You may come to the moment when...

"You may have to fight when there is not hope of victory at all, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

...something the anti-war crowd and the dhimmicrats and dhimmis of the world will come to know...maybe...

Very good quote.

That's what these left idiots don't understand. Freedom isn't something we fought for once and that we can keep forever.

Assalamau Laikum all,

I constantly see the postees here talk about Islam ...wanting to form a Caliphate...a backward, 7th centuary, society....(the beast from the East you say).

Opposingly, there are the comments from people like Foehammer (who is getting old in the tooth)that you have the capaicty to nuke without rataliation...which you do ...at the moment.

You say you have the confidence,capacity, willpower and resources to easily win against Islam....that's what you peoples never fail to remind me.

However this type of thread kinda throws a wobbly into your confidence doesn't it. Hugh, Exsgtbrown and the Texican (to name but a few) start to talk about fear, and survival of the West...but surely...being so technologicially advanced as to step on Allah's moon...why do you fear Islam so.

What are the drivers of your fear....why should you have to resort spread the disease of fear and intimidation when addressing Islam....which by most accounts ...over 99% of it's followers...muslims are peaceful...surely there is nothing to fear...your strong army can deal with these "small timers"...can't they?

Even Einstein based his predictions on statictics...which in this case is that over 99% are peaceful muslims.

You have nothing to fear in your homes and countries.....deal with rhetoric...that's all.

We want to ne your Pals....if you let us...let Allah SWT be the broker here!

"You have nothing to fear in your homes and countries.....deal with rhetoric...that's all.".

....That is what was told to all the Christians, Jews, and other non Muslim peoples that formerly existed in Muslim lands....

...history shows what happened to these people who refused to fight....

Ban Muslim Immigration..and Instill a mandoratory birth control for Muslim Women of two before mandatory sterilization....

Samuel Huntington writes in his bestseller The Clash of Civilizations that the future of the west ( as a civilization ) depends on the will and the ability of that collection of nations to see itself and its institutions as distinct from the other civilzations and that it realizes it must defend and protect the things that make it 'western'.

The serious internal obstacles are a) unwillingness to keep west-hating 'multicultural' forces at the margin b) transferring or 'giving away' the products other civilizations need to bolster military force and production capacity and c) unimpeded immigration of persons not willing to leave previous civilizations behind.

If you haven't read The Clash of Civilizations please consider doing so. Prof. Huntington has a good perspective on Islamic civ. vs. the rest of the world. He doesn't try to gloss the problems - even saying the problem is Islam itself. Islam is the problem the west civ. has faced historically and Huntington calls out ex-Pres. Clinton among others for maintaining the whole 'tiny minority of extremists' and 'peaceful Islam' gambit. He states directly that Islam has always been a threat to the West and this won't change.

Another great line of thought from his book is the whole Sino-Islamo cooperation bloc and the serious damage this will do to the western agenda.

I do have some issue with the writings, most of all the 'rational actors game theory' type approach that is to Clauswitzian and leaves out the increasing influence of non-state actors in the world ( terrorism, globalism, EU, multi-national corporations, drug networks, narco-terrorism and multi-national organized criminal enterprises). These are gaining in effect but are missing from his work.

All in all The Clash of Civilizations would be a good addition to your reading list if you haven't checked it out already.

Outlaw Islam in America! I would trust Muslim reformers as far as I could throw them.

"Invade all Muslim countries, overthrow the governments, and convert to Christianity!" - Ann Coulter.

I second.

We almost lost Western Civilization in WWII, it will not happen again. What do these bearded trolls in the dirty undershirts take us for? Fools!

Read Churchill - all of his writings about WWII - and then reread.

Many at this site are familiar with Churchill's comment about the menace of Islam to Western Christendom, and the fanaticism of Muslims (whom he called "Mohammedans" -- a term that, given the centrality of Muhammad to Islam, as uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil -- is hardly unfair or even, as some suggest, misleading).

It is a comment that deserves to be printed out, and placed on refrigerators everywhere, but especially on refrigerators in Georgetown, and McLean, Virgina, and Silver Spring, Maryland -- and of course at Camp David and at the White House and in those office refrigerators that Congressmen may keep.

