Report: Pakistani government accepts Lal Masjid demands

OT here:

I just got back tonight from Dr. John Lewis' lecture on state-sponsered Islamic-Totalitarianism at George Mason University. There were countless police officers around the building providing security. Needless to say an entire mob mentality broke out as "demonstrators" in the audience disrupted the entire event. Islamofacist groups and their marxist dhimmi associates hurled invectives, howled, and spat as if in a possessed frenzy. The professor and his supporters, much to their credit, behaved with complete restraint and respect for different viewpoints during the Q&A session. The same absolutely cannot be said of his opponents. So much for tolerance and diversity. Their attempts to disrupt and shut down the talk were a disrespectful, uncivilized display of hate that supported the argument that you cannot reason with or appease this kind of enemy.

There goes the neighborhood...

Pakistan is a member of the nuclear club.
The countdown to the End draweth nigh.

Let the Sharia Slaughter begin-Demon Allah is panting for more torture,head hacking and BLOOD!!
Pakistan is already in the Stone Age-maybe only
way further back is to Age of Dinosaurs. And we know what happened to 'em...

Assalamau Laikum Peoples,

I know that you have a biased view of countries with sharia...but it does not have to be like this.

Sharia can work, Pak needs to show this...a phased approach working with the government...to have this mix of sharia + democracy...and then swapping specific laws one at a time if necessary...and having a bedding-in period...1 year probably ...and then the next one can be implemented.

As you can see.... negotiations are making progress.

Pak has to make this work...only then can we move to bring this splendid light to the West.

The only splendid light that the West can expect from certain elements in the East would not be a guiding light as you suggest.....more of the sort that's followed by a rather loud bang.

I can only hope that the next president realizes that we have no Mohammedan allies against jihad. Musharraf rolled ove rather rather quickly, and all too co-operatively.

Naseem, that splendid light you spoke of probably will be the result of nuclear fission brought to you by your wonderful Mohammedamn leaders. Don't worry, you will not hear the bang.

Posted by: Naseem at April 25, 2007 05:01 AM

as a girl I would think you would have problems with those laws what if your husband or your son dicides to kill you and just says it is because you have shamed the family name??

yep he can do this under mulsum law at no cost to him?/

of all the people who are trying to sell us a cow when it really is a pig you should know better wasn't it you whos husband took his own sons wife for his own and you or your son could do nothing??

after all you selling pig meat what is the crime for that under mulsum law is it hae a hand cut off or is it a death plenty??

shame shame shame on you!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, SIGHT, WISDOM AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
I want to know if waldo was involed in the poisoning of the dogs? Remember a fews years back there was some cleric who told the mulsums they had to get rid of their dogs because having a dog as a pet was against mulsum law??

If I remember right cross got some gold stars on that one?

Go back to sleep Naseem.

Personally I love the idea of your country stepping back in time. It will after all hurt you more than it will hurt me.

Has for the fact that the mad mullahs will get their hands on some nukes, so what? Anybody foolish enough to play the mutually assured destruction game with the west is surely on a road to oblivion. The west has too much land and far too many toys for the direct action approach to succeed. Even the maddest of mullahs know this.

If Naseem and its ilk had a brain they would be on here making nice while they colonised our countries through the back door, but they can’t do that using a doctrine of hate that demands atrocities as recruiting tools.

One may suspect that the 'splendid light' that the Muhammedan poster above supports, is not generated by electricity.

Muhammedanism is the end of all light, including the electric variety....

"Democracy is nothing, but counting of heads. It cannot differentiate between good and bad people, as in this system the vote of a devout Muslim equals the vote of a frail Muslim

Counting heads? He says democracy is nothing but counting heads?

At least with democracy those heads that are counted are attached to bodies no matter if the people are considered "good" as in "they see things the way I see them; or "bad" they (poor bastards) disagree with me.

The same can not be said of shariah.

Dr. John Lewis' lecture on state-sponsered Islamic-Totalitarianism at George Mason University

Sounds like what is happening with PBS and the "islam vs islamofascism" report with PBS cancelled because it was offensive to some radical clerics in the US.

The best part? All of YOU paid for this censorship of free express through YOUR tax dollars that were given to the Center for Public Broadcasting!

Isn't that a big laugh?

Naseem:

We'll remember you shilling for Sharia in Pakistan when we read of the intensified persecution of Amadiyans that will surely come with the even greater empowerment of the Lal mosque mentality.

Naseem,

If Pakistan can develop a stable society that keeps itself peaceful for 1,000 years, then I'll think about whether or not sharia is a good system. Let's see what your system's got. I'm betting it's nothing but more death and destruction, as the 'good Muslims' rid themselves of the 'frail Muslims'.

Basically, put up or shut up. You flap your gums a lot, now let's see what happens when your party has some actual power.

Why would any self-respecting female want Sharia? Do they really want to be all wrapped up and chained to the Qur'an, to be beaten at will, to be divorced on a whim, to be killed for a transgression, to be denied legal equality, to be used sexually on demand, to be a concubine instead of a wife, to practise modesty out of fear? Don't be dhimmi-witted.

muslims are so brainwashed, the more misery sharia produces, the more their clerics demand it. to those with any sense of logic, is "sharia" was good, why do so many want to run from it and it can only be implemneted by force, where as "Democracy" people run towards it, even from sharia cesspoolstans. NASeems you are so brainwhased l do not think you will ever wake up from your nightmare created by islam. go back to sleep as someone else posted.

jewdog,

I think they really think that Heaven and Hell exist and that by debasing themselves in these ways, they earn a spot in Heaven.

I hate Islam because as a man, I would feel debased doing these things to women. Strip away all the cultural relativism in the world and the question posed to me by Islam is "Is this how you think a man should act toward women?" I say no, and if the men who would force me to act that way toward women want to fight about it, that's just the way it'll have to be.

"Democracy is nothing, but counting of heads. It cannot differentiate between good and bad people,

If the imams get to decide who are the "good" versus "bad" people, then the imams get to rule -- which is the whole point. The imams cannot tolerate allowing the people to have authority over how the country is to be run.

And the imams are right that allowing such would be un-Islamic. The Qur'an and Sunnah specifies an autocratic Caliphate as being the Islamic form of government (and yes, Naseem, the Caliph is supposed to listen to advisors -- however he is not bound to follow the advice).

Islam cannot tolerate a Western-style Republic, where a non-Muslim saying bad things about Islam is just as accepted as a muslim's saying bad things about other religions, where anyone is free to leave Islam without legal penalties, and where the legal status of Muslims and non-Muslims is exactly equal

Democracy cannot differentiate between good and bad people and islam cannot differentiate between good and bad immams....come to think of it, neither can I.

Assalamau Laikum all,

Sharia is important. It is an enabler that will allows Maulvis to provide very important services for us folk…they will shape and make you who you can be…good wuslims.

The (normally poor) maulvi whom you are trying to revile is the person who made your mother lawful for your father.

It is he who will chant the azaan in your ear and breath faith into you.

And it is he who will say your funeral prayer when you die.

What can you give him in return?” At least the pride to be ruled via sharia.

Look, during my forty plus years on this earth I have been under the impression that in Islam you don’t need a practising maulvi for anything, that you can do all these things yourselves or get friends to do it, or ignore it….but you can not ignore it can you?

And what if your friend doesn’t have a beard …in this case he cannot be a maulvi…. Your efforts will be wasted….sharia can fix these by all mens having a beard…..

I know that some maulvis cannot read/write but they can be quite proficient and successful in the performance of priestly duties.

Some of the imams of Lahore masjids are real gems and it’s a pleasure to talk to them, Ahmadis womens can talk to maulvis through purdah…no problems there.

All you are doing is focus on the negatives….look at the massive positives.

Pak has to make this work...only then can we move to bring this splendid light to the West.

Posted by: Naseem

--------------------------------------------------

Do you really believe this crap or do you just say it to get a reaction? splendid light? like beheading? stoning? , robbing the human soul of the joy of music and art ? yes splendid stuff indeed. Listen up Naseem , Arabs , Persians and all your fellow Mooslims may need need to have absolute control forced upon every aspect of theire lives because they have tribal bloodlust mentalities and cannot for any reason govern themselves , but us civilized peoples in the west can think and act for ourselves. we control our own destiny's not Allah. we will never accept your cults violent inhumane ways and nature. get over it, and yourself. it will never happen. keep trying to force it on free peoples and see the end result. you won't like the results Naseem, i guarantee that!.

