderers, rapists, fraudsters, etc, just like any other common crook. He was born under our law; let the full force of that law (which he rejected for Sharia) come down on him.
Then, once he's got life imprisonment, book him for compulsory sessions with the kind of psychologist who specialises in deprogramming the victims of cults.
It won't happen that way. Pity.
PS I wonder if anyone's ever told Hicks' father that horrid line of Muhayissa's - 'had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you [his brother, Huwayissa] I would have cut your head off', and warn him that Hicks' loyalty to Islam would ideally include being prepared to behead his dad on orders of Muslim superiors, if said dad got in the way of Islam?
Urbancowboy- well put.
Dumbledore- I agree, Hicks should have been brought back to Australia to face trial, under the usual rule of law.
Awake- Nick Berg's sad fate is nothing to do with Hicks. I believe the perpetrator of that horror is in custody. As for the "trumped up" charges, its seems odd that the "military commission" had to be reformed, and that the charges eventually brought against Hicks was a new one, applied restrospectively. I doubt such a law would "get up" in the US court system, hence the application of the law outside the US.
It's amazing how someone who stands up for the rule of law is labelled a "left-wing self loather" "Islamist" etc. Is that the level of "debate" here? Are suggestions that this is a "hate site" not far wide of the mark? At least being labelled thus makes a change from being called a "right-wing, racist Islamophobe". Maybe I'm left-wing in comparison to Hitler and Ghengis Khan?
For the record, I reckon Hicks is is a bloody idiot and un-Australian, but that doesn't mean he should be abandoned by his government nor subjected to treatment which is inhumane- regardless of how the (real) Islamists treat infidels, or how bad third world gaols are. We are supposed to be better than them.
If David Hicks going to serve his sentence in Oz, he should be kept in solitary for fear of spreading his mental disease
I don't blame the man for pleading guilty after all that physical and mental torture for five odd years. Anyone in his shoes would do the same to just give his torturers a reason to let them go home.
History will condemn the United Snakes for Guantanamo and all those who supported it.
Alhamdulillah this innocent man will finally go home. May Allah reward him for all the injuries visited upon him.
Special guest:
Yes, public opinion has turned in favour of Hicks, for several reasons. One is that the Howard government has been seen to be bending over backwards to please the Americans, and this coincides with a huge increase in anti-war sentiment (given too that the pretexts for the Iraq war, WMD and al-Qaeda links have been shown to be pure BS). If Saddam Hussein had to be gotten rid of because he was a murdering tyrant, why has the US been so quiet on Mugabe in Zimbabwe? Is it because that now-miserable country has no oil? In relation to oil, it has appeared that the Iraq war has caused a shortage of oil, and therefore price hikes- and we pay a lot more than the US at the pump.
As for Hicks, the Gitmo kangaroo court is seen to be the joke it is, by many, and we have wide coverage of what Hicks' lawyers have had to say, including that of his US Marine lawyer Michael Mori, a man who seems to be widely admired here for his guts in standing up to the Gitmo crowd.
More than anything else, Hicks' treatment, whatever his crimes, has been widely seen to be way outside the Australian ethic of "giving a person a fair go".
Risky Business:
Hicks is a proclaimed Warrior of Allah joining in the war against the West proclaimed by his pimp, bin Laden. As far as i'm concerned he is a war criminal by his own proclaimation, an enemy of my country and deserves to be treated as a prisoner of war with out any of the civil niceties that he so deplored from Infidel governments. He told his daddy he was a soldier an now he suffers the interment as an enemy soldier in the third World War. The conditions of his containmnet and the cruelty that you profess to know is heresay as the Mujadeen seems to be converting back to an Infidel personna as he faces his proclaimed enemy.
But you are right. He should be sent back to Australia. The US tax dollars that clothe feed and house him are wasted. The scum who rule his army of Allah would not have provided 10% of such courtesy and civility. Perhaps you or Bono could take him in?
I live in Melbourne and I get mightily annoyed by TV and other media and the way Hicks is referred to. They make reference to "when do you think David will be coming home?" as though he's the boy next door instead of the scumbag he really is. There's been a definite glossing over of what he was involved in - instead it's all about the wicked Americans keeping him in G.Bay without trial.
