Turks protest Islamic-rooted government

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's big mistake was to his resolute opposition to all traditional theisms. Had he granted a real religious liberty rather than the establishment of scientific positivism, Turkish explorations of non-Islamic traditions might have made a truly pluralist Turkey.

Perhaps Ataturkian secularism, like Marxism-Leninism, is proving to be a very shallow and frail thing.

Turkey is another refutation of the simplistic theory that the antidote to jihad is democracy.
I hope the military intervenes because the current government poses a threat to individual liberties through its policy of creeping sharia. It's the tyranny of the majority in Turkey, not democracy.
Muslims need to understand that they cannot impose their religious laws on people, and that their breeding habits and immigration will not avail them of the means to subvert the rights of others.

Plenty more here:

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/04/29/300000-secular-turks-protest-turkish-government/

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/04/30/ameer-ali-blow-me-a-kiss/

But Turkey is only the beginning: Watch out for France tipping!

Where is the secular Turks theological opposition to the rule of the imams based on Islam’s scared texts?

Where is the support of the Muslims in the West, with all the freedoms of the West, for the secular Turks demonstrations against the spread of Sharia in Turkey?

Where are the western elites providing support to the secular Turks demonstrating against the spread of Sharia in Turkey? Heck, where is the opposition to the spread of Sharia in the West from western elites?

Maybe when Maximum Leader Pelosi finishes breaking bread with the mad mullahs in Tehran she can stop in Istanbul and speak out in support of freedom of conscience for all men. I wont hold my breath. The American hating Left that rules us from congress aren’t to big on the Rights of Man hear at home.

What city do you think good Muslims will nuke first?

So, when the shootings start in Turkey and France, will the rest of the world finally start calling the "War on Terror" by a more proper name? The entire facade of civility should have dropped away years ago, but better late than never...

"The ruling party, however, has supported religious schools and tried to lift the ban on Islamic head scarves in public offices and schools. Secularists are also uncomfortable"

I suppose these demonstrations should make up hopeful for Turkey.

But there is still the nagging question of how an Islamic party came into power to begin with?

Evidenly the majority of Turks have never really been converted to the principles of Democracy. They prefer the bondage of an Islamic state.

Molems need to understand that they cannot impose their religious laws on people...

Sure they can. Hell, I work just down the street from the very place where Sharia was first institutionalized in the United States: the Target flagship store that sits adjacent to Target HQ on Nicollet Mall right here in downtown in Minneapolistan.

They can, they have, they are, and they will. It's what I said: Islam is, in terms of self-effectiveness, the most successful ideology in world history.

Do the math. Jean-Nicolas Nicollet did.

It seems to me that Turkey is far more important as a place to see as a signal of what is likely to occur if more muslim countries "develop themselves." It has some serious baggage and the idea it can be westernized is belied by these underlying realities:

*Home of the Armenian genocide
*20% Christian before WWI, now less than 1% Christian. (genocide will do that)
*Worse than a KKK system of "justice" for its minorities--they get all kinds of hell, persecution, and torture.
*Religious freedom is not allowed (except for they use some Arafat-esque style diatribes to sell the west that they are civil--

Oh yes and Popus Benedictus Arnoldus proclaims a blessing on them and invites them to "just get along and join the EU." Let's go pray in the mosque and honor Ataturk, pope ratzinger, sure thing. All this while true Christian Apostles roll over in their graves!

Yet most in Turkey seem to prefer a "layer" of "artificial" secular government. All their government does is to lie about Turkey's past and present as it tries to put on a veneer of westernization. G-d help the EU if they back down and let Turkey in as a member.

The U S should force Turkey to either get real or deal with them as we should--like the traitorous liars they really are.

@Alarmed Pig Farmer:

I agree with you, Islam is making great advances in its agenda here in the USA.

However, I'd like to warn the true Muslims out there that are salivating at the idea of an Islamic Constitution forming the new underpinnings of Old Glory sometime down the road -- armed resistance is an old American tradition.

And if the Islamists held a rally, there would be 1,000,000 people participating. Just like in Lebanon, where the Hezbollah rally was by far the largest.

Considering how many family members of mine were raped and murdered by the Ottomans, seeing Turkey enter into a religionist Dark Age is something I believe they put upon themselves. They deserve what they get in my opinion.

We don't want a covered woman in Ataturk's presidential palace," said Ayse Bari, a 67-year-old housewife. "We want civilized, modern people there."

Turkey is not secular or mordern and kemal attaturk was not secular or civilized he massacred and cleasned orthodox christians from Turkey and wanted turkey to be a state for the Turks now Turkey is 99% muslim thanks to Attaturk there where more christians before.

