Saudi Foreign Minister to Israel: Accept peace plan or face war

Non-state actors are not subject to agreements and treaties made by "Every Arab country ". Israel cannot accept any such plan until Al Qeada and every other non-state action group are utterly destroyed by Islamic countries.

This is a crock.

Condi will buy it.

GWB will bless it.

The Arabs love it.

Euro-trash will throw billions at it.

But in the end it will be war, and G-d is with US....

"Prince Saud said Israel should accept or reject this final offer."

...translated--die now or die later.....

"What we have the power to do in the Arab world, we think we have done,"

he said. "So now it is up to the other side because if you want peace, it is not enough for one side only to want it. Both sides must want it equally."

If Islamic fascists were logical, they wouldn't threaten anyone. If a tiny little country like Israel, with around 5 million Jews, was able to , to the point that no Muslim nation dares to attack Israel in a conventional war, why would they try it again?
Cease! You can't destroy what God has planted, if God doesn't want it to be distroyed.

There are two options for Islamic fascists:
1. Accept the fact that Israel is in their land to stay. (They are not going anywhere).

or

2. Face another humiliating defeat in another useless war.

Your choice, islamo-fascists!

they are trying to dictate terms.
only the winner gets to dictate terms.
otherwise it's called give-and-take.

right now there are non-negotiable items on the table: like the right if return.

until one side loses this item will prevent any settlement.

when we move beyond the age of oil, and the saudis and iran are bankrupted, then there will be a settlement. their money and ideologies are the root cause of radical islam.

well... that the the koran...

We already have war.

The addled followers of the evil ideology are already at war.

Will someone please tell Chucky Schumer and Chuckey Hegel.

We don't need a reminder from the scum Saudis.

Dudes

This peace plan is crock.

It not only asks for Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders, it also asks for the "right of return" for Arabs (Palestinians). This last point undermines Israel as it means demographic Jihad. In the end, Israel will be swamped with Arabs. There is no way Israel can accept it.

Americans : Get yourself a new Secretary of State. Condi, for all her brillance, does not seem to be street smart. She does not seem to see through "honeyed" Arab words. She does not seem capable of seeing what their long-term intentions are. And stick by Israel no matter what. I realise here in Europe our leaders have committed treachery against Israel and blinded ourselves to Arab greed. It is practically the only democratic country in the Middle East.

Am reading Jihadwatch with an eye on telly where
BBC-Biased Broadcasting Corporation[or propaganda
arm of Al Jazeera in U.K] promises to show Arab
League in their 'MiddleEast Peace Plan.' Gee-can't wait to see BBC Crawlers such as John Simpson prostrating his fat ass as No 1 Dhimmi towards his Saudi Masters...

"So now it is up to the other side because if you want peace, it is not enough for one side only to want it. Both sides must want it equally."

If you want peace? As in :

*the utterly unproductive,

*foreign aid/loot dependent,

*self-imposed perpetual state of victimhood

Submissive, demoralizing dead end peace of islam?

That's just a few reasons the lost souls of believers find the peace of death the equivalent or better in islam.

Thanks, but no thanks.

So Saudi Arabia can guarantee that the Arab world will recognize Israel after more concessions? What about the non Arab Iranians? And what happens if today's "moderate" Arab government in, say, Jordan, is replaced tomorrow by an extremist one? And does anyone really believe Syria will buy into this? Besides, what exactly is "recognition"?
Egypt has relations with Israel and I don't think
those relations are warm and friendly.

Nice try Riyadh but no thanks. Too many questions in return for too many concessions. Besides, Islam makes lying a virtue so how can the ummah ever be trusted? Hopefully the clueless Olmert won't fall for THIS baloney.

Muslims only recognize 3 types of peace with infidels: - death, conversion to islam, or dhimmitude (only for Jews, Christians and Zorastrians who acknowledge that mohammed is the muslim's prophet and also cede other islamic ideas).

And since Israel are not behaving as proper dhimmi - their only choice is to start behaving as proper dhimmi - if they want to live. Their land is muslim booty and to be distributed as the muslims see fit. OR else they will be dead.

yep, so much for the 'religion of peace'.

In other words: No Progress. No news. The plan is a failure.

