Two Jihad Watch Board members, Ibn Warraq and Tashbih Sayyid, are among the many great speakers now appearing at the Secular Islam Summit. The Jawa Report has a report:
Ibn Warraq began the Monday opening session with a call for an independent institute of Koranic studies. He noted that the existing institutes of Islamic studies, even in the U.S., are under the firm control of the Saudi islamists that fund them. He recounted stories of academics in Western universities who have been pushed out after refusing to toe the official Saudi party line, and argued that open inquiry on Islam can only succeed in an environment free from heavy-handed Saudi influence.Ibn Warraq was followed by Nonie Darwish, who denounced the "moderate" Muslims as being mere apologists for Islamic misbehavior. "Those who dare ask for change [in the Middle East] are made the enemy." She asked, "Where are the truth-seekers in Islam?" Islam's only response to opposition, she noted, is to become offended. Why do they have to kill apostates? Where is the confidence in what they have to offer? The most critical element of reform is to allow for freedom of conscience in religion.
Darwish was followed by Wafa Sultan. "We live in dangerous times," she noted. At the same time, many have faced fascism and communism within our lifetimes. We have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of religion. This not only allows us to speak, it makes it our obligation.
In the 21st century, we need to reconsider the literal language of the Koran. We have changed a lot, and we must change the practice of Islam. We must educate our population from an early age to place value on life. We need to educate the very young. Teach love, not hate. We know for a fact that Saudi Arabia builds the majority of the mosques and provides the textbooks for education. These are full of hardcore Wahhabi propaganda, which teach children to hate Jews and Christians.
"U.S. Air acted for us all when six imams acted strangely on that flight. And we apologized for their acts, which might have averted a disaster. America is the most tolerant country, but it is being abused on all levels. We cannot remain silent while calls for destruction of the West echo around the world. . . . It is not what we CAN do, but what we MUST do, to protect the United States. Our children and grandchildren are entitled to the same freedom we enjoy. We must abondon political correctness, which prevents us from speaking the truth. . . We must be united, strong and courageous. Americans are good people, and find it difficult to believe in evil. . . . Are the "moderate" Muslims afraid to speak, or are they sitting in silent support of the Islamists? . . . Wake up, America, before it is too late."
Next up was Tashbih Sayyed.
"The foundations of radical Islam are in the history of Islam." Sayyed noted that Mohammed was a prophet successful in acquiring religious converts and also in setting up a state. If Mohammed had distinguished between his role as prophet and his role as head of state, his acts as head of state may not have been interpreted as endowed by God. Examples include Mohammed's slaughter of the Jews and Mohammed's call to non-Muslims to embrace Islam.
Islam does not distinguish between mosque and state. We speak of "political Islam," but there is no such thing as apolitical Islam. Jihad is not an "inner struggle." "As a Muslim, I have not seen an artist or an author ever designated a mujahid."
There are aspects of the foundations of this faith, that prevent reform unless and until these foundations are challenged. If Mohammed had been a secular head of state rather than a prophet, those opposing Mohammed's state would not have been considered an enemy of Allah. But anyone who fights against a Muslim state is considered an enemy of Allah.
Fundamentalists consider Islam to be the ultimate truth. If Islam is the ultimate truth, reform is impossible. Unless you are ready to accept that truth is a work in progress, you cannot expect to live in peace with others. If I hold the ultimate truth, how can I allow my fellow world citizens to continue to live in darkness? Islamic thought is aimed at the consolidation of the Islamic state.
The problems we face can only be addressed in the United States. This is the only place where a dissident Muslim can speak and not be lynched. After a television interview over the meaning of Sami al-Arian's call for "death to America," he was called by CAIR. Who was he working for? Who was paying him? Why was he speaking against the ummah? His response : can I not be a good Muslim and also speak the truth?
Bravo, Tashbih. Bravo, Wafa, Nonie, and Ibn Warraq. I am deeply honored to know you all and to be working in the same field for the same goals.
"Sayyed noted that Mohammad was a prohet successful in acquiring other converts"
By invitation -- or by intimidation?
