Says Bolton: "I think they were testing British resolve in response to this provocative act and I think they already had their answer, which was that the British are not going to respond in a strong fashion."
"Iran accused of 'hostage' diplomacy," from Australia's ABC News Online, with thanks to JE:
The US State Department has accused Iran of using hostage diplomacy following the release of 15 British sailors and marines.The former captives, who were seized along with their patrol boats in the northern Gulf on March 23, have now returned to the UK after Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he had decided to free them.
With the Britons safely home, the Bush administration has lashed out at Iran, with State Department spokesman Sean McCormack calling the Iranian Government a regime that "views hostage-taking as a tool of international diplomacy".
US Defence Secretary Robert Gates says the British personnel did nothing wrong.
"I think it's clear the British sailors were well inside Iraqi waters when they were seized," he said.
And Mr Gates rejected speculation that America intended to release five Iranians being held in Iraq as part of a deal to free the Britons....
Meanwhile former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton said the crisis had ended in a "double victory" for the Iranians.
"In a way I think the regime in Tehran has won a double victory," Mr Bolton said on the US-funded Alhurra Arabic-language television network.
"They won a victory when they captured the hostages and they won a victory when they released the hostages.
"I think they were testing British resolve in response to this provocative act and I think they already had their answer, which was that the British are not going to respond in a strong fashion."
Well Iran certainly achieved its goals there. Who is next to test? Must be some other navies in that part of the world to whom they can show who is boss.
The ENTIRE incident was a well staged Farse. It was meant to serve two purposes . One to test the waters and the Reaction of Great Britain and the US , and the other was to win a PR Coupe at home. they were Gratious and gave Gifts and sent the Poor Pawn Sailors home to their Families after exploiting them on TV as a GIFT from the Iranian People.
" Hostage Diplomacy " sounds like the Dhimmie Equivalent of " ACT OF WAR! "
This can never be allowed to happen again. The West looks far weaker than it ever has to Islamic eyes.
"I think they were testing British resolve in response to this provocative act and I think they already had their answer, which was that the British are not going to respond in a strong fashion."
No kidding. What insight.
Phase 2: jihadi moves on Brit.
The West looks far weaker than it ever has to Islamic eyes. - MoBlows
That's becuase it IS.
Traitors, cowards, and appeasers run the show.
WHY did they so shamefully GROVEL. Why?? I want to know, I am baffled. . Were they tortured? They looked bouncy and cheerful from what I've see, certainly not traumatized. Have they no shame? And probably they are being cheered and greeted as heroes.
They look as pink and fresh and happy as the Eloi in Wells's Time Machine. If you'll remember, the Morlocks come out at night and eat them and they do nothing at all.
Everybody got goodie-bags. Taxable as income?
Among the gifts given to the captives in Iran were handicrafts, books, pistachio nuts, a Persian sweet called "gaz" and a vase.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23391544-details/Sailors+touch+down+at+Heathrow+-+with+their+goody+bags/article.do
Quote:
President Bush weighed in again this week in freeing the British hostages kidnapped by Iran. While Prime Minister Tony Blair quietly gets the credit and Iran's Ahmadinejad comes out looking like a responsible leader, the following facts are what really occurred.
Ahmadinejad was not even notified of the operation which was taking place to kidnap the British soldiers with intelligence which came from either the Russian or Chicom satellite tracking structure.
Ahmadinejad was furious, but dared not leave Iran for the United Nations as he would have been arrested for terrorism. In his hiding in Iran, the Revolutionary Guard on it's own planning staged this situation to regain it's own detained terrorists in Iraq held by America and in order to foment an exchange between America and Iran which Iran believes it can win with behind it's nuclear warheads.
Ahmadinejad upon knowing the facts backed the Revolutionary Guard's actions and hoped to force a showdown in the Gulf where they hoped to inflict enough damage to humiliate America.
His operatives even tried to gain the British Embassy and take the diplomatic corp as hostages for further leverage and human shields.
What entered next was the Iranian Supreme Council led by Ayatollah Khamenei who understood Iran did not stand a chance in the military war coming. His faction which leads Iran brought in a secret British military delegation to state that if Britain would let it's own soldiers apologize and admit wrong doing stating they were pirates and spies, that Britain would state they had violated Iranian territorial waters and that the Americans would release Iranian terrorists then the grinning baboon British military personnel would be released.
