Women who repeatedly violate dress code may be banned from Tehran for up to 5 years

Those women who appear in public like decadent models endanger the security and dignity of young men,’ prosecutor Saeed Mortazavi was quoted as saying by the Etemad newspaper.

What about the dignity of old men? What about thier security? Old men need love too, Saeed. Oh well, what does he know of love. Allah never taught him.

This article and the photo below sadden me beyond belief. That disgusting woman police in the picture really disgusts me. You know my dear friends in West? You most probably have never seen such evil creatures around you! I have been arrested by them twice and checked and "guided" by them many times in the streets of Tehran. Most young Iranians have had a taste of them! They radiate sadism and hatred towards you when they approach you and they all have this common characteristic: They stink because Muslim fanatics very rarely take a shower and never use deodorant, so this also adds to the nauseating quality of their presence! When they touch and handle you (like you can see in the photo) a disgusting vibe takes over your body. You feel violated and raped! You feel you are dealing with a wild animal instead of a human being. These people are just sadists who have found a legal outlet for their sickness! They can act out with impunity and even get rewarded for it.

Since the advent of so-called "reformists" on the Iranian political scene women have tried their best to push the boundaries as much as possible. So a less "Islamic" dress code evolved gradually. Every summer the length of the coats became a bit shorter and they became a bit tighter and the head scarves went further and further away from their forehead and more and more hair started to show. This of course infuriates the Islamist who think they are made fun of in this way.

But what strikes me as the most disgusting thing in this article is Mortazavi's statement: "Those women who appear in public like decadent models endanger the security and dignity of young men,"!! This is very typical of Muslim chauvinist mentality! If the men are so weak and badly brought up that they cannot control themselves then it is the women's job to cover themselves head to toe in 40 c° heat of Tehran summers in order to save men from "losing their dignity and security"! What a backwards logic!

The Muslim male mentality sees a woman like a vagina from head to toe! The stupidest thing is that they always explained Hijab to us in school and elsewhere as a sign of "respect" towards woman and a sign that men don't  see them as sexual objects!! I even asked once from a relatively more open minded and relaxed religion teacher in our high school: " People always cover their private parts (i.e. genitals) because they consider those parts sexual object. But if women are not sexual objects then why cover them?" Of course she didn't have any good answer and went on like: " Blah, blah... in the West women are just pieces of meet and are always raped , etc..." but in the end she said that: " Men are men anyway and you cannot change them! You can only protect yourself from their evil eye!!"

The saddest thing is that what they teach to many kids become second nature for them and they accept it and act upon it when they grow up. That is why you cannot find a more sexually obsessed human being than a Muslim man!

In Iran we used to have mixed buses some years back. Men and women sat and stood in the bus together. But when the government separated the buses and made men sit and stand in the front and women in the back everyone, including the non religious women were for it. You know why? Because in the rush hour when the buses were very full and men and women were standing side by side the women were harassed like mad! You could not stand there without having some disgusting man pinch your behind and another try to rub himself against your breasts while you were holding the metal bar! It was a rap-like experience! Especially that people who use the bus for transport are usually from lower classes of society and are more religious.

There seams to be a direct connection between religiosity of a Muslim male and his being hungry for women! Many times when a woman walks in the streets of Iranian towns and minding her own business suddenly a man standing or passing on the sidewalk can make obscene comments about her and tell her rude things like: " Sweetie, how much do you cost?!" or even more obscene things that I don't feel comfortable to write here, just to satisfy his urges for harassing women. This kind of things can happen many times a day and is a common and "normal" phenomenon in the streets of Iranian cities! Nowhere in the West men speak like that to women randomly in the street!

The more they deprive men from having normal contact with women the more they become like wild animals and they become controlled by their sexual desires and eventually go to the point that they cannot see women as anything else but sexual objects and that is extremely unhealthy!

The relation between sexual repression, dysfunction and violence on one hand and the criminality of the jihaddis on the other is beginning to be documented and material is becoming available.

There is much cowardice among the publishers, but material is starting to trickle out anyway.

Slightly off topic, but related, this bit from Jamie Glasov at The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror

The sexual privileges that are allowed in Islamic cultures are permitted to men. Women’s sexuality and social independence represent major threats to male supremacy and are tightly controlled. Thus, as the Moroccan feminist Fitna Sabbah reveals in her book Woman in the Muslim Unconscious, there is a disturbing conflict in the Middle East between sexual libido and repression. A deep-seated fear of, and hostility to, individuality prevails, and its main expression exists in misogyny.

Socially segregated from women, Arab men succumb to homosexual behavior. But, interestingly enough, there is no word for "homosexual" in their culture in the modern Western sense. That is because having sex with boys, or with effeminate men, is seen as a social norm. Males serve as available substitutes for unavailable women.

‘Those women who appear in public like decadent models endanger the security and dignity of young men,’

This statement is a good example the complete arrogance of Mohammedan men. Worthless humans.

So, now they will ban them from Tehran. Wow, this must be what moderate muslims do, as opposed to stoning them.

Hugh, Robert, is this a moderate Muslim?

Rita:

The one thing about all of this is that the more the truth is exposed about the primitivism, extremism and brutality in Iran, the nearer draws such time that it will all come crashing down around the perpetrators of this madness.

How insane is that, requiring women to cover themselves head to toe in black in one of the world's hottest climates ? And no shorts for men ?

Several years ago in Ontario, on an extremely hot day, we were stopped at a red light and watched a moslem woman cross the intersection in front of our car. She was accompanied by another, older woman (mother in law ? first wife ?)
The younger woman was covered from head to toe, pushing a toddler in a stroller and hugely pregnant. Her face was the colour of a beet - I was worried she was about to have a stroke, or pass out.

I felt so sorry for her then. I wouldn't now.

Sheep in thongs are fine. Actually, you can buy sheep in thongs credits which will allow you to dress immodestly for a limited amount of time.

"I felt so sorry for her then. I wouldn't now."
from a post above.

Does anyone think a woman would suffer such indignities by choice? She was hijabed because she was forced into it. In the case you described, the hijab should be views exactly like chains on a slave.

