Captured Al-Qaeda leader masterminded 7/7 London bombings

'he was the man,who,in 2003,identified Britain as the key battleground for exporting Al Quaeda's holy war to Britain.'
Sadly this is true. Lived for 3 years in London/Londonistan which was already awash with
Terrorists then-Brits especially lazy Politicians
making Islamists out to be 'something of a joke.'
Certainly NO THREAT.
Yeah,well Hitler was considered to be 'a joke' &
look how his murderous schemes & intentions of
dominating the world came to fruition while people laughed...

Sorry-ought to read 'exporting Al Quaeda's holy war to EUROPE!'

I wonder what his business he was tending to in Iran?

Simple...

al qaedas collusion correspondence with the iranian aider and abettors (much like iraq did with the 9/11 hijackers in their training at Salman Pak. They had a collusionist, too). Or more accuratly, the term is "representative".

"Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi, a former major in Saddam Hussein’s army, was apprehended as he tried to enter Iraq from Iran and was transferred this week to the “high-value detainee programme” at Guantanamo Bay."

Welome to Cuba, a**hole. Let's step into this little room over here and have a talk.

"Terrorists then-Brits especially lazy Politicians
making Islamists out to be 'something of a joke.'
Certainly NO THREAT."

Too true, Morgane. They've got past the "joke" stage (remember Abu Hamza, "Captain Hook", as though he was a pantomime villain?), and there are more and more articles critical of Islamism in the press, but I fear it will take another atrocity to turn the tide. Your comparison with how people viewed Hitler is very apposite. The trouble with us English is that we're probably too ready to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Abd al-Hadi was taken into CIA custody last year, it emerged from US intelligence sources yesterday, in a move which suggests that he was interrogated for months in a “ghost prison” before being transferred to the internment camp in Cuba.

Liberal mush heads be damned, this Allah intoxicated psycho killer was debriefed with extreme prejudice. As it should be. "Ghost prison" can mean many things. As long as it's invisible to the gossipy old women (like Patrick Lahey) of the Senate Intelligence Committee I'm happy

This is what happens when a government, more interested in muslim votes, stifles any criticism of islam and it's justification for terrorism.

Worse still, we pay these people social security to plot to kill us.

"Posted by Robert at April 29, 2007 02:41 AM"

Seems neither Robert nor Marisol ever sleep.

Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi, a former major in Saddam Hussein’s army.....

I like the way these sappy primitives call him "al-Iraqi" which must mean "the Iraqi" or "from Iraq". Same as our (USA) old gangster names, such as Detroit Red or Chicago Slim

Al-Hindi (from India) was another IslamoJihadist's name. He was a Muslim from India

UnAmerican: If you dare to make an appearance, there are about 40 responses to you waiting in this thread:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016230.php#comments

We avidly await your responses!

As these islamist kill more innocents ,the more the civilized nations average person views them with fear, fear is the altamite attitude adjuster!!

The fact that this dirtbag was able to recruit people to act as sabateurs shows how foolish Britain has been in her immigration policies. Her generosity was cruelly exploited.
It's important that Britain reverse her mistake as she is an important ally and pillar of Western civilization. Perhaps the good in 7/7, if there is one, may be to encourage a rethinking of present policies.

This is a very interesting comment in the "Times Online" comment section about this article:

". . . yes, the Quran is an interesting book, and so is the Bible. But the problems with both the Quran and the Bible lies in the way they are both (mis)interpreted by very powerful people." by starling, Lancaster,

It appears that it is still a problem in Dhimmidom concerning the theory of scriptural (mis)interpretations. I will bet a million dollars when I win the PowerBall jackpot that Mr Starling has not read one word of the holey Quran. Perhaps Mr Starlings screen name is appropriate; the starling is a disgusting, nasty little creature that has displaced too many North American bird species.

No, I am not going to register an join in the Times Online discussions. My comments will probably be deleted anyway. Why bother?

As these islamist kill more innocents ,the more the civilized nations average person views them with fear, fear is the altamite attitude adjuster!!

Posted by: OLD SARGE

If that were true then 9/11 would have been the turning point.

