Every single "Mosque Outreach" evening friends of mine have attended, and taken notes on, around the country, always ends with some pita and chicken and then something baklavish. All very good. The whole thing is down to a science. Muslim websites, carefully instructing Muslims in how to woo and win over teachers and administrators at their children's schools (to obtain even in public schools quite exaggerated "accommodation" for the exercise, on sight, of Islam) talk about being sure to invite them for meals, and even what kinds of things to serve.
It's like the emphasis on Ramadan -- the kind of thing that always forms the deceptive center of any "presentation" of Islam. The rituals of Shehada, zakat, salat, Ramadan, and hajj -- but never a word about Asma bint Marwan, Aisha, or the more than one-hundred blood-curdling Jihad verses in the Qur'an, or the even more menacing hadith.
Who has gone to enough of these "Muslim-Christian" and "Muslim-Jewish" Dialogue things to send in recipes, so that the "Dhimmi Cookbook" can be compiled and put up on the Internet? You know, what spices were in that chicken that was so delicious you forgot all about asking why Sura 9.29 says what it does, or what the effect of the doctrine of abrogation is? And that honeyed pastry -- how exactly did they make it so flaky that you neglected to ask about why the name Osama has become, in the Muslim countries, since 9/11/2001 the most popular boy's name?
And...well, you get the idea. The next time you happen to attend one of those Open Houses offered by a smiling imam, and the handful of congregants willing to show up, as Potemkin worshippers, to endure having to welcome some awful Infidel visitors, in order to present an evening of taqiyya/kitman (and at the end of the evening, a very tasty Pakistani buffet, with chicken and rice, is waiting in the next room) -- well, when the routine goes into the "we are all Abrahamic faiths, we are all share a belief in Monotheism" someone must really interject: "Yes, Tawhid. But in Islam's case, Tawhid and Jihad. And that is the problem."
Do go. Check out the bathrooms with the watering-cans, stuff the "Free Palestine" and "Kashmir" and other booklets into your pockets, carefully note (bring a concealed little camera and tape-recorder) everything with great interest, and enjoy the spicy chicken and the honeyed dessert. Listen carefully to the spiel; take notes. Bring friends and distribute yourselves throughout the audience. Ask a few questions: about the Hadith, about the Sira. Ask about Aisha, about Asma bint Marwan, Abu Afak, the Khaybar Oasis. Ask about 9.29 and 9.5. Hell, just bring a whole list of Jihad passages and a half-dozen hadith, and read them with a furrowed brow, expressive of "gosh darn it, I have a problem with some of this stuff" -- and make sure your friends do exactly the same thing. Keep it up.
Ruin the evening. Ruin all such evenings. But be sweet, be polite, be innocent. Make it work for you. And then make sure you discuss with other attendees -- the real naifs -- what you have learned. Oh, if you want, bring a book or two just to quote from it. How about one by Spencer?
Do go. A good time will be had by all. The general consternation, head-turning and so forth, will be most salutary.
But this most likely won’t happen. The people are too nice, too smiling, too obviously gentle and sincere. And the food is just too delicious.
Recipes, recipes. There is now being planned a Dhimmi Bake-off, based on recipes compiled by those who have gone to five or more such "dialogues" held at Mosques. Recipes may be sent in to Jihad Watch. They will in turn be sent on to the Judges who will decide whether or not these would-be dhimmis have correctly identified the ingredients in the "secret recipes" of these Dhimmi-Night-at-the-Mosque-or-Student-Muslim-Association Affairs.
Try your luck. Just attend a few such "dialogues" or "outreach" sessions. Be sure to help yourself to the delicious food. Then, as best you can, write down what you think the recipe was.
No need to actually cook the item. Simply send in that recipe to us, and we will forward it to the Panel of Judges of the Protected Peoples.
Judges include, for this first year, Sheik Al-Qaradawi, Khaled Abou el Fadl, Leila Abu-Lughod, Fatima Mernissi, and Leila Khaled, who will decide which recipes come close enough to the real one.
I'm almost tempted to go to one of those things. I'm in Chicago, so they should be easy to find.
Has anyone who has attended such a thing raised the serious questions? Has this ever resulted in that person being assaulted?
how gutsy can one be ?
"...ask about why the name Osama has become, in the Muslim countries, since 9/11/2001 the most popular boy's name?"
Excellent Question! Very telling indeed.
Great Post (as usual).
I would like to attend one of those "interfaith" meetings just to inconvenience the deceitful Muslims and humiliate them by asking about Aisha; Banu Quraiza; how binding a hudna is on Muslims; what are hyopcrites and how will they be punished by Allah; Mohamet's illiteracy and self-admission he was possessed; why he murdered his scribe; sanction for slave-trading in Islam; what is the meaning of dar al harb and is the U.S. considered part of it; and do they really believe that the versions of the Bible used by Jews and Christians are perversions of the Qur'an which supposedly preceded them? Finally, if indeed there is a "Palestinian" people, why is there no mention of such a nation in the Bible or in the Qur'an?