That Iran is having to take such measures shows clearly that the law is being tested by enough women that the regime is worried. This is a clear sign that the Islamic regime does not have the support of its people. The "Women in Teheran who repeatedly flout the Islamic dress code in defiance of a police crackdown" are NOT trying to "endanger the security and dignity of young men". This is just a cover. These women are making a political statement.

"should be viewed"
sorry for the typo. I have thick fingers.

to ritamalik - I am so sorry that you have had to live that way. While I don't agree that with everything that is done here in the west we have at least come far enough to say that men are responsible for their own actions and it isn't a womans fault that they have issues. My heart and prayers go to anyone living in that situation.

"Does anyone think a woman would suffer such indignities by choice? "

if you hear the regular retards here nasperm and abdeluded, they think it's right.

If you hear the totality of men in muslim lands they think it's right, their stupid women OFTEN agree. Sometimes when a woman is too free in their cesspools, it's women that start throwing stones and calling her names.

Don't underestimate the underdeveloped brain of muslim women, they agree with islam too.

"You know my dear friends in West? You most probably have never seen such evil creatures around you! "

less whining please. Women in the west rightly deserve their freedoms because they FOUGHT big time against chauvinism.

If your people more than the usual male chauvinism have islam justifying everything it's YOUR problem. It's YOUR RELIGION, that was backward and violent from the beginning.

And yes, we will start to see those in our countries too, since muslims bring backwardness, immorality and dirtyness everywhere they go.

Sorry, FedUp, but your comments to Rita are even more dimwitted than your usual drivel. I for one would like to consider myself one of her "dear friends in the West," and I'm personally gratified that she is here on this forum.

BTW, you might consider directing your vitriol at someone you have half a chance of intimidating. From what I've read, it would seem Rita has looked into the eyes of demons up close and personal--even on a bus ride or simply strolling down the street--and she is unlikely to be intimidated by the likes of you.

Regards,

HAID

Women in Iran will not be free until these "religious police" risk being swarmed by mobs and beaten to death whenever they show their faces

I would modify my previous post to instead say "whenever they appear" to take into account the ones whose faces do not show

fed up is exactly right. Until women in moslem countries start ganging up and thumping these cowards - they will have a rough time.

‘Those women who appear in public like decadent models endanger the security and dignity of young men,’ prosecutor Saeed Mortazavi was quoted as saying by the Etemad newspaper.

What's the matter? Iranian men can't be trusted to control their lustful urges so the women need to be punished by making them wear shrouds? But then again, they ARE emulating that paragon of virtue known as Mr. Perfect so this makes perfect sense in a society warped by sharia. And CAIR and its ilk want to bring such joys to us all. Too bad Islamic women can't leave Islam and declare their own jihad on such nonsense-that would solve a multitude of problems for the whole world.

"Women in Iran will not be free until these 'religious police' risk being swarmed by mobs and beaten to death whenever they show their faces."

"fed up is exactly right. Until women in moslem countries start ganging up and thumping these cowards - they will have a rough time."

Yep. A little thumping ought to fix things and reverse centuries of female subservience and humiliation under Islam.

I wonder why Iranian women haven't thought of simply taking matters into their own hands.

Beats me.

Seconded Haid,
While women of the west (us) did indeed fight for their rights i seriously doubt they had to fight for their lives along side it. Islam is not forgiving to those who disobey mohamed(piss be upon him). Although i agree that Irainians should be standing up as over 75% are under 30 but brainwashing is a powerfull tool, just look at the west bank and gaza where little kids are trained to kill. Unfortunately it will take violence to over throw the opression of islam. I am still amazed that this nazi like ideology is looked upon as a religion and therefore taboo to be criticized. too bad the bashers of christianity dont have the balls to do the same to islam, but then again i dont know of christain riots and threats of death from the masses of followers either. The left screams all day about separation of church and state then pass laws favoring islam like the halal meat and foot washing basins in a college in Minn. or the damn bacon check out lady. WTF?!?

"Sorry, FedUp, but your comments to Rita are even more dimwitted than your usual drivel. I for one would like to consider myself one of her "dear friends in the West," and I'm personally gratified that she is here on this forum."

the dimwitted comments are yours.

I don't want nobody to lecture us about how shitty are the muslim countries (like we didn't know it already).

Even chinese society was chauvinistic with concubinate and used to treat women as inferior. Guess what? THEY CAME OUT OF THAT. Nowaydays you have in china more businesses run by women than in USA.

I would like to be spared the useless comments "you don't know how it is bla bla bla". Do I feel pity for the people in iran? No way.

That kind of backwardness is somewhat similar to what happens in the countrysides of south europe and christian africa, but in muslim countries they have one more problem, their religion allowing all of that.

Sorry I don't feel any sympathy for the whinings of those people. Yeah, iran is a shitty place, is it OUR fault? It's their own MAN MADE fault.

And sharing her experiences on a bus, PLEEEEASE, have you ever met a woman in the west that was harassed sexually by a man?

If she had half the tongue then of what she has now she could solve the situation herself.

"BTW, you might consider directing your vitriol at someone you have half a chance of intimidating. From what I've read, it would seem Rita has looked into the eyes of demons up close and personal--even on a bus ride or simply strolling down the street--and she is unlikely to be intimidated by the likes of you."

i am not interested in intimidating, I was merely stating that we should be all fed up with those sort of people coming to us WHINING, and possibly telling us also lies, such as that iranian people disagree with the government.

Wake up, you cannot be muslim and disagreeing with an islamic society.

We had thousands of examples of how muslim women like this lifestyle and how most of the times women are the best vehicle to keep the other women in chains.

You can pretend not to notice and be the arrogant you are. The muslim women are part of the problem here, not of the solution.

"I wonder why Iranian women haven't thought of simply taking matters into their own hands."

boo hoooo, they have the courage of blowing themselves up, don't they? where's the courage in other situations?

Haid,
Now this is where we part, just because a thing is hard does not mean it cant be done. Are you saying they should just give up trying or resisting? Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. There are something worth dying over and the future is one of those things. Young Irainians need to get back to their Persian non islamic roots.

Remember, excuses are like assholes, everyone gots one.

