I recently received an email alerting me to this site, where I read this:
Ex-Muslims have a bad rep. In Muslim circles, those ad hominems fly thick and fast when even mere mention is made of their existence. For example, there are numerous "progressive" Muslim blogs that, while having achieved much respect across the blogosphere, happily take up this more regressive attitude when discussing former Muslims. Alas, many conspiratorial Muslims generally demonise their "fallen" brothers and sisters both in public and in private, as if they were secret agents constantly scheming and plotting away, with each and every one briefed and sent by the devil himself.But ex-Muslims are people. And most of them are very good, caring people. Many of them have families and friends who remain Muslims, but, of course, still care just as much about them, if not more. And one big reason for ex-Muslims' even deeper empathy with their Muslim families and friends is being worried about what manner of dark alleys the faith will lead them to. Many things can be said about ex-Muslims but at the end of the day, while they may have enduring disputes with central aspects of Islam itself, they are as pro-Muslim as one can get.
This blog will hold regular blog roundups of current thoughts from ex-Muslims, especially with regard to how they have come to view their former faith, and will be an enjoyable survey of the chatterings of the ex-Muslim blogosphere.
Thanks for letting me know, and long may you wave. Ex-Muslims are routinely vilified and dismissed by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. This is a mistake on many levels. It is often ex-Muslims who are willing to speak up most forthrightly about the elements of Islam that need reform. And their very existence, living under a death threat every day of their lives, is testimony to the need for that reform, particularly in regard to Muhammad's command to kill those who leave Islam. Reform-minded Muslims should stand with them as an element of defending the freedom of conscience, instead of slinging ad hominem attacks and leaving it at that.
Hugh once pointed out that an ex-Muslim is considered like a deserter in the armed forces in time of war in Islam. Under such circumstances the deserter, by abandoning his/her post, deserves to be executed.
The belief-system is essentially about a war to dominate. History is a long record of the use of such rationalizations to conquer, subdue and exterminate some lately "indigenous people", but Islam is probably the most effective rationalization for such exploitation and domination in history. It makes all of that "a work of God".
Linking that site is a good way to support it. I did.
As Hooper, Yvonne Ridley, Adam Gadahn, John Walker Lindh et al, the Western coverts to Islam, represent various types of mental disarray, the apostates from Islam (not to be confused with the Apostles of Cambridge) represent the sanest, most humorful, interesting people who were born into Islam and mentally fought their way -- or in the Western world, if their parents had exhibited less-than-fervent belief, possibly skirmished their way -- out of the Total Regulation of Life, the Complete Explanation of the Universe, the entire cramped existence -- what art, what science is possible for someone who remains a True Muslim -- inflicted on them, and their ancestors, those Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, who at some point in that distant past were forced, or in order to no longer have to endure the unendurable on their own decided, to convert, to Islam, possibly the most powerful retrograde force, as Churchill once described it, stifling so much human potential and bringing so much unnecessary woe, in the history of humanity.
Perhaps they arelike those Cambridge Apostles after all.
Interesting new website,thanks for bringing it to my attention.While we're on the topic of Muslim's that speak out...take a listen to Wafa Sultan giving the Mufti looking dude a good tongue-lashing.It really is priceless for any who may have missed this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0
Clarification-if I mess up the link above please note URL details as follows...
...v=2wPgl(lowercase"L")HZQf-0(number zero)
Anyone who leaves that cult of death has plenty of guts. Doing so puts a permanent contract on your life. These are brave people-a marked contrast to those mental defectives who actually convert to this band of totalitarian maniacs.
With all due respect, I don't believe that the "secular Muslims" who are trying to reform Islam within Islam are going to succeed. It's like a member of the Klu Klux Klan deciding that he really likes black people, and is going to stay inside the Klan to change the minds of others. It's like a Nazi deciding that Jews aren't that bad after all and saying he is going to remain a Nazi but try to change the viewpoint of his fellow Naxis. It's like a Mormon declaring that he doesn't really believe all that stuff about Joseph Smith and the golden tablets, but he wants to still remain a Mormon. It's just not going to work.