"'Democracy is nothing, but counting of heads. It cannot differentiate between good and bad people, as in this system the vote of a devout Muslim equals the vote of a frail Muslim,' [Maulana Abdul Aziz, head of the Lal Masjid] said."
-- from the article above

Yet Bush and Cheney and Rice keep singing the praises of not one, not two, but three "elections" in Iraq. They apparently think that when, in January 2005, the Shi'a went out and voted as they were instructed to vote, by those in the three main parties animated by Shi'a Islam -- SCIRI, Da'wa, and the new force of Moqtata al-Sadr -- voted in all their purple-thumbed majesty, voted as Shi'a Arabs for Shi'a Arabs and Shi'a Arab domination, they were "practicing democracy." They appearently think that the Sunnis, on the other hand, who did not vote in that first election, but then begrudgingly took part in the later two. The Sunnis were no more, and no less, for the "democracy" that the electoral process supposedly represented (as Bush keeps hallucinating, and as Rice, now a little quieter on the subject, so often did) than the Shi'a -- it is just that knowing they would lose (if they had been more numerous than the Shi'a they would have participated more energetically) they had no desire to take part. For both sides, Sunni and Shi'a, know that the true spirit that makes modern democracy work, the spirit of political compromise, is lacking in Islam -- a belief-system that worships might (the "strong horse") and encourages aggression, and views the universe in manichean terms: not light and dark, but Believer and Infidel, Victor and Vanquished. And that attitude naturally carries over -- how could it not? -- to the attitudes toward others, perhaps even other sects within Islam -- and the effects of that can and will be seen in Iraq.

Then there was that referendum on that much-ballyhooed newly-written Iraqi constitution. It was not, and those who composed it were not, at all reminiscent of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, though Condoleeza Rice found apparent parallels. It was written, after much delay, in a few weeks (see Ali Allawi's just-published book about the Writing of the Constitution). There were a few local wise men, and a few foreign fools (notably Noah "After Jihad" Feldman, the kind of "expert" on Islam only Roy Mottahedeh and the Times Sunday Magazine editors could take seriously) but it hardly mattered: the Constitution will mean whatever those who inherit Iraq will want it to mean. The rule of law does not exist, if by law we mean man-made law. For the Iraqi Constitution itself makes clear that it is not supreme. In the United States, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, for nothing deemed "unconstitutional" by judges, appointed for life and not elected, can stand. But the Iraqi Constituion says that no law, nor any provisions of the Constitution itself, can stand if they contradict the "law of Islam" -- that is, the Shari'a. What in our country would be thrown out if declared "unconstitutional" , in the New Iraq, can be thrown out if declared contrary to the Law of Islam -- that is, contrary to the Shari'a.

The belief in the possiblility, even the ease of transplanting "democracy" to Iraq ignores the nautre of Islam, and how mere mortals, Believers, are not the sources of political legitimacy. The source of political legitimacy is Islam and only Islam. If the ruler is Muslim, he must be obeyed. Islam encourages submission -- from mental submission to the submission of the Muslim subject to the Muslim ruler -- because Islam is based on the idea of submission of men to Allah, to the expressed will of Allah to be found in the Qur'an, and further interpreted by the Sunna (consisting essentially of what is written down in the Hadith and the Sira).

Bush can't admit or recognize this. Partly it is that he is not very intelligent. Partly it is that the enormity of the error is so great, that at this point neither he, nor Cheney, nor their loyalists (and there should be an epuration of the so-called "conservative media" of such loyalists, who have done so much damage by stickinig with, defending years beyond the time they could plausibly do so, an absurd policy that, far from weakening Islam, has only weakened and distracted the Western world fromm concentrating its efforts on checking the main instruments of Jihad -- the money weapon, Da'wa, and demographic conquest).

But those who recognize that the mistakes in Iraq were those both about Islam (the failure to identify Islam as the enemy needing to be divided and demoralized), and about Iraq (the failure to recognize in Iraq those fissures that could be exploited, by leaving Iraq once Saddam Hussein's regime collapsed, both sectarian and ethnic), deserve a closer hearing.

The record of all the pundits and commentators can easily be found on-line. It is all there.

Who was right -- and who was wrong? Look for yourself.

Looks like Pakistani Muslims are finally going to get that "Islamic Bomb" they so wanted under their control years ago.

I predicted before that Musharraf had 5 years in power before being assassinated? I retract that.

I now give him 3 years before he's either dead or under U.S. protection here at home.

Un-islamic,
I agree. Look islamists, you need to be very careful not to stray from islamic/koranic practices. All of the recent successes have been made possible by strict adherence to islamic law. If you falter, if you appear to alla as not following the right road, the true path, he may turn on you and strike you down. For victory to be possible you must advocate jihad, you must strive for sharia everywhere you go and to everyone you meet. I noticed that girls were being taught at this school, are you sure you want that to continue doing that, are you sure you want to risk the wrath of alla? Is it not forbidden, the teaching of girls and women? So remember, in order for you to march forward to see sharia worldwide you must advocate islamic principles at all times and that means no more music stores, no more barber shops or disco-techs. Out with the book stores the internet cafes and mixed gender swimming pools. You must free yourself from the bondage of all infidel creations and practices, to keep any of them, to wander from the one true path is to risk destruction.

Naseem:

You accuse us of focusing on the negative and ignoring the good in sharia, but I just can't get over a 17 year old Iranian girl being hanged by a judge (after carrying her appeal all the way to the Iranian Surpeme Court) for the heinous crime of being raped by a cab driver.

Putting the good parts of sharia aside (women being beaten lightly, 2 for 1 testimony in court, 2 for 1 inheritance etc. etc.), that alone tells me that islam is pure evil.

Read the new testament sometime Naseem and you will see the true light of peace.

Naseem cannot see Sharia is Evil because he/she is consumed by the false arrogance and pride of Islam. One only has to look at the state of the Islamic world to see that Islam , well , it just ain't that great!

The M.E is a disaster and everywhere else you have dictators and Religious Fascists running the show. They would have us believe that it is in fact US who has kept the poor Muslim down , but don't be fooled . Islam has had 1400 years practice at turning back the clock and at living in the dark ages.they just wish to share this Heaven on earth with us. LOL

no Thanks

Naseem,

May your daughter who protested Sharia find a way out of Islam and the hell hole called Pakistan (land of pure s***). And may you see the light as well, but frankly I doubt that at this point.

Note to GW, Pakistan is lost as an ally in the WOT, cut of funding now.

Several days about there was a large protest against this mosque and its plans to impose sharia at the point of a sword, or, suicide bombering. Pakistan is deeply troubled and benighted by Islam, but there is a coterie of thinking people who are holding the country together, and they constitute Musharraf's supporters. Even if the death cultists succeeded in fulfilling their religious imperative and killed him, the country would not automatically fall into their hands. Or at least we can hope. Sadly Musharraf is too weak to crack down on them. Their mosque should be annihilated, as an example. There is a time and a place for a swift, decisive shedding of blood. The founders of Islam understood this perfectly. This is why, in spite of their inability to produce anything but misery, they are successful.

After Musharreff seem to be a little helpful in the beginning of the Afghan search of Taliban and Bin, Bush let Musharreff pull out his nukes after all this time for he had co-operated!-not fully. He was also abled to sell alot of things in U.S. Musharreff not letting us in there was a mistake for him and us. Now he has lost and so have we here. A new war on the front now with our ok'ed nuke! Now they have Nukes. Pissis me off like alot of this sht. Here goes another mistake from day 1 for this is not how to do it! Shows you they have been hiding out here and are now in control! Have been! Polosi maybe it shows you she went to wrong place! Why didn't she go here? If she is concerned with Afghanistan? or bin? still can, she has first knowledge! jazschhh... Polosi working on buzzards for cars so you don't back over your kids! when she gets done. she is not going to do anything! daa... how can Musharreff accept such a law? So barbaric? He is going to revert back to stoning of women buried to their head. No judge or jury just set her on fire riding down the street when all the men are done raping her! A bunch of sick puppies!

"Sadly Musharraf is too weak to crack down on them. Their mosque should be annihilated, as an example."

But,Quijybo, as you say "Musharraf is too weak", thus the Pakistan Gov't has capitulated and as an ally is lost.