It also doesn't affect the attitude of their co-religionists. You have way too much optimism. The more innocents they kill, the more average people of other nations blame the US for "driving them to violence". The Spanish PEOPLE blamed George Bush for the Madrid attacks. They didn't blame the bombers. These were commuters, average people who should have had their eyes opened. Instead they said: if we hadn't gone into Iraq then this wouldn't have happened to us. They threw out the party that had gone after terrorists and had supported the war in Iraq.

The people of Britain aren't as afraid of the terrorists as they are of George W. Bush. Tony Blair's approval rating plummeted BECAUSE he was willing to fight the terrorists when the average man in the street wanted him to stay out. Their reaction to the Tube bombing was similar to that of the Spanish: the US did this to us.

Those attitudes will not be adjusted until a nuclearized Iran kills MILLIONS and even then you can expect to hear that George W. Bush "drove them to it".

dennisw-

You're correct, sir. All the actionable intelligence was gleaned before he was moved to Gitmo.

I'm currently reading "The Looming Tower". As UBL was setting his initial 'arabs in afghan' up as the original al qaida, the young arabs would take nom de guerres that would end in the aforementioned suffix of al iraqi, al jordan etc. Zarqawi used it, too.

OLD SARGE-

Fear is the ultimate attitude adjuster. We can never experience courage without it. Makes me want to kick some 'slammi *ss.

______________________

Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer were born in the UK.

And that little reminder brings me to the point. Two little words in Celsius' comment are why native born yet unasimmilated actors were even bred in the UK.

Social Security--the worst idea to ever take hold in a free society. It's why Europe and the UK have pursued their wretched policy of encouraging millions of muslims to immigrate. We're not so far behind with our Hispanic invasion in the US, but we haven't made it an official policy to bring in workers to shore up our welfare system, yet.

It's going to be very difficult to rid yourselves of these--you can't know the decent from the murderous and the law can't help until after the fact.

Just another literal, factual, backed by evidence proof that President Bush was intelligent beyond what the masses could see in Saddam was linked with al Qaeda, that Iraq and Iran were linked in terrorism WMD and that the blame for all the death and attacks which happen from now on rests upon those who did not back his brilliant policy.

This high rank terrorist would not have been caught if not for the US military in Iraq. He would instead be planning the nuclear 7/7.

What is it going to take for people to get out of their cement attitude and admit they were ignorant and President Bush is the genius in this weighed down by all the nattering nabobs of negativism.

Thank you President Bush for doing the job no one else will do.

turn

Thanks for that nom de guerre info. Not for nothing did Claude Levi-Strauss call Islam a "barracks religion" They have the cult of the warrior same as many of our (USA) Indian tribes. Who did a fine job of killing and torturing each other before the Europeans came. Torture was high entertainment for the entire tribe. No TV back then!

BTW many tribal wars were not over hunting grounds and other natural resources. Wars were made to bring honor& prestige to triumphant braves and capture other tribe's women to turn them into breeding machines for the victorious tribe. Sex slavery so reminiscent of the ways of Muhammad and his followers down through the centuries

Capturing other tribe's women also worked against the tendency of inbreeding in tribes

"We're not so far behind with our Hispanic invasion in the US, but we haven't made it an official policy to bring in workers to shore up our welfare system, yet."

Turn,

Oh yes we have. Ask President Bush. Ask the presidential candidates (with few exceptions). It's the reason everyone in DC wants to legalize illegals and allow them to bring in dozens of relatives. It's why they want open borders. It's de facto US policy that we need more workers to replace the ones who are retiring. They claim we need them to pay the Social Security taxes of boomers, thinking that will sway us into accepting this blatant violation of our laws.

It's all about the 'tribe', isn't it. How islam ever came up with the notion of tribe to dar al islam with no nation building in between escapes me.

Lame Cherry-

I recognize that GWB has his faults (as we all do) but I'm damned glad I'm not the only fella 'round these parts that recognizes he's not stupid (probably the best read president since Kennedy), he's not mendacious (done more to help various regions out of health and economic misery) and he's walking an incredible tightrope with everything from rabid poodles to gators ready to tear meat from his bones.

For all you Americans that read and comment here please pose this question to yourselves, "What would the last six years and three months have looked like under algore?"