While the British public fumed and fumbled blaming America and their socialist neutered government and military just sat there, President Bush in order to help Prime Minister Tony Blair released quietly second secretary of the Baghdad Iranian embassy, Jalal Sharafi on Tuesday.
So once again, President Bush of the United States of America is handling a situation for a United States ally and is not getting credit and is being blamed by ungrateful louts.
:Unquote
hey brits on jihad watch,
don't worry about all the criticism, our brave lads cleared up southern iraq, handed it back to the pro-western government and now we can move on to mopping up afgan taliban forces.
well done lads, you are the best!!!
Dont worry shiites, America aint got the nerve to attack you. You will fight back and this is a no! no! way to fight.
poetcomic1
Not all of them. Apparently there were a few who refused to cooperate and were therefore not seen in any of the video footage released by the Iranians, and at least one of them was kept in solitary confinement. See the following links:
Video: The sailor who didn’t smile
Look at these two photos
I'm very interested to know what went on over there. In the video on the HotAir link the Brit commentators discuss how this is the first time they've seen the scowling guy.
I don't Blame the Soldiers , but i'd like to know how 15 People who will give up without any resistance , never face hardships or Duress , praise the Enemy and thank him for his hospitality all ended up in on the same boat in the Royal Navy?
That can't be what they train People to do. I could see if they were tortured or were being mishandled , but it appears they were well treated . so why within a couple of days of captivity were they on TV selling out their Mission and saying that Britain was wrong/ that's the hard part to swallow.
They literally were captured and then just rolled over . no wonder they were treated so well and were sent home as a GIFT with a GIFT from the Iranian people. whatever it was i hope it was worth the price.
There is absolutely no excuse for demeaning the actions of those that were abducted.Even if they were filmed dancing and singing.They did what they were supposed to do and that was survive.They may have even have known why they were relly captured,no matter they played the game and got home.
The way things really went down,the true and absolute facts will come out some day.But we all really know. It was Iran after all what else could be the reason?
As far as mopping up the mess in afghanastan well it's not our mess and ours alone and if it is then thats a sorry state to be in when you are supposed to have allies.Not to mention that some allies should have a greater interest in defeating islam wherever it can than others.
Then again i understand it's frustrating,what to do what to do?
hey brits on jihad watch,
don't worry about all the criticism, our brave lads cleared up southern iraq, handed it back to the pro-western government and now we can move on to mopping up afgan taliban forces.
well done lads, you are the best!!!
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer
were werent there,but come on brave lads dont just give them selves to a hostle force,and smile pretty for the camera.didnt england invent radar?their ship HAD to know they were comin,couple shots over the irainians bow would have stoped them cold,it was chicken shit for carter to leave OUR people with them for a year too,but we didnt have warships in the area when it happened.glad their back though.
As far as mopping up the mess in afghanastan well it's not our mess and ours alone and if it is then thats a sorry state to be in when you are supposed to have allies.Not to mention that some allies should have a greater interest in defeating islam wherever it can than others.
Then again i understand it's frustrating,what to do what to do?
Posted by: Dar al-harb
no you wont be mopping up afghanastan alone.but WE ALL need to defeit islam,just as much as they next guy,we either win as one,or disapear as one
The 'goodie bag' reference was a cheap shot. The behavior of the sailors and Marines was not consistent with the character of any of the many top-notch British military folks I've had the opportunity to meet.
Probably, then, tyranny develops out of no other constitution than democracy--from the height of liberty, I take it, the fiercest extreme of servitude.
-Plato
If Great Britain becomes a Dictatorship, I nominate either of the two scowling hostages from Burgundy Infidel’s photo.
"MoBlows" aka "arm chair warrior",
when were you last on a rubber dinghy facing iraqi insurgents and iranian revolutionary guardsmen?
i would suggest that you save your criticism for islamic jihadists, dhimmis and that bloke that looks you in the mirror every morning.
Burgundy Infidel
good reporting mate,
thank you for showing the truth, you have my deepest respect.
leon
I heard some mention of the scowling soldiers. I think it's a good representation of Europe right now. About 50% have lost the will to fight, but not the other half.