I don't think the army will move on this, but I find myself happy that they threatened it. It emboldened the people to speak their minds, and the protests quadrupled immediately. That's a sure sign, too, that more people feel that way than feel safe in expressing it, a situation I think likely affects many other Muslim-majority countries as well.

The steady and relentless penetration of Turkish centers of power (which may include the junior officer corps in the Army) by Believers (as opposed to secularists) shows that the beneficiaries of Kemalism, the secular (which does not mean they are secular in the Western sense)Turks, were insufficiently aware of how important it was never to let their guard down, or to permit Erbakan, and then Erdogan, and now possibly Abdullah Gul, to take power. Those who deeply believe in Islam and wish to undo Kemalism will never give up, and those who oppose them cannot wait for a demonstration, no matter how huge (700,000 is a large number, but Turkey has 70 million people, and how many might be persuaded to show up on the other side, waving banners in favor of "true democracy"), to do their work -- the steady, day-to-day work of undermining the hold of Islam over the minds of their benighted fellows, who can also vote, the true believers among the Turkish masses.

And what if the army intervenes, as it has before? That may be necesary. Logically, how is the Bush admnistration going to keep prating about bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to "ordinary moms and dads" in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East if, for the interests of Infidels everywhere, the Turkish army's domestic coup must be supported?

Or will the American government, for the purposes of some supposed nedd to be "consistent" (the only consistency that counts should be the consistent need, always and everywhere, to weaken the Camp of Islam) start sounding like the terminally innocent-- or perhaps somehting more sinsiter -- E.U. bureaucracy that has been trying to limit the army's freedom of action? Especially distrubing have been some Germans in the E.U. upper ranks, who feel keenly a need to appease Turkey (with the millions of unintegrated Turks in Germany) than do bureaucrats from Spain and France and England and Italy.

From today's news, there is the case of "Olli Rehn, the European Union enlargement commissioner, who has been a keen supporter of Ankara's eventual accession to the bloc, warned the military to stay out of politics, saying the election was a 'test case' for the Turkish military's respect for democracy."

Turkey is very close to becoming another Islamic republic. The country is teeming with conservative Sunnis who looooove Saudi Arabia and their unholy cult of death.

Assalamau Laikum Foehammer and Alarmed Pig.

You are very perceptive and know that Allah's SWT flat earth policy through that which is Islam cannot be stopped...the train continues 24*7 and stops only to offload more of your friendly muslims/wuslims.

Many of the Kaffur (like Champ & Eisenhund) instinctively know this ....and even Foehammer is resigned ...he says "armed resistance is an old American tradition".

Eh....so is disarming by the police....

I think that despite the rhetoric ...when it comes right down to the crunch....because of the political process and the constitution of the Amerike...the USA will fall like a pack of cards....you will not fight bacuse it is against democracy...and the principles set out by of your founding ABU(s).

Peoples like Foehammer & the pig will help to rebuild it to the ISA...well better that than dying....after all the Amerike loves life....you keep telling me this...thus...prepare your grandaughters for Islam.

"...you will not fight bacuse it is against democracy..."

....the Americans will fight because America is a Republic, not a democracy.....

"Republic v. Democracy

by David Barton

We have grown accustomed to hearing that we are a democracy; such was never the intent. The form of government entrusted to us by our Founders was a republic, not a democracy.1 Our Founders had an opportunity to establish a democracy in America and chose not to. In fact, the Founders made clear that we were not, and were never to become, a democracy:

[D]emocracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.2 James Madison

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.3 John Adams

A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way.4 The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness [excessive license] which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty.5 Fisher Ames, Author of the House Language for the First Amendment

We have seen the tumult of democracy terminate . . . as [it has] everywhere terminated, in despotism. . . . Democracy! savage and wild. Thou who wouldst bring down the virtuous and wise to thy level of folly and guilt.6 Gouverneur Morris, Signer and Penman of the Constitution

[T]he experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.7 John Quincy Adams

A simple democracy . . . is one of the greatest of evils.8 Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration

In democracy . . . there are commonly tumults and disorders. . . . Therefore a pure democracy is generally a very bad government. It is often the most tyrannical government on earth.9 Noah Webster

Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state, it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage.10 John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration

It may generally be remarked that the more a government resembles a pure democracy the more they abound with disorder and confusion.11 Zephaniah Swift, Author of America's First Legal Text
Many Americans today seem to be unable to define the difference between the two, but there is a difference, a big difference. That difference rests in the source of authority.