FedUpagain has a point about always whinning and never doing. Its like having a stick in your eye and saying it hurts and complaining but refusing to pull it out.

URGENT MESSAGE TO ritamalik

please tell us what we need to do, on a personal level to overthrow the iranian regime?

how can we help your cause?

can we send anything that can aid your struggle?

tell us what is badly needed right now in iran that will assist the iranian people.

i'm hoping that somehow we can raise an international brigade to try and take down the iranian government ourselves. it may be suicidal but hey! no one else gives a f**k about this.

the west is just sitting back waiting for the first set of islamic nukes to go off in london/nyc and paris.

do you have contacts in iran that we can reach?

Part of me has to agree with fedupagain, look at all the muslim praise we earned kicking serbian ass on thier behalf. Maybe melosovic was on the right path. Ungratefull savages. Islam needs a reformation from within or crushed from the outside.

Wake up, you cannot be muslim and disagreeing with an islamic society.

You are right, but according to ritamalik, she's no longer a Muslim, but an apostate. I agree with you that people have to take their risks and rebel against the Mullahs, but I agree with Haid that your hostility towards her is out of place. I do consider the Iranian people enemies until such time that enough of them (i.e. > 50%) openly jettison Islam: however, once they do cross that line, I am more than happy to consider them allies. I do wonder whether there's anything they can do - apostasy included - to earn your support?

Provoslavni

Imnodhimmi seems to be talking about a Muslimah in Toronto, not Teheran. There is a difference. Even if in ON, she's with her owner, er mother-in-law, fact remains that she chooses to lead that existence, and in the process, contribute to making ON look more Islamic and giving CAIR and similar terror outfits more sting than they already have.

I agree with him. While I have limited sympathy for the women in Teheran, I have none for the women in Toronto.

Under sharia, Islamic law, imposed after Iran’s 1979 revolution, women are obliged to cover their hair and wear long, loose-fitting clothes to disguise their figures and protect their modesty.

I've got the perfect solution: Women should shave their heads and wear togas. What's more loose-fitting and disguises the figure better than a toga? And, with no hair to cover, no hijab required! The perfect summer solution for these overheated young ladies.

Nearly all religions and societies in general practice some form of gender discrimination, the only distinction being the degree. Islamic societies are a fine example of the severity of gender discrimination currently practiced and infused therein.

While some posters have stated opposing ideas as to where the blame lies, we must never be side-tracked to think that the core of the problem is not Islam itself. Like the futility of attempting to define a 'moderate' Muslim, with their associative 'moderate' ideological parameters, it is equally futile to direct absolute blame against the individual who allows the system to exploit and repress them...but not the system itself. There are undoubtably, and quite enmigmatically in my opinion, Muslim women who support the very ideology, and its evolution into the controlling social tool of Shari'ah, that represses and discriminates against them. Logically, in a pool of over 1.3 billion adherents worldwide, there are some who oppose it, whether overtly or not.

Both, FedUpagain and ritamalik make compelling arguments. The former pointing to the fact that those in Islamic societies should be actively fighting against imposing forces that they do not want, and I suggest that some have. If I recall, ritamalik has left Islam, and for her, that choice is what she needed to obtain her freedom. The latter, pointing to the obvious flaw in the male Islamic mindset, a flawed mindset that was transformed into a flawed ideology, as created by a flawed man. One of the built-in excuses of Islam, specifically in this case, the blamelessness of the sexually repressed male Muslim to properly control their urges, which now warrants additional repression of the Muslim female to offset this.

The mindset and the actions of individual Muslims, male or female, are effectively irrelevant in comparison to the mindset coerced by and actions compelled by, the failed ideology of Islam itself. Sadly, the prospect of Islam undergoing a menaingful reformation of any kind is quite frankly, next to none. It has been revealed by this site that the Qur'an itself, the supposed immutable words of Allah, is a main source of the problem, the impetus that perpetuates the Islamic thoughts and actions we see today. The mere suggestion of a change to the immutable words of Allah effectively strips the Qur'an of it's divinity and deals a near-fatal blow to the entire Islamic ideology. I do not suspect that any practicing Muslim will propose such heresy, but rather just attempt to join the ranks of the apostates from Islam.

What if this never happens, are you going to wait how many centuries?.....If you are going to wait until even one forth of the muslim world apostasize, you are clearly deluded Posted by: FedUpagain

awake

Your argument sounds almost like a tu-Quoque everyone does it about males. But during the women's sufferage movement, there weren't the widespread death threats against feminist activists. Sure, those who participated in those struggles could complain that there were hardships they had to go through, but the big difference between the two was that Western women were campaigning against patriarchal societies, where they risked jail, as opposed to Muslim women not campaigning against downright misogynist societies, where they risk getting murdered.

A moderate muslim is a non praticing muslim.

IP,

I fail to understand your charge that; "Your argument sounds almost like a tu-Quoque everyone does it about males." Could you please elaborate?

I am aware of the differences in Islamic and western societies. I suggested that Iranian Muslim females should fight against the oppression that is and has been imposed upon them, as I believe you did.

More importantly, my post accentuated that Islam should be the focus of the blame, not the individual actions af any particular Muslim. I was essentially agreeing with ritamalik about the male Islamist mindset, one that originated with, and is quite similar to, that of Muhammad.

Exactly where did I go wrong in your opinion.

I have a friend from Iran, a young man whose manners are extremely polite and respectable -- but who spouts the most glorious, undiluted Islamism and support for the Iranian regime, with a friendly smile, and with all due respect...

I told him about some other friends from Iran, who had escaped the country on foot some years ago because of religious persecution. (Don't worry, I was not stupid enough to divulge identifying information to this guy.)

He replied that their story was unbelievable, and that they must be lying because such things don't happen in Iran, which is the most tolerant society in the whole middle east.

So I asked him why they would lie about such a thing, and that I could relate to him several other such stories.

He replied that "Everyone in Iran wants to come to America. These people were lying in order to get refugee status because they were afraid of not being permitted to come."

As there is a very large Iranian immigrant population in our town, his first sentence is pretty believable. I assume that he speaks for himself as well. As an aside, I wonder how he reconciles this with his glowing description of how wonderful Iran is.