I'm also concerned that "secular Muslims" will still hold deep animosity against those such as Nonie Darwish and Mark Gabriel who now declare themselves to be followers of Jesus. The world is no friend to grace, and old attitudes die hard.
ed
Yeah, you have a point. Most of the people at the Secular Islam Summit were atheists. Ibn Warraq has dismissed all religions altogether. So have people like Ali Sina and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I don't know if they are hostile to fellow apostates who converted to Christianity but they shouldn't be.
Ali Sina is definitely not opposed to fellow apostates who've converted to Christianity: if anything, he's taken their side against Left Wing Athiests who, in their campaign against religion, have unwittingly taken the side of Muslims. Ali Sina more fits the category of an Agnostic - don't know and don't care - rather than a self declared Athiest.
While on the subject of apostates, the writer of the above mail to Robert should join hands with the guys at faithfreedom.com and islam-watch.org, rather than re-spinning the wheel or creating another splinter group.
An ex Muslim is allot like a child of aborticide, ripped from the womb of Islam they are supposed to die a fast death and tossed into the garbage followed by incinerated in hell.
I have read that Muslims are converting in great numbers in Europe, but are hiding behind the ministers in fear of being aborted from life by other Muslim thugs.
The more voices for good will prevail.
Among those Muslims who have left Islam, I am sure there are a whole variety of opinions--not all are running into the arms of Jesus. I could see more becoming some type of agnostic. Actually, I think one has to have either a really open mind or a really terrific rebellious side as an apostate Muslim to venture into Christianity or moreso into Judaism. Robert, have you ever heard of any Muslims that have become Jews? BTW--unfortunately Zoroastrians do not accept converts, but I bet you there would be quite a number of Iranians who would eagerly become Zoroastrians because of pride in their Persian heritage.
Brooklyn
In India, Parsis don't take converts, but that's not true about Zoroastrians in Iran. Besides, given that there were just a few thousand Zoroastrians in Iran to start with, if a whole bunch of Persians tried becoming Zoroastrians, the original Zoroastrians would be powerless to stop it (unless they wanted to contrive with the Mullahs to keep their own numbers down, which is unlikely). In Iran, I hear about Persians who are secretly converting to Zoroastrianism, since apostasy carries a death sentence.
I don't know about Muslims who've become Jews. It would be interesting to see how many Muslim apostates have, aside from Athiesm and Christianity, embraced other religions. Even though I'm quite agnostic myself, I look at Agnosticism (in a Muslim context) as a state of unstable equilibrium, since nothing stops the offspring of a Muslim agnostic from becoming a devout Muslim. OTOH, a Muslim who switches to another religion altogether knows what (s)he's left, and is unlikely to let his/her offspring walk into the same gulag.
I think any Muslim who sees through Islam is much likelier to become an agnostic or atheist than to join any other religion. After experiencing their own brand of religion, how are they going to believe that any other religion is anything except a system of oppression? However, I do know of a few who do convert to Christianity; a French online magazine, the Journel Chretien, has published a rumour of an Iranian Mullah, no less, who has fled to the West, dropping a well-paid post in his native country, after being converted by a Christian Farsi broadcaster. It is certain that a number of immigrants to Western countries convert to Christianity. Brooklyn Dave and Infidel Pride: there is a bunch of Zoroastrian in America who accept converts - of course the Parsis of India and various other parts do not like them in the least, but they might be a gateway for Iranians into Zoroastrianism, especially since America is full of Iranian refugees.
Paolo
There are some leading apostates who converted to Christianity, such as Walid Shoebat and Nonie Darwish. Others, like Warraq and Hirsi Ali are Athiests, while the late Anwar Shaikh converted to Hinduism. Ali Sina, OTOH, is a prominent Agnostic.
