Some good news from London: the Tablighi Jamaat should not be permitted to build this mosque at all. By Joanna Sugden in the TimesOnline, with thanks to Davida:
An ultra-orthodox Islamic sect has delayed plans to build a "mega-mosque" in East London after the Government warned it could "raise tensions" in the community.Tablighi Jamaat had intended to submit plans to build Britain's largest place of worship next to the Olympic site, this September. But the group told Times Online that no plans would now be submitted until next year at the earliest.
More than 48,000 people have petitioned the Government to "abolish plans for the £100m mega-mosque" with a capacity for 12,000 worshippers beside the London 2012 Olympic park in Newham, East London.
The Government said that the issue could "raise tensions" and did not expect any planning application to be made in the "near future".
"It should not be looked at any differently from any other faith building"
--from the linked article.
Perhaps, if it were indeed a 'faith building'. However, to the Muslims seeking its construction it is rather an encampment, a fortress, behind (temporarily) enemy lines. Note the choice of the particular site. Note the size.
12,000 storm troopers in your encampment is not a good thing....
T'is a wonder indeed that Muslims everywhere,expecting handouts from Infidel Governments always HAVE MILLIONS TO BUILD MORE AND MORE BLOODY MOSQUES!
Agree with above Posters-these huge concrete monstrosities resemble fortresses rather than gentle places of Worship. No doubt their cellars
are well stocked with weapons for the Jihad.
We should be like the Un PC Swiss whose attitude is upsetting BBC...
Assalamau Laikum all,
Obviously I am a little disappointed with the decision not to go ahead with this modern air conditioned place of worship.
The fault for this lies with the jihadist activities around the world colouring peoples opinions in the UK.
What they don't realise is that there is little point in jihad....
Just imagine...that without Jihad...we can one of these in each major city in Europe...let alone the UK. This is the way to empowerment ...this is the way to influence your hosts to convert to Islam...to become the majority and to introduce mild sharia.
This is a big blow to Islam...instead of it being a blow to the Jihadists...it is the innocent muslims who have lost out here.
As a peaceful protest ...I would like to see the land converted to an Islamic graveyard....dead muslims staring out to the olympic stadium for me says it better than anything else could.
A smaller mosque would have been approved. Muslims jumped the gun. They blew it because of their ingrained triumphalism. UK is dhimmi but not so dhimmi to approve the false prophet's temple of submission and soft Jihad
Just you wait. I am almost certain that within a few days one of those 'Human Rights' groups or the MCB, or the MPACUK is going to sue the government for denying them 'the right to practice [their] religion' and the dhimmicrats will give a green light to the construction. The British authorities are some of the most gutless in Europe when it comes to resisting the Islamist demands, as Melanie Philips vividly demonstrates in her Londonistan, and I wouldn't be surprised if the minarets of this mega-mosque would be towering London a few years from now.
Sad but true.
dolphin,
CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org/
I remember dead olympian athletes staring with dead eyes as the result of a Muslim assault....
Why is this organisation not banned in this country? Oh yeah, I forgot, "multiculturalism". Silly me.
This is a big blow to Islam...instead of it being a blow to the Jihadists...it is the innocent muslims who have lost out here.
Posted by Naseem
Well with Recent polls that show that 35% of 18-29 year old British Muslims support suicide bombing on civilians , and 81% of British Muslims consider themselves Muslim before British , i'd say the decision to stop this Mosque should be made at all costs. Muslims should never be allowed to congregate in the tens of thousands, That's just common sense.
It's clear where the majority of British Muslim's loyalties lie. Unlike Islam , we in the west have fought very hard to free ourselves from Religious totalitarianism and fascist Religious Theocracies. This Mega Mosque concept would bring nothing but trouble.
And things do not look good in Boston either. Good. Hold those f***ers off!
Nassem , " INNOCENT " is a question of perception. The silent Muslim majority is not "innocent" in my eyes.
