Virginia Tech shootings: "no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack"

From the Fox News web site version of the story:

The students and faculty were barricading themselves in their classrooms after what one person described as an Asian male wearing a vest opened fire.

Asian Male? Oh, stay tuned, people. This could get very very interesting. And if it is true, I can't wait to see how much PC Tip Toeing will done by the slime in the media, the government, law enforcement, and from officials of the University.

Very interesting. In the UK, Asian is the term often used to describe Pakistanis (as well as Indians), who are southeast Asian. This term is not usually used here, especially by a college student who was the one who first used it in this case.

Stay tuned indeed.

They can throw all the resources they want at this investigation. It still doesn't mean we'll get the truth or a likely/probable motive. Remember the mall shooting in Utah last February by that Bosnian Muslim kid? Has the public been told why that rampage occurred? I'm not saying today's massacre was a case of sudden-jihad syndrome. I'm just saying that if it was, the authorities will never inform the public. What do they think? That regular Americans would act like muslims & go on a murderous rampage after receiving such news?

slaughtering innocent people, no matter who the killer is, is a terror incident....

What I find very interesting is that the shooter is most likely NOT a student living on campus, and probably not a student at all. Why?

1) A student would not be able to smuggle ammunition and handguns into his room with roommates very easily. In my experience, such things are pretty transparent in a tight dorm living space.

2) If we're dealing with a student from VA Tech, he most certainly would have been identified by now. How many "Asian" students do they have? A quick profiling by racial records and copies of student photos from ID cards and presto.

3) If the shooter lives on campus -- then they already know who he is. 31 victims + 1 dead shooter. It's not too hard to do the math from on-campus housing. Someone is going to be missing a roommate.

4) If he's not living on campus, the chances of the shooter not being a student at all increase.

5) The officials have refused to even give a description of the shooter -- not if he's young, old, black, white, etc. That's very interesting.

6) This shooter had a very good plan, like locking the building doors closed to keep help from intervening and the students trapped in the building -- and he's supposedly killed himself. Do all such shooters always kill themselves? What would be the point of killing "randomly" if not for some very serious agenda. Ideology makes more sense to me than to try to blame this on video games again, even though there have already been "experts" on talking about that syndrome. Patently absurd.

The "suicide" tendency lends itself to all sorts of other obvious correlations, but it could just be one more crazy kid. Or not.

7) If they can't identify this student from handguns (he supposedly had 2 at least), then how did he get his hands on unregistered weapons in Virginia as a "student"? Again, either the police and FBI are incredibly slow at ID'ing this shooter or there is reason to keep the facts from coming out quickly -- or altogether. If the shooter is NOT a student, they can be successful at covering some things up. If he is, it will be impossible.

"Asian" is US parlance usually means an Oriental, unlike in the UK, where the term is used exclusively to describe immigrants from the Sub-Continent - much to the chagrin of Indians who, unfortunately get tainted with the same brush when the press uses the term to identify a muslim or a pakistani.

So an "Asian" in this case is most probably a Chinese?

I bet not. "Asian" means Chinese or IndoChinese. This is probably about a young man and a woman who once gave him a sense of identity. A different meaning to the phrase, "The usual."

How about Indonesian?

If the shooter is an "Asian" the chances of a Muslim shooter are far greater than if he is "white". That much we definitely know.

I do know that an Asian reporter was arrested and photographed. Whether or not the "Asian" was grabbed as a result of suspect descriptions or because of his own actions remains to be seen.

And yes, certainly, there is a very large chance that this shooter is not even an American citizen. He might be of any race or national origin or religion at this point because the authorities are keeping it all secret. Indonesian would be a very big red flag if that was ever disclosed. 99% Muslim.

Not surprising, just like what happened in Salt Lake City, Utah, with that horric mall shooting. But as the days follow, the real information gets out for all to read.

Would not suprise me if the term "Asian man" means someone who is Muslim. What we are dealing here is possible PC code talk.

I'm having a tremendous problem with the claims of the VA Tech police and faculty that they didn't further lock down the campus after the first shooting because "they thought they had the situation contained".

What the hell does that mean -- if they "had it contained" than that would mean the shooter was either caught, killed or off-campus and identified and/or under pursuit!

So, there's a very good chance that there were TWO shooters involved. And if that is not the case, prepare for a firestorm when parents rightly demand to know why that campus wasn't swarming with police after the first shooting and students were not told to go home immediately.

There are definitely very strange things afoot at VA Tech.

That's right bigcatgirl13106, we wouldn't want to cast the religion of peace in a bad light seeing they are generally so peaceful. Nothing to see here folks, move along.....

I normally "push back" on such developing stories when there is a presumption that a criminal is an Islamist until the facts are known. But in this case even I fear that our suspicions may be borne out.

The word "Asian" can be used to gloss over anything. Could be a Filipino Muslim, or a Thai Buddhist.

Still no gun control in USA though, I assume. If all young "Asian" men in USA decided to exercise their right to bear arms, how many lives would it cost to control them?

If they say it was a "youth", we'll know.
BTW, the police spokesperson said they have no information on the identity or motive of the dead suspect, but he stressed that it was not terror related.

I love how the FIRST person MSNBC talked to was a 'middle eastern' student who tut-tutted about violent America and how it was different where he was from he wasn't used to 'our' presumeably terrible culture. Huh? Preemptive PC??

Oh Lord. This will have the wonderful result of bringing the gun control zealots crashing down on us big time to make sure we're as helpless as the Swedes in Malmo when the real terror hits us.

I first heard of this story on radio, about 6:30pm UK time, when the count was 22 dead. My first reaction (other than the sudden wave of sadness I felt) was "that many? this has got to be a muslim attack". Question is, am I cynical, or am I educated? I guess the coming hours will tell.

My thoughts go out to the US tonight.

> Still no gun control in USA though, I assume. If all young "Asian" men in USA
> decided to exercise their right to bear arms, how many lives would it cost
> to control them?

If people were properly armed, not many.

As long as America is partially disarmed, the massacres will continue.

We're still in speculation mode,but this could turn out to be more than a disgruntled youth bent up with resentment and video game derangement syndrome.

If this was indeed the work of one individual, the lack of ID, amount of ammo, the barricading of doors,suggests either a death wish,or a possible militaristic training background, either army or some sort of "network." "Asian" doesn't begin to dissect this guy. The official rhetoric will provide some grains of truth here.

In the US, 'Asian' means Chinese, Korean, Indo-Chinese (Vietnamese, Cambodian), Thai, Malay, Indonesian. Curiously enough, Indian is typically not included under this umbrella. While they may resent being called 'Asian' in UK, in the US, that would be a complement, given who they would be bunched with.

As some have suggested above, if they turn out to be Indonesian or Malay (or S Filipino or S Thai), that would make this simply more outrageous. Somehow, the drip effect doesn't seem to be happening.

If they're not going to release names, they shouldn't release such broad generalizations either. Next, we'll be talking about Carbon based life forms.

"no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack"

After the first plane struck the first tower.

"no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack that was part of multiple terrorist attacks"

Condoleezza Rice "could have predicted"

If the person who did it was Muslim or Pakistani, how do they alert every local cop, private security guard, campus police force, etc. that there is a greater risk than is being told to the public without it leaking to the public?

How do they know the shooter didn't get help from someone, even a suggestion on what gun to use? How do they know the friend didn't alert others to try a second attack tomorrow or next week or next month? Hasn't it been said that a sequence of attacks would create more terror than a single attack?

Even if the shooter acted out of personal motives, how do they know a friend he told didn't pass the information along? Could they have decided to wait and see, and if the guy did it, they would do a second one the next day or next week?

Wouldn't it help people if we knew the identity of the shooter? How good a job did they do before 9-11 putting together the information they had?

How does an FBI agent in the Minneapolis office know that they need to get a search warrant on a borderline case? What about the Phoenix office? What if its just a campus security guard who has suspicions that the university president won't let him pass on to the FBI? How does that person argue to the university president that they do need to look at a student's computer in their dorm room? Or scan the computers in the library?

How do the authorities know for sure none of that could happen? Like they did before 9-11?

Some may criticize them for not acting more promptly and releasing a description, if they had one, after the first attack? What if after the first attack, they had no description, but said to the students, look out for Asians who look suspicious? What if they had done that and no second attack had happened?

Did they figure, if we say nothing and there is a second attack no one will blame us for not saying look out for Asians? Did they figure if they said look out for Asians or Muslims they would interfere with the immigration "reform" bill and expansion of legal immigration?

When students die, they clean out their dorm room and fill it with new students from here or there. If the immigration bill is held up, that might interfere with their getting students from there. President Bush just said he was pushing a new bill. Is their financial interest in the immigration bill a factor in their decision after the first attack not to act more strongly with better warnings?

Re: President George Bush Renewing Efforts on Immigration

Debbie Schlussel update on VT story

Stay tune folks, things are going to get very interesting.....

Yes if every American has an RPG and suitcase Nuke then the USA would be a much safer place eh?

"Properly armed" LOL

Well, they just revealed on FOXNews that it's legal to carry firearms with a permit in VA, but NOT on college campuses. So people just go slaughtered like sheep because obviously badguys don't worry about permits.

This is a perfect example of why if I was back in college, I'd be armed. And if someone wanted to arrest me over it, I'd just remind them of VA Tech.

If Beslans start to happen, expect Texans like me to be walking around with holsters again.

no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack

The press conference didn't inspire much confidence that the university officials know which way is up, let alone what kind of motive could be involved.

As is all too common, the officials at the press conference seemed more concerned with damage control and making excuses that no, really, the system worked.

Most shocking is the rather "ho-hum" reaction on the part of the university to the first shooting: Is is that commonplace that it's no longer considered something to get all worked up about?

Whatever the motive turns out to be, the mishandling of this case and ensuing inquiries and lawsuits will have implications on "first response" to future attacks-- with the public outrage that is brewing, hopefully it will change for the better, though at the unacceptable price of 32 lives.

When asked by a journalist on Channel 4 News that whether this was not a time when US looked at its liberal gun laws, Lionel Shriver said that she doubted if that would have avoided today's tragedy and put it down to a "bad human weather" day.

Wonderful.

I won’t speculate but I will say this,
Jihadists in the past who have been discounted don’t motivate anyone else to perpetrate crimes in the same fashion, no, never, never, never. Just keep saying it over and over and maybe it will come true. That’s right as someone on fauxnews said, video games were possibly connected, GTA or Doom could be responsible. I watched the three stooges from about 10 years old yet amazingly I have never beat anyone over the head with a hammer or lead pipe, same thing with the roadrunner/wile e coyote. We played war, we were taught to shoot at 12, we had slingshots, firecrackers, bows they even sold small working cannons and we made our own tennis ball launchers. Interesting how the people of today lack the needed skills to distinguish between real life and TV or video games. When jihadists attack and are backed up by pols/authorities as not being jihad related there are consequences! And look how totally unprepared the police were, dragging wounded around like sacks of potatoes after the perp was killed and a full two hours after the first killing occurred. Years after 911 and they still are not prepared in the least and that is almost as bad as the killings themselves. Thank God this wasn’t a jihadist planned group attack, hundreds would be dead right now. Ever heard of a stretcher, think it might be pertinent to have one or two handy just in case? That is one heck of an emergency plan they have in place. Well we wouldn’t want to appear as if people in the USA were being targeted so why get ready? It could be little green men from mars who saw how we cover our eyes when jihadists attack and so they decided we are ripe for the picking but now I am speculating. Gun bans set people up for exactly what we saw today.

>Yes if every American has an RPG and suitcase Nuke
>then the USA would be a much safer place eh?
>
>"Properly armed" LOL

Nice strawman there, blowhard.

In the UK Asian means someone from India or Pakistan, people from China as Chinese or other as oriental.

I think it's not a religious related incident and people should not bet on it either. If I am wrong so be it but for now no one knows the truth for sure.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6560685.stm

From my other post on here i wrote:

What is terror?

'That is a good point but you have to go by considering are bank robberies terrorist acts?
There is terror in the word of the crime committed yes and the effect on people but I am not sure if this terrible act is of a political statement or a command from another source that provoked it.
The person could have been deranged from the similar conditioning that extremists use on martyrdoms, this could be from another form of mental break down like over obsessive ness on a particular theme from guns to the act it self as a fantasy needed playing out with a small trigger point to make it happen within. This in turns parallels with extremist views and acts of terror from over obsessive reading or control from cults, which in the end all end up with death on the agenda.

If the story is of a Belsan school nature that is signal to America as a whole, but since it was not a political organised group massacre its unlikely it was a real terror to change the politics within the country or a revenge attack on America'.

-------------------------------------------------------
Not related but funny disproportionate tantrums over culture clashes, I think its called humour by Gere as I bet most woman would not say no to that move on Shilpa Shetty and she knows it too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6560371.stm

CNN just had a muslem student organization member/rep expression his "sorry for your shootings" on TV.....interesting.

Why didn't they search Al Gore after the first attack?

Oh, for God's sake, stop acting like people need guns to murder. Do you all forget so easily that bombs are killing innocents every day -- that jihadists try to run people down with vans and taxi cabs? The intent to murder is what kills people.

If a good, loyal American student with guts and a permit to carry had been in that campus building, at least half those students might have been saved.

You all have rights because of soldiers -- who carry weapons -- not because of Liberal muck-a-mucks that want to strip you of the means of defending yourselves and your children because "they know what's best for you".

Anyone that knows me will tell you, I hardly need a gun to kill you.

Nothing to see here, folks.. everybody move on..

Back to Anna Nicole [zap]

In the words of the loathsome Amiri Baraka:

The jihad will not be televised.

"Next, we'll be talking about Carbon based life forms."

i laughed. yes, "Asian" can mean several things in the U.S.; and it is taking quite a while to tell us the identity of a corpse. informing the next of kin? putting the next of kin on an airplane, like the Bin Laden family after 9/11?

i don't think it's muslim, but if it is... more folks now than before will say, "There is a basis for their psychosis. Some call it a religion."

I love how the FIRST person MSNBC talked to was a 'middle eastern' student who tut-tutted about violent America and how it was different where he was from he wasn't used to 'our' presumeably terrible culture. Huh? Preemptive PC??

I'd love to see a copy of that one! If anyone has link to an online clip please post it.

What a slimy double talker. Good for him I don;t work for MSNBC. I'd have asked him what he was doing studying in the Good ol' if he has so many complaints.

I'd also have asked him if he thought that 9/11 was "American" violence. And the Utah mall shootings. And the Beltway snipers. And the Sudden-Jihad-while-driving syndrome...

And and and.. ad nauseam.

In two years Hitlery will be in power and the jihadists won;t have to worry about such persky little things like the Michael Savage show or Marc Levin anymore..

Hitlery who KISSSED arafart's wife on the cheek!

Forget not only the Frist amendment.

We MUST keep Satan out of the White House!!

I have my presumptions as do the rest of you, but I suggest we not venture to far down this path without information.

If we prove to be wrong the left is going to use this as an example of overreacting. We don't have to sit back and wait for the law enforcement to tell us. The students will be doing it soon enough.

We will see students in magazines and on television for the next 10 years talking about this.

If anyone on this site wants to guess or bet the outcome to this......then someone needs to find out what and where CAIR is right now.

If CAIR is meeting with the lawenforcement or the FBI, then there is your presumed guilt. If CAIR is not meeting with lawenforment or the FBI then everyone needs to back up on the accusations.

The big fear is we don't even have a perpetrators name or motive and the Democrats and media are already calling for gun restrictions. Your 2nd Ammendment. Your Constitutional rights are ok only if it fits the liberal agenda.

If there is a Middle Eastern connection will all of the Hollywood left, Rosie, and the conspiracy theorists praise this person and blame the war in Iraq? Yes. And if it is an American then they will blame the gun lobby, the conservatives and Pres. Bush. Otherwards, here is another movie in the making for Michael Moore.

No matter what happens the left will not blame the person that did this crime. He will be presented as a victim.

while we are waiting to find out if this is what we all expect or not, i think the main point just now is that this serves a terrible warning.
following the FBI/DHS warnings of attacks on schools, security should have been high at all educational establishments....

Krissy,
Don’t respond to my post moron, go back and try to get your HS degree. Lotsa luck with that, though it will never happen, not in a million years.

MarisolJW,

"no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack"

Well no so suprising considering that law enforcement people do not want to get CAIR upset in any way, shape, or form.

Why shouldn't I keep surmising? So far I'm being proven right on more and more of my points earlier in this thread with every passing hour.

For instance -- they didn't lock down the school properly "because they assumed the shooter had left campus" after the first attack.

This ain't rocket science. The police are just very good at making it look like it.

Bring in the FBI fast.

Foehammer makes a lot of sense on his posts here.

I am curious as to how a an "average nut case" could ever inflict so much carnage on a whim. No, this madman had to have a high powered weapon, and a plan.

No ID yet? Does anyone remember the mall shootings in Utah. Did we hear once in the MSM who this killing little bastard was?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/03/bosnian_muslims.html (WHY?: Bosnian Muslims Give Hero's Send-Off to Trolley Square Terrorist)

No, we don't know who this was who killed 32 (so far--many still bleeding and 30 more maimed--some will no doubt yet die)--but... will the MSM step up to the plate this time?

As noted on a previous post---one posts he would take the bet that it is a member of the religion of pieces. Yet I also would take the bet that if it is true, the MSM will cover it up again.

tgusa, I believe Kristopher was retorting The Contrarian. And with good cause!

Foehammer, as more information comes out, could be in on something.

Anecdotal stories (true) from college:

Story #1

I had four roommates who were all off at training camp for the summer. I had to take some classes to graduate on schedule, and was living alone in the apartment. In good traditional fashion, there was a loaded 30-30 at the bedside.

It was one in the morning and there was someone in the bathroom going through the things in the medicine cabinet. It was either a roommate who was back early, or an intruder. I got up slowly and picked up the rifle. My heart was pounding, I took a deep breath, cocked the rifle loudly, and screamed the name of one of my roommates at the top of my lungs.

Whoever it was ran through the living room and jumped off the second story porch. I don’t think it was my roommate. I'll never forget that one.

Story #2

A friend had a similar wakening up experience. He was a braver than me and snuck up behind a man stealing his TV with a handgun. The burglar was pretty startled when my friend said hello. He was nice enough to put down the TV where he found it and dial the police himself.
...........

Gun ownership can be ‘reasonably regulated’ by the government. Like any regulation, it will creep. If this shooter was a Muslim with a handgun, expect the government’s response to be to try to restrict gun ownership. That was the subject of the first question at the morning press conference.

Ok, I take it all back. Sorry Kristopher.

You can use your own hands to kill too, but using a gun is more destructive hence the weapons of mass destruction fear among the world. That guy was probably a wimp, a wimp that had a gun who was able to kill more than 30 people within an Hour. Slightly faster than a doing it by hand if he tried. Once you have guns the control is social fear too, you say someone has one and that bloke is mad leave him alone you will, even if you can punch him out cold, wimps by bodily strength is not the fear any more its the determined types which mentally can spread across more aggressive personalities. This fear of death being almost certain has less personal attachment from looking in the eye of the victim up close which makes it that much more easy. Military research has suggested that that soldiers are less likely to feel guilty or mentally unable to cope if they see the victims as half the time they never see the result, and why bombing by plane almost makes it a less guilt trip on the mind. I would rather have people being protected by a bat than a gun, people all having guns on top of many other weapons in the world is worse than non. In Europe there is no fear or need for a gun in the home, once everyone has one everyone can fear the next person who has one too.