At one level, what religion somebody follows is none of our business, and their privacy should be respected. However, at another level, for those who haven't switched to a different faith (as opposed to Atheism or Agnosticism), I do worry about their offspring Islamizing. It's likelier for one who's either Atheist or Agnostic to switch to a religion, than for a practicing member of one faith to switch over to another.
You guys can't fathom the nature of the threats and the nagging ways of Islam. Some converts from Islam, like my wife, have their families living in their countries of origin. There are two main problems:
1-The government harrasses the family. "You may be out and safe, but we have your family here."
2-Family and friends think apostasy is a foolish act or a bad choice, and even after eighteen years, they expect the stray one to come back to the islamic fold anytime.
I better stop here...
The bottom line is that in slamic societies there is a total lack of respect for individual choice and personal freedoms.
Pope Benedict: A GOD/ALLAH OF REASON or AN IRRATIONAL GOD/ALLAH
There is a disaster that awaits the worlds nations if religious extremism is not defeated. The fact that people believe that they will go to Heaven as a reward for mass murder is truely frightening. Its just a matter of time before one of these religious fanatics straps a nucleur weapon on their back and blows up an entire city.
Moderate Muslims are engaged with the fundamentalists in a life and death struggle for the heart and soul of Islam. We need to form an alliance with moderate Muslims in order to aid them in their historical struggle I suggest that the Pope call for a meeting of all world religions to create a - DECLARATION OF UNIVERSAL RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.
Following is a suggested format for a meeting in Rome of all the worlds religious leaders to prepare this Universal Declaration be read in every Church, Mosque and Synagogue throughout the world.
Perhaps in an article you could call for such an historcial meeting
Sincerely,
Larry Houle
A GOD OF REASON AND ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM
One of the greatest tenets of democracy is that a superior argument will win the day. Right now, this doctrine is being turned on its head by the Islamic Fundamentalists.
These Fundamentalists have taken Islam and turned its teachings into a murderous medieval ideology – that the killing of infidels in the name of Allah will be rewarded in heaven - allowing the Islamists to sexually molest for all eternality 72 virgins, in 72 mansions, and 72 beds – that the murder of millions of non - believers is a religious duty, women are inferior to men - their virtual slaves to be denied education, beaten, killed for adultery or other sexual transgressions (real or imaged), covered from head to toe, people can be mutilated and tortured, barbers giving hair cuts can be killed, music and movies banned, women practicing folk dancing murdered, schools teaching young girls blown up, anyone who believes in a different interpretation of Islam to be killed and on and on. Muslims have paid a terrible price at the hands of these Fundamentalists. Children mutilated. Grand parents brains blown all over the street. Women, children, old and young. Over one hundred and fifty thousand Muslims have been slaughtered in the most horrid, unimaginable ways since 9/11.
We need to form an immediate alliance with moderate Muslims to turn the intellectual tide.
The Pope in his recent speech on God and Reason has shown the way forward. A very important event occurred recently when 36 Islamic Scholars sent the Pope a communication in which they agreed – that in Islam, Allah is – “A GOD OF REASON.” This important declaration - perhaps one of the most important by a group of such eminent Islamic scholars must be seized upon. The Pope should call for a world religious conference on the scale of Vatican 2 bringing together all the top religious leaders and scholars from EVERY world religion to draft a Universal Declaration of Religious Principles. This Declaration will form the basis of an historic alliance between Christianity and Islam to turn the murderous fundamentalist tide before it is too late. Before a nuclear weapon is exploded in the Name of Allah in a Western City killing millions.
Following would be the format of this Universal Religious Declaration.
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS
There is only one God
God is God
God is a God of Reason.
God is not an irrational being. If God is irrational then God is not God.
Ordinary people on the street understand the words – “reason” and ‘irrational”. Any such declaration must be kept simple - not an intellectual rambling on of the Philosophy of Reason. (For a very important article on the Philosophy of Reason and Pope Benedicts controversial speech I draw your attention to article – “Socrates or Muhammad? Joseph Ratzinger on the destiny of reason” by Lee Harris.)