Interesting how Naseem only complains that the Jihadists have caused problems for the islamification of the UK, rather than condemning them for the murder of muslims and non-muslims alike. This is an example of a "moderate" muslim? The evidence says yes.
If it quacks like a duck.....................
I know you are a troll Naseem but you should really consider debating with us, you can do that you see, because, unlike your fellow religionists WE don't go round murdering people for using facts. We are trying to help you as much as we are trying to help the rest of the world. It is women such as yourself who are the "victims within". We are actually using debate and discussion to help YOU.
The thing i truly will never understand about UK and Western Muslims who long to see Europe and the Americas "Islamified" is that they themselves or at least a great number of them have LEFT or FLED Islamic Lands and know Full well what an Islamic nation is like. It can't be all that or they would never have left and there would be huge numbers of new Muslims immigrating to those lands, but that just is not happening.
Do they have some dillusion that an Islamic UK or US would be this Paradise that none of the Islamic nations on Earth are?
they know what an Islamic state offers, most from first hand experience....
Pain and suffering.
"I remember dead olympian athletes staring with dead eyes as the result of a Muslim assault...."
Posted by: exsgtbrown
exsgt:
That was my exact first thought upon reading Naseem's BS comment.
Assalamu Laikum Davematey,
I thought I was debating ....I don't like the Taliban, I don't like Jihadists, I don't like to see the innocent being killed or maimed.
But I cannot see our basic rights being infringed either...and I have stood up and said that the Jihadists are causing harm to Islam...who else do you know would say such a thing.
Following this, Islamic faith schools, Islamic abatouris, Islamic prayer halls, Islamic dress all will be affected....I mean it's just not right. The UK (and the Amerike) is for al and all....we need those grants and social security.
We get put in the back of the queue of jobs..because we need that extra 5 minutes for prayer here & there...instead of hurting us...learn from us...we have much to offer in the way of prayer and salutations...no one can pray quite like us.
Bhains poonch uthaygee to gana nahi gayege, gobar hee karege.
arjun.sevak
Could you translate what you just said? Unless it's something vulgar.
But the site also adds that “complete success in this world and the hereafter is only achieved in following the way of life shown by Muhammad and every other way leads to failure in this world and the hereafter”. Strict followers of the sect’s doctrine sleep on the ground and brush their teeth with a twig following the practices of Muhammad.
Well then, they should hurry back to the desert that "ole mo" lived in, and forsake all modern conveniences. No guns, no cars, no British or American homes....go back to mohammad's homeland.
"No one can pray quite like us".
Posted by: Naseem
Quite true, but usually on the weak, unsuspecting and mentally challenged.
The simple truth is, Jihad is actually the best thing that could have happened for the Infidel, we've had the wake up call and can see what Islam really is. Moderate Muslims? LOL! Mild Sharia, even louder LOL! La shokran.
Suggested Du'a (prayers):
Say: "O my Lord! let my entry be by the Gate of Truth and Honour, and likewise my exit by the Gate of Truth and Honour; and grant me from Thy Presence an authority to aid (me). And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."(Quran 17:80-81) ALLAH is sufficient for us ! Most Excellent is He in Whom we trust! (Quran3 :173) Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower. (Quran.2: 244)
"Our Lord! Bestow on us endurance, make our foothold sure, and give us help against the disbelieving folk. (Quran2 : 250) Our Lord! Forgive us for our sins and our transgressions, make our foothold sure, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk.(Quran3 :147) Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark! Our Lord! Lay not on us such a burden as Thou didst lay on those before us! Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk. (Quran 2:286) . . .
"Do Jihad against the disbelievers with your hands and tongues." for
Allah suffereth not the reward to be lost of those who do good.(At-Tauba.120)
Indeed, no one can pray like you Muslims.
wrathofasma,
If I may translate what arjun.sewak said. Its a hindi proverb which literally means - Cow raises it tail to do shit, not eat sugarcane.