If there is a statesman left in Israel, he should be asking the government, and the people of his country, and the world, what the Israelis are to make of the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya, and its use as the basis for Muslim treaty-making with Infidels. That statesman should quote from various books, beginning but not ending with Majid Khadduri's "Law of War and Peace in Islam" and simply ask: What shall we make of this? What should we, or any Infidel state, make of this treaty, which serves as a model and guide, and which gives us reason to believe that any "peace" treaty is merely a "hudna" -- that is, a "truce" treaty, whatever it is called?

It may be that right now such a treaty serves the Muslim Arabs' interest, or rather the Sunni Arabs' interest, for at the moment they would prefer to inveigle the Americans into putting down the supposed "Shi'a threat" or as Abdullah of Jordan likes to warn darkly about, that "Shi'a crescent." There's a threat, all right, to Sunni Arab wellbeing in the takeover, by Shi'a, of the Land of the Two Rivers and of that fabled madinat al-salaam, Baghdad, a great wound to Sunni Arab pride -- but the Shi'a domination of most of Iraq, including what counts most in Iraq -- the oil, Baghdad -- does not harm Infidel interests, rightly conceived, nor do Sunni-Shi'a hostilities. But such a treaty -- a further retreat by Israel, a giving up of its legal, historic, and moral claims, all in order to obtain an essentially, or rather quintessentially, worthless piece of paper, with the Muslim signatures on such a document written in what always amounts to disappearing ink (every single treaty or agreement to which Israel has been a partner (the violation of the 1949 Armistice agreements), or every single treaty or undertaking or agreement about Israel (such as Nasser's 1956 guarantees made to obtain an Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai, about freedom of Suez shipping, freedom of movement in the Straits of Tiran, and no Egyptian militarization of the Sinai, were broken, by Arab states, and every single agreement made by the "Palestinians" (the Oslo Accords, and minor agreements before and after) have been violated in every particular by the Arab Muslim side -- and that is done not surreptitiously, or embarrassedly, but openly, blatantly, as if by right. Because, of course, in the Muslim view, it is by right.

There is not a single Muslim Arab state that does not long for, and will not work for, the elimination of the State of Israel. Those states, and the peoples in them, cannot stand the idea of an Infidel state on what was once part of Dar al-Islam, and not only part of Dar al-Islam, but right there, in its midst. This will never end, and there is no solution to be found, unless one relishes (and there are many who do, let's face it) the disappearance of that state, and the certain massacre of its Jewish inhabitants, which would be far worse than anything going on in Darfur, or in Kurdistan during Saddam Hussein's reign, or in Rwanda.

The Jihad, however, has many instruments. In Western Europe, islamization proceeds not through "terror" (which is not the only reason the phrase "war on terror" is so silly, so misleading) but through well-financed and targetted campaigns of Daw'a (such as those by Tablighi Jamaat, and many other groups, and merely by individual Muslims, always keen to find recruits for the Umma, for the Army of Islam), and of course unconstrained immigration, and overbreeding seen, discussed, written about, as the means by which the Lands of the Infidels may be inherited by Muslims, and the goal of Believers fulfilled -- all obstacles to the rule of Islam removed, so that "Islam dominates and is not to be dominated."

Israel has a very ignorant, very timid, very confused, very bad government. It has had such governments for quite a while. In this it is little different from the rest of the civilized Western world, failing to come to grips with a problem that was foreseen, and analyzed, long ago, by a very few specialists in Islamic matters, most notably that soft-spoken small and steely woman, Bat Ye'or.

But for its own sanity, and the safety not only of its people but to help get other Infidels thinking about their situation, the government of Israel has a duty to raise the issue of Al-Hudaibiyya and force declarations on the matter from Arab states.

And it has another duty. That duty is to raise the even larger question: what does Islam inculcate, what do Muslims believe, about the permanence of any Infidel state, anywhere? Yes, we know the answer. But not everyone does. And everyone among the Infidels everywhere -- in Thailand, and in India (where some may think that sacrificing Kashmir will lead the Muslims of Pakistan and India to cease their attacks, when it will do nothing of the sort), and in the Philippines, and in France and Germany and Great Britain and Spain and the Netherlands and Belgium and Norway (in the grim grip not of Thor's sons but of Quislingettes, of the unshakeably pro-"Palestinian" variety) and Sweden (more or less ditto).