PMK-

You are correct and we are in agreement BUT it isn't yet the OFFICIAL policy--that was my point above.

The Europeans and the UK have actively sponsored North African and ME (and paki) emmigration to their shores.

"Abd al-Hadi recognised the potential for turning young Muslim radicals from Britain who wanted to become mujahidin ..."

But according to Dinesh D'Souza, it isn't successful Islamic recruiters like Abd al-Hadi pointing to the Koran and calling for Muslims to fight infidels wherever and however they can, and then providing them with the training and means to commit acts of terror and mass murder ... no, no, no, it's western decadence that drives these otherwise very moderate, tolerant Muslims to become crazed mujahidin. (sarc)

I do think that the opportunity to draw in Jihad leadership for capture and interrogation is one of the benefits to the Iraq War. Even the many of those on site who oppose war would have to admit that, although the obviously weigh the pro's and con's and side with the con's.

I am a Bush supporter (but not a kool aid drinker), and I find it hard to believe that any fair minded individual could conclude that Kerry or Gore would do a better job on the Jihad front than Bush is doing. The PC culture is simply that much stronger on the left, where the exceptions can be counted on one or two hands.

That being said, President Bush has needlessly injected phrases such as "religion of peace" and the "hijacking" of great religion into the mainstream of public discource. These actions, along with the scum bags (Muslim Brotherhood) he has allowed to enter the country, have to classified as failings.

Because of his lack of communication abilities, as well as an apparent lack of desire, President Bush has not attempted to take on the PC-dimension of this threat. Someone needs to do so, and quickly. The democrat candidates are hopeless on this issue. The left is so in bed with anti-Americanism that there is no hope in the immediate future. If you ask me, the primary downside to the Iraq war is that it has mobilized the left domestically to stop us from doing what needs to be done. We have the resources to attack Iran today if we need to. What stops us? A mobilized "army" of leftists who are for the moment, dominating the public discourse.

On the republican side, I don't expect anyone to go so far as Hugh or even Robert (who goes out of his way to always leave open the possibility of reformation/moderation). Given our PC culture, such a candidate would not survive for long. However, I do think we can have someone better than President Bush in that we should be able to put forth a candidate who doesn't pre-emptively reassure Muslims that we have no problems with Islam. Pre-emptive reassurance is a form of dhimmitude.

Now, if Bush wants to end his presidency on a more positive note, he needs to bring in Bin Laden.

I'd like to share a URL with those that may not have it--you very well may want to bookmark it.

http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/terroristscorecard/index.html

"Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi, a former major in Saddam Hussein’s army..."

So much for the canard that Saddam's regime had no dangerous connections with al-Qaeda -- or, if this "major" only subsequently became al-Qaeda, no dangerous potential for ideological collusion with same.

Good Jerusalem Post on-ed on The New Duranty Times, describing how the Pulitzer has gone to a journalist doing an Islamist whitewash job:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1177514491273&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Turn,

Thank you for the scorecard link. It was VERY eye-opening. I knew that al-Qaeda had a large chain of command, but it just doesn't sink in until you take a look at their Org. Chart.

Cheers,

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Pelayo quoted an Internaut named "Starling" from Lancaster, England:

"the Quran is an interesting book, and so is the Bible. But the problems with both the Quran and the Bible lies in the way they are both (mis)interpreted by very powerful people."

Then Pelayo noted:

"It appears that it is still a problem in Dhimmidom concerning the theory of scriptural (mis)interpretations."

I have identified this as one of the mechanisms of the PC multiculturalist template: it's basically a superimposition of a Western feature of a Western religion (namely, Christianity) onto a non-Western religion (in this case, Islam). Superimpositions of Western features onto the non-West is a staple of PC multiculturalism -- ironically, paradoxically and hypocritically, since the PC multiculturalists pride themselves on their trans-Western sympathy with other cultures and simultaneously chastise their Western fellows for their xenophobic reductionism of "the Other". The feature being superimposed in this case is the sociological phenomenon of Christians misinterpreting their holy scriptures -- which almost always means, to the PC multiculturalist, Christians cherry-picking and intensifying certain passages of the Bible in order to advance an extremist fundamentalism that contravenes Leftist values.

