Lal Masjid Update. "‘Banned terror group’ to help defend mosque," from Deutsche Presse-Agentur:
ISLAMABAD: Members of Pakistan’s banned Jaish-e-Mohamed jihadi organisation have come to Islamabad to help defend a radical mosque against any incursion by security forces, a press report said yesterday.
Mufti Abdul Rauf, a leader of the movement that is accused of carrying out numerous terrorist attacks in Indian-controlled Kashmir and other parts of India, arrived in the capital with a number of associates, the Pakistani daily The News reported.
Rauf was last seen at the Lal Masjid, or Red Mosque, on April 17, a day after he was detained by police in the twin city of Rawalpindi but promptly released after a call from an intelligence agency vouching for him as “their man,” the paper said.
That fuelled speculation that the leadership of the mosque and adjoining madrassa enjoys the backing of some highly placed officials, it added.
The complex is at the centre of a prolonged stand-off with the authorities as clerics there encourage many of its 11,000 students to join the fight against foreign troops in Afghanistan, while others strive towards the imposition of Taliban-style law in Islamabad.
Jaish-e-Mohamed is believed to have close links with the Taliban and Al Qaeda and has been held responsible for the December 13, 2001 terrorist attack on the Indian Parliament in New Delhi. Thirteen people died, including five terrorists.
The group’s arrival at the mosque follows threats by the clerics to mount bombings if the government makes any attempt to storm the premises.
[...]
Meanwhile, preparations for a forceful solution to the confrontation were thought to be underway, with large units of army rangers reportedly having been drafted into the city.Another report from Deutsche Presse-Agentur adds:
Islamic students associated with a radical mosque in the Pakistani capital Islamabad have been indoctrinated and trained to mount suicide attacks, a ruling coalition party claimed in a report released Monday.
[...]
Two brothers - Abdul Aziz and Abdul Rashid Ghazi - are thought to be using the female students as human shields to evade any official attempt to end the illegal occupation of land, govern the Red Mosque and its seminaries.
If action were taken against them, the mosque administration planned to kill a few women and children and accuse the government of oppression with a view to justifying suicide attacks, the report alleged.
"using female students as human shields"
These are not men -- these are cowards with facial hair!
They're not "protecting" a mosque.
They're protecting an armory which they call a mosque. That's only reason they object to any inspections to any mosques (in every part of the universe, save that of our elected leaders workplace, this is known as "a really big clue").
The closer we get to the truth, the more they raise hell about it.
Lan Astaslem!
Is there even one, just one islamic nation or community, (i.e. *kosovar albanians*, Chechens, Nigerian Hausa Islmaists, Kashmir Islamics) that are capable of fighting enemies without holding up civilians in the way and blaming in on their opponent? And with other islamics prasing their **courage** while chastisizing the opponents who actually fight back and get the children killed, (a la Israel-Fatah/Hamas and just about every other conflcit involving islamists)?
As far as Pakistan as a genral concept goes, whatever I said before probably covers it--
"Our support for the Pakis WILL get a lot of us massacred when the militant islamic world starts attacking in a united fornt behind Iran and the Saudis and others. We and India need to be unconditionally allied and trusting of each other, we need to be at a point where we can trust each other with our first born children, and while we try to buy the Pakis' favor, it makes it that much harder for us to be able to do so. In any event, supporting the Pakis and the ISI and their army is these days tantamount to supporting, aiding and trying to gain favor with the Sudanese Janjaweed.
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/11692/index.php
www.balochvoice.com/SBF/index.html
These links offer some examples of what Pakis do with our militry and other aid when they're suppossed to to keeping the Taliban and other jihadists in check. These military atrocites are often in fact committed against those groups which are most likely to be stauchly against the taliban and other islamists and have the same potential to become allies as to Sudanese black africans, Biafrans, Iraqi christians and secularist kurds, North African Amazigh, Lebanese Maronites, and others."
Also,
"The interesting thing is, if India and Pakistan would ever just agree to let all the states in India, including kashmir, and all the provinces in pakistan, choose for themselves which country they want to be a part of, India would end up with all its original land plus well over half of pakistan's land. Balochistan, Pak-held kashmir and Sindh would all end up with India.
