[Note from Robert Spencer: Introducing Jay Tuch of American Israeli Patriot, who has kindly agreed to post here also. Welcome, Jay!]
It's hard to believe that despite our entering into the "enlightened" 21st century, Europe has not changed very much. Here are the results from an ADL poll of 5 countries; France, Italy, Germany, Spain, and Poland; all from the continent that brought you a Holocaust, Pogroms, blood libels and an Inquisition.
This is from the ADL, "ADL Survey in Five European Countries Finds Anti-Semitic Attitudes Rising":
Findings Summary A majority of those surveyed across Europe, 51%, believe that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to their own country, with a majority of respondents in Spain, Poland and Germany saying they believe that this statement is "probably true."
High levels of those surveyed still believe in the traditional anti-Jewish canard that "Jews have too much power in the business world." Overall, nearly 39% of all respondents believe this stereotype to be true.
Similarly, respondents still adhere to the notion that "Jews have too much power in international financial markets." Overall, 44% cling to the traditional stereotype.
Large portions of the European public continue to believe that Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust. Overall, 47% of those surveyed believe it is "probably true." In fact, a plurality of respondents in France, Germany, Italy, Poland, and Spain believe this notion to be true.
Overall, 20% of those surveyed continue to blame Jews for the death of Jesus.
Overall, 25% of those surveyed say that their opinion of Jews is influenced by the actions taken by the State of Israel. Of those respondents whose opinions are influenced, a majority, 52%, say that their opinion of Jews is worse as a result of the actions taken by Israel.
Nearly half of all respondents agree with the notion that "American Jews control U.S. Middle Eastern policy;" in Spain - 53%; in Poland - 56%.
These results are like something out of the Dark Ages. Not only do they expose Europe's shame, they embolden the jihadists who want to destroy Israel. Despite the attacks in London and Madrid, Europe continues to turn a blind eye to the real threat -- the only threat.
I expect the usual emails from the usual anonymous brave hearts who accuse me of crying "anti-Semitism" any time things don't go my way. If this isn't anti-Semitism, please enlighten me.
I propose the following questions be posed in the next "EuroPoll":
Do you think that too many Muslims have immigrated to Europe?Do you think that Muslims who settle in Europe are more dedicated to their religion than their new country?
Are your opinions of Muslims affected by the activities of the global jihadists?
Do you think the Islamic community in general bears any responsibility for the 9/11 or 7/7 attacks? If so, why? If not, why not?
What do you think the answers would be? But of course there will be no answers because there will be no poll. This sort of poll would set Europe ablaze. Dhimmis don't like that.
This article further extends the view that European stupidity endears them to the Jiahdists and that only catastrophic strikes by said Jiahdists resulting in many deaths will be the wake up call needed in discovering who the enemy is. Likely, also, the "humanist" and leftist enablers will disengage all government responses that will restrict the flow of the poisonous idealogy of said Jiahdists and the Democracies will continue to elect these enablers and segregate themselves from the "radical" parties that could save them or support Israel who fights the Jiahdists head on.
Eurpoe already is ablaze...they just don't realize it yet.
And welcome, Jay.
Fail to see what this has to do with Muslims. People's perception about Jews being more loyal to themselves than their adoptive country is just an observation most people make. I am sure you are right the people of Europe have been dhimminized to the point of not admitting that this applies to Muslims more than other people. But most ethnic groups tend to be ethnocentric. I believe these questions and answers are a seperate issue.
Despite the attacks in London and Madrid, Europe continues to turn a blind eye to the real threat -- the only threat.
- Jay
If you mean the only threat is Islam, then nope, I don't agree.
Watch Russia and China.
I regret to say that the good ole US of A also has its follies, too. Evangelical that I am, I still remain appalled at how many of my brethren--who supposedly believe in original sin--believe that sinister conspiracies lie behind every problem. Maybe, after years of living with Jewish neighbors, they see others besides "JOOOOZ" behind the conspiracies, but conspiratorial theorizing is still a stupid waste even if its anti-Semitic content has been purged.
Further, I read Ze'ev Suffot's book on opening Israel's first embassy in China, and was surprised to read his report that Chinese Communist cadres blamed the handful of Jewish "foreign friends" in China for the rigidities and follies of Chinese Communism during its first seventy years--as if the head of the Gang of Five war surnamed Murmeltier instead of Mao.
Isn't it just grand, folks, that it's always somebody else's fault?
May i suggest what Europe's current would answer to your questions:
1)Do you think too many Muslims have immigrated to Europe?