"One is that the Howard government has been seen to be bending over backwards to please the Americans, and this coincides with a huge increase in anti-war sentiment (given too that the pretexts for the Iraq war, WMD and al-Qaeda links have been shown to be pure BS)."
-- from a posting above
One more reason to get out of Iraq. For others, who are the most natural allies of the United States, may lose power and only because they have embraced, in a folie a deux, the mad Bush policy of remaining in Tarbaby Iraq. The Howard government is likely to lose, and if it does, it will be in the main because of the war in Iraq, which is unpopular -- and rightly unpopular, because it makes no sense.
It makes no sense because no one has explained how a unified Iraq, an Iraq in which Kurds remain, acquiesce to having only autonomy under Arabs who have mistreated them, and will if given a chance continue to mistreat them (as Arab Muslims do everywhere to non-Arab Muslims, in North Africa, in the Sudan, even in the camps of Afghanistan), an Iraq in which somehow the Sunnis acquiesce in the Shi'a possessing real power, and permanently (whatever plausible "oil-sharing" arrangements are agreed to under the watchful eyes of the Americans, and which can be torn up just as soon as they leave), will further the larger interests of Infidels.
It is depressing to see the Howard Government, with the right views on Islam, but the wrong views on Iraq (based on a failure to study the matter independently, or based on a desire to trust or support Bush coute que coute, no matter how nonsensical his policy, or based as well on the humanly understandable, but still unacceptable sticking to a policy just because in so doing, one is sticking it to people one cannot stand--the Australian equivalents of Cindy Sheehan, or Jane Fonda, or others of that dismal ilk).
The Howard Government doesn't have to go down with the S. S. Naufragium, Bush's sinking ship of foolish state. Those who support the world-wide attempt by Infidels, in any way, to fend off the attacks of Islam (whether it be by publishing those Danish cartoons, or raiding this or that mosque, or changing immigration policies, or seizing assets of this or that phony Muslim charity, or bombing Iran's nuclear facilities, or demanding an end to Jizyah payments by Western governments, taking their own taxpayers' money and giving it to Egypt, to Pakistan, and to the "Palestinians" who are merely the local Arabs who, re-named, have become the obvious shock troops of the Lesser Jihad -- the first one, but hardly the most important one -- against Israel.
Bush has done such damage to the cause of the Infidels, in his stubbornness and confusion. And he is even causing damage to those who are America's natural friends abroad, but who, as with the Howard government in Australia, have hitched their wagon to the wrong, most idiotic, star.
There are so many things about Bush and Tarbaby Iraq to infuriate the clear-headed resisters of Islam and its adherents -- including a few American generals who, now leaving or about to leave the military -- will one hopes let Bush, and his obstinate and self-defeating policy, have it. With both barrels.
At last!!! Dawood will be free!!! I am so happy for him.
What have the Amreekis got out of this innocent man's torture and detension for five years Except increase him in emaan (faith)? And create a world more hotile to the amreekis
Sometimes, the thinking of so-called conservative disbelievers amazes me
At last!!! Dawood will be free!!! I am so happy for him.
What have the Amreekis got out of this innocent man's torture and detension for five years Except increase him in emaan (faith)? And create a world more hotile to the amreekis
Sometimes, the logic of so-called conservative disbelievers amazes me
At last!!! Dawood will be free!!! I am so happy for him.
What have the Amreekis got out of this innocent man's torture and detension for five years Except increase him in emaan (faith)? And create a world more hostile to the amreekis
Sometimes, the logic of so-called conservative disbelievers amazes me
urbancowboy : He has admitted guilt. The Nazi's were not tried until AFTER the war. Hicks in this regard has special treatment.
He has admitted to fighting for an organisation that has murdered not only USA citizens, but his own countrymen as well.
He was not in a uniform when caught. He is a traitor to his own country. If it were 1941 he would have been shot by now by a generation that had more respect and knowledge of democracy than what twisted lefties who support Hicks have today.
Risky_Comment wrote:
Awake- Nick Berg's sad fate is nothing to do with Hicks. I believe the perpetrator of that horror is in custody. As for the "trumped up" charges, its seems odd that the "military commission" had to be reformed, and that the charges eventually brought against Hicks was a new one, applied restrospectively. I doubt such a law would "get up" in the US court system, hence the application of the law outside the US.