A pure democracy operates by direct majority vote of the people. When an issue is to be decided, the entire population votes on it; the majority wins and rules. A republic differs in that the general population elects representatives who then pass laws to govern the nation. A democracy is the rule by majority feeling (what the Founders described as a "mobocracy" 12); a republic is rule by law. If the source of law for a democracy is the popular feeling of the people, then what is the source of law for the American republic? According to Founder Noah Webster:
[O]ur citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament, or the Christian religion.13
The transcendent values of Biblical natural law were the foundation of the American republic. Consider the stability this provides: in our republic, murder will always be a crime, for it is always a crime according to the Word of God. however, in a democracy, if majority of the people decide that murder is no longer a crime, murder will no longer be a crime.

America's immutable principles of right and wrong were not based on the rapidly fluctuating feelings and emotions of the people but rather on what Montesquieu identified as the "principles that do not change."14 Benjamin Rush similarly observed:
[W]here there is no law, there is no liberty; and nothing deserves the name of law but that which is certain and universal in its operation upon all the members of the community.15
In the American republic, the "principles which did not change" and which were "certain and universal in their operation upon all the members of the community" were the principles of Biblical natural law. In fact, so firmly were these principles ensconced in the American republic that early law books taught that government was free to set its own policy only if God had not ruled in an area. For example, Blackstone's Commentaries explained:
To instance in the case of murder: this is expressly forbidden by the Divine. . . . If any human law should allow or enjoin us to commit it we are bound to transgress that human law. . . . But, with regard to matters that are . . . not commanded or forbidden by those superior laws such, for instance, as exporting of wool into foreign countries; here the . . . legislature has scope and opportunity to interpose.16
The Founders echoed that theme:
All [laws], however, may be arranged in two different classes. 1) Divine. 2) Human. . . . But it should always be remembered that this law, natural or revealed, made for men or for nations, flows from the same Divine source: it is the law of God. . . . Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine.17 James Wilson, Signer of the Constitution; U. S. Supreme Court Justice
[T]he law . . . dictated by God Himself is, of course, superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times. No human laws are of any validity if contrary to this.18 Alexander Hamilton, Signer of the Constitution
[T]he . . . law established by the Creator . . . extends over the whole globe, is everywhere and at all times binding upon mankind. . . . [This] is the law of God by which he makes his way known to man and is paramount to all human control.19 Rufus King, Signer of the Constitution
The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost.

A republic is the highest form of government devised by man, but it also requires the greatest amount of human care and maintenance. If neglected, it can deteriorate into a variety of lesser forms, including a democracy (a government conducted by popular feeling); anarchy (a system in which each person determines his own rules and standards); oligarchy (a government run by a small council or a group of elite individuals): or dictatorship (a government run by a single individual). As John Adams explained:
[D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy; such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit, and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable [abominable] cruelty of one or a very few.20
Understanding the foundation of the American republic is a vital key toward protecting it."

Naseem,

You think because we love life we will choose to follow your example? Think again.

"Gentlemen may cry: peace, peace, but there is no peace. The war is actually begun!
...
Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me, give me liberty or give me DEATH!".

Patrick Henry

george_rem,

700,000 people came out against the views of their central government and risked the wrath of those million-plus who would have rallied for the other side. That there were so many who were willing to speak out against the imams and the ruling government should be a good sign.

If it were 7,000 or 70,000 you'd have more of a case, but 700,000 should not be taken lightly.

BB said:
"The U S should force Turkey to either get real or deal with them as we should--like the traitorous liars they really are."

How should we treat them? Turkey is a member of NATO.

If it were 7,000 or 70,000 you'd have more of a case, but 700,000 should not be taken lightly.

While I admire the people who demonstrated against islamic law, how many Turk's voted for these clowns?
A nightmare for the US is having a moslem Prez with a hijab wearing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, &4th lady.

"While I admire the people who demonstrated against islamic law, how many Turk's voted for these clowns?"

Good point. It can be argued that many people voted for them without realizing just how far they were going to take Turkey in the Islamic direction. The campaign rhetoric sounded good but the ramifications weren't fully understood. Now that they see, Turks are standing up and saying no.

The 700,000 who demonstrated against the government mean more than the million who might have demonstrated in support of the government precisely because of the creeping totalitarianism in Turkic politics.

"We don't want a covered woman in Ataturk's presidential palace," said Ayse Bari, a 67-year-old housewife. "We want civilized, modern people there."

Well to do so, you will have to get rid of islam, as it does not allow freedom (s) and demcracy. and 2nd of all Turkey you will have to own up to the genocide against non muslims.. start there and you may have some hope of being a modern country. the beginnings that is.