@bigcatgirl13106: I'd prefer to be "on to something" and not "in on something". The later would get me arrested. But I get your meaning. :]

Just because it is not related to Muslims or the Middle East does not mean it was not a terrorist event.

Terrorism is defined as: The calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear.

This person calculated a use of violence against civilian college kids to attain a goal.

It doesn't matter if it is a pastor's wife going postal, the mailman going postal or Leonard Peltier being in on murdering FBI agents in western South Dakota. Terrorism is exactly what happened at the college.
Having had 2 experiences in America of dolts shooting in my direction one does not care whether the person's name is Ahab or Doper Tommy, it all gets your attention in a hurry.

Knowing the area, I would deem this Asian is going to turn up to be more Islam than not as this story should have broke already with a name. Someone is covering up identity and that usually means Islam.

With all this you all may have missed the other two stories today. about the muriatic acid in the playground in Texas. They left out what city in Texas in the Fox story. there was another in I think it was Maryland but using drain cleaner. the put these horrible chemicals on the playground toys. ON THE SLIDE FOR GOD'S SAKE. A two year old was badly burned.
Pakistan they protest march against the Red Mosque and now an Asian Murders 33 people on one of our College campuses in a state that has enough Muslims to produce a Congressmen like Virgil goode who sticks his neck out.

BTW I have heard several times today that there was more than one perp.
Immediately after the first announcement I went to the local TV station's website and got a video.
I'm learning that if you don't get there quick they un-say things they said earlier.

"In Europe there is no fear or need for a gun in the home, once everyone has one everyone can fear the next person who has one too."

--

Yes, good luck with that policy when Europeans can not criticize Islam for fear of armed government and jihadists both.

I'm amazed how few people know the fundamental reason for why Americans own guns. Remember that movie "V" with the European hero, written by a British writer - Alan Moore? Even he fails to understand that Americans own guns to keep our government "of the people" and not "ruling the people".

Good luck taking guns away from Americans. There'd be a damn Civil War over such an attempt, and that's exactly what the Founding Fathers intended.

Thanks for reminding me to refind my sentences a bit more. True it should be "on to something". :-)

Whether it was a Muslim or not, the following, from Belmont Club, is pertinent:

If there is any silver lining to the tragedy, it is this: the campus shooting warns us how vulnerable an American campus is to a single armed man equipped only with handguns. Al-Qaeda terrorists all over the world must now be calculating how many more students they could have killed had a trained team of terrorists equipped with fragmentation grenades, automatic weapons and explosives launched an attack on an American institution of higher learning. Let's hope campus authorities are calculating their hypothetical response as well. I wouldn't bet on it, but no other bets are allowed.

I hope so too.

There's no way in hell they haven't identified this shooter but leak silly information like "he was looking for his girlfriend" -- people on college campuses do not live in bubbles. They know who this guy is and if they do not, there's a darker reason that they are covering up, and if that ends up with it being Islamic jihad, then the only good news out of everything today would be that it will wake more Americans out of their stupor.

Any way you cut it, this incident should warn us all that more of this is coming and more of it can be prevented. But as long as leaders prefer to eat fillet mignon and posture for photo ops with Sharia leaders in the Middle East, I suppose our kids are expendable?

jesusisthelamb, Sorry for you then. I carry a .32 in my sleeve and a .45 colts auto-loader in my big truck. I get into some places that are very dangerous and have had to use the Colts 1911 2 times, and both times to conk the prick on the head. My hide-away .32 I have used only once, and without using it I would not be here to tell the tale. I am from Arizona and it is not only legal to carry there, it is encouraged. And the same in Georgia, Missouri, Colorado and Utah. You say that I am a wimp for using a gun, but trust me, I am not. The point is 'dont go to a gun fight unarmed'. But perhaps you would like to join me on one of my trips to East St Louis, IL, or East L A, or Dallas or Cincinnati or Detroit to drop off a load late at night, you are more than welcome to come along. you can cover me.

The only defense is the Virgil Goode defense:

Paul Begala should apologize to Bay Buchanan, Pat and Virgil Goode

Okay, I'll go out on a limb and say it was a muslim.

The first shooting was at 7:15 A.M. Early morning is the mohammedans' blessed preferred time of atack.

It was well-thought out so it probably wasn't some disgruntled boyfriend or pissed off employee or flunking student who had a point to make to an ex-girlfriend or professor.

The gunman made a point of carrying no I.D. He may be part of a group that he did not want to be tied to quickly.

I think Europe is a really bad example, you all having acid tossed on you, being lit on fire, your children raped and tortured, even the police are being murdered. Doh, you want to be slaughtered have at it but don’t bring the rest of us down the same road. You think the islamists don’t have ak’s stashed in cashes somewhere waiting to break them out when the time comes? Much of Europe is hiding under the bed as we speak. Good lord some people never learn.
You know the drill Foehammer, no info speaks louder than words.

Robert Spencer and his cult followers are on their knees praying hard for the shooter at the campus to be Muslim.

Universities like Europe are full of liberals and a no gun zone for the regular civilians, hence a thug (terrorist) with a gun, has no one to stop them before the carnage is ended. I say good for AMericans who keep themselves armed legally, look at the shooting at that Utah mall, luckily that islamist terrorists was stopped dead in his tracks by a gun toting honest person!

If you google Virginia Jihad you’ll get all kinds of interesting results. I see the school also has a seeming large multicultural dept and a number of articles discussing muslim understanding.

I don’t see anything about the religious/national makeup of the school though, looking to see what percentage are of the religion of peace.

"Asian," on U.S. college campuses, is a polite way to refer to just about anyone you think is not from Latin America but who has tannish-colored skin. And in law enforcement circles, "Asian" is an easy euphemism to avoid specifying whether you are talking about someone from Muslim regions or not. Law enforcement would resort to such euphemisms for at least two reasons. First, they are afraid of revenge attacks being made on random Muslims. Second, law enforcement is afraid of accidentally mislabeling perpetrators, and arousing public complaints from Muslims and charges of discrimination (which could lead to removing the officer temporarily or permanently from the job) or lawsuits from one group or another.

It's true the term "Asian" has been often used for Asians from the Far East: Chinese, Indochinese, Japanese, Koreans. In recent decades, "Asian" has often been a polite catch-all term for describing an unknown person you have seen who has "almond-shaped" eyes and/or eyes without the epicanthic fold. Rather than foolishly say "I saw a new person in class today. I think she's Chinese," -- when in fact she might be Thai, Korean, etc., -- you just say, "I think she's Asian." Then people often picture someone with almond-shaped eyes, and have a little guidance about whom to look for when scanning for the new student in class.

But "Asian," in the U.S., can also apply to people not of the Far East. So the term is very vague. It wasn't all that long ago that historians referred to Turkey as the beginning of "Asia." I think on maps the line between Asia and Europe still runs along the Western border of Turkey.

I don't want to jump to the conclusion that this guy was a Muslim either, or that this was a jihadist act, but I will admit it crossed my mind when I first heard about this, especially after the news reports went on to describe him as "Asian" later on (guess that makes me an "Islamophobe"... oops?). But at this point I can't help but be a little more suspicious given that, as Foehammer has already said, they still haven't identified the shooter yet. This incident began at 7:15 this morning. Almost twelve hours later and we still don't even have so much as a name? Very hard to believe the authorities don't know anything else about this scumbag by now.

We'll see, idn, we'll see.

"Well, they just revealed on FOXNews that it's legal to carry firearms with a permit in VA, but NOT on college campuses. So people just go slaughtered like sheep because obviously badguys don't worry about permits."

yeah I heard and thought the same thing too. I have always been torn about gun control. I understand the argument that bad guys are gonna get guns whether its legal or not but also the thought of a college campus full of gun-totin kids makes me extremely uncomfortable. Although there is no question that would have been preferable to what happened today

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=67f_1176750363&p=1

An eyewitness account from a VT student who was shot in the arm.

Hey batutta,
What an ignorant remark.

Actually the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of a disgruntled Amish farmer or maybe even a member of Mother Teresa's order.

Obviously, it is far too early to draw any conclusions with respect to the identity of the perpetrator or the perpetrator's religion.

Recently, in Canada a gunman opened fire at Dawson College in Montreal. The only reason the gunmen did not kill more people was because of the quick action of the police. They immediately (no questions asked) stormed into the building and took out the shooter.

I think there needs to be a review a security procedures at universities in the U.S.

The only people who are drawing rapid conclusions about this incident at Virginia Tech and condemning the United States and "violence", btw, are CNN slimeballs and other leftist media outlets. Lou Dobbs just featured a "report" about the "remarkable distinction" between school shootings in the U.S. vs the "rest of the world." Lou Dobbs' reporters maintain that in the U.S. it's "children shooting children." Hence, they're apparently already concluding that the perp at Virginia Tech was a child. As I gag. I guess it's preferable to have a Beslan style shoot-out with 330 children dead at the hands of adults, eh? From a Lou Dobbs' perspective, it just makes so much more "sense". That's the Dopey Dobbian view. They should convene a panel to ask what accounts for such speculations from so-called "reporters." (Now there's going to be much more by way of lashing out at the "violence" in Amerika -- and condemning Americans. "What drives certain individuals to commit such acts of violence?" Ah, yes, must be that special feature peculiar to Americans! Yeah, let's dump on Americans. And forget the Scotland, Dunblaine massacre of school children, the Japanese incident of stabbing elementary children, the Beslan massacre of 330 children, and concentrate on what *really* matters to the Dobbian's -- Amerike and violence!)

@idn batutta

We are all on our knees praying hard that you muhammadan dogs are chased back to the Hell you came from. There you will rot for eternity with the FIEND muhammad (may apes and pigs shit on his grave)!

Robert Spencer and his cult followers are on their knees praying hard for the shooter at the campus to be Muslim.idn batutta

For one thing I do not care if it's a Muslim or not, we hear more than 30 dead people daily all in one go in Iraq being bombed let alone the rest of the world by Muslim take overs and sepratist actions. Sorry but not everyone here cares about this case as Muslim related, but it was an issue of what could happen and this sounds almost like good timing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

EUROPE can not defend against bomb attacks with guns they can not defend against planes highjacked, thats why guns are not allowed on the plane either. America has it's history with guns and it was born into that world and no one is sinless enough for a nation as whole to agree to hand them in and quit having them for the sake of the good like the Nuclear weapon agreements by the nations.

We're followers of quite a number of authors now. The news on Islam is getting out.

If it is a Muslim, there'll be commentary, and not all of it will be, "Oh well, all sorts of people go nuts." It will be, "All sorts of people go nuts in the foptsteps of Mohammed."

More and more people know what Islam represents and portends for the American future.

I don't agree with posting this incident until such time as the perpetrator's identification is known.

Emotions tend to run high here. This is understandable, given the unending series of outrages from individuals calling themselves Moslem and invoking Moslem scripture to justify their deeds. But does this community want to become the mirror image of scenes to be found throughout the Moslem world, in which crowds of fanatics go on the rampage merely with the rumor of an injustice?

Let's keep our heads. Let's get the facts.

If we prove to be wrong the left is going to use this as an example of overreacting. We don't have to sit back and wait for the law enforcement to tell us. The students will be doing it soon enough.

You know what? The Left is the Left and they are Masters of the Spin. They don't even remember why they are Leftist to begin with anymore.

The longer it takes to hear news re. the identity of the perp[s] it becomes obvious that this was a jihadist attack.

I knew before the second plane hit the second tower that it was AQ. I was called a racist and "rushing to judgement".

I always used to say in these situations.. I'd rather be a racist in your eyes than to be proven right. It gives me no joy that I am cursed with the ability to think straight.

Even if my fingers betray my spelling skills at times.

I'm guessing the shooter is a human being.

Savage was just saying that the shooter first killed two people and then returned to kill the rest. If I hear that right.. WHERE was the police.. Homeland [IN]Security.. the FBI.. ATF..?

The guvmint should be handing out guns to the citizens. At least we'll do the job for free!

"guns are not allowed on the plane either", Wrong again there jesusisthelamb, guns are allowed on planes. The pilots have them as well as Sky Marshals.

alaskan1000,

"f we prove to be wrong the left is going to use this as an example of overreacting."

The truth is that the left is more interested in throwing talk radio show hosts off the air.

Jesus was a Shepherd and he gave up his life to save his flock as God commanded. Do yourself a favor and try to be a human, there was only one Jesus and you or I are not him. If you refuse to act as God in his image made you I highly doubt you will ever see the Pearly Gates. Read your bible and then try to comprehend it, believe in Jesus don’t try to be Jesus. Utter arrogance.

I think the horrible effectiveness of this killer suggests that the event was not a case of someone insanely snapping, whether from Sudden Jihad Syndrome or from some non-Islamic form of insanity. Rather this person, it would seem, had more the effectiveness of a soldier methodically carrying out a carefully planned operation based on relatively non-emotional, stable, but evil motives. In other words, like the motives of one of the totalitarian agents of Islam.

True, it's possible that this killer just snapped emotionally, and yet in that highly unstable state, somehow had the psychological endurance to kill and keep killing till 32 people lay dead and many others were injured. But the nuts who go on sudden killing rampages often seem to shut down fairly quickly, and to lack the stability to continue on their insane course as long as this guy did.

No, idn, not a human being. MAYBE a carbon based life form, at the most.

ABC news article: "No identification was found on the gunman's body, police said. Eyewitnesses described him as an asian male about six feet tall. He apparently shot himself in the head after the killings; part of his face was missing when his body was found."

He shot himself in the face and had no ID. That's why he hasn't been identified. Also, he was supposedly looking for his girlfriend.

Although it begs the question: if they know he was looking for his girlfriend, don't they know who his girlfriend is? Wouldn't he have mentioned her by name? And if they know who his GF is, wouldn't they know who he is?

I don't like the way this looks at all.

Those who have pointed out that the identity of the killer has still not been released have a strong point. That seems unusual.

This tragedy also reminds of the boarding a few months ago of a school bus by adult Muslim men for no clear reason, as well as the efforts of Muslims with possible ties to terror seeking jobs as school bus drivers. Maybe there was a shift i plans, to a less vigilently watched target in the U.S. educational system.

"I'm guessing the shooter is a human being."

But obviously lacking in humanity and any sense of human decency. Who does that remind you of?

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about whats going on. There are people out there with more info than I have that are investigating the incident right now (the police). It sounds like a domestic violence thing to me...or the shooter had an issue with the school and wanted to take his girlfriend out before he died too. I guess its possible that it could be a muslim on a private Jihad but there are a lot of things that could be possible that I'm sure are being looked into. The police need to do the investigation and release the result of it before I will decide. This stuff has happened before.

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about whats going on. There are people out there with more info than I have that are investigating the incident right now (the police). It sounds like a domestic violence thing to me...or the shooter had an issue with the school and wanted to take his girlfriend out before he died too. I guess its possible that it could be a muslim on a private Jihad but there are a lot of things that could be possible that I'm sure are being looked into. The police need to do the investigation and release the result of it before I will decide. This stuff has happened before.

Foehammer,

You rightly point out that there are many ways to kill other than a gun but in the US today it has become the easiest way.
Bombmakers will be noticed and there is no guarantee their bombs will cause casualties.
Same with gas and other methods.
On the other hand, we love our guns and the NRA is there to support our right to buy a semi-automatic. If you're not eligible to buy a gun you can steal one or find someone to buy it for you or you can buy it on the black market.
Planes are out. It's harder to even get into the airport with a gun and security will limit the impact of a shooter. Commuters are wary of unguarded packages and they keep an eye on their fellow passengers. Malls and schools will be the new venue for American attacks.
There's no way to protect a campus that is not walled in with a security guard at the gate examining each and every vehicle. Calling out for better security on campus is a waste of time. Will we have metal detectors at every door? You'll need an hour between classes to move from building to building.

If this is what it appears to be there is just one answer: throw them out and don't let any more in.

I'm guessing the shooter is a human being.--Idn Batutta

I think anybody who could shoot 60 innocent people for no reason qualifies as sub-human, personally.

jesusisthelamb - I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in the U.K. there has been a huge growth in the number of "Hot" burglaries and home invasions since the severe restrictions placed on gun ownership. (a hot burglary takes places in an occupied home.) Criminals do not fear those who are unable to defend themselves. British law is also inclined to look askance upon householders who injure criminals by any means. If you can, check out a very interesting article that appeared in the "Financial Times" on June 22,2002, entitled "Trigger Unhappy - Armed Crime is Soaring in Britain" by Joyce Lee Malcolm. The author points out that when guns were easily available, England and Wales had an "astonishly low level or armed crime". Between 1890-92 there was an average of a single handgun murder a year in a population of 30,000,000. Now, with guns unavailable to honest citizens, violent crime has skyrocketed. Your religious beliefs may not make shooting back an option. I lack your sense of morality.
Regards,
MP

I can almost hear the prayers x 5 of muslims in America....."Oh Allah, please please please don't let the shooter be a muslim"

So the police say that:

The shooter cannot be identified due to facial damage.

The shooter killed his girlfriend and her new lover.

These two statements are contradictory. The police are hiding the dead perp's name.

I can almost hear the prayers of muslims in America....."Oh Allah, please don't let the shooter be a muslim"

This incident is not a concidence. First it's Easter, then a storm, and now a massacre( notice how the media is calling a massacre for the time being until the shooter is revealed to a muslim then it's terrorism) it's a lot bunny stuff

Kristopher -
It is a contradiction, unless what the police are saying is that the killer cannot be positively identified yet, but they believe he is the boyfriend, and they don't want to release the boyfriend's name yet until a completely positive ID can be established.

I'm guessing the shooter is a human being.

Posted by: idn batutta

Once a person becomes islamicized they cease to be a human being.

Just like the Borg.

Or Zombies.

Or Body Snatchers.

Take your pick.

guns are not allowed on the plane either", Wrong again there jesusisthelamb, guns are allowed on planes. The pilots have them as well as Sky Marshals.

Posted by: QuadoLama

---------------------------

Hi, yes obviously people in power like the police can use it, as they are the higher pecking order in society for protection so we don't need them, the problem is if everyone trys to be like that, ones wrong can be someones right in their own interpretation during a rage of that moment like the guy in story event.

Police in the UK have sometimes guns but mainly at air ports, but society in the UK has not reached that desprate need for them, only drug dealers use them against other drug dealers because in that life you feel everyone is the enemy. There is a different way of life in America as I understand but as you know the youth can not handle the responsibity of one, most gun crimes in the UK are based around youths, and I bet the same the world over, I think one less dangerous weapon is one step better for mankind.

If there are anymore views in what I have said please use my JW name as reference so I know it's about me, will be glad to reply.

Also note 'Jesus is the lamb' is a take on Jesus is is Islam (not) the irony is that Islam does not see Jesus as the lamb barer of mankind. That is the irony, I am no Jesus my self no one is but we look up to him.