Why would Iranian young men be clamouring to come to america? Why do young married professionals come here with their young families, if they know these poor young men will be exposed to our "uncovered meat" that is so offensive to them, and destroys their chastity?

I think I know why. It is precisely BECAUSE of the uncovered meat, at least for some of them -- perhaps the majority. Imagine being a young man at the height of your sexual powers (easier for some of you than others), and never permitted to see more than the eyes, nose and hands of the ladies around you.

You marry one of these sealed packages and find that what's underneath is not really to your liking ... a nice person perhaps but doesn't really turn your crank. Then you look at the uncovered meat in the western TV channels you pick up on your satellite dish; the young things flirting with whomever on the internet ... where would you want to go?

They should be issued bibs when they get here for when they salivate in public.

Anyone got stats on the frequency of Mutah marriage to nonmuslims in North America? It might provide an interesting correlation with my hypothesis.

Unfortunately, such stats would be hard to validate because You needn't even tell anyone except the "spouse"! ... Don't worry honey, we'll just keep this between the two of us...

Note the traditional Mahr ("marriage" gift ... read John Fee) is a handful of dates, though it may be wheat, or whatever. Anyway, gives a whole new meaning to the term "dating"!

"Women in Iran will not be free until these "religious police" risk being swarmed by mobs and beaten to death whenever they show their faces"

I agree! However, I would also expect (and hope) that the "religious police" will be attacked by the husbands, fathers, and brothers of these women for harassing them. After all, if these women are dressing un-Islamically, we can be sure that, in many cases, it is with the support of their families.

While the mullahs and the illiterate are the regime's base of support, most educated Iranians, male and female, long for freedom. Just showing a little more of one's head than the law allows, may seem to us in the West as very little but these subtle acts of resistance are the first signs of cracks in the totalitarian regime.

Infidel Pride -

Thanks for coming to my defense !

As a woman, I do feel sorrow for the plight of women living under islam. I am horrified at the restrictions and cruelties with which they are forced to live. Yet some of them embrace this life and even defend it, to the death !

The muslimah I wrote about was in Hamilton Ontario, and I have no sympathy for her because she does not have to live that life in Canada. She is free under our laws to dress as she pleases, to report her husband when he beats her, even to divorce him if she chooses.

Any woman who converts to islam, or who lives in a Western country while remaining completely bound by the restrictions of islam, does not get my sympathy. Not anymore. I have learned too much about the "religion of peace" in the past 5 years.

awake

The tu Quoque conclusion I came to about your statement sprang from the opening paragraphs of your post:

Nearly all religions and societies in general practice some form of gender discrimination, the only distinction being the degree. Islamic societies are a fine example of the severity of gender discrimination currently practiced and infused therein.

Without getting into an off topic discussion as to whether these are legitimate concerns for women or not (a discussion that generally tends to polarize along Left-Right ideologies), these issues are nowhere near that faced by women in the Islamic world. If you wanted to marry a man of your choice from another religion, the government wouldn't stop you, and even if your parents disapproved of your choice, they wouldn't kill you to preserve their honor. If you were a Muslim woman - regardless of whether in the West or in the Islamic empire - that is what is likely to happen to you. Only difference is that in the West, legally a Muslimah is free to marry an Infidel, but her relatives/ the local ummah is likely to target her and her husband for murder. Similarly, if you wanted to not marry, there would be hell to pay, although maybe not as much as the above. You think Muslimahs would even dream of joining a girl scouts, let alone try and gatecrash the boy scouts?

You claim that "my post accentuated that Islam should be the focus of the blame". If that's the case, I have no disagreement with you. I could have sworn that the bolded portion of your above post indicates otherwise.

I don’t know why some of the posters are so angry with me here! I basically don’t disagree with them in most of what they say even! If they think I am speaking as a Muslim they are wrong! I have said it before that I am an apostate and I never liked Islam anyway and I freely acknowledge that it has an evil hold over my country. So I guess your hostility is a bit misdirected.

To Fedupagain: I know you are, well… fed up again, but I think you haven’t read my previous comments closely enough. I know I am a bit too chatty and I write too long messages I think I am still clear! So please be fair and remember that I said I am just telling about my own experience and point of view and I am no polling company or expert analyst. I agree with you that Iranians should be a lot more actively opposing the government than now. But this is of course a lot easier said than done. It is a very scary decision to make. Of course we should make it, but it takes time to gather communal courage. Besides let’s not forget that there are 100s of political prisoners in Iranian jails as we speak who have already made this decision and are paying for it dearly and I always say to my fellow Iranians: “Shame on us for doing nothing to help them!” I personally have come to Europe a year ago and have not settled completely yet in my new country, but I am planning to start with a blog sometime soon.

As a person who is in the West I see a lot of misconceptions about Muslims here in Europe. They are considered “just another world religion” and “equal to Christians and Jews” and nonsense like that. I can see here in Finland (where I live now) just how may women with Burqas walk around. It is scary. Then these fanatics come here and form “Islamic organizations” and try to push Shari’a on all the people with Muslim background (like me) or even the natives! But fortunately Finland is not as far gone as Sweden. For example I heard from a Muslim immigrant that anytime they get a permit from the government to build up a new mosque somewhere immediately the people of the neighborhood collect many signatures and send a letter to the local authorities to say that they don’t want any mosque to be built in their neighborhood! I was really happy to hear that even though this Muslim guy was really annoyed at this fact!

Anyway, I will try to find some outlet to make a change. That is my own part. But of course I cannot decide for Ms. Anasari for example or anyone else. After all she is now also an American citizen and has her right to pursuit of happiness. If she has managed to come out of that hellhole called I.R. Iran and become so successful I still respect her. People have the right to be happy.

