The Tiny Minority of Extremists doubles in size. "'4,000 terror suspects in UK,'" by John Steele in the Telegraph, with thanks to Davida:
Up to 4,000 terrorism suspects and their supporters are active in Britain, the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner Lord Stevens said yesterday.Lord Stevens said the security service MI5 had recently suggested a figure of 2,000 but the true number was "probably nearer 4,000".
Police and MI5 were "still too underfunded and undermanned to cope with the task they face in the decades to come. And that's how long this will last," he said.
The "infection" had spread out from "hot spots" such as Luton, the West Midlands and Finsbury Park in London and those involved in the fertiliser bomb plot case which finished this week were "ordinary and British".
And all Muslim, of course, and all committed to jihad against the infidel, but that is the unifying factor among them that Must Not Be Named.
Lord Stevens also gave warning that al-Qa'eda-linked extremists were already trying to infiltrate the police and the security services and that dozens had already been weeded out.He urged that known terrorism suspects and "hate clerics", such as Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada, should be deported, adding: "Our human rights come first. Yet, incredibly, our so-called Human Rights laws, and our enviable history of religious tolerance, mean that foreigners preaching death and destruction to our way of life are allowed to stay here because their own countries won't tolerate such evil."
"Our human rights come first. Yet, incredibly, our so-called Human Rights laws, and our enviable history of religious tolerance, mean that foreigners preaching death and destruction to our way of life are allowed to stay here because their own countries won't tolerate such evil."
Killed by kindness. Our politically correct human rights laws will be the death of us.
"He urged that known terrorism suspects and "hate clerics", such as Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada, should be deported, adding: "Our human rights come first."
...Absolutely!.....
Here's video from France
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/
The government refuses to see the dangers and continues on the path to appeasement, a few sound warnings in vain, some others actively work for the enemy and the majority yearn for peace and have no stomach for war.
It feels like the 1930's all over again.
What will be the event that finally causes the masses to wake to the trouble we're in? What will be our 'invasion of Poland'? the moment when the nation realises they have no choice but to fight?
Aren't the attacks of 7/7, the continuing arrests & court revelations of multiple plots enough to prove there is a 5th column within Britain? large enough to cause serious damage to the economy, let alone life and liberty.
As posted in another thread, the Govt needs a quick read up on their own history regarding how to deal with insurgents. And they need to be thinking about using the military to address the problem as the police and MI5 alone are clearly unable to deal with the scale of the problem.
2,000 a few days ago, 4,000 "suspected jihadists" today. In truth, the outer limit is that established by the number of Muslims. For there is no ambiguity about the duty of Jihad to spread Islam: it is not tangential, but central, to the Faith. It is not a matter of spiritual wrestling, pace assorted armstrongs and espositos, but a matter of removing all the obstacles -- armed conflict, laws, local customs -- that might stand in the way of the spread of Islam until it spreads, as it must spread, as by right it should spread, as all Muslims have a duty to help it spread -- across the globe, until "Islam dominates" everywhere for "Islam is not to be dominated." And in Islam, you see, the very idea of pluralism is absurd, even if Muslims in the West will exploit the tolerance of Western societies, of that same pluralism, to secure their position, and to grow, and grow, until such time as they need no longer pretend to believe in pluralism. In Islam, not Islam which will be one among many religions or faiths or, as in the case of Islam, Total Belief-Systems, that will co-exist as equals, but one which will triumph and dominate, and the Believers, that is the Believers in Islam, will -- as is right, as is just -- rule, and will allow non-Muslims, if they scrupulously fulfill the many political, financial, and social duties demanded of them as dhimmis, may escape forced conversion to Islam or death, by resigning themselves to lives of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity that have been, with minor local variations depending on local rulers (some were harsher, some more benign) and conditions (since the 19th century, when Western powers began to put pressure on Muslims, they were forced, for a while, to treat their non-Muslim minorities slightly better than the Shari'a ever contemplated, but as Western power has either receded or Western governments been wrongly fearful of applying pressure, the condition of non-Muslims in Sudan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, all over the Middle East and North Africa, has worsened.