I still think they are footdragging for PC reasons.

Buddy,

"I can almost hear the prayers of muslims in America....."Oh Allah, please don't let the shooter be a muslim"

It would not suprise me because the Muslims are scarred bigtime that if this is another "sudden jihad syndrome", then the anger among Americans against Islam will be kicked up a notch bigtime.

"This incident is not a concidence. First it's Easter, then a storm, and now a massacre( notice how the media is calling a massacre for the time being until the shooter is revealed to a muslim then it's terrorism) it's a lot bunny stuff"

Posted by: idn batutta at April 16, 2007 07:24 PM

What is that supposed to mean, actually. It doesn't make sense. I suppose you've been "thinking" again?

"Robert Spencer and his cult followers are on their knees praying hard for the shooter at the campus to be Muslim."

Posted by: idn batutta at April 16, 2007 06:37 PM

"I'm guessing the shooter is a human being."

Posted by: idn batutta at April 16, 2007 06:52 PM

Well hakuna buttata, we can all see where you are coming from. Tell us Mr buttata-head, do you think it matters not-- that the Trolley Square Mall murderer was a lone muslim nut case kid acting on his own private role in jihad? (What else are the suicide bombers brainwashed from pre-school years on for in the real cult of death--aka islam?) The public doesn't need to know that right?

idn batutta wrote:
"Robert Spencer and his cult followers are on their knees praying hard for the shooter at the campus to be Muslim."

That's absurd. The tragedy in and of itself is the real focus. If the shooter was a Muslim, then it further validates this site's existence. If no correlation is proven between the shooter and Islam, it still does not detract from what Robert is thankfully doing for us all.

I am not saying he was a Muslim, but there are peculiarities to this story so far, and we here in the US know that the MSM is pretty much full of shit in these regards. We will wait and see, like we should.

The only interesting by-line that will come with this story relative to the focus of this site is, if the shooter is discovered to be an Islamist, what is your reaction going to be Idn? Is it going to be anything more than another example of one misinterpreting true Islam, with your comrade 'An American' throwing in the qualifier that the fault lies in the fact that he didn't speak or read Arabic?

It may not come to fruition, but then again, it may...

idn batutta said:

notice how the media is calling a massacre for the time being until the shooter is revealed to a muslim then it's terrorism

Actually, the media and law enforcement have repeatedly refused to call deadly incidents perpetrated by Muslims "terrorism," despite the Muslims in question sometimes explicitly asserting Quranic motives for what they did. There was the case, for example, of the Muslim college student last year who drove his car into a bunch of other college students -- I think it was at the University of North Carolina. The media refused to look at that as jihad terror, despite the Muslim student's explanation that his motives were Quranic and Islamic. And there have been quite a few other incidents that, despite clear evidence, the media and law enforcement have chosen to look at as merely loony, not jihad-loony or terror-loony (if I may use redundant expressions).

Interesting that the engineering school JUST HAD bomb threats (the first in years they said) only a week or so ago. It was in the local news.

Sixty two! shot and hit! by man with only two pistols!?
yeah - just a disgruntled student (who apparently spent a lot of time at a firing range)

Okay, I'll go out on a limb and say it was a muslim.

Michelle.. that limb is getting awfully crowded.

jesusisthelamb,

Here is my first post to you.

Sorry for you then. I carry a .32 in my sleeve and a .45 colts auto-loader in my big truck. I get into some places that are very dangerous and have had to use the Colts 1911 2 times, and both times to conk the prick on the head. My hide-away .32 I have used only once, and without using it I would not be here to tell the tale. I am from Arizona and it is not only legal to carry there, it is encouraged. And the same in Georgia, Missouri, Colorado and Utah. You say that I am a wimp for using a gun, but trust me, I am not. The point is 'dont go to a gun fight unarmed'. But perhaps you would like to join me on one of my trips to East St Louis, IL, or East L A, or Dallas or Cincinnati or Detroit to drop off a load late at night, you are more than welcome to come along, you can cover me.

In Arizona the legal age to carry a gun is 14. The legal age to carry a gun when it is concealed is 18. We do not have a rash of gun fights in Arizona, as you think. In fact we have a very low rate of gun violence there. And on the campus of Arizona State University (east) many of the students have a gun in their dorm or home, and we have never had an incident there on campus. Please dont believe the nonsense that some would tell you about guns, it is just not true.

fedupinamerica said:

I suppose you've been "thinking" again?

Got me chuckling, that line. (No offense idn battuta.)

I'm guessing the shooter is a human being.

Posted by: idn batutta

In the "occupied territories" and in the rest of islaminazistan [you call it umma] world-wide this despicable coward is a hero.. a "shaheed".

Isn't that right Baty-bwai?

Also like to add, if growing gun crime is making people in their own homes feel feared and it starts becoming a massive problem and the government allows the law for ownership on a mass scale with gun shops being opened in every corner then be it. As a whole, society is doing well without them, if the problems spill to the point we have to defend against illegal arms then I agree. But as that problem gets solved I think little ones too will happen that won't get national attention, instead depressed fathers kill their families using a gun goes on a rise another problem to deal with.

Like I said these are just personal opinions and don't mind being wrong in your eyes or hearing peoples comments. But in a way I agree too and believe the UK and the world will wish they had some guns at home because some evil corrupt system will make you an enemy for just believing in freedoms and that’s when society will need to fight back. If a satanic world order or some threat to humanity happens we need a defence against it, if the Jews had guns in Europe in WW2 most would have escaped the genocide. But for now it's nice to live in a society that although has some gun problems I can trust my neighbour in case he becomes trigger-happy one day.

Oh, a poster on politicallyincorrect.de had this link to offer regarding the shootings today.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/xp-25529

He suggests there might be a connection. At the very least it is something that the "authorities" ought to investigate.

When they're not busy with more important matters - like "sensitivity training".

I'm guessing the shooter is a human being.--Idn Batutta

The term human being is meaningless in Islamic terms - there are believers and non-believers and only the former have the right to be regarded as normal human beings. Non-believers are something slightly less rather in he same way as a non-Muslim is never an innocent person. Personally I think any speculation about the identity of the murderer is a little previous at the moment but Idi seems to be admitting, in his Muslim-speak way, that he thinks it was a co-religionist of his.

The story in the link above is two years old. It does not necessarily mean, however, that it is irrelevant.

Robert Spencer and his cult followers are on their knees praying hard for the shooter at the campus to be Muslim.

Posted by: idn batutta

As another poster beat me to it already.. it is worth repeating:

We are PRAYING that either all you MoFoes pack up and LEAVE - or - that we be allowed to be of assistance should you have problems making up your mind which way to the sewers of meca.

Back to the bogs, y'all!

Heard on Michael Savage who presented a live feed from the chief-of-police and the latter had said that it was "domestic in nature".

First, vague report of a possible ID from the Chicago Sun Times (via Drudge):

http://www.suntimes.com/news/343354,vatech041607.article

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Heard on Michael Savage who presented a live feed from the chief-of-police and the latter had said that it was "domestic in nature".

Posted by: bigcatgirl1310

I heard this too. They might be calling it "domestic terrorism".

Calm down, y'all. This perp has not been named because he has not been identified. He had nothing on him to make a prelim ID. In the 7:40 pm news conference they admit they don't know who he is, er was.

They cannot positively state that it was the same gunman in the shootings in the two buildings. It will require empty cartridge analysis. At this point it will only show that the same firearms were used in both buildings.

They are looking for one of those "persons of interest" in the first shooting.

Now police are saying they have checked/ran the shooters fingerprints and they cant find a pmatch... illegal alien anyone?

Indeed, everything is still speculative at the moment as to the identity of the perpetrator. But, one thing we can probably conclude -- it was not "a child" doing the shooting -- contrary to the CNN's Lou Dobbs' program...

We can probably eliminate the disgruntled 10-year-olds who've spent too much time watching action-packed video games... contrary to the Dobbsian View.

Okay, if it's Chinese, next question is whether he's Uygar or not. If yes, continue the probing; if no, let it go, or continue the probing on maoistwatch.com - assuming that exists.

I agree with Pelayo - no need to jump to conclusions. They would have done well to avoid saying Asian - which could mean anything from Japan to Yemen, or Indonesia to Mongolia (Damn, I just wish they'd end such meaningless continental references - after all, Egypt is recognized more as Middle East than Africa, Russia is recognized more as either Europe or its own continent rather than Eurasia, and the Islamic countries from Pakistan to Turkey have an identity very distinct from the rest of Asia.

fellow bloggers, do yourselves a favour and do not waste time on idn batutta (islamic propaganda) or jeezuz has a lamp (leftie)...
they're only here to incense the discussion with senseless rubbish and eventually trying to derail it...(we have heaps of these drongos on euro-blogs) I'm speaking from Europe, and oh boy, do I wish to have a gun (and many of my friends), just to help stopping short the enormous speed which is picking up concerning the islamisation of the old continent... however, it will be too late,-my wife is pushing me for us to emigrate - for the kids sakes...you cannot even imagine how deeply Europe is infiltrated by the islamic scum, and how well the system is controlled by the left who supports this move..
Take good care that satan is not getting into the White House...Foehammer is a very wise man, and so were your founding fathers...
Give the scum no chance, your government last sunday has decided to bring another 7ooo musel palestinians to the US (not even persecuted christians) - they are the worst, try to stop it..you got too many musels in the country already... greets, cA

Are Muslims ‘afraid of the backlash?’- and did CAIR ‘condemn all acts of terrorism’ with the inevitable ‘but…’ already?

Did the police issue another statement that starts with ‘isolated incident’ that always ends with ‘mentally unstable man- no connection to terrorism..?’

Well, we could be wrong. We could blame Bushhitler. Anybody blame the Jooozzz yet?

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/04/16/31-dead-in-virginia-tech-shooting-shooter-was-asian/

Pretty smart of the guy, blowing his face off so no one will be able to tell if he's a member of the religion of peace. Was there any kind of scraggly beard hanging off what was left of his chin? Or did he have a skin tone that might suggest that he wasn't born in Ireland or England? But honestly, how many irrate Buddhists have gone around shooting people in malls or college campuses lately?

We'll know soon enough who he was. In the meantime deductive reasoning and the disturbing pattern of events that has arisen since 9/11 and the fact that Muslims tell us it's their duty to make war on the infidels and convert us all to Islam, whether we like it or not, at least makes one suspicious, since we know the basic m.o. of this mindset.

Another soldier in the army (jihad) of one?

idn batutta said:

notice how the media is calling a massacre for the time being until the shooter is revealed to a muslim then it's terrorism
Actually, the media and law enforcement have repeatedly refused to call deadly incidents perpetrated by Muslims "terrorism," despite the Muslims in question sometimes explicitly asserting Quranic motives for what they did.

Because if they do, they'll get sued by CAIR. For starters.

"Domestic in nature" my ass. This was premeditated murder done for some deeply rooted personal agenda, problem or ideology. When is the last time you've heard of a guy barricading himself into a building and murdering a bunch of innocent students?

That's right, when the "milkman" went postal on Amish schoolgirls:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/07/AR2006100700394.html

If someone tries to prove that this guy decided to kill 32 people to get back at a cheating ex-girlfriend, I'm going to cry foul very loudly.

from drudge
'LOVE-CRAZED KILLER: Jilted boyfriend went on rampage'...
Two 9mm handguns...

He was said to have quarreled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the fight. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser....

If they know this why not tell his name?
Why are they working so hard to create an opinion prior to releasing the name ?
Wild ass guess. His Name is Abdul or Mohammad that's why.
And the Administration has to be able to say Their has been no terror attack on US Soil YAk YAk YAk.

I have a daughter getting ready to enter university.
I don't know how I could endure losing her in a tragedy such as this. My heart aches for those parents who have lost their children today.

God help them somehow....comfort them in their grief...somehow.

fellow bloggers, do yourselves a favour and do not waste time on idn batutta (islamic propaganda) or jeezuz has a lamp (leftie)...
they're only here to incense the discussion with senseless rubbish and eventually trying to derail it.BY cosmicAvenger

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you missed something I said and I guess you are saying the same thing I did, did you not read my last post too busy typing?

I did say if things change in the UK or Europe then I agree guns are a good idea if that is what is required. At the moment in my community I don't feel we need to go that far how ever diverse it is. To need guns means you live in fear and be afraid of something, most of the UK does with out them including the police except air ports or parliament. If things change then I would like to defend my self but for now things are ok and it sounds like paranoia to have the need, once it reaches that level so be it, but being afraid of a Muslim take over is not something guns will be able to stop you need to make the laws to fight back as they do.

Because you pulled a trigger on Jesusisthelamb for
jeezuz has a lamp
I will say cosmicAvenger = comicAvangilist
But I think I am steeping low and it's not my style. I would not use phrases like this even against Naseem or Abdulla thank you.

Posted by ZionistYoungster: Let's hope campus authorities are calculating their hypothetical response as well. I wouldn't bet on it, but no other bets are allowed. I hope so too.

No way the authorities, and specially not institutions of learning, schools, colleges or universities, can take preventitive measures against organised terrorist attacks. It simply cannot be done across the whole couintry without turning the country into a police state.

Quadolama -- drop off a load of what? And why late at night? Sounds like you have a pretty dangerous job that keeps your wife and kids on their knees -- and your mother too.

My recommendation is simple enough -- if you're a law abiding citizen on campus, consider carrying mace, a stun-gun or an ASP in your backpack, or a knife to "slice your apple at lunch". Civil disobedience just might save your life one day -- and possibly many others.

In some cases I'd even recommend carrying firearms, but those people already know who they are.

@jesusisthelamb: Any European that doesn't live in fear by now is blind.

O'Reilly just announced on Fox News that the shooter was apparently a 24 year old Chinese man who came to the U.S. on a student visa. His name still hasn't been released.

'xuse me!

-How do the police know he's Asian - after he shoot himself in the back of the head. What is left - his hair type? His skin tone?

And btw - Filipinos can be taken as Asian.
Moslem Filipinos.

@jesusisthelamb: Any European that doesn't live in fear by now is blind.

Posted by: Foehammer
----------------------------------------

Hi, yes I agree fear is up in Europe overall and opinions seem roughly the same especially with what is happening in the world today, I still fear flying even if never did before 9/11 but how will this fear be channelled? Do we now fight back politically, deport people, have guns, use religion as a counter attack and bring back evangelist counter attacks to dampen Islam and other religions, do we ban religion? There are a lot of solutions but the grand fear in isolated places like in capitals, it does not happen in every town let alone every city.
The fear is to lose our freedoms and to want to live with a gun in the home. I feel for Europe anyway we have be overwhelmed by some fear in order to need them a massive civil war from a seperatist ideology that Islam will no doubt be the course as it can not play democracy. I expect 20 to 30 years time society will demand this type of gun protection, but for now there is more fear from Iran now than the Muslims in Europe.

Just heard a student claim that the first email he received even telling of the 1st shooting was at 9:26 AM. So, obviously, word didn't get out to allow students to decide whether they should leave campus or not. The part that pisses me off is that unless there are two shooters, the police/faculty obviously knew the killer was at-large and yet they allowed students to go on business-as-usual instead of immediately ending classes for the day and safeguarding their lives. To me this was short-sighted and completely inexcusable considering the history of violence we have had in schools over the last decade and the threat of terror over all our heads.

Of course it's the joooozes fault.Everything is thier fault because they killed Jesuuuuuus,don't you know?

Hey jews quit oppressing these peaceful muslims and while your at it quit commiting acts of terror on them have you no morals?

The jews the only world superpower,not a popcorn fart goes out unless okayed by the joooooz.

End sarcasm

But seriously drop dead islam ESPECIALLY YOU CAIR

For once "What Really Happened" is on the same wavelength - a pic on one of the articles shows an Asian man. They may have been working together.

Another visitor gone mad? Well we let anyone come here if they show us enough money. When American citizens do this there is little we can do. However when the gubment allows people in w/o any screening there was something that might have been done. I have guns and I don’t live in fear and I’m not looking out my window clutching my weapon afraid to go to sleep. I have been shot at in the past and thanks to good old American steel in combination with a small caliber weapon my life was saved. The fact is I will set my dogs on them first, the guns are only for a last resort, but I do have a last resort thank you very much. What happened, it used to be people came here and were happy to be allowed in, now they get mad and line us up and gun us down. Where are they getting the idea that we should be executed? On campus maybe, in the news or movies possibly, from some of our own slimy citizens perhaps? Yes I think whatever the case may be the blame can be placed at the foot of the hate America crowd right here among us. If you call people names that are untrue, if you label someone a rapist who is not someone may get killed, but as long as you are only saying that we are nazis or racists and not nappy hoes its all good or at least that’s what we have been led to believe.

champ

Oh no, not at all dangerous. I just get into some places that are dangerous. I haul whatever is contracted and arrive there late at night sometimes. As for my sons, they are both in the US Army, one in the Special Forces in Africa, and the other is in the Rangers in Afghanistan, both doing the lords work there. And as you may have guessed I am all about gun control, and taught that to my sons at an early age. To control the projectile, always carry holstered, control your background, and your field of fire.

But I am never afraid for my safety, as I always carry the Colt .45 in my left hand so anyone can see that it is there. And as you know that particular gun will stand out in a crowd owing to its size. That way I never need to use it with deadly force, just a little conk on the head will get the attention of some miscreant. But thank you for your warm wishes, it is always appreciated.

jeezuz:
.." but being afraid of a Muslim take over is not something guns will be able to stop you need to make the laws to fight back as they do."

you should be aware that the muslims are being well trained by their imams and mullahs to use our own liberal laws against us, so that it will be near impossible to stop them legally, except if we change our laws in a somewhat totalitarian way (like a certain austrian/german bloke did 70 years ago) that would not be accepted by a highly ignorant euro-population which officially is being tuned by the bodies of the EU into perceiving muslim-immigration as "cultural enrichment"...

please excuse for bastardizing your nick in such a terrible way, but I thought you must be highly enlightened (lamp) when you dish out such hints and advice to the readers here...(but in fact turn out to be very naive - excuse talking clear text)
But then you're from the UK which already is seen by continentals as a writeoff of about 70% presently (10 years Labour and 150 years imperial immigration without muslim regulation - They want Sharia in Britain) Doesn't matter which district you live in...it will reach very soon near you.

Just today - I was reading blog links to Gates of Vienna - I scanned one saying -"VA U. is an FBI training ground." Where did I see it, where did I see it, uhm?

To most of us here in the States the term Asian means east-Asian, a person from somewhere in the hugh geographic arc extending from Malaysia up through Korea, with a billion Chinese in the middle.

If Malay or Indonesian, then maybe. But my bet is this has no Islam connection.

Can't wait to find out, though.

LET'S JUST PUT AN END TO ALL STUDENT VISAS, WE DON'T NEED THEM COMING OVER HERE KILLING INNOCENT AMERICANS ANYMORE

How many of the 911 terrorists were here on student visas? How many jihadist lone wolves who attacked students at American universities were here on student visas? I seem to recall one welcomed visitor driving a car across a campus looking to run over American's last year in his version of Islamic Jihad.

