From Matthew Omolesky in the Brussels Journal:
Last week, a Russian law banning foreigners from retail stalls and markets, announced by the cabinet last November, finally took effect. While facially neutral, the law essentially targets immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries. Meanwhile, a Russian city court in Pyatigorsk convicted Anton Stepanenko of promoting Wahhabism, inciting ethnic and religious hatred, and encouraging vigilantism. Yet Stepanenko’s case had become a cause célèbre for many Russian Muslims, and after public appeals to President Vladimir Putin on behalf of the imam (an “exemplary, heroic figure for all the nation’s Muslims,” according to some), the charges were reduced and Stepanenko went free.In the grand scheme, these are two fairly minor pieces of news, but still indicative of Russia’s present relationship with Islam. The first story suggests a revival of nationalism, an increasing wariness of pluralism, and, along with other recent moves by Russian national and provincial authorities to promote Orthodox Christianity and create incentives for having larger families, speaks to a growing awareness of the challenges posed by Russia’s demographic situation (discussed by Mark Steyn elsewhere and Fjordman on this space). The second story shows that the Kremlin is nonetheless eager to mollify the growing Russian Muslim population and is crossing its fingers that Russian “Euro-Islam” remains what the Economist has dubbed a “benign growth” (a term presumably referring to moderate Islam generally and not to what has taken root in Chechnya, Daghestan, and North Ossetia).
[...]
[A]s governments across the world have come to realize, Islam as a political force is not so easily corralled. The interminable conflict in Chechnya, which has pitted Russians against Chechens as well as being an internecine conflict, was an inevitable outgrowth of this policy.
As an increasingly nationalistic Russia seeks to grapple with the challenges posed by its own demographic doldrums and its complex relationship with the Eurasian Islamic crescent, it is necessary to examine how effective the longstanding Russian policy of co-opting Islamic moderates has been. As contemporary European nations likewise vie for the affection of Islamic moderates, it is worth noting that this instrumentalization of Islam poses its own challenges, and will mean that, to again quote Robert Crews, “religion and policing will become more closely intertwined,” something not ordinarily the goal of a liberal society. In the end, Russia’s age old balancing approach should certainly be of interest to European policymakers, but it still may be only postponing an increasingly likely confrontation.
The law banning foreigners has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with russian nationalism.
The people working in these markets are tajik, vietnamese, chinese, georgian, armenian, afghan, african etc. and all are negatively affected and ALL are equally disliked by an increasingly xenophobic Russia.
prices have already gone up as a result
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/05/business/migrant.php
A nationalistic Russia is good news. I hope the PC crowd does not spin this is bad. Nationalism is the only tool left to fight islam. An entire generation has been brainwashed to believe that if we ended nationalism, took away religion then we would have no wars as no one would believe in anything worth fighting for. Well they were half right. We have a population with no values who have nothing that is worth fighting for. but has this made the world safe. No, just ripe for conquest by islamic hordes.
Nationalism in Russia is against ALL foreigners, thats why Africans, Chinese, Central Asian (Tajiks, Uzbeks etc) and Caucasians (georgians, chechens etc.) get routinely beat up and killed by nationalist gangs.
I can see why you would view this as good news
It is good news. If the western liberal democracies will not protect Christendom from islam, and they aren't, maybe the autocratic Russians will.
Do not worry for the Africans, Chinese and Central Asians. They control half the planet already and are spreading geometrically and multiplying exponentially. And they are not bringing Christianity with them. A bastion for Christianity must be created somewhere where PC can not destroy it. Russia may be it.
In a world of uncertainties , one thing you can count on, The USA opposition any resistance to Islams growth ,
our hubris of indestructibility through tolerance will bring us the tragic end we so richly earned by embracing failing to embrace the values that make America great. truth self reliance, freedom.
in favor of adoption of the characteristics of those we sought to protect because they are weak.
moral equivalency political correctness and lies,
Not all ideologies or beliefs are equal, some things are better than others .
The days of admitting that are passed.
I wonder who Jihadwatcher is.
don't fuck with russians, they survived communism, they know they can survive.
"A nationalistic Russia is good news."