Here is that quote, suitable for Infidel refrigerators everywhere:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

I am honored to even be mentioned by a Muslim....and on the same line with Hugh and the Texican....

.....I read a lot, study a lot, inquire a lot and I learn a lot....

.....I am becoming more savvy about seeing through the smokescreen that appears every time a Muslim Speaks....

To all who post here, Thank you for my continuing education....

...Now where is my trophy....

I don't believe this quote originates with Rivers of Africa (did the originator mean The River War (1899)?). I have seen it attributed to The Gathering Storm (1948), although that source was Andrew Sullivan...:p.

We in the west need to come to grips with what faces us and claim the right of self defense that any individual can claim. We are living in a time of a clash between civilization and barbarism--the barbarism of Islamic totalitarianism that seeks to impose Sharia law and all the "liberties" associated with it. We as a people need to summon the will and moral confidence to defend ourselves. If we don't, we will continue to be seen as the "weak horse" or "paper tiger" and reap all fruits of that designation. As Ayn Rand once said:

"If some pacifist society renouced the retaliatory use of force, it would be left hopelessly at the mercy of the first thug who decided to be immoral. Such a society would achieve the opposite of its intention: instead of abolishing evil, it would encourage and reward it."

And for those who like to state that only 1% of the world's Muslims are the problem, that's still 13,000,000 to 15,000,000 potential "problems"...our roughly the size of the state of Ohio.

For an excellent article concerning our right and duty to self-defense try this on for size:

www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-winter/no-substitute-for-victory.asp

"...why do you fear Islam so....What are the drivers of your fear[?]"
Posted above.

It is not fear. It is a reluctant disdain born of anticipation of being forced down a path that will needlessly end sadly. It is the aversive nausea that precedes the sober effectuation of a painful disfiguring cure.

John Wesley had this to say of Islam

Ever since the religion of Islam appeared in the world, the espousers of it...have been as wolves and tigers to all other nations, rending and tearing all that fell into their merciless paws, and grinding them with their iron teeth; that numberless cities are raised from the foundation, and only their name remaining; that many countries, which were once as the garden of God, are now a desolate wilderness; and that so many once numerous and powerful nations are vanished from the earth! Such was, and is at this day, the rage, the fury, the revenge, of these destroyers of human kind.

The Doctrine of Original Sin, Works (1841), ix. 205.

or

"I studied the Kuran a great deal .. I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammed. As far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world, and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion infinitely more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself."

Like D'Souza, Tocqueville also studied the Koran but came away with quite a different conclusion.

And another from Churchill which applies to D'Souza

"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject".

Assalamau Laikum Peoples,

I guess as Infedels you probably have to worry a little.,..but really just join...if you have some time ..then come along, it's dead easy, read the sahada, get a few monies and ...the problem is no longer there.

I personally don't see why you wouldn't save yourselves ...the salvatoin of Allah is near...let it touch you.

Naseem,

"let it touch you". Tell that to David Berg...he may be able to hear you, since his killers left his ears attached to his decapitated head.

Alert : Mr Spencer

Jihad online

An estimated 5,000 web sites are devoted to the spread of Islamic extremism. » '60 Minutes' video

This is on the yahoo homepage

http://www.yahoo.com/

""let it touch you".

....The Muslims swift sword or rusty knife certainly has touched the Ahmadi, lopping off a head every once in a while, not the mention lopping off the heads of the Rubber plantation workers, the ice cream vendor, the elderly nun, other reporters, captured soldiers, kidnapped civilians, barbers, Muslim children, garbage collectors, tourists and travelers, Jews, Christians, members of other religions, the priest, the Bedouin camel herders, the black africans, the editors of newspapers printing cartoons, and so many more...

.....Islam certainly reaches out to touch you....

and it certainly is not warm nor friendly....

Islam is nothing but a death cult.....find your local Islami cleric and tell him so....

One has to have the heart of a Patriot to be free, because as world voters are proving they prefer enslavement and a government to dictate and care for them.

Let us not forget Theo Van Gough...He to was touched by the religion of peace.

If this Churchill quote dates back to 1893, then it shows that even at 19 years old, Winston Churchill was far wiser than any politician alive today. Perhaps the likes of Bush and Olmert ought to take note.