"Are the "moderate" Muslims afraid to speak, or are they sitting in silent support of the Islamists? . . . Wake up, America, before it is too late."
Wafa, America woke up years ago and we appreciate all your words in support of America. We are just waiting for the "moderate" Muslims to wake up. We can't be sure if they are awake and just keeping their eyes closed. No matter. We can still hear them. Their silence speaks volumes.
Yea -- their silence ain't too golden is it?
Their silence is deafening.
Remote Control
This reminds me about the debating handbook project, where some months ago, the topic you had selected had a goal to show that all the Jihad references in the Quran referred to a military endeavor rather than a spiritual one. While that went nowhere, this argument by Mr Sayyed above is a good one that goes about battling that claim.
I do wonder whether any of them - Sayyed, Shoebat, Sultan, Darwish, et al - have Quranic or Sunnah backing that demonstrates that Jihad isn't an inner struggle. Also, as a poster astutely noted here the other day, if Jihad is an inner struggle, why did Mohammed exempt the physically disabled from acting on it?
Hi Infidel -- glad you're back!
Good point, why WOULD Mo exclude the disabled. Perhaps for the same reason Mo treated women the way he did -- with disrespect. Women were dismissed as inferior beings, perhaps he viewed those with physical handicaps the same way.
I smell a Fallaci award for Wafa Sultan this year.
Thank you Robert for putting this on.
I was begining to think I was reading some other site.
Where reason and sensibility have taken a backseat to multicultural stuff that horses leave in a stall.
I am so glad there are people like this out there speaking out. God Bless them and keep them safe and I will try in my own simple way to share what they have to say.
I do not feel that America has anything to apologise for. We have a wonderful country with wonderful freedoms and I feel that these dificult times will hopefully wake more of us up to what a good thing we have and cause us to appreciate it that much more. Hug your kids, hug your flag and tell your family you love them. You never know if a tornado or a jihadist will take them from you tomorrow.
Ever since eteraz and esmay and that gang have been coming here my computer has been attacked. The firewall is constantly telling me that someone is trying to get in. Sumpin wrong with this picture?
Secular Islam summit.
Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron.
How can one be secular and a Muslim?
I cannot understand the mindset of the Muslims who want to reform Islam.
How can Islam be reformed without drastic editing of the Qur'an?
Even if, somehow, a way is found to fashion an Islam not based on the perfect example of Mohammed, eternal warfare against the infidel, the division of the world into dar-al Harb and dar al-Islam, and even if if all the hateful, violent pages in the Qur'an were removed, what would be left except a broken and meaningless shell?
What is the point of being Muslim without the core Islamic tenet of jihad in the example of Mohammed?
And what Islamic authority exists to enforce the new improved, moderate Islam, if it is ever found.
Isn't this all a bit of a pipe dream?
Couldn't the "moderate" Muslims in the West who would make use of their relative safety speaking out for Islamic reform, couldn't they use that relative safety to just make a clean break with Islam?
Perhaps we need to look at something like a "Muslim apostate relocation program" and further resources, to protect those Muslims who want to leave Islam but are afraid.
Why simply limited to "Wahhabi" propaganda? Are not those hateful sentiments expressed throughout the islamic trilogy Qu'ran, Haddith and Sira - the religious source for all of islam regardless of sect?
I admire Wafa Sultan but this appears to be a misleading statement. Eliminating the Wahhabist influence will do nothing to address the source which outlines the treatment of Jews and Christians.
Syed is only right to an extent. As an artist I would like to see artists referred to as mujahids.
However, Sufis engaged in a spiritual struggle, are often called mujahids by their students.
In certain Sufi sects, a woman on the spiritual path is usually called a mujahid.
Numerous Sufi saints who died in jail cells oppressed by tyrants were also called mujahids.
This is common knowledge.
Oh, yes!!!
You go, guys. You put the American Muslim community to shame!!!
God bless every one of you!!
What Congressional committee will call Ibn Warraq, Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, and others who were at this meeting to come and testify before Congess?