God Being a God of Reason Therefore:
All violence in the Name of God/Allah is the GREATEST evil anyone can commit. Suicide is an evil act in every religion. Suicide bombers killing themselves and others in the Name of God/Allah – this is the Supreme evil act. The second most evil act is killing, maiming, and torturing others to the Greater Glory of God/Allah. The concept of Jihad as religious holy war must be condemned. All references to violence in any holy book/text is not the word of God but the word of man. No God who is God would ever instruct anyone to commit acts of violence against any other human being. Violence in religion must be totally and completely renounced – WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION. There is no heaven for these murderers. No mansions. No virgins. Just the black hole of eternal damnation. You cannot climb to heaven on the corpses of the murdered. If God /Allah believes in violence then God/Allah is irrational and therefore God/Allah is not God/Allah.
God Being A God of Reason Therefore:
Women and men are equal in the eyes of God. Women are the equal of men. God did not create women to be the chattel or slaves of men. Females have full rights in society before the law, under the rule of law, can dress any way they freely desire without fear of death, walk the streets without a male relative escort, do any occupation, receive all educational rights, drive planes, trains, automobiles, fly to the stars, choose their husbands etc. These equal rights of women in society are very important. Their exercise without fear of violence - without the fear of being victims of Honor Killings must be declared WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION in any such declaration. If God/Allah is a sexist then God/Allah is irrational and therefore God/Allah is not God/Allah.
God Being A God of Reason Therefore:
There are many ways to God/Allah. Each individual has the total and complete right to find his/her own way to God/Allah or not. Religious freedom is the right of all mankind. The right to build churches, mosques etc. To practice ones religious beliefs non – violently is a corner stone of all civilized societies. The right to change ones religion without fear of death. Only an irrational God/Allah would order people put to death for not believing in religion or deciding to change ones beliefs from one religion to another religion. It is an unimpeachable right.
God Being A God Of Reason Therefore:
All human beings are created equal. All races are created equal. God/Allah does not wish that any human being be a slave. No one person is the lesser of the other. To use religion to spread hate against other races, religions in places of worship, employing television or any other medium, teaching hatred to the young in schools – this is evil incarnate. If God/Allah is a racist then God/Allah is irrational and therefore God/Allah is not God/Allah.
God Being A God Of Reason Therefore
God/Allah blessed man with an intelligence to reason, to explore, to seek the truth of any question – total freedom of thought. To think and reason without fear of jail/death. It is against the will of God/Allah to threaten anyone with death, torture or prison for freely exercising his God/Allah given brain. The human brain is the greatest gift God/Allah has ever bestowed on man. It was given to mankind to purse - the arts, literature, sciences, intellectual pursuits. Its free exercise is the will of God/Allah. Declared WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION. If God/Allah is anti intellectual then God/Allah is irrational and therefore God/Allah is not God/Allah.
God Being A God Of Reason Therefore
All mankind has the right to freedom and democracy, equality before the law, freedom of action, freedom of thought, right to elect their leaders. God /Allah does not want dictators and tyrants to rule over other men. NO EQUIVOCATION. If God/Allah does not believe in the right of mankind to Freedom and Democracy then God/Allah is irrational and therefore God/Allah is not God/Allah.
Pope Benedict has opened the way to a great reconciliation of the world religions. A Grand Conference issuing this Universal Declaration of Religious Rights and Freedoms to be read in every Church, Synagogue, Mosque would be the start of an alliance between faiths against ALL religious extremists. A turning point in the struggle for the minds of young people especially young Muslims who are being constantly bombarded by a religious evil ideology.
Sincerely,
Larry Houle
24602 Timberland Path Dr.
Spring, Texas
239 – 935 – 5495
intermedusa@yahoo.com