There's still hope for Eurabia yet, but time is getting short.
from Foehammers sight,and from Michelle Malkins:
Apropos of the British sailors and marines’ release and their humiliation at the hands of Iran, an American officer in Iraq sent me this link to the DoD’s code of conduct for US soldiers:
I
I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
II
I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
III
If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
IV
If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
V
When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
VI
I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
anybody know what the brits code is?
This is not the first time that the Brits have got themselves into hot water over their limp dick approach: Who doesn't remember the shameful pictures from Basra, (was it a year ago?) where an armoured personnel carrier was attacked by a violent mob, who firebombed and stoned the fleeing Brits, who ran for their lives and didn't fire a single shot and left their equipment behind, pathetic!
I don't believe that the soldiers are cowards, but their officers who have somehow decided that this is the way to go are seriously misguided.
This is OT, but it keeps popping up whenever Muhammedans argue that Christianity is 'just as violent' as Islam: The so-called 'verse of the sword:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/mackays_jesus_was_a_terrorist/
Hugh Mackay dreams up a literal interpretation of a familar passage of the Bible to better pretend there’s some analogy between Christian bible bashers and Islamist throat slashers:
Even the most devout Christians, for instance, are inclined to play down passages in the New Testament where Jesus is presented as saying things such as: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the Earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” - especially when they are trying to distance themselves from radical Islamists.
Which Christians, Hugh, are nervously “trying to distance themselves from radical Islamists”? Until you came along, I doubt any imagined there were commentators stupid enough to bracket them with murderers.'
And another thing:
It seems that the Australian army is also infiltrated with Muhammedans who have already started to steal rocket-launchers:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/04/05/the-inevitable-result-of-islamic-infiltration-army-expert-in-rocket-theft/
leonthepigfarmer
My pleasure. There's definitely more to this story than meets the eye. Everything I've been told by American servicemen who've served with British servicemen has been very positive about them. They also like Canuck soldiers and Diggers too (as well as S. Korean soldiers, for what it's worth).
If this whole debacle of the smiling hostages was the result of a "softening" in the training of British sailors, then it should be recognized and rectified, immediately. I have a feeling the scowling guys are Royal Marines. They have a very badass reputation (much deserved), and no way would they comply unless there was extraordinary pressure behind the scenes. We'll just have to wait for the details.
---
Foehammer
Per my comment above to leon, did you notice that Brit commentator in the video who said that he thinks one of the scowling non-participants was thinking, "I'm not having it"? There are still many Brits (especially marines) who take Churchill's words to heart - "never, never, never surrender". Indeed.
Sometimes I wonder if this website is nothing more than a chronicle of the West's death by a thousand cuts, with a few gains made here and there but does not amount to much. It has been nearly 6 years after 9/11 and people don't have a freaking clue. Apathy combined with a twisted modern liberal outlook that some of our leaders have is deadly. I used to think that the dar al harb and dar al Islam were in a stalemate in this ongoing global war but no, it's far from a stalemate. Dar al Islam is winning so far. I bet by the time I'm middle aged, I will read a post, perhaps the last, that says "Shariah law voted as law of the land".
Remove this post if this bums you out Mr. Spencer. I don't want to dismiss your work. But things are still the same. Nothings happening. I think a recent Bob Dylan (I see you're a big fan of his) song goes "I used to care but things just change". It was on the Wonder Boys soundtrack.
wrathofasma
The people are getting a clue. Many clues. These societal movements take time -- we're used to thinking in soundbites, or in quick historical references: "9/11 was just like Pearl Harbor".
Unfortunately it wasn't. It was "an aberration, a fluke, an impossibility". In 230 years no one has ever hit us like that out of the blue besides the Japanese, and our relations with the Japanese were publically known to be poor before 12/7/41 (because the MSM deigned to inform the populace about that, as opposed to the total whitewash they imposed about how the Ummah felt towards us before 9/11, that they hated us because of Israel, not because we're Infidels) so, 9/11 was a "fluke" and can eventually be ignored, and the people can go back to watching American Idol and the saga of Anna Nichole Smith's semen trail.
But we should really be looking at this period of time as a re-run of the 1930's. Some people back then, not just Churchill, clearly saw the danger and called it out, and others (unfortunately the majority) said, "Oh, you're just imagining things. You're a war-monger! We can work with Mr. Hitler, he's a reasonable man."