What Presidential candidates will meet, in the full and deliberate glare of publicity, with Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Will it be Tom Tancredo, or could it be Barack Obama? Whoever it is, that candidate will zoom up in the polls -- everyone is waiting for someone, anyone, to begin to semaphore that he understands the problem of Islam. And that someone will also force his opponents to begin to do the same, and that too is useful.
It is not the beyond-the-pale apologists for terrorism, or the so-called "moderate" Muslims, who should have a place, but the apostates from Islam who are akin to the defectors from Soviet Russia, or those who reported on the Nazis and Hitler, not as defectors but as refugees, and were not listened to sufficiently until it was too late, and the shooting war had begun.
There is no shooting war here to bring everyone to his senses. There is merely the slow drop-by-drop of Muslim migration, Muslim demands for changes, from those permitted to come and live within the infidel nation-states, for changes in their political and legal institutions and social arrangements, and the promotion of well-financed (mainly by the Saudis) campaigns of targetted Da'wa, aimied at prisoners, at certain immigrant groups, at all those who either economically or psychically marginal, have proven most susceptible to the siren-song, the whisperings, of those spreading Islam -- and Islam is simple-minded and easy to spread, for one need not know a thing (indeed, not knowing a thing about Islam will make one more readily convert to it) about Islam, but need only repeat the Shehada or Profession of Faith. That's it, and voila - one more Recruit for the Army of Islam.
Time to put those who, through no fault of their own, were born into Islam but fought their way, intellectually, out of it, front and center. And while the scoffers and sly belittlers (for one example, see the contemptible review by Ian Buruma in the Sunday Times of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in which he attempts to make much of her reading, as a young Muslim girl, of such trash --age-appropriate trash -- as Barbara Cartland and Nancy Drew, but neglects to mention her later reading of Spinoza and the figures of the early, Dutch Enlightenment.
Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, and a few dozen others should be household names. It is they, not the tariq-ramadans, who should be treated with respect, heeded, given every support.
Eteraz
Using that criteria, Ghulam Nabi Qadiani - the founder of the Ahmadiyas - who is regarded as a prophet by his followers (ask Naseem) - is a legitimate prophet in Islam. Or the book of Bahatullah, which is regarded by Bahai as equivalent to the Quran, is therefore a legitimate Muslim holy book.
Give us another.
You know i have been wondering for some time now why is it we are not handing the bill for the war on terror to the saudis and the iranians not to mention all the fleas that have jumped off thier backs? The fleas being hamas,fatah,hezbola...etc.
How about if the families of all those killed and maimed by terrorists sue the tar out of these people? Like the ones suing the banks for paying the families of suicide bombers.
Why do we give protection to the very kingdom that breeds these idiots?
The whole shebang is thier baby.They sowed the seeds,they built the monsters and we protect THEM.
We should be bombing the hell out of Iran and hitting the house of saud along the way.Anything left over should be used to douse the palistinian 'cause'.
I am sorry,not to take away from these people they mean well but i fear too little to late.The time for talk was long ago.Look at the counter of JW,this goes back years and years.Decades.
The days for handing out lolipops and appeasments is long over.The jihadists swords are dulled from all the innocent neckbones they have hacked through and i will be damned if they get honed on the rocks upon which the nation of freedom stands.
Like i said i view all these people as heroes that stand up in the face of horrible death in speaking out against a defunct and stale ideal.In fact jihadists can take note of what true martyrdom is and what real heroes and lions look like and how they compose themselves.BRAVO BRAVO
If only true moderates realized there were true moderates.One can not tell me that they would rather live here in this country than any islamic ruled one.If in fact they do desire to live here far more than anywhere else under islamic rule then why not fight to do so.