I am sorry if its a bad translation, but I am sure Arjun.sewak can confirm it.
best
Anu
Again NASEEM we see you for what you are. You just can't resist a pedantic remark can you? It must be built in. Your hatred for non-muslims seeps out with every word, I wonder where you got that from?
Anu
I thought it translated as 'Cow raises its tail to shit, not sing'
Arjun can confirm - he was probably alluding to the sky-assward directions of Mohammedans while they practice their dua.
What does Red Ken have to say about this?
Namaste,
Thank you for that translation, Anu!
It is intersting to note the startling difference between Islamic "civilization" and Hindu civilization. Here in central Massachusetts where I live there are many people from India. There are also many fine Indian restaurants and I and several of my co-workers ( we are not of Indian ancestry ) have developed a taste for Indian cuisine. Every year, the India Society of Worcester throws a big party and everyone is invited. The last time I went there were several hundered people there, about half of them Indians and the other half non-Indians. There is always a lot of great food, traditonal Indian dance and music, and it is a pleasure to see the Indian ladies all dolled up in Shalwar-Kameezes and there are even a few Saaris in evidence. ( The Saari is unquestionably, one of the top three or four most elegant forms of dress ever invented for women!)
My knowledge of Hindi is, unfortunately, abysmally crude, but it is enough to puzzle out some of the conversations in the Indian movies ( which are for sale by the India Society. ) Lots of fun for everyone!
There is also a mosque in Worcester now. Music and dancing are not allowed, The women wear potato sacks over their heads, and us INFIDEL DOGS are not allowed in the mosque because we are UNCLEAN. I would guess they preach jihad there.
Bahut dhanyavad for the proverb, arjun.sewak!
Sheep al Naseem,
Here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016621.php
OT but NBC is doing a personal quick survey about what matters to Americans. It takes 45 seconds and hope y'all tell them. It's called GUTCHECK AMERICA
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18826755/
Let them build it. Then when a few, several Brits, Americans, Israelis get knocked off at the Olympics, it's time to take the gloves off.
Hi Infidel Pride,
as I said it was the literal translation of the words used, it probably tranlates to exactly what you said. Thanks for correcting me, not that I am going to use that proverb in public anytime soon (In private maybe...:-)).
One_of_the_last_few_Patriots_left
Namaskar!! thanks so much you appreciate the translation a little off the mark as it was.
I am so glad you enjoy Indian Music & cusine. It is so very ironical that that in India some of the best known classical musicians are Muslims and I know some of them personally. I was trained under one of them, but they still not only cling to their faith but try to make excuses for all the absurdities of their religion. They very well know that in a truly islamic regime they most likely will be termed as heretics or apostates. People who actually learn from them and listen and appreciate their talent are infidels and not their own community.
What a shame!!!
very best
Anu
While the UK government is concerned in case a mega-mosque might "raise tensions" in the community, the NZ government had no such qualms in this week hosting the Asia-Pacific Interfaith Dialogue as good dhimmis at the behest of the UN Alliance of Civilizations High-Level Group.
Trouble is, it seems to have seriously backfired, as a very large number of Christian Maoris, traditional supporters of Helen Clark's left Labour government, have protested. Their concerns centre on the government's effective denial that Christianity underpinned New Zealand institutions such as the political process, the judicial system and social arrangements. The protests also are concerned about its corollary, the influx of Muslims and the high-handed way in which the Human Rights Commission and the Race Relations Office will likely be used to enforce religious diversity.
The full story at
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442610&pnum=0
Special guest Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer has his own take on inter-faith dialogue with "coalitions of moderates".
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/author/story.cfm?a_id=135&objectid=10442607
Just commenting on MBR's post above, re. protests from Christian Maori in Aotearoa/ New Zealand. God bless them!!! What great news.
Just so everyone knows - these guys' ancestors were FEROCIOUS warriors. The Maori language includes a rich and comprehensive military vocabulary.