It gets subtle and complicated at this juncture: the PC multiculturalists, in their transferral of this feature onto Islam, execute a subtle sleight-of-hand:

1) when contemplating Islam and Islamic culture, the PC multiculturalists transfer the component of a small minority of extremist fundamentalists that in fact characterizes the Western Christian phenomenon of scriptural "misinterpretation";

but,

2) when contemplating Western Christianity and Christian culture, the very same PC multiculturalists mock, and worry about, the ominous dangers of extremist fundamentalism among Western Christians, with an anxiety far out of proportion to the relatively small significance and power of said Christian extremism -- which they themselves, the PC multiculturalists, implicitly acknowledge when they are superimposing it onto the Islamic model.

Thus, not only do the PC multiculturalists contradict themselves (either out of deranged incoherence or out of a clever sleight-of-hand) in the way they formulate an understanding of Islam, they also egregiously misplace the appropriate concern for extremism -- worrying more about Christian extremism than about Islamic extremism, when the latter's dimensions are so much more massively evident than the former.

This latter egregious misplacement of concern then, in turn, depends on two other closely related mechanisms of the PC multiculturalist template:

1) anti-Westernism

2) crypto-racist anti-racism.

Ummm...you misspelled "multicults" lol
(just kiddin man)
;-)

I don't know how old you are but my civilised average national personal view turning point came back in the 70'S, and i haven't deviated one bit since, when was yours!!!!!

I really don't care about what other nations think about me as i sit here in my country,i"m not here for them only my kids and grand kids, do i have to tell you what side i'm on!!!!

OLD SARGE-

Calm down, sir. Don't you know that every extra ! raises your blood pressure by 5 points?

“And that little reminder brings me to the point. Two little words in Celsius' comment are why native born yet unasimmilated actors were even bred in the UK.
Social Security--the worst idea to ever take hold in a free society. It's why Europe and the UK have pursued their wretched policy of encouraging millions of muslims to immigrate.”

Not so. It isn’t social security in itself that is bad (Bismarck and Gladstone, for example, didn’t think so) – but the availabilty of social security to all and sundry – including recent immigrants who wish ill to the state that is so generous to them. And social security is hardly the reason why western countries have ENCOURAGED immigration, though it may be the reason why all and sundry want to emigrate to the west. The answer lies in controlling immigration, and restricting social security to those who have paid taxes and earned it – i.e. the native population.

“The people of Britain aren't as afraid of the terrorists as they are of George W. Bush. Tony Blair's approval rating plummeted BECAUSE he was willing to fight the terrorists when the average man in the street wanted him to stay out.”

Strange, then, that he was re-elected to power in 2005!

“On the republican side, I don't expect anyone to go so far as Hugh or even Robert (who goes out of his way to always leave open the possibility of reformation/moderation). Given our PC culture, such a candidate would not survive for long.”

OK, agreed, Jan Sobieski (pbuh). How the devil do we combat and eliminate this wretched PC culture that has spread its tentacles throughout the west, stifled free and honest opinion, and is gradually leading us to ruin? Ridicule doesn’t seem to do the trick, as we old-fashioned people thought, perhaps because the PC zealots have evidently had a humorectomy.

“the nattering nabobs of negativism.”

LameCherry, I often disagree with you, but this phrase excuses you for almost everything (or is it second-hand?)

JFGR-

Read Steyn's "America Alone".

European counrtries are not reproducing at replacement rates. In order for money to come in for entitlements it became necessary to invite a fresh worker base.

It is true that many immigrants also take advantage of entitlements but the reality is that Europe and the UK essentially invited these people to come work and be taxed so that they could continue to provide those entitlements.

"And social security is hardly the reason why western countries have ENCOURAGED immigration..."

So why did they?

"the nattering nabobs of negativism.”

Spiro Agneu, 1969 (vice president under Nixon)

JFGR,

"Strange, then, that [Blair] was re-elected to power in 2005!"

Not strange at all.

And Bush was reelected in 2004. So?

Both men were reelected because, for all their defects, they were better than the competition.

turn,

“JFGR-
Read Steyn's "America Alone".”