This is how i mean muslims have not earned the right to live here they do not fight for the right to do so.None i have ever seen or heard.
let me say this to all moderates out there.islam have thier martyrdom memorials ,places for all to see thier heroes.All those who have died for the islamic plight and belief.We have ours too and all these things you enjoy here in this nation they paid for in thier blood,all of it.All of those who wish not for the iron fisted rule of islam that have died for nothing,the ones innocently stoned for being raped,the ones who just chose a different direction other than that programmed from birth,murdered.Ghosts wandering around.Where are thier memorials? Where will your memorial be? Just listen to these words " THE WOMAN THAT WAS RAPED,the victim, IS THEN MURDERED.Whats wrong with this sentence?
I have news for all of islam right now and in the past decades or longer islam the religion is and has been just a tool for political islam.You are just tools for the hiearchy agenda,you are as oil to them.In fact oil is probably more precious because it's not replenishable.
A huge mistake is being made on two fronts.One is the islamic world thinks we will be an easy mark the other is that our politicians think we view them with more love than we do for ourselves.there is not one single politician that speaks for me,not one,none have said anything i have been waiting to hear and if they think i will wait with them and stand in front of them to take the blows,well there are two entities sadly mistaken on both accounts.
Moderates rise up become monsters on your own account,i know i am.
and all that jazz.
Infidel Pride,
I no longer think it is worthwhile for us to labor at determining anything about Jihad: it's a redundant waste of our time. The requirement is simple: Muslims will have to limit Jihad to three places -- the heart, the mosque and the home -- and leave it out of all other spheres of existence. If they don't do this on their own, we Infidels will, sooner or later, have to compel them with physical force to do it, for our own safety and security. We collectively are not there yet, but it is likely that we will get there, and the Muslims, by their own uncontrollable lust for power and evil, will force us to get there. In the meantime, we will continue, at best, to indulge in pointlessly complex debates with clever, evil supporters of murderous supremacism like Eteraz.
"Ian Buruma in the Sunday Times of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in which he attempts to make much of her reading, as a young Muslim girl, of such trash --age-appropriate trash -- as Barbara Cartland and Nancy Drew"
Nancy Drew is infinitely superior to all of Islamic culture combined.
I get tired of hearing the moderate muslim, it's like saying, a moderate murderer. If the people were in that much fear for their lives, they would've united and conquered the mess along time ago. There's not going to be anymore hoodwinking over the West anymore, so don't forget it; we certainly won't.
I read your essay, and in addition to the items you have for Muslims to follow, I have one more: chastity (as in stay unmarried and childless). This may sound brutal, but there's no telling that the descendants of these harmless Muslims will remain benign. There is one prominent harmless Muslim I can name, and that's India's president. In addition to not fasting during Ramadan, not observing the 5 pillars, not paying zakat, reading the Bhagvad Gita every morning et al, he is also single and childless. That means that after he has completed a venerable lifetime, he won't leave behind any potential Jihadis (in the way Moghul emperor Akbar was succeeded 2 generations later by Aurangzeb, who went on to reverse a policy of partial tolerance.)
My perfect Muslim!
Hugh, I think you are incorrect about a presidential candidate flying up the polls if they address the problem of islam. Most people don't believe it is a real threat. They think 9/11 was a freak thing that will probably never happen again. Even if they think the possibility is there, they just want to hide their head in the sand and keep watching cartoons.
Calling on "moderate" muslims to act will achieve nothing. They will only be killed by the true believers if they open their mouths or try to change the tenets of islam. They will be just one more corpse stacked upon the bloody Qur'an.
The true believers are the Ahmadinejad's, Khomeini's, bin Laden's, etc., they live for the battle, they believe in the battle and it is their call in life. You don't see any of them turning themselves to mist with an explosive belt, but they are waging the war anyway. These, along with the Imams are the true enemy. Those who do the homicidal acts of the jihadist are only the weapons in this war, they are not the true enemy.
The imams & clerics are the true enemy, the true believer, sitting on their exceedingly large duffs, feeding their faces in the mosque while fulfilling their physical lusts & desires for which they condemn others. They then send out those they have convinced with their lies that the only certain way to paradise is through martyrdom in the cause of allah.