Actually, no. The perpetrator of that crime is dead, killed in an air strike by the US in Iraq. Your basic incomprehension of the major Islamic players and the Islamic game of world dominance in general, speaks volumes.
If you believe Hicks is innocent of all that he plead to, under unbearable duress by your account, just say so. It is entirely possible, albeit to the irreparably naive alone, that he was merely picked out of a crowd because he supposedly converted to Islam, spending his afternoons hanging around the local soda shop, listening to the juke, but I for one, doubt it.
Leftist, media driven, anti-US slander supposedly shed light on the intolerable conditions and practices in the institution of Gitmo, leading to the "reform of the military commision", by your account alone, but now ironically, military tribunals have been enacted.
Your ignorance is absolutely astounding. Is there anything that you have said that can be supported by fact? Also, why waste your time here on this "hate-site", when you can better serve the Islamist with your time and money, fighting for a man's freedom to which you have no assurance is warranted. At least that way, the Islamists will put you down on the bottom of the list of having to make the triple-choice mandated in the Qur'an, unless of course, you have already made it and converted.
Do you know anything about Islam, anything at all, or are you just blowing off steam here? I might suggest that you hit "Islam 101" on the top right of the main header on this site. It's a good start, graciously placed to aid the Islamically-challenged, and contrary to your non-substantive utterings, can be factually supported by mountains of historical empirical evidence.
G'day mate...
Hugh: Even if Rudd (the opposition) were in power back when Iraq was invaded, we would have supported the USA somehow.
Many in Australia have this blind faith that the USA will defend us come hell or high water.
Besides, we can't defend ourselves (and we refuse to get nukes, which when we tried back in the 60's, our "allies" the USA and Brits stifled our attempts), hence the need the blind faith of the USA alliance.
dumbledoresarmy
I have no idea how he came to be a muslim. You are right;it has never really been mentioned.
Posters above are talking about human rights:
Yes, I believe in human rights.
However, what people seem to forget is that he CHOSE to do what he did.
He was NOT an accidental tourist.
He was NOT brought back to OZ because we did not have the laws to try him: he could have walked straight off the 'plane to wherever he wanted.(my guess would be the local sleeper cell and/or mosque).
So he was held without a charge for 5 years.
Well, there is a war going on so he becomes a POW till the war is over. That's how it works as far as I know about the Geneva Convention.
Fellow-Aussies: why should he get any better treatment than our men got from the Japanese in Changi?
Pls, if I am wrong tell me.
At least in Gitmo he was safe and well-fed.
Having said that the main "complication" I see is that at one point the US was backing the Taliban and unfortunately for Hicks, after 9/11, the US changed tack. But by then Hicks knew this and continued on his merry way.
I just hope the next election isn't fought over a person who couldn't be less deserving of being a cause celebre.
Here is another article on this:
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/
Abdullah wrote: "I don't blame the man for pleading guilty after all that physical and mental torture for five odd years. Anyone in his shoes would do the same to just give his torturers a reason to let them go home.
History will condemn the United Snakes for Guantanamo and all those who supported it.
Alhamdulillah this innocent man will finally go home. May Allah reward him for all the injuries visited upon him."
Abdullah, I'm not sure of you are a genuine Islamist apologist or just some foolish left-wing troll pretending to be one; either way, your comments are asinine.
For a start, the conditions in Guantanamo prison are far better than in the vast majority of similar institutions in most of the Islamic world where they really do torture people and deprive them of basic rights.
You also say that "history will condemn the United States for Guantanamo and all those who supported it". Well, history is usually written by the victors, and I should like to think that the side of freedom and human dignity will eventually win, and then history will condemn Islamic barbarism and all those who supported it (such as yourself).
As for the clown David Hicks, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that he is guilty. He was in Afghanistan to assist Al-Qaeda in its war against civilization and deserves to pay a very heavy price for that. He was assisting an organization that desires to slaughter innocent people en-masse; and as such, he is the lowest of the low. And as for your Allah rewarding him "for all the injuries visited upon him", I have news for you: your moon God Allah doesn't exist, except in the febrile imaginations of you and your co-religionists; and notwithstanding his lack of corporeality, he is really a nasty, violent and profoundly unpleasant sort of God don't you think?