The Spanish need to know what the Moroccans in their midst think, what they think when they hear the word "Al-Andalus." And the Portuguese. And those living in southwest France, right up to Poitiers. The Italians need to understand what will happen to Sicily. The Greeks, the Serbs (no, they don't need to be reminded, they know), the Croats, the Slovenes, the Rumanians, the Bulgarians, even the Hungarians, need to know what, in Islamic terms, their former status under Ottoman Muslim rule means for their status, in Muslim eyes, today.

And what about the rest of us, living as we fondly believe, in places that were never part of Dar al-Islam? What we, in North America and Australia and other places fail to realize, is that the whole word belongs to Islam, and it is only a matter of time and tactics, in the Muslim view. While some Muslims have comically tried to backdate their connection to various places -- claims that Muslims settled long ago in Australia, or were on the boat with Columbus, have already been tellingly made, and while Infidels joke about it, that kind of thing is not quite a joke for the Muslim masses, steeped deeply in a crazed view of history, easily susceptible to any tall tale or conspiracy theory, a susceptibility made much greater than among most non-Muslims today because Islam, more than any other belief-system called a religion, inculcates the habit of mental submission, to not merely the will, of Allah, but to the whim of Allah, who does whatever he wants, breaks every rule, akin as Maimonides wrote to a caliph out for a jaunt on his jade.

Israel may be the most publicized victim of the Jihad -- a Lesser Jihad. But there is India, beginning but hardly ending with Kashmir (in the end, most of India was once under Muslim rule, and therefore part of Dar al-Islam). There are the Balkans, all of the Balkans, and Greece, Bulgaria, and so on. There is the Iberian Peninsula. There is Sicily.

And then there is all the rest of the non-Muslim world, the Bilad al-kufr, the Land of Unbelief, the Lands of the Infidels. And fantastic as it may seem -- and among the barriers to comprehension among Westerners is the inability to imagine, to actually imagine what the Muslim mind is like, and a readiness to accept the most cleverly, outwardly westernized and secularized and smooth Muslims, as the most unrepresentative of "representative" men, and to draw conclusions from them, as the Bush Administration did in being persuaded by some elegant Shi'a in exile to remove Saddam Hussein for them, having been assured that everything would go smoothly, that the "liberation of Baghdad would make the liberation of Kabul look like a funeral procession."

A failure of imagination, together with a failure of knowledge, and a failure of those whose dutyu it is, all over the Infidel world, to instruct and protect their own people.

And while Israel may not be the worst offender, it is the country most threatened, and the country where, if a few would start speaking the unpleasant truth about the permanence of the Lesser Jihad against it, the effect will not, as some may fear, simply demoralize the population, but give it a salutary boost: the boost that comes from at long last recognizing, and being able to accept and deal with, what is a difficult but not impossible situation.

And if Israel could do that, it would help the countries of Western Europe (if the antisemites, posing as intrepidly brave reporters on the Middle East, are removed from the positions of influence into which they have managed to infiltrate) to protect and defend, and preserve themselves, as well.

Bill Clinton's Mideast peace initiative in the late 1990s is proving a long-term disaster.

What happened a decade ago was to legitimize terrorism and thereby incent not only the Moslem activists active in the region, but all Moslems.

It's like San Francisco or the Village in spring time, everybody's out of the closet now.

Lawyers have an old saying "don't drink your own whiskey." Well, Moslem and Marxist alike truly believe the fictive reality myth that Palestinians were robbed of their homeland by the Jews, and such self-serving credulity is a recipe for disaster.

This is a page I've kept marked and it still makes many valid, solid points.

http://www.think-israel.org/neuwirth.winwin.html

Add to this the fact that at current oil prices, the OPEC countries are bringing
in roughly 1.8 billion dollars per day. It it quite obvious that the Saudis could
do almost unimaginable good in this issue if they really desired.

-NoMo

Breathtaking synopsis, augury, and prescription Hugh.

It should be posted on every website dedicated to preserving Western civilization.

I saw comments on this from author Dore Gold late last night. He was absolutely correct when he surmised that any treaties that propose to give back any part of Jerusalem would simply be seen as another victory for Islamic jihad and would escalate violence, not reduce it.

