"No to Sharia (Islamic law)", "Turkey is secular and will remain secular." It's ironic that the Turks protest in large numbers against Sharia, while in the West any criticism of Sharia is labeled "Islamophobia."
"Turkish protests continue," from Reuters, with thanks to JE:
Tens of thousands of Turks waving red national flags have gathered in the city of Samsun in the latest protest against the Islamist-rooted government ahead of a July election."No to Sharia (Islamic law)", "Turkey is secular and will remain secular", the crowd chanted in the main square.
The rally, the latest in a series of protests, was billed by organisers as a way of uniting the divided opposition against the government which they accuse of trying to undermine the secular state in overwhelmingly Muslim Turkey.
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's ruling AK Party, which denies any Islamist agenda, has called a national election ahead of schedule to resolve a conflict with the secularist elite over a presidential election.
The secular establishment, including the military, judges and opposition parties, derailed the government's plan to elect Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul as president, fearing he might weaken the official separation of religion and state.
“It's ironic that the Turks protest in large numbers against Sharia, while in the West any criticism of Sharia is labeled "Islamophobia."”
Mmmm….. I am sometimes tempted to write an essay arguing that the psychology of political-correctness and that of the suicide bomber is essentially the same.
Then again, why bother? Isn’t it blindingly obvious that that is true?
The next election will be a referendum on church and state. It could be a disaster for the oposition.
you note the difference of muslims living in a country such as Turkey who are in the majority muslims and sharia is very real, as compared to the "part time muslims born in the West such as Great Britain, who do not understand firsthand the cruelty of sharia and these 2nd generation muslims yearn for sharia. like communism what is taught cannot compare to the reality that both communism and islam/sharia are very cruel on those subjected to it.
Assalamau Laikum all,
These marches are to be expected. The fear of change away from our comfort zone is always there and promotes some resistance.
You can just think how peoples in the Byzantine Empire would have felt when they smell Islam outside their walls....and probably many of them did march...because their leaders told them to do so.
The important thing here is any marches did them no good in their objective...Byzantine was no more...it became Islamic as the fear of change was overcome and the local folk embraced Islam....saying.."actually Islam is not bad after all, it's our leaders ...those sick lot were telling us lies so that they could hold onto power..that's all".
I am think far beyond Turkey...it will be Islamic soon...there can be no doubt...more importantly ...when will you start marching ...in the Amerike and Eurabia.
The smart ones will adapt and quickly, don't worry about what your leaders lie to you about...get ahead of the game and convert (Ahmadi).
Sorry, Naseem.
The smart ones aren't about to jump off the cliff just because people like you are ready to push them off. You can live in the seventh century. That's your own business. I'm not about to time-travel with you.
You may be surprised when Americans start marching. We won't be marching for Islam.
"...You can just think how peoples in the Byzantine Empire would have felt when they smell Islam outside their walls....."
...they probably did smell something....
Oh boy. I should have known how easy it would be to get used to amputations for thievery, multiple wives, stoning or hanging for adultery, modesty police, stifled speech, forced conversion or permanent second-class status (but I'm being protected, right?).
How simple it would be to have to add faith into every political decision we make. How easy it would be to sell freedom-loving, rational Americans on the joys of Islam, led by imams whose academic and politcal strong points are simply to have found better and more devious ways of getting people to follow a soul-draining political and socio-economic "system".
How simple it would be to give up personal freedom for totalitarian thought.
Boy, that sure would be easier.
"You may be surprised when Americans start marching. We won't be marching for Islam."
Agree with you PMK, we'll be marching to raze the terror dens, aka mosques. Then we will see what the snooty slut of allah has to say about it. But I already know the answer, Inshallah! The prims are quit predictable.
I just had a stroke of genius (madness) to help us get the left thinking anti-sharia. Have GW propose we adopt sharia here in the U.S. This will prompt the dhimmicrats to actually look into what Sharia involves and go completly bonkers when they see the intolerance of women and homosexuals etc.
GW is a lame duck anyway, so no harm to blame him, and the left will be anti muslim like those of us on the right (probably even more so, especially if we can get Rumsfield and Blair to endorese the idea).
More support for the war, more support for Israels fight against the Palis, the French and British lefties will get on board and it will all be the fault of the Bush Admin (which gets the blame for everything else bad on the planet).
And even if the left doesn't want to condem the idea, the alternative of agreeing with GW would cause their heads to explode.
Whaddya think?
Naseems there is a big difference between Byzantine Empire where it was Christians only against muslims. now in Turkey it is muslims against muslims, a house divided will not stand long. islam will fail, but unfortunately not till many innocents will have died. give it up Naseems, people who want freedoms will not chose islam with any kind of sharia. soon before long you will be chased out of your furniture store as it has "Western style furniture" you will be reduced to selling rugs made by child labour.
"No to Sharia (Islamic law)", "Turkey is secular and will remain secular." It's ironic that the Turks protest in large numbers against Sharia, while in the West any criticism of Sharia is labeled "Islamophobia."