Musharraf has been brought to heel!

ask yourself why iran wants to own Iraq??

Well I hear that iran is running out of oil? well of course there is also the water in Iraq and all that farm land and with their unemploment at over 11% looks like the natives are getting restless?

all nasseem is trying to do is boost the BS coming out of iran what was it that jerk said the other day about creating a herashima or something??

so this shows that nasseem does work for iran after all!!

You see FREEDOM does matter and the self appointed leaders of the mulsums are losing control so will??

Part of the American Tribe

Sharia for muslims, freedom for Infidels. They and we deserve nothing less.

A Paki cleric said, "Democracy is nothing, but counting of heads. It cannot differentiate between good and bad people ... ."

It's a pity that bush & his cadre of neocon advisers didn't grasp this simple truth. By all appearances, he still doesn't get it. What an imbecile. And I voted for the idiot ... TWICE. When I reflect on that I get the same wrenching feeling in my stomach that I got when Enron imploded on me. It's a sad reflection on our state of affairs when a stone-age adversary has in some important ways a better understanding of the world than the self-styled leader of the free world. But don't worry; he is, after all, the Decider.

Naseem,

YOu are a perfect exsample of the idiocy and ignorance that is islam. Please keep posting every where possible so that those who still believe islam is a religion of peace may see the truth. I am sick to death of people saying "the MAJORITY of muslims are peacefull". This is an out right fallacy, a lie, the majority of muslims live in sharia dominated countries and are far from peacefull. Your death cult will cause even more destruction and chaos untill people open their eyes to the threat of islam. Untill we recognize this we are all in for more of mohameds (piss be upon him) bullshit death cult.

“I think many of us still fail to comprehend the extent of the threat posed by radical Islam, by Jihad. Understandably, we focus on Afghanistan and Iraq. Our men and women are dying there. We think in terms of countries, because we faced countries in last century’s conflicts. But the Jihad is much broader than any one nation or nations. For radical Islam, there is one conflict and one goal — replacing all modern Islamic states with a caliphate, destroying America and conquering the world.”
-Romney

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTU3NDhlMTllOWY3NzZmOGQyMjA5OWYzNzNmZDQ1OTI

And what if your friend doesn’t have a beard …in this case he cannot be a maulvi…. Your efforts will be wasted….sharia can fix these by all mens having a beard…..
Posted by: Naseem

I've already got a beard, a red one as it happens and I don't need to apply any of that henna dye as the poor hapless Moroccans do. (Ali Baba had a red beard and I was subjected to many taunts about this during my last visit)
I'm trying to get it to the correct length which Is roughly eight incha allah.....

Satan began his rebellion against God because he desired to be in God's place. Now in Iran, Pakistan, and a few other Islamic countries he is getting his wish. He is sitting on his throne in Mecca, pretending to be God, deceiving millions upon millions, and directly rules any country that embraces Sharia. May the true God destroy Islam and liberate those who have been enslaved by it.

Yes, IAmFree, Ezekiel's war is just around the corner. Then there will be no more real issues with Russia or the Arabs. Then it will just be between America and China. Israel survives!

Naseem --

Sorry to sound like a broken record, as you've heard me say this before; but you need to turn from Islam and follow after the Truth. Get out while you still can!!

Assalamau LAikum Champ (my Kafur sister),

What truth are you talking about?..christianity?

Look , you peoples hid the fact that he was not born of the virgin mary or that he was a single child or was married with children...is this the truth you mean?

The shadow boxing with Musharaff is almost over, which will create many more problems for the UK than the US. Just consider what proportion of UK residents are from, or have family in, Pakistan - which is why the UK is urgently trying to contain the view that this is a world war and instead portray it as a few police actions against some very naughty boys.

Those 100's of 1000's of M&Ms ['Mad'rass moron's] from Pakistan and elsewhere are the foot soldiers of their Saudi financial backers in this 3rd Jihad. Each is prepared, and in fact enthusiastic, to die as a suicide bomber and this army being trained right now to follow their leader's directions against non-muslims around the world, whether in the UK, the US, France, Indonesia, Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, Thailand, Russia etc etc etc. While the Iranian nuclear program is a worry and should be attacked, the Shi-ites are still only a small minority of muslims worldwide.

Any of our leaders not publicly discussing the dangers we face, and the hard work that needs to be undertaken to overcome this, deserve to be voted out at their next election. They'll be remembered as Chamberlain's Successors when the history of this time is written. When it comes time to vote, vote for leaders who are honest about what needs to be done. This isn't a fight we asked for, but if we're going to have it, there is no alternative but victory and that starts with being upfront about who we're fighting and why.

I suggest a multi-faceted approach to the problems we face.

1: Our Govts should be removing any and all application of Sharia around the world and taking active steps to destroy its foothold in those countries which have already implemented some or all of it.
Sharia = sexual and non-muslim apartheid, so treat it like apartheid. Just as we took steps to force South Africa to give up Apartheid, we should be imposing sanctions (economic, social, immigration, military etc) on any country which has full (Saudi Arabia) or partial (Malaysia) Sharia.
Encourage Amnesty International and major international women's NGOs to recognise that Sharia should be identified publicly as a discriminatory belief system which should be erased from the planet. While the Left can be muddle headed about many of the world's problems, there's nothing wrong with getting them to help in the fight where we can.

2: Our Govts and NGOs should be encouraging women's groups in Islamic communities/countries in concrete steps to progress female education, independence and sexual freedom. The more they experience freedom, the less likely they'll bring up their kids with the 7th century mindset. This includes action to make it illegal to force or pressure girls to marry anyone, or to travel out of their country for the purpose of an arranged waiting.
Don't underestimate the sexual dysfunction driving islamic societies towards violence. Islamic Jihadis are no different from other historical groups that have used the denial and deliberate channeling of sexual desire to achieve control over their populations.

3: Our Govts need to destroy the official and unofficial action against Apostates which allows countries like Malaysia to pretend to be modernising but instead carries out barbaric denials of freedom of thought straight out of he pages of '1984'.
Who would have believed that almost 20 years after the fall of the Berlin wall we'd be seeing people locked up in psychiactric prisons for daring to believe something different from what the Govt wants them to believe - Malaysia now is no different from Russia at the height of the Cold War).
Take steps to publicise every single instance of threats of any kind to islamic apostates whether in islamic or non-islamic countries. Make it illegal in non-islamic countries, with very heavy jail sentences, for threats of any kind to be made against someone giving up their religion, and fund the police action to follow this through.

4. Speak out - Use the net to blog, discuss, network etc, especially when Jihadi or Dhimmi activity is occurring. There is so much happening which is not reported in the mainstream media but more and more people are realising this and starting to use sites like this to keep up to date.
We won't win this by fighting amongst ourselves between left and right, or Democrat vs Republican. While it can be annoying to hear and see so many Dhimmi's in the media and elsewhere, just keep publicising the facts about Jihadi activity to friends, family, workmates, neighbours. If you do it slowly, carefully and continually (but without pushing it down their throats), then eventually they'll realise, just as many of us have, that Islam is a little different to other religions and requires special handling.

5. Publicise those flaws in Islamic theology so that intelligent muslims (and there are a lot), continue to question their faith. That doesn't they'll all leave it (after all, there are still lots of intelligent people who hold faiths of many kinds that don't meet all scientific tests), but it should cause a reassessment in their own mind about whether they should continue to provide unquestioning and blind loyalty to a doctrine so intellectually flawed.
Roberts books are a good place to start, but there are also those websites pointing out its scientific flaws. Just as Galileo's example is used as a reason why the Catholic Church is unsuited to the role of political power, so a continual publication of the infallible text's faults should lead to more apostates.

6. Build up our militaries and encourage the democracies to stick together. Take very strong action when attacked. The history of Jihad activity from Tours, to Vienna, to Lepanto, to the Spanish Reconquista, to Greek Independence, to Afghanistan, is that only resolute action will stop or delay them and that we will fail and fall like the Byzantines if we remain divided.
I suggest 'the Chicago way' when it comes to dealing with attacks - escalating the response every time. If they're so keen to die, lets help them on their way.
How many people question why the US and UK had multiple hostages taken in Lebanon during the 80s and yet the Russians only had one? Proof that resolute action achieves results.
We can agonise afterwards about whether every battle or defensive action was justified, but we have to win the war first to have the luxury of post-victory agony sessions.

