Here is another manifestation of the unfortunate fact that the public debate revolves around only the Manichaean choices of quixotic and futile Wilsonianism or surrender and appeasement. The third alternative would be a realistic and carefully planned program to resist the jihad itself, working to hinder Iran's empire building and any other initiative that strengthened jihadist activity vis-a-vis infidels. But that is on no one's radar screen.
By Simon Tisdall in The Guardian (thanks to Lame Cherry):
Iran is secretly forging ties with al-Qaida elements and Sunni Arab militias in Iraq in preparation for a summer showdown with coalition forces intended to tip a wavering US Congress into voting for full military withdrawal, US officials say."Iran is fighting a proxy war in Iraq and it's a very dangerous course for them to be following. They are already committing daily acts of war against US and British forces," a senior US official in Baghdad warned. "They [Iran] are behind a lot of high-profile attacks meant to undermine US will and British will, such as the rocket attacks on Basra palace and the Green Zone [in Baghdad]. The attacks are directed by the Revolutionary Guard who are connected right to the top [of the Iranian government]."
The official said US commanders were bracing for a nationwide, Iranian-orchestrated summer offensive, linking al-Qaida and Sunni insurgents to Tehran's Shia militia allies, that Iran hoped would trigger a political mutiny in Washington and a US retreat. "We expect that al-Qaida and Iran will both attempt to increase the propaganda and increase the violence prior to Petraeus's report in September [when the US commander General David Petraeus will report to Congress on President George Bush's controversial, six-month security "surge" of 30,000 troop reinforcements]," the official said....
Re General Petraeus: "Petraeus and PC-policy-making," by Diana West:
"This fight depends on securing the population, which must understand that we — not our enemies — occupy the moral high ground." -- Gen. David Petraeus, May 10Oh, they must, must they?
With his single sentence, Gen. David Petraeus reveals what's wrong with our Iraq policy. Success depends not on our own actions, but on a politically correct expectation of how Iraqis will react to those actions. It seems that victory depends on something over which we have no control — the point of view and behavior of people in Iraq.
Consider the "surge." Even if our troops achieve the goal of "securing the population" by securing Baghdad, success still rides on subsequent Iraqi behavior: whether murderously competing Iraqi sects decide to come together and sing "Kumbayah" — what you might call a big "whether."
Somehow, I'm practically alone among conservatives in believing this to be a dangerously ill-conceived policy (Surrender-crats aren't worth discussing here), and I think I know why. The Iraq policy itself is an outgrowth of another dangerously ill-conceived policy of our leaders to avoid any rational assessment of the Islamic culture that informs the point of view and behavior of people across the Fertile Crescent in the first place.
In other words, most people with even an elemental understanding of institutional Islamic antipathies toward non-Muslims and non-Muslim culture would balk at spending blood and treasure for Gen. Petraeus' "hearts and minds" strategy. Such a criterion, sadly, disqualifies our deeply Islam-challenged elites, all of whom seem to have missed the fact that "moral high ground" in Islam makes room for suicide-bombing terrorists. No wonder our guys are having trouble.
Read it all.
More on hearts and minds futility here.
No surprise at all.
TET offensive, anyone?
"This fight demands on securing the population,which must understand that we-not our enemies-coccupy the moral high ground."Gen. Petraeus.
DUMBER & DUMBER. Throughout History Occupying Armies have been regarded as TARGET for all malcontents and opposition. Since most U.S & British soldiers DON'T speak the lingo-how the hell would you know what your interpreter[maybe recruited from Al Quaeda or one of the Militias]
was telling YOU or Iraqis??
At least in Saddam's time ,average Iraqi got more hours of electricity,also Al Quaeda was too
frightened of Saddam's Torture Methods to venture far into Iraq.
Although Bush has 'spindoctored' any news about
Civil War there & forbidden photos of American troops returning in Body Bags-it is impossible to hide the TRUTH forever.Iraq is a worse Defeat than Vietnam.
It is only a matter of time before U.S Infidels are forced out-maybe Gen. Petraeus & His Boys can
make a last stand on moral high ground of $592 Million Embassy in Iraq?? IF IT GETS BUILT IN TIME...
Morgane,
You said
"Iraq is a worse Defeat than Vietnam.
It is only a matter of time before U.S Infidels are forced out"
I respectfully beg to differ. I don't think that iraq is a defeat. I think that we won when we captured saddam and secured his chemical weapons. I also think that the allied forces are not fighting a war in iraq, they are merely playing the role of security forces, i.e., they are acting as policemen. The troops have orders to differentiate between civilians and militias but with islam, there is no difference between the two. Their hands are tied. If they had the order to bring the situation under control, peace shall reign in that area within a week. But the MSM will then show us footage of "killed civilians" and "atrocities committed by soldiers". This same MSM will not carry news of soldiers tortured to death.
I think we won a long time back and the time to come home was yesterday. No point in trying to win hearts and minds. No point in policing their country for them.
Bigger defeat than Vietnam? The US were not defeated militarily but by a combination of cleverly orchestrated political machinations by the enemy using people such as Jane Fonda and John Kerry, (do you think he wrote his famous anti-war speech himself?)The self-loathing liberals and MSM put the final nails in the coffin.
The only way the coalition CAN win however in Iraq is to take action against Iranian support and direct Iranian activities by:
1. Funding, supplying and supporting dissidents within Iran.
2. Attacking Iranian oil and military installations. Capture or even better, destroy the Kharg Island facility?
3. Progressively increase the financial pressure from outside interests upon Iran.
4. IGNORE the democrats, the UN, public opinion and the MSM.
arjun.sevak
Of course you can disagree which you have done so politely.
But winning a battle or battles doesn't mean much until enemy says "Okay I surrender."
You are Patriot [which I respect] but if one was objectively looking at situation in Iraq as an Observer[with no axe to grind]-what is the difference between Soviets being forced out of Afghanistan and America forced out of Iraq?
No matter what spin, books put on it both will go down in History as DEFEATS.
delta boy
You are another Patriot which is no bad thing.