Yes, Robert, but doubtless there's a large chorus of true blue Muslims who would have the same to say about these anti-Sharia Turks as the young thugs who tried to intimidate Irshad Manji had to say... ...they aren't Arabs so what they think about Islam doesn't count for anything.
This is the first instance I'm aware of in which thousands of Muslims have taken to the street demanding NO Sharia. Almost always, of course, it's the opposite.
Truly a first!
Unless there's an incident that escapes me . . . ?
Robert, may we call this whole Turkish thing a first?
It might be worth looking to see what the Turks themselves *write* about these recent developments.
From the Turkish Daily News:
Most recently, six men described as Islamic militants were arrested in the United States on charges they plotted to attack New Jersey's Fort Dix army base and “kill as many soldiers as possible.” One of the men, a Turk, said: “It doesn't matter to me whether I get locked up, arrested or get taken away… or I die, it doesn't matter. I am doing it in the name of Allah.” Could that Turk belong to the secularist group Ms Berlinski views as anti-Zionist and anti-western? Which political party would he probably vote for in Turkey? CHP? Here are a few more questions: Was it the same anti-Zionist secularists who murdered the priest Trabzon, the judge in Ankara? Was it the secularists who bombed banks, synagogues and the British Consulate in Istanbul? Was it them who tortured and killed Christian converts in Malatya last month? Was Hrant Dink's murderer a secularist? Who arson attacked and killed 33 people in Sivas in 1993? How many people ... have been attacked in Turkey for not fasting during Ramadan? How many people, if any ... have been attacked for fasting during Ramadan? How many people ... have been attacked for drinking alcohol “in Muslim neighborhoods?” How many people, if any ... have been attacked in Turkey for NOT drinking alcohol? Do secularists kill in the name of secularism? ... Is there, anywhere in the world, a concept called as “secularist terror?” Is there a concept called as Islamic terror? Assuming these questions are given honest answers, what explains the difference in the answers?Of course, Mr Erdoğan and his men disapprove of violence in the name of Islam. But there would be a very thin line between violent Islam and “Muslim democracy” when the latter becomes the dominant ideology of an unstable, unpredictable and young populace.
Article at: http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=72920
To Matt A. Moros:
This is just the last and smallest of demonstrations that have been taking place in Turkey over the past few weeks.
The scale is remarkable, because the general Turkish attitude - whether secularist, religious or whatnot - is not to make a big deal of anything and definitely not to make a big fuss in public.
Interesting times to be living in Turkey.
And the U.S. Administration- and much of the leadership in Europe- wants this unstable mass to join the EU?
Let them- and all warring members of the Ummah- sort it out in their own "Islamic" lands, first, before we admit one more potential-jihadist Mohammedan into the infidel world.
I trust them only to bring division and chaos.
Because that is their "religious" nature.
Naseem,
You sure have alot of people to kill. Your vision for the world is sick and pointless.
Nazeem
Soon the taliban-style "real" muslims will take over pukistan and ahmadi heads will start to roll. You are infidels after all don't you remember? Are you even allowed entrance to mecca?
And just as you are mocking the genocide on the Byzantines, soon we will be able to celebrate that there are no ahmadis left.
apparently, the very high probability of the inevitable turn of the western (neo)oriental view of mild-islam to the so-called radical islam is now a considerable threat, thanks in part to EU and US. but why do people, even so-close as EU residents, think of Turkey's role as a mild-islamic government?
- Turkey had suffered a lot from the coalition based poorl government and all existing parties seem to have been tried at least once. So people were trying to find a way to punish all those existing parties.
- Then AKP rose and this party who won 34% of the valid-votes has taken over %66 of the parliament due to the very pseudo-democratic election system (the 10% barrier with a 1-tour election)
- Erdogan, with a brilliant policy (brilliant for himself and his base maybe), disguised as a EU groupie in international politics, whereas he and his small team of leaders (Gul, Arinc) were trying in fact to carry on their hidden agenda, building shariya step by step.
- One of the major reasons they couldn't act blatantly was that A.Necdet Sezer, the president who was elected by the previous government, vetoed most of the legislations proposed by this government.
- Were they able to elect a new president, they could have produced/changed enough legislations in the remaining few months of their government resulting in irraparable damage to the democratic and secular republic.
- So secular people who thought they became the minority after the latest elections, no-thanks to the national-power worshipping press, couldn't risk that and an estimated number of 500,000, 2,000,000, 2,000,000, 60,000 people marched in probably the four most non-violent protests of all times.
By the way, these estimated numbers raise up to 4,000,000, and some people may oppose to these stating the city population. Keep in mind, people around the whole country, as well as people from some of the neighbor ones attended these protests. And people were pouring in an out of the meeting square during the whole event.
And a google earth snap-shot of the second rally (the istanbul one which was estimated to host 4 million people) is here:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_mN5FfqInhwc/RjnpfehS1RI/AAAAAAAAABQ/dEHKp_8Knhw/s1600-h/BinDirilmisKitalar.jpg
Get back in your box Naseem.
Like I've said before: Why should we care if these turkish "nationalists-they're carrying the nationalist flag) believe in the justification of the armenian, greek and assyrian genocide?