No one can identify those Muslims who take the duty of Jihad seriously. Furthermore, the statement above uses the word "Jihadist" to refer only to those who engage, or are known as being likely to engage, in acts of terrorism within Great Britain. How many are likely to engage in acts of terrorism outside of Great Britain? How many are likely to think that the best way they can support the Jihad is to spread Islam, to conduct careful campaigns to threaten and silence all critics, or to inveigle the economically and psychically marginal? How many conduct Jihad by having families, often on the Infidel dole, of a half-dozen or dozen children, sometimes with more than one wife, despite the laws in Great Britain against polygamy?
All those who use or contribute to the other weapons of Jihad -- the money weapon (which pays for mosqes, madrasas, public relations campaigns, armies of Western hirelings, including but not limited to former diplomats and intelligence agents, journalists, businessmen angling for dangling contracts, public relations specialists, and propagandists of all kinds) -- are also Jihadists.
What are their numbers? If there are 1.8 million Muslims in Great Britain, then their numbers are, potentially, 1.8 million. I think the real number might be less -- perhaps only 1.5 million of them can be accurately described as Jihadists.
Is that enough to worry you? Is that enough to make you wish to end all Muslim migration to the Lands of the Infidels, and to reverse the growth in the Muslim presence within those lands, purely as an act of civilizational survival, of being unwilling to part, quite so readily, with the legal and political institutions, and the enterprises of science and art, which are so discouraged, or so limited, by the texts, and attitudes of Islam?
Try to think, out of the tens of thousands of names of writers, painters, sculptors, musicians, philosophers, in the Western world, of more than a half-dozen who might have been produced by, who could have existed for one minute in, societies suffused with Islam? Certainly not Leonardo or Shakespeare. I can only think, at this point, of someone on the level of deliberate geometic lifelessnessof M. C. Escher, or possibly some color field theorist with his strips and stribes and daubs. That's about it.
What is it with the Brits that they can't get their sums right? A couple of years ago it was-only 200 extremists,no need to panic...Above all else NEVER MENTION THE RELIGION THAT PC DHIMMIS DARE NOT NAME.
Lord Stevens has DOUBLED THE NUMBER of Jihadists
but he like the rest of Politically Correct Establishment are burying their heads in sand-truth is far too terrifying-that there is least a half a million Muslims out there either supporting or too frightened themselves to dob in
potential suicide bombers among the Faithful.
Blair's New Labour haven't a clue exactly how many illegal Immigrants are overloading Old Blighty-they use spin & prepared propaganda to explain & lie their way out of a tight corner of
no return-look at streets of main cities & you might imagine half population of Pakistan has settled there.[Indeed we can't be sure they're not including Dustbin Laden who'd only have to shave off his beard and dress in Western clothes
to obtain entry to New Labour's Utopia For Muslims.]
We can be THANKFUL for strong Leaders such as Merkel & now Sarkozy but in Britain situation is
DESPERATE.
Never has England needed a hero in the likeness of Afred the Great,Arthur or Hereward the Wake or
an English version of Jeanne d'Arc...SOMEONE PLEASE SAVE BRITAIN!!
Re: weeding out Al Quaeda-have they got rid of Jihadi at Home Office yet? No. They're still fighting the Multicultural Lobby To Promote Human Rights & Racial Harmony. Makes one want to puke,eh.
Ah, the joys of Islamic immigration.
From Cat Stevens to Sir Iqbal Socranie - aint multiculturalism wonderful ?
The only good news is those great crime shows coming out of the Beeb might get a boost through new subject matter, if it is allowed as being politically correct.
According to the latest issue of the Economist magazine, the Brits require "dozens" of people to monitor one terror suspect 24/7. The Economist also said that in two months, the Brits had to expend more than 30,000 man-hours just to follow one plot involving relatively few would-be terrorists. That's the equivalent of more than 200 people working full time for two months, just to nail down a small group. How are the Brits going to cover 4,000 would-be terrorists?
Now the recent estimate of 2000 is moved "closer to" 4,000 terrorists that need to be monitored, but will Europeans stop immigration from Muslim lands? By 2025, under current trends, the Muslim population will likely have doubled, possibly even tripled, according to the National Intelligence Council. So then is Britain prepared to monitor 8,000 or 12,000 terrorists by 2025? At this rate London won't be there to monitor, God forbid.