Granted, it would mean India would end up with new muslim states in the form of balochistan, sindh and PoK, but these are by and large muslims only in the most liberal and nominal sense, and largely pro-indian and pro-american in nature. India would be able to immediately go about de-islamisizing these peoples and making them once again prosperous states, safe for religous minorities, (a prime case being the 1.5 million hindu sindhis still in pakiland and the exiled hindu sindhis). Especially since decades of persecution and massacres have convinced these peoples the idea of "muslim brothers" united as one is just bulls***, a smokescreen used by muslims of a dominant group, i.e. arabs and arabized people like Pak "punjabs" to torture, steal from and kill subjected muslims at will. All while trying to unite them against kuffars to distract them from the problems they cause.
Indians I've talked to have largely confimred this to be true, including the fact that places like Pak-held Kashmir, (esp Northern Areas), Sindh and Balochistan are becoming increasingly pro-India and pro-America, due to ideological similarities between them and India and also due to conflicts with the ISI. The situation with these states has become markedly similar to that in Southern Sudan and Darfur, where non-muslims and very nominal muslims are being genocided and terorized by islamized and throughly arabized peoples. Hence, these provinces should be dealt with the same as with Southern Sudan and Darfur, which won't happen becasue nobody really cares about Sudan and the West STILL thinks Pakiland is and ally, (SIC, SIC, DOUBLE SIC)."
There's never any reason to beleive these so-called *conflicts between Pakis and Jaish-e-Mohamed asre not staged, with the Pakis ultimately in full support of them and other groups. Cut the Pakis from our list of allies for eternity and treat all its components, like Balochistan, Sindh and Northern Areas, just like we should be treating places like Darfur, Iranian (and maybe Iraqi) Kurdistan, Kabyle in Algeria and all others. Exploit the resentments and the suffering and the persectuion of these pro-america, pro-west, muslim in ID but staunchly secularist peoples who simply want to explore and celebrate their heritages even when they're not somehow connected with islamic history. Will they all become open apostates of islam and convert out? Not likely, but that's zero excuse for us to keep standing by watching as they face extermination for not being thoroughly muslim enough.
Interesting take...but you may want to quote a reputable source next time. SPindymedia isn't one.
In Islam, the Muslims want no distinction between religion, and the state. But shouldn't that also extend to; no distinction between religion and military? A Mosque should be an acceptable military target for any state that receives threats from that mosque.
Leave such lovely people to slaughter each other.
'Red' Mosque is aptly named.
"Mosque." I even hate the sound of that word. Rhymes with "wasp." What an ugly word. What a violent and pathetic people.
what a smart pak gov't official should do, is spread the word around that the taliban who was jailed is really an infiltrater for the government forces, and later some 12 year kid will have the chance to saw off his head.
hello there infidels, i have bad news for you, your hero spencer is getting exposed at:
http://www.muslim-responses.com/robert_spencer__jihadwatch_org_
:) more to come soon, but so far we see how little spencer knows about his own un-holy book the bible.
also check out http://www.muslim-responses.com/my_blog
you may like the entries, or maybe not.
Assalamau Laikum all,
I have been reading the comments on this thread and have been disappointed at the lack of knowledge or the significance of what is about to take place....so for the kaffur... here are the highlights.
1) This standoff is the focus of the "war on terror" which the Amerike forced on Pak after 9/11. MUshi was with the Amerike ...or join the stone-age...he chose Amerike...and now he faces possibly an even more dangerous foe.
2) In effect this "war on terror" BROKE the link between the army and the mullahs. This link is what has been running the country for virtually all the time since the birth of Pak. When ever the country has moved forward to aid Afgan/Taliban or fight India...the decisions have been made in tandem...but now the bloody Amerike has broken this link...and the pressure has started to tell within Pak itself...so thanks for nothing Amerike.
3) Islamabad is a city under siege...demonstrations have been going on in some shape or form all over the city....peaceful and otherwise.
4) This fight will shape the destiny of Pak over the coming years and it's outcome will have repercussions all over the world where muslims (Pakistanis in particular)live.