7. Start identifying and shaming those who lay the psychological groundwork for the terrorists in our own countries.
Expose and publicly shame those who praise suicide bombers of civilian victims, or who misuse the word 'Martyr' by using it to refer to these cowards.
Similarly, as others have suggested, start publicising the names of those arrested/deported for terrorist or jihadi actions or support and publicise which mosque they were associated with.
Just as the FBI used to spy/record communist activity during the Cold War, so our govts now needs to be recording and reviewing the speeches read out at Mosques, in both Arabic and English.
The school books provided to students at Islamic schools need to be reviewed and amended if required. Would we have let the Soviet Union to set up schools in all our countries during the Cold War to teach young children to hate our Governments, our belief systems and to work towards their downfall? No, so why are we letting the same thing happen now with the Jihadis?

I was going to check out he coffee shops in Detroit they get al-jajerra. I want to see what the heck is going on in our country and how these people accept me. I also was thinking of going into a "mosque" and checking it out! It is in a place of town I never go!

As predicted, Jihad had now evolved into more complex arenas from the single Cho to national Jihad.

President Musharrif is now exposed as completely led by the radicals in Pakistan who are betraying him.
If this was Saudi Shira in set up, it could be controlled but in Pakistan it is Taliban in nature with an overt Kashmir twist which means there is a great possibility of a nuclear exchange with India.

When the nuclear strikes come from the "getting out of Iraq policy", this President or the next must as Sam Cohen advocated hitting the hinterlands of Pakistan to negate their bases of operations.

Naseem,
So, When do you get your bomb belt?

'Peoples'

I know it's a slow day, but can we avoid making this thread all about Naseem's wet dreams?

Like Waterdragon mentioned, we should keep her sentiments in mind the next time we read about 'Bhai Ashraf' or some other Ahmadiyas being murdered.

why can't mulsums be more like this when they protest instead of blowen up things give a little eye candy??

http://www.mosnews.com/images/g/s148.shtml
"KFC Tortures Chicks" : Animal Rights Activists in Bikini
Created: 03.08.2006
Animal rights activists wearing bright yellow bikinis locked themselves in a cage in front of a Moscow KFC fast food restaurant to protest cruel treatment of chickens.

BETTER READ THE WHOLE THING PICTURES AND EVERYTHING!!!

OH yea they can't burkas in a cage is normal??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

Cathy,
Mayne they will break out the bikinis for the halal protest!! Wouldn't that be lovley?

What truth are you talking about?..christianity?

Look, you peoples hid the fact that he was not born of the virgin mary or that he was a single child or was married with children...is this the truth you mean...

Not to disrupt a perfectly wonderful polemic disputation, but Nasseem dear, your facts are flat out wrong.

Whoever taught you that the claim about Jesus not having been born of the virgin mary is incorrect

As to Jesus having been an only child -- the evidence Biblical references do not address the issue at all; the extra-Biblical references and commentary argue both ways depending on how you interpret the phrase "brothers and sisters."

There is NO credible evidence either in the traditional Christian Bible, the gnostic Bible, or in secular history that Jesus was ever married.

So, if you are staying with islam because you think these things which you apparently attribute to Jesus are ture; I can assure you that they are not -- and this is according to most credible scholarship available.

BTW, you never did tell me why you as an islamic accept Jesus as one of your "prophets" on one hand, but then disbelive everything your prophet taught to his diciples about himself and his self-proclaimed reasons for being here in the first place.

Why then, do you not believe him, if Jesus is, as islam claims, one of their own "prophets?"

You people even go so far as to append "PBUH" after the name Jesus -- the Greek form of a VERY JEWISH name.

Go figure!

With allies like a sharia-run nuclear-armed state, who needs enemies?

Seriously, when is Bush & Co. going to realize that ISLAM IS NOT OUR FRIEND?

Bush's idiocy just seems to be digging us into this hole we're in deeper and deeper, with no plans to slow or, god forbid, stop.

The Iraq policy is a disaster for this very reason. Now we have a nuclear armed (50+) Islamic state with sharia and with many former Taliban fighters within its ranks. The nightmare is now true no matter who claims to be in charge of Pakistan. We have no plans to deal with this situation and we have hords of U.S. troops in Iraq wasting time when they should be deployed to Western Pakistan and wasting the enemy. Not democracy projects but a kin to "Sherman's March to the Sea". To attack the enemy and crush him then waste the land to make it impossible for people to use it to attack your foward bases in Afganistan. Every so many years return and do it again.

Iraq is now not a mortal threat to the US. They will not have nukes anytime soon. It will be a civil war no doubt but who cares. Pakistan however will hand out what they have (already doing it now) to every Islamist nut in the world. They will get into it with India and we will have millions dead.

I hope the people who continue to support Democracy Iraq remember this when a major U.S. city goes up in nuclear flames. That it will no doubt be a nuke produced not in Iraq but instead will be produced in Pakistan. We could spend 1 more year in Iraq or 10 and it will not change that fact.

walterc said

Note to GW, Pakistan is lost as an ally in the WOT, cut of funding now.

Of course I agree with you, but that's not how this will be interpreted by those who actually make the funding decisions: Musharraf is in danger, he needs our help more than ever. We need to support him with greater funding. We need to strengthen his position by sending more state-of-the-art weaponry to Pakistan. We have to stick by our "staunch allies", so that we can bring more Islamic nations to our side (as long as we continue increasing funding to them too). Up is down, left is right.

Naseem lives in the UK: she posted specific quotes, and gave the argument put forward, in such detail that she must have been taking notes, from a programme broadcast on the 23rd April, the following day (24th). Unless channel 4's Dispatches is broadcast simultaneously in Lahore she must be in this country (probably some guy in a Muslim drop in centre in Bradford). I wouldn't be surprised if he was even pretending to be an Ahmadiyya for dawa reasond only - such a sect would be more palatable to infidels and there would be no embarrassing jihad theology to explain.

Naseem

You remind me so much of left wing liberal thinking..

You really don't get what this means for you.

How sad...

Oh well you will soon find out Ahmadi.

Not democracy projects but a kin to "Sherman's March to the Sea". To attack the enemy and crush him then waste the land to make it impossible for people to use it to attack your foward bases in Afganistan. Every so many years return and do it again.

Therein is the problem. Generals like Sherman believed in "winning" wars.

"Winning" wars has become a doctrine of "containment of the enemy;" "degrading of the enemies capacity and resources;" and "battlefield management."

This has been the case since the Korean War -- and is a fallacious UN doctrine in whose world view, sovereignity is only vouchsafed under its authority; and "winning wars" is an unacceptable doctrine praticed by "rouge nations" that do not function under the "rule of law."

We need to get back to basics -- first confess to the world that we are a free, independent, soverign nation governed by the people; the rest will follow from there.

However, I am not convinced that this will ever happen; and speaking as one who has "served in harms way" the so-called "nation" as it is evolving is rapidly reaching the point where it is no longer worth perserving.

This needs to change!

While we're at changing things -- lets start cleaning up the damn VA hospitals in this country!

Is that asking too much? Or would we rather spend tax money on better things like, bribing corrupt Saudi family members?

I just sent a 2-page letter to Bush the gist of which is "STOP MUSLIM IMMIGRATION TO THE U.S. NOW!

Everyone here should get out pen and paper and spend a few minutes writing to our under-advised- on-the-subject-of-Islam President. Address: The White House!

No greater darkness than Islam. Hi Nasseem!!!

Naseem loves islam and sharia so much she/he/it does not even live in an islamic country... they say actions speak louder than words.

Untill the rest of the world wakes up, we can not do what must be done and "Sherman march". The PC police wil have no of it till its too late. We need a money bags to build a merc force and wage jihad on the terrorist countries and see how they like it. Only naked force will stop islam, no amount of negotiation will work.

Witness,

Be sure to remind Nasseem about Sura 3:47, which implies that Mary WAS a virgin:

"She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!"

Cheers,

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

I hope the people who continue to support Democracy Iraq remember this when a major U.S. city goes up in nuclear flames. That it will no doubt be a nuke produced not in Iraq but instead will be produced in Pakistan. We could spend 1 more year in Iraq or 10 and it will not change that fact.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at April 25, 2007 02:07 PM

WELL being that your democrats are against missile defence?

I recall after G.W. was elected in 2001 he wanted a missile defence and the democrats cried OH NO??

I am sick of you people who say go here go there but have no balls to finish the job!!

