CAIR's Altaf Ali is seething about the questioning on Islam by Judge Marcia Cooke. But he shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. Cooke, who has already stated, before the trial even began, that the feds' case is "light on facts," is apparently trying to make sure that no one is prejudiced against Abdullah al-Muhajir (a.k.a. Jose Padilla) because he is a Muslim. Probably her line of questioning was one that Altaf Ali should have welcomed, as it will likely fill the jury with people who believe that Islam is a religion of peace, hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists. One hopes they will not be so disconnected from reality that they will be unable to evaluate whether or not al-Muhajir, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi really conspired to "murder, kidnap and maim" people.
"Padilla jury selection starts in Miami terror trial," by Vanessa Blum in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel:
Miami ยท The toughest questions were about Islam.Did the potential jurors view it as a violent religion? Do they think Muslims are more prone to commit crimes? Would potential jurors be able to distinguish between religious devotion and support for terrorism?
U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke's probing questions came on the first day of jury selection in the trial of accused al-Qaida operative Jose Padilla. They were meant to ensure jurors reach a verdict of guilt or innocence based on evidence, not biases or stereotypes.
Padilla, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi face charges they took part in a conspiracy to "murder, kidnap and maim" people overseas. Prosecutors say the defendants sent money, supplies and recruits to support radical Islamic groups waging holy war. The men, all Muslim, have pleaded not guilty.
The hearing gave a rare glimpse into the candid views of Americans on religion and terror in the wake of the 9-11 attacks and the ongoing Iraq war.
"I do think for their god, they would give their lives," said one man. "That is not 100 percent of them I'm sure, but I have heard that said."
Another said he believed only an extremist element of the Islamic faith advocates violence.
"I respect the good Muslim as much as I do the good Christian or good Jew," he said....
Altaf Ali, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Florida, called it a "travesty" that a defendant's religion would take center stage in the courtroom.
"When you put someone on trial, it's not their religion on trial," Ali said.
In cases involving allegations of terrorism, Ali said he recognized the need to screen for biases in a case involving terrorism. Arabic words like "jihad" often evoke negative connotations, he said....
Yes, Mr. Ali. You might want to speak with Mr. bin Laden about that.
The Miami case does not mention the primary accusation against Padilla at that time: that he wanted to detonate a radioactive "dirty" bomb on U.S. soil.In a measure signaling the heightened security around the case, guards looked through the bags of spectators and scanned individuals entering the courtroom with a metal detector....
A south korean man from Christianstan massacred 31 of his fellow christians in cold blood. The terrorist act is the worst of its kind on a college campus in the US history. Pray for the innocent victims.
Judge Marcia Cooke and her mental acrobatics would make
Forrest Gump blush.
Here is another piece on Mamduh Habib who went to Pakistan (and Afghanistan) after 9/11 to 'find a good Muslim school for his kids' and ended up in Gitmo instead. Now he is trying to sue us and make us pay for his holiday:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/04/17/habib-rubs-it-australians-detained-me/
"Arabic words like "jihad" often evoke negative connotations,"
Ali said ..
.....I suppose that is because the Muslim terrorists scream "Jihad" every time they behead someone, blow up innocent civilians, execute people for not being Muslim enough, or participate in violent rampages destroying property and creating public mayhem....
.....1 + 1=.....
I can tell you based on personal experience that jury selection is looking to pick the people 'most ignorant' in terms of background for the case. Voire dire is a set of questions and the fewer a potential juror responds to, the better the chances he/she will be selected to serve on the jury.
I was picked for a civil rights case based in part on the fact that I didn't raise my hand or respond to any questions. The other times I did raise my hand or had personal experience with installing fences, wooden deck installation and tree trimming issues. I wasn't selected for any of those trials.
My guess would be a jury comprised of those willfully ignorant of Islam.
Christianstan? The Virginia Tech shooter was apparently a South Korean. Less than 30% of the population of that country is Christian. Are you really that thrilled, ibn battuta, that once in a while a homicidal crazy isn't a Muslim? If so, it would seem you consider homicidal crazies being Muslims the norm. Shame on you.
"A south korean man from Christianstan....."
Posted by: idn batutta
....No one has said what religion , if any , this man belongs to....Korea has many religions and many athesists....