No, the moderate muslim does not exist in reality. You are either a true believer, an infidel polytheist or apostate muslim. The truth of islam is on the nightly news and the faces of the victims. The blood of the innocents is upon the hands of mo as he sits in the fires of hades.
Jihad as "inner struggle" and Jihad as "outer struggle." For the first, we have a single Hadith, one judged less "authentic" and contained in one of the less authoritative collections. For Jihad as "outer struggle" we have about one hundred fifty verses in the Qur'an, hundreds of Hadith deemed "authentic," and the life of Muhammad as supporting evidence.
In the war between the innies and the outies among those engaged in this particular omphalomachy, neither side much given, alas, to navel-gazing of the old-fashioned Hesychasts, it's the outies who win.
dwyvan, feeling a little bitter toward God and the Church?
Yes, there were atrocities carried out during different times in our nation's history. Yes, there are things we have been and are ashamed of as a nation. Yes, there are things that could have been done better & differently. But to compare all those things you are trying to dig up over the course of 230+ years to today's jihad with islam only serves to make you look ridiculous.
If you have your own personal beef with God & the Church, that's your business. But you may want to open a book or two and study the foundational truths of this nation. The Declaration, the Constitution & Bill of Rights, all founded upon historically Christian beliefs. Our very laws are based on this foundation.
Jumping over to President Bush: I didn't realize it was his fault for the terrorists attacks and kidnappings of the seventies, eighties, nineties and 9/11. I'm glad you cleared that up. He must have been the dark room president all these years that was responsible for causing so much hatred of America by the muslim world. I'm sure everyone will be relieved to find you discovered this, it answers a lot of questions. Sound silly? It was meant to, like so much of your posting.
I don't know where dwyvan's post went.....
Ali Eteraz:
Tashbih Sayyed is a Muslim from Pakistan. He was raised as a Muslim, he has lived as a Muslim, he is still a Muslim. You can play your little game about how I don't really know the facts about Islam and Islamic teachings because I am not a Muslim with me, although it rings hollow to observers who actually do know the data, but it rings even hollower when you try it with Tashbih.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
DavidH --
I completely agree with you, as I have often thought that the "Moderate Muslim" is nothing more than a Myth.
Plus, the word "moderate" sounds so ambiguous, like they can't make up their mind and that they will remain on the fence.
dwyvan,
After reading your comments, it makes me wonder what kind of American history did your learn because America in truth did much more GOOD to the world despite the problems it had. To its CREDIT, America has ALWAYS been a self-correcting nation. It always rights its wrongs. This is part of the growth and development of this great country. There is much more GOOD that America has done that I do not have the time to list. While I thank you for your time in service to this country, as a person of Christian faith, which gives me peace of heart, there is a sense of a negivtive attitude in these comments. Despite the need to self-correct itself, America in IMHO is still a good country which has done the world as well as itself, much more GOOD.
Gone with the wind. (see Irene Dunne in "The Awful Truth")
Nancy Drew is infinitely superior to all of Islamic culture combined.
Posted by: remote_control
Absolutely. Nancy Drew would seem to be among the better reading choices for a young Muslim girl. She lived at home with her father, as did both of her friends. None of the things Muslims decry in American culture figured prominently in any of her stories.
I guess she's trash because she's not a Muslim.
America is the most tolerant country, but it is being abused on all levels. We cannot remain silent while calls for destruction of the West echo around the world. . . . It is not what we CAN do, but what we MUST do, to protect the United States. Our children and grandchildren are entitled to the same freedom we enjoy. We must abondon political correctness, which prevents us from speaking the truth. . . We must be united, strong and courageous. Americans are good people, and find it difficult to believe in evil. . . . Are the "moderate" Muslims afraid to speak, or are they sitting in silent support of the Islamists? . . . Wake up, America, before it is too late."
Nonie Darwish is now one of my modern-day heroes, along side Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Her question should be cut into the sidewalk in front of every American mosque:
Are the "moderate" Muslims afraid to speak, or are they sitting in silent support of the Islamists?