We do a good enough job of killing ourselves (Columbine comes to mind.) We don't need wannabe foreign students who can't get a decent education in their God-forsaken country to come over here and gun down their classmates.

Why does everything seem so soulless and nihilistic these days? Was it a good idea to kick the Bible out of the classroom? ...

Bloomberg update

quote
The first two victims were killed at about 7:15 a.m. local time at West Ambler Johnston dormitory, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said. Police said they didn't close the campus because they believed it was an isolated incident and the shooter had left the grounds.

At 9:29 a.m., the university sent an e-mail warning students that a gunman was on the loose and to stay indoors. At about 9:45 a.m., a shooter opened fire at the engineering school's Norris Hall, killing 30 people.

end quote.

This timeline allows for a second potential shooter to get the textmail and that triggers them. They may be the person, in this scenario, who had made the threat at an earlier date against VT.

VT info

USA Today

quote

Police have a tentative identification of the dead gunman but aren't releasing his name yet or saying whether he's a student, saying the investigation is continuing. The chief of campus police said the man does not fit the description of the "person of interest" who was being sought in the dormintory killings earlier in the morning. That suspect is not a student and has not been arrested. Murder-suicide has been ruled out in the dorm killings. It's still not clear whether the two shootings are related or if the dead gunman was behind the dorm murders.

end quote

Video news conf

There may be a second person of interest from the
dorm incident?

Asian probably means East Asian according to some blogs.

He was said to have quarreled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the fight. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.... If they know this why not tell his name?

Excellent point, KAOSTRL.

Why would a man who broke up with his girlfriend go on a shooting rampage and kill over thirty people? That is not the style of a lunatic who lost his girlfriend. The police are reluctant to release the name of the killer. Why? Are they fearing a backlash against Muslims? Are they trying to cover this up? Remember the downed airliner over NYC shortly after 9-11-2001? What are the authorities trying to hide? the American public has a right to know. What if the killer's name is Mohammand, Amir, Reza or Abdullah? Will his name ever be released? Or are they going to bury him in a grave and call it the "Tomb of the unknown killer... Hmmmm!?

The Asian man shown being arrested was a student journalist taking photos. He was released shortly after being taken into custody as stated at the evening news conference.

Foehammer

"The part that pisses me off is that unless there are two shooters, the police/faculty obviously knew the killer was at-large and yet they allowed students to go on business-as-usual instead of immediately ending classes for the day and safeguarding their lives."

That would cause "fear" and there is nothing worse then "fear" and "alarm". Don't want to cause a panic!

Of course now we have 30 + dead students but hey at least nobody had to be fearful until the bullets started to fly.

The man with the ex-girl friend in the dorm may be the person of interest who was interviewed at the time of the second shooting at Norris. He is not dead and is not in custody. He did not do the killings. Or that is my impression from the news conference and the links posted above.

The killer of the people in the second shooting was identified as "Asian" by students there. That man is likely East Asian according to some blogs.

A Virginia legislator introduced a bill last year that would trump the University system’s ban on concealed weapons on campus. The University lobbied hard against the legislation and supposedly some professor wrote a letter to the paper gloating about how his efforts to kill the bill have made the students safer. Hopefully we’ll get a chance to see his letter tomorrow. The legislation will be re-introduced in January.

A question for anyone who may be familiar with Israeli schools: are the teachers armed?

Chinese National Hero was 2nd shooter

also at Debbie Schlussel.

Debbie Schlussel on Chinese National story in Sun Times

(we have heaps of these drongos on euro-blogs)

hey, CA.. what's a drongo?

When the cops describe perps as "Asian" - I suppose thye know very well that real Asians are law-abiding and peaceful, and not likely to sue or riot.

But frankly that description "Asian" is an insult to the Asians - in describing a middle eastern perp.

I just tuned in to CNN. Seeing Dr. Phil there with Lar-ree was too nauseating for words.. Guess I'll stick to the net and radio for now.

There are lots of issues to take in, but believe me naive? I am not sure because -I don't- judge that quickly I educate my self.

@Allahfanculo

sorry,..a "drongo" is an Aussie term (outback) for a 'dodo', which is a yordie term for a 'pain in the arse'... ;-)
(a yordie is a person from northern England around the city of Newcastle (mining)..-no muslims yet!)

Will his name ever be released? Or are they going to bury him in a grave and call it the "Tomb of the unknown killer... Hmmmm!?
Posted by: The Resistance

We'll know his name when he gets a hero's burial somewhere in the Middle East. /sarc off

So.. another foreign "stooooodent"... Come to think of it.. Jorge al-bin-Bush just gave 16000 visas for SOWdiarabian stuuuuuudents..

.. all these freaks have to do is go to the nearest pawn shop outside of Atlanta and 'ammo up'.

I am not advocating gun control - I did in the past - I am pointing out a possible strategy by MoFoes could be to come over here fully trained under some kind of a pretext.. student seems to work GREAT!

And once inside the country.. wll, they know how to get their hands on whatever they need.

I don't know how best to counter this threat - except BANNING all moslems from entering the country!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

There is no other way to prevent these things from happening again and again.. and worse and worse and worse.. their manual of death mandates that they do these things.

Zey are merely vollovinck orders!

Orders directly from the Satan mahomet [be he eternally cursed!!].

jesusisthelamb,
Conspiracy theories? Please. And if you believe what you say about God, Jesus and the end of the world what exactly are you afraid of? Do you think you can stop it? If it was foretold and must occur, why worry? You are starting to make me think you are either insane, gullible or you really don’t believe what you say you believe.

Sixty two! shot and hit! by man with only two pistols!?
yeah - just a disgruntled student (who apparently spent a lot of time at a firing range)
Posted by: TINBH

You're right. This sounds more like something out of "The Matrix". This guy was a damn good shot - as much as I hate and despise him.

How come these people aren't vetted before they come in here? I'd liek to know where he was trained, god dammit!!!

Jeez:
you may be not wrong with a lot of your points, and I sincerely apologize of having given you the brush with a bit of my rough lingo, but this happens only because I believe we have no time left to 'opinionize' on so many avenues about what "could" be...
Let's not waste more time.
Talking about prophesies ?
Think of Damascus.......................
otherwise did I have it with prophets, -for good.
so, let's not haggle any longer but team up with a swelling feeling of righeousness in our chests..
knowing we are not all alone...
Jesusisthelamb, good night!

Allahfanculo

It would be no great feat to shoot that many, when they are all cowering in the back of a closed room and there is no escape.

I believe that the term "Asian" is being used because of the report from an eye-witness. She said she was in her German class -- when the door opened and a fellow (the perp) stuck his head in and began shooting. she said the students took cover, then 30 seconds later, the shooter returned. she said he was mythodical (very determined to kill every last one of them). She only survived by pretending to be dead. She also said some students tried to keep the door shut (so he wouldn't come back), but the perp shot through the door. She said he "looked Asian."

Would this guy or any like minded person try this stunt if all adults on campus were carrying firearms?

I don't think so.

State Senator Deeds attempts to remove the University ban on concealed carry permits in Virginia-January 4th 2006:

http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/OP-05-078.pdf

This horrible incident should be a wakeup call to all American colleges to tighten their security.

A lot of cold planning went into this (the bomb threats, the doors chained up, the possible diversion murders at the first dorm to tie up the police force). It appears to be a terrorist operation, and I'm frustrated that the cops haven't released the perp's name.

Would this guy or any like minded person try this stunt if all adults on campus were carrying firearms?

I don't think so.
by nephilim

That's what I am thinking, and that's why I'd love gun ownership legalized in Europe..then the Turk punks in Berlin would not club offduty police officers almost to death with rusty metal bars only because they were not allowed to enter a school party (jan.07)
or Cologne (mar.07)..

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL BLAME THE MUSLIM AGAIN!!! Funny people, you know what? Muslims were behind 9/11 too LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Jokers

Virginia Tech’s ban on guns may draw legal fire: 13APR05.

University officials confirmed that, earlier this semester, campus police approached a student found to be carrying a concealed handgun to class. The unnamed student was not charged with any crimes because he holds a state-issued permit allowing him to carry a concealed gun. But the student could face disciplinary action from the university for violating its policy prohibiting "unauthorized possession, storage or control" of firearms on campus.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

"I think it's fair to say that we believe guns don't belong in the classroom," Hincker said. "In an academic environment, we believe you should be free from fear."

ElderlyZionist,
That would be a rhetorical question.
“A rhetorical question seeks to encourage reflection within the listener as to what the answer to the question (at least, the answer implied by the questioner) must be. When a speaker declaims, "How much longer must our people endure this injustice?" or "Will our company grow or shrink?", no formal answer is expected. Rather, it is a device used by the speaker to assert or deny something.”
It was also laced with sarcasm but thanks for the input just the same. :>)

I was on the VT campus today during all of this in the next building over. I might be jumping to conclusions, but it has been Jewish Awareness Month at VT for the entire month of April. We have had two bomb threats this month with the first one being on Seder (Passover) and one just three days ago. No info has been given about whether or not they are related. Just something to be aware of.

Japan got smart...so what now... Is the good old USA is picking up the rejects?

The stricter visa regulations have been introduced in response to public pressure after a number of high profile violent crimes were linked to Chinese college students living in Japan in 2003. Of the 110,000 foreign students studying in Japanese colleges and universities last year, 70 per cent were from China.

http://www.hothousemedia.com/etm/etmbackissues/septetm04/septetm04news.htm

I just told the ladies in our book club about this and my suspicion that it was a mini-jihad, like the Utah mall. They just don't want to think about this stuff. I don't either but her I am. 2007 and our battle with Islam is raging. No sign of an end, our even our victory...

I used to have nightmares about Nazis - now it's Muslims, unshaven or be-scarfed (or both)

How can we win when they're breeeding like bunniies (or pigs) and converting/intimidating?

What can *I* do?

further

the shooter "foreign, jilted lover, disgruntled student" carried no ID
his finger prints were not found in any data-base
he shot his face off (according to many reports)
yet - somehow - it is known his specific arrival/flight/airline info
pistols used had serial numbers filed off

two pistols - 1 a 22 cal. and 1 a 9 mm
pistol shooting is not so accurate -even at close range

nor are these two small cal. weapons always lethal
unless being used by a very capable i.e. very well trained and experienced shooter -one who could shot accurately into the most vulnerable area of a victim and very very rapidly - to shoot 62 people (half to death) -on the run

VT president should be sued -not the university i.e. taxpayers - for denying citizens their Second Amendment Right - the only provision good citizens of the USA have for self-defense - this horrible situation demonstrates the fallacy that law enforcement even in a controlled "utopia" cannot provide security and protection to the individual -and the US Supreme Court backs this up - in 4 seperate rulings - law enforcement cannot be held responsible

- security, self defense, protection are the resposibility of each and every individual - never can it be left to the "state" -as this is an invitation to tyranny and terror -in any form -e.g. islamofacism
to take away the most effective means of self-defense, security, protection - to disarm the good citizens - is to create a vacuum- which will be filled and ruled by evil

to poster(s) above regarding the notion that gun control is needed - there are over US 5,000 laws and regulations regarding the Second Amendment Right (not to mention those ongoing efforts by internationalists -particularly of the U.N. (united nations against the USA) - how many laws and regulations are there regarding other rights?
if this doesn't make sense - then this: Washington DC is esstentially a No Second Amendment Zone - i.e. no guns - yet it has the highest murder (by guns) in the USA (and likely the world -strange how that utopian dream doesn't work)... Australia banned guns - and crimes increase, even the UN admits (reluctantly no doubt) that the greatest cause of violent death is not attributable to the gun - but to the motor vehicle (let's ban the auto - it kills people)

According to ABC News: "Second male may be involved in VA Tech massacre."

All of this has implications for emergency preparedness in event of future attacks. May VA Tech's apparently total bungling of their handling of the incidents be a lesson to other universities and law enforcement.

It is interesting how Al-BBCeera is still managing to rub in a bit of anti-American (or at least anti-US-establishment) spin on the story. Gun control, violent society, ya da ya da ya da, "but what is THIS MAN going to do about it" sneers the BBC's Mat Fry (cue pictures of George Bush).

The latest seems to be that the man responsible was an exchange student who obtained a visa to enter the USA in Shanghai, China. No apparent links to Islamic terrorism yet, but it still cannot be ruled out given that there were two recent bomb threats made against the university.

The FBI has stated that this is not, I repeat not, terrorist related. It appears to have been a domestic. However, the shooter is said to have been here on a student visa.

I think that is about it. I expect the focus will eventually shift to our 2nd amendment rights, why we shouldn't have them.

The "bomb threat" is suspected to have been made by the shooter as a way of testing security.

No terrorist connection. I'll stand by that.
Good night.

Handgun accuracy is dependant on the user skill and the ammo/gun combination. FN 5.7 and the PLR-16 have very long range hi accuracy potential, Though they differ in concealability profile's The muzzle flash is , well spectacular.

Thanks to KAOSKTRL and the Drudge Report.
This is beginning to LOOK like a domestic dispute.

The guy was upset that his girlfriend was seeing another man. His actions appear deliberate. He came with enough ammo to take care of anyone who got in his way. First he kills her (the easy target) and then sets out to kill her new boyfriend. Is he an engineering student?

This would explain why the guy went to her dorm and then went to the other side of the campus. If he had to go into a classroom to get the guy he would need enough ammo again to make sure he could reach him.

He may have planned for the attack and he may be an expert marksman. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a Muslim. He wouldn't be the first mass murderer to have nothing more than hurt feelings on his mind.

It doesn't explain the actions of the police, however. They keep saying they can't run his fingerprints. Well how about the guns? Aren't they registered? Don't they have serial numbers? This guy sounds like he might be a student. VA Tech doesn't have even a subset of names of Asians there on student visas on file? Was there no one in the woman's dorm who could have given them any information? Did they search her room for a clue to his identity?

The answers will come, but for now I'm withholding judgment on whether this is a terrorist attack. Sometimes things are just what they seem to be. In any case, the police look incompetent, to say the least. They still haven't had proper training from Homeland Security, or so it would seem.

The "Asian shooter" is probably not a muslim, as he was in love with a women. you dont have love and islam together, even in a sentence, just not allowed .

Hey Abdullah,

I guess the joooooooooooooooooos were behind this too, huh? It is obvious to me that you are a holocaust denier and also deny that Muslim's had anything to do with 9-11-2001.

This happens all the time in America.

In 1966, some guy killed people from a clock tower.

'The "Asian shooter" is probably not a muslim, as he was in love with a women. you dont have love and islam together, even in a sentence, just not allowed .'

Zena, that was priceless!

There is no love in Islam. (Unless it's donkey love.)

No terrorist connection. I'll stand by that.
Good night.
Posted by: Jew Grrrl

Jew Grrrl, how can you be so sure of your self?

My first reaction identified this perp differently. I know just a little about profiling, and I figured he was a white, middle class student, quiet to the point of being a loner, and a avid collector of books and articles about things that make him angry. I figured he got passed over for a campus position or award, or believed the campus faculty were out to get him. I was floored to hear this guy was "Asian," and, did I hear correctly? a foreign student? That just does not fit the profile! I'm afraid the answer is one the country won't want to hear . . .

About the bungling of this...Reports indicate that the chaining of the entrance doors (to lock-down the building) unfortunately kept the perp inside while hampering the entrance of the police (the police couldn't get into the building in a timely fashion -- thanks to the doors being chained.) There also seems to have been real communication problems throughout the incident...no central command, etc.

1. Lots of law enforcement experience.
2. Being clairvoyant comes in handy at times.

There will never be a way to stop these types of shootings without confiscating all privately owned firearms. Even then, improvised munitions or illegal firearms could be used. My $0.02

P.S. If just ONE student or teacher had a concealed carry permit, allowing on-campus carry, lives could have been saved. Study the Florida concealed carry laws and the related drop in crime.

(Good one Zena! One of the few who can be counted on for words of wisdom. :))

Bonne nuit

Today is considered the "prophet" Mohammad's birthday in the Shi'ite segment of Islam.

I hope there's no connection.

As far as VT "banning" handguns on campus, that planned worked real well, eh?

Better to face a fine than be placed in pine.

The "Asian shooter" is probably not a muslim, as he was in love with a women. you dont have love and islam together, even in a sentence, just not allowed .

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at April 16, 2007 11:18 PM

these action are not action of love they are actions of bitterness jealousy and hate , even if he wasn't a muslim, he was acting like a very good one.

What a bloody debacle this has turned into. The point should not be missed is what kind of damage could be done instead of one (or even two) but of a group of armed men. What if say 5-10 well armed individuals go on a rampage on any campus and you can expect the death tool to reach over 100-200 at least.

Our law enforcement is too uncoordinated and the university leadership too ignorant to pick up on warning signs and too slow to react in the initial stages of any attack. The truth is this could have been many times worse and it proves to any group of Islamic Jihadist how soft we are. Some will say that it is impossible to defend everything and that is true but at least do what you can do and do it well.

Does anyone say what occurred today is example of doing your best? It was a slow, uncoordinated, and confused response. The only thing that stopped the rampage was the killer himself by his own hand. I know our law enforcement is brave and willing to protect the public and I am not critical of that but bravery is not enough.

Also this is why we have the second amendment. We need more guns not less and more training in how and proper use of them. Anyone who thinks gun control will work is mistaken. We can’t stop drugs, humans, and God knows what else crossing the border so what on earth makes anyone think gun control will stop guns from ending in the hands of Jihadist within the country? I think very little. It is nothing but more utopian nonsense.

Today was an example of multiple failures but the sad part is it could have been much worse. Hard to believe I know.

You can not carry a weapon on to school grounds in florida without commiting a crime, even if you have a CCP

I heard a few hours ago that the cops were backing away from the digruntled boyfriend story. I've heard nothing about it since, and the cop press conferences are about as enlightening as cave diving.

"There is no love in Islam. (Unless it's donkey love.)"

hahaha. You never, and I mean never miss an opportuniy to turn any conversation into a sexually-related topic. You h-a-v-e to be either a pervert whose mind is constantly on such things or totally deprived of sex. hahahha woohooo.

Over and out. See ya!

So 1966 was just yesterday to you eh? I find your post to be as offensive as you probably are in person. 30 + people dead and many more grieving and you come here with that garbage. Too bad it wasn’t you instead the world would right now be a better place. No such luck today but there is always tomorrow , at least for some of us there will be.

A perv would be my best guess. hehe

I'm outta hyar.

Hey, I just report it as they provide the ammunition. I'm fond of men, myself. ; )

Funny people, you know what? Muslims were behind 9/11 too LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Jokers
Posted by: Abdullah

The recurring cold sore is back. Going over the deep end.. 9/11 was done by "the Jooz".. and the palis in Gaza and WB just happened to jump up and down in joy.

To show their appreciation for all the money we send the bastards.

As a matter of fact a few posts are extremely offensive, which leads me to believe we have a thread load of islamists logged on. Remind me to laugh next time a bunch of islamist students get it. Never will I have any pity for the roaches in this world and it proves that many of them are not getting what they deserve by simply being stepped on a squashed like the bugs that they are.

This whole thing still smells like terrorism to me.