I don't think the army will move on this, but I find myself happy that they threatened it. It emboldened the people to speak their minds, and the protests quadrupled immediately. That's a sure sign, too, that more people feel that way than feel safe in expressing it, a situation I think likely affects many other Muslim-majority countries as well.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair

More PC LiEberal hogwash from haaaaavaaaad. Turkey is islamic is islamic is islamic. There are no subtleties there. Any variations of islam are merely cosmetic, for the consumption of the "infidels" they seek to conquer.

Freedom FROM islam comes at the barrel of a gun. Just ask the Serbs. The Original European Freedom Fighters. Along with the Greeks. Europe needs to learn from them.

As for the 10% of Turks who wish to live without islam.. why don't they take over the European side of Turkey and proclaim an autonomous Republic and eventually split off?

Turkey will always be islamic - unless we revert them back to being HUMAN BEINGS. They are Zombies of islam right now.

"We don't want a covered woman in Ataturk's presidential palace," said Ayse Bari, a 67-year-old housewife. - From above.

Yet they continue to insist on wearing the unholy wear in Western countries.

"you will not fight bacuse it is against democracy...and the principles set out by of your founding ABU(s)."

With all due respect, Naseem, do not underestimate the American spirit. We will fight. I am not sure what you mean be ABUs. I know in Arabic Ab means Father, so if you are speaking about our founding fathers, then you certainly must know that they most certainly fought for their freedom. Islam is indeed welcome in this country, but the sharia is not, the first amendment of the constitution says as much.

We fought for independence, we fought to maintain the Union and we will most certainly fight, when push comes to shove, to preserve the union.

That, I can assure you.

Off topic from Pakistan:

Fatwa issued against former cricket team manager

Ummah News Links

Once again the categories:

Why should we call the people who marched in Ankara "moderates" ?

Maybe some of them were real radicals for freedom. It's possible you know.

Modernist vs Revivalist mohammedans

Sound like a bunch of bigoted, racist Islamophobes to me.

CAIR should sue these 700,000 Turks for slandering the Religion of Peace.

Always picking on the poor Muslims!

What about the West's mistreatment of the American Indians?

And the Christian Inquisition?

And the Crusades?

And the Zionists?

Let's get back to obfuscating the real issue!

Turkey is not secular or mordern and kemal attaturk was not secular or civilized he massacred and cleasned orthodox christians from Turkey. (from a post above).

No, Turks' crime against humanity does not end there !

Evil, evil Turks !!

You know why dinosaurs and other species have become extinct ? It is because of them (turks).

They have wiped out entire planet by massacring dinosaurs, tyrannosaurus and other reptiles of that era..

The only survivors of the holocaust had to accept second class roles to make a living by starring in Jurassic Park, thus have themselves humiliated.

Evil, evil Turks !!

You know why the planet Mars is called Red Planet?

It is because of them (Turks) who carried mass murders and extermination of its inhabitants (Martians) thus greatly dishonoring the name of the Greek God of War.

The planet was all red by the flooding blood of the victims.

Mean, mean Turks !

Thank God, there was Vlad the Dracul who at least tried to stop them by having some of them impaled thus rightfully earning the name Christian Hero.

This, despite some liars who claim that Vlad was essentially Anti-Christ, because he inspired the fictional character Dracula to English writer Bram Stoker and that Dracula could be only chased away by showing the sign of cross.

Never mind them.

U-uh! I feel somebody breathing heavily outside my door. I think I have to sign off now..

It could be an evil Turk lurking in the dark, dripping blood from his mouth.

Time to go now!

In defense of Naseem.

The first rule of business is to not run out of money. Ask the airlines or Delphi, don’t make promises to your employees that you can’t keep. Our only difference is that Nations cannot seek bankruptcy protection. When the time comes, they have nothing to look forward to other than ‘sudden and massive cuts in social programs’ (Bush’s words). This day will come in the next twenty years and the result may make the Great Depression look like a down day at Dominoes Pizza.

Americans feel entitled to a decent quality of life and will not accept a drop in per capita income to the $2.6k in Pakistan. Sunni-Islam won’t be able to survive the transition. Shia-Islam won’t be able to survive the transition. Islam will need to adapt to survive. Perhaps NASCAR-Islam is the future, founded around the true reincarnation of the prophet Mohammed, Ted Nugent (PBUH). NASCAR-Islam considers Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims to be heretical dogs and pigs that need to be driven into the sea.

Be careful for what you ask for.

Here is the NYT article on this event. Elite this, elite that, the poor religious peaceful proletariat fighting against the bourgeois class and the ELITE!!! They are wrong! They don’t understand Islam like the NYT understands Islam!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/world/europe/30turkey.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Some may wonder why I always post articles from the NYT. As Hugh (Mr. Dr. Esq.?) posted at Dhimmiwatch, NYT is fulfilling its historical tradition. And we should be aware of the dangers posted in such a highly regarded newspaper, and that there are many dhimmwits, which will regurgitate its views on Islam. We should now our enemy.