Until this question is answered, the continued presence of Muslims in American society must remain in doubt. Make no mistake, all of these developments are wonderful things. But they are wonderful things that are at least five, if not almost thirty years late.
My personal rage at Islam's predation upon American society and the West in general does not permit me much of a glowing feeling about all this. Splendid as it all is, the people involved probably represent less than one percent OF one percent OF one percent of this world's Muslim population.
When those numbers shift by MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE, only then will I begin to feel that any substantive change has begun. Too demanding? I think not. Far too much currently stands at risk to suddenly drop our sense of healthy skepticism and justifiable criticisms about Islam. It is simply too dangerous to do so and none of this can possibly abate the peril that still exists.
Oops, it appears that the passage I quoted in my last post was delivered by Wafa Sultan. I shall have to add her to my list of people worthy of admiration.
The tragedy of this is Mr. Spencer is THEE ONLY source for this group of Muslims. This is at least a voice which can challenge the thugs of the mosques with intellectual absolutes and empower those in Islam who actually want schools for their children, healthcare and housing instead of bombs.
The rest of the media is doing a shameful non job of only covering a bomb a day in Baghdad and not a universe of light starting to shine in Islam academia.
Emerson, CAIR........why do they get the spotlight and not people speaking of living together.
"There is no shooting war here to bring everyone to his senses."
I beg to differ, Hugh. Salt Lake City, Seattle, North Carolina, San Francisco, Los Angeles; All of these are shots being fired in an Islamic jihad against America. These shots are not fired with enough frequency to startle America out of its slumber ... YET. When the tiger finally is jolted awake, Islam will wish it had never been born.
"You know i have been wondering for some time now why is it we are not handing the bill for the war on terror to the saudis and the iranians ..."
A d@mn fine question, Dal al-harb, and one that truly deserves an answer. On the eastern edge of Saudi Arabia is the Ghawar oiol field:
"The Ghawar Oil Field is by far the largest conventional oil field in the world and accounts for more than half of the cumulative oil production of Saudi Arabia."
(Link: www.gregcroft.com/ghawar.ivnu )
A tiny strip of land, easily separated from Saudi Arabia's grasp by minimal military intervention could supply American oil needs for decades. Certainly long enough for us to develop alternative energy technology. (Hat tip to .com of Rantburg)
Saudi Arabia is our enemy. They have always been our enemy and there is no indication that this status will ever change. Through their intentional dispersal of Wahabbist Islamofascism, the House of Saud bears direct responsibility for the 9-11 atrocity and many others as well. Bali, Madrid and London could all be added to the list with ease. The cumulative cost of those atrocities should be laid at the Saudi's door.
America's current crop of politicians are bought and sold by oil. They are so beholden to Saudi interests that such a notion would never cross their minds, let alone their desks. This needs to change, much like ownership of Ghawar may need to see a change. We should be dunning Iraq for the 750 BILLION DOLLARS spent liberating them and once we have finished crippling Iran's nuclear aspirations, they should be sent a bill as well.
America's nearly pristine track record of never holding land captured in battle should not cause us to forfeit the notion that we should be compensated for the aggression of others. Germany and Japan were both presented with bills after WWII. Nor should the necessary interventions that we have engaged in go without repayment. Altruism is a core component of Politically Correct thinking and, as such, represents an almost paralyzing toxin in resolving true responsibility for this world's ills.
YET. When the tiger finally is jolted awake, Islam will wish it had never been born.
Thanks Zenster
You made my night. No truer words were ever spoken. Remember what I said a few days ago about jihadwatchers being the f15's of the internet.
PS I am still being attatcked. My firewall still says someone is trying to get in.
Please see Slate's (Christopher Hitchens)article entitled "She's No Fundamentalist: What people get wrong about Ayaan Hirsi Ali" here.
While I applaud the attempt, I cannot help but draw analogies. Would I be so delighted, say, in 1938, with a person who called themselves a National Socialist and professed a fervent admiration of Hitler, yet said he did not believe in Hitler's hatred and plans for Jews?