The cold premeditation and planning.

The preparation inc. bomb threats to test security.

The fact the 'authorities' are withholding information as much and as long as they can.

This guy knew how to use these weapons. He did not seem like a casual user.

Though I admit I am no expert.

This is such a senseless tragedy. We will probably learn that this guy was a student who was either a jilted lover, or he had a fascination with violence in search of a spectacular death.

Or he may have suffered a tragic loss in his own life, and he wanted to equalize the pain (for himself) by causing pain for others by going on a murder/suicide rampage.

I don't think there are any political connections to this horrible tragedy -- instead personal pain and perhaps a mental illness that led this guy to snap. Very, very sad.

Well, it does look like a commando hit.

But God forbid I should come up with a "strange " theory.

But a lot of people here, are saying that this is the perfect chance for the gun ban to be promoted.

Now I ask you, I ask you, why would our gov want to ban guns, eh?

BTW, it also looks like we've can't count on the police to help us -

1 -the lack of advising the students - the campus should have been crowded with Swat teams.

2- the time between the two incidents - with the police doing nothing and assuming -ASSUMING (the police's words) the earlier incident was all of it. How very unprofessional.

Well, it's beginning to look like we CANNOT coount on the police AT ANY TIME for our safety.

As the Anti-Jihad Conference in Denmark said:

WE'RE ON OUR OWN!

I get it, tg. It gets old, but I get it.

BTW, the police spokesperson said they have no information on the identity or motive of the dead suspect, but he stressed that it was not terror related.

Posted by: special_guest

"spokesperson" is not an english word. The correct term is "spokesman" or "spokewoman." "Spokesperson" does not exist in the english language (see the Oxford English dictionary).

OT

Does anyone know where I can get a boil lanced?

This is very suspicious:

"disgruntled student" carried no ID
his finger prints were not found in any data-base
he shot his face off (according to many reports)
yet - somehow - it is known his specific arrival/flight/airline info
pistols used had serial numbers filed off

two pistols - 1 a 22 cal. and 1 a 9 mm
pistol shooting is not so accurate -even at close range

nor are these two small cal. weapons always lethal
unless being used by a very capable i.e. very well trained and experienced shooter -one who could shot accurately into the most vulnerable area of a victim and very very rapidly - to shoot 62 people (half to death) -on the run "

-----------------------

I'm going to keep this in mind.

"Student Matt Maroney said: 'He had an ungodly amount of ammo on him. He was just dressed in a vest filled with clips and started firing away at classrooms.'"

From an article posted on Drudge. If this was just a domestic quarrel or something random, why all the ammo?

'The "Asian shooter" is probably not a muslim, as he was in love with a women. you dont have love and islam together, even in a sentence, just not allowed .'

Yes - there's no love in islam - but islamic men consider they own women - and that ONE one else is going to have her. Get my point?

Allahfanculo --

Whether this was an act of terrorism (although I don't think that it was), you are certainly right about one thing, this guy DID know his weapons, and he knew how to use them. And he was probably fascinated with using them, and with violence too.

My own brother owned over 30 weapons, some of them were illegal, and he had was fascinated with guns/violence/meth. I finally called the police and told them about his illegal weapons, about my concerns, and some of the crazy things he was doing/saying.

Fortunately, the police took my call seriously and they raided his house; and the reason I did that, was to prevent a tragedy like this one from ever happening. My brother went to jail, and he is now a felon and he cannot own guns; and I thank God that he's no longer a threat to himself or society, and that he's slowly turning his life around.

Whoever this gunman is, I'm fairly certain that his family/friends knew something was wrong, and they knew that something might happen as there were probably some major red flags that they chose to ignore. I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that someone had a 'sense' that this might happen, but they were too afraid to take action and to do the right thing -- report him to proper authorities. Calling police on a loved one is difficult, but tragedies like this are even harder, they are devastating and permanent.

Those poor families. Please bring comfort and peace to their hearts and lives, Lord, if such a thing is possible.

Tsuga, those who live by the gun, die by the gun, and this has happened far too frequently in America to say that this must necessarily have been perpertrated by a muslim.

Tsuga, those who live by the gun, die by the gun, and this has happened far too frequently in America to say that this must necessarily have been perpertrated by a muslim.

If this topic were not posted then all other topics would be inundated with it, so I agree with putting it up.

I've seen the "24 year old Chinese national" I.D. a few times now from different sources, so there's probably something to it. And if Chinese then probably not Muslim. Still possible, but unlikely as the vast majority of Chinese are not Muslim.

Bingo is right that the initial theories centered on a jilted lover going after his ex-girlfriend) but that now it isn't at all clear. And that early theory is what kept the V-Tech administration from locking down the campus since they viewed it as an "isolated incident". Oh how tragically wrong that was!

Unfortunately, killing sprees are not something entirely new, though they happen more frequently now than ever. Nor are campus killing sprees unheard of. As someone else already pointed out, there was the guy in the U-Texas clock tower in 1966, and most recently the shooting spree at Dawson College in Montreal.

Still, it's not wrong for us to be suspicious that Sudden Jihad Syndrome is involved when facts are so slow in coming and the media seem to not be revealing everything they know.

But in this case it appears so far that the media really don't know much of anything and are not shielding for Islam.

We'll find out more tomorrow. Anything this big and all the facts will come out.

Voltaire,
Some who live with the gun don’t die precisely because of that gun, others who live without the gun still end up dead because of the gun. You can’t uninvent the gun and because some bad guys will always build them other good guys must have them. It’s not the gun it is the person behind the gun that matters. And I’m pretty sure I haven’t accused anyone except little green men for this crime as of yet. Ever see a group of people hacked to pieces by a machete? Not a pretty sight and you know it was an extremly torturous ordeal. Go ahead shoot me, just dont hack me to death or set me on fire. We arent going to ban fire are we?

This is similar to the McDonald's Massacre that happened in San Ysidro in 1984. There appears to be no motive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Oliver_Huberty

Abdullah said

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL BLAME THE MUSLIM AGAIN!!!

That's pretty sad, when Muslims are laughing out loud and proud just because there's an incident of violence somewhere that was NOT inspired by the Qur'an. "See? That proves Islam is peaceful."

It could be that he was from Western China, or even perhaps a convert to the ROP. But until I have such information I will treat this as not being an attack by the ROP. Though it was very well planned or so it seems

As for people talking about gun laws, the left will jump straight on this to try to ban guns therefore sadly the left assault needs to be headed off before people are even burried.

The most worrying aspect for me (and mentioned by a few others here) is that a major USA university was wide open for almost 3 hours, even taking in account incompetence by the police that is just amazing. Can you imagine what a large group of AK-47 wielding ROP's could do. Any large campus should have a plan for such an attack or even a couple of armed guards.

I feel sorry for those people who died and their loved ones.

"Can you imagine what a large group of AK-47 wielding ROP's could do. Any large campus should have a plan for such an attack or even a couple of armed guards."

That won't happen until two other things happen:

1) several attacks by Muslims occur in various places and venues throughout the USA, with much higher casualties

2) the PC paradigm gets adjusted at least enough to admit the degree of rationality that identifies Muslims per se (not just a "tiny minority of extremists") as potential attackers.

Champ

How could you do that to your bro? By landing him in jail, you put him in the company of Mohammedans, and next thing you know, he'll recite the shehada and embark on Jihad. You should have had him educated about Muslims here, and then sent him off on an anti-Muslim Jihad - maybe Bosnia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan (have him shack up with Naseem and her childrens, and rescue her infidel convert daughter-in-law.) with all his weapons. Payback for Taheriazar, Talovic, Naveed ul Hassan, Popal, et al.

Just pulling your leg. Glad he's turning himself around. Just hope he's not surrounded by Mohammedans.

Robert Spencer and his cult followers are on their knees praying hard for the shooter at the campus to be Muslim. - Ibn

_____________

Personally, I hope it wasn't a Muslim.
However, I won't be surprised if it is.

As far as praying - I'm praying for those poor victims and the gunner as well. Mercy... try it.

Unfortunately, given the fact that there is no official ID of the gunner yet I fear that isn't a good sign.

Make that Naveed Latif

Assalamau Laikum all,

My condolences to the families of the dead kaffur...these peoples who died were part of the cream of your societies...learned peoples...potential wealth generators, presidents!

The responsibility for this is lies in your liberal gun laws...I hear that this state has possibly the weakest gun laws in the USA(for now).

I have heard so much about how you will be defending yourselves with them...just like these people...feel lucky to be in USA do you?...I am sure they did too...up till yesterday.

Even hundreds of police could not prevent this, the habitual bad weather that your country has could not prevent this...

Allah T'allah says in the Quaran "some things are good for you...even though you may not see it that way" ...perhaps now the gun laws will change ...perhaps some good can come out of this tradegy.

Who can know the will of Allah T'allah?...

CNN is now reporting that one of the dead professors was a Holocaust survivor and a prominent legend on campus. Poor guy. What a way to go after surviving all of that.

Dear God, be with the families of those killed or injured. Also be with the VT college community and all college communites as they try to sort out through this horrible time. Be with the USA O God, who is the Divine Mercy. Amen

Did you notice that the first thing to come out after the small amount of information on the shooter was articles asking if it was now time to tighten our gun laws? The shooter was not a random, accidental or passion filled murderer, nor were those articles accidental. Someone was waiting in the wings for an incident that would further their purpose of taking away our guns.

Naseem gloats over the deaths of our children, one who was in my daughter's circle of friends. But she/he underestimates our natural love for life and the ends we'll go to to protect it. And love of life, like love of God, is stronger than hatred and love of death and Satan. The one has all the power while the other has very little.

We here at Jihad Watch, except for the self-destructive trolls, need to use this tragedy to further our goal to rid ourselves of a foe that has said they want our subjugation, has said they don't care if they kill us to get that subjugation and who believes peace will come through annihilation and death. Enough. Who cares if the shooter was or wasn't a Muslim? The Muslims tell us that they have a Koran given right to murder us to achieve their goals, they tell us they will do it, and they do it. Now with the shootings at Virginia Tech, and the shootings at the Salt Lake City Mall, and all the other atrocities being committed on our soil that are coming with some frequency now ("If we fight over there we won't have to fight it over here") we can clearly see a pattern of people who don't belong in our country taking the law into their own hands and using it to get away with murder.

The Drudge Report has an article saying the parents want the chief of police and the president of VT fired. I want the politicians who won't protect our country fired. And just like Brigitte Gabriel says to do. I'm going to get the attention of these lawmakers with faxes, phone calls and e-mails from everybody I know, letting them know that, no, we will not give up our guns and no, we will not tolerate anymore nonsense from people who are here on student visas.

Gloat all you want, Naseem. I'm still praying for your conversion to Christianity and for you to become a member of the human race.

I must say that I am impressed you Americans even extend the right to bear arms to the FOREIGNORS in your midst.

Wake up..

"...perhaps now the gun laws will change ...perhaps some good can come out of this tradegy. "

....people with guns, live longer.....

....people with no guns die by the hands of those who have them...

....countries with stringent gun laws have discovered they do not work...

"Gun Control" IS the Key to GENOCIDE"

This whole horrible incident will change college campuses forever. This will make not only the ROTC popular again but will end up bringing in the metal detectors.

Naseem

"YUCK"

Does Robert Spencer or Jihad Watch have an email address? I want to send him a link to an article and the comments form ain't cutting it.

Who can know the will of Allah T'allah?...
Posted by: Naseem,
Naseem it is very easy to know what the devil wants aka your moon god allah, it is stinking evil and you are a slave to this devil.
you have a choice Naseem, you can leave your death cult and join the human race or stay for ever in the death throes of a dying evil cult. your choice, our God has given to mankind "free choice".

Assalamau Laikum Isabella,

You say "Naseem gloats over the deaths of our children, one who was in my daughter's circle of friends".

I'm very sorry that you chose to see my response in this manner. I re-read my post and cannot see the gloating bit...it offers condolenses and is matter of fact and should be read like that...perhaps you can enlighten me....please do not see it like that simply because I am a muslima.

Although this does not affect me directly...I can see the day when some armed kaffur(s) will go out and simply target Allah's chosen in the Amerike.

Your police may choose to turn a blind eye...or be equally ineffective as they were yesterday....and they were weren't they (and that is matter of fact too ...not gloating).

With less weapons on the street the likelyhood of muslims/wuslims also reduces ...and that can only be a good thing.

As for christianity...conversion ...forget it...I need to remain Ahmadi and see allah's SWT glorious wings spread the world over...it not if ...but when.

I don't know if Islam is taught at V Tech...but it should.

Posted by: Brenda S., maybe you should read the koran before you make offhanded statements.

Good reason for everybody to get a gun. When a critical mass of citizenry is armed and properly trained in the use of those arms then these pukes will have a shorter shelf life.

Notice how phoney naseem pushes a liberal agenda to disarm the citizenry. It doesn't bother phoney naseem that these people use guns.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/04/this-is-not-bbc-cnn.html

That's just allan's will.

nabi ZK

Or was that allen's flat earth policy?

notice how the media is calling a massacre for the time being until the shooter is revealed to a muslim then it's terrorism) it's a lot bunny stuff
posted by Ibn B

I find it interesting that you are saying when and not if he is revealed as a muslim. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

It's alamost 24 hours later. No name for the perp.

The second professor, actually the one who was shot first point blank to the head is Kevin Granata. Google him and you come up with a lot. including biometric engineering especially of the spinal cord. Robotics.

Asian student is from Shanghi, is a student at VAtech. All students at VATech have laptops, hence the e-mails. There is a live 'person of interest' in custody??

News conference @9 AM. I wish I were a gambling person. I would put money on the fact that his name is Mohammed and that's why we haven't heard it yet.

Naseem and other trolls. Yes, we are jumping to conclusions here.
That's why this is called Jihadwatch and not Jihad 20/20 Hindsight. If you don't like what this group of intelligent people are saying, while being very careful to reserve judgement. Go somewhere that has a lot of ranting idiots. Try a Mosque.
At least you can count on Americans to NOT go out in the streets in a rampage against all muslims if it turns out that some student got him yelling Allah Akbar on the vides phone. BTW Fox is solicting pics from students on their website.

Phoney naseem dances on the graves of our
children just to see if she(?) can get a reaction. See her dance and sing out with glee. Oh what enjoyment! What a joke on the kuffar.

Can anyone doubt the sole purpose of this fraud is to incite an angry response? But to use such a tragedy in this manner shows really what kind of mentalit(y)/(ies) we are dealing with. Truely a disgusting display.

nabi ZK

BTW nabi ZK does not pre judge the identity or religion of the shooter or shooters. Time will tell.

ZK

"Good reason for everybody to get a gun. When a critical mass of citizenry is armed and properly trained in the use of those arms then these pukes will have a shorter shelf life."

Obviously 200 million guns are insufficient to protect the American people yet. Perhaps another 200 million will do it, or maybe a third....

More importantly and telling is who are the victims? Were any muslims ID'd as victims...

Assalamau Laikum all,

Look...I am not gloating over the death of these peoples...I understand that one of the professors was an Indian....

please stop saying that ...or provide evidence of your post

Is this 'Asian' male from Indonesia? I wouldn't be surprised since Indonesia is the most populace Muslim country in the world. This killing came on the Anniversary of Yom Hashoah...Holocaust Rememberance Day. One of the Professors at the College that was killed was Liviu Librescu an Israeli. Is there a connection?
Was this the act of a lone Islamo-fascist?
Should we expect more shootings on April 20th...the anniversary of Columbine and Hitlers (may his name and memory be blotted out!) birthday?

I thought that anybody who knows Islam would find this offensive:

My condolences to the families of the dead kaffur....

You are a sick person just like many of your fellow cultists.

The Contrarian

Against common logic. That's the ticket. A real intelectual. Please explain, how gun laws would have been effective in this case since the shooter was a foreigner and already not able to legally own firearms.

nabi ZK

Indeed Daffersd the offense was deliberate and the climb down was a ruse just to get another reaction. Look at the ending with ... show evidence. What BS.

nabi ZK

I believe authorities are spinning a WHOPPER, creating a person and timeline so-to-speak. There is no good reason for such a delay in reporting the identity of the shooter.

Mohammed might become Michael, etc...

"...I can see the day when some armed kaffur(s) will go out and simply target Allah's chosen in the Amerike.

Posted by: Naseem"

....If the Muslims keep killing people and trying to force their way upon ....this senario could begin....There may be open war on Muslims...it is apparently exactly what the Muslims want...

Terrorist of a different flavor ID:

23 year old South Korean Senior English major. Cho Seung-Hui

I am sure some here will be dissapointed but the BBC has announced:

"The gunman who killed at least 30 people at Virginia Tech university in the US was South Korean Cho Seung-Hui, aged 23, police say."

Your hate mongering was unwarranted.

Naseem wrote:
"...I can see the day when some armed kaffur(s) will go out and simply target Allah's chosen in the Amerike."

Yes, Nazi. Mooslimes will go out and shoot in Baal-lah's name because that is what you devil-worshippers do. You commit the worst crimes to appease Baal-lah's bloodlust.

When are you Islamotards going to get it? Civilized people don't murder in Yahweh's name.

Oh, I forgot...Baal-lah and Yahweh are synonymous. Why is that? Yahweh is not Allah.

Your god is not our God. The Koran is not an extension of The Bible and The Torah.

As for Mooslimes killing American citizens on American soil. Do you want America to see what is behind the mask of Islam? Do you really want Americans to understand that Islam is nothing more than organized crime masquerading as a religion?

Or, are you Islamotards going to keep waging the slow jihad by bribing dhimmicrats in The Congress? Are you Islamotards going to keep whining about Mooslime intolerance to the Liberal Left and the media?

http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/04/virginia-tech-gunman.html

zonie kafir, totally agree, she is getting worse at it.

Stefen, do you happen to know whether he found god recently, do you know that for certain, so he was South Korean, hmmmmmm, can't be, but Islam is not a race is it, it is an ideology and anyone can join this cult.

I like many here do not think he was Islamic, but there may be a possibility that he was, but until I know for sure I will not discount it.

The Salt Lake mall was a Muslim wasn't it, I suppose that is hate mongering in your terms, your rather sad!

jesusisthelamb,
Conspiracy theories? Please. And if you believe what you say about God, Jesus and the end of the world what exactly are you afraid of? Do you think you can stop it? If it was foretold and must occur, why worry? You are starting to make me think you are either insane, gullible or you really don’t believe what you say you believe.

Posted by: tgusa

---------------------------------------------

Hello, but I am not afraid if not more prepared, but does not mean human instincts does not want to know about it and be prepared I'd rather live through it than not. Well the worry element is that lots of people may perish because of the end time events and lots of people you know are not ready if it happens even the ones around us.