Icarus_Project-

"Icarus" flew too close to the Sun, melted his wax wings, and fell to his death.

Daedalus, his father, having learned this harsh lesson, used his rationality to control his own over-reaching, and landed safely.

Maybe it's time for a Daedelus_Project instead?

And read the previous posts completely before an irrelelant attack that bears on nothing but an attempt to whitewash things like the Armenian Genocide and Christian ethnic cleansing from modern Turkey with cartoonish silliness.

Silliness needs to be rooted in some satirical kernel of truth in order to strike a target.

You appear to be just flailing, and only slapping yourself.

Silly.

Icarus_project,
Nowhere will you find people that hate every single Turk. Maybe you are projecting your beliefs and hatreds on other people, assuming how you hate others is how others hate you. If there are such ‘Evil Turks’, it would be those that deny the history of Ottoman domination of the Balkan peninsula, that deny the Armenian genocide, the blood tax on Christian children, the rampant slave trade up until 1908 in ‘Istambul’, The millions dead, the millions in slaves, the destroyed cities, depopulated farms, the piles of skulls. Deny Deny Deny. Not all Turks are bad, I met a couple, but the Turks as a people have not faced up and recognized basic historical facts (unlike the Germans, Americans, Western Europeans, and to a lesser extent the Russians and Japanese), and in fact are arrogant revisers of history that downplay the horrors they committed, but play up how great they are. And for this reason, like the Holocaust deniers, deserve to be considered delusional to the point of being under suspicion and unworthy of all respect.

Take care.

Thank you so very much Exsgtbrown.
Very well put.
One of the weapons that we fail to recognize that we have is the lack of understanding of our country and it's people.
The other day, I lost my temper with Abdullah and said some rough things. He responded with cliche ideas about who and what I am based on a mention of my being reared south of the Mason-Dixon line.
An assumption that I was a bigot, truth is he doesn't even know what color I am.
An assumption that incest would be on of our family practices. I have only one comment for that. "Remember, incest begins at home. LOL (old Southern joke)
If you think about it these assumptions about what we are really thinking based on cliche ideas can be used to our advantage.
The Arabs have used the ideas that we have about them, based on old movies and novels, for a long time against us to lie to us and disarm us. You know the cute little rag-headed guys selling rugs in a market stuff.
Point is you can use these timeworn ideas that other cultures have about us to our advantage. You just have to think it through a little.

"NASCAR-Islam considers Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims to be heretical dogs and pigs that need to be driven into the sea."

I beg your pardon.

What is NASCAR-Islam? :)

the last half of the last paragraph pretty much describes most of the countries that claim to have a democratic government,

democracy = mob rule (believe it!).

oh yeah,, now watch the presidential candidates and see which ones refer to America as a democracy.....few even know what type of government they have....

NASCAR-Islam is just a historical reference to Nationalistic and Darwinian forces that seem to be unleashed in the absence of morality. No slight intended to NASCAR.

"Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers --- already, you see, the world had fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing is Christianity! --- then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedenism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the Seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."

Adolf Hitler
28 August, 1942

BTW, I do know the apostrophe is not needed in *turks*, funny how things come out when I am hammering on the keyboard. You know what I mean?

Congress considers every letter means 1000 voters, so 700,000 sons of Esau protesting equates to 700 million or more people than is in Turkey....or a very secular majority in a Muslim state.

It is interesting though that some here think democracy is all peace, roses and only voting. The Greeks were quite vocal in rushing around and the Swiss are quite armed in their voting.
Democracy is MOB RULE and always has been. The biggest mob inflicts their will on others not by votes but by weapons and force.
A military getting involved is democracy in their stating their vote.

How President Bush will answer this is of course in public a call for the EU to have elections to replace the junta. Juntas do not mean that ordinary people do not vote. Chile voted and city counsels operated as did state and national government during their junta.
This is democracy in action in it's pure form and why America is supposed to be a Republic as none of this happens.

Oh and the definition of prating is: Speak (about unimportant matters) rapidly and incessantly.

President Bush nor any of his administration speak rapidly as they are all southern and western and incapable of speaking quickly.

"Secularists are also uncomfortable with the idea of Gul's wife, Hayrunisa, being in the presidential palace because she wears the traditional Muslim head scarf."

Hayrunisa Gul will be one of the world's youngest First Ladies. It appears that Abdullah Gul married her when she still in Middle School. In most countries, a thirty-something year-old man having a relationship with a thirteen-year-old girl would be a crime. But not to Muslims. This in itself should be enough to keep Turkeye out of the EC.