Winston Churchill also wrote this in The River War:

“The religion of Islam above all others was founded upon the sword … Moreover it provides incentives to slaughter, and in three continents has produced fighting breeds of men – filled with a wild and merciless fanaticism.”

And lets not forget this from John Quincy Adams in 1829:

"In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adams's capital letters)… Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant… While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and goodwill towards men.

Or this:

The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.

And these chilling words from Ayatollah Khomeini in 1942 - a full 37 years before the Iranian Revolution - ought to be etched on every Western leaders' mind:

“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”

And sadly, those 'foolish souls' include most of our politicians, academics, and 80% of the general population in the West.

exsgtbrown,

".....Islam certainly reaches out to touch you...."

Plus Islam did reach out and "touched" America one bright Tuesday morning a few Septembers back.

Name the enemy , the people will fight, Thats why the say Terrorism and extremism.

"If this Churchill quote dates back to 1893, then it shows that even at 19 years old, Winston Churchill was far wiser than any politician alive today. Perhaps the likes of Bush and Olmert ought to take note.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683"

you beat me to to it ,,,i was thinking the same thing....Winston Churchill was Indeed a man with extrordinary vision.....Unlike ward Churchill (no relation) who is a lying anti American slug....

General Patton on how to win a war (from a speech to his men before the invasion of Sicily)...

"When we land against the enemy, don't forget to hit him and hit him hard. When we meet the enemy we will kill him. We will show him no mercy. He has killed thousands of your comrades and he must die. If you company officers in leading your men against the enemy find him shooting at you and when you get within two hundred yards of him he wishes to surrender – oh no! That bastard will die! You will kill him. Stick him between the third and fourth ribs. You will tell your men that. They must have the killer instinct. Tell them to stick him. Stick him in the liver. We will get the name of killers and killers are immortal. When word reaches him that he is being faced by a killer battalion he will fight less. We must build up that name as killers."

That's a great military mind. General Patton is one man who might have been able to teach the Iraqis democracy - or pretty much anything, including how to jump through flaming hoops while wearing pink tutus.

Instead we have General Petraeus, who when in northern Iraq, made his men put up sticky notes by their mirror that said "What have I done to win an Iraqi heart today?"...

Assalamau Laikum Excommeie ,

you say "we do not want any of it (Islam)in our land.

It is without doubt that the Indians of 200 years ago would have said the same. "We do not want these christian lunds amongst us...they ask us not to till our land on sundays and want us to wear some ridiculous cross, they want us to clean shave our joyous brillo beards to see complete faces...unheard of...what are these heathens doing here amongst us".

But your grandfathers didn't want to listen, "christianty is good for you" they said ..."you need to touch it" they said....only now WE are asking the same question...and we are getting the same answer from you that we gave.

So let us stay for the next 100 years ..to see if works...if not then we will go back home...where-ever home would be...like your grand fathers did.....deal!

And finally after all our appeasement to Muslims and Islam, it will come down to this

"No terms but fight or death were offered. No reparation or apology could be made. . . The red light of retribution played on the bayonets and the lances, and civilization—elsewhere sympathetic, merciful, tolerant, ready to discuss or to argue, eager to avoid violence, to submit to law, to effect a compromise—here advanced with an expression of inexorable sternness, and rejecting all other courses, offered only the arbitration of the sword."

From The River Wars.

But your grandfathers didn't want to listen, "christianty is good for you" they said ..."you need to touch it" they said....only now WE are asking the same question...and we are getting the same answer from you that we gave.
So let us stay for the next 100 years ..to see if works...if not then we will go back home...where-ever home would be...like your grand fathers did.....deal! Posted by: Naseem

Nice try with the tu quoque, but it won't work. For one thing, the Brits (unlike the Portugese in Goa) never instituted forced conversions, or even preferential treatment for Hindus/Muslims who converted to Christianity. While a lot of people rightly resent the selective activities of Christian missionaries in proselytizing to Hindus, but not Muslims, there is still a world of difference between that vs forced conversions of the Delhi Sultans, the Moghuls and others. Oh, and Hindus (unlike Sikhs) didn't have any mandates re: beards - historically, people have been both bearded and clean-shaven.