Google haka to find the Maori warrior dance (now mostly done for fun before football games to intimidate the opposing team).
Somebody please find out who these courageous and clear-headed Maori Christians are, and point them to Spencer's books - the 'PIG to Islam (and the Crusades)' would be a start. (Perhaps some of these un-PC Maori went to that 'Mosques and Miracles' conference that we were all discussing here a while ago - the one that the Muslims wanted to ban because the Christians would be criticising Islam's shortcomings and discussing how to evangelise Muslims). They need to know about the fully justified battles of self-defence - Tours/ Poitiers, Lepanto, Vienna - which saved Christendom in the past; if those battles had been lost, the gospel could never have come to NZ.
These Maori need to know that they are totally correct in identifying Islam and jihadists as a threat. They need to know it is OK - and NOT at all un-Christian, either - to think about how to repel Islam from their beautiful homeland by all suitable means, even up to and including military force if that becomes necessary. They need to know that even in Christendom there is a place - always has been a place - for the warrior saint; that their men may in future need all their ancestors' courage, smarts and warrior spirit, as well as their newfound fervent Christian faith, to preserve spiritual and political freedom in the Land of the Long White Cloud. Interesting, isn't it: that the non-white people whose ancestors converted to Christianity very recently [of their own free will, after encountering the Bible in Maori], are the ones putting up a fight against a white NZ govt's denial of the country's Christian foundations and its sell-out to Islam? I hope the foolish pakeha (white NZers) listen to the Maori on this one.
MoBlows
The desire for sharia mainly comes from Muslims who were born and brought up in the West. They have no experience, except as tourists when they are lionised, of what the true situation is like in pakistan etc.
"Following this, Islamic faith schools, Islamic abatouris [SIC], Islamic prayer halls, Islamic dress all will be affected....I mean it's just not right. The UK (and the Amerike) is for al and all....we need those grants and social security."
Meanwhile, whilst UK Muslims cry "racism" because they can't build a massive concrete domed monstrosity in the heart of London, in places like Indonesia, Christians can't even get planning permission to build a tiny chapel in Java, and in Saudi Arabia, if five or six Christians are even so much as caught praying together in a living room, they are imprisoned and deported. What can be said about such hypocrisy? THEY slaughter and abuse - and all is well, WE try to set a few sensible limits, and we are "islamophobic racists" - ahh well, such are the double standards of Islam/Muslims.
One_of_the_last_few_Patriots_left,
SO True mate!
Most Hindus & Sikhs really embrace the multiculturalist’s ideal; they make adaptations and try to fit in with the mainstream culture. Most try to make friends outside their community - which of course is prohibited in Islam.
For Muslims from the same part of the world, it's another story. The mainstream culture of the host nation is something they use, rebel against or at best, begrudgingly tolerate. For them, multiculturalism is just a stick to beat other people with - something they use to get everything and give nothing.
This "ghetto mentality" by itself would not be so bad, but alas it goes a lot further than that, they dream of domination ("...influence your hosts to convert to Islam...to become the majority and to introduce mild sharia") and resort to terrorism. Islam is truly a cancer, which needs to be removed from the body of the Western world.
Did the government do than criminal investateing on the 48000 people who sign the petitioned the government to see how many are hate criminal than declare the petitioned invalid. Mosque donot serice as fortress for Islam behind enemy line it is your Islamistphobia showing. One person got them self in touble for saying our mosque have secret rooms and guns hidden when the DA show up and look inside the builting and outside the builting hre left saying there is no way that there can be secret toom inside
the wall of the main prayer room as they are only 3 or 4 inches thick with glass windows covering 50% of the surface.
They probably planned for this and will come back with a more 'modest proposal' of a 6,000 person mosque.
Showing their tolerance, peacefulness, assimilation and community spirit.
I would say: no mosques in the West till a Church or Synagogue of Hindu Temple goes up in Mecca.