-------------------------------------------

Icarus_project,

What blog are you reading? Nowhere was hatred expressed for all Turks. In fact, this particular post is full of praise for those secular Turks who are protesting the Islamist government. Uniformly, we are opposed to the oppression of Sharia and the threat of Jihad. There is no racism at all here. Islam is NOT a race or nationality. It is a totalitarian ideology masquerading as a religion.

Incidently, not all Turks are Muslims. There are several Turkish nations in the former Soviet Union who are Orthodox Christians. The Gagauz Turks of Moldova and Ukraine is one example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people

prosvoslavi
What blog are you reading? Nowhere was hatred expressed for all Turks. In fact, this particular post is full of praise for those secular Turks who are protesting the Islamist government. Uniformly, we are opposed to the oppression of Sharia and the threat of Jihad.

why do people praise the secular Turks? they are supporters of attaturk who murdered and ethnicly cleansed the majority of Orthodox christians who where Armenian Greek Assyian i guess since Ataturk was secular it doest matter he has massacred christians even if the secularist where in power Turkey nothing would not change they would still deny the Armenian genocide Cyprus will still be occupied Turkish policy would remain the same Anti christian

I will never deny my true feelings towards the Turkish state, I hate it, always have and always will.

Having said this, I do congratulate those souls who have stepped forward and challenged their government and have said no to Sharia. This is more of what the world needs, however I have to remain sceptical of these people until proven otherwise.

Are these so called secular Turks against Islam, or are they interested in the style of military rule they have enjoyed for so long? Do these people care about their own history and say we have done some terrible things here and this should not happen again? Or are they saying hey I want to see my wife in a bikini on the beach, but who cares what we do to our neighbours?

I am curious how many of these people might agree with much of what Islam teaches, or feel the Grey wolves are a decent bunch? Do they feel the Agia Sophia should be allowed to function as a church, or do they think that Kafur issues are not important in their country? Do they think that Cyprus and Greece are deserving of the harassment they receive from their government?

There's a lot of unanswered questions here for me, but in the interim, a cautious bravo is handed to them by myself.

U-uh! I feel somebody breathing heavily outside my door. I think I have to sign off now..

It could be an evil Turk lurking in the dark, dripping blood from his mouth.

Time to go now!
Posted by: Icarus_Project

Maybe it's five of them.. carrying rope and knives so they can tie you to a chair, disembowel and castrate you before they mercifully slit your throat. All for the 'crime' of being Christian.

How should we treat them? Turkey is a member of NATO.
Posted by: PMK

I'd show them the door.

And the Zionists?

Let's get back to obfuscating the real issue!

Posted by: profitsbeard

You forgot the homophobes! Oh, I forgot.. so are THEY.

You are very perceptive and know that Allah's SWT flat earth policy through that which is Islam cannot be stopped...the train continues 24*7 and stops only to offload more of your friendly muslims/wuslims.

Never mind the "wuslims", you stupid racist. We have to worry about the Dhimmidia and the Dhimmiticians.

Once we get rigd of all these Leftygoodpeople you moslems will be in for a REALLY BAD TIME.

So I suggest you don't provoke us too much right now while we get sorted. Because when we do I do NOT want to be YOU.

:-)

Oh and one more thing. That's not a threat. It's merely a statement of fact. You moslems are the architects of your future. You say that you love death more than you love life.

You're working furiously on getting your wish.

Keep up what you are doing around the world and I have no doubt good things will come to you.

Naseem:
You are very perceptive and know that Allah's SWT flat earth policy through that which is Islam cannot be stopped...the train continues 24*7 and stops only to offload more of your friendly muslims/wuslims.

Oh, it can be stopped Naseem.
You have to remember that Muslims only form less than 1/6th of the World population. I forsee Europe becoming a killing ground and not a Muslim within it will be left alive.

It is just a matter of will.

Why dont the enlightened Turks go the whole hog and reject and curse Islam? It has caused nothing but problems for their society.

The fanatic,I can tell you are from one of those countries where the school books teach "hate".

Here are the answers to your questions:

We are not "so called secular Turks." We are "hard-core secular Turks".

They are not against Islam they want to keep all religion-based agendas removed from administration. I know this is a foreign concept for Orthodox Christian countries.

We haven't 'enjoyed' military rule. There were two coups where military gave the control back to the civilians right away. That was Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugel who enjoyed military rule for a long time.

Yes we do care about own history and we do acknowledge that bad things happened -the new motto is "peace at home peace in world". But of course we would retaliate to any hostile attack to our country.