Just have patience, and slowly but surely more people will be forced to admit what they don't want to acknowledge. Just look at NRO and other "conservative" institutions. In fact, if you have about fifteen minutes, go to townhall.com and read the comments of Dinesh D'Dhimmi's recent column (I think it was Tuesday?) and observe the ratio of pro- to anti- islam comments.
People are getting a clue.
wrathofasma:
Many share your fears and pessimism. If I was not a person of faith, I admit that I would be capable of just giving in to the sense that we were slowly dying. However, it is a holy season---Easter and Passover, so maybe a look beyond reason is appropriate?
I've been re-reading much of the Old Testament in recent months. Focusing on the various trials and tribulations of Israel---and such analysis does bring reason for optimism, in a non-naive good can persevere kind of way.
The good in Man has always been subject to self-destructive behavior. Bad decisions, corruptability, seduction, etc. Yet we Man continues to exist, development, and grow.
The Israelites are rescued from Egypt as a result of divine intervention but shortly thereafter engage in idol worship. Samson has ever reason not to trust Delilah, but repeatedly does so to his own destruction.
Our history is filled with failures, and we are not excused from accountability of those failures. Yet despite our apparent efforts to actually bring about our destruction, it never seems to actually happen---no matter how we deserve it.
Given the West's lack of interest in confronting Hitler in the late 30's, a rational person had every reason to believe that the Axis would prevail. When the USSR and Germany signed their non-agression pact, what were the Vegas odds on victory? In 1939 and 1940, what were the prospects for victory?
In the Cold War, we survived the Carter Presidency, a hyped up by naive "peace movement", useful idiots as far as the eye could see, cracks in the Western alliance, and a PC culture. In 1979, who thought the West would prevail against the USSR and that the Berlin Wall could fall in our lifetimes?
We cannot take credit for our survival to date.
My typos and other errors are getting out of hand---I hereby promise not to post in the odd hours of night when my writing ability decomposes to that of a child
God Bless the West! Happy Easter! Joyous Passover!
Fat, jiggling beneath the arms of older women, pulling the levers of slot machines, is a symptom of a successful society.
That success was built upon the shoulders of men who scowl at people like the Iranian leadership.
Decadence has a way of working itself out. Tonight, I'm inspired by two.
When the USSR and Germany signed their non-agression pact, what were the Vegas odds on victory? In 1939 and 1940, what were the prospects for victory?
[...]
We cannot take credit for our survival to date.
Posted by: JSobieski
Listen.. I am on your side so please don't slam me if I bring up a few points.
What makes you think that the pat means anything in regards to the future?
Maybe Germany and Japan had a greater ethnic cohesion and were less ideologically whipped in line.. although many will find this hard to believe - I urge you to at least contemplate this.
History does repeat itself but it doesn't automatically dispense Justice!
If it did, Jews would return to Mecca and Medina and rule thereover rightfully. One can dream, right?
At this moment however, we are contemplating the survival of our Western Civilisations which we hold so dear against the most insidious onslaught that the World has ever faced.
The enemy has adapted to our psychology and to our means within the space of less than 50 years.
The founding of the State of Israel has given our unimaginative and uninspired foes great cause for effort indeed.
With machinelike relentlessness they have managed to identify and break down our self-inherent survival mechanisms.
Where they saw no possiblity for military victory they logically opted for victory in our legal systems and our courts.
They - these eternal aggressors that they are - managed to slip into the victim role while casting those whom they've persecuted for centuries and whom they continue to persecute until this very day via the means described above - PLUS the means of military terror - thus cunningly undermining our very foundation of self-defense by appealing to the very foundation of the Societies they seek to destroy - our hard-won Humanism.
Any atrocities they commit are now shrouded in the mantle of "noble savage" vicimhood. They have found the Achilles' heel of the very Humanism they so deviously exploit. And they are mining it for all it is worth.
While we, ie. "the West" are bound by High Moral Imperatives this eternal enemy of ours is free of all moral constraint in the pursuit of its never-ending goal: the imposition of the World-wide Calipate. The rule of Islam. The worldwide imposition of Shariah.
Contrats the "outrages" of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo with the multitudes of beheadings not only in the fied of battle in Iraq but also in Indonesia and elsewhere where they have cut the heads off of Christian school girls and Buddhists and Hindus alike.
