Sheikh Tantawi, who approves of suicide bombing, won't meet with the Pope because he quoted someone who said Muhammad brought nothing that wasn't "evil and inhuman." Since jihadists routinely justify suicide bombing by referring to Qur'an 9:111, which guarantees Paradise to those who "kill and are killed" for Allah, apparently Tantawi's idea of what is "evil and inhuman" is more nuanced than that of most people.
From ANSA, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
VATICAN CITY (ANSA) - The Islamic cleric and teacher who is the highest authority on Sunni Muslim theology pulled out of a scheduled meeting with Pope Benedict XVI on Thursday, reportedly because of pressure from fellow Muslims.The incident appeared to be further evidence that many Muslims around the world still feel deep anger over Benedict's controversial remarks on Islam in September last year.
In a lecture at Regensburg university in Germany, the pontiff cited a medieval emperor who said Islam was "evil and inhuman", sparking protests all over the Muslim world. He subsequently apologised several times and said he had meant no offence.
During a trip to Muslim Turkey last November, the pope made further efforts to smooth relations with Islam, making a historic visit to Istanbul's Blue Mosque. As part of moves to continue developing dialogue, Sheik Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, head of the Al Azhar university in Cairo, was supposed to meet the pope in the Vatican on Thursday morning....
Vatican sources confirmed later that the meeting had not taken place, saying that this was because of "the imam's commitments in Cairo". The sources were pessimistic about the chances of a new date being set soon for the meeting.
Meanwhile, in Cairo, sources at the Al Azhar university said the change of plan was due to pressure from Muslim 'Ulema' scholars in Egypt and also from the Muslim Brothers, the Arab world's largest group of political Islamists.
'OFFENSIVE OBSERVATIONS'.
This explanation appeared to be confirmed by the statements of Ahmad Mahmoud, professor of Sharia law at the Al-Azhar university.
"The offensive observations by Pope Benedict XVI against Islam make this visit not positive," he told the Gulf News agency, going on to rebuke Benedict for having "abolished" the Vatican department for inter-religious dialogue. In fact, Benedict merged it with the Pontifical Council for Culture in a bid to put a more cultural slant on dialogue.
According to Egyptian daily Al Akhbar, the invitation issued by the Vatican to Tantawi earlier this year aroused fresh anger in Islamic world still reeling from the Regensburg incident.
Another Egyptian daily, Al Osboe el Yom, said on Thursday that by accepting the invitation Tantawi seemed to have "forgotten the pope's insults" and was therefore "offending all Muslims".
Tantawi should be offended about the suicide bombings, not about the Pope.
"I have been very much heartened by the evil utterances of leading lights of the Muslim clergy in regard to the Pope's very indirect criticism of Islam. Orthodox Islam is a violent, oppressive creed and the more Muslims do to advertise that fact the better off we will be. Of particular interest is the fact that no recognized member of the Muslim clergy has made a public statement in opposition to the murderous and intolerant statements of their co-religionists. I look forward to the day that 70% or more of infidels polled indicate that they regard Islam and Muslims as a threat to their lives and liberty. This is politically incorrect and the mainstream media will continue to spin the "small minority of extremist" meme. Nevertheless, word is getting out."
http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_evil/
the pope only tells it like it really is.
It's interesting to note the grudging nature of the way many Muslims treat the Pope, even after he went to Turkay and faced Mecca in prayer. That points up the mental inflexibility of so many Muslims, in contrast to the emphasis on forgiveness and self-criticism in other faiths.
Mohammed was perfect, Islam is perfect, so it can never be wrong, and insults can never be forgiven. Now that's a perfect recipe for stagnation.
This is all backwards.
It is the Pope who should be refusing to meet with Tantawi, both because of his outrageous remarks on suicide bombing, and for his overlooked, or unknown (in the West), truly hideous 700-page compilation of antisemitic writings by Muslims. No one in the West should be meeting with the likes of the Sheikh Al-Azhar Tantawi.
There is an old comedic play on words, "I resemble those remarks." The reason muslims resent criticism so violently is because they do in fact resemble those remarks. Combine this with their sexual frustration, their inferiority complex and their cultural belief that all problems are solved by killing somebody and we have problems to...like 1 billion of them.
This stuff is prophetic and scary!!
The Pope has never apologized for his remarks. He has said he is, deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries, he also sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive. Regret, regret, no apology there, but the islamists want to rewrite history and give the illusion of an apology . I said he wound not apologize at the time and I have been closely following the Pope to see if I was right. I have great respect any man or woman who will say what they want to say and not apologize to anyone for it.