5) There is little doubt that the army will win this battle....but this will only be the start of the war against mullah-cracy...there are some 20,000 madrassas offering education to some 2 millions of pupils. ....i.e. the very survival of Pak as a nation could be at stake over the next couple of years . This is how important this is.
Already in Waristan...army rules by day and mullas by nite...( and no...this is not a nice theme tune).
6) If the mullas win a little..than expect to see some aspects of sharia come in.
7) The global reprecussion may start to be seen soon ...mullahs are not happy with the corrupt Amerike.
8) Lookout for fireworks....I'm keeping my head down ...unless sharia shows up ...in which case I'll try & help through peaceful dawa....I am getting an extra freezer...and stocking up on extra halal meats.
":) more to come soon, but so far we see how little spencer knows about his own un-holy book the bible."
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Isaiah 5:20
ROFL...Murder Cult dude, trying to smear the messenger AFTER the message has already been delivered, received, understood, then passed on is a wee little late on the side of propaganda purposes.
ALL
Do not go to Muslim Responses site from a work PC. The blog owner will be able to see your IP address (and thus discover your company) and target you for harassment
What a disgusting site. But I wouldn't expect anything less. Never comment on that site, people, as it doesn't deserve it and as PapaBear said, risk of harassment and who knows what else when it comes to Muslims.
re: 20,000 madrassas offering education to some 2 millions of pupils
The reason many students go to madrassas is to get free food and housing while studying. Providing this costs a lot of money. Where does the money come from?
What's needed is to discover the sources of financing of the madrassas, and deal with them as enemies. If the funding goes away, the radicial clerics will have to move on to new careers, probably as dietary consultants ("Would you like fries with that?")
"What a disgusting site. But I wouldn't expect anything less. Never comment on that site, people, as it doesn't deserve it and as PapaBear said, risk of harassment and who knows what else when it comes to Muslims."
--
This sounds like a job for...
Yep.
*Surfs over with his hammer*
Robert exposed? More like he exposed You!
Cooked in pig greese. I wear it around my neck!
@Muslim Responses:
Left a "nice" comment for your newly-hatched blog.
Let's see if you can dance.
PS He's got comments queued for review, so it's unlikely anyone will see mine.
BTW, for what it's worth, I think it needs to be discussed what constitutes hatred and what counts as defense of a nation. As far as I'm concerned, the gloves have been off in my house for a long time. I've stopped short of tossing ham sandwiches into mosques, but don't ever expect me to do anything but laugh if I hear of such events. If Americans can burn their own flag, I think Muslim cultists can endure a little honest reprisal. After all, Muslims are the ones murdering our soldiers and innocents in the name of Islam -- why should I coddle you?
I think this will be the topic of debate over at the Anvil today -- can defiance of Islam be fairly coined as a hate crime?
Why you gave me an idea! That is true! What would or could they do when I see them protest they carry their flags of Palestine. I will burn the flag of Palestine. Let's see how far freedom goes!
And Fo- diaviance is hate! Deception is deception without intention! They clerly have intent!
All a mares'nest! Unfortunately they believe it!
Theirs is a hate cime! They have severe punshiment without a court! We all stand back, the book it says in their book! respect them! We don't know what they believe so just respect them! Hutta Hutta! This is our land! You must obey our laws! As we too are forced to believe in the laws of the government and God are separate. Which is hard to do! God said to obey man's laws. God said to obey God's law! If I did that I would be dead! I must comprimise!
Since 9-11 we have been suffering and now we are learning allll about the people that killed us this is F GREAT!
"but I think that madrassa needs to be targeted for carpet bombing under the assumption that ANYONE there is radical and is an enemy of the state."
Totally agree. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused a huge number of casualties of supporters of the Emperor. But saved millions of other Japanese citizens willing to fight to the death and thousands of allied forces in an invasion of Japan.
Since the mullahs are willing to hide behind women and children, and said women and children are willing to be used as shields, the only way to defeat them is total annhialation.
Bomb the mosque and be done with it.
Good example here they are using their own mosque to do such evil! These Holy Places! What logic!!
That has to be at their stupidiy the Americans will not hurt us here, will can kill them though!