And we also know that, comparing to other powers of the time, the Ottomans provided relatively better home for its foreign subjects. (Find me a Catholic state from those times where an Orthodox community survived or Jews were not abused)

Of course we do care about what we do to our neighborhoods. But you are day-dreaming if you think that we will just give up on all ongoing political disputes.

I don't know what Grey wolves is. It is probably a story of one of the competing religions.

the Agia Sophia should stay as a museum.

Neither Cyprus nor Greece receives harrastment from Turkey. If you mean political objections, yes Cyprus deserves what they are getting now. We had a huge opportunity to normalize the relations but it is a small country where small agendas matter most. We have only two unresolved issues with Greece (Cyprus and Agean sea borders).

Don't we wish we could wave a magic wand
and see the true intent of all those turks
in their arabian tent of islam?
so we could see the evil that lurks
in the heart of these men?
If only we could know.
Who are the believers
in name only?

It doesn't really matter
whether we know or not.
They must submit, even
if it's only to suffer in silence
they are slaves to islam and cannot leave.

We've tasted the fruit of the islamic tree
and it is bitter in our mouth:
it lies and steals our hard earned goods,
it rapes our women
and spews venom at our kindnesses.
It kills us and shouts
that its god is the best,
Finally the putrifying fruit
decays beyond repair and kills itself
in a bloody sacrifice to its dualistic god.


The message of the trilogy,
(the koran, the hadith and the sira)
the nut that finally blooms
into the tree of islam,
can never change.
Its message is there
for those who want to submit
to deluded prophet and his moon god
and the primitive, ruthless rule of islam.

Greek Gurl,

Like you, I have no use for the proto-Nazi Ataturk. His secularism was a sham since he was still culturally a Muslim. I suspect that many of these Turks who are marching against Islamic government are not Ataturk partisans but rather Alevis. The Alevis have only a very thin Islamic cover and, at heart, are pre-Islamic.

Most of the population of Anatolia is not racially Turkic at all. Real Turks look like Mongols. The bloodlines of most Anatolian Turks are actually Greek, Armenian, Assyrian etc. These once-Christian people were forcibly converted to Islam and Turkified by their Central Asian conquerers. We should work so they can overcome this Islamic colonialism and return to the Orthodox Christianity of their ancestors.

Neither Cyprus nor Greece receives harrastment from Turkey.

Posted by: nyoped

Nyoped,

If the bloody invasion and conquest of 40% of Cyprus by the Turkish Army is not harrassment, I don't know what is. Under the Northern Cyprus puppet government, Greek Cypriots whose families had lived there for over two-thousand years, were expelled, their property seized, and their churches desecrated and destroyed. Actually you're right. It wasn't harrassment. It was the rape of Cyprus by the Turkish army.

Armenian Genocide.

http://bibleprobe.com/christianmartyrs-armenia.htm

We have only two unresolved issues with Greece (Cyprus and Agean sea borders).
Posted by: nyoped

After you stole their Konstantinopoulos from them you can talk, can you? I am not a Greek but I think they might just have a few issues besides the Aegean islands you are attempting to steal from them.

Turkey is and will always be a lawless supremacist entity loitering at our [collective Europe's] doorstep.

Please gather up all your Turks from Germany and other European Lands and LEAVE US THE F*CK ALONE already!!

We are doing JUST FINE without you.

islam = DEATH. I want islam OUT OF EUROPE! Period.

BLOW UP THE mosks!!! Send the parasites HOME already!!

Posted by: BB at April 30, 2007 08:57 AM

GUESS you aint been paying att he Pope is against Turky into the EU?

And it was this same turkey goverment that would not allow the US forces to go into Iraq from the North remember!!

May 1, 2007
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI

More Islamic terrorist dead today!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epnwk1jWSvM&NR=1

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/30/195256.shtml?s=lh
Monday, April 30, 2007 7:50 p.m. EDT
Tenet: Al-Qaida's Nuclear Threat Real
YEA LIKE HIS SLAM DUNK??

Oh yea Armatiage CIA and Wilson and new book? Bad intel are we putting 2=2 together yet??

Stop taken sucker punches from this guy and his crew fight back!

Might want to dig a little deeper on the trucker who burned the hwy in CA. Remember they recruit in jail??
Hell bet he even when to the busted trucker school??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269307,00.html

ID CARDS FOR GREEN ZONE, U.S. EMBASSY UNCOVERED IN SUNNI STRONGHOLD AFTER IRAQ FIGHTING
Monday, April 30, 2007
"As a result of this operation, 3,200 roadside bombs have been prevented; 42 terrorists were jailed; enough weapons and explosives were captured to outfit an enemy infantry battalion," Townsend said.
And they confiscated a few items you might not associate with Iraqi insurgents: 100 cases of Smirnoff vodka and 50 cases of Johnnie Walker Scotch whisky.