Well at least they won't have to repurify the Vatican after the scoundrals visit. He cancelled his visit probably due to the fact there was nothing new for him to speak of in islam and after he took a quick look around saw nothing but 'evil and inhuman' in it.
Not just to plainly and outrightly say the guy would be slaughtered in debate over his 'religion'.Trying to expect him to answer questions about islam will be like watching all the positions a yoga instructor goes through in a class.It could only end in one way....a death threat.
All i want is for islam to openly state what they desire....they have.
Now all i want are the real men of the free world to stand up and say i take offence with that.
Also to another poster ,islam is stagnant.It's as stagnant as water in an old tire and as full as as many vile things swimming in it as well.
Cair may just be getting one of thier 'come uppings' soon with this trial (the flying imams).I hope they and thier names get dragged through the mud.Nothing would please me more this day than a HUMILIATED and broken criminal organization.May the verdict lead to a very very thourough investigation into thier acts and deeds afterwards.
"Sheikh Tantawi, who approves of suicide bombing, won't meet with the Pope because he quoted someone who said Muhammad brought nothing that wasn't "evil and inhuman."
Is Islam evil and inhuman? If it is, we should say so. We're not doing ourselves or Muslims any favors by pretending it's not.
Just because Muslims are offended by the truth doesn't mean we shouldn't tell the truth.
We in the West have become enablers. we keep telling Muslims Islam is a respectable religion, and they believe it.
We should be telling them Islam is criminal, and list the crimes committed by Muslims as evidence. Period.
Interesting “coincidences” (or numerology); Koran: 9.111
Pentagon groundbreaking ceremony: 9-11-(194)1
Pentagon attacked: 9-11-(200)1
Thank you again for a most amusing posting as I laughed when I read Muslim "scholars" objected to the chief meeting the Pope.
Scholars is now what they are calling murderers and terrorists.
In that case, Charlie Manson is a scholar and it proves Pope Ben was right on in drawing the line in the sand and exposing these thugs for what they are.
The most elite guy in Sunni Islam and he is the one who is swayed over violent intent and not capable of leading Muslims.
One has never seen the Pope nor any Christian leader intimidated like this by members.
I am not a catholic and i don't go to church regularly, but this muslim cleric does'nt make a mud stain on the POPE's shoes. I wonder what the POPE saw when he looked into the eyes of the first muslim he met!!!!!!
That's quite the snub!!!! Giving the Pope the finger is huge news. Can you really slap a World Figure like the Pope in the face like that and expect it to be seen as a peaceful gesture.
Ineedajob not coming to the UN...
An Act of War by the Iranians
AN assassination attempt on a leading Iraqi Sunni Government=nt Official.
A Mortar Attack on a visiting UN President and the Iraqi president. A near miss at that.
Congress Votes to RUN AWAY???
The new Palestinian Government tells Israel to F@#$ off. we still want to kill you.
Russia is Getting out of Dodge, but not before passing a few weapons along...
The UN about to slap their little pinkie because Iran wants/has a Nuke.
The Dogs are climbing out of their Somalian holes
Iran trying to figure out where Pakistan wants to be.
A "Big Spring Offencive" in Afghanistan.
I think someone is trying to tell us something.
But the MSM is sure to let us know that the Pope deserved to be slapped. He's White, has Morals, Principles, and Faith. With just the right hint of Bravery to speak to Truth.. Why would any sane person want those qualities?
Pismopal,
If I remember right it was Curly of the Three Stooges who used to yelp:"Hey, I resemble that!"
Tantawi is less intelligent, and not as funny.
It's just as well the meeting did not take place. A true dialog, such as that proposed by the Pope with leading imams, presumes that a basis exists for finding common ground. How can there be even a square inch of common ground with the adherents of islam, who believe that whatever advances the cause of islam is good, and whatever thwarts it is bad? I'm afraid that the only thing a dialog would accomplish is to raise expectations here in the West that muslims can be reasoned with.
what is a religious idealogy, catholicism, doing meeting a diametrically opposing "religion" known as islam? for understanding? for co-operation? both religions leave no room for worshipping no other religions so why are they meeting?
example, after the london massacres the christian leaders, islamic leaders and jewish leaders came together to denounce terrorism and to encourage more failed multiculturalism. why?
o/t re:Thailand
http://www.steynonline.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&pop=1&pageTHAIS UNDONE
HAPPY WARRIOR
from National Review
If you read the paper, you’ll notice that there are a handful of places that attract the attention of everybody who matters – the UN, EU, IAEA, NGOs, the full alphabet soup. You’ll further notice that, for the fellows pressing ahead with Iran’s nuclear program or mopping up the few remaining opportunities for mass murder in Darfur, attracting the attention of the planet’s A-listers seems to make not a jot of difference. The bigshot acronyms hold meetings, and the crises they’re holding the meetings over trundle along pretty much on schedule.