They'll probably escort me out of the mosque after the first question and give me a baklava for the road...
This sounds like a job for the Minnesotist Group for Hotdish and Combat (formerly Lutherans)
I wonder if they have these outreaches in Somaliapolis?
I have been to many dawah presentations but never stay for the food which I don't like.
I have brought up sharia law vs our constitution:
'oh yes we have our laws but those things that aren't legal in this country like polygamy we don't practice.' (answer paraphased)
I asked the taqiyya spouting Dr. Ibrahim Mousa why he thinks I should believe the koran is such a beautiful book when it calls for my death. I compared islam to a buffet with many different kinds of foods including some that are bad for you and make you spiritually ill.
The times that stand out were when death for apostates was mentioned and the dawah rep ended up shouting at the man who asked him and the audience of lefty multiculturals was shocked. And when a pakistani jihadi spoke at a local college and disgusted many by his treatment of the elderly mild mannered Buddhist on the interfaith panel.
but the time I remember best and will never forget is six months after 9/11 when the muslim brotherhood dawah rep told the three ministers he wouldn't pray with them in the church and then told us the truth. He said that islam is a complete way of life, social, religious and political. It is superior to any other system in the world and for that reason should dominate the world. After his talk, a six foot tall woman in a black burka spoke about how her new faith had liberated her. I wondered if she was liberated enough to wear the polyester black bag in the dog days of August of 98 degrees, 80 percent humidity.
Da’wa takes other forms too. A few years ago I read an article by a reporter who was writing in a small California newspaper and just gushing, telling her readers about the wonderful talk about his life and his religion that a Palestinian had recently given at the local library. It’s been a few years now but her article went something like this:
It had been a very nice affair, the very polite gentlemen—to read her prose, a fascinating and exotic figure--who just happened to be a local government “anti-discrimination officer” or such, told of an almost idyllic childhood in a neighborhood in “Palestine”; all sweetness and light and about the commonalities of Islam and Christianity, etc. etc.
I emailed the reporter and pointed out to her that the Palestinian’s portrayal of and answers to questions about Islam—“a religion of peace” and woefully misunderstood ,too, Jews—where he lived was a mostly Christian neighborhood and he never saw any Jews, were all either evasions or generalities. I also pointed out certain facts about Islam and about the Palestinians and their relationship to Jews. She emailed me back, disturbed by the questions I was asking and plaintively saying that she was just a part-time small town newspaper reporter; I gathered that she was of a certain age and that Mr. Palestinian had fixed her attention like a snake charmer.
I wonder how many uninformed, gullible and way too polite people in American have already been given the old Takiyya and Kitman routine in such settings all over the country.
perhaps the truth about Asma Bint Marwan is not simply "Mo killed a poet who was making fun of him" story. The following site (although disapproving the murder) states that the woman's "poem" was an incitement to murder Mohammed:
http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/2006/02/speaking-of-muhammads-image.html
I've not read the piece carefully and am no scholar. Perhaps the moral of the story is that we should follow Mo's lead in the sense of taking strong action against early threats -- in our case, the threat posed by Islam in the West.
Hugh,
I agree with your advice about attending events like this, but I prefer a more subtle approach. In my dealings with the Ummah, I take a page out of the da'wah playbook: Smile, feign ignorance, ask some softball questions for which I already know the fake and real answers, and build to some questions that provoke serious squirming.
"perhaps the truth about Asma Bint Marwan is not simply 'Mo killed a poet who was making fun of him' story."
Consider how Jesus of Nazareth handled such issues, and it will all become clear again.
Am I being paranoid to say that anyone who attends these outreach (read deception) events & poses a question that reveals their skepticism or outright hostility toward islam should take precautions to ensure that their identity cannot be determined? I'm thinking: not leaving your business card or phone #, & even going so far as to park several blocks away from the mosque to ensure that your license plate # can't be jotted down or that you can't be followed home.
Tell you what though, their attempts at winning kafurs' "hearts and minds" are prooving darn site more successful than what the UK troops are engaged in achieving in Basra.
"to ensure that your license plate # can't be jotted down or that you can't be followed home."
Yes, and know the concealed carry laws in your state to prepare for that lonely walk in the dark back to the car.
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2006/11/court-grants-churches-exemption-from.html
sheik yer booty has a valid point -- Be careful. Sometimes the survellance is very subtle.
After years of visits to my doctor's office I learned that local Islamic center is, and has been located in the same set of small office buildings, each separated only by a dozen feet. Remarkably there is no sign, only discreet lettering on the door. A surveillance camera keeps track of cars and individuals entering the parking area.