You wrote: “"You know my dear friends in West? You most probably have never seen such evil creatures around you! "
less whining please. Women in the west rightly deserve their freedoms because they FOUGHT big time against chauvinism.”
I was not whining. I was trying to tell to the readers of this site that I don’t consider the moral police in Iran human. The reason why I feel necessary to write this is because I know many Westerners (my own husband included) that have no point of comparison. For example I have had many conversations with the Europeans here and even some Americans who cannot believe that a person can be so bad and so evil that you cannot talk to and reason with. They for example are critical of the US for calling the Islamists “evil” and they think “they are also human” and soft stuff like that. My point here is not to tell you, Fedupagain, about the evils of moral police members, but to those who might still have a soft spot for these monsters. Westerners simply have no point of comparison. They grew up in nice and civilized societies and most people around them are fairly reasonable. Many of you on this site hate Islam as much as I do but might not have had a face to face experience with the militant types. I have been jailed by the moral police twice. That was why I wrote what I wrote. It was just an insider’s affirmation of your guesses and feelings about how a militant Muslim should be like up close. Well… you all guessed it right! Such person feels even more evil up close than on the pages of the newspaper. That was all I had to say!
Leonthepigfarmer, my friend, thank you for your eagerness to help. If I only had all the answers! I think Westerners have the luxury of democracy and if only they are alert enough and have all the accurate information they can make the right decisions which will reflect on their votes. So if they only knew what they are up against and if more numbers of them were as informed and vigilant as most posters on this site then a lot of problems could have been solved and avoided by voting the right people into power and by demanding the right actions from the elected officials. So I think the best thing one can do to inform as many people as possible about the truth and also actively participate in elections.
As for me since I believe because of my situation I sit on two chairs so to speak, I can try my best to tell about what I know to be true in this situation in Iran to as many people as I can in the West and vice versa. That’s why I want to have a blog and that’s why I write here. Information is a powerful tool. So I think the best thing action-minded people should do is speak, speak and write and write and make as much noise as possible so more people could wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late. Shari’a is like plague and it takes over places unexpectedly and very quickly, and non-Muslim societies should not think they are immune to it. That’s why I applaud sites like JW and DW. It saddens me that still many Westerners are not interested in this subject or are actually somehow implicitly or explicitly, due to their sheer ignorance and naiveté side with the Islamists and facilitate their takeover. The best thing for people like you and me who are in the West now to try to combat the ignorant and the naïve.

awake

I apologize - I missed this statement of yours: "we must never be side-tracked to think that the core of the problem is not Islam itself." More precisely, the 'not' in that sentence.

ritamalik

You make a good case. I dunno whether you had me in mind, but I'm not angry at you. I presume that you would understand why many of us can't consider the people of Iran as non-adversarial until they do what you did, and bail out of Islam.

IP,

Thanks for your clarification. My initial statement was merely one of fact, like the inability of women to achieve the same heirarchical level that men can in the Catholic church, for example. It was in no way attempting to minimalize the degree of gender discrimination inherently found in Islam.

The remainder of my post was, in all practicality, a defense of the subjugated female gender in Islam coupled with the explicit message that Islam itself is to blame, and not any particular adherent to the ideology itself, all of whom I deemed as irrelevant.

From my first post:
"While some posters have stated opposing ideas as to where the blame lies, we must never be side-tracked to think that the core of the problem is not Islam itself."

I believe that is crystal clear and therefore, we have no disagreement on this issue.

Regards,

awake

IP,

No apologies needed, no offence taken. I was writing my last response as you posted your last, so there is no reason to respond.

ritamalik,

I can't see a valid reason why people would be angry with you. Debate is ongoing here and not everyone agrees. I have enjoyed your posts to date and ask that you continue. They have proven to be quite enlightening.

First in America and western Europe, and then gradually through much of the rest of the world, the notion of individual rights has caught on.

The biggest cultural block in which the idea of individual rights and freedom has not advanced is in the mohammedan countries.

I suspect that for the average non-political person, even Communist China is a freer place than the mohammedan block.

After the notion of individual rights came in, the realization that it applies to women followed pretty quick by historical standards. As in "Doh, aren't women individuals too?"

There can be no rights for women in the mohammedan block until the notion of individual rights is recognized.

And the notion of individual rights will not be recognized until the mohammedan peoples stand up and fight for it.

And the mohammedan peoples will not fight for their rights until they start to question islam.

===========

I have very mixed feelings about sympathizing with the plight of mohammedan women, and suspect that there is more guilt than innocence involved here. There is genuine oppression and murder. And yet there is also much complicity and collaboration.

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

Until mohammedan women start teaching their sons and daughters to stand up for their rights and to respect the rights of others, not least of whom would be their own mothers, they can forget about having any rights of their own.

Until they open their eyes and realize that the wealth and freedom civilized women enjoy is more desireable than their dramatic self-indulgent weepy victim posturing, nothing will change.

And the woman who applauds her son for committing a suicide-killing will remain ignorant, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen all her life -- and will die in the poverty and misery she has earned.

The western people are bigot in thinking that muslim woman are force to cover thenself head to toe. They do so willing and I ask the woman who are muslim and they told me so. It better to cover your up in those hot enviroment. The clothes those people wear was devolp along time ago to deal with they climate.

ritamalik,

You wrote, "I don’t know why some of the posters are so angry with me here!"

I just want to say that I think that your observations and thoughts are really valuable. Keep writing .. keep thinking .. keep questioning! As for the simpletons who dismiss your thoughts .. or display insipid understanding (of the 'why don't Muslim women just gang up on Muslim men and beat them up' variety ) .. try to ignore them as best you can. There are plenty of Americans who forget our history .. or, worse, who have no clear idea of what it took for us to fight and win the revolution for our freedom from Colonialism; these people take our independence for granted. (And there are plenty of Europeans who, to this day, fail to appreciate why we fought for our liberty - who consider us 'backwards' for rejecting what they have :) )

It appears to me that you don't take living in a (relatively) free Europe at all for granted. It sounds like you have a genius for adjusting to your new culture .. my heavens but some of the whiners here could not adjust to having their favorite TV chair occupied, never-mind transplanting themselves to a new culture from an oppressive (albeit, also beloved) culture. And you are so new to Europe!

The last thing you need is to have your experience and wisdom denied. The best thing for the world right now is to have more people questioning the absolutism of Islam (and conscientiously rejecting totalitarian Islam) and you ought to be fully welcomed in this forum .. and congratulated for your honesty and bravery. Let me stand among those who have done so and add my voice to yours .. for freedom and liberty from totalitarianism in all its hateful forms.