A: Muslim immigration has bolstered our economies by filling jobs that native Europeans are unwilling to do for wages that greedy corporations are willing to pay. We welcome diversity and multi culturalism as a necessary requirement of a healthy nation.
2)Do you think that Muslims who settle in Europe are more deicated to their religion than their new country?
A: Muslims who settle in Europe do so to escape the poverty and oppression of their countries of origin. Those who practice Islam are no different than those of us who practice the many religions that are already represented in Europe. The fact that second generation Muslims are more apt to riot and become radicalized by their religion is due to the fact that government has not offered them the opportunities to participate in our culture and have segregated them into slum areas of our cities.
3) Are your opinions of Muslims affected by the activities of global Jiahdists?
A: The global Jiahdists are merely a handful of radicals who misrepresent the true meaning of Islam. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens who may have different cultural values than Europeans. We will not smear or seek to discover if the foundations of their theology could possibly inspire the terror brought upon our nations. This is a bigoted response and is beyond the cultural awareness of European society.
4) Do you think the Islamic community in general bears any responsibility for the 9/11 or 7/7 attacks? If so, why? If not, why not?
A) Absolutely not. This would be a bigoted response. There are many Islamic groups that are working hard to integrate Muslims into European society. Because there are over 4000 cells in England alone with the puropese of carrying out similar attacks under police scrutiny does not in anyway mean that the Muslim community has allowed this radical idealogy to prosper in its midst.
Jay, most of us know the answers that would be given as we know the mindset of European dhimmis.
I read recently Sebastian Rodriquez, a European journalist, who argues that Europe died at Auschwitz.
He says: "We assassinated 6 million Jews in order to end up bringing in 20 million Muslims!"
http://theanchoressonline.com/2005/09/21/europe-died-in-auschwitz/
As described here recently one Jihad Watch writer said succinctly that Europe replaced its heirs of the clever Issac with the descendants of Issac's retarded half brother Ishmael.
Many argue here convincingly that Islam is a degenerate analogue form of religion modeled after Judeo- Christianity. It is indeed ironic that many of the evils that Europeans have traditionally associated with the Jews seem in contrast to be customary norms of Islam. "We thirst for your blood!" "Poison your neighbor." Kill your neighbor and enslave his daughter. A plot to take over the world. A scheme that allows the taking of your property. It appears that Europeans may have been mistakenly blaming Issac for the misconduct of Issac's retarded half brother, Ishmael. Indeed all the libels against Jews in Europe from the Year 1066 appear perhaps because European then as now continue to mix up their Semites.
Briars:
Good one. Naturally, no pollsters would dare conduct a survey asking such questions nor would any media outlet publish the results were such a poll conducted.
The fact is that many Europeans are voting with their feet, departing Holland, the UK, etc., for North America because they are fed up and frightened by the dismal prospects of an increasingly Islamafied Europe.
Ok i'm European and here are my answers.
1: Far too many of them over here, so many i'm thinking of leaving!!
2: Absolutely - they are far more dedicated to their religion (if thats what it even is).
3: Yes they are, cos these people don't help root them out at all and in recent polls it was suggested that they even support them!!
4: Yes it does. Why? cos Islam is a pathetic joke of a religion that doesn't even stand up to the slightest scrutiny, insane words of a petty warlord.
Get them out of my country!!
“all from the continent that brought you a Holocaust, Pogroms, blood libels and an Inquisition.”
Well, if this is an example of Jay Tuch’s thinking, give me Robert and Hugh any day. Europe was also the continent that brought “you” (who?) Western civilization, don’t forget.
Demvaril
That is sane thinking from you. All Europeans should do the math. 16 million Jews on this planet and 1+ billion Muslims. And the Muslims are taking over EUro nations via immigration and population explosion, the demographic Jihad. With European welfare systems subsiding huge Muslim families for the demographic Jihad. How long before a Muslim in the French military is granted command over some of France's nuclear arsenal?
Props too to Briars' post
JFGR
So if gun is put to your head who do you chose? Jay Tuchs or the Jihadists? Just because Jay doesn't mention the superiority of Western (European) civilization does not mean he doesn't think so. Jay and any Jew much prefers living in Europe (can substitute America, Canada, Australia, NZ) to any Muslim country. South Africa used to be on the list. In Israel I met tons of SA Jews who left there
How is that they can poll this question about Jews and not ask the same about Muslims?
There's the answer.