It's unfortunate that we may need the blind meanness that Russian nationalism brings.
So many nukes under the control (or lack of control) of people for whom the Christian enlightenment is a distant ideal.
Да, Россия имеет реальную проблему с мусульманством. Если они не останавливают торговать с Ираном, то их проблема получит самая плохая.
Yeah, except Putin is bringing back the old communist state that we soooo loved. Just ask the 15 or so dead russian journalists who had the wrong view of reality and then were mysteriously Putinized.
These islamofascists in tehran have to go! The mules have to go! I believe Newt has it right when he said to eliminate the lone iranian refinery and then blockade them so no gas makes it into iran. They can set their desperation inspired assets off wherever they may be, but we'll know then where they all are and we can deal with them.
One thing is for certain, I will laugh my @ss off the day one of these traitorous politicians is kidnapped while talking to one of these terrorist groups.
StillBreathing
"So many nukes under the control (or lack of control) of people for whom the Christian enlightenment is a distant ideal."
Of course those nukes could fall into the hands of muslims...
I prefer a Russian who at least understands "MAD" then a muslim pushing the buttons to paradise.
"I wonder who Jihadwatcher is.
Posted by: The Contrarian"
I wonder who you are, in second thought I don't care.
"Yeah, except Putin is bringing back the old communist state that we soooo loved. Just ask the 15 or so dead russian journalists who had the wrong view of reality and then were mysteriously Putinized.
Paratisi"
What a bunch of BS. Are you talking about the slime ball that was poisoined by pulonium. YOu do realize that clown was a convert to Islam. I honestly think he willingly swallowed pulonium as a road to martyrdom to embarass Russian. And besides Putin is quite far removed from communism. First people say he is a nationalist and they don't like that now he is a communist. Well which one is it?
The problem with Russian isn't Putin but the thug Oligarchs who robbed Russia of its riches. All of these thugs are being supported and seeking Asylum in either Britain, the US ,or Israel. We are alienating a strong ally against Islam because the crooks in our countries are supporting the crooks in their country.
I am reminded of the hitherto inexplicable idea in the alleged Fatima revelations regarding a pontifical and episcopal consecration of Russia-- in effect thereby designating the land of the czars as a special and blessed "bastion," as jihadwatcher has it, for Christendom.
While I don't share everyone's enthusiasm for chauvinistic revival in Russia, it is clear that something dramatic better happen in Russia soon, or else the mother country will become the mother of all countries. By 2020 the Russian conscript army will be majority Muslim.
HAID
"A nationalistic Russia is good news."
It's unfortunate that we may need the blind meanness that Russian nationalism brings.
Better Russia than Germany don't you think? Who else in Europe can lead the charge but one of those two? Britain being across the channel has a unique situation but I am not sure how they could be expected to bat leadoff at this time. See also under recent Naval misadventures..
Once Russia starts to swing the bat I am sure the Rest of Europe will be influenced in a positive way.. maybe someonelike Denmark will bat second... anyone's guess who'll go third. Could be Germany since we're neighbors to Denmark and any hostilities are bound to spill over. And I am certain that Germans will sympathize with the Danes whilst iNazis and Leftists will take the side of the Mos.
Leave it up to the USA to bat cleanup as befits a Power Hitter.
Britain may go next. I can only imagine the moslem uproar they will face if Russia, Denmark and Germany start fighting back against these incursionists... They'll simply have no other chioice. And I am certain more than up to the task! As I can see from the fervor with which many of the Britons on this board express themselves.. I am convinced we all will pik up our end once things get ugly.
I hope that we, the peoples of Europe will have each others' backs.. regardless of what the media/guvmint do in reaction to any unrest "next door".
I know I'd be prepared to help out if I should be in Europe when things get hot.
Happy Easter and let's hope we can solve these things via the ballot box - before we have no other choice!
Western media reports about Russia are almost always full of ill-informed nonsense. The article posted is an example. It suggests that North Ossetia is Islamic; actually it is Christian, and radical Islam is not 'taking root' there (unless 'taking root' refers to terrorist raids from neighbouring Ingushetia).