"Under sharia, Islamic law, imposed after Iran’s 1979 revolution, women are obliged to cover their hair and wear long, loose-fitting clothes to disguise their figures and protect their modesty."

Ah .. Al-Reuters working its utmost best to be 'fair' (even when describing totalitarian sharia 'law'). Covering up women's bodies in body bags (before death) is no more about 'modesty' than chains on slaves are about 'ankle support'.

You bigot racist better stop useing the word mohammeden first it is insulting and incorrect. The poper correct usage is muslim woman. I thjan reading abook by Paul Findley Silent No More the musslim in america are finaly speak out about the truth of Islam against the racist bigotery of Robert Spencer and follower.

DefenderofIslam

You are a Mohammedan. You worship not just Allah, but Mohammed with him - that's what the Shehada calls out. Not to overlook the following verses from your Mein Kamph, er Quran:

If you love Allah then follow Muhammad and Allah will forgive your sins…3:31
Muhammad is the only person to be obeyed or followed blindly…3:32
Obeying Allah and Muhammad (i.e., his examples) is mandatory…3:132
Whoever obeys Allah and Muhammad is guaranteed Paradise…4:13
Obeying Muhammad is obeying Allah…4:80
Muslims must follow only what has been revealed to Muhammad…5:48
Rejecting Muhammad is rejecting Allah’s revelations (Qur’an)…6:33
Provisions (rules and examples) set by Allah and Muhammad is binding to all Muslims: there are no alternatives…33:36
Allah has made Muhammad an excellent example for the believers to follow…33:21
Obeying Allah and the apostle (Muhammad) is the highest achievement…33:71
The believers must obey Allah and Muhammad lest Allah nullifies their works…47:33
Pledging allegiance to Muhammad is pledging allegiance to Allah…48:10
Allah has prepared a blazing fire for those who reject Allah and his apostle Muhammad...48:13
Islam means submission or surrender; the believers must submit to Allah and Muhammad…49:14
Those who reject Allah and His messenger (Muhammad) will be reduced to dust...58:5

I have no sympathy for muslim women at all especially those living in iran and saudi arabia.

Any nonmuslim woman who marries a muslim is a fool.

I've been away for awhile and it seems I got a nasty little polemic going.

First of all, to FedUp, I'm sorry. I was completely out of line calling you dimwitted. I didn't have the time to explain that Rita is one of us, not a muslimah, as you implied in blaming "your religion" when addressing her. When pressed for time, I'm sometimes not myself.

Please forgive.

As for the nonsense that Iranian women and others oppressed under Islam everywhere can effectively rebel to improve their lots, I must continue to disagree. Even after escaping from Islam you'd better have sufficient resources in order to protest safely. Ayan Hirsi Ali travels everywhere with bodyguards, and she resides in the West now. To insist that resistance is necessary even if futile, as also argued here, is to believe that death for you and your children is better than submission, as Favre suggests (and he may be right) but I believe we should leave that judgment to those women. In similar circumstances you may choose to submit to the religious decrees and care for your kids, might you not?

One of the things Rita was trying to convey, and I think she was very persuasive, is that there is a brand of evil almost unimaginable to us Westerners, in some cases even to us on this forum that truly "get it." Indeed, this evil stems, as we know, from the most pernicious and sadistic ideology the world has ever known. It will not admit to simple solutions, I'm afraid.

Some here have even confessed that they have no sympathy for these women because they're part of the problem. In many cases, I'm sure that's true, but I'm sad for them nonetheless, especially for those who are stuck with no options whether they would seek them or not. At any rate, hanging at the end of a construction crane like an inept bungee jumper, all the vogue in Iran, isn't much of a choice.

Let's not fight with each other. The trolls are back. And there are enough of them to go around.

Regards,

HAID

I use the term "Mohammedans" all the time in my writing. It is certainly not racist or even pejorative. It is in fact an accurate designation, as intended. The troll who objects is a Mohammedan. I don't have a clue about his race, proving my point.

The term also has a classical flair to it.

I like it and highly recommend its use.

Don't let the trolls bother you.

I certainly understand the conflicted feelings some posters here have articulated about Muslim women - Victims? Or perpetrators unworthy of our sympathy? Frankly it's one of the more complicated moral questions anti-jihadists face. But clearly Rita stands outside that equation altogether, since she is an apostate. That makes her among the very bravest. I completely welcome her insights here and would especially look forward to her actually taking on some of our trolls, like Naseem, Abdullah and Defenderofislam. That's something we haven't seen too much in this comments section - Muslim female apostates debating both female and male Muslim trolls. So 1) Bring it on and 2) Go Rita!

I have two words for Muslim women:

LOREENA BOBBIT.

Who's favorite saying was:

"It won't be long now."

Mohammedan men would cut the crap quick if awakened one night by all of the women of Islam and given a choice:

"Either I get full equality, or you do."

Profitsbeard - you crack me up! OK - I'll bite.:-) Was that really Loreena Bobbit's favorite saying?

John McCain's new hit single "Bomb Iran" (actually by P. Shanklin) - have a listen:

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/bombiran.asx

A Teheran police spokesman said that since Saturday 3,242 people had received a warning for breaching the dress code in the capital, the semi-official Fars news agency said. "The code also covers men who are not allowed to wear shorts."

Socially segregated from women, Arab men succumb to homosexual behavior. But, interestingly enough, there is no word for "homosexual" in their culture in the modern Western sense. That is because having sex with boys, or with effeminate men, is seen as a social norm. Males serve as available substitutes for unavailable women.
Posted by: joeblough

The same males who can't stand the sight of female flesh lest it excite them to immoral behavior must get excited at the sight of men and boy's (most likely the latter) legs being exposed. Cover yourselves boys lest you be ravished by the pedophilic homosexual perverts. Maybe they'll come up with a male version of the hijab.

JW teammates:
It's pretty encouraging to read the way this thread has some fiery posts, some tangles, some restorations etc. I like that.