It is surely good to be careful. Not unfrequently those modern, peaceful muslims who feign interest in open-mindedness and interfaith dialogue turn out to be really aggressive and intolerant when you show you can't be easily fooled.
I have experienced this myself a couple of times. You end up being accused of being "divisive", "racist" and " an extreme right-winger" (Mostly for making "racist" statements such as "democracy is not rooted in Islam")
It is surely good to be careful. Not unfrequently those modern, peaceful muslims who feign interest in open-mindedness and interfaith dialogue turn out to be really aggressive and intolerant when you show you can't be easily fooled.
I have experienced this myself a couple of times. You end up being accused of being "divisive", "racist" and " an extreme right-winger" (Mostly for making "racist" statements such as "democracy is not rooted in Islam")
Just adding to Hugh's little list of 'things to do' when you visit the Mosque or Islamic Centre: if you see a book-case or a noticeboard, use your eyes.
Last Sunday my husband and I visited a mosque Open Day. They were a reasonably small outfit. Their prayer hall contained a book-case. As I do when I visit ANYBODY at all, ever, I strolled gently over and had a peek at the titles. Mostly Qurans. But: one of the volumes was Ibn Kathir. It wouldn't have meant a thing to me if I'd seen it six months ago. But I've read Spencer and I know who Ibn Kathir was and what he said about Surah 9.
So: make sure you know the names of the 'interesting' theologians, ancient and modern, from Ibn Kathir to Sayyid Qutb - and keep your eyes open for their presence...
Also be prepared for gross obfuscation. At a recent forum on faith and terrorism entitled "Conflict or Common Ground?" at which Jewish, Christian and Muslim representatives spoke, I approached the latter after the presentations, Quran in hand, and besought him to explain to me how his conciliatory words squared with 9:29. His reply, as best I can remember it, was that this verse was about fighting pagans and that Muslims respect the People of the Book. He then wandered away, leaving me aghast at his flagrant evasion -- for, of course, 9:29 specifically enjoins Muslims to fight against the People of the Book "until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued."
All of which merely hardened my conviction that these creatures can't be trusted any farther than one can spit.
StillBreathing,
I'm not sure who claimed that Asma bint Marwan was killed for simply making fun of Muhammad, but there are some problems in your source.
Let me make a few points.
First, the statements of Asma occurred not only in within the larger context of Muhammad and his Muslims' having declared war against all humankind, their mass slaughters, mass rapes, slave-taking, plunders, torture, and so on, but also were made in very specific reference to Muhammad's assassination of Abu Afak, an elderly man who had, himself, merely made fun of Muhammad.
Second, let's look at the quote and source of the quote from the site to which you linked:
Quote:
"F**ked men of Malik and of Nabit
And of 'Awf, f**ked men of Khazraj:
You obey a stranger who does not belong among you ....
Do you, when your own chiefs have been murdered, put your hope in him
Like men greedy for meal soup when it is cooking?
Is there no man of honour who will take advantage of an unguarded moment
And cut off [Mohammad]?"
Then your cited author writes:
"My source was Maxime Rodinson, Muhammad (New York: Pantheon Books, 1971), 158–159. Rodinson is quoting from Ibn Hisham, Sira, Das Leben Muhammeds, edited by F. Wüstenfeld (Göttingen, 1859/60), 995 (see: Rodinson, Muhammad, 318, n. 2; 321, n. 6). Ibn Hisham was a student of the Muslim historian Ibn Is'haq, who died about 768. Ibn Hisham published his teacher's biography of Muhammad, which became a classic among Muslim histories (Rodinson, Muhammad, 336). For the specific footnotes to my passage, go to Hanshin website linked to above."
Yes, I also came across that second-hand quote (with the f-word) in Judith Miller's "God has Ninety-Nine Names." However, I also have Ishaq's Sira The Life of Muhammad (Guillaume's translation, p. 675-676), and it does not use the word "F**ked" (which as we know is a highly emotionally-charged yet imprecise word in English). That translation appears to be an attempt to make Asma bint Marwan's statements, and Asma bint Marwan, seem somehow immoral or inappropriate. Anyways, I'm no expert on Arabic, but the translation "F**ked" sounds a little far-fetched. Guillaume uses the word "despise," which sounds, to me, more credible, sensible, and accurate in the context.
Here is the quote, from Ibn Ishaq (Guillaume's translation) with the assassination of Abu Afak first (which itself was a comment on yet another prior killing!), to provide the context:
[Ishaq, p. 675.
Regarding the assassination of the elderly man, Abu Afak]:
"Abu Afak showed his disaffection when the apostle killed al-Harith b. Suwayd b. Samit and said:
'Long have I lived but never have I seen
An assembly or collection of people
More faithful to their undertaking
And their allies when called upon
Than the sons of Qayla(2) when they assembled,
Men who overthrew mountains and never submitted.