As a peaceful protest ...I would like to see the land converted to an Islamic graveyard....dead muslims staring out to the olympic stadium for me says it better than anything else could.
Posted by: Naseem at May 29, 2007 8:42 AM
Why would the city of London waste prime real estate on a muslim cemetery?! That would be almost as insane as permitting the construction of the proposed mega-temple of doom, although dead muslims are always preferable to live ones. The ideal scenario would be a total muslim-free zone.
Infidels are forced to live in segregated compounds in Saudi Arabia, where they are forbidden to practice their religions or to possess any religious texts or icons. Jews are not allowed into the country. Non-muslims are good enough to perform the tasks that keep the Kingdom of Slime and Perfidy running smoothly because the pious natives are too good to soil their hands doing honest work, but they're not good enough to live among their Saudi superiors. In other islamic countries like Egypt, Syria, and Yemen, non-muslims are second-class citizens, dhimmis. In every "islamic" hellhole, non-muslims are the indigenous people, their presence predating the advent of islam, yet their numbers have dwindled to a mere handful due islamic genocides, persecution, and tyranny.
Muslims in the West should be treated exactly like non-muslims are treated in islamic countries. That would curtail muslim immigration and put a screeching halt to the outrageous double standards and hypocrisy of the desolate islamic netherworld. But the multiculturalists are of the collective opinion that we should treat muslims like they are an endangered species, entitled to special treatment wherever they choose to pollute the world with their presence. Objections to this insanity elicit accusations of "racism" and "islamophobia", sometimes even ostracism and personal ruination.
Personally, I think it is time for the real "minority" to stand up and say "enough is enough", before the social engineers, politicians, and multiculturalists have redistributed the wealth of Western civilization and manipulated global demographics to the point of no return.
Actually the literal translation is -
"When (a) buffalo lifts her tail, don't expect a melody, she's going to crap."
Anu,
Bhains = Buffalo. Gau = Cow.
It is not a Hindi proverb. It is something that an actor (Shakti Kapoor) used to mutter in a movie I saw a long time back. I forget the name, but it was a comedy. It fits naseem like a glove. It is somewhat crass, but our naseem is completely so.
defenderofislam,
"Did the government do than criminal investateing on the 48000 people who sign the petitioned the government to see how many are hate criminal than declare the petitioned invalid."
So you want the government to investigate on 48000 people to check if they are hate criminals ? Read SusanP's post. You will get a lot of answers. I am going to translate this one and send it to newspapers here. Here's the link.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016659.php#c401110
...a crazed bearded finger pointing Islamic Clerics words are weapons of the mind.....the words fly and people die...
"Muslim setback" has a nice ring to it....
Assalamau Laikum Arjun,
hindoo nay teensow saal angraz ki jooti chaatian ....aadaat si pargi--tum loogon ko.
I have no idea what the translation could be, but it does not look complimentary...
Some additional information on this story. The local opposition to the mosque is based on two factors.
1) There's some suspicion about the Tablighi Jamaat, who own the site, and the extent to which they'll use the mosque to spread radical ideas. It's very difficult for locals to cut across the propaganda (from both extremes) in this debate and figure out what sort of people Tablighi Jamaat really are.
2) The size of the mosque. There is only one small road leading to the site. Both this, and the neighbouring train station are heavily congested on a Friday afternoon.
I'd just like to say to Naseem, that most locals I've met don't really mind the site being used as a mosque if the above points can be addressed.
And Granny Weatherwax is quite right. The old Three Mills pumping station is one of the hidden jewels of East London.
No it is certainly not complimantary and I don't think I want to start name calling. So I'll just say "Tsk tsk bhains" and move on.
i do not see how there can be meaningful security for the Olympic stadium if it is built.
it is too big, too close, and there are all those sniffer dog, infidel police, etc issues to deal with.
i suppose we could ask the Omanis to provide security inside the mosque for the duration of the games, but they would need to be armed and then there would be a load more issues to deal with...
really, the government just needs to say no, end of story.