I’ve read excerpts on his website, but unfortunately I agree with Martin Amis (in a generally favourable review) that the style is so execrable that I don’t think I’d finish it. And we Europeans have a natural antipathy to North American self-righteousness. Interesting arguments, though.

“European counrtries are not reproducing at replacement rates. In order for money to come in for entitlements it became necessary to invite a fresh worker base.”

Like the Hispanics in the U.S.?

“It is true that many immigrants also take advantage of entitlements but the reality is that Europe and the UK essentially invited these people to come work and be taxed so that they could continue to provide those entitlements.”

Again, like the Hispanics?

""And social security is hardly the reason why western countries have ENCOURAGED immigration..."

So why did they?"

(a) guilty conscience for the British Empire
(b) the British didn’t like doing menial jobs
(c) PC’n’Multiculti (chiming in nicely with (a)

Thanks for the attribution to Spiro T. – I can now breathe easy and disagree with LameCherry with a clear conscience.

“"Strange, then, that [Blair] was re-elected to power in 2005!"

Not strange at all. “

And Bush was reelected in 2004. So?

Both men were reelected because, for all their defects, they were better than the competition.”

Exactly, and we live in the real world where we have to elect someone who has put himself forward for election. So let’s not condemn the electorates of democracies as though they had chosen the candidates as well.

JFGR,

You don't get it.

I'm not condemning the electorate for reelecting Tony Blair. You reacted defensively when I pointed out an uncomfortable truth: the only reason Tony Blair is going out on such a low note is because the British people wouldn't support him. Fine. Just admit it. You voted for a party. Nothing stopped you from voting for Liberal Democrats if they represent your view.

You live in the real world. You elected this man because he was the best of a bad lot. Now let him do his job. You knew where he stood when you voted for him.

Blair is a man of courage. He is willing to stand for principles. The people of Britain don't appreciate the treasure they have.

I am a Bush supporter (but not a kool aid drinker), and I find it hard to believe that any fair minded individual could conclude that Kerry or Gore would do a better job on the Jihad front than Bush is doing. The PC culture is simply that much stronger on the left, where the exceptions can be counted on one or two hands.

It's not an either-or propostion.

Kerrygore might arguably be slightly worse than Bush. But there's really no way to tell.

Bush's cynical behaviorf in the face of better knowledge is simply outrageous.

The PC dhims can at least claim ignorance since ignoramuses they are.

Bush should know better.

Bush is PC.

There is a peculiar Box out there, under whose intellectual limitations many people are compelled to conclude that to be under the sway of PC, a person must be Leftist: therefore Bush and Blair cannot possibly be PC, you see.

Allahfanculo,

At this point, can the Dems be any worse?

Bush should know better but he doesn't. Why?

Why are marines locked up in Camp Pendleton for doing their job and going after jihadists?

Why is Bush not going after the Saudis? Why does he insist on holding their hands (literally and figuratively)? Why does Prince Bandar come in to Washington for secret meetings with higherups?

I'm not saying he has to bomb them, but surely we can practice some form of warfare on them - like repealing visa-free travel and then denying all exit visas to anyone born in Saudi. Like it or not, they are a primary source of the terrorism that is coming our way.

Why shouldn't disgusted Republicans (I count myself among them - I'm no longer a Bush supporter.) vote for Mickey Mouse in the next election? Who among the GOP crop will do what needs to be done? Not McCain. Not Giuliani. Who? I'd rather have Joe Biden than McCain!

At this point does it matter WHO wins next year? We're screwed either way.

I meant entry visas, but I think you knew that.

"Blair is a man of courage. He is willing to stand for principles. The people of Britain don't appreciate the treasure they have."

Sorry mate, but pass me a bucket, I'm going to lose my supper I'm laughing so hard.

I never voted for the idiot. 22% of the electorate did, out of a forty-something percent overall electoral turnout. The whole bunch are that bad, people just can't be bothered to take an interest.

Trust me when I say that we know full well what we have in Blair and a national treasure it ain't.

Oh remote_control,

Political Correctness is not restricted to any particular party in the political spectrum - our entire Western Civilization is now suffused with it.