Have to be realistic though.America is in no position to wage another War because it is already stretched on two fronts. BECAUSE OF ILL JUDGED INVASION OF IRAQ,AMERICA IS TIED UP-BOGGED DOWN IN QUAGMIRE OF IRAQ.It is a dangerous thing even for a Superpower when there is fighting on more than one front...
l wonder if this thinking of iraq would of been around when fighting the Japanese would the US had the nerve to take out Jaan with the bomb?
now you have iran who the whole world knows is the main instigator of killings, unreest in iraq, and rest of the ME, can the US still go on a bombing mission and take out their military infracture? l would like to see more what can be done, instead of the hammering and hammering of what is wrong.
sp error, Japan,
Kool-Aid Alert!
lmao@ iraq being a worse defeat than vietnam
Not even close...I know- I was there.
Puhlease...lmao
Zena (I'll give it a shot),
1) (@ japan) Yes, still, since such wacko thinking by kook fringers today was not in the vocabulary-nobody was that stupid then.
2) (@bomging iran) yes, easily...it's been a long time since our heavy bombers have been used, and our stocks have been replenished (not really as much infrastructure as they portend).
3) (@ what can be done) apart from completely purging political correctness from the lexicon, as well as existence, allow the troops to fight as designed, not this PC feelgood policeman BS.
They're designed to...
1) kill bad guys
2) destroy their wares
That's all...but with so many restrictions by the islamists masquerading as legit officials, the PC scum running interference for them, and the one-sided "geneva convention!" screeds by hypocrites calling others hypocrites (mental projection problem), that's a tall order, especially with the MSM blathering islamist propaganda, doing the islamists work for them.
(the ONLY thing that resembles the vietnam era).
But that may prove irrelevant in the next few weeks considering the buildup of ominous signs of impending war in the next 6-7 weeks.
I see Irans "secret plans" are just about as secret as our "secret plans"....secrets just are not as important as they used to be...
good thing we have that extra security level:
"double secret probation"
lol
(sarc)
You cannot win a War by telling your Enemy what you plan to do, how you will do it and for how long it will be done.
Blow up Iran. Just don't tell them.
George Bush now faces the same sort of choices Richard Nixon did when faced with communist safe sanctuaries in Cambodia.
To widen the war or not?
A very, very difficult choice.
Assalamau Laikum all,
The Amerike will have to leave Iraq sooner or later...it's a question of when, how and under what circumstances.
There will never be a good time or a set time decided by the Amerike as they hope....no the circumstances will be dictated by rag-tag Allah-ites backed by others from outside influence.
The problem here has always been to decide on who the enemy is....is he also the peoples enemy?...
as in the case of the India partition ...it is not the map that the Amerike draws which counts...this map is already being drawn every day...a war of attrition on the peoples of Iraq and on the Amerike.
While you have your bullet proof armour and air cooled bullet vests...the peoples at the market have neither....they only have ALlah SWT.
When you have lost the trust of the people, when you can no longer control the behaviour or the influence of outsiders like Iran, Syria, etc...it's time to go.
How will you know this...is it now? ...well Allah SWT knows.
The pressure on the Amerike is gynormous, the whole world is watching...the most powerful nation on earth ever...the nation that dared to step foot on Alla's home (the moon)...will have to leave...with an empty glass..not half full but empty.
So prepare for your soldiers homecoming...but please do not line up the streets...they nor you can decide whether they were heroes or not...neither can the Iraqis...whom perhaps your tax payers will still have to support ...even with the troops at home.
Perhaps a remote marshall plan will work better for you...but who will be your counterpart at the other end....no...no let me tell you...it's the Mullah plan.
This event IMHO will be a blow bigger than 9/11 to the Amerike...a turning point where the power of the Amerike will start to wane globally...you will have to find new friends...the older ones will want to be friends with the new kids on the block that will take over like China, India.
Ultimately perhaps a decade later, a global kid with clout ...but perhaps suffering from growing pains will take over...Islam...prepare for it.
"This event IMHO will be a blow bigger than 9/11 to the Amerike...a turning point where the power of the Amerike will start to wane globally...you will have to find new friends...the older ones will want to be friends with the new kids on the block that will take over like China, India."
Naseem,
WE will have to find new friends?
The new kids on the block can't fix everything you want fixed and they won't be as stupid about doing it as Americans have been. They'll exact a price for their "humanitarian aid" that Americans never asked anyone to pay. Enjoy your new friends.
Americans will tell the older kids to take care of themselves for once and, to prove they mean what they say, can the older kids join up with the new kids on the block and get that monstrosity called the UN out of "Amerike"?
It sits on prime real estate which could be put to much better use.
"Success depends not on our own actions, but on a politically correct expectation of how Iraqis will react to those actions."
True, but then how do you get the Iraqis to react rationally to our actions, especially when their minds are in the grip of an irrational culture and religion?
Mr. Bush's great error is in believing that all people everywhere want the same things -- justice, democracy, freedom of religion and speech -- and they are willing to secure those things for themselves by granting those same rights to other members of their society.
We recently heard of Muslim rioters in Egypt protesting the building of a Christiaan church in their city, resulting in injury to several Christians. These same rioters, no doubt, feel oppressed by the authoritarian regime that governs them. They would like change, but the changes they want are not the kind of change Mr. Bush thinks they want.
They want to go from what they perceive as secular authoritarianism to clerical authoritarianism. They do indeed want religious freedom, the kind of freedom that Islam allows, the supression of those who believe differently than themselves. And, yes, they do want freedom of speech, the freedom to denounce apostates and anyone perceived as defaming Islam or its Prophet. And, yes, they want the rule of law, but kind of law? -- the barbaric law of Sharia.
This is the same story wherever Islam dominates a society -- including Iraq.
I applaud the General for trying to get something done in Iraq, but if he thinks success depends on wining the hearts and minds of Iraqi Muslims, he'd better hang it up right now and save us a lot of blood, sweat and tears for nothing.
Even if that day comes when we can say that the insurgency has been suppreseed, and the Iraqi government is able to stand on it own, I have absolutely no faith that our ideals of Democracy and freedom will prevail in that country.