But immigration from Muslim lands mustn't stop, oh no, Europe must have workers. Uh, how about from Eastern Europe? From non-Muslim parts of Africa? From China?
The notion that this rising flood of terror is due to the Iraq war is a false one. Muslims are engaged in terror all around the globe, and always find a local pretext. The simple truth is that large numbers of them are simply following "Allah's" commands in the Koran and Hadith to spread Islamic law by force and persuasion around the globe. Islamic law and tradition do not directly sanction forced conversion of non-Muslims to Islam. Instead, the Islamic tradition gives Jews and Christians three choices: 1) convert to Islam, or 2) submit to Muslims and become second-class citizens subject to all kinds of disabilities under Islamic law, or 3) be warred on by Muslims. Apart from Christians and Jews, sometimes other non-Muslims are also offered the three choices. But sometimes, they only get two: 1) convert to Islam, or 2) be warred on by Muslims. Europe must wake up, and more quickly.
Europe could even save itself without abandoning the multicultural ideal: in the name of diversity Europe could increase immigration from non-Muslim lands and decrease it from Muslim ones. Politically, that might be the easiest way to make a change in policy so as to diminish the growing Islamic threat to Europe.
Made an error in my calculation above. 30,000 man hours over two months does not mean about 200 people working full time for two months. Closer to 100 people.
www.bengalvoice.com
4000 Jihadists? sounds like a concervative number, i'm sure it's even higher. Thuis Ideology infects and spreads among the minions of MO like a wildfire. we need to stamp out that fire at all costs. we need to have the same resolve as them. in fact if we did this war would be over already .
we simply don't have the guts to accept what we face as real.
If the Brits are so sucker-headed about Muslims at least the USA ought to be smart enough as to require Visas for British Muslims traveling to America. Yes, this is discrimination but this is a new world forced on us by the Muslims themselves. Remember that Muslims discriminate against all non-Muslms as a matter of their religion:
098.006
YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
Should we trust those whose god tells them we are "the worst of creatures"?
Here's a fun suggestion:
Rent 28 Days Later and think of those infected with the 'Rage' virus as the British Jihadi movement.
Allegorical and pedagogical at the same time.
"There is no dark side of the moon -- really. As a matter of fact it's all dark."
"How many are likely to think that the best way they can support the Jihad is to spread Islam, to conduct careful campaigns to threaten and silence all critics, or to inveigle the economically and psychically marginal?"
Exactly. It's not just about "the violence." The banning of the PBS film suggests that the level of infiltration is much greater than what most westerners are willing to imagine. What other items are we not seeing thanks to PCers?
There's also the "projection" going on...So how many times do we need to hear about (this lie) "Islam has been hijacked by a tiny minority." It's almost laughable, particularly when one considers that perhaps it's not Islam that's been "hi-jacked" but Western civilization. We are being hi-jacked by religious, 7th century thugs.
I read a column (written by a person I usually agree with) the other day. And it was appalling. Yet another person caves-in, claiming that 99.9 percent of Muslims are all just wonderful. I wonder if this person has ever turned on a television set and seen what's going on in Iraq. And then the abject lies -- yeah, Pakistan, that wondrously pacifist state, just like Canada, no doubt, so bursting at the seams with feminists and anti-war types. It shouldn't require a trained hsitorian to read about Pakistan's history and discover that "peace, love, and good governance" has never been (nor ever will be) Pakistan's motto or its guiding principles. (Also apparently, the columnist has never watched the "Dill, Dill Pakistan" program on Vision TV -- the program opens and ends with displays of the Pakistani military -- the parades and missiles launched...they also superimpose Pakistani music over quintessential scenes of Canada..pictures of Banff, Alberta and dolphins in Vancouver harbour seen to the strains of a Pakistani song.)
Sometimes, I really do despair. Because a columnist meets a single Pakistani "feminist" -- then, instantly Islam is transformed into "A religion of Peace." Yeah, sure. Just more lies spread so as to blind us, to disarm us.
J.S. -
Could you please tell me the name of the columnist? I'd like to respond to the 99.9 with my 330-word "Moderate Unicorns"
Thank you.