But that is one small detail. The main point of the article is the assertion that the new law banning foreigners from working as shop-assistants in markets is aimed at countering the influence of radical Islam. This argument is absolute gibberish.
Turner wrote:
"The law banning foreigners has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with russian nationalism."
That statement is correct. Most of the people it affects are not Muslims. They are Chinese, Vietnamese, Georgian, and Armenian (all non-Muslims). A minority are Tadjik and Uzbek (Muslims). Muslim market traders from the North Caucuses, i.e. Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia, etc., are not affected by the law, as they are not 'foreigners', they are citizens of the Russian Federation.
pissedoffcanadian wrote:
"A nationalistic Russia is good news. ... Nationalism is the only tool left to fight islam. ... We have a population with no values who have nothing that is worth fighting for"
Turner replied:
"Nationalism in Russia is against ALL foreigners, thats why Africans, Chinese, Central Asian (Tajiks, Uzbeks etc) and Caucasians (georgians, chechens etc.) get routinely beat up and killed by nationalist gangs."
Again, Turner is correct. Russian nationalists beat up and murder people solely because of the colour of their skin, on a weekly basis. The majority of victims of these murders are not Muslims. Armenians (Christians) get the brunt of it, as do black African students.
If this kind of murderous racist nationalism is what 'pissedoffcanadian' considers to include 'values' (!?!!) 'worth fighting for', then his opinions are beneath contempt.
Schmegel-shmucky.. please crawl back under your Marxxxist rock! Go worship Che and be done with it.
¡Viva la revoluciòn!
As contemporary European nations likewise vie for the affection of Islamic moderates, it is worth noting that this instrumentalization of Islam poses its own challenges, and will mean that, to again quote Robert Crews, “religion and policing will become more closely intertwined,” something not ordinarily the goal of a liberal society.
Russia was never, and is not a liberal society, and as such whatever lessons there maybe, they certainly are no lessons for Western Europe. In any violent confrontation with political Islam, Russia always has the gulag in the background, and other such coercive methods.
RE:
Да, Россия имеет реальную проблему с мусульманством. Если они не останавливают торговать с Ираном, то их проблема получит самая плохая.
Translation:
Yes, Russia has real problem with the Islam. If they do not stop trade with Iran, then their problem will get worst.
schmegel-I noticed that you once again could not actually make a real argument. You instantly presumed that by saying having a nationalist approach means that people are advocating the death of people based on their skin color, what a giant leap you have taken.
Can you with your infinite wisdom tell me what it was that was stated above that gives you your conclusions?
I personally cannot make this connection based off of two sentences. I see a nationalistic Russia as a good thing as it is a concept of breeding or influencing common ideals for the Russian people. We who I can only presume, live in the west should be seeing all around us the pitfalls of believing in nothing and having a cultureless society as a role model has brought us nothing but the complete lack of survival instinct for our own way of life.
While Russian assistance against Jihad is welcomed, more generalized expressions of beligerance are not. Poland, the Baltic States, Czech Republic, and other former satellite countries are useful allies in the struggle against Jihad who are not in the process of arming Iran.
Russia and China are both significant wild cards in the showdown to come between Jihad and the West, but to rely on either for assistance is naive (both will Jihad to take down the West several notches and Russia would love to see the U.S. lose its policeman role over ME oil), and to embolden either to pursue anti-Western behavior is to ask for trouble. Russian tyranny is as contrary to Western interests as Jihad is---it just isn't currently as dangerous given the demographics.
I am all for Christian renewal in Russia, but make no mistake about it, Russian elites are even less Christian than Western European elites (who at least subscribe to Western ideas grounded in Judeo-Christian morality). If someone is looking for nationalistic and Christian leadership in Europe, those countries share a common nervousness about Russia, i.e. Poland, Czech Republic, Baltic States, etc. These countries affirmatively want to emphasize their "westerness" and are the best allies we could have. If we sell them down the river in encouraging a nationalistic Russia, we will be making a significant mistake.
The fanatic wrote:
"schmegel-I noticed that you once again could not actually make a real argument. You instantly presumed that by saying having a nationalist approach means that people are advocating the death of people based on their skin color, what a giant leap you have taken.