Our last dead soldier's body won't be cold before Islam raises its ugly head to assert is own Islamic version of Democracy and freedom in Iraq.
No, Mr. Bush, not everyone everywhere want the same things. They might use the same words to describe what they want, but the words mean something entirely different than when we use them.
"In other words, most people with even an elemental understanding of institutional Islamic antipathies toward non-Muslims and non-Muslim culture would balk at spending blood and treasure for Gen. Petraeus' "hearts and minds" strategy".-Diana West
Precisely. Islam is not a "religion" that believes in the "Golden Rule"-which is the foundation of pluralism, a respect for different points of view. It must dominate. Even at this site, Muslims often refer to non-Muslims as "Kuffirs". They perceive non-Muslims as less worthy, as inferior souls. Islam is a total system that aims at destroying "indigenous cultures" and "indigenous peoples". History is full of such rationalization systems. But Islam is almost perfect as a tool of Imperialism and is at its core the engine of Arab Imperialism.
Gen. Petraeus' "hearts and minds" strategy" is reflective of a "Golden Rule" mindset projected on Muslims. But "Islam must rule-dominate" is their "golden rule". However, the good news is that people are becoming savvy re reality in this matter. Cool, critical analysis, is essential when dealing with Islam and that is happening more and more with folks. That is the best way to deal with danger.
Newsflash, Nasseem: There is no "allah." You and your people worship a pagan idol from pre-islamic times. You worship a pagan Moon god that doesn't exist!
You Muslims have got to be the dumbest people on the face of the Earth. You never progressed, you just stagnated whacking your heads to a piece of limestone. So pitiful. So pathetic. And that's why in the end you won't win - we have a REAL God on our side, the Father and His Son, and no way in hades will you barbarians beat that combo!
Already Sarkozy has said he will NOT be mass-legalizing illegals in France! At least 25,000 of you barbarians will be deported from France this year!
You see, the tide is turning!
Great post, rational. But that is only the tip of the iceberg.
Hubris is not the only reason why Bush and those around him do not want to admit they made a mistake. If they do come out and say that not all people want the same thing that would mark the end of a whole worldview that has had a grip on the west in the past 30+ years and at the same time the end of the entire political caste of the west.
The mind-set of non-Muslims must be critical analysis of Islam, not one of a "tolerance" born of pluralism. Islam has to be scientifically examined to gauge its meaning. The mind, not the heart, is the best way to look at Islam and to deal with Muslims. There is so much deception in Muslim culture that critical analysis is essential for non-Muslim survival.
People, I read an article this morning about Sarkozy not mass-legalizing illegals in France and instead deporting them (London's "Daily Mail.") In the Comments, ALL were cheering on Sarkozy and these decisions, including many from the U.S. Many said, "Can we borrow Sarkozy after he cleans up France?" !!!!
Bravo, Sarkozy.
Hey idol-worshipping Nasseem, YOU "prepare" for another 1683...because it will happen.
The leftists’ ploy of weighing Nam with Iraq is preposterous, except to those seditious wanks!
Once again, Hanoi Jane and others of her bilious ilk, vilify their president and nation, as they did thirty-plus years ago. The perfidious and self-righteous like of Jimmy Carter, too, weigh into the demonisation of Israel, America and its Commander-in-Chief.
The mention of the War with Imperial Japan is an interesting comparison. The fanaticism, which our military faced on land, sea and air have marked similarities, to that which we face today.
In the end, when it comes to roost that placating the fanaticism of Islam and the sponsors of terror, Iran and Syria; there will be one solution, as there was with Imperial Japan.
How can we be "defeated" when we took out evil Saddam and his two evil sons, themselves "WMD?"
We can't be responsible for centuries of shia/sunni hatred!
Nope, we won!
"Iran is fighting a proxy war in Iraq and it's a very dangerous course for them to be following. They are already committing daily acts of war against US and British forces," a senior US official in Baghdad warned.
from the article
So why aren't our forces allowed to respond to acts of war being committed against them?
Let the Iraqi's vote us out of Iraq. We successfully removed a despicable despot, neutralized their chemical/biological WMD and gave them 'democracy'. Let the Iraqi's utilize it and learn to take responsibility for their 'democracy'.
By voting to have the coalition forces leave, they admit the coalition has succeeded and have done all it can to introduce democracy to an islamic state.
We openly declare victory.
Leave.
LIVE AND LET DIE
When you were young and your heart was an open book
You used to say . . .live and let live.
(you know you did, you know you did, you know you did)
But in this ever changing world in which we live in
Makes you give in and cry
Say LIVE AND LET DIE
Live and let die
Live and let die
What does it matter to ya
When you got a job to do
You gotta do it well
You gotta give the other fellow hell
When you were young and your heart was an open book
You used to say live and let live
(you know you did, you know you did, you know you did)
BUT IN THIS EVER CHANGING WORLD IN WHICH WE LIVE IN
Makes you give in and cry
You cannot, as an infidel, have the "moral high ground" with any Muslims.
We lots the strategic high ground by failing to destroy as many Jihadist nest as soon as possible, after 9/11, whether in Pakistan or Syrian, Iran or Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya.
The iron of public (and even world) fury was white hot.
Waiting too long to strike has allowed the anti-western enemies to rally and erode the impulse of righteous anger aginst the Jihad.
As Teddy Roosevelt said: "Never hit softly."
And never hit slowly.
Or indecisively.
But, "moral highground" or not, we need to defend our Civilization.
And, if it means wiping out Iran;s nuclear program (and its supporters), we'll have to pay the price that doing it will cost us:
More jihad terror.
Otherwise, our enemies grow stronger as we grow less united.
Strike now.
"lost" not "lots the strategic..."
PMK makes a, more than, valid point. Iran is not solely on the sidelines in this war. Whether one is speaking of Iraq or Afghanistan, our troops and others of the coalition, are being killed and maimed with Iranian know-how and weaponry.