Finally, and assuming that you are a bonna fide Mohammedan, Abdullah, I cherish the prospect of your apostasy and release from the hell-sourced belief system in which you are currently imprisoned (far worse than the imagined constrictions of Guantanamo Bay); until then, I must consider you my enemy, not least because you sympathise with, and support, those who seek to bring that which is "only evil and inhuman" to this world.
During WW2 those who turned against Britain and fought with the Nazis were taken to military courts and sentenced.
Similarly those who conspired to disseminate Nazi propaganda were sentenced and sometimes executed (EG Lord HAW HAW).
however it was Britain who finally and courageously that declared war on Germany and therefore war legislation was brought into being.
however much we might welcome the treatment of turncoats to be judged under those laws, NO STATE OF WAR has been declared by the west on Islamic Jihad. Indeed it is instead, the Islamists who have declared war on the west. They therefore feel absolutely justified in beheading or executing their captives.
Because we are too weak to acknowledge and legalise the war that is being waged against us we are unable to sentence that traitors who join the jihadists to kill us .
Thousands of British born Pakistanis have gone home to train for jihad under the very noses of the British security services.
They can say what they like for example :- that they are on a holiday of spiritual regeneration or training in self defence. Because NO State of war exists, between Britain and the jihadists, the authorities are forced to overstep their powers to stop them and this launches the anger of all the human rights groups and leftists, NGOs, academics etc.
So what happens when they turn against the British and blow them up in schools and supermarkets etc?
They will be unable to be judged as enemy combatants and will be supported by the British leftists who are far more radical than even the Australians and are far more concerned over the human rights of Jihadists than those of their victims.
We are now faced with a situation that when the OZ forces return form Iraq, they will be pelted with rotten tomatoes and eggs. as was the case for the vietnam conscripts. and when Hick returns he will be showered with garlands of flowers and confetti!
Praise those who seek to destroy us and attack only those who defend our democracy!
I never believed such moral inversions would ever be achieved in Australia.
Aslamu aleykum Abdullah
Where is your proof at David Hick's innocence? When are Muslims like you going to startaccepting that we must take collective responsibility for Islam's problems. Not George Bush, Tony Blair or Ehud Olmert. I have no problem with Guantanomo. It is a necessary evil. The laws of war are changing because so are the modalities. To be relevant international law must reflect the changes in these modalities.
Abudallh what is your opinion on the current state of Islam? Is it just fine? What is your opinion on the St Petersburg Declaration? (here:http://www.secularislam.org/blog/post/SI_Blog/21/The-St-Petersburg-Declaration ) which brought together Muslims and some ex-Muslims to discuss moving forward and identifiying problems that Muslims must confront.
I encourage you to change your way of thinking, that Muslims and Islam are victims. We are not, we are the aggressors in this conflict. Why? Because our texts tell us so...
Hello Haidon
Nice to see you again.
Thank you for your most excellent post.
I have watched the Declaration with Ibn Warraq and recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it yet.
If the whole world followed what he says in this clip we would all be well on the way to having world peace, mutual respect and understanding.
assuming that you are a bonna fide Mohammedan, Abdullah
...
He's not. He's a phoney.
believe it or die, dudes...
nabi ZK
Hick's father is part of the big lie about the mistreatment of Hicks . The guy is as healthy as punch . Overweight too .
I'd like to mention that if his side caught a traitor ( a.k.a "apostate" ) he would be summarily killed .
The Government of India is currently investigating Hicks' role in terrorist acts in Kashmir a few years ago .
The "ordeal" may yet be over for this man . India may ask for his extradition after he has served his first sentence !
Good riddance.
purplemarbles..
excellent point. the hell of an indian gaol would make guantanamo look like a holiday camp.. and him serving his time in the relative oppulance of an adelaide gaol, probably in solitary under protection, is a joke.
And note he got his baptism of fire, fighting for the KLA against those oh so naughty Serbs.
Saw pictures of Mohammed Daewoo's[sorry that's the car] cell-looked very modern,clean & comfortable to me.Perhaps Mr Mo would have preferred a stinking cage in Afghanistan,a rat infested cell in Indonesia,another stinking cage
in Pakistan or a torture chamber in Iraq,Egypt,or
Saudi Arabia-all of them lovely,peaceloving Islamic countries??