Can you with your infinite wisdom tell me what it was that was stated above that gives you your conclusions?"
I didn't 'presume' anything about 'a nationalist approach'. I merely stated an empirical observation, i.e. that Russian nationalists (their Skinhead vanguard at least) regularly murder dark-skinned people. These murders are entirely on the basis of race; most of the victims are not Muslims. The murders are the result of the racist ideology that most Russian nationalists adhere to.
schmegel you seem to be very sensitive about racism. Isn't painting all Russian nationalists with the same brush and making a generalization that they are all racist in fact racist against them. Please enough of the racist stereotypes about Russians. You are a bigot and you don't even realize it.
J.Sobieski you claim Russian elites are less Christian than the west. Are you kidding me. I honestly think that the biggest threat to civilization is our own christian hating elite. Make no mistake about it Islam is going to swallow us whole. Islam is evil. But it won't be Islams fault. We have the technology and power to resist but its our christian hating elite that is going to bring this about. God bless Russia. I just hope the fragile stability they have holds and they stay the course.
pissedoffcanadian wrote:
"Please enough of the racist stereotypes about Russians."
How does criticising the racism of Russian nationalists make me anti-Russian? You seem to be equating the term 'Russian nationalists' and 'Russian people'. This is wrong. 'Nationalism' is a dirty word amongst most Russians (and is sharply distinguished from 'Patriotism').
Over there in liberal, civilised Canada (is that why you're pissed off?) racism may seem a merely theoretical issue. Here in Russia it's a murderous reality.
so a few russian nationalist beat up people based on the colour of there skin i guess it only happens it russia right it doesnt happen anywhere else in europe or America right? you Americans who call russia racist should look at your racist history of black slavery and genocide of native indians how many did america kill becasue people where not white?
Schmegal the only problem i have with russia is that they didnt help the serbs kick your NATO asses out when you came to bomb serbia and help the terrorist muslims albanians steal kosovo
"Just ask the 15 or so dead russian journalists who had the wrong view of reality and then were mysteriously Putinized."
which journalists? the leftist useful idiots that are cheering for muslim chechenia?
thank god in russia know how to silence them forever.
Mark Steyn's other demographic point was specifically targeted at the Russian military: It is becoming Muslim even more rapidly than the general population because "the Muslims are the only men of military age not face-down in the Vodka."
Could be a problem there.
As for the question above about a bastion of Christianity. Don't bother with Russia. For a start China is rapidly turning Christian - and they are real, solid Christians, tested by fire. Don't forget that Christianity is the largest and most rapidly growing religion in the world.
the truth is people can whine all they like about russia about how it treats the traitor jounalist and ex kgb spy muslim converts and muslim terrorist but it seems to me some western hypocrites would love russia to fall just as much as the islamics want it to fall
J.Sobieski you claim Russian elites are less Christian than the west. Are you kidding me. I honestly think that the biggest threat to civilization is our own christian hating elite.
In the U.S. where we have elite conservatives as well as elite lefties, Christianity is to prominent to be visibly hated by any prominent elected official (the MSM is a different story). Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama have both quoted the New Testament and appeared in Christian churches, etc. None of this strikes me a sincere, but it isn't visible hatred either.
My comment was that Russian elites are less Judeo-Christian in their personal conduct than those of Western Europe. For example, as much as I detest Chirac, does anyone out there honestly think he is capable of behaving anything like Putin? One can presume that Western leaders will not brazenly put political rivals in jail, ignore the rule of law, etc.
I want Russia to survive and prosper in a non-Islamic form. I agree that Jihad concerns trump the other concerns for the moment, but when dealing with Russia, Jihad concerns cannot be the sole concern.
Russia and China are both rivals on the world stage that are potentially dangerous to the West, and in particular, are likely to hamper our attempts to deal with Islam. Who is supplying Iran with nuclear material?
We need to keep a watchful eye on Russia to avoid adding any other foreign threats to red alert status. We can chew gum and walk at the same time. We can support Russian efforts against Jihad while trying to restrain Russian efforts to bully its neighbors in a decidedly non-Western fashion.