Undoubtedly, Iran’s involvement goes beyond these parameters. Yet our troops are made to fight with one hand tied behind their backs, be it rules of engagement or political-correctness.
For our troops to succeed, the “Western” restraint maxim on the battlefield must be tossed to the wayside. Every time a civilian or more is killed, our troops are demonised by the mass-media and every bloody, leftist pacifist. I am not advocating gratuitous slaying of innocents but war is war. Our enemies do not give a damn about those in the line of fire, be they women, children or the elderly.
If this mindset had been employed during the two World Wars: would the allies have won? In Nam a similar philosophy and tinkering by politicos caused more American lives and morale. This is the only similarity of the Vietnam War and the War on Terror.
Seemingly, we have learnt little from our past and continue placing our troops in harms way. Not because they are sent to battle but because of the incessant interference from politicos and wannabe flower-children of the media et al!
It is time the aforementioned were ignored and our courageous troops, be allowed to get to the task at hand without hindrance and prevail.
Things must get worse before they get better.
When all and I mean all of the Islamic world has regressed to a primitive Taliban-style state (especially Turkey) and the oil business is no longer able to fund their activities, then and only then will Islam be marginal force for evil in this world.
It's a mystery why we play cat and mouse games with the devil. Iran needs to be put in its place hard and fast...
Naseem says:The pressure on the Amerike is gynormous, the whole world is watching...the most powerful nation on earth ever...the nation that dared to step foot on Alla's home (the moon)...will have to leave...with an empty glass..not half full but empty.
Cant spell 'America' or even Allah, but comes up with a word like gynormous, Which means: From Urban dictionary : Adj: Something that is extremely large in comparison to anything else related; can also be used to exemplify sarcasam in a statement;
Root words: Gigantic and Enormous.
But I like this one better: A combination of the words, gigantic and enormous, most commonly used in reference to women with large boobies.
At least she admits that Allah is the moon god.
The rest of her post was too gynormous to contemplate.
From the article:
The battlefields then and now have few parallels, but imagine, for a moment, that 87 children were killed in an important air raid in terror-riddled Baghdad, not Nazi-occupied Copenhagen. Imagine, also, the ensuing mayhem and media amplification of an "irreparable blow to the battle for Iraqi 'hearts and minds.' "
I thank God we had the sense of self-preservation during WWII, we seem to have lost that necessary drive in the last 30 years.
If we bombed a school nowadays, the pilot and all involved would be up on charges.
How, oh how do we propose to win this or any war with the "lace panty" government we now have?
Actually it's not just the government, it is the whole atmosphere in the West, we are so feminized it is a wonder we still have an army. Give us a few (with the choices of leadership on the horizon) years and we may not.
This looks like it’s playing out as a four-phase conflict.
Phase 1: Arrogant Muslims attack and bloody the West.
Phase 2: Ignorant Westerners strike back, crush the Muslim military machines, but fail to understand the underlying religion or culture. Western rules of engagement and value placed on life cause mission to fail.
Phase 3: Education (ongoing). The West slowly begins to understand the underlying Muslim religion and culture and realizes its inherent hostility and barbarism. The Muslim world learns a different lesson. The Muslims begin to believe that their success in causing the West’s mission to fail indicates strength on their part, instead of ignorance on the part of the West. They again become arrogant.
Phase 4: Muslim Offensive (forthcoming). This should be encouraged, we’re not as dumb as we used to be. 10:1 odds that the African Union has an ownership interest in the Iranian oil fields when the smoke clears. Call it reparations.
"duh swami" - IS "Allah the Moon god?" If you're still around could you expand on that a bit? I'm interested in knowing your (or anyone else's) opinion on from whence came "Allah."
Thanks.
"Iran's secret plan..."
Not much of a secret now, is it?
Not a secret at all when I deduced all this over three years ago.
Bomb the bastards where they live. End the nuclear ambitions. Make Iraq and Afghanistan count for something more. Make our losses in Iraq worth the sacrifice.
Unleash the Dogs of War, damnit. There's no way that our U.S. military can not know what's going on and how they must deal with the threat. Iran wants Iraqi oil and American defeat. Two birds with one stone.
Name the enemy, George W. Name Iran, declare war and let's get this over with.
It is true that Iran is doing everything possible to undermine the U.S. and exert its influence in Iraq without openly declaring war on the U.S.
It is a fact that Iran is the direct sponsor of attacks on American soliders serving in Iraq. Yes, Iran is interefering in Iraq and it has caused problem for the U.S. and Great Britian. However, the Iranian intrusion into Iraq could also provide the pretext- along with Iran's defiance in addressing their nuclear energy program- for the U.S. and Great Britian to lead an air assault on Iran.
During the Iraq-Iran war in the 1980's, the U.S. provided satellite survellience to Sadaam and the Iraqi government to conquer the Iranians on the battlefield.
It worked. The Iranians were defeated and retreated. In the aftermath of the Iraq-Iran war, the Iranians have been quickly working towards their glorious return to the world stage of dominant powers. As the major Shi'a nation in the region, Iranians believe by divine right that it is their spiritual duty to exert their Shi'a influence and eliminate any traces of western influene in their region. To most religious Iranians, the west represents decadence and disorder. Furthermore, Iranians also tend to view the other branch of Islam, Sunni, as opposed to their own dominant religious worldview.
Many Iranians see the overthrow of Sadaam as a supernatural intervention by Allah for the Shi'a faith to resurge in the region with their caliphates.
President Bush failed to understand that democracy and voting for elected leaders doesn't necessarily open up the floodgates for human rights and democratic principles to flourish in the Middle East. President had a naive approach in understanding how democracy really works in the Middle East.
For example, let's look at what recently occurred in Palestine. The Palestinians, also embraced some democratic principles, namely, the right to vote in an electoral system.
What was the consequence?
Palestinians used the democratic process to vote in an Islamic fundamentalist government- Hamas- to represent the people's will. Hamas is a radical form of government that refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist as a nation and actively works to terrorize Israel.