Vast portions of Western Media and even governments are rolling over to provide special privileges and accomodations to "moslem sensitivities". See building of Mega-mosks and segrateated swimming and other special accommodations in the "lands of the infidel" aka "dar-al-harb.
Which means OUR LANDS, people!
Immigration 'rights' which were meant to protect persecuted peoples have been turned into a weapon of Global Jihad.
The self-reflection of our Western Psyche after World Wars and Coloniaslim have thus become the instruments of our institutionalized demise.
As much as I wish this weren't the case, as much as I wish to avoid the incontrovertible logic of it all, they are using our very Humanity against our very selves and our Nations!
The divisions and fault lines within our societal fabrics are being expertly subverted and exploited by an enemy which is weak in military terms- but so very strong in its very singleminded aim to impose their "religious" dictates world-wide.
Why else would "liberals" who support gay rights and women's rights and minority rights let themselves be made into useful idiots to be put like mules before the Cart of Global Jihad?
Remember, Jihad is ANY MEANS NECESSARY.. Jihad is not only military and terrorism.
Like Mahomet himself said in the Koran: "Behold, I have been made victorious through terror"
To ignore what is plain to read is cowardice in the face of better knowledge. it is now up to us to formulate a way out of our corrupt entanglements with the regions of the world which seek this "Endsieg", the Final Victory, if we are to survive as the Free Peoples we vainly consider ourselves to be.
The enemy is relentless and it has been greatly encouraged by our persistent retreat.
The answer is not a military one for the most part. The answer is however, an uncomromising conscience and insistence of our Universal Ideals.
Those who cannot accept these ideals deserve no quarter among us.
Fight on, dear friends.
VIVE LA RESISTANCE!
Good article on Faith Freedom International (Ali Sina's site) comaparing the Quran and Mein Kampf: http://www.news.faithfreedom.org
"In a way I think the regime in Tehran has won a double victory," Mr Bolton said on the US-funded Alhurra Arabic-language television network.
"They won a victory when they captured the hostages and they won a victory when they released the hostages.
I think Mr Bolton's one victory out there. They had a TRIPLE victory, because the Iranians gained a propaganda victory whilst they still had the hostages.
"Dont worry shiites, America aint got the nerve to attack you. "
.........It is not the Americans the Shi'ites have to worry about...it is the other Muslims....
.......In Case you do not keep up with the current events in the world...Muslims are killing Muslims at about 100 per day in Iraq alone....much more around the world...
a Muslims worst enemy is the other Muslim in his neighborhood...
Heard yesterday on my local early morning talkradio show that what happened was that quietly Iran got word that there are two American aircraft carriers, one of them the Nimitz, a powerful aircraft carrier which would be set to take action should Iran still be holding unto the UK solders. Those aircraft carriers are or are going into the Persian Gulft area. Iran in other words had ended up out of nervouses stress peed their pants and decided to prevent any possible reaction, let the solders go.
Blair may have told Ahmadinejad...Hey look buuddddy, I won't interfer with you , but I don't speak for those unpredictable yanks.....Turn our boys over now, I can't say what will happen tomorrow....and you do know the yanks really don't like you anyway....and don't count on me to stop them....your move...buuddddy.
It is good that the sailors have been released and that their captivity is now at an end. However, this is not a victory, the whole episode has been a humiliating defeat for the United Kingdom, its armed forces, its people and especially for its Government. Iran controlled the situation from begining to end and the British Governement appeared to be no better than a passive bystander.
I hope that lessons can be learned so that this sort of crisis never happens again. This does not mean that Iranian waters should be avoided at all costs, but that rules of engagement and military planning prevent the ignominy of such capture in the future. I certainly do not blame the sailors who were taken, nor do I blame the Royal Navy that didn't have backup in place for the situation that transpired - my scorn is placed solely and squarely on the shoulders of the British Government. We have ridiculous and self defeating rules of engagement in Iraq that hamstring our forces and make them ineffective and in some cases unable to even defend themselves. This is totally unacceptable and our armed forces should not have their hands tied behind their backs by a short-sighted and incompetent Government.
Iran still committed an act of war and the criminals that organised the kidnapping still walk free. Our armed forces stand humiliated and our country is seen as weak and indecisive. I suspect that we will not have long to wait before the criminal regime in Tehran tries something else. The United Kingdom needs to stay vigilant; it needs to increase military spending to ensure that our armed forces are both larger and better equipped. We live in an increasingly unsafe world and our armed forces are all that stand between us an servitude. If we cannot defend ourselves then any other spending is pointless.