I just have many views of reading; I don't stick to one subject alone -Islam, technology, UfO related encounters entities, Ancient civilisations, spirituality, secret societies, the planet earth and space, Geographic related prophesy as predicted, faith VS other faiths and politics or conspiracies. I like to see it as a whole not just in parts and as I write it's not final it's evolving all the time, which make me sound like I not solid in one view of thought. The views on this website by a lot of people here would be argued back by you own people in your country which ever it was. Believe me people see a website like this as anti-Muslim fear mongering but to a lot of us we are just aware, we see the problems as politics and society let it happen.
I am afraid I cannot let go of other variables to this world I like many subjects and don't tie my self down to just this site to set views on.
Sorry if they disturb people but this article is open to views ones which happen to evolve in a conversation with someone else pointing out I am not as naive as I seem, try not to be judgemental it can back fire, and if people ask by sensible manners the website might not get a bad name from other sites that as a whole think we who come here islamo-phobic(that fake word) if not racist.

Let's not forget about Yong Ki Kwon, a Northern Virginia KOREAN engineer who converted to Islam and wanted to fight in Afghanistan.

Interesting read:

Witness testifies against Al-Timimi

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:VqFKgXTw4lQJ:pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_322506.html+Virginia+Tech+muslim+shooting&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

I still think this looks an awful lot like a planned terrorist attack. We need more information on the gunman.

Daffersd: "The Salt Lake mall was a Muslim wasn't it"

I wasn't aware that malls had religion. I would hazard a guess that if malls had a religion the one in Salt Lake would be Mormon.

Here's hoping English is your second language, if not, some remedial course work is recommended.

Thanks for playing.

Pay no attention to Stefan. He is just another idiot troll. Will these morons never cease?

nabi ZK

BTW idiot. It is well known that the Salt Lake Mall IS mohametan. Please take note of it! Fool.

nabi ZK

Yeah. Like, for clarity and all, Stefan is the fool.

ZK

search "hate crime" 9-11 site:.gov

"
Federal Bureau of Investigation
He was the first murder victim of the 9/11-related hate crime backlash in America.
"

"
Additionally, 278 hate crime allegations associated with the events of 9/11 have been investigated.
"

But is 9-11 listed as a hate crime? Is it listed as Christian and Jew cleansing by a Muslim hate group?

Virgil Goode Right: Stop Muslim Immigration

You can bet that if an American had gone to study in another country and lined fellow students up and executed them, the story now would include other Americans living there being dragged out and killed the citizens rampaging around looking for other innocent Americans to attack. The fact that we are so well armed yet no Americans are dragging foreign nationals in this case Asians out and attacking them speaks volumes about us. We have proven yet again what we as a civilization are made of.
Order of responsibility,
1. The US Congress for trashing the Constitution and particularly the Second Amendment through illegal laws while not doing the duties proscribed there in, primarily the failure to verify that those who are allowed in are the kind of people we want here among us.
2. The school administrators for their blatant disregard for the Second Amendment and the atmosphere of anti American hate tolerated at these institutions.
3. The police “command” (not the cop on the street) for their utter failure under pressure to respond with orders to the cops on the street that may have prevented the second event from ever taking place.
4. Us for not demanding that people from other countries that show anti American hostility or the chanting of death to America are excluded from entering our country unless proven beyond a sliver of a doubt that the student/visitor is beyond reproach.

Yesterday many were killed by one man with a gun but the groundwork for this crime has been laid months, years before by PCMC fools in every branch of guvment/public and private institutions. Guns don’t kill people alone they need help and lately they have been getting that help. Americans, you have not surprised me, you have acted as I thought you would and that is why I will never be anything else. I am proud to be a member along with you in this greatest of all nations, ever. We will survive this and move forward, that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

So, a South Korean English Major and resident alien, not Chinese from Shanghai.

Still probably not Muslim unless a recent convert.

Killing was done in silence, no cries of "Allahu Akbar" or anything else. And he did commit suicide after killing his fill, again not the Islamic way unless simultaneously murdering many innocents in a big bang.

But who knows? More concrete info is still needed.

South Korean resident alien, English major. A so called "loner".

You can all go home now.

ThinkForYourself, you can go back to sleep now.

Anyone remember this?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/002328.php

"With less weapons on the street the likelyhood of muslims/wuslims also reduces ...and that can only be a good thing....... "
Posted by: Naseem

........this appears to be true...in Muslim held lands, the first people attacked are those without guns....

ZK, I just put him right on the hate mongering thing, as for the petty insults its normal for this type of sado when they can't reply to facts.

Well now to watch Decent Fellows on Hot Air.

At what point does the government become complicit in ethnic cleansing denial?

1992 Democrat Coalition calls Virgil Goode Bigot

Isn't the denial that 9-11 was Christian and Jew cleansing by a Muslim hate group, a form of ethnic cleansing or genocide denial? Wasn't the scripted attack by Begala, Christian and Jew cleansing denial? Wasn't it intentional and premeditated denial? Doesn't this denial facilitate further acts of Christian and Jew cleansing by Muslim hate groups?

Is al Qaeda listed as a hate group? Is the Muslim Brotherhood listed as a hate group? Does the Democrat Party ask members of hate groups to bless their meetings where they plan election and immigration strategy?

"Yesterday many were killed by one man with a gun but the groundwork for this crime has been laid months, years before by PCMC fools in every branch of guvment/public and private institutions. Guns don’t kill people alone they need help and lately they have been getting that help. Americans, you have not surprised me, you have acted as I thought you would and that is why I will never be anything else. I am proud to be a member along with you in this greatest of all nations, ever. We will survive this and move forward, that which does not kill you makes you stronger."

Tgusa, exactly!

Poor, pathetic, misled Naseem. Like the Communists of almost a century ago, she dreams of peace but the only way (she deludes herself) that she can get it is through chaos. Naseem sees this event yesterday as a furtherance of her goal of Islamic world domination as a means to utopia. But if anyone thinks that there will be peace if the whole world goes Muslim, think again. We've seen that the Sunnis and the Shites have no respect for each other's beliefs and regularly kill each other (good Muslims!) in the name of the same god, and have been for over a thousand years. And if Islam ever were to be in place, the psychos that would be running the asylum would be searching for ever more pure forms of it, cleansing the earth of all undesirables. After us, that means YOU Naseem.

Laugh all you want. Make fun of the dead children of the Kuffar, pretend like you don't know you've given offense when that was exactly your plan. I'm going to pray and pray and pray for you, and you will not be able to resist the call of Our Lord who wants you for His own.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Smells like a coverup. No fingerprints available yesterday and vola' they have them today. On and on...

Nice point by the Goobs.

I wonder what was in this disturbing note that has been mentioned in the news?

People, Islam does exist in S Korea, along with Buddhism, Christianity, and whatever else. I don't think these shootings have anything to do with "Cho's" religion, but it would still be interesting to find out. If it is Muslim, the liberal news media probably won't mention it.

Poor "Naseem," eh? She's so brainwashed by the Arabian pagan Moon-god, lol!

Not one of the students interviewed recognized his name. Did he not have a room-mate?

I smell BS...

He was Korean, and a terrorist. He killed 32 people execution style. What ever his reason, he was still a terrorist.

Excellent post, tgusa. I found it unseemly, unpatriotic, and downright malicious to hear American "culture" immediately condemned -- the sheer alacrity of the condemnations -- long before anyone even knew the identity of the perpetrator! Thus, on the Lou Dobbs' program, they were all busily condemning "American culture." Yet, as we see today, the shooter was a Korean. I think Lou Dobbs owes an apology to all those he so speedily condemned.

Thanks darcy,
I completely forgot to include the leftwing media roaches (see last nights post) for their spreading of hate of us worldwide for their lies and distortions that even today are leading to the death of our countrymen and women. But Congress has allowed them to become a fourth branch of guvment even though that is never mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution. If you are looking for the root of the problem, the true culprits in all of this just turn on your TV or go to the Movies, except for maybe the 300, THIS IS AMERICA!

To all who have commented, I thank you all.

JWers are angry that he wasnt an Arab, a Pakistani or at least a Bosnian. Some refuse to accept that he wasnt a Muslim, they need to hold a Muslim responsible and will simply assume that he was a convert or worse that the leftist media is covering it up.
one more thing which was not once mentioned on this site, the Salt Lake City authorities denied a link to terrorism. The police chief admitted to being frustrated "by people who have speculated that Talovic's Muslim upbringing had something to do with the shooting."

Sorry you had to be disappointed again guys.

Robert,

I sincerely wish you hadn't posted something about the VT shooting immediately, and waited until the police got more evidence about the psycho killer. The kind of speculation and conspiracy mongering I saw here is despicable. We don't need to be seen as frothing-at-the-mouth crazies like Debbie Schlussel, or other crazy conservatives. It takes away from the integrity of your blog. Not to mention the victims of the tragedy. And here's a link that lists the names of the people killed yesterday:

[url] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18143312/ [/url]

Warning: Some of the names might sound foreign to you. Just letting you know, before you get your panties in a knot.

ABC News is reporting that Cho came to US with his family in 1992, eight years old. His family first settled in Detroit.

Detroit huh? 8 years old.... hmmm.. sounds like Korean culture would have very little to do with anything.

He is obviously a product of the ghetto thug mentality espoused by folks such as Eminem! :D

AuntBea,

He was a "foreign national", and we don't yet know enough about his background to immediately condemn "American culture" (or for that matter, "Korean culture"). Certainly, it was uncalled for yesterday on the Lou Dobbs program to jump to unwarranted conclusions. If WE all agree that we have to WAIT to know all the facts (NOTE, I'm not condemning "Korean culture"), then that should go for EVERYONE -- and that would include AMERICANS.

Whatever his motive, he was a terrorist.

Point of entry: DETROIT

Signed note: ISHMAEL X

Ok, now I'm starting to get very antsy to know even more about this killers motives.

ISHMAEL

Gender: Masculine

Usage: Biblical, English

Pronounced: ISH-may-el [key]
From the Hebrew name יִשְׁמָעֵאל (Yishma'el) meaning "God will hear". In the Old Testament this is the name of a son of Abraham. He is the traditional ancestor of the Arabs.

In addition, the "X" could very well be an overtone to Malcom X -- infamous American Muslim.

Just got home from an appointment this morning and had checked the Foxnews website and they had the bold words, "Face Of A Killer". The shooter was from South Korea!

Or it could be Ismael AXE. Details are still getting messed up by the media.

AXE?!

I surely don't even need to comment on that irony.

From wrathofasma's link:
# Liviu Librescu, 76, an engineering science and mathematics lecturer. He was born in Romania, immigrated to Israel in 1978 and moved to Virginia in 1985. “My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee,” his son Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. “Students started opening windows and jumping out.” Librescu was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering.

He was a true hero. He was a holocaust survivor.

Shooting supect left a note
Chicago Tribune, IL - 1 hour ago
... note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances and died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. ...

College gunman left note
Chicago Tribune, IL - 19 minutes ago
The note included a rambling list of grievances and ended with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. ...

New! Get the latest news on Ismail Ax with Google Alerts.

turner,

"JWers are angry that he wasnt an Arab, a Pakistani or at least a Bosnian. Some refuse to accept that he wasnt a Muslim, they need to hold a Muslim responsible and will simply assume that he was a convert or worse that the leftist media is covering it up.
one more thing which was not once mentioned on this site, the Salt Lake City authorities denied a link to terrorism. The police chief admitted to being frustrated "by people who have speculated that Talovic's Muslim upbringing had something to do with the shooting."

Sorry you had to be disappointed again guys."

Turner, in this post-9/11 age, a massive slaugther like what had happened yesterday at VT with so many people either killed or injured is in itself an act of TERRORISM. Just because the shooter was an Asian, South Korean, does not me he commited an act of TERRORISM, which he did. Tell what you said to the the VT community.

turner,

Why did the shooter take on the name "Ismael AXE" ?

Assalamau Laikum all,

I am disgusted at some of the comments here since this person's identity has been known. You peoples don't care for the dead like I have tried to....only the sheer disappointment that he is not connected to Islam.

It's just utter and sheer disappointement that this korean was not affliated to Islam in some way.

Perhaps one of your grand daddie killed his ralative during the korean war....you need to get over it...Islam has nothing to do with this one.

Allah SWT works in strange ways...you know this.

His note condemned the "debauchery" on campus. Signing as Ishmael X does suggest a convert to Islam.

Still watching developments, including the letter. I'm hoping the Chicago papers, which seem to be leading in getting info out, get their hands on more of the letter, which should answer some more questions on Cho's mindset.

Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor

bigcatgirl, of course its an act of terrorism, my point is that JWers are VERY disappointed and angry he wasnt some middle eastern student.

And this is Jihadwatch not terrorism watch which is why this site doesnt cover Tamil suicide bombers for instance.

Of course we both know that had he been a Pakistani then it would've been case closed (Islamic terrorism) based solely on his ethnic background (like the Salt Lake City shooting)

I am not disappointed that the VT killer was not a muslim...just, well, surprised.

The truth will eventually become clear. Like the Cult of Kali, Islam must be rooted out and eradicated.

We are not hate mongering or jumping to conclusions although I have seen the other side gloating and taunting as well as leaping to blame us. Their arguments are becoming weaker and wearing thin to the point that they expose themselves for what they are American haters. Why dont you have the guts to come out and speak the truth cowards? They don’t care who you are, if you are Red, White and Blue they hate you. However, it does appear that the story is chasing us as it unfolds right before our eyes. Turn on your TV if you can stand it the media roaches are at it again.

"I am not disappointed that the VT killer was not a muslim...just, well, surprised."

you do realize that there have been one or two shootings in the US that werent committed by Muslims right?

Korean could be from Bali! Allafan speaks with fork tongue! Asian guy will find to have herpes in his ear-same type as Allahfan! Mentioning Fox and 9-11 and the planes hitting. I have always found it odd before the second plane hit they said on Fox, "IT'S BIN-LADEN!" How do you explain that? I keep asking them, they will not answer! Expect more! Like there are no Asians south of us! People come here through shark infested waters and are turned back. They will learn to come up through Mehico! We never find out the story on the two snipers that changed their name to muslim names!
Our freedoms certainly taken away! I really thought they would stop these Visa's people and people coming here so easy! It is easier now since 9-11 all is being exposed!

Turner,

Why don't you speak for yourself, eh? Why are you claiming to be able to speak for all those you call "JWers"? YOU do NOT speak for me. I speak for myself. And, since YOU are posting at JihadWatch, guess what -- that makes you a "JWer."

So while you're anxiously pointing fingers at others -- I'm thinking, you're the one who should be taking a closer look in the mirror. Your condemnations can just as easily be applied to yourself -- in the event you haven't noticed.

Naseem will eat her words when the truth finally comes out. Expect CAIR, though, to twist this thread for their own purposes.

BTW, Naseem, feel free to go f__k yourself. You have no business getting indignant about ANYTHING here.

Turner stop bing a racist, its an ideology!!!

At least one victim was a Muslim. "Ross Abd'Allah Alameddine" In the wrangle to place blame on everyone here it would seem that the victims are being forgot about.

You all need to start thinking about yourselves when it seems you delight in the deaths of others to try and prove your own point.

32 innocent people are dead and all you can do is try to figure out a way to make these deaths support your own point of view. Sad.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting.victims/index.html

@turner:

I'm thinking it would be very wise for you to stop typing inflammatory statements until more is known about the letter and "Ismael Ax" -- unless you'd like to surmise that the killer was studying Hebrew and was an Axel Rose fan.

Frothing at the mouth, what a load of rubbish, speculation yes but hardly forthing, this is like the fuss being made over calling the second Lord of the Rings film the Two Towers, show some respect, I want to know if it was related to the Islamic war against the others and the letter is key to this.

As for this rubbish:

The police chief admitted to being frustrated "by people who have speculated that Talovic's Muslim upbringing had something to do with the shooting."
Sorry you had to be disappointed again guys.

NAIVE person alert!!!

Sorry - I forgot in my previous post
Killing 32 people is not an act of terrorism unless it is motivated by an ideological or political belief.

It is extremely sad but not terrorism.

What an idiot, they will never delete that post. Dude go back to mothers basement and take your meds. Although they should as using the word muzzie tells me you are probably an islamist/apologist/antagonist, very little difference. You ******* fool there are enemies of this site and guess what, they post here attempting to smear us as hateful so get you head out of your ***.

"This site is here to try and promote a serious message: There is a problem with Islam. In order to be taken seriously we have to wait for facts and THEN bang the drum - not the other way round."

Horsecrap. We have as much of a right to use these forums for conjecture and detective work as much as for straight opinions based on "facts" that oftentimes turn out to be false, misleading, incorrect or covered-up as they do turn out to be point on. The entire "War on a Terror" is an insult to our collective intelligence!

If people want to come here and seek for ways to marginalize further the few thousand JW readers that are aware and awake to the threat of Islam because it might make them feel better about their own ignorance and cowardice in the fact of a very real threat, then let them throw all the spitballs they wish. At the end of the day, I for one, do not give a damn about what such people might attempt to label me as. I deal with such trolls every week on my own blog and I'm sure poor R.S. has to filter out even more here between the lines -- and most of them are NOT interested in anything on-topic at JW, but instead are just interested in proliferating hate against JW readers.

Yes, I'm so sure this 23 year Green Card holder with a plan to murder dozens of Americans and complaining about the "rich" and "debauchery" will just turn out to be an X-Box addict with a penchant for reading the book Moby Dick, but I'm somehow not convinced yet. Forgive me.

And quit using terms like Muzzies!! You want to sound idiotic, that's a great way to start.

Actually I think that Stefen and Turner are the ones insulting the deaths of these people by using their deaths to throw mud at JWrs, I wish you will bugger off back to your 9-11 was done by Bush sites and play intellectual masturbation there.

Maybe the name is not 'Ismail Ax' but 'Ismail Ak'. The guy could have had poor handwriting.

Look -- for the nth time -- there are a range and number of views on this discussion board. Not everyone believes: "All Muslims are guilty!" nor do all believe: "All Americans are guilty!" And the posts are anonymous (thus, those who claim "it was definitely a Muslim mass murderer!!" could, in fact, be a Muslim provocateur who can then claim that "JWers are 'foaming at the mouth' falsely accusing" -- etc.).

One more time -- there are a number of posters here -- all with different viewpoints. To make accusations which begin by stating: "All JWers want to see a Muslim accused!!" -- are themselves, making condemnatory, blanket accusations. Got that? Thus, it is hypocritical for those who wish to brand "all as being X" (all X are Y), and then state that they're just so "outraged" by blanket condemnations...One more time -- you cannot logically be consistent if you make blanket condemnations against group X (that includes JWers, that includes Americans, that includes Muslims), then claim that you hate blanket condemnations. Got that or do I have to repeat myself?

MZ said

I have always found it odd before the second plane hit they said on Fox, "IT'S BIN-LADEN!" How do you explain that?

On the morning of 9/11, watching the towers burn on tv, I turned to my girlfriend and said "It's Bin Laden" (and almost put my fist through the wall). That was before any news service I was watching (I don't watch FOX, btw) said anything about OBL. I didn't know anything about Islam yet (years before finding JW/DW), but I had confusedly watched the Taliban destroy the statues at Bamiyan, and the assassination of the Kurdish Mahmoud a couple of days earlier, and knew there was something going on there. It didn't take a genius, or a conspiracy. The clues have been there for years. We've been fooling ourselves, but that's no longer possible.

"...unless you'd like to surmise that the killer was studying Hebrew and was an Axel Rose fan."

Oh-my-gosh, Foehammer, I love you!