Greek Gurl wrote:
"Schmegal the only problem i have with russia is that they didnt help the serbs kick your NATO asses out when you came to bomb serbia and help the terrorist muslims albanians steal kosovo "
My personal 'ass' has nothing to do with NATO. I don't support NATO's actions, or even its existence.
This is in contrast to your beloved Greek state, which is a loyal NATO member. Where was Greece during the Kosovo war? Probably too busy whining about, and refusing to legally recognise Macedonia (an Orthodox Christian country, which also has a problem with Muslim Albanians), because of some paranoid name dispute. How can Macedonia, or any other Orthodox country under seige, look to Greece for solidarity?!
turner & schmegel,
It's obvious you know little about Russia other than what you get in the biased Western media. Russia has suffered more Muslim terrorism than any other country on the planet and the jihadists are attempting to swamp the cities with Muslim migrants. Just walk around Moscow or Sainkt Petersburg and you'll see that these are Chechens, Tajiks, Uzbeqs etc.
Russia is not being overun by Vietnamese. It was not Chinese or Armenians who blew up the Moscow apartments and department stores or massacred the children of Beslan. It was MUSLIMS!
As for the Chinese, they are overwhelmingly LEGAL migrants under the exchange program where Russia and China exchange guest workers. Armenians are Orthodox Christians and are completely integrated into Russian society. So get your facts straight. Your anti-Russian hatred and anti-Slavic racism is appalling.
As for the Russian military, it is less than 4% Muslim. Ever since a Chechen suicide-terrorist sank the Kursk, Muslims are quietly being purged from the Navy. Since Putin replaced the incompetent Yeltsin, Russia has gotten its economic act together and the role of the Orthodox Church is expanding. Russia will never return to communism or submit to Islam.
schmegel-gollum or whatever your name is. I can picture you as some overweight, middle aged pedaphile that hangs out in comic book shops. Get a life and learn some history. The lord of the rings did not happen. I am sure you think Harrry Potter is real too. Try picking up a history book and reading about Russia. You know nothing about the country so shut your mouth.
FedUpagain wrote:
""Just ask the 15 or so dead russian journalists who had the wrong view of reality and then were mysteriously Putinized."
which journalists? the leftist useful idiots that are cheering for muslim chechenia?
thank god in russia know how to silence them forever."
The sinister poster who wrote that last sentence is clearly a moral reptile. I don't need to comment on it; it speaks for itself.
The latest Russian journalist to have been 'silenced forever' is one Ivan Safronov, a journalist for the daily newspaper, 'Kommersant', who was 'investigating claims of planned arms sales to Syria and Iran at the time of his death.'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6426043.stm
The Muslims want to conquer the west one way or another... then it will be the appeasers Chinese and Russia's turn.
Posted by: schmegel
This is in contrast to your beloved Greek state, which is a loyal NATO member. Where was Greece during the Kosovo war? Probably too busy whining about, and refusing to legally recognise Macedonia (an Orthodox Christian country, which also has a problem with Muslim Albanians), because of some paranoid name dispute. How can Macedonia, or any other Orthodox country under seige, look to Greece for solidarity?!
Greece protested the kosovo war and it didnt allow NATO war ships to dock its ports and i think Greece should leave NATO.
Greece will not legally recognise macedonia because macedonia was Greek and it always was Greek unfortunely some bulgerian gypsys who came to macedonia years ago want to steal our history and lie macedonia is not just disliked by Greece but also by serbia as well because it supported the albanians terrorist against serbia its more of a question of how can any other orthodox christian country under seige look for solidarity in Macedonia?
"As for the Russian military, it is less than 4% Muslim. Ever since a Chechen suicide-terrorist sank the Kursk, Muslims are quietly being purged from the Navy."
-- from a posting above
On what evidence is this charge made? Please post such evidence, or give appropriate links, here.
Provoslavni
I too would like to see evidence of that. If I recall correctly, the Kursk went down at the start of Putin's regime, some months after Yeltsin stepped down.