(Jihad works.)
the great jewish peoples have been in my old city of lincoln for a thousand years. during the crusades a mob attacked their stores which were situated around the steep cobbled roads leading to the castle. for centuries the jewish peoples have been persecuted, harrassed by various governments and slaughtered and blamed for the worlds woes. in france they are getting it bad, from the left and from muslims.
this needs to stop. they need to be protected.
I hope that our american allies realise that the English do not want muslims in our country. I, my friends and family, also most people i meet do not want them here, it is only the spineless politicians, the media and the PC brigade who won't even talk about it. If they did a poll like that in England, with normal English people on the street, it would have a resounding "get out" answer. Our Politicians won't broach the subject as they run scared of the minority who would call them racist and fear for their jobs. We need a new leader like the Australian PM, he has my respect. The media wouldn't publish results of a poll like that either, in fear of a backlash from the same minority. Its lunacy how we true Englishmen and women can't express our thoughts in our own country. To me, my country is already lost, its just a matter of time. Either that or we will see bloodshed on our home soil on a large scale.
The above comment by me was based on the "euro poll" in the original text, the questions about muslims. :)
This sort of comment is unhelpful. No rational argument can reach sensible conclusion when discussing 'the Jews' (as a collective) and 'Europeans' (as another collective). Many people in Europe are now waking up to the situation and taking
action to deal with it.
Cheap criticism from another continent backfires upon those who make it. Groups such as the Anti-Defamation League antagonise and alienate too many people (otherwise favourably disposed) when they seek out evidence of 'anti-Semitism'.
In time, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophesy.
Demvaril: "I hope our American allies realize that the English do not want muslims in our country." My English boyfriend's mother (I am American) is the sweetest, non-judgemental being you could ever want to meet. But when I mention the muslim invasion of England, you can see her answer in her frown. I know.
Welcome here, Jay. What I would say is that with anti-Semitic attitudes as expressed above by the majorities of these populations, maybe Europe deserves the Muslims.
This business of blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus: it indicates only how silly most questionaires about such things are. That's right, reduce a question that requires an essay answer to five choices: strongly agree, agree, neutral, disagree, strongly disagree. What idiocy.
In fact, it was Jews who were responsible for the death of Jesus (at the hands of the Romans) if the Gospel records, our only historical accounts of the event, are even approximately accurate. But this is a very long way from telling the whole story.
For one, there is the teensy detail that Jesus WAS a Jew himself, as were all of his followers. To base a vile racist dogma on the actions of a few men on a particular day in history is the height of stupidity. There were bad Jews in this story, and good ones -- just like in every other culture.
The records make clear that it was the actions of particular men in the leadership of the Jewish nation (the Sanhedrin, scribes, teachers of the law and so on) who were responsible for putting together a handpicked crowd to pressure Pilate into doing the dastartly deed.
Why did they come to arrest Him at night? As all accounts agree, the *Jews* strongly supported Jesus; the leaders feared a popular uprising against them if they should arrest him in broad daylight. It was the actions of a very small group that we are talking about here. They had to carry out this deed in secret because of the plain and simple fact that the Jews (as a whole) were NOT prepared to kill Jesus -- precisely opposite to the conclusion that the "deicide" crowd stretches for!
But let us not tar the entire leadership of the day. Even in the Sanhedrin there were dissenting voices. Nicodemis and Joseph of Aramethia, for example, were well-known supporters of Jesus, and these men arranged for a respectful burial for him (the Romans often left their victims on the cross to be eaten by buzzards and crows).
And although the famous scholar Gamaliel (a member of the sanhedrin) is not mentioned in this story we find him shortly afterwards acting as a moderate influence during the persecution of the early church. So let us say that with high probability there were at least three dissenters on the council.
So why didn't their moderate, reasonable voices carry the day? A more careful reading gives the most probable reason: they weren't present. The trial of Jesus took place in two stages: first a preliminary, and apparently unofficial, hearing at night in front of the high priest and a few others, and then a meeting of some quorum of the sanhedrin at dawn -- the sanhedrin could not, by law, hold court at night. Why at the crack of dawn? Presumably the point was to exclude some "undesirable" participants. The only members present would be those handpicked by the powers that be. In other words, the process was hijacked by a small group of power hungry and jealous leaders wishing to remove this popular man who had so galvanized the crowds.