What then of those problems that don’t even catch the jet set’s eye? It was about three years ago that I began following events in southern Thailand – the old Sultanate of Pattani, to us Mad Dogs and Englishmen. It was the numbers at first: Muslim “insurgents” were murdering over a hundred people a month, which seemed rather on the high side. Then I started looking for the bloody details behind the statistics: the two Laotian-immigrant farm workers beheaded for …well, for what? The Thai government isn’t occupying Palestine or invading Iraq or stationing troops in Saudi Arabia. And for a while I took to citing the country’s southern provinces as a bit of list filler to demonstrate the splendidly ecumenical nature of the jihad: Muslims vs Jews in the West Bank, Muslims vs Christians in Nigeria, Muslims vs Hindus in Kashmir, Muslims vs Buddhists in Thailand.
Aside from bringing up the rear in my planetary generalizations, what’s going on? The International Herald Tribune, in a brief story on the daily barrage of bombings and beheadings, decided it made no sense:
The insurgency is all the more difficult to combat because it does not show its face. Unlike similar movements around the world, this one has not set out its demands or published a manifesto. It is a collection of violent groups without an identifiable central leadership.
more at the link
=0
from above link
"To modify the Palestinian peace-process cliches, these “collections of violent groups” are in favor of a no-state solution. In Thailand, they target the lowest officials of the kingdom – schoolteachers, policemen and municipal functionaries. The object is to emphasize that not only can these people not protect you but that associating with them is likely to endanger you, too. If the state reacts with a bloody crackdown on Muslims, that’s good news for the insurgents. If the state instead dithers uncertainly, that works, too. The Buddhist villages in the south are emptying out, week by week, remorselessly."
What does it say about the ideology of Islam that its adherents can be incited to violence by having the certifiable truth told about it.
OT but new development:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/24/blogging-off-to-hatred/#comment-2956
Quisling knows Best: IT’S US! We are “Blogging Off to Hatred”
The latest from Cairns’ very own expert on Islam: Gavin King
Read it all.
Why would any pope ever agree to meeting with a murdering appologist imman in the first place. does the Pope know that this imman would reject his invitation? one will always question his motives.
Re: "The offensive observations by Pope Benedict XVI against Islam make this visit not positive,"
"Indignation is the soul's defense against the wound of doubt about its own; it reorders the cosmos to support the justice of its cause. It justifies putting Socrates to death. Recognizing indignation for what it is constitutes knowledge of the soul, and is thus an experience more philosophic than the study of mathematics."
- Allan Bloom "The Closing of The American Mind"-page 71
It is so true. Often being "offended" is all that's left to the believer. They have nothing else, no reason, no arguments, only anger at being "offended".
The Pope's wretched performance in Asia Minor reminds me of a scene in a prison movie where the new guy lets slip a comment of resistance in front of the Big Guy.
Everybody in the cell block stops. Big Guy walks up to the new guys and sez, "So, you're a smart guy, huh."
The new guy cowers, and falls silent for the next 20 years.
May I introduce you to the new guy, Pope Benedict XVI?
So what could the Moslems be ever be complaining about? B16's visit couldn't possibly have played out better for the Islamic cause.
This is all backwards.
It is the Pope who should be refusing to meet with Tantawi, both because of his outrageous remarks on suicide bombing, and for his overlooked, or unknown (in the West), truly hideous 700-page compilation of antisemitic writings by Muslims. No one in the West should be meeting with the likes of the Sheikh Al-Azhar Tantawi.
Posted by: Hugh
Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I even thought it would be much more productive if the Pope met with someone of the Spencer/Fotzgerald variety.
And then I saw Hugh's post and it all fell in place.
THEY are offended by words. WE are offended by their MISDEEDS.
In fact the words of the Pope were "harmlessly objective" whilst the MISDEEDS of the moslems since then have resluted in deathes by the thousands and oppression of untold millions.
The cult of pieces® - hard at work to cut heads.
What happened to Ken Lydell, anyway? He hasn't updated his blog in over 6 months.
Speaking of jihad.. Only a moslem would call war "holy".