Finally the hostage crisis has illustrated why Iran should definitely not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. The British Government must redouble its efforts on this particular issue as we cannot afford to become the victim of nuclear blackmail from the Islamic Republic of Iran. We must maintain a firm stance on this and be willing to wage war on Iran if that is the only way to do this. Anything else is just appeasement and we saw where that lead in the 1930s. Learn the lessons of history!
One day you may see an updated version of a film.....The Empire Strikes Back!......
at one time or another, Britain was momentarily hampered by the likes of the slashing vikings, the all powerful romans, and the fanatical Nazis.....now we see the Islami thrill kill machine....
.....the end result will be the same....Once the Brits get fired up....the invaders will be vanquished and Number 10 will still stand, Robin Hood will still be in the history books, England will still be neighbors to Scotland and Ireland...
....The British Navy will still be a grave concern to those who oppose freedom.....
......On the surface, UK has suffered a small blemish....do not discount the spirit of the Brits....who like the sometimes insipid Americans...are slow to react....
...but react they will and they will emerge victorious...
I have to agree that Britian didnt respond in a forceful way.
Nah.Real scenario went like this...
Blair: Hello Mahmoud.This is Tony.Listen,I've been thinking about a deal which would benefit your great Islamic Nation.
Little Hairy Man: You not deceive me with Infidel words Bliar Blair. I got your 15 spies,we
put them on trial for Espionage.Men sailors will
be hanged from crane in Sports Field : woman will
be stoned to death for being on her own without
hijab talking to many men.
Blair: Please don't do that.Islam is a peaceful,tolerant Religion.Prince Charles is a secret convert and I've been thinking about becoming a Muslim myself. Actually Cherie would look better in a
burka...
Little Hairy Man:No bullshiting a Shia,sunni.
If Allah speaks to you I listen-if it is Great
Shaitan or America,I will behead you myself. On
video.As soon as our beloved Mahdi gets out of well.
Blair[laughs nervously]Sort of Guru,what? How interesting.I'm all for diversity and Multi-culturalism,myself. Which brings us to my proposition.I've heard Iran wants to attract more
Western tourists to your lovely country?
Little Hairy Man: Yeah.Infidels are unclean;they touch alcohol and hairy unclean dogs,smoke and watch lewd television like 'The Three Little Pigs.'But they are the only ones who can afford
our Hotel Prices.
Blair:Right.Agree with you Mahmoud...Sheik.So my
idea is to show 15 sailors on Iranian T.V ENJOYING THEMSELVES.Leave it up to you to show
wonderful Iranian food eaten by sailors,tasteful
curtains,Iranian vases and furniture...Western
tourists will flock to your great country when
they see the telly pictures.
Little Hairy Man:But what about putting them on trial? Iranian people need hangings and stonings
to understand our glorious Islamic Revolution.
Blair:Trust me,my friend.My idea will make you very rich and bring many Westeners to Iran.I shall mention a package holiday to Gordon & several other tiresome ministers-kidnap them if you like & keep them in a a secret
prison...
And the rest,as they say, is History.
Iran also provided a lesson. They taught us that complete submission is rewarded.
agreeing to being a slave is never a good policy
Churchill's speech to the Royal Society of St George in 1933 springs to mind.
"Historians have noticed, all down the centuries, one peculiarity of the English people, which has cost them dear. We have always thrown away after a victory the greater part of the advantages we had gained in the struggle. The worst difficulties from which we suffer do not come from without. They come from within. They do not come from the cottages of the wage earners; they come from a peculiar type of brainy people, always found in our country, who, if they add something to its culture, take much from its strength. Our difficulties come from the mood of unwarrantable self-abasement, into which we have been cast, by a powerful section of our own intellectuals. They come from the acceptance of defeatist doctrines by a large proportion of our politicians. But what have they to offer, but a vague internationalism, a squalid materialism, and the promise of impossible utopias?
Nothing can save England if she will not save herself. If we lose faith in ourselves, in our capacity to guide and govern, if we lose our will to live, then indeed our story is told."
Don't bet on it.