At many points in the Gospel accounts the phrase "the Jews" is used of those who opposed Jesus. But we must remember that Jesus, the writers themselves (with the possible exception of Luke), and with very few exceptions, *all* the protagonists in the story were *also* Jews. The phrase is a contraction for "those who held power in the Jewish community of the day" -- it is not a vilification of Jesus's Jewish contemporaries en masse, and certainly not of Jews down through the ages.
To kill this vile piece of antisemitism, all one needs is an honest reading of the actual New Testament, and not reduce it down to a few check-boxes on a questionaire!
Im from the UK and can honestly say I've never heard anyone I know make an anti-Jewish remark. They simply wouldn't be interested one way or the other. If you were to talk about politics or football, there'd be more of a reaction.
People are however, concerned about islam.
Perhaps the people questioned were BBC, Grauniad or Independent Newspaper employees.
Celcius
You're probably right. The poll Jay cites above was done in France, Germany, Italy, Poland, and Spain. No mention that such attitudes are shared in Britain.
Poland shocks me - I thought those people had more sense than that. The others don't. A special note for Spain - you people might want to look up where
'al-Andaluz' is.
A sad commentary on the continent that produced Charles Martel, Jan Sobieski, Ferdinand and Isabella, Don John of Austria, Lazar of Serbia, General Suvorov and so many other heroes.
pissedoffcanadian wrote:
"Fail to see what this has to do with Muslims."
I fail to see it too. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Jihad or Muslims.
So is JW/DW branching out from focussing on the Jihad threat to a kind of playground level smug American triumphalism?
Are all Jay Tuch's officially sanctioned contributions going to have the function of blowing a raspberry at all non-Americans and straying from the theme of Jihad?
Incidentally, an ADL survey of Americans found that 30% of Americans blame the Jews for the death of Jesus.
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4680_12.htm
A tinge of hypocrisy from Americans who need to get their own house in order.
Jay Tuch wrote:
"all from the continent that brought you a Holocaust, Pogroms, blood libels and an Inquisition."
And Jay Tuch was writing from the continent that brought you the genocide against the native Americans, racially based slavery, racial lynchings, Hiroshima, etc.
Sad. For a little bit of anectodal corroboration, I was just in a little town in Greece for a few days. One day while I was traipsing around ruins my wife spent in the village with a newly-minted Greek friend. "Is it true that George Bush is Jewish?" she asked. My wife involuntarily spit Nescafe through her nose from such a bizarre question. "No, he's a Christian Fundamentalist," she replied, more puzzled than anything. Though that question must have come from a some type of belief that Jews wield inordinate power.
Celsius
very true and accurate statement
i am a BNP member and i have not heard any anti semetic dialogue nor witnessed violence towards the great jewish people. most folk i run into are concerned with the islamic cultural invasion and the marxist s that are running the UK.
if i heard any anti-semetic language that person would be quickly looking for a good dentist.
Welcome Jay!..
ah Eurabia..sigh. Speak now or forever embrace your dhimmitude.
well done!
I think they may incorrectly equating the left leaning prominent Jews with the entire race. I have seen that. Left generally isn't too loyal (being international and all) so that's not really related to Jews only.
Congrats on your joining Jihad/Dhimmi Watch Jay!
It's to be considered an honor.
Those poll question proposals of yours: I believe I'll ask similar questions in some polling on my site later...
It's unlikely that we'll see the MSM commission and report polls indicating that most folks are certain in belief that most terrorism is Islam-related.
nice to see more of my countrymen on here. Lo Celsius, Leonthepigfarmer, David England, Londonborn&bred and anyone else i missed!!
Leon, we don't have a BNP candidate where i live, but i spoiled my vote by writing BNP in big letters on the slip and putting a big tick next to it hehehe just as the website suggested.
leonthepigfarmer wrote:
"if i heard any anti-semetic language that person would be quickly looking for a good dentist."
The BNP is an anti-semitic party, so I take it there's going to be a lot of dentistry going on.
Relevant links have been posted on previous threads on JW/DW, and the question has been debated. For example:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015050.php
I hate to say it, but does any of this surprise anyone? Europe is being overrun with muslims, to the point that it's been dubbed Eurabia, and London as Londonistan.
Enclaves of sharia law now exist in frequency throughout the continent. Also, does it surprise anyone that since certain European countries imported cheap labor from muslim countries, that now they're having issues with these immigrants?
As someone mentioned previously, Europe is on fire, and they don't know it...I would add that they would deny it as well...
http://toddanthony.squarespace.com
Also, welcome Jay...I enjoy your American Israeli Patriot site...good stuff, dude
http://toddanthony.squarespace.com