Iraq was a threat paying bombers and in 1993 the first WTC bombing in the courts in 2000 ruleing put Iraq behind it remember ramise joseff I do. I also remember those rockets trying to shoot down our plans in what was it called the no fly zone..
I also have seen those in the UN caught in the oil for food.

Yes the democrats don't want to to pay for missile defence??

you sound like a mulsum who hates real FREEDOM short skirts forever

And those rockets fired at our planes in the no fly zone violated the cease fire thus we were in a defacto state of war durring Clinton era yet he choose to ignore it.

@wallyUK

I've suspected Naseem is a fake for a long time. I don't even read its posts. Waste of time.

Naseem

Even the unholy Koran acknowledges that Jesus was born of a virgin, so you obviously don't even know what your own religion believes, but then Islam likes it when its followers are ignorant.

Jesus had four (technically half) brothers who were the children of Joseph and Mary (James, Judas, Joseph and Simon, none of whom were amongst His apostles, though His brothers believed in Him after His resurrection and two of them - - Judas and James - - were inspired of God to write documents that are now part of the Bible.) He also had an unknown number of sisters. Matthew 13: 55 & 56

There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus was ever married; the current flap is an intentional attempt of deception by those who wish to change Christianity into a goddess worship religion (and don't worry, the goddess worshipers will be coming after Islam too.)

Naseem --

You asked, "Christianity?"

Yes! Compare the life of Jesus to Mohammad and you too will see that Christ is the Truth.

What is a "kafur sister?" You call me that all the time -- so I have to ask.

Peace!

Naseem --

OK -- how Jesus was born is an important question, one that I may or I may not be able to convince you of; but how He lived is an easier question to answer/to prove if you simply read the Bible. Look at how Jesus lived by reading the four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

And like I said in my above post, compare Jesus' life to Mohammad -- they are night and day.

Catherine said

I am sick of you people who say go here go there but have no balls to finish the job!!

What exactly is "the job", and in what way is it not finished? No WMD's? Check. Saddam and his sons gone? Check. Elections? Check. What is left to be accomplished, what needs to happen for "the job" to be done?

Without specifically Ad hom any one certain person, the murder cult is a plainly stupid concerning Jesus. Saying He was born of a virgin and calling Him the Messiah makes absolutely no sense from their perspective. To say these things about Him means Jesus fulfills the Torah Messianic prophecies and is the Hebrew God's [YHWH not "allah"

If Pakistan can develop a stable society that keeps itself peaceful for 1,000 years, then I'll think about whether or not sharia is a good system. Let's see what your system's got......

venividivici:

What exactly are you comparing Pakistan to? What society has had 1,000 years of peace?
The Christian reformation was only four centuries ago and that was not peaceful. Europe had close to two thousand years of competing empires. Has a single century gone by without a war, ever?

Isn't the real problem that Pakistan and most of the Muslim world is still broken into tribes? Two or more tribes can exist within the same lines on a map but that doesn't make them a nation, no matter how much we in the outside world like to pretend they are.

special_guest

I wonder why the brain dead Dems don't ask that simple question - what's the goal that hasn't been achieved?

Pakistan is a member of the nuclear club.
The countdown to the End draweth nigh.

Posted by: nberio

My thoughts exactly when reading this post. I've been saying Pakistan is the biggest terrorist country on earth, she now took one more step towards hell.

Maulana Abdul Aziz, the chief cleric of the controversial Lal Masjid said: "Democracy is nothing, but counting of heads."

********

Someone should have reminded the dear Maulana that at least under Democracy, the heads being counted are usually attached to the reast of the body of those countee.

Posted by: special_guest at April 25, 2007 04:11 PM

and why do we have troops in S.Korea??

why did we stay in europe after we stopped hitler??

Don't let the real world get in the way of your thinking?

Infidel Pride --

Hey, what is the name of that website you and Catherine started? Do you still have it?

Oops...not Catherine, I mean Caroline (sorry).

Assalamau Laikum WallyUK,

You say "Naseem lives in the UK: she posted specific quotes, and gave the argument put forward, in such detail that she must have been taking notes, from a programme broadcast on the 23rd April, the following day (24th)".

Listen son....Yes I did see the program...but does that mean I live in the UK.....NO! ..there could be another reason....and there is ...Visiting the UK ...I am due back in Lahore, PAK very soon ...please don't presume too much.

Just imagine that Wally...I could have seen and passed you by on a street in London...and you didn't even know that it was Naseem.

What we need to do is move some troops to the Iraqi borders so as to try and minimize outside influence on the sunni/shiite civil war. Then move the rest of the troops to Afghanistan to rout the Taliban and when they run into Pakistan, chase them (using a scorched earth policy along the way) until we meet the Indian Army on the other side (or even in the middle).

Catherine, while not answering my question, said

and why do we have troops in S.Korea??

Because the South Koreans are our allies, and they asked us to stay there. The North Koreans would presumably attack South Korea if U.S. troops were not there to stop them.

Meanwhile, the Iraqis are killing our troops, the people want us to leave (as shown in many polls), and the Iraqi government wants us to leave (as shown by the statements made by government officials).

why did we stay in europe after we stopped hitler??

Well, after we finished WWII in less time than we've aleady been in Iraq (and who knows how much longer), we stayed to help Germany and Italy rebuild. Without an ideological or historical reason to stop them, they took to democracy and capitalism. They built up their cities and their societies, and began to look and act like societies operating on Western (some might say Judeo-Christian) values. Also, we stayed in Europe to stop the possible invasion of the Soviet Union.

In Iraq, the people voted for sharia, and their religion teaches them that democracy is corruption and against the will of Allah. They are operating their society like a cross between Mad Max and stone-age man (which is fine with me, it's their choice to live their lives according to their beliefs). The threat in Iraq (and Afghanistan, and the other Islamic nations) is not some foreign power that will invade if we're not there to stop it. The threat is the people already there, the threat is the culture of the Islamic societies themselves, the one that we're supposedly "saving".

How many South Koreans have driven chlorine-tankers into U.S. troops before detonating? How many Europeans have drilled into the eye sockets of each other before beheading them, or served roasted babies on beds of rice? Do you really think the Iraqis and Afghanis share the core values of the South Koreans or the Europeans?

Don't let the real world get in the way of your thinking?

You'll have to do more than make personal attacks to convince me that the Iraqis and Afghanis are worth the lives of our soldiers, or worth the cost of our tax dollars. They're not.

So, what's left to be done? What is the goal now?

Naseem doesn't even talk the same way from day to day. She's a fake, "peoples".

Champ

I didn't start any web-site. Caroline, Archimedes (not Archimedes2) and I were at one time working on a debating handbook for Infidels at islam-watch.org, which you can visit and check out for yourself (the main site itself is somewhat similar to Ali Sina's faith-freedom, aside from look-and-feel, and has similar goals of attracting Muslims away from Islam and joining this apostasy movement). Work on that is currently at a standstill, since we still have our day jobs, but some of the topics that are listed and were developed did turn out to be handy, and I myself have used a few of them here on a few occasions.

We could always use more volunteers. No cash needed - just people with the time to contribute. Aside from that, if you find the other forums on that site interesting, you can post there as well.

Now that the “girl students of Jamia Hasfa” have been assured that Sharia law is to be implemented, can we assume there will be long lines at the genital mutilation office? Naseem, maybe you can show them how it’s done by being first in line!

“Sharia is important.”

To you maybe, but not to me. It means nothing to me. You can call me all sorts of names and threaten to chop off my head but Sharia will always be alien to me. If you try to force it on me I will retaliate with strong and brutal force.

That is your problem Naseem. Your cult expects submission but our enlightened minds don’t buy your sales pitch.

You will get as far as affecting the man in the street and then your religion will get stamped on. Pain will follow and many will die but the result will be the same.

Your living in a dark world where finding habitable planets means nothing. We on the other hand are looking forward.

greatcometof1577:

CURIOUS--what's your intel on>50 nukes? Ali Khan had no more nuclear expertise than N. Korea. I'd be surprised if they had ten. And delivery systems?

The missile systems Pakistan (and in the future, Iran if they continue) use need prep time on the order of hours--many hours. The fuels are too volatile to remain mixed in a ready-to-launch state and require careful mixing prior to launch.

There's no place on Earth out of range of our surveillance for more than 45 minutes.