If you follow a murderer, a rapist, an assassin and a thief as a prophet you've chosen to guide your life, then, quite frankly, there is something wrong with you. It's well past time to start repeating this. Mohammed was a thief, a serial rapist, a mass murdurer, a torturer and an extortionist. These behaviors were no less wrong in the 7th century than they are now. The fact that a billion people believe this criminal was a prophet doesn't make it any more right. Get it straight. The fact that Muslims, even nice sleek moderate nice-talking Muslims still believe this brutal monster was a prophet of God *means that there is something wrong with them.*
I'm tired of tossing candy to self-declared Muslims for emptily mouthing truisms that any civilized person knows without a doubt. Mohammed was a monster. What about that don't they understand?
Please guys - when you talk about Nancy Drew, you're just killing me.
Ahhhh....Password to Larkspur Lane.. Hannah Gruen...I'm 9 years old all over again and sneaking down early under the Christmas Tree and what do I see but 1/2 dozen new Nancy Drew myseries tied up in a ribbon...Sigh.
"if Jihad is an inner struggle, why did Mohammed exempt the physically disabled from acting on it?"
--Infidel Pride noting what Tashbih Sayyed noted.
Infidel Pride,
Thanks. I will note what you noted of what Tashbih Sayyed noted. (I was also wondering why inner jihad requires "equipment," "wealth," etc.)
Ali Eteraz,
I commend this group of ex-Muslims, progressive Muslim critics, and others, for producing this important event. Don't you commend them too?
I have a question:
What is your perspective on these verses?
98:6. "Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. 98:7. (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings."
Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, and a few dozen others should be household names. It is they, not the tariq-ramadans, who should be treated with respect, heeded, given every support.
Thank you, Hugh and Robert. Slowly, but surely, eyes and ears are opening.
Mr. Sayyed stubbornly believes that a rapist and a murderer is a prophet of God. Whatever usefulness he might have, with whatever residual humanity he has, is absolutely irrelevant.
I don't give a crap if a Klan member only burns crosses in the woods, I guess.
"Please guys - when you talk about Nancy Drew, you're just killing me."
Me too, Caroline. One of the most difficult to find editions in my +1,500 volume library of cookbooks is "Clues to Good Cooking" - The Nancy Drew Cookbook.
Its difficulty to find rates with "Clementine in the Kitchen" and "Joe the Wounded Tennis Player" in my collection.
(Link: http://www.nancydrewsleuth.com/cbfood.html )
To think that I gave a copy to one of my girlfriends!
One of these days I'll finally get a clue.
Nonie Darwish asked, "Where are the truth-seekers in Islam?" Islam's only response to opposition, she noted, is to become offended. Why do they have to kill apostates?
Why do they have to kill apostates??? come on woman it is written continually throughout the holy Muslims books... slaughter the infidel where ever you find them untill all the world is for Allah..
That is simple plain and easy to read, nothing can be taken out of context in words like this..
Mohammad said that a terrorised people are easier to conqure, and dodn't Mohammad say thatit is not fitting for a prophet to take slaves until he has made a great slaughter in the land..
And how can you call for freedom of conscience in religion, when Islam is full of intolerance, terrorise, slaughter, and kill those who will not believe, hey you would have to destroy three quarters of their holy books to bring about a hope like that...
She says ...In the 21st century, we need to reconsider the literal language of the Koran. We have changed a lot, and we must change the practice of Islam. We must educate our population from an early age to place value on life. We need to educate the very young. Teach love, not hate. We know for a fact that Saudi Arabia builds the majority of the mosques and provides the textbooks for education. These are full of hardcore Wahhabi propaganda, which teach children to hate Jews and Christians.
This makes me mad, how the hang can they educate their children against what is written in their holy books.. She says that it is Wahhabi propaganda, wellllll all I can say is either she doesnt know her own holy books or she is trying to decieve the non Muslims... and I think it is the latter. all the hardcore Wahhabi is doing it teaching what is written in the quran and others of their books, and what Mohammad himself did...
Zenster - I didn't know you were a girl! For some reason I assumed you were a guy! (But I mess this up all the time.)