......mass murder, no matter who commits it , is a terror act....
......be that as it may...in todays world, 95% of mass sensless murder is being committed by Muslims...
1. Idn batutta - your comparative argument doesn't work.
There's no Christian theological argument for going out and murdering innocents, hence the gunman (if he was Christian) was a crazed loner, probably mentally unbalanced.
However, jihadi violence by muslims is (a) inevitably justified as being theologically correct according to the Koran and Mohammed's example and (b) part of a consistent worldwide pattern.
2. The questions the judge should have been asking were:
Did the potential jurors understand that it is a religion which advocates violence against unbelievers in its official holy book, the example of its founder and all the major schools of islamic theology?
Do they think Muslims are more prone to commit crimes if they decide to pursue Jihad?
Would potential jurors be able to recognise that religious devotion to islam encourages support of terrorism carried out by muslims against non-muslims?
And for the juror who answered "I respect the good Muslim as much as I do the good Christian or good Jew," did they mean 'good' in the Western culture sense of the word, or the islamic sense of the word. I assume they meant the former and don't understand it is incompatible with the latter.
"When you put someone on trial, it's not their religion on trial," Ali said.
In trying to establish motivation for a crime, one might be led to consider religious factors. This is such a case.
idn, you must be trying really hard to make sure you find christians that behave like muslims, i am sure it must be quite hard for you.... well i guess your search continues, because this sort of thing is ususlly islamic.....
islam is satanism in a different cloth/dress.
my heart goes out to the victims and there families.
Does anyone have any experience with jury duty? If so, do you know if you can get charged with perjury for lying during the selection process?
Has anyone ever tried putting Padilla's face over or under the top of thumbnails picture of John Doe #2? What a match!
idn batutta
Your simplicity and stupidity are annoying. While the killer may have been Christian, there is no theological basis in Christianity which could ever lead a Christian to kill.
As Muslims however, he have considerable ammunition, whether it be in Al'Qur'an, Sunnah or the work of scholars. In fact, when jihadists commit acts of terror, they often provide a treatise which carefully outlines the legal rulings that would justify their actions.
You cannot point to one act of terror committed by Christians where a serious argument firmly rooted in Christ's teachings, that could justify cold blooded murder or terror. You simply could'nt do it.
There is no moral equivalency... period.
Thomas
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
Idiocracy
Ya'll might enjoy this movie
ibn battutta
I don't actually want to meet you but I would like to see your picture on the side of a milk carton.
wrathofasma
This is from California statutes:
Why do they ask so many personal questions and do I have to answer them?
Everybody who is summoned into court as a juror comes with past experiences and opinions which may effect the way a person views evidence or the testimony of some witnesses. The process of questioning prospective jurors is called "voir dire" and is controlled by the judge. [Civil cases - CCP Section 222.5] [Criminal cases - CCP Section 223; and JAS Section 8.5(c)] The questioning is designed to help the parties, the judge and the juror learn of experiences, relationships or opinions which might cause the juror to base a decision on something other that the law and evidence presented at trial. For example, a juror who had recently lost a child in a alcohol related traffic accident may not feel emotionally detached enough to render a fair impartial verdict in a case where the defendant is charged with driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of an alcoholic beverage.
Prospective jurors take an oath to answer all questions truthfully [CCP Section 232]; however, most judges will provide individuals an opportunity to answer questions privately when the juror indicates that he or she would be embarrassed or would feel uncomfortable providing a full, complete and truthful answer in the public forum of open court. Upon showing of "good cause," the judge can order the records of juror answers sealed.
Civil Code of Procedure Section 232
(a) Prior to the examination of prospective trial jurors in the panel assigned for voir dire, the following perjury acknowledgement and agreement shall be obtained from the panel, which shall be acknowledged by the prospective jurors with the statement "I do": "Do you, and each of you, understand and agree that you will accurately and truthfully answer, under penalty of perjury, all questions propounded to you concerning your qualifications and competency to serve as a trial juror in the matter pending before this court; and that failure to do so may subject you to criminal prosecution."