Democracy could work in much the same way in Iraq. Iraqis could use democracy to vote in a fundamentalist Islamic government. Is it worth sending American troops to die on the battle field to defend a democratic process that will likely be used to vote in an Islamic agenda? There are no assurances that the U.S presence in Iraq will stop the democratic process from voting in an Islamic agenda. Additionally, the Iraqi constitution already has enshrined Islam as the primary religion in Iraq.
The Iraq invasion was not thought out or planned very well by the Bush Administration. The time has come to find better solutions for the dilemma in Iraq.
No pretext necessary when Iran and Syria are responsible for the deaths of American military personnel and contractors. No pretext necessary after the year long hostage crisis that was never retaliated for (and should have been). No pretext necessary when this war is with ISLAM anyway, and whether we want to label it as such, the Islamists surely already have declared war on us.
Everyone has to stop living in fear and fight the Goddamn fight!
Maybe the Muslims should pay us to "relocate"...
"Actually it's not just the government, it is the whole atmosphere in the West, we are so feminized it is a wonder we still have an army. Give us a few (with the choices of leadership on the horizon) years and we may not."
Your right! We send little girls into combat without an ounce of shame.
Darcy, yes Allah is a pagan moon god. This site explains it very well.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
Interesting reading...
From Presidential Candidate Jack Shepard's Media Campaign Against Worldwide Suicide Terrorism
visit: http://www.shepardusgov.com/Partial%20video.html to hear Dr. Shepard's video warning Suicide Bombers they will dwelling in the fires of Hell forever and ever not Heaven.
Visit Official Presidential Campaign web site of the Jack Shepard for President committee
http://www.jackshepardforpresident.com
__________________________________________________
Islam's Teachings Prohibit Terrorism, Says Imam Posted GMT 9-22-2005 23:15:13 AINS News Service
ROME --The imam of Rome's Grand Mosque condemned terrorism in the name of Islam, stating that "Islam is the religion of mutual knowledge and peace," not of "mutual hostility and clash."
Sheik Mahmud Hammad Sheweita made this statement at a press conference in Rome's Foreign Press Room, to present the Media Campaign Against World Suicide Terrorism, led by Jack Shepard, founder of the People for Peace Group.
The imam reminded his audience that suicide and murder are illicit.
"It is very clear that the killing of innocent people and of peaceful people have been declared illicit by Allah," he said Wednesday.
Also present at the press conference was Abdella Redouane, secretary-general of the Islamic Cultural Center of Italy who, when asked about Benedict XVI, said: "It is a privilege for us to be in Rome so close to the Vatican. Our relations are very good. We were at the Pope's funeral and we have already met in private with Benedict XVI, who, although he is different from John Paul II, follows a line of continuity in relation to Muslims."
Moreover, Redouane was pleased that Benedict XVI wanted to meet with Muslims in Cologne, Germany, and said that he hoped that, after her audience with the Pope, journalist Oriana Fallaci will be "less venomous against Muslims, and also against the Vatican."
For his part, Jack Shepard, promoter of the campaign against suicide terrorism, recalled that Rome is a place of meeting and dialogue between religions. "If all the world were like Rome," he said, "we would not be talking about such topics
Below is the Text of Imam Sheik Mahmud Sheweita statements in support of the Media Campaign Against Worldwide Suicide Terrorism led by Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group
__________________________________________________
Islam is the Religion of mutual knowledge and peace,
not the Religion of mutual hostility and clash
Statements of Imam Sheik Mahmud Hammad Sheweita, in support of the Media Campaign Against Worldwide Suicide Terrorism led by Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace Group
9/21/2005-Rome’s Foreign Press Room
The teachings of Islam show the highest respect for all humanity and proclaim the inviolability of all men and women, of any origin or skin colour, without distinctions based on their ideas or doctrines. Allah in the Noble Qur’an says: “We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea: given them for sustenance things good and pure: and conferred on them special favours” (Sura 17:70).
In the same way the Islamic Shariah treats with justice every human being and does not make any difference on the basis of race, nationality or religion. Allah the Highest said: “Oh you that believe! Stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin …” (Sura 4:135). The understanding that Islam has about justice is that of an absolute justice without any exception, of a universal justice far from any abuse of power or oppression. Human societies lost the right path when they administered justice in a wrong way, denying it to others but their own citizens. Islam, instead, recognizes freedom of religion to all men and women. This is clearly stated in many verses of the Holy Qur’an and in hadiths of the Prophet (pbuh). Allah says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands out clear from error …..” (Sura 2:256). And again: “If it had been the Lord’s will they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind against their will, to believe!” (Sura 10:99). In accordance to this divine decree, written in the Holy Qur’an, Allah has clearly defined the tasks of His Messenger Muhammad – may Allah bestow on him eternal happiness – in the clearest terms, without any ambiguity. These tasks are explained in details to the Messenger by Allah the Highest in the following verses: “Therefore do thou give admonition, for thou are one to admonish. Thou are not one to manage (men’s) affairs” (Sura 88:21 and 22). And again : “If then they turn away We have not sent thee as a guard over them. Thy duty is but to convey (the Message) ….” (Sura 42:48). Allah says also: “The Messenger duty is but to proclaim (the Message)….” (Sura 5:99) and again: “ ….. If you do turn back, know that it is Our Messenger duty to proclaim (the Message) …..” (Sura 5:92). Allah’s Messenger – may Allah bestow on him His Blessings – always remained faithful to the commandments of the Lord, leaving to men the freedom to embrace Islam or to remain faithful to their own religion and pledging to respect their religion, and their properties.