No more visa exemptions. And I don't just mean for British Muslims, but for all Britons, as well as the other exempt countries. If we just single out Arabs and Pakistanis, black and white converts can slip through. Sad, but there's no other way to do this. I guess we have no choice but to require visas. And people hate this country anyway so it wouldn't matter if we still had visa exemptions. We have to do the right thing.
I had thrown away the newspaper and I was quoting from memory -- about the percentages of "extremists". I had recalled reading an Islamist (head of some Canadian Muslim organization) many years ago stating that the extremists were far less than one percent...(i can't recall that figure either, i think it was .003 ? or something like that). Anyway, went on the Internet, found the article, and there's a correction I need to make. The author spoke about the "one percent" of Muslims who are "extremists." That's what he claimed, not 99.9 percent, but 1 percent.
You can read the column (ah, yes, Pakistan "the pure"), here's the home page
http://www.georgejonas.ca/index.cfm
On the left there's a list of links, choose "journalism" then go to the article about a "jihadi in my soup." Generally speaking, I like the author -- except for this article (far too deep the concessions).
Mr. Jonas has no contact address for email at his site unfortunately.
After the title to each of Jonas's articles, there's a "comment" link. Currently, this link doesn't seem to be working (404 error is returned.) He probably receives an excessive amount of e-mail...both from pro and anti Jihadists.
I once read a text regarding rationality and irrationality, and how human beings can be lead astray. One way is to place inordinate emphasis on an occurrence which is salient, but not necessarily representational. This argument is used over and over again by the pro-Jihadists.
Interestingly, in the case of Jonas, it's probably just the opposite. That is, there's one (mark that "extremely salient") "feminist" of Pakistani origins, and bingo -- you get 99 percent of Muslims as pacifists. (Another contradiction in Jonas' thinking, btw, is that if the Muslim feminist is run-of-the-mill or representative of most Muslims, then that doesn't make an Islamic feminist at all heroic or exceptional -- it makes her merely "ordinary" -- which, I believe, is highly insulting and inaccurate.)
All the evidence (in terms of stats and polls) point to "extremists" being far from a tiny, tiny "minority" (or one percent) in Canada, rather, you get double digit figures when polling for "support for terrorist attacks", "hatred of Jews," (seriously, how many don't hate Jews? .003 percent? that's the real and true "tiny, tiny minority"), support for Sharia law (after the London bombings the National Post published a poll on the number of Canadian Muslims who wanted Sharia law, it was extremely high, in the double digits); etc. etc.
The situation becomes even worse when one considers the number of pro-Jihadist elites -- here I would include not just the Muslim university profs, and sociologists, and revisionist "historians", and journalists, and Sharia law "experts" -- but all those non-Muslim supporters -- the Anglicans, the Pacifists, the Socialists, etc. There's currently a Marxist meeting taking place in Toronto, a 4 day event, which melds the Muslim extremists and their left-wing, Marxist supporters. They form a menacing lobby in Canada.
deport those 4000, and their families, friends and any muslim that has come into contact with these people.
Last week MI5 quoted a figure of 2000, and now Stevens quotes a figure of 4000.
So what is the real figure? I go along with a man who should know - the ex-secretary general of the MCB, who quoted a figure of 2 million Jihadi terrorists, ready and willing to die for allah and the P. M. Prophet.
Posted by wrathofasma : No more visa exemptions. And I don't just mean for British Muslims, but for all Britons, as well as the other exempt countries. If we just single out Arabs and Pakistanis, black and white converts can slip through.
Yes please. And I would like Australia, Canada and NZ, also require visas from all British citizens and those resident in Britain. If this happens, it might just wake us up.
"ordinary and British"
yes, that is us, we don't talk about the weather nowadays, fertiliser bombs are just the thing to start casual conversation off with a bang....
Lord Stevens was, so some people say, pushed out because he would not tow the government line on the extent of terrorism in Britain, and replaced by Sir Ian Blair, who tried to until it became painfully obvious that the government line was seriously wrong.
it is nice that Lord Stevens seems to be speaking freely and honestly, but British ? no, those convicted in the fertiliser bomb plot are only British in the same way as i am a concert pianist (and Nora the cat plays much better than me....).