(b) As soon as the selection of the trial jury is completed, the following acknowledgment and agreement shall be obtained from the trial jurors, which shall be acknowledged by the statement "I do": "Do you and each of you understand and agree that you will well and truly try the cause now pending before this court, and a true verdict render according only to the evidence presented to you and to the instructions of the court."
One can understand the judge being required to have parties sitting without prejudice, who will decide guilt or otherwise on the basis of the evidence alone, presumably.
Isn't it as likely that dismissal of persons with a negative view of islam will result in a jury of leftists - it's all America's fault - and such nonsence.
How can any sane and sentient member of the West, given current islamic killings have anything but a negative view of islam.
Most of us, except the islamic trolls, could likely not make it onto this jury.
>Altaf Ali, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Florida, called it a "travesty" that a defendant's religion would take center stage in the courtroom.
What a goofball.
The judge's questions were intended to root out anyone prejudiced against Islam to assure a fair trial.
Ali's statement was dumb. (Actually, it was obtuse and hate-mongering, but that seems to be par for the CAIR course.)
In yesterday's story about the Jose Padilla trial, there is this paragraph about jury selection:
"I think the religion espouses intolerance of other religions and looks to a situation where they are either going to kill non-Muslims or subjugate them," one potential male juror said.
On the plus side, the word is getting out, people are educating themselves. This is a fairly good summary of the situation (he combined conversion to Islam and paying the jizya, but that's quibbling). It's hard to believe this juror is unaware of sites such as JW/DW (it almost sounds like RS got a jury summons).
On the negative side, I am certain this potential juror was rejected. For stating an objective and verifiable fact, he was excluded from the proceedings. Just as truth is a defense in libel, it should be in voir dire as well. By definition, by design, they will be getting 12 jurors who are uninformed about the core beliefs of the ideology that motivates Abdullah al-Muhajir (Padilla).
Are Muslims that desperate on here to try to equate a Korean as a Christian just to try and link another religion to murder?
Apparently so as the hate posting by Ibn clearing states.
No one knows what this kook was triggered by as his writings are not yet public. Something though is being hidden, because a 9 mm does not "blow one's face off" as the police reported yesterday in being a problem to identify this murderer.
Many reports are misleading in this, but one thing is certain is this person was not a Christian.
The more telling event is Ibn so full of outrage he is taking another murder spree to try and convince the world that Islam is not a problem.
BREAKING NEWS....A christian terrorist shouting 'Jesus is great' bust into a univeristy campus and murdered 33 innocent people yesterday The fundamentalist right-wing was a CHRISTIAN of korean decent who hated freedom and the american dream...
In other news today, The kuffar have began the mock kangaroo court for Al-Muhajir instead of fighting the real causes of MUTUAL TERROR. Instead of doing something about the illegal zionist occupation of palestine and the crusader occupation of other muslim lands, they have decided to put on a show trial - Padilla isn't the loser here, whether he finds death or prison, its the armrikess who are the losers in my eyes...And offcourse Allah knows best
This is why we should not let the civilian courts defend those who should be tried by a military system.
We should also be bringing back the words: sedition and traitor, along with the reprocussions for being labeled as one or the other.
R_not - I agree.
I appreciate your use of his new name. Local Chicago newcasters constantly refer to him as "Padilla".
Hugh, Marisol, Robert....I think I understand the educational value of giving free reign to Abdullah or Naseem. They are amusing. However, "idb battuta" not quite. I hereby petition for a ban. Yays and Nays accepted now......
Tushar Saxena-- a big "yes" to that.
All: Please keep comments about the Virginia Tech tragedy on yesterday's thread. I'll be removing a number of off-topic comments on this thread.
Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor
I was giving you a test of your silly accusations. What that korean did in no way reflects, actually it does reflect the blood-bath crusades in red-indian-america and palestine but I understand there are christians who do not practise what he did, christians who love God and his prophets, christians who are upright in their dealings, however a minority.
You call the legitimate resistance of the oppressed, terror. Have you no mercy or shame in your hearts to accuse the aggressed of committing terror? Well, I guess you are not at the receiving end of Bush and olmert's missiles.
"olmert's missiles.
Posted by: Abdullah "
.....?????
....Olmert has not fired any missiles lately, on the other hand the Palestinians fire rocket dailey into Israel and they have been doing so for a long time....