The principle that there is no compulsion in religion is by itself very clear, I would like, in any case to touch three topics:
1. A notion of Jihad referred to a war has never been understood as a method to coerce men to embrace Islam. If compulsion to embrace Islam would be legitimate certainly the Holy Qur’an would mention it. Instead, the Divine Revelation states exactly the opposite, denying the use of force to convert people to Islam. It is absolutely impossible that the Word of Allah – to Him the Glory – may present contradictions or ambiguities. Why then a violent form of Jihad has been possible? The Holy Qur’an authorizes war only tom fight oppression, iniquity and aggression. Allah the Highest command Muslims to abstain from aggression and to spare the life3 of innocent people. The Qur’an says: “… If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves” (Sura 2:194). Among the teachings of the Messenger of Allah Muhammad – may Allah pray for him and grant him eternal happiness – there is one which says that it is forbidden to harm innocent people even in a legitimate war of defence. The Prophet – peace upon him – said: “Do not dare to kill the elder, the young, the woman, those who adore Allah, those who work who do not participate in the war and do not wear weapons. This because Islam loves life, sanctifies it and preaches to men to love it. All this the Noble Qur’an says in a very clear way”.
“….. If any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people”.
2. The man who kills himself, the suicide, it is certainly the worst case of killing, because man has been taught love to one’s life and to protect it as a gift from Allah. If to kill a man is a terrible crime and sin, to kill oneself is an even more horrible crime and sin. Allah prohibited it saying: “….. make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction: but do good for Allah loveth those who do good” (Sura 2: 195). The Messenger of Allah Muhammad – may Allah grant him eternal happiness – instructs mankind to abhor suicide and prohibits it saying: “Who kills himself with a sharp blade, in his own hands, will continue to push it in is own body eternally in the fire of hell, and who kills himself with a poison will continue to drink it in the fire of hell for the eternity, without dying, and who kills himself by jumping from the top of a mountain will continue to jump in the fire of hell for the eternity without dying”. The Prophet – peace upon him – mentioning a man who wanted to kill himself said: “He was going to kill himself wishing for Paradise and I denied it to him”. Another time the Holy Prophet said about a man who killed himself: “I will not pray for him”. It is very clear, therefore, that the Islamic Shariah prohibits suicide, and all what the Prophet – peace be upon him – said demonstrates that suicide is absolutely forbidden forever and in any form it may take.
From all what I said before it is very clear that the killing of innocent people, and of peaceful people, have been declared illicit by Allah. Therefore all what happened in the explosions everywhere is contrary to the teachings of Islam. Teachings that prohibit without any doubt terrorism against peaceful people and their assassination.
__________________________________________________
The two leading Democratic Presidential
Candidates; Hillary Clinton and Barak Obsama are
very sadly lacking in any military experience at all.
They are two classic examples of candidates complete
unqualified to be your next Commander-in-chief.
They would choose from their democratic friends a
completely new group of inexperienced people to head
the Intelligence, Military, State Departments etc.
placing America unnecessarily at risk at a time where
America is in the middle of very complex Global War.
I like General Dwight Eisenhower did during his
Presidency will bring to the White House a fresh new
face of a political outsider with the vast military
experience and the experience of how to use it. Only
with a commander-in-chief who has and knows how to
use his military experience can we win our Global War
on Terrorism.
I would be working with our present proven team of
USAF Gen. Michael Hayden, Vice Admiral John
McConnell, Secretary of States Condoleezza Rice,
Secretary of Defense Richard Gates, and Secretary of
Veteran Affairs Jim Nicholson and other strong
possibilities who I consider irreplaceable. They are a
proven team excelling in their work. Their experience
and talent would bring to my administration and our
country much needed stability we surely need in a
time of war to have a smooth transition from the
present Administration to the next.
With the present very complex situation worldwide I
would think it an unwise choice to completely change
the present Cabinet. It would hope and pray that
professionals like ex-Secretary of States Colin Powell
would return to work in my administration.
I promise to do what ever it takes within the first 100
days of my administration to create the sovereign
State of Palestine living side by side in peace and
happiness with Israel. I promise this dream will
become a reality. Immediately if elected I would move
to Phase
III: Permanent Status Agreement and End of the
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict- Click-Major Change! This
is a promise I make to my fellow Americans and all
the citizens in the Middle East, "If elected the next
president of the United States for the first time in
over 50 years I will create an environment where
Peace will flourish between the Israel and its
neighbours in the first 100 days of my administration."
I would need experienced Middle East Professionals
like ex-Secretary of States Colin Powell to work with
me to guarantee that my promise to do what ever it
takes within the first 100 days of my administration to
create the sovereign State of Palestine living side by
side in peace and happiness with Israel will become a
reality.
__________________________________________________
Presidential Candidate Jack Shepard
supports much closer coordination between
Counterintelligence Agencies and Law
Enforcement Centers with expanding the
power of agencies like CIFA; a little-known
Pentagon Agency called the
Counterintelligence Field Activity. If
elected; Jack Shepard guarantees,
“Government agencies like CIFA will be
immediately getting increased funding and
all the support they need from my
administration, to guarantee that these
agencies have everything they need to
make America safe from terrorists by
expanding our ability in identifying
previously unknown or suspected terrorist.”
The election of Jack Shepard will mitigate risks
Americans face at home or abroad because of
his in-depth knowledge of the counter
terrorism field.
His election as the next President of the United
States will enhance the Security of the Untied
States.
Jack Shepard is qualified like no other
Presidential Candidate now running for the
office of President. He has 'knowledge
products' he uses daily playing a significant
role in his threat assessments and advisories
and risk assessments in support of his efforts
in the protection of critical operations,
resources, and technologies to better protection
America from the exploitation of terrorists
both home and abroad.
Irans secret plan: buy enough votes to elect Hillary....
Al-BBCeera managed to get a crew into Sadr City recently where they had practically unlimited access, including riding in the car of a member of parliament who lives in Sadr City.
This particular so called Member of Parliament can afford to live outside of the Green Zone and she is not dead? Is that because Sadr City is a fortified enclave, even more secure for a female activist defended only by her husband who was happy to explain why his wife could wear the pants because it was Allah’s will?
Anyway this particular black widow was happy to explain to the BBC that Al Qaeda was in the pay of the CIA. In her mind it would seem that the entire world, well the infidels and the Sunnis are in league against the Shia.
Which is funny I suppose, if you think about it because if it wasn’t for the infidels, the Sunni would still be feeding the Shia through meat grinders today.
And if Iran wins this particular argument what does she have to look forward to other than the Taleban ethic.