We have the most potent weapon system ever devised by man. It's the Nuclear Ballistic Misile Submarine--fondly called the Boomer. Each is armed with 20 MIRVed missiles.

The multiple independent re-entry vehicle warheads are accurate to within 10s of meters and have a nifty feature called dial-a yield.

US policy vis a vis a preemptive use of nuclear weapons is not as city klillers. With dial-a-yield we can hit a target less than the size of a football field with much less damage than we inflicted at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We are not murderous barbarians even when we are provoked.

Two or more of these silent killers are within striking distance of any place in South or Central Asia, the M.E., or East Africa in 8 to eighteen minutes.

Oh, yeah--forgot about smuggling them in a la "24" or "Jericho". Great stories, but, I assure you, we in the US (and I suspect in the UK) are very good indeed at interdiction.

We may (quite rightfully) crow about recent cocaine interdictions, but you won't hear about similar terror related imcidents.

Why?, you may ask.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO NEED TO KNOW.

___________________________________

Witness:

Totally, 100% in agreement. Sherman's strategy BUT Ulysses S. Grant's goal.

UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER.

No treaties. Look how great the Treaty of Versaille worked out for Europe. We did it right in WWII (and haven't since).

You attack US and want quarter for your women and children and to keep your property? OOPS, you now want to negotiate?

HELL, NO!

turn said

you won't hear about similar terror related imcidents. Why?, you may ask. BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO NEED TO KNOW.

I disagree. In fact I think we have more need to hear about attempted terrorist attacks than we need to hear about drug busts. We don't need to know methods of intercepting them, but we do need to know that the attempts are happening, we need to know who are making the attempts, and we need to hear why they are making the attempts.

We need this information, so that we the people can make informed decisions about policy issues such as immigration, border security, foreign ownership of media, foreign influence on our government, and foreign aid. This is a democracy, we are not children.

The jihadists have no problem loudly proclaiming what their goals are. We don't dare mumble what our goals might be, or even that we have any goals. We don't dare even mention what is happening in the world. Why is that?

what do you expect from a puppet government that was brought about through a military coup. Perez is a lackey of the west, he will appease both side to stay in power.

Thanks Infidel Pride!

WallyUK

You are Naseem's son?

Just imagine that Wally...I could have seen and passed you by on a street in London...and you didn't even know that it was Naseem.
Posted by: Naseem

Naseem so when your in London you are a partime muslim? l guess sharia free west is great to visit.
you cannot seem to stay in the your pak very long , and long for the sharia free environment of the WEst.. you hypercrite! yeah keep posting Naseems, its good to see what makes a partime muslim tick.

Naseem would appear to have be highly aware of the nuances of English vernacular: addressing someone as 'my son' is to patronise them; to address someone as 'son' is menacing.

We may (quite rightfully) crow about recent cocaine interdictions, but you won't hear about similar terror related imcidents.

Why?, you may ask.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO NEED TO KNOW.

Posted by: turn

no need to know?well maybe you dont,but as an American i need to know,i need to know what terrorist are hangeing around what mosque,what state,city,what were they trying to do,who were they targeting,was any American citizens helping?if so why....maybe you ike to be asleep and be cuddled,not wanting to know whats going on,if thats what gets ya off,fine,but dont tell anybody elsa they dont need to know,like the poster above said,we are not little children.

wally --

Naseem calls me her "kafur sister" all the time....which sounds both patronizing AND menacing. What the hell is a kafur sister anyway? Anyone.

Some of the imams of Lahore masjids are real gems and it’s a pleasure to talk to them, Ahmadis womens can talk to maulvis through purdah…no problems there.

Naseem, do you really think that a western woman who's used to freedom and independence is ever going to want to live the cramped little life allowed under Sharia?

/not gonna happen

Maybe the best tactic (or should I say only???) the United States can deploy to protect what is left of the world's democratic and reasonably humane nations-states from the increasingly barbaric and restive "developing nations" is to shut off ALL food exports to such increasingly irrational, violent, and belligerent states (of which Pakistan is quite possibly the best example in the world).

The United States still produces close to one third of the total world food supply and is by far the largest single source of food for many 'developing' nations. Enough losses of life could well make the citizenry if such nations reconsider their views and force them to the bargaining table. Better the barbarians than us.

Citizens of Pakistan, I find, are as a whole barbaric, bloodthirsty, ignorant and uneducated to the point where they are scarcely recognizable as human beings, breathtakingly hostile and warlike in mindset and overall social conditioning, and exquisitely fond of using brutality against non-Muslims and virtually anyone whom it might be politically expedient to use it on.

If food shut-offs fail to stymie the rising tide of bloodthirst among such 'developing' nations the next stop should be the use of electromagnetic pulse weapons on them. Iran however is already there. An EMP weapon should have already been deployed against it (in spite of whatever the leftists have to say on the matter)--and it is almost certainly going to prove necessary to thwart this nation's Mein Kampf ambitions.

Sorry, but the barbarians have got to go!

PMK,

What exactly are you comparing Pakistan to? What society has had 1,000 years of peace?
The Christian reformation was only four centuries ago and that was not peaceful. Europe had close to two thousand years of competing empires. Has a single century gone by without a war, ever?

I'm kind of being facetious, but hey, for the 'perfect system' of Sharia, 1,000 years of peace ought to be a cakewalk. If I'm going to change my way of life to once I perceive as inferior, I need a very good reason! For me to change my current worldview to an Islamic worldview would be like trading a Bentley for child's tricycle.

Isn't the real problem that Pakistan and most of the Muslim world is still broken into tribes? Two or more tribes can exist within the same lines on a map but that doesn't make them a nation, no matter how much we in the outside world like to pretend they are.

Yes, Muslims seem to go from the concept of tribe to concept of Ummah without the intervening step of nation. From the most concrete reality to the most abstract notion. This is partially because they incorrectly believe that Sharia is universal, so the whole pesky problem of trying it out on a smaller scale doesn't even occur to them. And when it does, you get abortions of states like Afghanistan under the Taliban.

The jihadists have no problem loudly proclaiming what their goals are. We don't dare mumble what our goals might be, or even that we have any goals. We don't dare even mention what is happening in the world. Why is that?

Posted by: special_guest at April 25, 2007 05:54 PM

because of the lib PC Remember democrats say there is no real threat?

Like the French said it was just youths?

PC crap will get you killed

Not all Iraqis are terrorist and many of the bombers come from outside the country and the Iraqis are standing up but your lib press doesn't want you to know the truth.

Just like you didn't hear that much about the French Election on Sunday because the Guy who got the most votes wants to repair relations with the USA just like the vote in Germany and didn't hear anything about the lib Prodi getting a no convence vote and quiting did you?

You aint seeing the whole picture or hearing the whole story!

Hell bet you didn't even know that the Itialians aired prime time main station the beheading of the Translator and the Prodi and Berlsconi said time to stand together and fight this evil

Hell if we put all the deaths from car crashes and all the murders around the country everyday you would think the USA is nothing but a sh-t hole too!!

those terorist are killing more Iraqis who are stand in line to fight for their own country.

Yes the PC crowd lies

Youth yea sure?
http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html

VIDEO IN NYC OF CRAZY MULSUMS!!!

EESSAA....Islam offers nothing.It never has and it never will.All muhammad brought through islam and the sword was evil and inhumane.

I know every time someone repeats those words the pope probably gets a chill down his spine.

The fact is Paleologos in the early 1400 hundreds saw first hand what islam was.He only called it as he seen it.

Then again muslims were not taught very well about the facts of history.What they are taught of history is to deny thier own defeats,thier failures.Thier repeated failures.

All one needs to do is look at what the janjaweed are doing with the blessings of it's arabic and muslim government.What alquaida does and hammas and fatah and hezbola,the muslim brother hood and every other off shoot of some other islamic genocidal group to see what Paleologos saw first hand.

Islam must think it's strong enough to take on the infedel.Or the "heroes and lions" are tired of waiting as thier pitiful little lives wilt away.

In any case islam hasn't changed in 1400 yrs so it's safe to say that what islam was then islam is today.Evil and inhumane a scourage upon the face of the earth.

Abdullah talks on and on about the numbers of converts he has witnessed.I would be very interested in knowing what type of people these converts are.What is thier mind set i wonder?