It might be helpful if we combined this shameful episode with the other shameful episode that's still going on: Pelosi's trip to the Middle East. Not only is she violating the Logan Act and Art. II, Sec. 2, of the Constitution. But also, to people who are interpreting the hostage-taking by Iran, she's announcing that, if her party wins the presidency next year, our forces in the Gulf may start to behave as the British did.
Her party will start to reduce the American armed forces to the British level.Our diplomats will be instructed to treat the ruling thugs as legitimate heads of state.Our soldiers, sailors, and marines will be taught to be multiculturally sensitive; our forces will not react to a blatant act of war and will later thank the perpetrators for treating them so munificently.
Regardless of whether you support or oppose our war in Iraq, it's important to take a lesson in domestic politics from the Iranian act of war against the British; that lesson is, if you wish American forces to react as the British did, then vote for Pelosi's party next year.
"Her party will start to reduce the American armed forces....."
....The dhimmicrats will destroy the military.....
The Iranians got their coup here no question.
And in other news, a raodside bomb, very likely Iranian manufactured, kills 4 British troops. OF course, the people in the photograph are smiling for some unknown reason, rather than that their Islam makes them happy to see infidel troops killed.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/picture_gallery/picture_gallery/0,,30200-1259511,00.html
"Who remembers the Armenians?" Hitler asked his generals, as they were planning the "final solution" to the Jewish question.
"No one!" exclaimed Hitler, referring to the 1.5 million that were murdered by the islamic turks in 1915.
Does history ever repeat itself? You know the answer; and appeasement is a very high price to pay a murderer.
The iranians have been emboldened and the islamics have been empowered by British and American politicians, such as blair in London, and shapiro in Texas with her gang of 20 supporters in the legislature there.
Unfortunately, the little people will eventually pay a price in their own blood for the cost of appeasement that their "chic," smiling, handsomely dressed representatives, have negotiated on their behalf.
In the end, they we will all discover that Spencer's mythological "moderate muslim who simply wants to live in peace," never really existed.
Indeed, who remembers the Aramenians? Just like the holocaust, many would like to deny it ever happened.
bigcatgirl13106
"Heard yesterday on my local early morning talkradio show that what happened was that quietly Iran got word that there are two American aircraft carriers, one of them the Nimitz, a powerful aircraft carrier which would be set to take action should Iran still be holding unto the UK solders. "
thank you america!
while i deplore acts of vandalism and violence the british people have been pushed so far, by cultural and imperial islam, that some have had enough and decided to take our back country with force.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/nottinghamshire/6532317.stm
coincidence that this happened same time as this iranian nonsense? imagine what would've happened if iran had killed those guys?
Allahfanculo:
God helps those who help themselves---we are definitely on the same side. The past is no guaranty of a future, and people in the past did not rest on their laurels and just figure things would "work out."
When I think back to how hopeless things appear in the past, it makes it easier for me to witness the self-inflicted wounds of the present. There was a lot dhimmi-like behavior in the Cold War---a lot of self-inflicted wounds by a culture and a media that seemed anxious to impose defeat from within.
These things are said to give hope, and for no other reason.
We each have a role to play. For fans of Lord of the Rings, the scene where King Theoden leads a cavalry charge in the Battle of Gondor comes to mind---he had no reason to think success was possible and he died in the battle---but it was exactly what was needed at the time in the big picture of the War.
No doubt Mr Spencer will make a new thread for the details of the mistreatment the Brit Sailors endured while in captivity...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6533069.stm
I doubt he will make a thread asking why some people turn on their friends and allies as has happened on this site over the last few days
Many posting on this site expressed support for the service personnel. I hope there is a plan to strike back in the near future. I do not begrudge the actions of the service personnel, but the apparent concerns about causing an "international incident" are troubling from a public policy perspective. If our folks are walking on egg shells in the face of purposeful acts of aggression, we are not going in with the proper perspective.
Today we get to find out if the Good Friday attack rumor is true or not. Smart money says no---but the rumor probably helped out with the hostages.
I am glad that the Iranians didn't try to "convert" the sailors/marines.
"there are two American aircraft carriers, one of them the Nimitz, a powerful aircraft carrier which would be set to take action"
....do not rule out a future action....Ahmadinejad has been warned....but he does not listen too well....
The Aircraft carriers are fearsome weapons of war, but it is the Nuclear subs the Muslims should fear...they carry far more firepower than the aircraft carriers and you just never know were they are.....