We know that Rita left islam and Iran--and may I say this from the housetops:

Rita Rocks!!! How cool that we can have this input from a JW sister who knows the ropes -- mulitiple times imprisoned by the Iranian moral police no less (gag me--what sick thought--I hate islam--I hate islam!! I hate mohammed too!)

However, I hate the term apostate for Rita because (perhaps it's just to me) "apostate" has such a negative connotation to it. I know apostate means "one who has departed from a position formerly held," I used to study Greek from whence the word comes--usually it denotes leaving something orthodox or sound. Instead of "apostate" how about "awakened ex-muslim" or something else like this???

BB

here here! good on rita. she is truly a champion!

profitsbeard

good post of yours but domestic abuse is not that easy to get out of, unfortunately. the women still love their men that abuse them and make them cower to islam. my sister in law was a victim of domestic abuse, and it took her 4 months of massive courage, (personal internet cyber warfare) and family encouragement to get her away.
What these women in iran are going though is sick, against nature and really just mysoginistic crap prolly 100 times more than what my sister in law went through.

as rite said, they need a collective movement. though 2 days ago there was a demo against the bullying of women.

maybe muslim men should wear blinkers or some type of eye coverings to stop them from getting aroused by women? or maybe they need some therapy to stop their perversions?
im sure its their fault for getting aroused.

maybe rosie odonnel or some other hollywood liberal could campaign for this?

why does the woman have to cover and the man can walk around wearing "western" clothes?

Caroline-

"... be long..."

If it wasn't, it should have been :~)

Leon-

I know Stockholm Syndrome- The Home Version is tenacious.

Just trying to insinuate a little hint for any Iranian gals (b)logging in from mullahworld.

Muslim Women Unite!- you have nothing to lose but your abuse!

Rita, your comments are most welcome here and I hope you are free and happy in your new country.
Please continue to post frequently so you can enlighten the many readers of this site about the pure evil of isalm and how it destroys the human spirit.

As for you, Defenderofsatanicislam, mohammadean moron, learn the definitions of "racist" and "bigot", or quit using the words. I hate islam, but I am not a bigot. I don't know what "race" you are and it really doesn't matter because all muslims are mentally challenged and morally depraved. The clothing that muslim females wear was not designed to make them comfortable and if you really believe that, you're dumber than the average muslim, quite an accomplishment! The outer garments worn by mohammadean women to conceal their bodies are simply one instrument among many used to humiliate, oppress, and enslave them. They will eventually figure that out for themselves; many already have.

Defend islam all you want, but why do you bother doing it here? We're among the few Westerners who understand your vile death cult, so you're wasting your time. Your comments, which are barely comprehensible and very difficult to decipher, are laughable.

I am SO disgusted by what I have read in just the first half by a bunch of American idiots who have probably never been outside of American to know the truth of other cultures!! Newsflash: in our own country, there are still many Christian religious fanatics who use Scripture to say that women are to be silent in the church; women are just property of men to submit and take it with a smile. Yes, we have certainly come a long way, but we have a long way to go yet. I have had countless numbers of women in my counseling office who have been through horrors that were encouraged by male counselors, male pastors and fathers.

I am a deep lover of Jesus, but I hate religion. It is all destructive apart from relationship. Jesus began to woo me to His heart by showing me in Scripture how good he was to women, in the midst of a culture that did not value women as they did men. What happens to a woman in a muslim nation who is found with a Christian Bible? Hmmm.

There are pioneering women in muslim countries, but give me a break. Some females, like in the West Bank, know nothing apart from the villiges they are raised in which devalue females as their worth is not appreciated. They don't even know there is another way to live: no idea!!

You judgemental ones who think you know how easy it should be for the women to rise up are talking from your head, but you have no experience to understand and empathize with the victims of these lands and laws.

If some of you put as much power into prayer for these women that you do in hate and judging them wrongly without understanding the fullness of what they are walking through, you might could change their world.

I, an American woman, have spoken with Muslim women who live their lives in complete fear, yes in the great USA. I have been in an Muslim country, stayed in a PA ruled area in Israel. I got lost in Isreal in the modern Muslim section of Jerusalem. I could cut the air with a knife and was praying hard for God to protect me, His daughter. A young Arab man who spoke fluent english walked right up to me and led me to where I needed to go: my Arab angel. Without God Almighty, these women don't stand a chance. WE can make a difference in their lives by showing open love, versus closed, my way or the highway, stupidity hatred.

I suspect some of you do not understand how hateful you sound. There is supposed to freedom of speech here, yet some of you shut down someone for speaking her mind, showing her courage, expereince, thoughts and feelings.

If you have no experience with this, just be quiet, please!

I am SO disgusted by what I have read in just the first half by a bunch of American idiots who have probably never been outside of American to know the truth of other cultures!! Newsflash: in our own country, there are still many Christian religious fanatics who use Scripture to say that women are to be silent in the church; women are just property of men to submit and take it with a smile. Yes, we have certainly come a long way, but we have a long way to go yet. I have had countless numbers of women in my counseling office who have been through horrors that were encouraged by male counselors, male pastors and fathers.

Posted by: lightinshadows

I hope you are not as moronic as this makes you sound. Let's see, in what country is a Christian government enforcing Christian religious laws?

Again, anectodal information about individual Arab men doesn't excuse the repressive state religion that Islam imposes on all its slaves.
Some Arabs happen to be Christian or other religions and therefore haven't lost touch with the rest of humanity. That doesn't negate what their governments are doing to women under religious law.

BTW Don't assume that a few of us posters haven't been out of the country. Some of us have spent many years outside the USA. That's precisely why I bought my family back here to enjoy our liberty while we still have it before our own homegrown morons surrender it to our enemies.

lightinshadows,

"I am SO disgusted by what I have read in just the first half by a bunch of American idiots who have probably never been outside of American to know the truth of other cultures!! Newsflash: in our own country, there are still many Christian religious fanatics who use Scripture to say that women are to be silent in the church; women are just property of men to submit and take it with a smile. Yes, we have certainly come a long way, but we have a long way to go yet. I have had countless numbers of women in my counseling office who have been through horrors that were encouraged by male counselors, male pastors and fathers.