Personally think a bullet would have sent him speedily to Allah & saved the Infidel Taxpayer a small fortune instead of keeping this Traitor alive.
As Global Jihad racks up momentum predict Infidels will forget their Softly,Softly approach
to Muslims-they will be our enemies just as Nazis
were in WW2,only this time millions of the bastards are behind our lines.Know from reading numerous Islamic Sites that Muslims see the West as 'Weak & Degenerate'[mind you when I look at David Hicks I think so too] but remember HITLER WAS DEFEATED ALSO OTTOMAN EMPIRE AT GATES OF VIENNA.Also remember Spain has its Reconquista-come back Queen Isabella-and Balkan Countries who had suffered under Islamic yoke for 5,00yrs
also reclaimed their own lands-note Serbia[so maligned] was at the forefront of all battles.
This time let Infidels Unite and reclaim all what was once Christian-yes let us reclaim Constantinople & large parts of Turkey.
I support the continued operation of Guantonomo. It is a necessary evil. The legal system around it, is questioanble from a human rights perspective. But human rights are not absolute. There are reasonable limits set by a democratic society, that can limit them. Balancing of interests and rights has to be undertaken to determine if a government policy unjustifiedly breaches those rights. In this case it does not, those at Guantonomo cannot be afforded certain legal proections, because to do so would compromise national security. Therefore the criminal procedure rights under the Bill of Rights can be put aside, in the national interest.
Thanks Granfam. I wish I could have attended. The Conference was pretty amazing, and despite what some have said devout Muslims took part and added significant value to the proceedings, and worked in harmony with secular, and ex-Muslims.
Yeah: Gitmo!
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/28/life-is-good-in-gitmo-the-result-of-too-many-hallal-burgers/
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 28, 2007 06:00 AM
SLOL
yep a ROTFL
Gold Star for you today!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS TE USA AND HER FIGTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGHT,WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL MULSUM TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Oh no... Please god no.
oh yea forgot some Judges get it right!!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261725,00.html
RUMSFELD CAN'T BE TRIED FOR ALLEGATIONS OF TORTURE IN OVERSEAS MILITARY PRISONS
Tuesday, March 27, 2007
WASHINGTON — Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday.
U.S. District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.
NOW THIS REALLY MADE MY DAY A GREAT DAY WILL HAVE TO PUT ON A SHORT SKIRT AND GO SHOPPING FOR MORE SHORT SKIRTS!!
Seems like GITMO actually does hold "terrorists"...despite what the dhimmicrats and limpwristed leftists claim...
Abdullah you stupid mullah!
See if you can ask for a bible in a saudi prison.
You would be lucky if they just chop your head off.
"Hicks is one Muslim convert whose Muslim name has never been used in news reports about his case. Why is that?" - Posted by Robert.
Well the reason that is, is because in Australia your name (outside marriage) doesnt change except by "deed poll". Any other name this boy might be referred to would only be a nickname...
If anyone can show a deed poll of David Hicks changing his name, then please do so.
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) Taking of hostages;
(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.
read this carefully, article 3 of the Geneva Convention
Alhamdulillah this innocent man will finally go home. May Allah reward him for all the injuries visited upon him.
Posted by: Abdullah
hey Abdullah, there is no innocent islamist, how does your allah praise those islmaist who car bomb over eighty people in iraq a few days ago? it seems your allah loves blood and death even among his supporters. your allah is roasting in hell and his followers are joining him.
"read this carefully, article 3 of the Geneva Convention"
...Muslims neither read the Geneva Convention nor adhere to it .....in fact..they laugh at it...
Abdullah--oops! Abd-al-Iblis:
What did we Amreekis get out of Hicks? Your address, that of your whole extended Kishlak and Aul, the imam of your mosque, and a few other things. Next time you attack civilians in one of our cities, just see what the Fire Next Time will be like!
Kepha
Whoa lil' champ. Settle down. Personal threats shouldnt be welcomed here.
"...Muslims neither read the Geneva Convention nor adhere to it .....in fact..they laugh at it...
Posted by: exsgtbrown "
That is indeed most interesting!
I kinda figured they ddn't ahdere to it but do they expect us to adhere to it? I am guessing "yes"!
Haidon:
I bet you would have made a very good contribution to that event.I know you are doing your best:)