I do wonder whether any of them - Sayyed, Shoebat, Sultan, Darwish, et al - have Quranic or Sunnah backing that demonstrates that Jihad isn't an inner struggle. Also, as a poster astutely noted here the other day, if Jihad is an inner struggle, why did Mohammed exempt the physically disabled from acting on it?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 5, 2007 06:32 PM
Infidel:
Tashbih Sayyed, the California based publish of Pakistan Today, who has, among other things, visited Israel and is a defender of its right to exist as a Jewish state, said that jihad was NOT an inner struggle:
"Islam does not distinguish between mosque and state. We speak of 'political Islam,' but there is no such thing as apolitical Islam. JIHAD IS NOT AN 'INNER STRUGGLE.' 'As a Muslim, I have not seen an artist or an author ever designated a mujahid.'"
As for Shoebat and Darwish in particular, both are proud apostates who have converted to Christianity and risk their lives on a daily basis by supporting Israel's right to exist and denouncing the tenets of the faith they were both born to.
Looks like Mr. Sayyed thinks the only way he can criticize Islam is by remaining in Islam. Looking at all the things he has said about jihad being central to Islam, he should figure it out by now. By remaining a Muslim, he still condones (unwittingly, since he is a big critic of jihad) the practice of waging war on all of humanity. Same thing as being a critic of Hitler and the Nazi movement but still remaining in the Nazi party. I know the Nazi connection has been used ad nauseum but it is very relevant. Hitler and Muhammed are very similar. And if he worries about becoming an atheist once he ditches Islam, keep in mind one of the SIS participants, Nonie Darwich, is not an atheist.
Jump now Mr. Sayyed. The gulf between Dar al Harb and Dar al Islam is widening.
"Zenster - I didn't know you were a girl!"
[takes a quick look in pants]
Uhhh ... I'm not. That would require some major, er ... alterations, which I'm not at all prepared to undertake.
Zenster - oops! I wasn't aware there were any guys who liked Nancy Drew. Then when you referred to my "girlfriends" I thought you meant the kind of girlfriends a girl has. I somehow overlooked the fact that guys have girlfriends too. Doh! So my initial impression that you come across like a guy (not sure how to explain that from someone's writings) was correct. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
No harm, no foul, Caroline. The Nancy Drew Cookbook is the furthest extent of my readings with respect to Miss Nancy. Obviously, I was more of a Hardy Boys kinda guy.
However, I'll freely confess to recently having finished the entire seven volumes of "Anne of Green Gables". It amused me no end how people at the book store would sneeringly direct me to the children's section to find copies of this superb series. Mark Twain compared Anne to the "immortal Alice" and further stated Montgomery's work to be:
Oh, if I could write but even a single verse that received such praise from America's Bard.I'll ask, how much of a children's book is a story that contains passages like:
"Not failure but low aim is criminal."
There IS a loophole Muslims can use to excise Islam's violent doctrines: and that is the fact that they cannnot check their sources.
Inasmuch as Islam's sources are at best apocryphal and at least unprovable Muslims do NOT really have to accept everything the Kuran teaches.
For example, since the Kuran's teachings can NOT be proved, Muslims do NOT know for a clear certainty that the people the Kuran teaches them to massaacre are actually "infidels." The only the way Muslims could know whether people are truly "infidels" is if they knew for a fact that the Kuran's teachings are factually correct. Since they do not (and can not know this), they have a right to say "no" to obeying this teaching--this teaching might well be wrong (and what would happen to their souls if it was wrong and they still obeyed it?).
And with this critical mindset, Muslims DO have a way out of the mold of mayhem they have been locked into for over 1300 years.
Not every Muslim will agree, certainly. But as more and more Muslims see a way out of Islam's blood-soaked traditional religious and warring paradigms the number of Muslims getting out is likely to go up. Peace and good-living are contagious.
And I suspect that this is what we are seeing in St. Petersburg and that is why I have stowed my general cynicism towards Islam in this case. I may not need it.