Stephan,

No one here is delighting in the deaths of anyone. For your information, we are trying to prevent this from ever happening again. We who post here on a regular basis have been watching these tragedies unfold, like clockwork and persistently for several years now. The authorities wring their hands and wonder why this is happening, our fearless leaders continue to let people into our countries that have no respect for our laws, lives or our culture and we as a group are trying to do something about it. How dare you twist this around with your psycho-babble. We're the folks who do most of the living, dying and tax paying around here and it's not too much to ask to be able to protect our way of life from groups who have a) told us they want our land, b) told us they plan to force us to accept their beliefs, c) have told us they will kill us to achieve their goals. Since they give us proof of their resolve every day around the world and in the manner that this latest crime was perpetrated it is not unreasonable to consider the possibility that a Muslim was involved in the VT attack.

While your condescension appears to be quite elegant the thing that is sad here is that you are like so many people who would rather stick their head up their ass than take any preventative measures to ensure the safety of our country and our citizens. And while you are congratulating yourself on the wisdom you have provided to all of us dummies here, remember that these people who want our country appreciate useful idiots who give aid and succour to our enemies and who will also be the first people they get rid of once their goals are achieved.

Isabella,

I am an American as well. I fail to see how blaming every shooting on Muslims, until the facts come out, helps you protect anything.

I remember the Oklahoma bombing when it happened and everyone thought it was done by Muslims. There are still some "truthers" out there that claim this still is the case.

When you want to "lynch" certain people or groups before the truth comes out you actually do your own stated cause harm.

I have come here and been pretty even handed, yet already I am being called names and attacked. Why? Because I think it is wise until we have even the smallest amount of facts in before we jump to conclusions?

It would seem here that there are some who are on the opposite end of the far left "truthers". They are the far right "truthers" who no matter what the police, government and law enforcement say they will stiull blame it on their target of choice.

This is in no way different than the idiots who say Bush planned 9/11. They will turn out to stain and discredit anything you say.

If you wanted to disarm a population for an even bigger future slaughter a massacre would be a good place to start. Right out of the red playbook. Just as in the past, you want to cause trouble or start a riot during a strike, sneak over to the other side and attack the side you came over from. Simple as 123. Not really much difference between that and a bomber/poster who sneaks in among you posing as one of you and then detonates its self.

Foehammer - leaping to the immediate conclusion the killer was muslim because details haven't yet been released is NOT detective work or conjecture. It is however naive at best and predictably boring at worst.

I'm not an apologist or an antagonist, and my head is most definitely not up my arse. If you want to test my knowledge/credentials feel free (though I'm not sure why you would want to). I just don't see how giving ammunition to the JihadWatch enemies makes us any more credible.

If you re-read my post I say there is still room for facts to come out that the shooter was a convert or born a muslim. If that is so then the consequences of this massacre will be felt for years and I, as a Christian, do not particularly welcome rioting based on the acts of one person (that we know of yet).

Infidel Pride --

Yeah -- it wasn't an easy decision to call the cops on my bro, but it was the right decision given his behavior/situation; and everyone that knew what kind of threats he was making and the crazy stuff he was doing all agreed that it was the ONLY thing to do because he refused to see the problem and to stop making the threats.

My brother made no mention of running into Mohammadens while in jail, but he did say that several guys taught him "how to scam" your own family member. Jeez -- you can bet I've been on my toes after hearing that.

==================================================

The young man who committed this horrible crime at Virginia Tech was considered a "loner" and that he had written some disturbing things in his creative writing class that his teacher picked up on and apparently reported to the counseling office. Sadly, no action was taken over these red flags.

Green said

The truth will eventually become clear.

Not necessarily. Several months ago in San Francisco a jihadist used his SUV to run over many pedestrians, and when captured by police, he claimed he was a jihadist. That unimportant tidbit was never covered by the mainstream media, it only appeared in a couple of local news outlets.

We may eventually find out the truth, by scouring all the local news outlets for the accidental release of such "dangerously irrelevant" information, but the general public may never hear the full story.

Stefan,

You haven't studied any of this, have you? Have you seen any lynchings by Americans in 2007? No, because we don't live like that. We don't shoot first and ask questions later. What we do here is discuss problems and search for solutions.

To come to the conclusion that a Muslim may be involved is not unreasonable in light of what Muslims themselves tell us they have planned for us, what Muslims have done in our country in only the past year, and in the m.o. that Muslims follow, namely, killing people they don't know, for reasons most Americans don't understand and then claiming that Allah told them to do it via the Koran.

There may be a lot more in that note than you will understand as a pracitioner of P.C. tolerance and understanding. These people who are sworn to take over our lands for Allah love people who are understanding and tolerant; they'll use you up in their quest to make the entire world submit to Sharia law and then they'll use Sharia law against you to create and hold their power. And they are nasty bastards, so don't expect any compassion or mercy.

It's time for you to get educated, my friend. Your very survival depends on it.

Why would he have Ishmael AX on his arm?

Will Bush declare the shooter, the Student of Peace?

Liviu Librescu,
"Librescu ran to the door of his classroom and blocked it with his body preventing the gunman from entering but getting shot to death himself as a result."
“Before I jumped from the window, I turned around and looked at the professor, who stayed behind, maybe to block the door. He had been killed.”
Liviu Librescu holocaust survivor, great American. Put his name down in our history books with all the other great Americans of varying backgrounds.
Lesson, you help save someone’s life and you may same many others in the process. He may be a citizen of Israel but he went down in America, he gave his life for his friends and students in the USA.
Can anyone say Presidential Medal of Freedom?

A partial list of deceased victims:

# Ross Abdallah Alameddine, 20, of Saugus, Mass., according to his mother, Lynnette Alameddine.

# Jamie Bishop
Instructor, Foreign Languages and Literatures (German)

# Ryan Clark, 22, of Martinez, Ga., biology and English major, according to Columbia County Coroner Vernon Collins.

# Kevin Granata, age unknown, engineering science and mechanics professor, according to Puri.

# Caitlin Hammaren, 19, of Westtown, N.Y., a sophomore majoring in international studies and French, according to Minisink Valley, N.Y., school officials who spoke with Hammaren's family.

# Emily Jane Hilscher, a 19-year-old freshman from Woodville, according to Rappahannock County Administrator John McCarthy, a family friend.

# Jarrett Lane, a senior.

# Matt La Porte, a first-year student.

# Henry Lee, computer engineering.

# Liviu Librescu, 76, engineering science and mathematics lecturer, according to Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

# G.V. Loganathan, 51, civil and environmental engineering professor, according to his brother G.V. Palanivel.

# Juan Ramon Ortiz, a 26-year-old graduate student in engineering from Bayamon, Puerto Rico, according to his wife, Liselle Vega Cortes.

# Dr. Daniel Perez (Dr. Daniel Perez is considered one of the nation’s leading experts in avian influenza H5N1)

# Mary Karen Read, 19, was born in South Korea into an Air Force family and lived in Texas and California before settling in Annandale, Va., according to her aunt, Karen Kuppinger.

# Rema Samaha, a graduate of Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., according to her family.

# Leslie Sherman, a second-year student.

# Maxine Turner, senior in chemical engineering.

It is believed Hilscher and Clark were the first two students to be killed, in a shooting at one of the school dormitories two hours before dozens of others were gunned down at the opposite end of the sprawling campus.

Prayers go out to the family and friends of each victim. Rest in peace.

Assalamau Laikum all,

I think the Amerike takes a peoples during different ages to blame. Look at your track record....

red indian
german
japanese
korean

and now muslim

WaPo says

English Major of Peace did the shooting?

quote

Centreville Student Was Va. Tech Shooter

By Debbi Wilgoren and Howard Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, April 17, 2007; 1:28 PM

A 23-year-old English major from Centreville was the gunman who killed 32 people and then himself on the Virginia Tech campus yesterday -- the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, university and law enforcement officials said.

Cho Seung Hui was a South Korean native who immigrated to this country as a child, officials said. His lifeless body was found in Norris Hall, a classroom building, among those of several other slain students, Virginia state police superintendent Col. Steve Flaherty said. Cho, a senior, had apparently taken his own life. Cho graduated in 2003 from Westfield High School in Fairfax.

end quote

Centreville Student Was Va. Tech Shooter

Comment Thread at WaPo

I think the Amerike takes a peoples during different ages to blame. Look at your track record....

red indian
german
japanese
korean

and now muslim
Posted by: Naseem

Just out of the blue, no rhyme nor reason eh, Naseem?

Unusaul, I think not. The Rapid City, public schools are in lockdown right now after a gunman was spotted on campus...
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/04/17/news/top/news00k_school_lockdown.txt#blogcomments

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

I'm not advocating we start making premature conclusions, but considering all the facts and the nature of this incident, all avenues of influence on the perpetrator must be investigated.

I will pray for the victims, and the perp.

oops, try www.rapidcityjournal.com

While I am on the subject, the "red indians" as you "very peaceful moslems" call them (and we all know what would have happened to the Indians if islam had made an appearance in N.America, so save your accusatory BS) attacked the pioneers so the pioneers fought back. The settlers were better fighters, that's the way it goes....to the victor go the spoils.

Prayers for those who died yesterday at VT in this slaugther and the families.

PRAYER IN SORROW

God of all consolation,
in your unending love and mercy for us,
you turn the darkness of death into the dawn of new life.
Show compassion to your people in sorrow.
Be our refuge and our strength to lift us
from the darkness of this grief
to peace and joy in your presence.
We ask this through Christ, our Lord.Amen

THE DIVINE SHEPHERD

PSALM 23

The Lord is my Shepherd,
I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures;

He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in right paths
For His Name's sake.

Even though I walk through the darkest valley,
I fear no evil;
For you are with me;
Your rod and Your staff - they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies,
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup overflows.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
All the days of my life.
And I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
My whole life long.

[Psalm 23:1-6; NRSV]

A Moment Of Silent Prayer/Eternel Rest

PRAYER FOR THE DEAD # 3

Eternal rest, grant unto them, O Lord,
and let perpetual light shine upon them.
May the souls of the faithful departed
through the mercy of God rest in peace.

Amen.

THE LITANY OF
THE GOOD SHEPHERD
(For private use only.)

God the Father of the Lamb,
have mercy on us.

God the Son, Sacrificial Lamb,
have mercy on us.

God the Holy Spirit, Life of the Lamb,
have mercy on us.

O Good Jesus, Shepherd of the just,
hear us.

Vigilant Finder of lost sheep,
guide us.

Fervent Hope of the fallen lamb,
guide us.

Constant Gatherer of a broken flock,
guide us.

O Good Shepherd,
hear Thy sheep.

Purest shelter of the yearning heart,
feed us.

Perpetual Feast of the hungry soul,
feed us.

Lasting Bread of perfect Life,
feed us.

O Good Shepherd,
hear Thy sheep.

Patient Tamer of rebellious wills,
shear us.

Loyal Teacher of all kind commands,
shear us.

Tender Purger of all blemish of sin,
shear us.

O Good Shepherd,
hear Thy sheep.

From the lures of false shepherds hiding in Thy guise,
protect us.

From mirages of richer fields, conquering our minds,
protect us.

From diseases of the soul, separating us from Thy flock,
protect us.

O Good Shepherd, at once the Guard and Lamb,
Who knows well the sheep He leads,
Guide us, feed us, shear us,
and bid us come unto Thee,
delighting in Thy Heavenly pasture,
and praising Thee
forever and ever.

Amen.

Isabella,

Yes, I am rather educated on the subject, having traveled the Middle East off and on for the last 15 years. I even happen to speak Arabic. Your credentials are?

If you were perceptive you'd notice that I put the word "lynch" in quotes. Why? Because you lot reminded me of the old west shows where everyone got an idea into their heads and formed up a posse and went looking for someone to attack. That is exactly what has taken place here.

You can talk about what you think is the case, however, statistics show that the perpetrator of a gun related mass murder in a school setting in the USA is going to be a white juvenile. In the work place statistics show that such an attack will most likely be committed by a white adult. Do you have any statistics that prove any different? On a percentage scale, how many gun related mass murders in the USA have been conducted by Muslims of any race?

So, statistically, you are dead wrong. As to being a "practitioner of PC tolerance and understanding", I find it amazing the assumptions you can make based on a few posts. I am hardly PC about anything. I am, however, logical about everything. This is exactly what I am talking about, you take a few words and into that you read your worst fears and assumptions and start casting out names and insults.

You might think you are helping the situation, any situation, but you are so wrong. It is actions like these that make the middle of the road Americans ignore you. The American who is sitting on the fence and doesn't know what to think about the situation will see quick, and wrong, assumptions made by people like you and it will cause them to completely disregard anything else you are saying.

In your response to this situation you sound little different than a shrieking Al Sharpton looking to lash out at anyone he can. Look how he jumped on the Tawana Brawley issue and then look at what happened there. You have done the same thing here and shot yourself in the foot. You do your cause no good.

After the Tawana Brawley incident Sharption was proved to have no credibility. Not only did he jump into the issue with no facts, he later refused to apologise. That is exactly what you are doing here. You were wrong in this situation and you jumped to conclusions. When proved that you were wrong you refused to accept it and continued to push the line that had already proven to have been false.

Game, set, match.

PS, although it has not been released yet, Rema Samaha was a Lebenese Christian lady.

"I want the politicians who won't protect our country fired. And just like Brigitte Gabriel says to do. I'm going to get the attention of these lawmakers with faxes, phone calls and e-mails from everybody I know, letting them know that, no, we will not give up our guns and no, we will not tolerate anymore nonsense from people who are here on student visas."

Isabella,

The people you need to persuade are your fellow citizens who insist on returning these traitors to office every election year. Why do they do it? They like their government programs and they figure terrorism is someone else's problem.

By all means contact your representatives but if the people in your state/district insist on returning them to office your efforts serve only to vent your frustration.

The perfect example (not entirely OT) is illegal immigration. The people want it stopped. We want our borders monitored. We want those in this country illegally to be sent home. (Yeah I know it's not practical but there is no reason to give them a path to citizenship, either.) Despite this, the people of Massachusetts reelected one of the architects of the plan - Ted Kennedy. The president is planning on putting together a sufficient coalition of Democrats and Republicans to create yet another guest worker plan, despite the overwhelming opposition of the people. The problem is we won't back up our views with a vote. It's the same with the terrorism problem. It's not PC and so people are afraid to touch it.

From Wikipedia "Ishmael - Translated as "God will hear", was Abraham's eldest son. Judaism has generally viewed Ishmael as wicked though repentant. Islamic tradition, however, has a very positive view of Ishmael, ascribing a larger role to Ishmael in comparison to the Bible and viewing him as a prophet and the son of sacrifice. Both Jewish and Islamic traditions consider Ishmael as the ancestor of Arab people."

Relevant? Maybe so, maybe not . . .

"Ismail is also a character from Islam - the Muslim version of Abraham (Ibrahim ... Ismail's axe has swung - and it will swing again, and again, and again. ..."

Comments from the first link on Google when searching "Ismail Axe". Again, not trying to make presumptions; just pointing to a possibility he might have converted to Islam. This has yet to be determined.

Stefan wrote:

At least one victim was a Muslim. "Ross Abd'Allah Alameddine" .

This is irrelevant, as Muslims have been killing and murdering fellow Muslims (cf. the hundreds of suicide bombings in Iraq over the past few years mostly targeting fellow Iraqis, not Coalition soldiers) in the pursuit of their various jihads.

Bin Laden justified the deaths of Muslims as collateral damage in the Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings of the late 90s.

http://www.islamistwatch.org/blogger/localstories/05-06-03/ABCInterview.html

I see this as typical human nature and an endless desire to say "I told you so". No matter if your a JW'er or a Muslim apologist those words offer such conquest. The truth is not all murderers are Muslims. Likewise not all Muslims are murders. Many of us know the nature of the teachings of the great Muhammad and can rest assured it will grant an abundance of opportunities to utter these great words. In fact, just today presented several violent atrocities in the name of Allah.
Very strange story indeed. But I think the Cops, Feds and Media are working to cover their mistakes in this case not the identity of the accused. They F@#kd up big time on this one and the shit's going to hit the fan for weeks and longer. This massacre was a likely just another heinous blood drenched anomaly. Not the ongoing heinous blood drenched Islamofacist world domination jihad I've come here to study. I'm not going to sit here and hope that somehow they will tie this punk to Islam. I've got better things to do.

And so do you Foehammer. I'm anxious to see that map.

Chicago Tribune, IL - 1 hour ago
... note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances and died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. ...

The son of Abraham, Ishmael is known as Ismail in Arabic.

Islamic traditions consider Ishmael [Ismail] as the ancestor of Arab people.

The shooter had the words "Ismail Ax" written on his arm. I searched google for these keywords and discovered:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/ibrahim.htm

Could the shooter (Cho Seung-Hui) have viewed himself as either Ibrahim or Ismail in the text below?

"During one night, Ibrahim had a dream. He came to Ismail and said: "O my son ! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you as a sacrifice to Allah, so what do you think?" They both realized that this was an order from Allah. Ismail said without hesitation: "Do what you are commanded, you shall find me very patient insha Allah." They had both submitted to the will of Allah. Ibrahim laid his son prostrate, put his forehead on the ground and directed a sharp knife towards his neck. At this very moment, Allah called him: "O Ibrahim! You have fulfilled the dream! Thus do We reward the good doers !" A big sheep was sent down from heaven to be slaughtered instead of Ismail, which Ibrahim did, and they both had a big celebration that day. This event is celebrated every year by all Muslims. It is Eid al-Adha where we slaughter the sacrificial sheep."

Stefan and turner are right about some of us (not all of us). It seems we have forgotten that there are psychos who are not Muslim and shoot people for reasons other than that wretched religion Islam. I think this discussion should be closed now. The Korean fellow who did this is just a psycho. Any speculation on Ismail X or whatever bullshit some people are posting is just that, speculation.

Once again I repeat: this guy was just a crazy psycho, and not because of Islam. Case closed.

It's starting to look more and more a case of Sudden Jihad Syndrome...

In the Jewish and Christian traditions, the son is Isaac, father of the Jewish people; in Islam, it is his brother, Ismail (Ishmael in Hebrew).
Abraham uses a knife in most versions of the story, but some accounts have him wielding an ax.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007/news/nationalnews/va__tech_killer_revealed_nationalnews_.htm

Wrathofasma - I take offense. They are not right about me, and I have not forgotten that there are psychos out there other than those who kill in the name of Islam. You know that this guy was "just a psycho". How wonderful for you to be all-knowing. I merely posted something that I found regarding Ismail (Ishmael). I neither said that it meant that this person was a Muslim, nor that it didn't. Please don't call my posts "bullsh*t". Notice that I didn't post anything here at all (read the over 300 posts to this item) until I knew who the person was. I didn't speculate on anything prior to knowing who he was.

I rarely post, and this is why.

Game set and match, case closed, really, what arrogance, I never said he was a Muslim, but it is not confirmed at this point for me that he is definately not one.

Case is not closed yet, even if it is likely that he is not a Muslim.

1) the mass murderer had the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms

2) The son of Abraham, Ishmael is known as "Ismail" in Arabic.