....perhaps Olmert or some other Israel may fire missiles, but it is not happening now....
.....when was the last time Israel fired missiles? one year ago? two Years ago? three?
.....when was the last time Palestinians fired rockets? yesterday? the day before? three days ago?......
who is on the receiving end of the rockets fired by Muslims (almost every day?)...
....fortunately for Israel the Muslims are having a hard time hitting anything, but they are trying.....
All these arguments of whether Hui was a Christian or not are totally irrelavent. I am married to a Korean who by the way is not a Christian, neither am I only in that I no longer practice the faith. That aside, what I'm sure you will find is that this kid was depressed as a result of his family and social situation. The family situation of being the sole male in the family and yet not being as successful as his elder sister who is a graduate of Princeton. Loss of face. Social situation is one of being a 23 yr old Korean male nearly ready to graduate from college and no prospective wife or maybe having been recently shot down by a potential female interest. In addition to all this it is not uncommon for the families, mother and father, of Korean children to have extremely high expectations for their children and even higher for any male children. The mere fact that they immigrated to this country would tell me that they had great expectations for both of their children. Sometime that expectation is not met and Korean parents can be very hard on their kids. Not often babied and coddled as with the vast majority of today's American kids. This could have caused a great deal of depression on the part of this kid and may have even played a major part in these horrendous murderers. Does it excuse his actions? Absolutely not! Does it have anything to do with RELIGON of any kind? NO! So give it a break and get with reality.
For those of you that keep shooting back at the moronic comments of the obviously Radical Islamist that would love to subvert every person that reads these pages, the best thing you can do is not give them a voice. You do that by not responding to their jiberish nosensical comments that more often than not are even spewed in poor English. Some time the best defense against the ignorance of people like these Radical Islamist can be silence. Change the subject, ignore their comments and speak to the issue at hand, not their irrelavent comments which have no basis of fact.
memo to abdullah:
For your information, the 'native' American tribespeople (who came from Siberia about ten thousand years BC from across the Bering Strait) over the millennia killed many more of their own people than the white settlers to North America did (human life meant little in tribal societies, something they had in common with Islam!). The native also had no compunction about mutilating and torturing each other, enslaving each other (the "reds" practiced slavery in pre-Columbian North America and some 'red' native American tribespeople were caucasians for your information) or stealing each other's territory.
There was no bloodbath against natve Americans in the United States, as you have dishonestly posted. The 2 million native Americans that died were mostly not intentionally killed nor attacked with weaponry (although some were, and some did the same thing to settlers of European extraction I might add). The majority of native American deaths in the late 1800s were caused by overexposure to severely cold weather conditions (something you would doubtlessly know nothing about being from the Middle east). Kept in holding areas from which they were not permtted to leave or forced to relocate on foot in harsh winter conditions and not given adequate clothing and shelter, the majority of the 'native' American people died as mentioned from overexposure to extreme cold temperatures. The US government ignored these people after it had captured them and was guilty of malignant neglect (not a 'bloodbath').
We prefer to leave the 'bloodbaths' to Islam, one of the few things that Muslims excel in. To date, Islam has slaughtered over 300 million people across the planet and is racking up impressive gains every day in places like Pakistan, the Philippines, Sudan, and elsewhere there are jihad wars going on.
Muslims are taught that the unbelievers are hypocrites. Too bad Muslims are generally unaware they too are capable of the same thing as no Muslim has any business accusing other peoples of unjustified killing as Islam is the leading cause of wartime deaths in human history. For any Muslim to criticize other peoples of unjustified killing is a perfect example of hypocrisy. Yes, abdullah YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE for attacking America for defending its people from jihadists.
Icid
memo to abdullah:
Those jihadists in the throes of attempting to destroy western civilization are not entitled to the benefits of western civilization. We are within our rights to deny them access to our rights. After all, Muslims do not believe in human rights anyway.
We can try the jihadists in kangaroo courts if we want. Kangaroo courts are actually too good for these people.
So why not just hop on out of this blog you tiresome troll?
"Altaf Ali, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Florida, called it a "travesty" that a defendant's religion would take center stage in the courtroom".