Of course the Right is now infected with PC - that was the entire objective of the Marxists who created the PC culture in the first place - to indoctrinate the Right with guilt riddled politically correct mantras and dogma and make the Right more malleable to the Leftist agenda.

JFGR-

http://www.steynonline.com/

Mark Steyn American?

NOT!

Steyn was born in Toronto, Canada and educated at King Edward's School, Birmingham, England, but dropped out of education at 16 and returned to Canada to work as a disc jockey. He is of mixed Jewish and Catholic descent on his father's side (his ancestors lived for many centuries in the town of Cernauti), and Belgian (Flemish)[1] Catholic on his mother's side...

As to his writing style...

Hey, I'm just an ignorant yank.

Wishbone,

Sorry if you lost your supper. I had a laugh reading your post. Thanks for the mood lifter.

Every question time (courtesy of C-Span) he's talking about how his government has given you more health care, reduced wait time, etc. Were you left out of all the giveaways? What hasn't he given YOU?

Why aren't the Liberal Dems doing better? The news coverage suggests that most Brits should be over in their corner.

OK, like our hispanics, happy now?

And another thing, dammit.

What about Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Spain and Italy. Are they suffering guilty consciences for the British Empire? Or just going along?

__________________________

Everyday at work I have to remind myself never to underestimate the stupidity of the masses--after all, they'vr been intentionally dumbed down by mediocre government education and a media more designed to entertain than inform.

I don't know as much about Tony Blair as I do about GWB.

He's well educated (Harvard and Yale before they became hotbeds of PC) and well read. He's had a successful life in the private sector before becoming governor of the 2nd most populous state.

People actually find fault because he's his father's son.

Well, Bush Sr. has had a distinguished career from WWII to his charity work with tsunami victims. Not just a congressman, he also headed the CIA during some of the darkest days of the Cold War. VP while Reagan, against all odds, set in motion the policies that would have the Eastern Bloc fall apart and eventually the USSR.

Growing up and being a young adult amidst that certainly didn't hurt his preparation for leader of the free world.

So once again I'm going to try to educate any that care to open their minds.

Iraq is about more than Iraq. It's about more than the mideast or becoming a shining beacon of democracy to other muslim nations.

It's about the entire world spinning out of control over the resources there.

So coming to some stable solution, even though it involves 3300 tragic American deaths (somebody above said needless or pointless--don't let their mates or their parents hear that) is the price we pay to head off 3300 million.

I was interested to see how many obvious Muslims were taking part in the demonstration in London (one of a worldwide set of demonstrations) regarding the genocide in Darfur. Did anyone spot any? Did anyone see any posters complaining about Arab imperialism, saying things like "Not in my name"? Of course, if it had been a demo about the supposed bad conditions in Guantanomo Bay or the prospect of attacking Iran's nuclear facilities, they would have been there in their thousands, along with their ratbag friends from the far-left.

JFGR said "We Europeans have a natural antipathy to North American self-righteousness."

1. Did you tell the Canadians? I'm sure they'd be surprised.

2. There's nothing like the pot calling the kettle black! Self-righteousness?

3. Is it okay if we take our self-righteous soldiers out of NATO and pull them out of every country in Europe? We wouldn't want our morals to contaminate them. (And no, JFGR, I don't think we're morally superior. You think YOU are, however.)

4. We didn't "invite" Hispanics in as laborers. They invaded our country in violation of our laws, along with many Europeans and Middle Eastern Muslims. Your smugness is growing quite tiresome.

Turn,

There's a relatively new book out:

Uncouth Nation: Why Europeans Dislike America.

I haven't read it yet but I have read other books that detail the history of European attitudes toward America.

They're just jealous. Today's Europeans are descended from those who had it made during the colonial period. They were the "in crowd". It's only natural for them to be a mite snobbish.

Thanks for the support, PMK.

Thank you President Bush for doing the job no one else will do.
Posted by: Lame Cherry

Cleaning the toilet at the White House? That's about all he's good for.

Points well taken that the Reps have for the most part gone PC. The Left has intimidated them to that degree. SOWdi money is the cause for all the hand-holding and kissing.

Maybe Bush learned a few tricks at Skull&Bones to amuse Bandar and the other princelets with. Who knows...