This poor medieval scholar is still being misquoted. You'll probably be misquoted by Islamists centuries from now, Robert. What he said was that Muhammad brought nothing NEW that wasn't evil and inhuman. That is, strip out all the stuff he cribbed (half the time getting it wrong or MAKING it evil and inhuman) from Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Arab Paganism and Zoroastrianism, and look at what he's actually brought that wasn't there already, and ... it seems he's STILL quite an innovator...!
Yes, Mohammed brought us some good stuff too, just like the Arabs/Muslims eventually brought us "zero" -- after stealing it (or, more precisely, stealing the credit for it) from the Hindus.
"... the invitation issued by the Vatican to Tantawi earlier this year aroused fresh anger in Islamic world still reeling from the Regensburg incident."
The REAL incident (or incidents) were the subsequent murders of several innocent Christians by blood-thirsty Muslim thugs.
The REAL anger (of the western world pushed too far) has yet to be felt by these vile creatures.
Evil exposed to the truth , to the light with the same result as always...like the ending of every hackneyed vampire movie ever made...squealing , a decaying filthy old nosferatu imam from the cult
of evil dies.
Islam brought "evil" and "inhuman" treatment? What about the fact "Islam brings here and now, rape and murder and pillage justified by invoking the memory of a homicidal maniac who by any measure of civilization should have been under lock and key or executed for violating God and man made law! The Pope is obligated to distinguish between good and evil!
"The offensive observations by Pope Benedict XVI against Islam make this visit not positive,"
Well,geez... sorry that the Pope doesn't see rape and murder in the same light as the top Muslim Theologian. (Sarcasm off)
The Pope's wretched performance in Asia Minor...
As compared to what???? Your stellar performance under a psuedo-name posting on this website????
It gets tiring reading all of the anti-Pope material being posted, highlighted by this thread. It often raises my fears that many of you not only oppose islam, but religion in general and especially Catholicism.
The fake uproar after General Pace's comments regarding homosexuality are a prime example. More indications of the creeping Christian persecution in the public domain along side the usual embracing of anything anti-Christian, even if its islam...
jewdog
Now I remember where I heard that! nyuk nyuk...
adobe
Some people here forget that the Pope is not a politician groveling for money and votes. The Holy Father speaks for millions of Catholic Christians as the Vicar of Christ and some of them are behind enemy lines..so to speak. The Pope is responsible for his flock and no matter what he says someone is not going to like it. Thanks
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".
The pope went on to described the emperor, explaining in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable.
Now why should Muslims be upset at any of this? Because it exposes the dark truth about Islam's will to violent conquest. Muslim armies brutally conquered Constantinople a few years later in presumed service to Allah's will. Now the Muslim's don't have to wage a war of violent conquest. The naive West just lets them and their high birth rate in while assuring their sappy selves that it’s okay because most Muslims are moderates.
The fact that the Islamic world is "still reeling from the Regensburg incident," shows how weak Islam really is when faced with the truth. If Muslims can cow westerners into silence, if they can keep us from speaking the truth about their violent religion, then they will win this war of ideas. But if we speak the truth, they will lose and they know it.
They don´t want to dialogue with the Pope, well, better. I think that islam is each time closing and closing the doors, they believe that they are more pure but in reality they are losing their strength.
And Benedict XVI, I hope God gives him many years.
Well, ... we've all got our priorities.
So I suppose that this "high authority", this paragon of mohammedan scholarship, this pre-eminent representative of mohammedan culture, had some more important priorities than getting a conversation going with the Pope as soon as possible.
It's always priorities with these guys.
The most casual observation of their actions and utterances, the lightest analysis of their pronouncements consistently reveals that their main priorities are not:
* The preservation and promotion of freedom
* The protection of human rights
* The general welfare and well being of humanity
Other things are always more pressing and important. Like for instance:
* Making sure that outsiders think well of mohammedanism.
* Making sure that outsiders speak well of mohammedanism.
* Promoting the idea that the atrocities boldly carried out in the name of Islam really have nothing to do with Islam. (?!?!?!?!)
It's always priorities.
And their dialogue is an extended excercise of the Yes-But method, of which they are masters.
Yes I'd like to meet with the Pope, But I've got this schedule conflict you see...
Yes terrorism is a terrible thing, But wasn't it terrorism to bomb Iraq?
Yes this-or-that murder was done in the name of allah, But that has nothing to do with allah.
Denial followed by evasion. In pursuit of their true priorities, which of course are their real values -- the mohammedan dominance over the world and all that that entails.