One can imagine they are the type of person who wishes to be a lay about and recieve a free check.Or maybe the latest vermon released from thier prison for horrific crimes.Rape ,murder and pedophilia maybe even just the common criminal who loves the idea of a glorified campaign to take what others have with no reprocussion.All the things found in islam common murderers and rapists and pedophiles and thieves.As the master muhammad has done let islam do.

You can sit there and justify islams acts till the cows come home but you fool no one but those who wish to be fooled for thier gain.

I remember parts of an article either here on JW or TROP maybe DW or even FPM about some 2000 prison inmates converted to islam.One also has to wonder here about how many of those who made it to the battle grounds or the training camps were made to be examples to all the others.

How many when reality hit home tried like crazy to get out from under the thumb of it's new masters?

Then again dead men tell no tales and torture is a very powerful and persuasive tool.

Nothing of worth or value can i find in the muslim holy books,the koran ,hadiths or suras.The only peace mentioned is the peace of inslavement to those who choose to submit and even those who wish not to submit.One is just higher on a dead end ladder.

The only words of peace from muhammads mouth is that of the umma.Peace within itself and among itself.There was never any intention to be a peace between the "holy and mighty" islam and the infedel.The peace in "the religion of peace" is just another devilish tactic of deciet to those who know no better.

The grand old title the umma should express is "The religion of tacit peace" because it's all talk of peace and there is no proof of it.In fact quite the opposite.

I don't want you to mistake my comments for pleas of islam to change.Muslims are too far gone in my opinion.The hate instilled into thier hearts and thier minds so corrupted beyond repair.The arrogance of a made up and delusional history of grandier.The inability to look within and find an iota of fault for it's actions upon the world.

Just the mere mention of islam brings an odor of death to my senses.The mere name islam sends visions of horror racing through my mind.This is what i view islam as.This is what islam has made itself out to be.

Perhaps you feel these things will help your cause.maybe my visions of horror when the name islam is mentioned is to your liking but i assure you it does not work in islams favor.It is to My favor.Everyday i wake up and at night when i go to sleep and all the time in between is time spent on defeating islam.I endlessly tell people the truth about islam.I tell them how racist they are.I tell them how murderous they are.I tell them of the rape and the pedophilia.I tell them all that islam wishes to hide.

People like abdullah speak of the converts he has witnessed.Let me assure i do my part in the awakening.I am much like the town crier galloping throughout the town.

People will know what islam is before it's too late.I suspect they really know they just aren't quite sure yet about what is to be done about it.

The free worlds best tool to fight against islam is of course islam itself.

Continue to sow mischief through the lands.Run amok as islam loves to do.Continue to hate and demand the deaths of the "others".

Soon the armor of the heroes will be far too grand for the wretches of islam to gaze upon and the songs,those sweet sweet victory songs of True Heroes will curdle the blood in the "lions and martyrs" veins.

Go now,islam has laid out it's justifications and in doing so has given the "others" justification.Go now and do as "heroes and lions and martyrs' of islam do,women and children await your justice it's all justified so you can rest easy oh "holy and mighty ones."

special_guest and patriot10

Hell, I'd LIKE to know, but I don't NEED to know.

It's the nature of counterintelligence. Report that an action/plot has been stopped and it's all too easy to track back and deduce who the informant may have been, or worse, that we've turned someone that can continue to deliver actionable intel. That asset would be quickly removed from play.

Prior to 9/11 we shared some intel with Russia that we could listen to UBL's sat phone calls. This info reached him, and since then he's communicated by courier delivered audio and video tape.

We gave away a pearl of inestimable value.

Much better for it to disappear into a black hole.

______________________________

"no need to know?well maybe you dont,but as an American i need to know,i need to know what terrorist are hangeing around what mosque,what state,city,what were they trying to do,who were they targeting,was any American citizens helping?if so why....maybe you ike to be asleep and be cuddled,not wanting to know whats going on,if thats what gets ya off,fine,but dont tell anybody elsa they dont need to know,like the poster above said,we are not little children."

Oh, Man! Am I red in the face!

OK, Pat. As an American, just what WOULD you do if an intelligence agent knocked on your door and told you that there was a known jihadi plotting something with the help of an American citizen in the mosque on Main St. in your hometown THIS VERY MINUTE?

The government should not share tactical information. But they have to be recognizing the strategic threat that Islam represents. Yet they seem to want to shelter us from the nature of the threat as it grows in our midst. As we are a democracy with much of the electorate focused on their jobs and family, it is not responsible for the President to call Islam the religion of peace.

I sure wish they would release 'Ismail' Cho’s manifesto.

p.s. 24 missile tubes.

turn asked

what WOULD you do if an intelligence agent knocked on your door and told you that there was a known jihadi plotting something with the help of an American citizen in the mosque on Main St. in your hometown THIS VERY MINUTE?

I can't speak for patriot10, but I'd ask him "Then what the **** are you doing knocking on my door, chucklehead?"

The point is that jihadist attacks have taken place inside the U.S. since 9/11 (and before). For whatever reasons, our media and government officials seem to agree with you that we don't need to worry our little heads about it. They have denied that the attacks were terrorism, even though the attackers have said "I am a jihadist" or words to that effect.

Off the top of my head, there is the SUV jihadist at UNC, the SUV jihadist in San Francisco, the El Al gunman at LAX, and the Beltway Snipers.

Like I said, we don't need to know methods and sources. We shouldn't have mentioned the satellite phone; and I remember when geologists said that they studied the rock formations behind OBL in the early videos, and from that they were able to narrow down the region in which he was hiding. After that announcement, the videos had a cloth backdrop, or were recorded in studios. I agree we don't need to publicize that, but just leave off how we caught them, and just admit that we did catch them, and they are Muslims, and they provide Qur'anic quotes to justify their actions. Use it as a teaching moment, to educate our population about Islam. Use it to start to explain why we're going to need to do what we're going to need to do to protect ourselves from jihad.

Pakistan is NOT our ally!

Fight dhimmitude and visit http://www.masada1234.blogspot.com

pez said

I sure wish they would release 'Ismail' Cho’s manifesto.

But they're not done "examining it for clues". And when, eventually, after things cool down and it is finally released, we will be able to see how obscure those clues were.

Yesterday NBC defended their release of selected quotes, saying that they wanted to answer the question of why he did it. Apparently the photos of Cho pointing a gun at the camera was supposed to explain his motivation. Meanwhile, they've released only 3 or 4 sentences out of a 1800 word document that, assumedly, explains what his motivations were. Everything that has been released has been salacious and inflammatory and uninformative, and are exactly the materials that would most upset the victims' families, while simultaneously giving us the least amount of facts.

"What the hell is a kafur sister anyway? Anyone."
Posted by: champ

1) Suitable fodder for an honor killing
2) Companion for "slumming" in infidel country
3) Product of conception of father's "captive of right hand" (see also 'kafir half-sister')
4) Alternate universe alter-ego as in William Shatner in a bad Star Trek episode.
5) Wrestle-mania equivolent of da'wa opponent.

Answers:

A) 1,2&3
B) 1&3
C) 2&4
D) 4 only
E) All of the above

turn

They have 50 plus nukes based on the amount of weapon-grade highly enriched uranium they have which if I remember correct somewhere near 800 kg but it various from one source to another. That was in the 1990s so I assume they should more at this point. I will then be more correct and say anywhere between 30-60 nukes just to be on the safe side. There have been some reports as high as 150 and others as low as 10-15. I don’t think they have 150 but the fact we don’t have clue one how many they really have. As for delivery systems just think outside the box. How about a tanker or large cargo ship? They realize the U.S. has a large nuclear arsenal and that within a few years we should have a workable missile defense system. However the ports are a mess. Our navy can only do so much and our intelligence services are part of the reason we are this mess in the first place. I have little confidence in them at this point. Even if our intelligence services figure it out our current leadership in government from the White House starting with the President himself to congress is not intelligent enough to figure it out. That might offend people but their track records speak for themselves.

“The missile systems Pakistan (and in the future, Iran if they continue) use need prep time on the order of hours--many hours. The fuels are too volatile to remain mixed in a ready-to-launch state and require careful mixing prior to launch.”

Not important. Missile technology would only be useful for attacking someone like Israel which is a possibility.

During war games off San Diego one Swedish sub managed to cause enough problems to be of concern. It is known that the Paks have gotten a few (From China??) and Iran is trying to get them also

http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/164/documentid/2873/history/3,2360,656,164,2873

Once again all the military might on earth does not mean anything if the leadership is too inept to use in an effective manner.