I think Rudy or Mitt are our only hope. Why do you all think the Left hates Rudy as much as they do? Because he dealt the unions in New York a real blow and he defanged the Mafia. Plus he REFUSED out of principle to speak to Al "slim shady" sharpton, which the New York Left still hasn't gotten over.

I find this refusal to be one of the finest examples of Rudy's upstanding character. That and the SOWdi check he returned when the sender tried to get him to say something anti-Israeli.

Social conservatives - of which I am not one - may have their concerns about Rudy.

Good luck to you - getting Hitlery or Obama to ban abortion and gay marriage. It's like - WHO CARES?
This is all about understanding jihad or not understanding it. And about doing the things necessary to fight back.

If the jihadists get their way we won't have to worry about abortions and gay marriage.

Bush and Bandar can still hold hands in the White House without being stoned for adultery. Women who cheat will be stoned so no more need for abortions. Gay marriage under sharia law? Fuggeddaboutit!

What about Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Spain and Italy. Are they suffering guilty consciences for the British Empire? Or just going along?

Sweden, Denmark = BAD VIKINGS
Netherlands = BAD COLONIALISTS
Germany = BAD EVERYTHING, ie. NAZIS
Belgium = BAD FOR BEING EUROPEANS. Oh they also had colonies at one time.
Spain = DITTO
Italy = HALF-NAZIS, ETHIOPIAN COLONISTS

Or just going along?

That goes without saying.. Eurolemmings. We follow the Americans with everything we do.. as much as we bitch about them. Problem is that we go all the way. Americans have a better chance of moving past PC/multikulti. In Germany multi-kulti is the New Nazism. BEWARE if you question it!!

PMK-

You know mate, about the only thing that Blair did which really surprised me was throwing our hand in with the US when it came to military action in the ME. I thought that he'd have been howled down instantly by the bunch of lefties that comprise his government, so doing what he did was a big risk and that's coming home to roost now as he hasn't got long to go then he's out.

Health care and reduced waiting times are an absolute joke. The National Health Service is in a state of near collapse. Ten years ago, if I needed a simple appointment to see a GP at my local surgery, I'd have got in to see them either later that day, or early the day after. These days, you'd be lucky if you're appointment was sometime in the next seven days. I kid you not mate, anywhere between six to ten days to see the quack.

Hospitals aren't much better. I had to go lately because I'd snapped a tendon at the end of one of my fingers, a simple sports injury. I wouldn't have been bothered, only that it did need to be X-rayed just to make sure there was no bone damage before I popped a mallet splint on it. I was in that hospital seven hours; X-ray, quick consultation, dig out the right sized splint, a bit of surgical tape, that all took about thirty five minutes. The rest of that seven hours was taken up in waiting time, being promoted from one waiting room to the next.

I'm just glad that I'm one of those people that doesn't get sick a lot and even when I do I just get on with it. I don't sit in a lot of waiting rooms full of sick people if I can help it, you see.

No mate, Tony Blair has to be about one of the most deluded politicians of our time. I think he honestly believes that we're all basking in the benefits that his government have brought us, when it's obvious to a now uber-cynical populace that he's about as far out of touch with the electorate as a premier can get.

Forget the Lib Dems. They're even more out to lunch than the Labour Party. The only reason that my city council is Lib Dem right now is because we'd had enough of Labour Militant Socialism through the eighties, which brought down the wrath of the then Thatcher government, thereby leaving the city and it's people stuck in the middle of an ideological battle between the two warring parties. The city fell to bits and it took a long time to regenerate which, thankfully, it's now doing at a marvelously frightening pace. Of course, we're not too forgiving, so the Conservatives haven't a cats chance in hell of ever winning our council elections for their actions against the city and, in turn, its' people during their political battles.

So what we end up with is a Lib Dem council, with very Conservative policies, doing the job which we won't trust Labour or the Conservatives with. Politics can be a strange game indeed.