We have got to get leaders to understand that we are AT WAR with the Religion of Peace, not because we want to be, but because the Islamists have declared it.

The very idea of the Israelis giving back territories that they won in a war in which the surrounding Muslim attackers were bent on genocide of the Jewish people makes me puke. Does anyone seriously believe for a minute that the Muslims would ever give back territories that they had won in a fight? The majority of the Islamic world we see today was taken by force!

To Hell with Saudi Arabian demands. The Saudis are our worst enemies on this planet -- masquerading as friend while poisoning us with sugary sweets and funding our deadliest enemies and worst of all - perpetuating the spread of Islam across the globe, a pox on humanity.

"and of course unconstrained immigration"

......ban Muslim Immigration now....

Those who are merciful to the cruel in the end are cruel to the merciful.
Talmudic saying.

There is not enough stability in the muslim world.

This Arab peace plan may hold true for some Saudi King or Arab leader today, but 5 years from now when he is beheaded or replaced by a terrorist government in a show "democratic" election it will not hold true.

So Israel should not buy into it and should state as its reason that there is not enough stability in the Arab world.

It is as I predicted and posted here. In 2001, a plan was instigated to bleed off terrorists from the world and kill them in the Iraq theater.

People complained enough about Iraq in not allowing it to work out that now President Bush and the other members from Saudi Arabia to even the Israeli state have now been forced by their peoples to implement the inhumane strategy.
For historical reference, the American government in humanity in the Indian plains wars decided to kill the buffalo and radical Indians instead of killing all the Indians. This is what Iraq was supposed to be, but people who did not understand the plan have ruined it so much that now the Muslim leaders know in order to keep their heads, the west knows that oil supply must be kept viable and the Russians have signed off on it for the reason of oil domination and Chicoms for the reason they do not want this Islamic war reaching them, now all conclude that a WMD exchange in kill zones is all that will settle this.

For those who have only seen Iraq and lamented 3000 US dead and the floating figure of 100,000 Iraqi dead, what is coming to the region now is going to have that many dead in a second. Entire regions are going to be wiped out as well as cities.

George Bush gambled all he had in trying to save millions of Muslims which meant saving millions of Americans. For now, the Middle East is going to try and sacrifice the Judeans who will only bleed so much longer. The war is coming now in Phase 3 of this and God help Americans so the flood does not reach here in phase 4.

"Saudi Foreign Minister to Israel: Accept peace plan or face war"

Editing suggestion

"Saudi Foreign Minister to Israel: Accept peace plan and/or face war"

Does this apply to America? Accept "peace" after 9-11 funded from Saudi Arabia or risk "war"?

One is captured by the King of Arabia and he says you can either face death by war or accept "peace". All but one of the captives says they take war. The one who says "peace", the King says, death by peace.

This is truly the choice offered by the Quran. This should be known as the Quranic Choice or Dhimmi's Choice. Death by war or death by peace.

Chatillon, I didn't notice your post. Maybe we should be editors together.

The middle eastern countries are getting braver by the moment.

The U.S. is not serious, the democrats want to hand them the world.

The U.K. will not fight, and all of europe is dead.

They don't see any one to oppose them. They will start throwing their weight around instead of just their 'Persian money'.

if l were the Israeli PM, l would send to the Sowdi king whats his name, a map of the black rock of mecca with a nuke strike on it from Israel, and very short note on it, we strike this and many other of your favourite places if you dare threaten us again.

This is the exact peace offer that was made by Israel in 2000, which was rejected by Arafat and the response was the last intifada.

The only difference is that Israel is not offering 30 Billion dollars to the refugees.

This is also the exact peace proposal made by UN resolution 242, which only Egypt was willing to reciprocate.

Who knows, maybe the arab world will actually abide by the plan, now that it's on their terms.

Of course, I don't believe that they'll keep their word, but stranger things have happened.

Abba Eben had it right when he said that the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss and opportunity so why be surprised that the Saudis, who are their prime patrons, are any different. And Mamoun Fandy seems to agree:

Liberal Author Mamoun Fandy: Adding of the Right of Return to the Saudi Initiative Changed It From 'The Start of an Earnest Dialogue' to 'An Initiative Impossible to Implement'

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD152507