NOW WHY WHISKY COULD IT BE ALL THEM BALKEN ISLAMIC TERRORIST OR HAVE THEY RUN OUT OF DRUGS TO GIVE THEM FALSE COURAGE??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269294,00.html
U.S. PUTS 29 FOREIGN PROPERTIES ON THE MARKET
Monday, April 30, 2007

WASHINGTON — Looking for a stately home or opulent office overseas? One in a posh neighborhood or overlooking an exotic capital? Maybe with a glorious or infamous past? The U.S. government may have a deal for you.
From Kinshasa to Katmandu, Bangkok to Bogota, U.S. embassies, ambassadorial residences and other diplomatic digs are up for sale as the State Department moves its employees to more secure locations, upgrades facilities and combines operations in multipurpose compounds.
Some 29 properties worth more than $205 million are now on the market in 21 countries, including a huge and historic embassy annex in the heart of London, large chancery buildings in Panama, Nicaragua and Nepal and homes fit for envoys extraordinary in Belize and Venezuela.
READ?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269198,00.html

Company: Mildly Toxic Chemical Commonly Added to Animal Feed
Monday, April 30, 2007
The discovery of tainted animal feed was merely the latest revelation about China's food safety woes, ranging from dye-tainted fish, and fake baby formula to the alleged use of ingredients intended for animal consumption to make snack foods.
READ THE WHOLE THING?

PS about the Turkish goverment these protest will do nothing seams that they are more afraid of the islamic terrorist who will do real damage But they could be wrong not to be afraid of this crowd People who have brains and Freedom don't like to give it up so easily!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
Ever notice looking from space the countries who's choice was islam in turnning deserrt? How the land seams to be fading from green to brown?

nyopad
Neither Cyprus nor Greece receives harrastment from Turkey. If you mean political objections, yes Cyprus deserves what they are getting now.

nyopad your ignorant and a liar Cyprus doest deserve to be occupied by you theive Turks and Turkey is harrasing and illegally occupying northern Cyprus. my familys homes where seized by the Turks in cyprus 32 years ago and as long as Turkey continues to occuppy my familys old homes and stop them returning and living in North Cyprus that is harrasment and theft call yourselfs secular or islamic i dont care your theifs and invaders.

And turkey continues to harras Greece by invading Greek Airspace over the Aegean islands

nyoped, you are something special. You come on here and say I am a hater, which
I myself have said I can be. You smugly state the Agia Sophia should remain a museum, showing the hatred you have for the Orthodox faith.

You also stated that under Ottoman rule we lived better, what planet are you from?

You pretend that your country is modern and forward thinking, and have no idea what harassment I'm talking about. How about the daily flights into Greek airspace by the Turkish air force? How about the claims on Greek islands, and how about the Turkish Navy threatening action against Cyprus if she drills for oil in her own water?

The Grey Wolves are a Turkish terrorist organization that believes that all non-Turks should be exterminated from any territory the Turks have occupied, of course you'll play stupid on that one.

What you have done in your response is convince me that my sceptical analysis of the Turkish mind is correct. You are a race of haters and an aggressive menace to all that come in contact with you, your stance against sharia law is only for the benefit of your Islamic state as you see it, there's no place in the Turkish heart for anyone but the Turk.

Most of the population of Anatolia is not racially Turkic at all. Real Turks look like Mongols. The bloodlines of most Anatolian Turks are actually Greek, Armenian, Assyrian etc. These once-Christian people were forcibly converted to Islam and Turkified by their Central Asian conquerers. We should work so they can overcome this Islamic colonialism and return to the Orthodox Christianity of their ancestors.

Posted by: Provoslavni

Thank you, you are absolutely right, not many people other than the above mentioned seem to know that.

nyoped is probably one of those mind screwed converts who relates with his oppressor more than the people he probably is related to.

The finatic
What you have done in your response is convince me that my sceptical analysis of the Turkish mind is correct. You are a race of haters and an aggressive menace to all that come in contact with you, your stance against sharia law is only for the benefit of your Islamic state as you see it, there's no place in the Turkish heart for anyone but the Turk.

well said The finatic Turkey is a racist state during the massacre of Armenians and Greeks in asia minor there slogan was Turkey for the Turks

Turks who are against sharia law dont want sharia law in Turkey for other reasons such as maybe it would be to restrictive on them as most Turks are into Drugs and sleeping with prostitutes but the secular Turks still have the same hatred for Orthodox christianity that hatred for Orthodox christianity comes from islam thats the part of islam that secular Turks still want to hold onto