As for Greek Gurl above, Alexander the Great wasn't lionized as a Greek until very recently. Macedonia conquered the rest of Greece under him. Nonetheless, unless the people of Macedonia, who were part of Yugoslavia, not Bulgaria, choose to unite with Greece, that shouldn't happen.
infidel pride alexander the great was greek he spoke Greek not bulgarian macedonia was Greek in those days macedonia is a greek word itself
http://www.macedonia.info/
Hugh & Infidel Pride,
I remember reading about Muslims complaining about "being purged" from the military on one of the Russian online services. I don't remember which since it was more than a year ago. It may have been in Pravda or Novosti but I think it was on one of the Orthodox news sources. There were also some reports in Gazeta.ru about this.
However, a qich Google search did find the Muslim complaints about Christianization of the Russian military at Radio Free Europe. This article was about the proposal to appoint Christian chaplains in the military.
http://www.rferl.org/features/features_Article.aspx?m=03&y=2006&id=8C9A0F76-E2CB-459A-AF8C-9B9CDBA9E563
and this was put into effect a few months ago.
Muslims are not trusted by other soldiers and the purge is "informal" but still effective. The 4% figure is for the Russian military itself. There are, of course, special Muslim militsia units serving in Dagestan, the Tatar Republic, etc. but even these are under Russian command.
As for the Kursk. The credit for its sinking was claimed by the Chechens themselves. Almost immediately after the sinking of Kursk, the Chechen terrorist Kavkaz-Center reported that the explosion in the submarine was caused by a suicide bomber on board, a crew member originating from the Muslim region of Dagestan in southern Russia. Allegedly he blew himself up in support of Muslim fighters in Chechnya. Although this was however quickly dismissed by officials, it was enough to convince most Russian commaders not to trust Muslims in any sensitive area. If only the US were so careful.
ancient macedonian coins with greek letters not bulgarian
http://www.macedonia.info/coins.htm
I forgot one last thing. The RFE article above is outdated and like most US government public media was inaccurate to begin with. The Russian military chaplains are almost exclusively Orthodox and appointed by the Moscow Patriarchate. I was told that Kalmyk and Buryat Lamas are being trained to serve in some Mongol units. My source on this is a friend who is a priest in Yekaterinburg.
LONG LIVE A FREE AND PROSPEROUS RUSSIA!
WITHOUT ISLAM OF COURSE.....
Provoslavni, thanks for that info. We (and Mark Steyn) hope you are right.
'Provoslavni' - you're embarassing yourself, behaving like a hysterical woman. Your post directed at me bears no connection whatsoever with anything I wrote. None at all.
'pissedoffcanadian' - your last post directed at me indicates nothing more than that you are a comical slime-ball who has lost an argument.
'Greek Gurl' - you just hate everyone who's not from your village.
schegel you must hate yourself
shmoll
"The sinister poster who wrote that last sentence is clearly a moral reptile. I don't need to comment on it; it speaks for itself.
The latest Russian journalist to have been 'silenced forever' is one Ivan Safronov, a journalist for the daily newspaper, 'Kommersant', who was 'investigating claims of planned arms sales to Syria and Iran at the time of his death.'"
BOO HOO, for one journalist that was doing something worthwhile there were other useful idiots that were doing something useless.
For the posters above who obviously hate Greeks and it seems any Orthodox Christians, Alexander the Great and the Macedonian kingdom were Greek.
This is not a new event as some posters here have commented on, these claims are straight from the Marxist propaganda that influenced the Balkans so much.
The Macedonian royal family was proven to be of Argive decent wich means from the city state of Argos in the south. The Macedonian kingdom itself was a multinational force of Greeks and some non Greeks as well, this fact does not mean that the kingdom was not Greek then. If we look at the founding of Rome we will see there were 2 Italian tribes and one Greek tribe that founded this city, however if we were to employ the logic of the anti Greeks amongst us, Greeks have claims to Rome being Greek and thus maybe even Julius Ceasar was Greek too. But of course we are not out to steal other peoples history, we apparently need to defend our own on a daily basis wich in itself is proof that anti-Hellenism exists as much as anti-Semitism exists.