I am a deep lover of Jesus, but I hate religion. It is all destructive apart from relationship. Jesus began to woo me to His heart by showing me in Scripture how good he was to women, in the midst of a culture that did not value women as they did men. What happens to a woman in a muslim nation who is found with a Christian Bible? Hmmm.

There are pioneering women in muslim countries, but give me a break. Some females, like in the West Bank, know nothing apart from the villiges they are raised in which devalue females as their worth is not appreciated. They don't even know there is another way to live: no idea!!

You judgemental ones who think you know how easy it should be for the women to rise up are talking from your head, but you have no experience to understand and empathize with the victims of these lands and laws.

If some of you put as much power into prayer for these women that you do in hate and judging them wrongly without understanding the fullness of what they are walking through, you might could change their world.

I, an American woman, have spoken with Muslim women who live their lives in complete fear, yes in the great USA. I have been in an Muslim country, stayed in a PA ruled area in Israel. I got lost in Isreal in the modern Muslim section of Jerusalem. I could cut the air with a knife and was praying hard for God to protect me, His daughter. A young Arab man who spoke fluent english walked right up to me and led me to where I needed to go: my Arab angel. Without God Almighty, these women don't stand a chance. WE can make a difference in their lives by showing open love, versus closed, my way or the highway, stupidity hatred.

I suspect some of you do not understand how hateful you sound. There is supposed to freedom of speech here, yet some of you shut down someone for speaking her mind, showing her courage, expereince, thoughts and feelings.

If you have no experience with this, just be quiet, please!"

After a quick read of this posting, I needed to respond.

As a Christian and a member of a very large church, I have never encountered any Christian fanatic at all. Most of the Christians I have meet have been for the most part among the nicest people I have gotten to meet. True, they can quote scripture, but also their lives have been a living homily about their lives have been changed by Christ. As a Christian woman, I have never been demeaned in any way, shape, or form by the Christian men I have encountered in my life. This includes a number of men who are in the position of being a pastor leaders of local churches or are fathers of daugthers. You have to realized that if you are a Christian as you have posted, we are all sinners in the eyes of God who need everyday to be converted unto Christ. True, there have been horrible incidents of sexual abuses; but in truth the numbers are not large and only a minority of those male pastors or fathers who have abused their servant leadership roles have done these great wrongs. It simply underscores the reality that the pastors and fathers ARE NOT GOD as the rest of us are not and we all need to convert everyday to Christ. The vast majority of pastors and fathers DO NOT REFLECT those who have done these great sexual wrongs.

True, Jesus in the Holy Bible always have treated women with the greatest love, respect, and honor. At the two great events of his life, his birth and resurection have been first witnessed by women, be it his mother Mary at his birth and by Mary Magalene and the other women at his resurection. These two signs testify to Jesus's high esteem to women.

Thanks to the power of high tech, such as the internet, satilite tv, and the cell phone, bridges are being built to the different cultures around the world starting with America and Americans. With this high tech at our fingertips, you do not even need to leave home to make a difference. Just even responding to you is an example of reaching out. Be happy that there are websites such as this one which has many threads that have excellent debate and discusssion on the issue of jihad and related issues. I do encourage posters not to be quiet but to post interesting comments. There should be more excellent websites like JW/DW. The more communications like this, the better in bringing change and making a difference.

lightinshadows

I state that unless one has hands on experience on a subject one can not debate a subject is just stupid and illogical. Just because i have not been to space does not preclude me talking about or forming an opinion about it.

Dictionary definition of 'bigot'. From dictionary.com

a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Thats Islam and its muslim spokespeople. There are a lot of bigots on the planet, Islam has a hugh share of them...The statement that 'only Allah is God' and slavishly insisting upon it, is the basis of Islamic bigotry...

"I am SO disgusted by what I have read in just the first half by a bunch of American idiots who have probably never been outside of American to know the truth of other cultures!! Newsflash: in our own country, there are still many Christian religious fanatics who use Scripture to say that women are to be silent in the church; women are just property of men to submit and take it with a smile. Yes, we have certainly come a long way, but we have a long way to go yet..."

and

"If you have no experience with this, just be quiet, please!"

posted by Lightinshadows above.

Lightinshadows,

Not everyone at this site is an American. There are regular posters here who are British, Italian, French, Greek, Russian, Indian, Maldivian, Israeli, Christian-Palestinian, Lebanese, Mexican, Malaysian, and Indonesian just to name a few who have identified their nationalities. It would appear that informed knowledge of other cultures is not lacking here. We have Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, neo-Pagans, Secular Humanists and Atheists. JW/DW posters are male and female, and both straight and gay. There is also a wide diversity of opinion here and our debates are often quite heated.

As for the Americans, do you beleive they have less a right to an opinion than anyone else, just because they haven't lived with Muslims? I have never committed a murder or lived under Naziism but I know that both murder and Naziism are evil.

However, I have lived in many countries and actually studied in a madrassa so I know Islam from the inside. Of course there are many sects of Islam and many individual Muslim opinions, but as a whole, Islam is an oppressive ideological system. There were also many sects of Communism (Stalinism, Trotskyites, Titoists, Maoists etc.) but every Communist country was still oppressive.

Provoslavni:
You are right. Everyone has the right to voice thier opinions. It's a new day (night). I don't even know what triggered me. The only thing I can think of that triggered me so is that ritamalik was speaking from her experience, and it is as if some did not listen to the whole of what she was saying and gave an opinion based soley on intellectual idealism, rather than facts and experience. Nonetheless, that is how it goes.

I am well aware of the fact people are on this site from all over the world; I've read longer than I've ever written. However, here I went and did what so many seem to do, and I related it to what I hear from men here in the US. Duh, I guess men all over the world think in similar ways when it comes to women, etc, etc.

Good job in correcting me.

Lightinshadows,

You're welcome. I also beleive that a few were unreasonably harsh on Rita Malik. Her erudite and well-reasoned posts show that she is exactly the type of person we should all be supporting.

In the anomynity of cyber-space, it is very easy to come off far more harsh and extreme than we mean too. I hope both of you will be regular posters here.