Naseem you remind me of the in flight safety routine that the lovely ladies do on the planes. No matter how many times you fly they always have the same thing to say and after about three times you just belt up and look at their curvy bits instead.
Can I look at your curvy bits Naseem? Unless your just another troll and then I say WAH! And tell you to get back under western funded bridge.
Whether you are Ahmadi or Taliban, Shia or Sunni I don’t care. Your enemies are taking deposits for holidays In Space, while you and yours use hand me downs from the Commies to kill each other.
At the rate you lot are going there won’t be a Muslim left on the planet.
Stop worrying about naseem...
He's vying for the old job previously held by baghdad bob.
LOL
Morgane said
The Soviet Union never said "I surrender", but that doesn't mean we lost the Cold War.
Gen. Petraeus is wrong. Our victory is not determined by the enemy's decision to be our bestest buddy. It is achieved on our terms and according to our definition.
You must know that there will never be a situation where the jihadists sit down and say "I surrender". Religious fanaticism, violent religious fanaticism, doesn't work that way. That doesn't mean that we're destined to failure (unless, like Gen. Petraeus, one defines victory as when the enemy loves you). Our failure can only come if we accept the values of the jihadists (Dinesh D'Souza, please pick up the white courtesy phone). Our failure can only come if we hesitate to take a clear moral stand against what the jihadists teach. It doesn't matter whether the jihadists say "I surrender".
Every once in a while, you meet an adversary like the "Black Knight" from Monty Python. You chop off his arm, and he says its a flesh wound. You chop off his other arm and his legs, and he scoffs and says you are falling into his trap, you're right where he wants you. That doesn't mean he won.
Israel went into Lebanon and kicked Hizb'Allah's *ss every which way but sideways, but Hizb'Allah still claimed victory. BUT the rocket attacks into Israel are way down. I think that Israel should have stayed in Lebanon longer and hit Hizb'Allah harder, but I also think that Israel militarily won that war, regardless of whether Hizb'Allah signed a treaty of surrender or not.
The jihadists will claim victory when we withdraw from Iraq, whether that occurs in 5 months, 5 years, or 5 decades. Let them. When they hold a news conference to claim victory, hit it with a cruise missile. When they hold a victory military parade, send in the Warthogs. Let them claim victory...over the screams of their dead and dying. Let them.
Much more importantly, start focusing on the non-military strategies that Hugh and Robert have suggested. That is where the road to victory lies, not in blowin' more stuff up. Cut off their petrodollar funding, and they'll be back to stabbing each other around the oasis. Keep them out of our country, and their violence will be their problem, not ours. Educate the infidels as to what their religion actually teaches, morally, and they will be pariahs for all eternity, or until they reform Islam, whichever comes first.
Ok...if we haven't figured it out already.
To release a "secret" publicly like this, which shows the enemies actions, doesn't hurt us, but the enemy.
Why would they do this? (rhetorically)
Simple...since it would prove exceptionally difficult to catch them in the act of commencement (which there is a dangerous margin for error and miscalculation, thus possibly missing the targets), it shows to be better to simply release it to the press, knowing the enemy sees this too, sending the message: we're onto your plans.
Now while the enemy will posture, implying no effect to them (publicly), they are actually pausing, causing the enemy to second guess itself, and wonder if it is simply walking into a trap...or not.
Simple psyops...make the enemy second guess itself, as nothing freaks out a human worse than not knowing. Even we know that bad news is better than no news...fear of the unknown is, and always has been, one of the worst things inflicted on a human.
If they call it off, and cover their @$$es claiming "Oh, we never did have any plans to do this", as the MSM will invariably swallow their "jizzya" hook line and sinker, and their minions blindingly believe it too...hey, that's ok.
If it prevents a massive international attack on the west...hey, that's fine, too.
Better to let them back off and posture bogusly in goebbels-esque fashion than face mass murders of westerners by their maniacal minions.
It won't be the first time such a scenario has happened...and won't be the last.
Sometimes a show of cards prematurely to an adversary beats their seemingly superior plans in the end.
Welcome to the wonderful world of PsyOps.
(big hint)
;-)
Thank You, "duh swami," I'll go to that site.
Does it mean, allah as a moon god, that Muslims worship an idol? What's your view?
I've just read the link you sent me, "duh swami" and it's good!
"biblebelievers.org" thinks that "Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult...as such, it is sheer idolatry...
The site explains why Muhammed never had to define who Allah was in the Qur'an - pagan Arabs already knew, as Allah was the chief deity and the greatest of all the deities. What Muhammed changed was getting rid of all the other some 350 pagan deities and making Allah the only one, monotheistic.
Question: Why do you think he decided to do that? What was in it for him?
Sura 41, verse 37 - this is what has thrown me today and why I was asking for people's opinions concerning allah. If anyone has their Koran handy and can comment on that verse, I'd appreciate it. I'm looking for input so I can resolve this very important issue concenring Islam for myself. You've helped, "duh swami," thanks!
Naseems the taliban have not taken over your furntiture store yet? pretty soon you will be selling only carpets made by child labour. the pak is not ready for the modern world, its leaders are too much like sheep before the knife, ie taliban. naseems soon they will catch up to you, better you leave for safety, GB is lovely this time of year, you can get away from the heat of the pakland.
"Why do you think he decided to do that? What was in it for him?
darcy,
That's simple...
Answer: power & control
The adage is incomplete, as one former superior of mine put to me most aptly years ago:
" 'Power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely...'
but it's the struggle for power that corrupts the worst of all."
(Admiral Thomas Moorer)
Yeah, jcom972, I just wonder how an illiterate 7th Century Bedouin had the wherewithal to even think up what he did. I guess I have such a low opinion of Muhammed that I can't grasp how he could even think to bamboozle his countrymen of that time much less succeed at it, which he certainly did.
I mean, is Islam the Con of Cons?
Did you check out Sura 41:37?
Posted by: Naseem at May 22, 2007 08:31 AM
...The pressure on the Amerike is gynormous, the whole world is watching...the most powerful nation on earth ever...the nation that dared to step foot on Alla's home (the moon)...will have to leave...with an empty glass..not half full but empty.