3) Islamic traditions consider Ishmael [Ismail] as the ancestor of Arab people.

4)

Islamic legend of Ibrahim (Abraham), father of Ismail (Ishmael):

“I am sick of your gods!” declared Abraham. “Truly I am their enemy.”

When the people had gone out, Abraham took some of the food and held it up to the idols. “Why don’t you eat?” he mocked them. “Aren’t you hungry? Speak to me!” And he slapped their faces.

Then Abraham took an ax and chopped the idols to pieces...

[cf. Koran 21:58; the part about Abraham using an "ax" probably derives from one or more of the works of Ibn Ishaq, Tabari, Thalabi, and Kisai, as they amplified the Koran]

http://www.aaronshep.com/stories/035.html

from confused wrathofasma:

Any speculation on Ismail X or whatever bullshit some people are posting is just that, speculation.

any speculation on subject X is speculation, yep hard to argue with that

but I would say 'bullshit on X' is really just that: bullshit.

but then this

Once again I repeat: this guy was just a crazy psycho, and not because of Islam. Case closed.

now, unless wrathofasma you are Hui's shrink, and even then, I would suggest you yourself are speculating.

so wrathofasma, you are truly full of BS

I don't give a rat's a** what folks think.

"Cho Seung-Hui, 23, spent his time barely uttering a word and working on his computer, his Virginia Tech University roommate said in an interview with the Toronto Star today."

Bet it's a cold day in hell before we get to know the websites he was visiting on his computer. We MUST call him a loner or disturbed, etc....but we must NEVER suggest that he may have been influenced by an evil religion. BITE ME. He was on a rampage a PLANNED rampage. He was skilled with the weapons. He chained doors to keep people trapped and help out. Sounds like terrorism to me.

What the hell was it with Ismail AX? Someone said that Ismail was the Arab way of spelling Ishmael. Is this correct? Why have an arab spelling of a biblical character on your arm???? If he wasn't a convert openly, who is to say he wasn't influenced privately?

Lastly...

Cho's family lived in a two-story townhouse in Centreville, where neighbor ABDUL SHASH said the gunman played basketball and wouldn't respond if someone greeted him.

He was "very quiet, always by himself," said Shash.

I'd be checking this Abdul out.

For full story...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007/news/nationalnews/va__tech_killer_revealed_nationalnews_.htm

So as I said, I don't give a rat's a** what folks think of me. We may never get the full story - if the government is determined to stop us from knowing that this was planned terrorism.

stefan wrote:
"Yes, I am rather educated on the subject, having traveled the Middle East off and on for the last 15 years. I even happen to speak Arabic."

I fail to understand how speaking Arabic and traveling to the Middle East distinguishes you in any way.

stefan also wrote:
"On a percentage scale, how many gun related mass murders in the USA have been conducted by Muslims of any race?"

This is a disingenuous and ludicrous use of statistics to attempt to validate a point. Being that the US religious demographics put Muslims hovering around 1/2 of 1%, comparative to Christians at just about 80%, it is hardly a conspicuous fact that Muslim gun violence is much, much lower, percentage-wise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

stefan wrote:
"After the Tawana Brawley incident Sharption was proved to have no credibility."

And a lot of good that fact did in Don Imus' defense. But that is a completely different topic anyway.

Stefan,

You made some valid points. Lingering on an issue that, until proven otherwise, cannot and should not be correlated, only detracts from the vital importance of this site, and it's mainly pedagogical purpose regarding the ideology of Islam.

This is from" Whatreallyhappened.com"

Blaming Charlton Heston
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,477686,00.html

With a view to Monday's deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, European newspapers are blaming the lack of gun control measures in the United States and implying that Charlton Heston is indirectly responsible for the scope of the killings.

Rivero: Attention idiot Europeans. There WAS one of your precious gun bans in effect. That is why nobody was able to stop the slaughter.

-----------

Gun Control's Twisted Outcome
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.

Rivero: The Virginia Tech gun ban allowed the killer to keep killing, unapposed. Contrast yesterday's mayhem with the 2002 shooting incident at the Appalachian School of Law which ended when a student with a legally owned firearm stopped the attack.

Gun ban = more deaths.

Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens - fewer deaths.

Anti-gun = pro=crime.

--------------

I love it!

well, I'm going to go on that crowede limb.

People, don't you all jump on Naseem. That person was right, you know.

The assassin was NOT from that part of the world.(You know which part, I mean)

Leave it well, alone.

Fact; VA Tech students all have laptops. source FoxNews Hence the e-mails.
Fact; the Muslim Student Association for Va Tech has no postings to the comments that are newer than 9/13/2004. For a Tecnoligcal University this seems odd. They do have a volunteer call for March 20.

P.S. Europeans are screwed because they have no protection from islamic nutters. They can't expect their government to protect them and their lefty-libs march with islamists in London every chance they get.

It's only a matter of time until Europeans are all wearing sheets.

As for us....we will continue to have weapons and the right to protect ourselves and our property. We will keep the means to fight against islamic nutters.

An armed society is a polite society. Robert A. Heinlein

I normally don't comment on other postings, but there are some people here that need a reality check.

Maybe some did jump the gun on th ID of the shooter. But if a group of people openly claim they want to kill, and then it actually happens is it wrong to suspect that group initially? Maybe there is more to this than we are being told, and maybe there isn't. Time will tell.

Fact Check: The movie The Two Towers was named after a book published in the 1950s, before there was any concept of a World Trade Center. It was written by an author who had never even been to America. Not to retell the story, but it is never totally cler which two towers were being reffered to, but none of them were next to each other like the World Trade Center. Over a billion people have read The Lord of the Rings, you should be more familiar with it.

History Lesson: Japan and Germany declared war on America, and Japan attacked America first, contrary to conspiracy theorists and revisionists. As for Korea, the United States was part of a UN effort that included England, Turkey and others on behalf of South Korea against an invasion by North Korea and later China.

Spelling Lesson: it is spelled A-M-E-R-I-C-A. There is no K.

Trivia: Anyone but a birdbrain or a dhimmi knows that Kaffir is an insulting term, the same as infidel. Speaking of the children of kaffirs is mocking them.

Auntbea that IS strange.

"Lesson, you help save someone’s life and you may same many others in the process. He may be a citizen of Israel but he went down in America, he gave his life for his friends and students in the USA.
Can anyone say Presidential Medal of Freedom?"

----------------
What's so important about Bush happening to make a decision to give that medal?

Who cares about Bush's opinion?

The man already has a Higher Reward Elsewhere.

I'm going to take a break and play video games. Notice that I do not have a compulsion to slaughter real people from all my years of watching pixels fight on a video monitor.

Gosh!

So, if the authorities can not blame Doom this time, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to blame "depression" or "loneliness" or "puppy love". Funny thing about all those excuses though -- there isn't a human being alive that doesn't experience any of those things, and yet 99.99% of us don't come to the conclusion that today is a good day to die and kill lots of people.

However, we do know what does foment those ideas, don't we?

I never jump to conclusions, but don't ever try to tell me not to think. I have a big mouth and a bigger brain, and until I see more raw honesty coming from our "leaders", I'm going to continue to rail, rant, and be down-right cantankerous.

And if I ever get a seat in Congress, I might even browbeat a few people into submission, too.

By definition terrorism is done to "achieve political, religious or ideological objectives", which has yet to be determined in connection with this heinous crime at VT.

Having said that....

This was definitely an act of terrorism, because he terrorized an entire college/community/country; and maybe we need to redefine it's meaning by broadening it's definition.

He doesn’t need to be from any part of the world there are millions of America haters among us posting kill Americans rhetoric on leftist sites and TV shows even as I write this. This guy learned to hate America right here from some of our slimiest citizens. And they are doing it again right now so get ready for more of these types of incidents in the future. Forget about the apologists, they are exposing themselves for what they are and now they will be forced to change their usernames to go back into hiding among us. Just write their names down for future reference.

Islamic legend of Ibrahim (Abraham), father of Ismail (Ishmael):

“I am sick of your gods!” declared Abraham. “Truly I am their enemy.”

When the people had gone out, Abraham took some of the food and held it up to the idols. “Why don’t you eat?” he mocked them. “Aren’t you hungry? Speak to me!” And he slapped their faces.

Then Abraham took an ax and chopped the idols to pieces...

[cf. Koran 21:58; the part about Abraham using an "ax" probably derives from one or more of the works of Ibn Ishaq, Tabari, Thalabi, and Kisai, as they amplified the Koran]

http://www.aaronshep.com/stories/035.html

---------------

NONSENSE!

That was lack of respect and provocation for other people.

IT REALLY WAS THEIR OWN BUSINESS WHO THEY F***G HELL WANT TO WORSHIP.

Abraham had NO right to do that!

BTW,why don't we do it with the statues all over the christian churches?

Now, what do you think the statues are there for?

Accourding to Fox news below..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266523,00.html

They too have the ISMAIL AX in red ink story now.

This is not over yet. It is never over. Why do this unless you have studied something about Islam? Where did he get this info etc? Was it just for sake of knowledge or something else?

Many questions must now be asked and answered!

This thread is not dead!!!!!!

Its alive! Its alive!

:)

Balrog,

You misunderstood, I know the book very well, first read it at the age of 8 and numerous times since.

I think that asking for the name of the film to be changed was stupid, like people saying we could not speculate over the motives of the killer as it was not showing respect to the victims, which is just as stupid.

"The settlers were better fighters, that's the way it goes....to the victor go the spoils."

Watch out and very very careful what you say. It could also apply to other conquerors.

And we certainly NOT want that.

Anyway, the Americas belonged to the Indigeous Peoples.

They didn't like that, and we wouldn't like others coming here - NOW - to take over. Would we?

We would fight tooth and nail, eh?

http://historymike.blogspot.com/

That's it.

FOEHAMMER!!! Get to work on that map and stop playing those damn video games.

There is one aspect of this case which begs for a bit more gun regulation. The shooter was NOT a U.S. citizen. And yet last month he legally purchased both guns used in this heinous murder spree.

How about waiting until someone is a U.S. Citizen before bestowing a critical constitutional right like this?!!

I agree with posters saying that VT's firearms ban enabled the shooter to go about his deadly business free of any concern of being met with equal or greater force.

Another point: It's not clear that the gunman chained the doors shut in the engineering bldg where he did most of his killing.

Another point, it turns out that the VT administration, or at least powers-that-be in the English department, knew about very disturbed writings that the shooter had submitted in class. Disturbing enough that he was referred to university mental health services. Did he go? What did the evaluation reveal? Was any further monitoring done? Follow-up? Risk assessment?

VT is not coming out very well in all of this.

Of course the ultimate responsibility is the killer's alone.

Last point: Will we get to see this killer's disturbed writings, and especially the suicide/murder note, the way we see most every other notorious killer's ramblings (like Son of Sam, BTK, Zodiac, etc.), or will they be held back?

Only FULL DISCLOSURE can prevent more speculation and conspiracy theories if there is something more to his motivations that thus far revealed.

Balrog wrote:
Fact Check: The movie The Two Towers was named after a book published in the 1950s, before there was any concept of a World Trade Center. It was written by an author who had never even been to America. Not to retell the story, but it is never totally cler which two towers were being reffered to, but none of them were next to each other like the World Trade Center.

The "Two Towers", referred to by Tolkien, the first being Barad Dur, was that of The Lord of the Rings himself, Sauron. The second was Orthanc, under the control of the fallen wizard, Saruman.

The LotR, incidentilly, was escapist fantasy fiction, loosely based on WWII. To those of you who have seen the exceptional movies before reading the excellent book trilogy, I offer my condolences.

according to this site

The Sacrifice Of Abraham: Isaac or Ishmael?

However, Jews and Christians say that the sacrificed was Isaac(p) -"Abraham's only son", whereas according to the Islamic tradition the sacrificed is Ishmael(P).

just trivia at this point but the latter of Hui apparently said: 'you made me do it'

'you' may not be a person being referred to.

"Anyway, the Americas belonged to the Indigenous Peoples."

That line of reasoning is such a crock of bs, there are no "Indigenous Peoples" to the Americas...there was no separate creation of "natives" here. The first people here "migrated" [just another word for immigrated] probably from either Europe or Asia, argue all you want about that one...doesn't matter...which ever side wins still proves my point that us European descendants are no different than the ancient travelers that preceded us. The "natives" were warring over territory before 1600-1700 Euros arrived in mass, and nothing really changed after.

If this psycho South Korean was here legally, then he had a right to be here for education, just like any previous European.

Whole other issue besides him giving himself over to the darkside...just like jihadees do.

We would fight tooth and nail, eh?

Of course we would. I'm trying my best to wake a few people up to the fact that we are being infiltrated.
We had better stop all the immigration from countries that foster terrorism. Stop them before they reach critical mass.

as i said last night, i think the main point now is that this serves as a terrible warning.
following the FBI/DHS warnings of attacks on schools, security should have been high at all US educational establishments.
if this attack had been carried out by an organised terror squad with automatic weapons and explosives, instead of one loser with 2 handguns, the deathtoll would have been in hundreds.
if the authorities do not learn major lessons from this then there will be a terrible price to pay, because you can bet that the terrorists will be looking at this attack with great interest.

"That line of reasoning is such a crock of bs, there are no "Indigenous Peoples" to the Americas...there was no separate creation of "natives" here. The first people here "migrated" [just another word for immigrated] probably from either Europe or Asia, "

So is this your little excuse for taking over their land and kicking the Tribals into concentration camps?

"Quitate tu pa' ponerme yo!

(Get Out - so I can take over!)

I'm very much afriad that attitude will give an opening to any conqueror here.

After all, it will be legally justified. We've only been here for 200+ years.

Why don't we just admit that we did wrong to others. and go on from there?

Try to do better?

Another thought about conquering and being conquered, we had better get as tough as those who gave rise to the United States of America. I'm afraid we have too many people who "feel" that we are just too mean (puke), if the explorers had listened to that tripe we would have never progressed at all, why we might still be living in the 7th century.

"I'm trying my best to wake a few people up to the fact that we are being infiltrated.
We had better stop all the immigration from countries that foster terrorism. Stop them before they reach critical mass."

Actualy, we're NOT beinng infitratrated, the government is openlly allowing, accepting immigration LEGALLY!

It ain't just the Mexs,it a whole batch of Iraqis, and Turks (7,000), and Palestinians, and Lebanese - all LEGAL.

All indiscriminate.

And it all doesn't make sense - 'cause on one hand there's the insidous Home Sec. (TAP) and what for anyway - then there's allowance of Islamics.

Middle Eastern people, esp. men, btw, tend to look very much like Latinos. As you can see by the tragedy of the Brazilian de Menezes that was murdered in cold blood by the "pigs" in London.

With never an acknowledgement or a sorry apology. I'm I "hot" about it. Yeah!

It is worrisome. If there is civil uprising comings, I certainly don't want out of control Americanos - civilians or cops to shoot a Latino first and ask questions later.

OooH sorry there allat, the answer is, 'what are native Americans'. "OK Alex, I'll take 'who was here first for 500"...

My family came here from England in 1635. They came by sailboat, so by your reasoning, paddle trumps sail? The USA was not the USA then, so can that make me 'Native'?

"I'm afraid we have too many people who "feel" that we are just too mean (puke), if the explorers had listened to that tripe we would have never progressed at all, why we might still be living in the 7th century."

Oh, stop it! It is the European that was devolved, NOT the Tribals.

7th century. Don't come up with that and compare it with 7th century islam.

As an example, there wre a lot of women Caciquas and Chieftanesses. Women were members of Councils. There were women Shamans.

It wasn't Paradise, but there certainly was a great deal more freedom among the Indigenous here, than among European society.

Don't compare Tribals with the slime Islamics!

"OooH sorry there allat, the answer is, 'what are native Americans'. "OK Alex, I'll take 'who was here first for 500"...

My family came here from England in 1635. They came by sailboat, so by your reasoning, paddle trumps sail?"

OOOOHHH! We're going on?

There were certainly pros and cons.

But we can go to the basic necessity?

At the time of the Discovery of the Americas, Europeans had the habit of throwing their human waste into the streets? The reason everyone drank ale and wine, is because the water supply was already polluted in Europe.

So they came here and started doing the same thing - without let up - do this day. So that this lack of respect for water and Earth - this attitude still prevalent today, is what has us in this mess today.

Ya oughtta see the mountains of Landfills today. NOT a pretty sight. But people don't want to know or hear about that.

I can go on.

We have all conquered and been conquered at some time in the eons of time. We as the human family have lived all over this relatively small planet. It is like musical chairs. I am so tired of hearing how wonderful American Indians were. They were people, just human beings with the same failings as every other human being.
I have American Indians in my own background (Huron), but I have no illusion that they were some kind of special , closer to the Creator, island of humanity.

allat,

"We've only been here for 200+ years."

Try more like 400.

"Why don't we just admit that we did wrong to others. and go on from there? Try to do better?"

That's exactly what America has been doing, overwhelmingly, socially, culturally, ethically, legally and politically -- including profound airing of our dirty laundry of history, with thousands of college classes, books, articles, TV specials and movies over the past few decades investigating (and often excessively so) all our historical wrongs.

I doubt that, had Europeans never colonized the Americas, the Indians would have progressed as spectacularly as we have over these past 400 years.

In world history, there is not an inch of inhabited territory on Earth that has not been taken from others at some point -- indeed, most often taken several times by successive peoples. This includes lands throughout the Americas that for centuries had been taken and re-taken by various Indian tribes from other Indian tribes, usually through violence.

The point is not to blame the taking, but to assess which of the takers have progressed and gotten better and have benefited others, as the West has far more than any other civilization in history.

Foehammer said

unless you'd like to surmise that the killer was studying Hebrew and was an Axel Rose fan.

According to Cho's play titled "Mr. Brownstone", he is a Guns n' Roses fan. He named his play after their song "Mr. Brownstone". Bizarre. Don't know that "Ismail Ax" refers to Axl Rose though.

Thanks for the link SG. I've now read Seung Cho's two literary masterpieces, "Richard McBeef" and "Mr. Brownstone."

Which begs the question: Notwithstanding how disturbed his writing is, How On Earth did Seung Cho ever make it so far as a Senior year majoring in English?

alexon, I'm with you on that. The plays have the sophisticated humor of "Beavis and Butthead", the erotic maturity of Howard Stern, and the violence of the hadiths.

BTW,why don't we do it with the statues all over the christian churches?

Now, what do you think the statues are there for?

Posted by: allat

Allat, some assemblies of believers in Christ do not believe in statues and some do not believe in having so-called pictures of Jesus in their sunday school classrooms.

This is from an article on the Fox News website this morning.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

"A law enforcement official who read Cho's note described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

"You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying.

Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said."

I think the authorities need a new scripted comment besides the same lame one used hundreds of times, to keep the masses from doing what the authorites should be all along:

"no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack"

they wonder why it causes suspicion, too...lol
People are increasingly hearing it as the same old same old "blah...blah...blah" as if coming out of the mouth of Charlie Browns teacher.

...especially after noticing this...

http://www.savage-productions.com/cho_envelope.html
Notice what the return address name is...
like I said before...makes ya wonder.