The Jews have faced many battles in their time, but Greeks I will say have fought more to preserve their own heritage than any other group ever. We put up with bullshit claims like Greeks were black as the American author who states based of the black pottery in ancient times were Greeks were black. I've read claims that all of Greek culture comes from Africa, that science comes from Africa and Asia, all this tells me is that my people have a history so great that every scum bag on earth seems to have a need to steal it. Good luck, Macedonia and Alexander were Greek and even if you don't want to believe it ask educated Egyptians, Indians, and even Persians, they all know who they fought, to this day I've never met one that says Alexander the Great was not Greek.
I'm going to say one last thing about the history of Macedonia, the map of Macedonia has changed many times, but the ones that people seem to consider these days was the map of the Roman province of Macedonia.
The Greek kingdom of Macedonia first appeared on the scene at approximately 550 BC, the original map of this kingdom was in the Pella and Vergina area adjacent to Mt. Olympus and in the Halkidiki pennisula. As the kingdom devoloped a military it expanded it's area by subjugating more tribes to the north which were both Greek and non Greek included. This is the thin veneer of fact that everyone seems to try and exploit to be evidence of a non Greek Macedonia, Macedonia in its conception never even came close to being along the Danube river, that came later with Philip II's expansion.
And now some genius out there is going to say why did Greeks call Philip the Barbarian? Very simple, it was an insult to a people who always insisted they were Greek, but even as Aristotle the famous Macedonian born Greek philosopher had stated once, people who are to stupid to govern themselves are not worthy of the name Greek. This might help with some insight as to why the City States in the south reffered to him as a barbarian. This also speaks volumes for people who know nothing of Greek habits. My parents are both from Thessaly adjacent to Macedonia, my parents came from villages 30 minutes apart. When my father met my mother and they were engaged, people in both villages reffered to each others future spouse as a xeno, or foreigner. I doubt that anyone in each village truly meant that the other party wasn't Greek.
I've never heard of anyone arguing that Aleksandr Makedonskiy was anything other than Greek. Have you got a persecution complex or something?
the fanatic is right theres so many people always trying to steal Greek history and claim it for themselfs like the finatic i also read the same crap that blacks where the first greeks at the same time i have also read on a neo nazi site that first Greeks where white aryans its quite funny how jealous people are of Greeks i guess theres only 2 things in life your either Greek or jealous that your not Greek
schmegel you must have conveniently stopped reading some of the posts above. There have been many claims against Greek history and the fact that Alexander the Great was Greek.
I do not have a persecution problem, but lately I've read here many posts that are obviously against anyone that is Orthodox Christian and now attacks on my own history.
I have always been steadfastly pro Israel, but it does concern me that many people on this site have no interest in the plight of anyone other than the Jews.
You are also a curious one as it seems you are most active on anything that mentions an Orthodox group, ie., Russians, Serbs and Greeks, both Greece proper and Cyprus.
I look forward to reading your next posts on subjects that involve Christian Orthodox groups, and I know what side you'll be on.
Actually to go back on how there always seems to be an anti Orthodox approach here, how many hippocites on this site constantly complain about the Russians selling arms to Iran? Those same hippocrites conveniantly disregard the US arming of every other country in the ME including the Muslim hordes making a home in Balkans. Is everyone here saying that only the US has the right to arm those that want us dead?
I personally would like to see that both countries stop selling arms, or in the US case stop giving away arms to those that want us dead. Let's just stop pointing fingers at the Russians because they are trying to be a player on the global scene as well.
The fanatic wrote:
"You are also a curious one as it seems you are most active on anything that mentions an Orthodox group, ie., Russians, Serbs and Greeks, both Greece proper and Cyprus.
I look forward to reading your next posts on subjects that involve Christian Orthodox groups, and I know what side you'll be on."
I must take issue with this accusation (though your last post was calm and considered, refreshing in its avoidance of the puerile insults so common in these parts).
Aside from here, the only postings I've made regarding Russia or Serbia recently were on the last thread about Kosovo. It seems you didn't actually read them, as they were all supportive of Serbia and Russia, defending both countries, particularly Russia (as I know more about this country), from the prejudicial misinformation peddled by one Morgaan Sinclair.