“JFGR said "We Europeans have a natural antipathy to North American self-righteousness."
1. Did you tell the Canadians? I'm sure they'd be surprised.
2. There's nothing like the pot calling the kettle black! Self-righteousness?
3. Is it okay if we take our self-righteous soldiers out of NATO and pull them out of every country in Europe? We wouldn't want our morals to contaminate them. (And no, JFGR, I don't think we're morally superior. You think YOU are, however.)
4. We didn't "invite" Hispanics in as laborers. They invaded our country in violation of our laws, along with many Europeans and Middle Eastern Muslims. Your smugness is growing quite tiresome.”

I am sorry you have to descend to ad hominem attacks, PMK. It’s strange that Americans (I presume you are one) often seem to think they can be as rude and hostile about the rest of the world as they like (this site has een many prize examples of this), but one has only to breathe the slightest criticism of the U.S. and all hell breaks loose. Maybe not so strange, though. Throughout history (Romans, British etc.) the top nation believes it has a monopoly of wisdom. You will find, if you read my posts, that I am not gratuitously insulting to Americans or anyone else, but, to quote you back, “[their] smugness is growing quite tiresome”, as Europeans have pointed out often on this site.

“They [Hispanics] invaded our country in violation of our laws, along with many Europeans …”

Including the founding fathers from England.

“Is it okay if we take our self-righteous soldiers out of NATO and pull them out of every country in Europe? We wouldn't want our morals to contaminate them.”

Now that is totally uncalled-for, and is often the last resort of Americans piqued at criticism. Who's talking about morals? You are setting up straw men, PMK.

“And another thing, dammit.
What about Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Spain and Italy. Are they suffering guilty consciences for the British Empire? Or just going along?”

Perhaps, as PMK said, “Today's Europeans are descended from those who had it made during the colonial period. They were the "in crowd". It's only natural for them to be a mite snobbish.” So yes, maybe they have guilty consciences for having “made it” at the expense of the rest of the world. How long before America buys into this, too? Or has the left-liberal establishment in the U.S. already bought into it?

JFGR,

You started it. What were my ad hominem attacks?

You're the one calling people self-righteous. I'm a proud American and I don't think we are. The question is why do YOU Europeans need to see us as "evil" or "the greatest threat to world peace"?

I'm just calling you on what you say. Since you have no good answer you resort to name-calling.

If Europeans hate Americans then we will be happy to leave. Why can't you answer that without calling Turn or me names?

p.s.

"They [Hispanics] invaded our country in violation of our laws, along with many Europeans …”

Including the founding fathers from England"

THIS is why I have no respect for you. You can't answer honestly so you make foolish comparisons.

Read "Hating America: A History" by Barry Rubin and Judith Culp Rubin. I'm sure you'll see yourself all through the book.

JFGR,

Did you notice how you cut the quote?

I was trying to make you see how silly your words were, but you took offense.

I said "Is it okay if we take our self-righteous soldiers out of NATO and pull them out of every country in Europe? We wouldn't want our morals to contaminate them. (And no, JFGR, I don't think we're morally superior. You think YOU are, however.)"

You ignored the last two sentences. You couldn't answer my argument so you put me down. Typical liberal.

MAN, DID I HIT A NERVE OR WHAT?

In my eleven years working outside the US I learned a lot. Not least of which was appreciation of the US. What a treasure it is even with all its faults.

JFGR, Wishbone and other UK cousins-

If offense was taken by the fact that your social welfare systems are responsible for your immigration problems, then so be it.

Socialism is a scourge on humanity. It's just as effective as islamism at taking self-responsibility away from the individual and it's just as intolerant a religion.

Wishbone described how he has to wait for a medical appointment or a 7 hour wait to be x-rayed for an injury and then blames Blair. You have national health--a bureaucracy. Don't ever expect procedures to improve when a government bureau is in charge.

I read recently that over 50% of UK subjects polled are considering emmigrating. Similar polls reveal similar results all over Europe. What does that tell you?

It tells me that people don't believe they can change the system.

It's going to take a lot of courage to fight the islamists.

Turn-

"Wishbone described how he has to wait for a medical appointment or a 7 hour wait to be x-rayed for an injury and then blames Blair."

Just a trivial point of order, mate, but I was answering PMK's singular point regarding Blair twaddling on about health care reforms and reduced waiting times and merely exemplifying one particular experience. Essentially I agree with you though, in that socialism is a main factor in a lot of the problems we see today.