Then they come here demanding more respect then they got there. They do this to eachother! It is like they are scattered, like a bunch of schizoids! I don't think they know what they believe!!!!! On the other hand-ya this is where they breed hate! Destroy it! It has already been destroyed. That is not God's house! It steal's people soles!
What Constitutes a Hate-crime Against a Muslim in America (OR Welcome to the Blogosphere)
I am never idle. :)
GPS co-ordinates.
Launch predator drones.
Arm Hellfire missiles.
Press button.
End of problem.
Various quotes and ideas about the current state of Pakistan which Naseem expressed in her post above are lifted directly from a programme about the state of that country broadcast on British television last night:'Dispatches'put together by Ziauddin Sardar,a self-styled "mainstream Muslim intellectual"who opposes violent jihad but is otherwise a bit of a crackpot. In particular,the line about insurgents ruling by night and the government by day, appearing in the documentary and Naseem's post could hardly have been a coincidence.She is in the UK and not in Lahore. Not only that, but her inconsistency in advocating sharia while welcoming the replacement of insane Muslim rules on dealing with rape by rational western practice make me think she is not a single person.
PapaBear
Thanks for the warning - too late for me. I did make the mistake of going there from the previous thread, but I have gone ahead and cleared my search history. Hope it ain't too late, but won't re-visit from my work PC. This evening, though might be a different matter.
Hopefully, someone will bring him to Ali Sina's attention, so that he's taken to the cleaners. He doesn't deserve Robert's time. Just check his section on Christianity - for a site that claims to engage in Muslim-Christian dialog, the main focus of their Christianity page is denying the divinity of Christ.
Point is Spencer knows both - the Christian POV about Christ being divine, and the Muslim POV about him not being divine.
For Naseem and all Muslims:
Muslims keep raising hell on earth and the flames will erupt to put their nuclear power out.
You think America was a problem. America never did mor than poke at you with a finger. You raise hell as you plan on with China then you will find out the lessons of Tibet and millions of dead Chinamen under Mao.
The world is about to change for Islam. Enjoy the inferno you have let loose upon yourselves in the next few years.
Level the place.
That's certainly what they would do if the shoe were on the other foot.
Just level the place and be done with it.
And make sure it's done when their heaviest fire-and-brimstone jihaddi preacher is harranging a full house.
Want martyrdom? Got your martyrdom right here.
Muslim Response,
You have failed unless your target audience is those with no knowledge of the Bible. All of the verses were from the Old Testatment and had a specific time and purpose in mind. That time and purpose is over 20 centruries in the past and therefore not relevant. That differs from the Koran which has, accordinig to the most prominent islamic scholars, not time limit. The website you linked to will only fool those who know nothing of islam or the profit (purposefully mispelled) mohammed (may he burn in hell). You apparently are ignorant of Christianity and Judaism, so please leave them out of your website. Oh, wait, you are trying to fool people into believing the Bible is a violent as the koran, my it be ever desecrated, aren't you? We are on to you. As I said before, those verses from the Bible were for a specific time and place unlike that in the unholy, satanic book the koran.
Karl
Flag burning...
For whoever mentioned burning the Palestinian flag, sorry, I'm too tired and lazy to scroll up at the moment, I would actually recommend burning the saudi flag instead. I've already sent several emails to the State Department to ask that it be banned in the US at governmental functions due to its carrying a religous message. They haven't answered me yet and I doubt they ever will. If the saudi flags weren't so expensive, I'd use them as toilet paper.
Karl
You shall know a tree by its fruit and the muhammadans by their actions:
Two brothers - Abdul Aziz and Abdul Rashid Ghazi - are thought to be using the female students as human shields to evade any official attempt to end the illegal occupation of land, govern the Red Mosque and its seminaries.
If action were taken against them, the mosque administration planned to kill a few women and children and accuse the government of oppression with a view to justifying suicide attacks, the report alleged.
"Jaish-e-Mohamed jihad"
Forgive me, but that really made me laugh!!
Muhammad Jihad!!
Naseem...It's spelled 'America', not 'Amerike'.
And there is nothing 'bloody' about it...