The nation that dared step fot on Alla's home (the moon..
Ah, folks, another conspiracy by those evil Zionists to 'cleanse' or remove any proof of Paradise! Seems that the footage of moon landings in July 1969 contradict all of the basic teachings on Islam. I mean, jeez, did Neil see all of those wonderful gardens and palaces? And all of those 70,000 Muslims who would have access to Paradise?
Surely, something must be wrong here, Naseem. Evil Zionists influenced NASA and President Nixon to 'edit' out all of those wonderful pictures of Paradise.
Get a clue. Muslims have NOT the intelligence to find their way out of the desert, let alone acknowledge that humanity has the potential for space exploration. But for us non-believing 'Infidels', I would guess that exploration of 'heavenly' realms (cf: the Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, et al.) is just plain heretical.
I guess that for us, in the West, that non-belief in 7th Century dogmatism allows us to push the limits of knowledge.
Can the Muslim community claim the same?
I doubt this entirely. Hey, by the way, when was the last cell-phone produced in Arabia?
Darcy...I think jcom972 is right, power and control. Mohammad reduced the number of gods to be worshipped from 360 to one. He was trying to start a new religion so the old one had to go.
Mohammad did not write the Quran by himself. One of his associates, Zayd b amr Nufayl had a lot to do with it. If you have not read Abdul Kasems book on faithfreedom.org, and want to know who wrote the Quran and where Mohammad got some of his ideas. Go to faithfreedom, look under authors, find Abdul Kasem, scroll down to 'Who authored the Quran'.
Some of your questions about why Mohammad did this or that may be answered there...Karem also wrote on 'Sex and Sexuality' in Islam it's under misc articles.
An eye opener. If you think you know how bad women are treated in Islam, it's worse than you think...
"The imam reminded his audience that suicide and murder are illicit.
"It is very clear that the killing of innocent people and of peaceful people have been declared illicit by Allah," he said Wednesday."
I wonder if the Iman is willing to go to Egypt or Saudi Arabia and address the same remarks to a gathering of Imans in those places?
And would he be willing to add that "the so-called Martyrs that are honored throughout the Muslim world were nothing but cold blooded murderers, and it's highly unlikely that any of them are in paradise rollicking around with 72 virgins."
And is he willing to state that "those that promise young men a special place of honor in paradise for killing the innocent in the name of Allah, are themselves apostates and murderers, and should face the severest penalities under sharia law?"
Just how much does the Iman believe in what he's saying? -- just enough to say it in the security of a press room in Rome?
''The pressure on the Amerike is gynormous, the whole world is watching...the most powerful nation on earth ever...the nation that dared to step foot on Alla's home (the moon)...will have to leave...with an empty glass..not half full but empty.''
If this ''god'' is so powerful how come he makes his home on a desolate chunk of rock? For that matter why does he live in space/time?
''This event IMHO will be a blow bigger than 9/11 to the Amerike...a turning point where the power of the Amerike will start to wane globally...you will have to find new friends...the older ones will want to be friends with the new kids on the block that will take over like China, India.''
And you expect them to support your jihad and Islamic garbage? China will lock you away as they do all who don't ascribe to their state religion and India will bomb you into hell for all the wrongs your kind have perpetrated against them over the years. They will hate you.
Yes, darcy...I did. The confusion is perfectly understandable. See if I can help on this point...
Keep in mind that 7th century bedouin status is merely the mentality, which you're right on target with...BUT...He (OBL) also studied in college-and though he may or may not have graduated (some reports conflict), one thing's for sure- among his studies was civil engineering & public administration. (BIG hint applied towards 9/11).
The world's full of otherwise stupid people who pull off things that requires exceptional skills (look at welfare cheats for starters-it takes as much skill as an accountant to maintain the fraud, but many street scum have managed to pull it off). When you want something badly enough (say, in his case), you do whatever it takes to attain that goal, and all else becomes secondary priority, even if it entails trying to find ones way out of a desert.
So your thoughts are valid...I hope this helped.
It can be summed up by an American President over 100 years ago...
"...to educate a man in mind, but not in morals, is to educate a menace to society."
(Theodore Roosevelt)
"The nation that dared step foot on Allah's home the moon"....posted by Naseem.
So you do worship a moon god. Glad to see you're acknowledging this fact.
You should be thanking our nation for setting foot on the moon because we proved that it wasn't made out of cheese; but I bet you were disappointed to make this discovery because what was allah going to eat now?
Islam is such a baseless "religion".
Thank You swami and jcom for your additional comments last night.
I'm still thinking that yes, "Allah" is the pagan Moon god that Muhammed unilaterally declared to be the "only" "God." And that Sura 41:37 is simply a DISCLAIMER that Muhammed had to make in order to separate the "new" Allah from the "old" allah.
Anyone know whether 41:37 is Meccan or Medinan?
Mr. Spencer - Is 41:37 Meccan or Medinan?
"champ" - Nasseem really said "Allah's home the moon?" Well then, "he" must definitely be the Moon-god (though they say "God"), then.
What do you think?
LOL - Re: Allah/allah: "Meet the new boss/same as the old boss!"
You're welcome darcy...
while I don't think it's the "moon god" per se, the moon is of exceptional importance to them (which I will be bringing to attention soon enough as the discussion threads warrant, and the pattern of impending "events" unfold).
There is an advantage to it, however...it may prove scary in telling the tale, but it also gives great tipoffs if you know what to look for.
By the way...I posted this elsewhere but also fits here.
Gee...wonder how this got there?...LOL
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274932,00.html
(at 30:$1 official nonfloating rate, that's 180,000 in iranian currency, far in excess of what an average iraqi would have, or could afford).
BUST-ed!
Of course, there's "no iranian involvement" there.
puhlease! lol
Hi Darcy,
I think that Muslim's worship a pagan god, and since they attach significance to the 'moon', then moon god it is! And Naseem really confirmed this belief when she stated that it was allah's home. Ha Ha Ha!