“US policy vis a vis a preemptive use of nuclear weapons is not as city klillers. With dial-a-yield we can hit a target less than the size of a football field with much less damage than we inflicted at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We are not murderous barbarians even when we are provoked.”

You better get murderous and barbaric because that is war. You better realize that what we are fighting is not governments but a hostile people. Muslims are hostile to the west in general. Lets say I am right and a nuke does go off in a major U.S. port. Some semi-known muslim terror group gets up and says we did it.

What are you going to do?

I know what I would do if I was in charge. I will not say it for I might get banned and Mr. Spencer don’t need CAIR or others using it as fodder. All this can be avoided if we made it clear what we would do if that happened to nations like Pakistan (even if they denied they did it). The ummah is the enemy. The faster that gets into peoples skulls the faster we can win this war.

“Oh, yeah--forgot about smuggling them in a la "24" or "Jericho". Great stories, but, I assure you, we in the US (and I suspect in the UK) are very good indeed at interdiction.”

O ye has much confidence in the leadership of this nation. Don’t put a medal on your chest just yet. You mean the way we stop things and people from getting in now?

Sorry no dice..I don’t think we are as good at interdiction as you think. I do give the enemy more respect then you do. I really do think that even though they are out of the minds due to their religion I think they are very good at this kind of game. They are not stupid as you think. I hope I am dead wrong and you right however….

“We may (quite rightfully) crow about recent cocaine interdictions, but you won't hear about similar terror related imcidents. Why?, you may ask.BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO NEED TO KNOW.”

Of course I don’t need to know but I do realize that millions of Mexicans cross the border each year and god knows what makes in through the ports each day and if they can do it so can a group of jihadist with a nuke.

You know people said the same thing about Japan in the 1920s and 1930s. They were too stupid and too inferior to pull off an attack against the U.S. We were proven wrong then and we will be proven wrong again I fear.

Another topical Rickover quote:

Attempts to limit war have always failed. The lesson of history is when a war starts every nation will ultimately use whatever weapon it has available.

This next one is going to be something different. An odd combination of small arms and big bombs. A really bad place to live is downwind of a port.

Catherine

“I am sick of you people who say go here go there but have no balls to finish the job!!”

What job are you talking about? You mean the president? There is no job to finish in Iraq. Muslims are impossible to deal with in a civilized manner. Why is that so hard to understand?

The current Bush plan is to bring democracy to Iraq. That has been proven time and time and time…to infinity to have been and will continue to be an abject failure. Muslims do not want and will never want a democracy with freedom for all. They want ummah! They want Sharia! They want Allah’s laws otherwise why continue to be a muslim?

Therefore if democracy is not going to work then why continue to charge up that hill. It is time for plan B.

(1) Separate and end immigration of muslims to non-muslim lands.

(2) Create disorder within their ranks by playing different factions against each other within the Ummah.

(3) Avoid contact with the Ummah and never help muslims unless it is useful for non-muslims in creating more disorder within the Ummah.

(4) Use direct military action in defense of non-muslim lands. Use direct military action to destroy any weapon systems that could threaten non-muslim lands (nuclear technology and infrastructure for example like Iran and Pakistan)

(5) When you do fight have no mercy on the enemy. No more psy-wars. No more suits from the CIA and State Dept. No more worrying what the UN will say. No more building schools etc. Hit hard and make it a memory they soon shall not forget. Invade Western Pakistan and engage the tribes in those regions. Level their villages and destroy their homes. Make it a waste land. Make sure they fear you. We must make them lose faith in their religion or shake them of their love of Jihad. That Allah will make them winners. We must show them Allah will not save them.

STOP WORRYING ABOUT DEMOCRATS!

They will lose their offices as quick as they got them if the GOP would stop pandering to the ROP. The dems only won the last election because the GOP was not doing what I have stated above. Instead the GOP is too busy hanging around with their Pakistani and Arabian friends. Getting sweet heart deals, improving their foreign investments and getting payoffs to let hordes of immigrants get into the country. People figured what the hell….

The GOP is the DNC and Bush is getting very close to Jimmy Carter levels of stupidity.

When the GOP starts acting like the GOP again and G.W. and his family is banished back to Crawford only then can you say there is a difference and the GOP will be back in charge!

OK, Pat. As an American, just what WOULD you do if an intelligence agent knocked on your door and told you that there was a known jihadi plotting something with the help of an American citizen in the mosque on Main St. in your hometown THIS VERY MINUTE?

Posted by: turn

why would they be knockin on my door?never said i wanted them over for dinner,but would like a heads up to the public,as far as giveing intell to russia? hello,it RUSSIA!!!why the hell would they be so stupid.Just cause they stopped an attack,they cant tell me because somebody might figure out they know,or wonder how?dont ya think they would know if they got stopped them from doing something?tell us,what to be on the look out,or dont be going to a certain place till the coast is clear,i dont expect them to tell me how they know,or who they know it from.just tell us when there is a danger,so we can watch our back's

Concerned Citizen --

Those were good! I did a little research, and I guess "kafir" is someone who rejects Mohammad; so Naseem would be correct in calling me one. But your ideas are certainly textbook worthy.

The special ops teams better be locked, loaded and on-call 24/7, prepped to swoop in and take control of the Paki nukes should Mushie fall

Let's not let this be another "gee, we really should have expected it" 'surprise'.

Like the "'guess we should have looked at Moussaoui's hard-drive before 9/11" folly.

Catherine said

I am sick of you people who say go here go there but have no balls to finish the job!!

A little off topic but still about jihad...

Prior to the last election, muslims were on the internet(including this site) encouraging American readers to vote democrat. This is because they know that democrats in Washington are thier best friends.
The defeatists among them encourage the jihadi's to try harder. A case in point...Hairy Ried...When Hairy first announced that America had lost the war, it was broadcast on Al-Jazeera. The terrorists patted each other on the back, hugged in joy with big toothy grins, and then went out to kill more Americans to prove Hairy right. When some more Americans were killed in Iraq, Hairy jumps up and proclaims...'See, I was right', 'we have lost the war...to which the jihadists laugh and hug, and go out and kill some more Americans to make Hairy righter. Then Hairy says 'see'.............
Hairy is in an unholy alliance with jihadists to kill Americans. Hairy is directly responsible for American deaths in Iraqi. And those who agree with him are silent accessories.

Maybe we should get out of Iraq, but not this way, it is an evil outrage, and should be dealt with accordingly...

For a Muslim to call a non-Muslim a kafir is like a Puritan calling a heathen a "witch" in Salem... if you were in an Islamic country.

Wow, your entire post is great, Mr. Nicodemus, but I especially like this:

They will lose their offices as quick as they got them if the GOP would stop pandering to the ROP. The dems only won the last election because the GOP was not doing what I have stated above. Instead the GOP is too busy hanging around with their Pakistani and Arabian friends. Getting sweet heart deals, improving their foreign investments and getting payoffs to let hordes of immigrants get into the country. People figured what the hell….

-----------

That is so right!

I remember after the election in November, the media was quoting "exit polls" stating why people voted Democrat.

You can't exactly do an 'exit poll' with those who stayed home, can you? Those who are disillusioned with the GOP just didn't vote.

THAT was the deciding factor, not anti-war sentiment.

"Naseem would appear to have be highly aware of the nuances of English vernacular: addressing someone as 'my son' is to patronise them; to address someone as 'son' is menacing."

Of course she would be, Wally, English is an official language of Pakistan after all. Hello.

And after seeing countless message after message menacing and patronizing Naseem, it's not all together too surprising that she would push back a little bit herself. Y'all did accuse her of being a fraud after all...

Kay:

You're right...only
#1 was illegals & not stopping them. If we don't do anything about a blatant invasion by people, most of which hate our guts...:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/12/141242.shtml
...then what's the point in anything else since there's an impending invasion?

#2 was that we're not tough ENOUGH with terrorists (which the "polls" conveniently choose to avoid asking like the plague...gee, wonder why *ahem*), not that outrageously bogus "anti-war sentiment" which they'd like the world to think, lest a completely different outcome, and the MSM left looking like the lying kooks they are.

Most stayed home (voting % proved that beyond doubt), and the point's been made by the real majority, of which are NOT leftists as the MSM want to portend.
That's a midterm election...the general one in 2008 will be very different as more is at stake, and it's a long time before then.

;-)