A rider who came to them split them in two (saying)
'Permitted', 'Forbidden'(3) and all sorts of things.
Had you believed in glory or kingship
You would have followed Tubba'.(4)' "
[Guillaume's notes:
(2) "Qayla was the putative ancestress of Aus and Khazraj."
(3). "A gibe at the language of the Quran."
(4). "i.e., You resisted Tubba' who, after all, was a king in fact and a man of great reputation, so why believe in Muhammad's claims?"]
Ishaq, p. 675, (Assassination of Afak, continued)
"The apostle said, 'Who will deal with this rascal for me?' whereupon Salim b. 'Umayr, brother of B. 'Amr b. 'Auf one of the 'weepers', went forth and killed him. Umama b. Muzayriya said concern that:
'You [referring to Afak] gave lie to God's religion and the man Ahmad!
By him who is your father, evil is the son he produced!
A hanif gave you a thrust in the night saying
'Take that Abu 'Afak in spite of your age!'
Though I never knew whether it was man or jinn
Who slew you in the dead of night (I would say naught).' "
[brackets added]
[Ishaq, p. 675-676. Regarding Asma bint Marwan, who was also assassinated]:
"When Abu Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection...Blaming Islam and its followers she said:
‘I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit
And 'Auf and B. al-Khazraj.
You obey a stranger who is none of yours,
One not of Murad or Madhhij.*
Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs
Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?
Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise
And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?"
Ishaq, p. 676, continued.
"When the apostle heard what she said he said, 'Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?' 'Umayr b. 'Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he said, 'You have helped God and his apostle, O 'Umayr!' When he asked if he would bear any evil consequences the apostle said, 'Two goats won't butt their heads about her,' so 'Umayr went back to his people."
"Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of Bint Marwan. She had five sons, and when 'Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, 'I have killed Bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting.' That was the first day that Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was 'Umayr b. 'Adiy who was called 'the Reader', and 'Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam."
* "Two tribes of Yamani origin."
Third, in light of the above points, quotes, and context, Asma bint Marwan was totally justified in expressing her frustration and asking for Muhammad's death. This is quite a common and normal feeling of anger, just like someone asking for Osama bin Laden's death today. I would go further and say that it would have been morally irresponsible not to propose either the killing or life-long banishment or imprisonment of Muhammad, given the context. In hindsight, had Muhammad been killed, we (humanity) possibly could have saved hundreds of millions of lives, and could have spared billions of people from the enormous cost and hassle that is Islam today.
Sam Shamoun has discussed the assassinations of Abu Afak and Asma bint Marwan, http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Menj/asma_afak1.htm http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Menj/asma_afak2.htm, addressing the apologetic claims that have been made to deny those accounts.
Of course, as with much of the alleged history of Islam, much of it may be untrue, fictionalized, biased to make Islam look good (it is almost all told by Muslim sources), and the story of Asma bint Marwan may be no exception.
That said, the ahadith calling for the execution, or other harsh penalties, of anyone who insults Muhammad and Islam are considered valid by mainstream Islam and, as we know, are implemented in many Islamic countries. Moreover, the reality is that the non-Muslim public practically everywhere on earth is subject to the Islamic blasphemy penalty (e.g., Muhammad cartoon incidents, etc.), and 68%-78% of Muslims in Britain for example believe that people should be criminally prosecuted and punished for insulting Islam or Muhammad.
Note that many mosques & muslim events retain thugs (suprise suprise) that will attempt to intimidate, vidio tape you, write down your license number, etc. Been there, be careful.
Khaybar Oasis, thanks much for the background.
It is slightly outrageous that I'd don't give money to support this amazing site.
"It is slightly outrageous that [I] don't give money to support this amazing site."
There is a "Donate" link in the left column on the http://jihadwatch.org/ page, or for large amounts (or to avoid the transaction fees) contact Robert for arrangements. It feels good, you should try it.
Is there any article that substantiates Hugh's statement that Osama is the most popular name in muslim countries for newborn boys?
It would not surprise me in the least if it was, but I wil need some sort of evidence if I am to use this when arguing against muslims on other websites.
If anyone can help, I would be grateful.
Vince asked
Plenty gutsy . . .see this video posted at youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJweJ02Ar0c
The slight difference is that this particular dawa session took place in a public library . . .providing the opportunity to re-establish the boundaries of this conversation.
This Friday, I hear there's going to be some big parades in major Canadian cities (reminds me of the Orange-man marches), and all (including Infidels/Dhimmis) are invited to go on the marches...it's Mo's birthday. I have heard, though, that the Islamists don't like such celebrations (too much a copy of the Christians at Christmas time).