Deception, deception, deception. It's going to undo them one day. What is it like to be part of a "religion" that permits deception? Imagine Jesus telling the apostles that its OK to deceive unbelievers. Imagine Jesus telling the apostles "War is deception, deception is war, strike the necks of non-Christ followers, kill the unbelievers. And BTW, Muslims are apes and pigs."
What would Muslims think of a religion that called Muslims "apes and pigs"? I wonder.
"A south korean man from Christianstan massacred 31 of his fellow christians in cold blood. The terrorist act is the worst of its kind on a college campus in the US history. Pray for the innocent victims."
Posted by: idn batutta at April 17, 2007 10:03 AM
This looks like another one of those lame attempts to equate an obviously insane crime to the Jihadists crimes of Muslims.
I have yet to hear of any evidence that this disturbed young man was shouting "God is Great" as he was slaughtering his innocent victims.
Neither did he make a martyrs video, complete with verses from the bible to justify the horrendous evil he was planning on commiting.
Neither will you see his portrait plastered all over the Virginia Tech campus as a means of glorfying his incridibly barbaric act.
And, no, his Mother won't be honored with any obscene titles like "Mother of Martyrs" for the terrible thing he did. And neighbors won't be flocking to his parent's door to congratulate them on their son's martyrdom.
And, oh, yes, no Christian believes that this unfortunate young man is now tumbling aroung paradise with 72 virgins as a reward from God for his horrendous crime.
Every Christian knows that what this man did was a sin against a just God, and a crime against all humanity.
Yes, we, as Christians, will pray for the innocent victims of this twisted young man,just as we pray for the innocent victims of the twisted Islamic Martyrs.
Your atempt at suggesting moral equivalency between Christians and Muslims was dead on arrival. Rivers of innocent blood seperate our two worlds.
"What would Muslims think of a religion that called Muslims "apes and pigs"? I wonder.
Posted by: Frank "
What would Muslims think of a religion that told them they could pay a special tax (just to be allowed to live), or they could convert, or they could just be killed....?
Idn Batutta: A crazed killer from a heavily Christian country is news; one from a heavily Muslim one is not. Devout Muslims kill their neighbors the way dogs bark and bite.
Marisol
Throw in 'An American' into that list - the one who's just 'doing some thinking'.
Also, can we stop calling the VA Tech shootings a tragedy? Hurricane Katrina was a tragedy; the Indian Ocean tsunami was a tragedy. Things like 9/11 and yesterday's shootings aren't tragedies - they're atrocities.
There's a difference. Calling the latter tragedies has the effect of diffusing any righteous anger that may result from the outrage that one feels at such criminal acts. Whereas one can feel only sorrow, but not outrage, when a tsunami takes out half the town.
When you put someone on trial, it's not their religion on trial.
And, by Islam's fake status as a religion, Padilla's hatred of non-Moslems and commitment to killing the same by Jihad terror war is ruled inadmissable.
In the real world, these salient and self-acknowledged facts would be admitted as clues.
Please tell ibu,
that those few,remaining misguided Christian crusader warriors of the world must unite!
For a spagetti dinner follwing the 5:30 mass this Saturday,prior to the school fair. Raffle at 11:oo,for $2,500 pot. A veritable fanatical terrorist *(which can be any lunatic skilled in the arts of killing employed for any motive BTW,see "Rutger Hauer" in "Nighthawks" to grasp the general concept)* picnic to say the least. Contrast such culture with scenes one experiences directly outside of a mosque following Friday sermons,please.
Mr. Hugh Fitzerald,
Although we're aware this is not a dating site, a certain attrative 19 year old sister of mine is bugging me to inform you that your "shit is the bomb" please feel free to receive this as a compliment;)
Regardless of what religion the Virginia Tech killer happened to be, I find it interesting that many of the people in South Korea feel that they owe us an apology for what took place. On the other hand, many of the Muslims in this country seem to think we owe them some sort of an apology for not thinking of Islam in glowing terms since the events of 9/11.
By the way, from what I have seen on PBS regarding Islam, CAIR has never had an active member who has had anything to do with terrorism. Nope, they're just a friendly civil rights group doing their thing. Once again, Muslims are the victims. You retaliate for their actions, and they become the victims. Isn't this the same song they have been singing in Israel for years?