...have you noticed, the US Navy is building up not downscaling....big things loom in the future...
How about Iranians abroad? Read this: Canada cannot deport Iranian gangster?
"Iran still committed an act of war and the criminals that organised the kidnapping still walk free. Our armed forces stand humiliated and our country is seen as weak and indecisive."
Aeneas; The soldiers are back and safe. It's fine...You have an excellent military, brave soldiers and a fine fighting force. When have you not backed us or us you? It's just another mark against the Iranians. It's our propoganda coup. The truth is out. Amina-asshat will now try for something bigger and better building the case against Iran for us bit by bit.The west looks weak. Great...then the line is crossed and the BIG BANG. Oh sure it will be tough but be certain...They will get their heads handed to them on a platter and then no one will give a shiite. All those pious mullahs...those chest puffed out military geniuses in the gold braided baseball caps...Whooo baby...sweet!
Just concurring with JSobieski's above postings, the first addressed to wrathofasma and the second offering seasonal greetings.
I would like to join with him in offering somewhat belated Passover greetings to all Jewish posters and lurkers at this site. The Passover/ Pessah: a historical feast of deliverance from slavery, effected by a God who acts in time and space and history, 'interfering' with the Powers That Be. A God who walks with his people. I am sure He was there for you, blessing the Seder.
And Paschal greetings for Sunday, to all Christian posters and lurkers.
Yes, Jews and Christians are quite, quite mad. The Jews declare that YHWH, HaShem, the LORD, rescues people from imperial slavery. Christians insist, furthermore, that He has defeated even death, within history, by resurrecting that Word who appeared within history in the humble form of a Jewish rabbi and was executed by imperial Rome. Believing these things we reject all inshallah fatalism, all despair, all blind submission to 'the Way of the World'. We will not bow down. Mohammed may gloat over 600 Jewish martyrs that he beheaded: we can only stand in awe of their magnificent refusal of Islam, their kiddush ha-shem. Mohammed sneered at us - at Jews and Christians - because we believe ourselves to be God's beloved children. (I think deep down he bitterly envied our sense of security).
To all other non-Muslims, to Hindu, Buddhist, atheist or agnostic: I accept that you cannot or do not share the faith of Jew or of Christian, but at least...understand, at this time of the festivals of Passover and of Easter, that this faith - in a God who is an infinite, life-giving, liberating fire of divine love, maker of promises, keeper of covenant, God-with-us - is the source of our refusal to despair as we struggle to withstand the jihad that seeks to lay waste to the world.
Remember what early Western civilization once did to the huge Iranian army and navy about 2500 years ago? How the far outnumbered Greeks pummeled the invading Iranians first at Marathon, then at Thermopylae, then at Salamis, then at Plataea? Until the only Persians left alive were running home, starving to death?
The new movie the 300 is in some ways inaccurate, but in essence not far off the mark. It's true that a mere three hundred Spartans, together with a couple of thousand other Greeks, for three days stopped a huge Persian army of perhaps a quarter million men at the pass of Thermopylae. In fact the huge Persian army could only get through the pass after three days of trying, when a Greek traitor showed the Persians another way around so that the Spartans could be surrounded and attacked on both sides at once. Leonidus, one of the two Spartan kings (the Spartans didn't like to repose too much power in one man, so they had two kings, either of whom could be removed from power if he disobeyed Spartan law), was leading the resistance at the pass, and when he learned that the Persians were soon going to be surrounding them, refused to leave. Spartans were extremely loathe to surrender to any enemy. And an oracle had said that one of the conditions for Greece being saved from the Persian onslaught was that a Spartan king give his life. About fourteen hundred other Greeks decided to remain with Leonidus at the pass, to await encirclement and hold off the Persians as long as possible. Thus they bought the rest of Greece more time to prepare, and created an immortal example of what free men together could do. Little did the Persians suspect that their huge navy would soon be wiped out by the much smaller Greek navy -- mostly Athenian triremes -- using a strategy similar to that of the Spartans at Thermopylae. It happened in the bay of Salamis south of Athens, and Aeschylus himself was there fighting and later wrote a famous tragedy about it, The Persians.
Of course we can't follow the example of the ancient Greeks in every respect, but when we feel outnumbered and the cause seems hopeless, we can take inspiration from them as the founders of Western civilization.