No wonder the supporters of Turkish secularism are worried.
"Turkish PM Erdogan in Speech During Term As Istanbul Mayor Attacks Turkey’s Constitution, Describing it As ‘A Huge Lie’: 'Sovereignty Belongs Unconditionally and Always To Allah'; 'One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular,'" from MEMRI, with thanks to all who sent this in:
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan whose political origins are with the Milli Gorus -the radical and political Islamist movement founded by the former Islamist PM Erbakan - often attacked Turkey’s secular regime and its Constitution.A video clip of one of PM Erdogan’s speeches delivered during his term as Istanbul’s Mayor, (1994-1998) can be watched at youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg3hkWCnA8c
The following is the translated transcript of the speech:
PM Erdogan on Secularism:
"If the people want it, of course secularism will go away. You cannot rule this people by force; you don't have the power to do that. This [i.e. secularism] cannot work in spite of the people.
"And anyway, for the love of Allah, what is this secularism? You ask them to define it. They can't. They say that it varies from place to place. So what sort of a strange thing is this [secularism]?
"Today, for every concept there is a definition in the dictionary. Every concept must have a definition […] The interior minister comes and says that the state can interfere with religion. What about the rest? Why don't you say the rest? No! He does not say that the religion can interfere with the state.
"Yesterday I was at the Bosphorus University; and some of the - probably impressionable - young people there asked me, 'Mr. Mayor, what do you think about secularism? There are concerns that secularism is disappearing. What will happen?'
"This is what I said to those young friends: 'In the West they say, Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God's. But this country's interior minister says that Caesar has rights but God does not!'
"But the fact is that 99% of the people of this country are Muslims. You cannot be both secular and a Muslim! You will either be a Muslim, or secular! When both are together, they create reverse magnetism [i.e. they repel one another]. For them to exist together is not a possibility! Therefore, it is not possible for a person who says 'I am a Muslim' to go on and say 'I am secular too.' And why is that? Because Allah, the creator of the Muslim, has absolute power and rule!"
Read it all.
Related to this is the Jihad Watch videoblog discussion of Turkish secularism and Islamic moderation at Hot Air, with a fuller essay here.
Pretty desperate.
Erdogan and his Islamo-fascist crew don't like the resistance and the demonstrations.
This is no more than blackmail and intimidation. We'll see where it takes them...
WATCH TURKEY VERY CLOSE!!!
IMHO, they are THE key for all hell to break loose in Europe. 80 milion of them, second strongest army in NATO, horrific history of jihad...
I can't say what to do with them, EU tried to play them with carrots in form of prospects to join EU, but it drags for over 40 years, and they are becoming restless. To argue weather the alliance with Turkey was a cold war mistake or right move is futile now. They have made some progress in secularisation, but that is small minority, milion secular protestors are but a drop in islamistic sea of Anadolia which still remembers Ottoman Empire.
The best move is to send clear message that any radicalization in their positions will lead to severe consequences. And than to wait and watch their behaviour with tumb on the button.
THANKS for posting this, Robert. JW/DW is a great clearinghouse for all of these issues one's aware of peripherally, but don't have the time/resources to follow-up on constantly.
I knew Erdogan was a ne'er-do-well, but that was just a hunch. Now I'm SURE of it.
Erdogan does not seem to grasp the simple distinction between a citizen having a religion and the state having a religion. Of course, a muslim can not be secular, but he gives no reason why the state can't be. Even a child can understand this not so subtle difference.
But ultimately, this is good for Europe and the world. If secularism goes down the drain in Turkey, we should cheer. With all the opposition already, surely this would be the final nail in the coffin of Turkey's ambition to gain entrance into the European union.
One can use their favorite adjective (political, moderate, cultural, secular, peaceful) in an attempt to change the atomic 'muslim,' but this is sheer folly. Religious people know this; others never will.
Believe them when they say "This is holy war."
It is deeply troubling that Turkey's secular spirit is under attack by Islamists in Turkey. No surprise here. I knew that this was occurring ever since PM Erdogan took power in Turkey. He is an Islamist.
Pay attention to the big picture. Life in all of Europe will be far worse if Turkey is admitted into the European Union. Waves and waves of Muslims will legally take citizenship in the countries of Europe.
If Turkey is allowed into the European Union, then you can forget about assimiliation and secularization in Europe.
The Edomites have always been a manly, warlike people who have followed after the gods of mayhem and war in their intermarriages of with the various solar god worshipping peoples of the Middle East.
Erdogan can claim all his Muslim glory for himself, but Iran has proven to have only puppet Ahmadinejad dance only so far as the Supreme Council allows.
The Israelite nation of the 13 tribes had pure God rule and decided they wanted a king just like all the other nations and God punished them severely for that sin.
Turkey can moon god all it desires, but the Turks will face the same God all nations will. They are a traditional people of upheaval and murder and this will bite them again soon as the "calls for a Muslim Turkey" are coming from Islamocommunist agents getting funds right out of Moscow.
Russia will fragment Turkey in it's now implementing plan by Putin. Turkey will be laid waste in an invasion route into the Balkans.
None of this Islam situation is just happening. There were governments and banking cartels behind it so they could use it to seize power. The Europeans were supposed to be content with the money laundering but will soon be demanding military power and Russia to take the back seat...which Russia will not do.
Everyone over there is stirring this pot and Islamists are being led to their destruction like fools. War is coming and entire peoples will be disappearing and not just cities. It has started and will not stop until the real King of Peace returns as predicted by the real Prophets in the Bible (Tenakh).
Right.
So why dont secular Turks denounce Islam and say that they are leaving? Seems sensible to me.
Again Lame Cherry has an elementary mathematics problem. 13 is not equal to 12. Close doesn't count. There are 12 tribes in Israel, not 13. How many stones were there in the breastplate of the Israelite High Priest? 12! One for each tribe. Get a clue!