Anyway, why don't you first slug it out with the Sunnis - too shit scared that they'll send you and your entire clan to Allah? You had your convert friend - whassisname - Ashraf who converted from Sunni to Ahmadiya, and was promptly murdered. Start your activities at home, in La-whore, and then, after you've converted all Pakistan to Qadiani and had a chance to edit that passport application, you can then try converting us to Ahmadiya Islam.

One thing at a time. First things first.

Naseem ,once again you fail to realize those who know what islam is about and how disgusting it is.

There is not one chance in hell islam will be a super power.Islam isn't superior enough to be superior.

The more you prod and push your way into the path of freedom the more you will realize islam has no chance.

All the while the islamists bring up the past of others bad deeds.Islam still commits treachery upon the land like no other.

Why not just bring up the crusades? Why the indians? Because the crusades made out of islam what islam is LOSERS.

Actually i find your posts humerous.

Why doesn't islam give back all the land it's stolen? Doesn't the koran give the proof of it's thieving past? I see the tactics used by muhammad are alive and well today to steal from others.The islamic way to success.How lazy.

Do you get plenty to eat there in pakistan naseem? How about warmth ,are you warm in the winter? Got a roof over your head? That American money feel good in your pockets.

Ha ha islam has failed to realize who thier true masters are.The longer thier hands are held out
the more of themselves they sell.Islam has never built anything with it's own hands.It has no mind to do such feats.

I can safely and securely say that soon,one day soon all the zombies will be begging to go back to thier hell holes where they can be slain for thier infractions of muhammads joke laws all day long,BUT they have to escape the hell that they so much desire first.You are being closed in on whether you or any zombie knows it or not.The game will go full circle for there are too many players and the rules will go the way of the wind.

Jihad can only be fair if we can all use it,even on old mo's horde,especially on old mo's horde,they deserve it.

The only thing islam HAS earned is the storm that quickly approaches.No 'lion or hero can escape the wrath of the monsters. The monsters come directly from the belly of the beast as we are called by the horde (umma,you)but we call ourselves Americans and we reside in the land of the free and it's the home of the brave.

SO if your little jab at us about the indians is to insenuate that we give a territory to the zombies (the horde,you )think again.

I still fail to see why muslims are here in the free world. If it's to enjoy our freedoms then you might as well get used to the fact that islam will not dominate,not even come close.There can be no coddling islam at the expense of other races and religions.

The murder movement will come to an end the only question is what amount of islam will remain intact,not much i hope,not if all goes well.

Over six billion people on this planet only just over a billion are muslims,how many are truly muslims is only a guess but not really that important to me.

The crusaders,the monsters,patriots what ever name they be known by are rising and islam will feel the wrath one way or another.

If you are one of those delusional believers that islam is a religion of peace,which i do not buy,then you and your soul are in peril because islam is THE most corrupt entity on this planet.So few in islam with so much power over your bones.

Why go to the land of crusaders and demand equality? why not the horde go home and ask for it there? We pay the price for our rights,now all zombies go home and pay the price for yours.

You have earned nothing here and you will not steal ours.

Islam is full of such cowards it is embarrasing to watch.Ther are no men in islam only little boys with brain washed minds who are told they are men.

There is no fear of islam,islam fears me and it is right in doing so.

asamlamadingdong fool

and all that jazz.

this is the best quote about Winston Churchill, It's very adapted for the current situation with islamism:"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last"
and I used it as a motto in my blog (in spanish) about islam

Dont feed the troll.

To Excommie:

Apropos of nothing, and certainly none of my business, but do you care to tell the story behind your nom de plume?

It is quite apparent that neither Churchill nor Patton was an aficionado of the Just War Theory, which is Political Correctness applied to warfare.

Cubed--

I haven't seen you here since last June. Welcome back.

I hope nobody thinks I am being pedantic but in 1893 Sir Winston Churchill was only 18 or 19 and still at school or studying to be an office. His first publish works was “THE STORY OF THE MALAKAND FIELD FORCE” which he wrote in 1897 followed a year or so later by “THE RIVER WAR” about his experiences in the War in the Sudan. I have no recollection of any work written by Sir Winston Churchill called “THE RIVERS OF AFRICA”. Is it possible that you have mixed up the titles. And the Quote comes from his book “THE RIVER WARS”?

"they want us to clean shave our joyous brillo beards to see complete faces"

...Native American Indians do not have facial hair....